The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

Of Burialls and matters therevnto apperteyning.

Chap. 6. the. 1. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 160. Sect. vlt.

Least M. Doctor (as his common fashion is when the corruption of any thing is spoken a∣gainst)* 1.1 say, that we condemne buriall, I would haue him vnderstand that we hold that the body must be honestly and comely buried, and that it is meete that for that cause some reasonable number of those which be the friends and neighbours about should accompany the corps to the place of bu∣riall: we hold it also lawfull to lament the dead, and if the dignitie of the person so require, we thinke it not vnlawfull to vse some way about the buriall whereby that may appeare, but yet so that there be a measure kept both in the weeping, & in the charges, considering that where as immoderate ey∣ther weeping or pompe was neuer, no not in the time of the law allowed, now in the time of the gos∣pell, all that is not lawfull, whiche was permitted in the time of the law. For vnto the people of God vnder the law, weeping was by so much more, permitted vnto them, than vnto vs, by how muche they had not so cleare a reuelation and playne sight of the resurrection as we haue, whiche was the cause also why it was lawful for them to vse more cost in the embaulming of the dead, ther∣by to nourish and to help their hope touching the resurrection, whereof we haue a greater pledge by the resurrection of our sauioure Christ than they had.

Io. Whitgifte.

Al this is néedelesse: but that you are disposed to stretch out your volume.

Chap. 6. the. 2. Diuision.

Admonition.

The eleuenth. They appoint a prescrip kind of serui〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e to bury the dead: and that whiche is the duty of euery christian, they tie alo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e to the mini〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ter, whereby 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rayer for the dead is maintay∣ned, and partly gathered out of some of the prayers, where they pray that we with this our bro∣ther, and all other departed in the true faythe of thy holy name, may haue our perfect consummati∣on and blisse, both in body and soule. We say nothing of the threefould peale, bycause that it is ra∣ther licensed by iniunction, than commaunded in the booke, nor of their straunge mourning, by chan∣ging their garments, which if it be not hypocraticall, yet it is superstitious and heatcrush, bycause it is vsed only of custome: nor of buriall Sermons, whiche are put in pl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ce of 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rentalls whereout spring many abuses, and therefore in the best reformed Churches are remoued. As for the super∣stitions vsed both in countrey and citie, for the place of buriall, which way they must lie, how they mu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t be fecched to Church the Minister meeting them at Church st〈1 line〉〈1 line〉le with surplesse, with a com∣pany of greedy Clearks, that a Crosse white or blacke must be set vpon the dead corps, that breade must be giuen to the poore, and offrings in buriall time vsed, and cakes sent abroade to friends, by∣cause these are rather vsed of custome and superstition than by the authoritie of the booke. Small commaundement will serue for the accomplishing of such things. But greate charge will hardly bring the least good thing to passe, and therefore all is let alone, and the people as blind and as ig∣norant, as euer they were. God be mercifull vnto vs.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 198. Sect. 1.

It is true that we haue a prescript kind of seruice to bury the dead, and that we appointe that office to the minister, and what haue you in the whole scripture, against this? or whoeuer hath found fault with either of these two things (I meane prescript seruice to bury the dead, and the minister to execute that office) but you alone? or when was it euer heretofore repro∣ued by any, but euen by yourselues now of late?

T. C. Pag. 161. Lin. 5.

Nowe for the things which the Admoni〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ion fyndeth fault with, and thereof 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ingeth reason, M. Doc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er of his bare creditē, without any reason or sc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ipture, or 〈◊〉〈◊〉 thing else, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 them vnto 〈◊〉〈◊〉, and sayth they be good. And this you shall marke to be M. Doctors simple shift through out his 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ooke, that when he hath no coloure of scripture, nor of reason, no name nor title of Doc∣tor, then r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 make 〈◊〉〈◊〉 some thing▪ he v〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rieth his affirmation by all the figures he c〈1 line〉〈1 line〉n, as in saying 〈◊〉〈◊〉 that it is so and then in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 whether it be not so, and after in asking whether there 〈◊〉〈◊〉 any 〈◊〉〈◊〉 man will thi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ke 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉hat it is not so, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s if he woulde make vs beleeue, that he setteth vs diuers 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of mea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉es, bycause he bringeth the same in diuers dishes. For besides these reasons, he hathe no reason, either to pro〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e that it is meete to haue prescript forme of seruice for the dead, or that the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 should be drawen to this charge. Surely if the order be so good and conuenien〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, it hathe met with a very barren 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉trone, whiche can saye nothing for it. And although there be enough sayd by the Admonition, yet bycause this bold and hardy 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉peach is 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nough to leade the simpler a∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y, and to make them thinke that M. Doctor hath a good cause, therefore I will also say so〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣thing of these rites of bur〈1 line〉〈1 line〉all.

Io. Whitgifte.

What one reason is there vsed in the Admonition? what one word of scripture? what authoriti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 of writer? to improue a prescripte kinde of seruice to bury the dead, and the minister to execute that office. If there be any rehearse it: if there be none why do you kéepe your old cu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ome of speaking vntruly? for as much therefore as they only say* 1.2 it withoute proofe, withoute reason, without gr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉unde, the thing being knowen so be good and godly, and pra〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tised in the primitiue Church (for we reade in Tertullian, that the dead were wont to be buried by the ministers, and with prayer) and furthermore sée∣ing it is established, and allowed by the Church, what shoulde I laboure by reason or authoritie to confirme that, whiche, cannot by any reason or authoritie be ouerthro∣wen.* 1.3 Wheresore I will only answer such bare assertions, as M. Zuinglius answered* 1.4 (vpon the like occasiō) one Balthasar an Anabaptist. VVhilest you require scripture and reason, you obtrude vnto other that whiche you oughte to performe your selues, for you denie that this ought to be so, shew therefore some expresse testimonie out of the scripture, to confirme your opinion. To this effect spea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eth Zuinglius to Balthasar, who (without reason or scripture, alleadged to the contrary) required of Zuinglius the proofe of those thinges whiche without controle〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ent of any (but Heretikes) had continued in the Churche of long time, and then also allowed in the time of the Gospell: Euen so the receiued order established by this Church, carieth with it authoritie and credite sufficient, and néedeth not to be further by reason confirmed, except it be first by rea∣son ouerthrowen, which bycause it is not per〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ourmed by the Admonition, my affir∣mation is sufficient reason, against their deniall.

If this be M. Doctors simple shift throughout his booke, I trust M. Doctor that would〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 haue bin, hath not omitted to note it, where he may finde it, seing his eye sight is so sharpe, that he can imagine himselfe to espie it, where no man else can find it. But let words go.

Chap. 6. the. 3. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 198. Sect. 2.

You say that thereby prayer for the dead is mainteyned, as may partly be gathered out of some of the prayers, where we pray that we with this our brother, and other departed in the true faith of thy holy name▪ &c. You know full well what out doctrine* 1.5 is concerning prayer for the dead, and you ought not thus boldly to vtter a manifest vntruth, for in so doing you do but be wray your sini∣ster affection How proue you that a prescripte forme of seruice for burying the dead, and the minister only to bury them, doth mainteine prayer for the dead▪ when you haue shewed your reason, you shall hea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e my answer.

In saying that these words gathered out of some of the prayers,* 1.6 that we with this our brother. &c. import prayer for the dead, you do but quarrell:* 1.7 when we say that we with Abraham, Isaac and Iacob may reygne in thy kingdome, do we pray for Abraham, Isaac, and Iacob, or 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉a∣ther wish ourselues to be where they are?

In the like manner when we say, that we with this our brother, and all other departed in the true faith of thy holy name, may haue our perfect consummation, & blisse both in body and soule, we pray not for our brother, and other that be de∣parted in the true faith, but we pray for ourselues, that we may haue our perfect consummation and blisse, as we are sure those shall haue which die in the true fayth.

Now weigh this reason, there is a prescript forme of burying the dead, and it is madea portion of the ministers office, ther〈1 line〉〈1 line〉fore you will not subscribe to the communion booke.

T. C. Pag. 161. Sect. 1.

And first o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 all as this almost is a generall fault in them all, that they mainteine in the myndes of the ignorant the opinion of praying for the dead: so is this also another generall faulte, that these ceremonies are taken vp without any example eyther of the churches vnder the law, or of the pu∣rest churches vnder the Gospell, that is of the churches in the Apostles tymes. For when the Scripture describeth the ceremonies or rites of buriall amongst the people of God so diligently, that it maketh mention of the smallest things, there is no doubt but the holy Ghost doth thereby shew vs a patterne, wherevnto we should also frame our burialls. And therefore for so muche as neyther the Church vnder the law nor vnder the Gospell, when it was in the greatest puritie, did euer vse any prescript forme of seruice in the buriall of their dead, it could not be but daungerous, to take vp any such custome, and in the time of the law it was not only not vsed, but vtterly for for bid∣den:* 1.8 for when the law did forbid that the priest should not be at the buriall, whiche ought to saye or conceiue the prayers there, it is cleare that the Iewes might n〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t haue any suche prescripte forme, and yet they had most neede of it, for the causes of obscure knowledge, and weaker fayth before al∣leadged. Agayne by this meanes a new charge is layd vpon the minister, and a taking him away from his necessary duties of feeding & gouerning the flocke, which being so greate as a maruellous dilig〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nce will scarsely ouercome, ought not to be made greater by this, being a thing so vnnecessa∣ry. The Admonition dothe not say that the prayers whiche are sayd are for the dead, but that they mainteyne an opinion of prayer for the dead in the heartes of the simple, and that they declare ma∣manifestly enough, when they say that it may be partly gathered. &c.

Io. Whitgifte.

Your first reason to proue that there ought to be no prescripte forme of seruice to bury the* 1.9 dead, and that the minister ought n〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t to execute that office, is this: It mainteyneth in the mindes of the ignorant, an opinion of praying for the dead, therefore there ought to be no prescripte forme of seruice to bury the dead, neyther must the minister execute that office. Un∣doubtedly this is a very ignorant argument, if a man denie your antecedent, howe will you proue it? do you thinke the people (whome you do so greatly in other places extoll) to be so rude, that they vnderstand not the English tongue? Are they not able to discerne what it is to pray for the dead? Surely I do not thinke any to be so sim∣ple, that hearing the manner and forme of burying our dead, can or will imagine that we pray for the dead. And I verily beléeue that the ignorantest person in a whole countrey, will deride the babishnesse of the argument. The prescripte forme that is now vsed and the minister pronouncing the same, wi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ather perswade them to the contrary, for where as in times past, the minister vsed to say masse and dirige for the soules of the dead, and sundry times moue standers by to pray for the dead, at the time of buriall: now doth he reade most wholesome scriptures, declaring the my∣serie of the life of man, the shortnesse of his dayes, the happinesse of those that dye in the Lorde, and the certeintie of the resurrection. And who can hereof gather any prayer for the dead?

Your second reason is this, these ceremonies (that is a prescript forme of burying the dead. &c) are taken vp without any example eyther of the Churches vnder the law, or of the chur∣ches in the Apostles time. &c. therefore there may be no prescripte forme of seruice for burying the dead, and the minister may not make it a péece of his office to bury them. I denie this argument: for it is negatiue from authoritie, bycause you haue neyther warrant to say that there was no such order in the Apostles time, neither if you had any such warrant, doth it follow that it may not be so in our time, séeing that in ce∣remonies and diuers other orders and externall thinges, we are not bounde to the forme and manner of the Apostolicall Church. And yet if I should say that in the A∣postles time, the minister vsed to bury the dead, and ground my reason vpō the place of S. Augustine before alleadged, quod vniuersa tenet ecclesia. &c. I know not what you would be able by any reason to say to the contrary.

Another argument you conclude thus: It was forbidden in the lawe that the prieste should be at the buriall of the dead, therefore the Iewes had no suche prescript forme. Be* 1.10 it so: but will you driue vs to conforme our selues to the Iewes ceremonies? do you thinke that touching the dead, or being at burialls will now make the minister vn∣cleane? I vnderstand not to what end you should alleadge any such proofes, vnlesse you would haue vs to retourne againe to Iudaisme. This kind of reasoning from the ceremoniall law is not only of no force, but also very dangerous, as though Christi∣ans were bound to behaue themselues according to that law. Surely it should séeme that you could rather consent to the bringing in of Iudaisme, than to the Christian orders now appointed in the Church. There might be and so there was a prescripte forme of burying the dead among the Iewes, although the Priest was absent: ther∣fore, if this kinde of reasoning from the examples of the Iewes were of any force, yet cannot this your argument proue that there ought to be no prescripte forme to bury the dead.

In the fourth place you reason thus: A new charge may not belayd vpon the minister, nor* 1.11 he maye not be taken from his necessary duties of feeding and gouerning his flocke. &c. but by burying the dead, a new charge is layd vpon him, and he is taken from his necessa∣ry duties. &c. therefore the minister may not bury the dead. Your Minor is false, for it is no new charge, laide vpon him: is it not his duty to reade the scriptures, to gyue thanks, to pray and to exhort in the publike congregation? doth he not féede, when he so doth? nay when is there a more apt time of féeding? will you giue him time to be* 1.12 absent from his flocke vpon his owne businesse, as before you haue done, and shal he haue no time to bury their dead? Surely I cannot conceiue how this function of bu∣rying the dead, should one iote hinder the minister f〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ō any one part of his dutie. And I thinke these reasons of yours too weake to allure any man into your opinion, or to plucke downe any thing that is already builded. If you séeke for alteration, you must vse pro〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ound and inuincible proofes, for no wise man will be moued to a change, without vrgent and especiall cause. I passe ouer this and such like matters the more lightly, bycause I take the lightnesse of your arguments to be such, as of themselues they be a sufficient discredite to your cause, and adde (with such a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 be learned, and not led by affection) a greater strength and confirmation both to the doctrine, and also to the gouernment of this Church of England.

Chap. 6. the. 4. Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition. Page. 199. Sect. 4.

The threefolde peale, mourning apparell, buriall sermons, the place of buriall, which way they must lye, how they must be fetched to the Church, a crosse white or blacke set vpon the dead corps, bread giuen to the poore, offerings in buriall time vsed, cakes sent abroade to friends, you confesse not to be conteined within the booke, and so you ease me of some laboure. But yet of mourning apparell, and auriall* 1.13 sermons, giue me leaue to speake a little. It is no good reason to say,

that bycause mourning apparell is only vsed of custome, therefore it is superstitious and heathenishe: many thinges be vsed of custome wh〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ch be neyther superstitious nor heathenish, as to receiue the com∣munion before dinner, to celebrate the Lords day on the Sunday, not on the Saterday, to preach in pulpits, and such like. Mourning* 1.14 apparell is of greate antiquitie (as you knowe) and I thinke it is no matter of religion, but of ciuilitie and order. If any man put religion in it, then no doubt it is superstitious.

T. C. Pag. 161. Sect. 2.

For the mourning apparell, the Admonition (*) 1.15 sayth not simply it is euill, bycause it is done of custome, but proueth that it is hypocriticall oftentimes, for that it proceedeth not from any sad∣nesse of mind, whiche it dothe pretende, but worne only of 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ustome there being vnder a mourning gowne, oftentimes a merry hart. And considering that where there is sorrow indeede for the dead, there it is very hard for a man to keepe a measure, that he do not lament too much: we ought not to vse these meanes whereby we might be further prouoked to sorrow, and so go a great way be∣yond the measure, which the Apostle appointeth in mourning, no more than it was well done of the Iewes in the Gospell to prouoke weeping and sorrow for their dead, by some dolefull noyse, or* 1.16 sound of instrument, or then it was lawfull for Mary Lazarus sister, to go to hir brothers graue, thereby to set the pri〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t of hir sorrow deeper in hir mind. Seing therefore if there be no sorrow it is hypocriticall to pretend it, and i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 there be▪ it is very dangerous to prouoke it, or to carry the notes of remembrance of it, it appeareth that this vse of mourning apparell were much better layd away than kept. And here M. Doctor th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eapes alittle kindnesse of the authours of the Admonition, and* 1.17 saith that they know it is very anncient, whome before he denyeth to haue any knowledge of an∣tiquitie. Indeede it is very auncient, but M. Doctor is afrayd to shew the a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ciencie of it, for Cy∣prian, and Augustine, inueigh vnhemently against it, condemning it as vnlawfull and vndecent.

Io. Whitgifte.

The words of the Admonitiō be these. Nor of their strange mourning by changing their garments (which if it be not hypocriticall) yet is it superstitious and heathenish, bycause it is vsed only of custome. Let the Reader now iudge, whether the Admonition dothe conclude this apparell to be heathenish and superstitious, only bycause it is vsed of custome or no. Truly in my simple iudgement their words be playner, than that they can be excused.

Your reason of Hypocrisie is no more sufficient, to condemne mourning apparell, than it is to condemne any other ciuill and decent o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉der. By the like reason I might improue your wearing of a turky gowne and a hat, bycause that kind of apparel be∣ing a token of such persons, as mislike the gowne and the square cap, and pretende precisenesse aboue the rest, is notwithstanding commonly worne of such as in other places than in London, both weare and like the other, and be precise neither in lyfe nor doctrine. And what is it that I 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉annot disproue, if this be a sufficient argument to say some mē do abuse it, or some men do hypocritically vse it, Ergo it is not to be vsed.

Your other reason, that it prouoketh more seruice for the dead than is conuenient, if it were true that it so did (as you are not able to proue that it is) yet muste it receiue the same answer, with the former argumente, being of the same nature: vnlesse you will say, that we must not come néere vnto our 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉riendes graue, or place where he is buried, we must not weare any of his apparell, come in or neare the place where he dyed, beholde any thing that may put vs in mynde of hym, with an infinite suche like thinges, bycause all these moue affections in a kynde harte, and prouoke it to wéeping. But i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 is the affection of the mynde that is to be moderated and brideled, and not the lawfull vse of decent and ciuill orders to be condemnad▪ For if we

admit such causes and excuses, I sée not how any orders, eyther ecclesiasticall or cy∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ill, especially in indifferent things, can be mainteined. If any man weare such ap∣parell* 1.18 of purpose to prouoke sorrow, he is not to be excused: if for order and ciuilitie, he is to be commended. And surely I sée not why the wearing of mourning appa∣rell should not be profitable to put a man in minde of his owne mortalitie, seeing it carieth a remembrance of death with it, and I thinke it rather woorketh this effecte in the wearer, than the other that you speake of.

The antiquitie of this apparell appeareth in this, that (by your owne confession) it was in Cyprians time, as it appeareth in that 4. ser. demortalitate, where he dothe not so much speake against the mourning apparell, as he dothe againste mourning immoderatly: and surely if the thing had bin so greatly to be misliked, it shoulde not still haue had continuance in the Church as it had, for Augustine likewise speaketh of it serm. 2. de consolat. mort. to the same effect that Cyprian doth. But there is no suche immoderate mourning for the dead in these dayes, the contrary rather appeareth.

Chap. 6. the. 5. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 200. Sect. 1. 2.

But wherein haue funerall sermons offended you? or with what* 1.19 face of brasse dare you liken them to trentalls? what similitude is there betwixt a godly sermon and the wicked Masse? In what one* 1.20 poynt are they like? or how dare you condemne such sermons, being then most necessary and most profitable? what? is there a more fitte time to entreate of the mortalitie of man, and shortnesse of his days, of the vanitie of this worlde, of the vncertaintie of 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉iches, of the re∣surrection, of the iudgemente to come, of eternall life, and of euerla∣sting deathe, and of infinite other most necessary poyntes, than that wherin we haue a present example before our eyes? when is ther a more meete time to beate downe trentalls, sacrificing for the dead, prayers for the dead, Purga〈1 line〉〈1 line〉orie, and suche like, than that wherein they were accustomed to be most vsed? Su〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ely there is as much dif∣ference* 1.21 betwixt our funerall sermons, and the papisticall masses and trentalls, as there is betwixt cold and hote, blacke and white, light and darknesse, truth, and lies, Heauen and Hell. But belike there is some other priuate cause, that maketh you to reiecte funerall ser∣mons.

You saye that in the best refourmed churches they are remoued: I* 1.22 thinke you saye not truly (and I am sure that M. Caluine dothe very well like and allow of them, as appeareth in the forme of common prayers vsed of the English Church in Geneua, & by him allowed.) But if it be so, I tell you plainly, for my parte I like not that refor∣mation, excepte there be weightier reasons than eyther you vse, or I can perceiue. I am sure that in auncient churches of long time they haue bin vsed, and the same you may see in the moste aunciente and best learned fathers.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 1.

Now touching the funerall sermons, M. Doctor taketh on, and triumpheth maruellously, as though he had already gotten y^e victory, but he that girdeth his harnesse, should not boast as he that putteth it of. Ther is more matter, than peraduenture M. Doctor is aware of, and that which is set downe he answereth not, as that it nourisheth an opinion that y^e dead are the better for it, which doth appeare in that ther are none more desirous of funeral sermōs than y^e Papists, which although they cannot abide the doctrine whiche is preached, yet they will haue suche sermons, and those which will very seldome, or not at all, be at other sermons, will not commonly misse one of these.

Furthermore for so much as the minister is driuē oftentimes by this meanes to preach vpō a sud∣deyne, the worde of God thereby is negligently handled, especially of those whose giftes are not so gre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t, as that they can prouide in so sma〈1 line〉〈1 line〉l time, and by this negligent handling of the worde of God, it is brought into contempte.

Io. Whitgifte.

Surely M. Doctor may well triumphe, that so good a cause hath no stronger aduer∣saries.* 1.23 Your argumentes are too too slender, and in déede very friuolous: The first is this, that they nourishe an opinion that the dead are better for them, of the which argumente, bicause you are ashamed your selfe, you father it vpon the Admonition, wherin there is not one worde spoken of any such reason. But why doth a funerall sermon nourish that opiniō? forsooth, bicause the Papistes be most desirous of them. First, it is very strange to say that sermons nourishe an opinion y^t the dead are the better for them, when it is well knowen that both he that preacheth, thinketh otherwise, & the ende of preaching is to roote out of mens heartes such persuasions, which kinde of sermōs be most mete at that time to be vsed, when such especial occasiōs be offered. Secōdly, it is as strange to thinke that Papistes should for any such cause desire them, who are persuaded the doctrine that is taught to be flat heresie, and the preacher to be none of the church: and surely it is a strange fansie that can imagine a Papiste to thinke that sermon to helpe the dead, which condemneth prayer for the dead, Purgatorie, Masses, Diriges, Me∣rites, and such like Popish trashe, wherein the Papistes place all their hope of helpe for the dead. Wherfore if Papistes be so desirous of these sermons (which I can not beleue) and in many of them it is indéede vntrue, it is rather to auoyde the suspition of Papistrie, than to procure any helpe to the dead.

The seconde argument you will haue this, The minister is driuen by this meanes to* 1.24 preache of a suddeyne, and thereby the worde of God is negligently handled. &c. and is this so good a reason? Do you remember what you answered before, for the defense of prea∣ching twyse in a daye? you sayde it was a very simple Sermon that had not some good∣nesse* 1.25 and edyfying, and very slender meate, whiche is not better beyng gyuen euerye daye, than the best and deyntyest meate once onelye in a month. &c. And howe can hée bée taken so vn∣prouided, that is able to preach so often? or why should the woorde of God be more negligently handled by a minister preaching a funerall sermon vpon suddeyne war∣ning, than by the same minister preaching two sermons euery daye? your memory waxeth feble towardes the ende of your booke, else would you not haue so reasoned a∣gainst your selfe. But why may not he that preacheth a funerall sermon haue suffi∣cient warning? or if he haue not, why may he not refuse to preache it? There is no order or lawe that doth of necessitie binde him vnto it.

Chap. 6. the. 6. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 2.

Moreouer, considering that these funerall sermons are at the request of ryche men, and those which are in authoritie, and are very seldome at the buriall of the poore, there is brought into the church (contrary to the worde of God) an acceptation of persones, which ought not to bee. For al∣though the minister may giue to one more honour than to an other, according as the calling or de∣gree requireth, yet in his ministerie, and that which perteyueth vnto his office, he ought to shew him selfe indifferent, and therefore preache as well at the death of the poore, as of the ryche, and bicause he cannot well do both, it is moste conuenient to leaue both.

Io. Whitgifte.

This is your thirde reason, but it toucheth only the persone, and not the cause, for it reproueth the minister for not preaching as well at the buriall of the poore as of the ryche: which if it be a faulte it is the fault of the man, not of the thing: and therfore

〈1 page duplicate〉〈1 page duplicate〉

〈1 page duplicate〉〈1 page duplicate〉

no good reason to condemne funerall sermons. But you saye, he can not do both, and ther∣fore it is moste conuenient that he leaue both: shall he at no tyme do good, bicause he can not do it at all tymes? bicause he is not able to preache euery daye, shall he not therefore preache once in the wéeke? or if he be not able to preache once in the wéeke, shall hée not therefore (being able) preache once in a fortnight? what kinde of reasoning call you this? And yet if your reason for preaching twyse a day before mentioned, be good and allowable, I knowe not why y^e minister may not be able to preach at the burial, as well of the poore as of the ryche, and yet there may be sometymes more occasion, to preache at the buriall of the ryche, than at the buriall of the poore: neither is this that acceptatiō of persons, which is in scripture prohibited: for there be degrées of persons and seuerall dignities. Howbeit, funeral sermons be rather in the respect of the liuing than of the dead.

Chap. 6. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 2.

If so be that M. Doctor will saye, that it is good that notable and famous men, should haue their commendation, to the ende that both the goodnes of God towardes them, might be the better knowen, and others the sooner drawen to followe their example, I graunt it is so, and the scripture doth both approue it, and sheweth what meane is best to do that by. For so we reade that Ieremy* 1.26 the Prophete commēded that godly and zealous Prince Iosias in writing verses of his death. He could haue as easely preached, but this he thought the best waye. So did also Dauid wryte verses at the death of Saule, and Ionathan, and Abner, in which he commendeth their giftes and graces which the Lord had bestowed vpon them. There were in deede of auncient tyme funerall orations, as appeareth in Gregorie Nazianzene, but they sauoured of the manner of Athens, where he was brought by: where also this custome of funerall orations was vsed, as may be seene in the seconde booke of Thucidides story by an oration of Pericles. And although this custome was not in Nazian∣zens time so corrupte as afterwardes: yet the departing from the examples of the purer churches, gaue occasion of further corruption which ensued. And to say the truthe, it was better vsed amongst the Athenians, than amongst the Christians. For there it was merely ciuill, and the oration at the death of some notable personage, made not by a minister, but by an orator appointed therfore: which I thinke may well be done.

Io. Whitgifte.

Ieremie lamented Iosias death, and writte verses vpon it, Dauid also writte verses at the death of Saule, there were funerall orations in Nazianzens time, and it is lawefull to haue orations at the death of noble personages. &c. therefore there may be no funerall sermons: this argu∣ment hath neither necessary nor probable conclusion, for they may both bée vsed, and be so commonly at the buriall of notable personages. M. Foxe reporting the vse of the* 1.27 Primitiue churche in this matter, sayth thus. In funeralles priestes then flocked not to∣gether, selling Trentalles, and Diriges, for sweping of purgatorie, but onely a funerall con∣cion was vsed, with Psalmes of praises and songs of their worthy deedes: and alleluia soun∣ding* 1.28 on highe, which did shake the golden seelings of the temple, as witnesseth Nazianzene, Ambrose, and Ierome. &c.

Chap. 6. the. 8. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 2.

And if M. Doctor will saye that there might be sermons although they be not mentioned neither in the olde Testament nor in the newe, I haue answered before, that seeing the holy Ghost doth de∣scribe so diligently the least circumstances of buriall, he would not haue omitted that being the grea∣test. And let it be obserued, that this deuise of mans brayne, bringeth foorth the same fruite that o∣ther do, that is, dryueth quite awaye a necessary dutie of the minister, which is to comforte with the worde of God, the parties which be greeued at the death of their friendes, that considering the sore is particular, he applye vnto it a particular playster, which is very seldome or neuer doone, and yet a necessary dutie, as of a good Christian, so especially of the minister, whiche can best doe it, and to whome it moste apperteyneth.

Io. Whitgifte.

No, I saye not only that, which you do not sufficiently improue, but this also, that if there were none such then, yet may there be nowe, being a matter perteyning to edi∣fying, and to the preaching of the Gospell of Christe. And you can no more proue by this argument, that there ought to be no funerall sermons, than you can proue that there ought to be no women at the receiuing of the communion, or no baptisme mini∣nistred in churches, with diuers such like things, wherof there is no expresse mention that they were in the Apostles time.

An other of your weighty argumēts is this. The minister ought to cōfort with the woorde of God, the parties that be greeued at y^e death of their friendes, therefore he may not preache a funerall sermon. I must stil deny your argument, being to too simple. For may he not do both if nede require? may he not before his sermon, in his sermon, & after his ser∣mon* 1.29 comforte the parties greeued? That is one good vse of funerall sermōs, especial∣ly when ther are a number so gréeued, whom he can not so well particularly cōforte, bicause of the number, as he may ioyntly, in a godlye & fruitfull sermon: and I haue not heard or red, but that God worketh as effectually in the heartes of the hearers, by publike sermons, as he doth by priuate exhortations, & that euen in matters of salua∣tion, & therfore much more in matters of lesser importance. But as I saide before, this preaching at the buriall, doth nothing hinder this priuate exhortation, if he be so dispo∣sed: and therfore of all other your argumentes, this is one of the worste.

Chap. 6. the. 9. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. Sect. 2.

And where as M. Doctor asketh, when there is a better time to speake of death and of morta∣litie, than at 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉urial, surely if it had bene so sit, the Prophets and Apostles would neuer haue lost that oportunitie, or let passe that occasion of aduauncing and making effectuall their preaching. What if it be answered (*) 1.30 that for as much as our life, is a continuall meditation of death, it is not sal〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e to vse this custome, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉or that it tieth our cogitation to so shorte a tyme, as the tune of buriall is, whiche ought to be extended to the whole course of our life. But I answere that it may be well done with∣out any such funerall sermons, when the minister taketh occasion of the death of any which is lately departed, to speake of the vanitie of the life of man.

Io. Whitgifte.

The Prophets and Apostles did not preache at burials, therefore it is not a moste conue∣nient time to speake of death and of mortalitie. The antecedent is doubtful, and not pro∣ued, and though it were true, the argument followeth not, for it is your vsuall kinde of reasoning negatiuely of authoritie. But why haue you not made here any mention of the other thinges conteined in my Answere to the Admonition, whiche bée necessary pointes to be entreated of, and most fit for that tune: as purgatory, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rentals. &c?

Againe you reason thus: our life is a continuall meditation of death, and by funerall ser∣mons* 1.31 it is tied vnto a short tyme as the tune of buriall is, therefore funerall sermons be not lawefull: the putting of vs in minde of our mortalitie by funerall sermens, is no hin∣draunce to our continuall meditation of it, but an helpe rather and a meanes to stirre it vp & to reuiue it. We ought at all times to meditate of the death of Christ, but must we therfore refuse at some times to receiue the sacrament of the supper, whereby we are put in minde therof? or doth the receiuing of this sacrament once in a monthe, re∣straine our meditation of Christs death to that time only? doth a sermon preached of the death of Christ, at some times appointed, binde our cogitation to that time onlye? surely then are we very vnprofitable hearers. Wherfore although our life be a con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉i∣nuall meditation of death, yet can it not be but most profitable for vs, to be put in mynde therof at some one time, more than at other some tyme, & especially at that time when we sée with our eyes that which we heare with our eares. And what can this reason more preuayle against sermons at burials, than it may doe against sermons at the administration of the Sacramentes, or any other appointed or sette tyme?

The like or the same kynde of argument you vsed before against the feast of Easter,* 1.32 and other such like dayes, where I haue in like manner answered the same. I thinke verily that by this time you are ashamed of it.

At the length you saye that it may be well done, without any suche funerall sermons, &c. and therefore there may be no funerall sermons. And I saye it may as well and bet∣ter be done in and by funerall sermons, and therefore funerall sermons may be, &c.

Chap. 6. the. 10. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 162. tovvards the ende.

Whether M. Doctor liketh the reformation or no; so it is in the church where M. Calu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ne w〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉astor, and ha〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 be〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e for these many yeares. And although the Englyshe churche in Geneua had that in the booke of common prayer, yet (as I haue heard of those which were there present) it was no〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 so vsed. And if it had bene, yet thereby it is not proued that M. Caluine allowed of it. For with things wherein there was no great and manifest disorder, M. Caluine did beare that whiche hee liked 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t of. And there being no Papistes in all the citie, and all beyng well instructed, there was no such〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉unger in a funerall sermon there, as is here amongst vs, where there be many Papistes and mo ignorant. I w〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ll saye nothing of the great abuse of those whiche hauing otherwyse to lyue on of the churche, take nobles for euery such sermon, and sometyme a mournyng gowne, which cau∣seth th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to open their mouthes wyde, and to say that the marchandise of sermons is much beare〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 than of the 〈◊〉〈◊〉, for that they might haue for a groa〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e or sixe pence, and the sermon they can not haue vnder a rou〈1 line〉〈1 line〉der summe.

Io. Whitgifte.

I haue tolde you before howe much M. Cal〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ine him selfe misliketh this ambitious* 1.33 morositie, which woulde driue all churches to the example of one. It firste brought Rome to that extreame pryde & arrogācie, wherewith it is now so greatly puffed vp.

I must beleue that booke that is printed published and vncontrolled, before I be∣leue your vncertaine reportes, although in such matters I do not depende vpon the churche of Geneua, whiche will not I am sure condemne our vse in these sermons, though it vse them not it selfe.

I heare as yet no probable reason why funeral sermons should not be where ther〈1 line〉〈1 line〉* 1.34 are Papistes, and suche as be ignorante. I am fully perswaded that they be in those places moste necessary, where there are moste Papistes, bicause they minister espe∣ciall occasion to confute these errors, wherein the Papistes be moste blynded, & from the which they are with most difficultie drawen. But we must permit vnto you your paradoxes, and your fansies, else all is marred.

You saye you wyll not speake of the abuse of those that take nobles for such Sermons, ha∣uing otherwyse to lyue, neyther will I defende them if they either exacte it, or require it, or take it with offence. Yet if it be giuen vnto them by the wyll of the dead, or for the bet〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er solemnizing of the burials of suche as be noble or worshipfull, I sée no cause why it should be vnlaweful for them, to take that which by such meanes is giuen vn∣to them: otherwyse I thinke it not méete for preachers to make a common or vsuall gayne of it.

Chap. 6. the. 11. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 163. Lin. 5.

That must be remembred (which I had almoste forgotten) howe vntruely and slaundero〈1 line〉〈1 line〉slye M. doctor sayth that y^e authors of the Admonitiō do compare the sermon with a trentall or a masse. For when I saye in steade of the masse we haue the holy Communion: do (*) 1.35 I compare or liken the communion to y^e m〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sse? and yet this is M. doctors charitable collectiō, which gathereth things which no man letteth 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉all.

Io. Whitgifte.

If with that mynde and sense you saye, the holy Communion is in steade of the Masse,

that they saye, buriall Sermons are put in the place of trentals, you saye wickedly and vn∣godly: for they speake it in the euill parte, to the deprauing of those sermons: therfore I slaunder them not, but they slaunderously speake of the preaching of y^e word of God. And for my vpright dealing with them in this poynt, I refuse not the iudgement, of any man that hath iudgement.

Chap. 6. the. 12. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag 201. Sect. 1.

Touching the place of buriall, I muse what you meane to mislike* 1.36 of it, seeing there hath always bene an appointed place for the same, euen from Abraham to this daye.

T. C. Page 163. Lin. 10.

Touching the place of buriall, I haue spoken before. And although it be not to be misliked, that there should be a common place to bury in yet the places which M. doctor poynteth vs vnto, proue the cleane contrary. For by the story o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Abrahams place of buriall, it appeareth that y^e manner was that euery one was buried in his owne seuerall grounde, as may appeare also by that, that the Euā∣geliste* 1.37 sai〈1 line〉〈1 line〉h, that there was a fielde bought to bury the straungers in, which had no place of their owne, which was also vsed sometimes in the churches vnder the Gospell, as appeareth by the story of Theodoret, which I haue before recited, and in the latter ende of a funerall oration, whiche Gre∣gorie Naz〈1 line〉〈1 line〉anzene made of the death of his brother Cesarius. And so by this reason M. Doctor would haue euery one buried in his owne possession.

Io. Whitgifte.

There haue bene placēs alwayes appointed to bury the dead in, dedicated to that vse onely, and therefore there may be so nowe, neither haue you one word in any ap∣proued wryter to the contrary. The conuenience of the place, & the pointing of it out, is in the power of those that haue authoritie, and be gouernours of the cōmon wealth and churche, and with that place that by them is thought moste conuenient we ought to be contented. Neither do I heare any reason to proue that there ought to be any al∣teration of the places already appointed.

Whatsoeuer you haue spoken to the contrary in the other place, I haue there* 1.38 answered.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Of Buriall〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.2

  The dead b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉d by the minister and with pra〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er in the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Church.
• * 1.3

  Tertul. de Anima.
• * 1.4

  An order re∣ceyued in the Church nee∣deth no proof, vntill by rea∣son it be o∣uerthrowen. Zuinglius ad▪ Balt〈1 line〉〈1 line〉a. resp.
• * 1.5

  Prayer for the dead not, mainteyned.
• * 1.6

  Pag. 199. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 1. 2. 3.
• * 1.7

  E〈1 line〉〈1 line〉position of a prayer at Buriall.
• * 1.8

  Leuit. 21.
• * 1.9

  The prescript forme of ser∣uice maintey∣neth not pr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y∣er for the dea〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 but 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• * 1.10

  The replyer had rather conforme him selfe to the Iewes than 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o this church
• * 1.11

  The duetie of ministers not hindred by burying the dead.
• * 1.12

  Pa. 49. Se. vlt
• * 1.13

  Of mourning 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉pparell.
• * 1.14

  Mourning apparell aun∣cient.
• (*) 1.15

  Vntruth, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 their word〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 be playne.
• * 1.16

  1. Thes. 4. Math. 9. Iohn. 11.
• * 1.17

  Cyp. 4. ser∣mone de mortalitate Augus. li. 2. de consolat. mortuorum
• * 1.18

  There is both a lawfull and an vnl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉w full vse of mour〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ing ap∣parell.
• * 1.19

  Funerall sermons.
• * 1.20

  Sermons most nece〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sary at 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.21

  Sermons wickedly compared to trentalls.
• * 1.22

  Funerall ser∣mons allowed of M. Cal∣uine.
• * 1.23

  Funerall ser∣mons nourish not an opinion that the dead are the better for them.
• * 1.24

  T. C. forget∣teth him selfe.
• * 1.25

  Page. 123. Sect. 1.
• * 1.26

  2. Chro. 35. 2. sam. 1. and. 3.
• * 1.27

  The order of the Primitiue churche in fu∣nerals.
• * 1.28

  M. Foxe par. 1 Pag. 146.
• * 1.29

  Funerall ser∣mons serue to comfor〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e those that are gree∣ued.
• (*) 1.30

  It were very 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ondly answere▪
• * 1.31

  An absurd ar∣gum〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t against funerall ser∣mons.
• * 1.32

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. 120. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉2
• * 1.33

  Tract. 9. cap. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Diui. 13.
• * 1.34

  Funer〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ll ser∣mons do most good where there are most Papists.
• (*) 1.35

  Yea su〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ely if you 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉peake to disc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉edite it.
• * 1.36

  The place of Buriall.
• * 1.37

  Math. 27.
• * 1.38

  Tract. 5. cap. 2 Diuis. 7.