The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

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The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.
Author
Whitgift, John, 1530?-1604.
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Printed at London :: By Henry Binneman, for Humfrey Toye,
Anno. 1574.
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Subject terms
Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603. -- Replye to an answere made of M. Doctor Whitgifte -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Church of England -- Apologetic works -- Early works to 1800.
Episcopacy -- Early works to 1800.
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http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A15130.0001.001
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"The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A15130.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 15, 2024.

Pages

¶ Of reading of Homilies and the Apo∣crypha in the Churche.

Chap. 2. the. 1. Diuision.
Admonition.

The second reason. In this booke also it is appoynted that after the Creede if there be no sermon, an homily must follow eyther already set out, or hereafter to be set out. This is scarce playne dealyng, that they would haue vs to consent vnto that which we neuer saw, and whiche is to be set out hereafter, we hauing had such cause already to distrust them by that whiche is already set out, beyng corrupt and straunge to maynteyne an vnlearned and reading ministerie. And sith it is playne that mens workes ought to be kepte in, and nothing else but the voyce of God and ho∣ly Scriptures, in whiche onely are conteyned (y) 1.1 all fulnesse and sufficiencie to decide controuer∣sies,* 1.2 must sound in his church, for the very name Apocrypha testifieth, that they ought rather to be kept close, than to be vttered.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 171. Sect. 1. 2.

Your second reason in fewe wordes is this: In the booke of common* 1.3 prayer it is appointed that after the Creede, if there be no sermon, an Homilie must follow, eyther already set out, or hereafter to be set out, but you knowe not what will hereafter be set out, therefore you will not subscribe.

You haue no cause to suspect any thing touching religion set out by publike authoritie (for so is the booke) or hereafter to be set out by com∣mon authoritie. Hitherto you are not able to conuince any Homilie set out by common authoritie, of any errour, and therfore you ought not* 1.4 to be suspicious of any that is to come. If any Homilie shall hereaf∣ter be set out, wherein you mislike any thing, you neede not to reade it, the booke doth not appoynt you this or that Homily to reade, but some one which you like best. But what neede you to be scrupulous in this matter? if you be disposed to preache, then neede you reade no Homilie at all, therefore this is no reason.

T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 2.

I answere that although it be meete, that as we hope that the Homilies which are made al∣ready be godly, so those that shall be made hereafter, shalbe likewise: yet considering the mutabili∣tie of men, and that of tentimes to the worse, it is not meere. nay, it is merely vnlawfull, to subscribe to a blancke, seyng that we cannot witnesse or allow of those thinges which we haue not seene nor hearde.

Page 716

Io. Whitgifte.

If you be disposed to quarrell, it is an easie matter to picke out occasions, but your suspicion is without cause, and I thinke a modest protestation in that poynt would not be refused.

Chap. 2. the. 2. Diuision.
Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 171. Sect. 3. 4.

This assertion (that in the holy Scriptures is conteyned all fulnesse to decide controuersies) if you meane controuersies in matters of fayth, and in matters touching saluation, is very true, but you haue vsed litle dis∣cretion in quoting some places to proue the same.

I finde no faulte with you for cyting the sixte verse of the. 2. Tim. 3. for the. 16. verse, that is but a small ouersight, and it may be in the Printer: but howe do you conclude this assertion of the wordes of Peter. 2. Epist. cap. 1. verse. 20. which be these, so that ye firste knovv that no prophecie of the Scripture is of any priuate motion: for this place on∣ly proueth that the Scriptures be not of men, but of the holy ghost: it speaketh nothing of the sufficiencie of the Scripture.

Io. Whitgifte.

Nothing answered.

Chap. 2. the. 3. Diuision.
Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 172. Sect. 1. 2. 3.

That place also. 1. Cor. 1. is not fitly applied to this purpose: there is Scripture sufficient directly to proue the sufficiencie of scripture, so that you should not haue needed to giue the aduersarie occasion to carpe at the vnaptnesse of these places for that purpose.

Homilies conteyning doctrine agreable to the Scriptures, be of the same nature that sermons be: Wherefore if it be not lawfull in the Churche to reade Homilies, neyther is it lawfull to preach Ser∣mons: The reason is all one, neither is there any difference, but that Homelies be read in the booke, Sermons sayde without the booke.

Homilies are pithie, learned, and sounde: sermons oftentimes be* 1.5 wordes without matter, vnlearned, erroneous.

T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. vlt.

The place vnto the Corinthes, is the same vnto the Romaines, and M. Doctor approuing one hath no cause to finde faulte with the other. For the hemilies, first of all I haue shewed how absurde a saying, and how vnlike a diuine it is, to matche reading of homilies with preaching of sermons. For if the reading of the holy Scriptures is nothing so fruitefull as the preaching of them, muche lesse is the reading of homilies to be for their fruite matched with preaching of ser∣mons.

Io. Whitgifte.

Neither of both the places doth proue directly that, for the which the Authors of the Admonition do vse them: and there be other places more manifest which they haue omitted.

Page 717

I haue answered in that place to all your Replie concerning this point: I do not match reading of Homilies with Sermons simply, or with all sermons, but with* 1.6 some: and to some sermons I do preferre the Reading of Homilies for the causes conteyned in mine Answere to the Admonition. Both the reading and the preach∣ing of the Scriptures is necessarie, and the one in diuerse respectes as necessarie, and in some respectes more necessarie than the other. For the Scripture is the rule to discerne and iudge sermons and preachers by: Christe willeth to take heede of false* 1.7 Prophetes. Math. 7. Which can not be done without the diligent reading of the Scrip∣tures: those of Thessalonica are to be commended, for trying by the Scriptures the* 1.8 doctrine preached vnto them: Act. 17. S. Iohn willeth that the spirites be tried, whe∣ther* 1.9 they be of God or no, which must be by the Scriptures. S. Paule Gal. 1. willeth them to holde him accursed that shall preach any other Gospell vnto them, whiche they can not do without that knowledge, whiche God doth giue vnto them by reading of the Scriptures. Infinite places there be, that tendeth to this ende, but I haue spoken of this matter before. This is my opinion that both reading and preaching be most necessarie: but in some respectes the one to be preferred before the other.

Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. vlt.

There remayneth that I shew briefly, that neyther the Homilies nor the Apocrypha, are at all to be redde in the Churche. Wherein first it is good to consider the order which the Lorde kept with his people in tymes past, when he commaunded that no vessell, nor no instrument, either be∣some, or flesh hooke, or panne, &c. should come into the temple▪ but those onely which were sanctified and set aparte for that vse. And in Leuiticus, he will haue no other trumpets blowne to call the* 1.10 people togither, but those onely which were set aparte for that purpose. What should the meaning of this lawe be? The matter of other common vessels and trumpets, was the same oftentimes which theirs was, the same forme also, and the other beesomes and hookes and trumpets hable to serne for the vses ofsweeping and sounding. &c. as well as those of the temple, and as those whiche were set aparte, wherfore mought not these then as well be vsed in the temple as others? Forsoth, bicause the Lord would by these rudimēts & pedagogie teach, that he would haue nothing brought into the church, but that which he had appoynted, no, not although they seemed in the iudgement of men, as good as those things which God himselfe had placed there. Which thing is much more to be obserued in this matter, seing that the Homelies redde, be they neuer so learned and pithie, neyther the Apocrypha, are to be cōpared either in goodnesse within thēselues, eyther in fruite, or in effect towards the hearer, with the authenticall scriptures of God. Now if a man will say that the Ho∣milies do explane, and lay open the scriptures, I answere, that the worde of God also is playne and* 1.11 easie to be vnderstanded, and such as giueth vnderstanding to Idiotes and to the simple. And if* 1.12 there be hardnesse in them, yet the promise of the assistance of Gods spirite, that God hath giuen to the reading of the Scriptures in the church, which he hath not giuen to homilies▪ or to the Apocry∣pha, will be able to weygh with the harduesse, and to ouer come it, so that there shall easily appeare greater profite to come vnto the church by reading of the scriptures▪ than by reading of homilies.

Io. Whitgifte.

All this of the vestels of the temple, the instruments, beesoms, flesh hookes, trumpets, &c. is superstuous, and proueth nothing, except it can be shewed that the Lorde hath com∣maunded only the Canonicall scriptures to be redde in the Church and nothing els: or that the Lord hath as particularly expressed all thinges to be vsed in the Churche vnder the Gospell, as he did in the temple vnder the lawe, the contrarie whereof I haue proued Tract. 2. and the kinde of reasoning that you vse in this and other places* 1.13 vpon similitudes is not of sufficient force to proue any thing, onely it carrieth away the ignorant people. In the rest of this portion you argue against your selfe: for you proue the excellentie, and the worthinesse of the Scriptures, and the great cōmoditie that cōmeth by reading of them, which I haue laboured against the authours of the Admonition to verifie. But what can you therevpon cōclude agaynst Homilies, that may not be in like manner against Sermons, or other interpretation of the Scrip∣tures? and rather against the one, (that is sermons) than against the other. For as I sayd before, I make this onely difference betwixt Homilies & Sermons, that the one is pronounced within the booke, the other not so. If you obiect & say that the Preacher

Page 718

is directed by the spirite of God, I will answere that the writers of Homilies, be so likewise. And what can you alleage in this poynt for the one, that I can not alleage for the other? The promise of the assistance of Gods spirite, is as well giuen to him that writeth Homilies, & to those that heare them, as it is to such as studie for their sermons, & such as heare them. To the Scriptures I giue the chiefe preheminence, but yet both Sermons, and all other kindes of teaching, publishing the doctrine con∣teyned in the Scriptures, haue their singular commodities, and necessarie vses in the Churche of God.

But either I vnderstande you amisse, or else do you not well agrée with your* 1.14 self: for let the Reader consider the great commoditie, that you truly giue to the rea∣ding of the Scripture in this place, with that abasing of the same, that in the defense of the authors of the Admonitiō you vse Pag. 173. which I will also note when I come* 1.15 to that place.

Chap. 2. the. 5. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 158. Sect. 1.

Besides this the pollicie of the church of God in tymes past is to be followed herein, that for the expounding of darker places, places of more easinesse ought to be ioyned togither, as in the per∣secution of Antiochus, where they coulde not haue the commoditie of preaching, the Iewes did appoynt at their meeting alwayes a peece of the lawe to be redde, and with all a peece of the Pro∣phets which expounded that peece of the lawe, rather than to bryng in interpretations of men to be redde. And bycause I am entred into that matter, here commeth to be considered, the practise also of the church, both before our sauiour Christes comming, and after, that when the churches met togither, there is nothing mentioned but the reading of the Scriptures, for so is the Liturgie described in the Actes. And it is not to be thought, but that they had those which made expositions* 1.16 of the law & the Prophets. And besides that they had Onkelos the Calday paraprast, both Gala∣tyne,* 1.17 and Rabbi Moses (surnamed Maynion) write, that Ionathan an other of the Calday para∣phrasts florished in our sauiour Christes time, whose writings & paraphrases vpon the scriptures, are esteemed cōparable in that kinde of paraphrasticall writing, with any which hath laboured that wayes, & if any mens writings were to be redde in the churche, those paraphrases which in expla∣ning the scripture, go least from it, and which kept not only the numbre of sentences, but almost the very number of wordes, were of all most fit to be redde in the churche, seyng therefore (I say) the church of God then absteyned from such interpretations in the churche, and contented it selfe with the scriptures, it can not be but a most daungerous attempt, to bring any thing into the churche to be redde, besides the worde of God. This practise (*) 1.18 continued still in the Churches of God after the Apostles times, as may appeare by the second Apologie of Iustine Martyr, whiche sheweth that their manner was to read in the church the monuments of the Prophets, and of the Apostles, and if they had redde any thing els, it is to be supposed that he would haue set it downe, considering that his purpose there, is to shewe the whole order whiche was vsed in their churches then. The same may appeare in the first homilie of Origen vpon Exodus, and vpon the Iudges.

Io. Whitgifte.

Surely in all this there is nothing spokē against reading of Homilies, that may* 1.19 not in like manner be alleaged against preaching of sermons, & other godly exercises of interpreting the scriptures: for if Homilies interpreting the scriptures according to the true meaning, & sense of them, be the interpretations of men, and therefore not to be redde in the Church, whose interpretations shall we call Sermons, and other readinges? The one as well as the other is vttered by men, & by men in that order framed. But I thinke that no right and true interpretation of the Scripture is to be* 1.20 compted mans, though it be written, redde, or preached by man, for the spirite of God is the Author of it, & man is but the instrument. The rest of your proofes taken frō the vse of the Church (as you say) be all ab authoritate negatiuè: and most of them ab au∣thoritate hominum: whiche kinde of argument your self haue before vtterly condēned. I haue oftentimes could you that an argument, à non facto, ad non ius (& it is M. Zuin∣glius and other mens iudgement, as well as mine) is good neyther in diuine, nor yet in humane thinges.

So far as I can learne Ionathan the Calday Paraphrast, florished not in Chri∣stes* 1.21 time, (as you say) but. 42. yeares before Christ was borne, and I thinke there is none of these Paraphrastes so faithfull, in interpreting, but that they misse in some places: & you can not but acknowledge, that one good Sermon or Homilie of some

Page 719

learned mans, well & plainely redde to the people, may edifie them more, than the reading of these Paraphrastes. And yet I suppose you knowe, that the Iewes haue those Paraphrastes, as yet redde in their Churches: wherefore hitherto if you haue spoken any thing it is against your selfe.

But you say, that this practise continued still in the Churches of god, &c. and you proue it by Iustine Martyr, bycause he mentioneth nothing read in the churche, but Monuments of the Prophetes, and Ipostles. Concerning your proofe, I haue declared already of what force it is, being drawne ab authoritate humana negatiuè. Now that this practise continued not still in the Church, you shall easily perceyue if you peruse that which Eusebius wri∣teth* 1.22 out of an Epistle of Dionysius Corinthius to Soter Byshop of Rome, where he writeth after this sorte. And in this epistle there is mention of an Epistle of Clemēt writ∣ten to the Corinthians, declaring that (according to the olde custome) it was read in the* 1.23 Church. For thus he sayth: we haue this day celebrated the holy day of the Lorde, where∣in we read your Epistle, whiche we will alwayes read for admonition sake, in like sorte as* 1.24 the former epistle written to vs from Clement. The Authors of the Centuries wri∣ting of this Dionysius, thinke it not vnlike that his Epistles were also read in the Churche, bicause Eusebius calleth them Catholicas, Catholike. Their woordes be these: Non videtur prae〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ereundum, quòd Eusebius basce epistolas Catholicas vocet: fortè quia in Ecc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e∣sijs* 1.25 piorum solitae sunt legi, sicut Clementis. This thing woulde not be omitted, that Euse∣bius calleth these epistles Catholike: peraduenture, bicause they were wonte to be read in the Churches of the faythfull, as the Epistle of Clement was. And this may testifie of the practise of the Churche in Iustinus Martyrs time better than your negatiue* 1.26 argument. And of the practise since, the. 4. Can. Concil. Vasens. will giue sufficient testimo∣nie, where it is decreed, that if the ministers be let by infirmitie or sickenesse, the Homi∣lies* 1.27 of the fathers should be read of the Deacons.

Chap. 2. the. 6. Diuision.
Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 172. Sect. 3.

But of readyng Homilyes in the Churche I haue some thing* 1.28 spoken before, nowe it shall be sufficient onely to set downe Master Bucers iudgement of this matter in his notes vpon the Commu∣nion booke, whiche is this. It is better that vvhere there lackes to ex∣pounde the Scriptures vnto the people, there shoulde be Godly and lear∣ned Homilyes redde vnto them, rather than they shoulde haue no exhor∣tation at all in the administration of the Supper. And a litle after: There be too fevve Homilies, and to fevve poyntes of Religion taught in them: vvhen therefore the Lorde shall blesse this kingdome, vvith some excel∣lent Preachers, lette them be commaunded to make mo Homilyes of the principall poynts of Religion, vvhich may be redde to the people, by those Pastors, that can not make better themselues.

T. C. Pag. 158. Tovvardes the ende.

And as for Master Bucers authoritie, I haue shewed before how it ought to be weyghed, and here also it is suspitious, for that it is sayde that his aduise was, that when the Lord should blesse the realme with mo learned preachers, that then order should be taken to make more homi∣lies, which should be redde in ye church vnto the people. As if M. Bucer did not know. that there were then learned preachers enough in the realme, which were able to make Homilies so many as the volume of thē might easily haue exceeded the volume of the Bible, if the multitude of Homi∣lies, would haue done so much good. And if the authoritie of Master Bucer beare so great a swaye with Master Doctor, that vpon his credite onely, without eyther Scripture or reason,

Page 720

or examples of the Churches primitiue, or those which are nowe, he dare thrust into the churche Homilies, then the authorities of the most auncient and best councels ought to haue bene conside∣red, which haue giuen charge, that nothing should be redde in the church, but onely the Canonicall Scriptures.

Io. Whitgifte.

They are M. Bucers woordes in déede, neyther is there any cause why you should suspect them so to be. And it is not his iudgemēt only, but other learned mens* 1.29 also: and namely that famous man D. Ridlies, Bishop of London in the treatise be∣fore rehearsed. Wherein thus he speaketh of the Churche of Englande, that was in King Edwards time. It had also holy and wholesome Homilies in commendation of the* 1.30 principall vertues, which are commended in Scripture, and likewise other Homilies agaynst the most pernicious and capitall vices, that vseth (alas) to reygne in this Church of England. And truly these authorities if I had no other reason, preuaile more with me than all that you, or any of your parte had sayd, or is able to say to the contrarie.

Chap. 2. the. 7. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 159. Lin. 4.

For it was decreed in the councell of Laodicea, that nothing should be redde in the churche, but the Canonicall bookes, of the olde and newe Testament, and reckeneth vp what they be. Af∣terwarde* 1.31 as corruptions grewe in the church▪ it was permitted that homilies might be redde by the Deacon, when the minister was sicke, and could not preach, and it was also in an other Coun∣cell of Carthage permitted, that the martyres lyues might be redde in the church, but besides the e∣uill successe that those decrecs had (vnder preteuce whereof the Popish Legende, and Gregories* 1.32 homilies, &c. creptin) that vse and custome was controlled by other councels, as may appeare by the councell of Colen, albeit otherwise Popishe. And truly if there were nothing else but this con∣sideration, that the bringyng in of the readyng of Martyres liues into the churche, and of the ho∣milies of auncient wryters, hath not onely by this meanes iustled with the Bible, but also thrust it cleane out of the church, or into a corner where it was not redde nor seene, it ought to teache all men to beware of placing any wryting or worke of men in the church of God, be they neuer so well learned, as long as the world should endure.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is certayne that the decrée of the Councel of Laodicea, can no more condemne the reading of Homilies in the Churche, than it may the readyng of Prayers or Ca∣thechismes, or any other interpretation of the Scriptures. The meaning of the* 1.33 Councell is onely, that nothing be redde in the Churche as Scripture, or vnder the name of Scripture, but that which is Canonicall. And that doth euidently appeare in the. 47. Canon of the third Councell of Carthage, which doth explane this Canon. The woordes be these: Item placuit vt praeter Scripturas Canonicas, nihil in Ecclesia legatur sub nomine diuinarum scripturarum. It is thought good that nothing be redde in the Church, vnder the name of the scriptures of God, but the Canonicall Scriptures. It doth not ther∣fore* 1.34 inhibite interpretations of the scripture and godly exhortations grounded vpon the same to be redde. Concilium vasense (as it is before declared) appointeth Homilies* 1.35 to be redde, when there is no Sermon, by reason of some infirmitie or sickenesse in the minister, which is a godly and profitable decrée, neyther could it be the cause of a∣ny corruption.

I do not defend the reading of any thing in the Churche which is not grounded* 1.36 vpon the worde of God, therefore the decrée of the Councell of Carthage, or any such like doth nothing touch the cause that I defende: and yet I know not in what sort or out of what storie these liues of Martyres were redde. I like very well of the decrée of the councell of Colen, for it inhibiteth the reading in the Churche of fabulous, and barbarous stories of the liues of Sainctes, whereby it is like that the booke called Le∣genda aurea is mente. But what is this against godly Homilies, that conteyne the true interpretation of the scriptures, godly exhortation to good life, & sound proofes of true doctrine, which is as far frō iustling the bible out of the church, or into corners, as is preach∣ing. And I muse that you can alleage this for a cause, seing you thinke so slenderly of the reading of the Scriptures, and will haue ye same giue place to your sermons.

Page 721

Chap. 2. the. 8. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 159. Sect. 1.

And if any man (*) 1.37 obiect, that by this meanes also is shut out of the church the forme of ordi∣narie Prayers to be sayde: I saye the case is nothing lyke, for when wee pray, wee can not vse the wordes of the Scripture, as they orderly lie in the text. But for so much as the church pray∣eth for dyuers things necessarie for it, the which are not conteined in one or two places of the scrip∣ture, and that also there are some things which we haue need of, wherof there is no expresse pray∣er in the scripture, it is needfull that there be a forme of prayer drawne forthe out of the Scrip∣ture, which the church may vse when it meeteth, as the occasion of the tyme doth require, which necessitie can not be by no meanes alleaged in the reading of Homelies or Apocrypha. Whervpon appeareth, that it is not so wel ordeyned in the church of Englande, where both Homilies and A∣pocrypha are read, especially when as diuers chapters of the books called Apocrypha are lifted vp so high, that they are sometyme appoynted for extraordinarie lessons vpon feastes dayes, wherein the greatest assemblies be made, and some of the chapters of the canonicall Scripture, (as certain chapters of the Apocalyps) quite lefte out, and not redde at all.

Io. Whitgifte.

You haue made an obiection which you can not answere, and against the which all these reasons that you haue before vsed do as much preuayle, as they doe against reading of Homilies: and whatsoeuer you can say for the one, may likewise be said for the other. For when we interprete the Scriptures, when we teache, or exhorte, we can not vse onely the wordes of the scripture, as they lye orderly in the texte, but wee muste amplifye them, displace them, applie them to the matter we speake of, entermin∣gling them with our owne wordes and phrases. For except you will graunt this to be lawfull, as wel in exhorting and teaching, as in publike preaching, you must (as I sayd before) as well condemne Sermons, as Homilies.

The Apocrypha that we reade in the Church, haue bene so vsed of long tyme, as* 1.38 it may appeare in that third councel of Carthage, and 47. Canon, where they be rec∣kened among the Canonicall bookes of the Scripture. They maye as well be read in the Church, as counted portions of the olde and new Testament: and forasmuch as there is nothing in them contrarie to the rest of the Scripture. I sée no inconue∣nience, but much commoditie that may come by the reading of them.

Notes

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