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Nowe I come to the forme of prayer whiche is prescribed, wherein the Authors of the Admo∣nition declare that their meaning is not to disallowe of prescript seruice of prayer, but of thys fo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rme that we haue, (*) 1.1 for they expounde them selues in the additions vnto the fyrst parte of the Admonition.
In déede they haue retracted it in some poynt, which argueth they writte their booke at the first with small aduise, and lesse discretion. It is no exposition but a retrac∣tation or recantation, for the places of Scripture which they quoted, and their very wordes declare that they ment the contrary, and so doth their practise in secrete con∣uenticles. But now you come to my Answere, wherein you take what you list, and leaue what you list as you haue hitherto done.
The fouretenth. Then ministers were not so tied to any forme of prayers inuented by mā, but as the spirit (g) 1.2 moued them, so they powred forth hartie supplications to the Lord. Now they are bound of necessitie to a (h) 1.3 prescripte order of seruice, and boke of common prayer.
To proue that ministers were not so tied to any forme of prayer, inuented by man, but that as the spirite moued them, &c. you quote Rom. 8. & the 1. Timo. 1. In the eight to the Romaines the wordes be these: Likevvise also the spirite helpeth our infirmities, for vve knovve not vvhat to pray, as vve ought, but the spirite it self maketh request for vs, vvith fighes which cannot be expressed. This place speaketh nothing against any prescript forme of prayer, for then it should disallow the Lordes prayer, but it teacheth vs that it is the spirite of God that sturreth vs vp to pray, and maketh vs earnestly poure out our supplications vnto God. And thus the spirit worketh as well by prescript prayers as by prayers sodenly inuented. The wordes to Timothie Epist. 1. ca. 1. vers. 2. are far fetched, & nothing to the purpose: the wordes be these. Vnto Timothie my natural sonne in the fayth, grace mercie and peace from God our father, and from Christ Iesu our Lorde: what maketh these wordes against any prescript forme of prayers? peraduenture you would haue alleaged the 1. to Timo. 2. I exhort therefore that first of all, supplications, &c. which maketh directly agaynst you.
Nothing answered to this.
If you meane by prayers inuented by man, such prayers as man inuenteth against the worde of God, as prayer for the dead, prayer vnto saincts, & such like, then it is true that you say. But if you mean such prayers as by godly men be framed according to the holy scrip∣tures, whether they be for matters perteyning to the life to come, or to this life, then you shew your ignorāce, for it is manifest, that there hath bene alwayes in the Church of Christ, a prescript forme of pu∣blike prayer, as it appeareth in Iustinus Martyr. Apol. 2. Pro Christianis, & o∣ther* 1.4 auncient fathers: neyther did euer any learned or godly man, or reformed Church finde faulte herewith, or not greatly cōmende the same, except onely the secte of Anabaptistes.
It is not to any purpose, that M. Doctor setteth himself to proue that there may be a prescript
order of prayer by Iustine Martyres testimonie, which notwithstanding hath not one worde of prescript forme of prayers, only he sayth there were prayers, he sayth in deede the auncient fathers say that there hath bene alwayes such kinde of prayers in the Churches, and although they do say so, yet all men may vnderstand easily, that M. Doctor speaketh this rather by contecture, or that he hath hearde other men say so: for so much as that Doctor which he hath chosen out to speake for 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ll the rest, hath no such thing, as he fathereth on him. He sayeth that after they haue baptized, they pray for themselues, and for him that is baptized, and for all men that they may be meete to learne the truth, and to expresse it in their honest conuersation, and that they be founde to keepe th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉m∣maundementes, that they may atteyne to eternall life, but is this to say that there was a prescript forme of prayer, when he sheweth nothing els, but the chiefe poynts, vpon the which they conceyued their prayers? If you had alleaged this to proue what were the matters or principall poynts that the Primitiue Churche vsed to pray for, you had alleaged this to purpose, but to alleage it for a proofe of a prescript forme of prayer, when there is not there mentioned so much as the essentiall forme of prayer (which is the asking of our petitions in the name and thorough the intercession of our Sauiour Christ) without the which there is not, nor cannot be any prayer, argueth that eyther you little know what the forme of prayer is, or that you thought (as you charge the authors of the Admonition so often) that this geare of yours should neuer haue come to the examination.
But for as much as we agree of a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed in the Church, let that go: this that I haue sayde is to shew that when M. Doctor happeneth of a good cause, which is very seldome in this booke, yet then he marreth it in the handling.
I haue the lesse laboured in this point, bicause it is a thing so generally allowed of in all Churches, in all times, and so vnlearnedly impugned by the authors of the Admonition.
Iustinus Martyr maketh much for my purpose, for in that he doth rehearse those chiefe poyntes of theyr prayers then vsed, it is manifest that they had a prescript or∣der and forme of prayer, the which no man can denie that readeth the place. I graunt that these wordes prescript forme of prayer, are not there to be founde: Yet is there a pre∣script order and forme by him generally described: whereby it is more than proba∣ble, that at that tyme, there was vsed a prescript forme of prayer. In the 3. Councell* 1.5 of Carthage we finde this Canon: Let no man vse the formes of prayer which he hath framed to himselfe, without conference with brethren, that are better learned. Whereby it may euidently be gathered, that at that time there was a prescript forme of prayer vsed, and that it was not lawfull to vse any new forme of priuate prayers, except the same were allowed by the brethren. But for as much as in this poynt you consent with me, and graunt that there may be a prescript forme of prayer: I will omitte whatsoeuer I had purposed to haue sayde more in that matter: and so I will do also your taunts, respecting the matter, rather than Lucians Rhetoricke.
Damasus was a good Bishop & therfore no good thing by him ap∣pointed* 1.6 to be disallowed: but he did not first ordeyne a prescript forme of publike prayers, he onely added something therevnto. As Gloria patri, &c. to the end of euery psalme: And decreed that Psalmes should be song aswell in the night time, as in the day time in euery Church, but they were song in the Church before, and as I haue sayde, there was a prescript forme of prayer in Iustinus Martyrs time, who was long before Damasus.
Gregorie added the Letanie onely. I muse what you meane to* 1.7 write so manifest vntruthes.
Nothing answered to this.
You note not here (neyther are you able) any prayer in the whole Cōmunion booke, wherein there is any thing not agreeable to Gods worde, we may say as S. Augustine sayth in his 121. Epistle written Ad Probam viduam. Etsi per omnia praecationum sanctarum verba discurras quantum existim〈1 line〉〈1 line〉* 1.8 nihil inuenies, quod non ista Dominica contineat & concludat orati〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Vnde liberum est alijs at{que} alijs verbis, eadem tamen in orando dicere: sed non debet esse liberum alia dicere. And if thou run∣nest thorough all the vvordes of the holy prayers. I suppose thou shalt finde nothing vvhich the Lordes prayer doth not conteyne and comprehende: therefore vve may in other vvordes speake the same thinges in our prayers, but vve may not speake contrarie things.
After he a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉irmeth, that there can be nothing shéwed in the whole booke which is not agree∣able to the worde of God.
I am very loth to enter into this fielde, albeit M. Doctor doth thus prouoke me, both by∣cause the Papistes will lightly take occasion of euill speaking, when they vnderstande that we do not agree amongst our selues in euery poynt, as for that some fewe professoures of the Gospelt be∣ing priuate men, boldened vpon such treatises, take such wayes sometimes, and breake forth into such speaches, as are not meete, nor conuenient.
In so saying I do fullie agrée with such as haue learnedly and truly written a∣gaynst the common aduersaries of this Booke: among whome there is one that wrote a Booke Entituled: A sparing restraynt of many lauishe vntruthes, which M. Do∣ctor Harding doth chalenge in the first Article of my Lorde of Sarisburies Replye. The* 1.9 Author of that booke writeth thus. O M. Harding turne agayne your writinges, examino your authorities, consider your Councels, applie your examples, looke if any line be blame∣able in our seruice, and take holde of your aduantage. I thinke M. Iewell will accept it for an Article. And a little after: Our seruice is good and godly, euery title grounded on ho∣ly Scriptures, and with what face do you call it darkenesse? This was his opinion then of our seruice. And it both was then, and is now my full perswasion: and I will (God willing) performe that against you, which he offred in M. Jewell his name agaynst Harding.
Your 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉othnesse to enter into this fielde, is but dissembled: your continuall barking* 1.10 agaynst the state and forme of this Church of England, doth conuince you of the con∣trarie. Neyther haue you any respect or regarde for giuing occasion o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 euill speach to the Papistes, much lesse of prouoking your adherentes to vnduetifull speaches (as you pretend) your booke tending wholly to the contrary.
Notwithstanding my dutie of defending the truth, & loue which I haue first towardes God, and then towards my countrie, constrayneth me being thus prouoked to speake a few wordes more particularly of the forme of prayer, that when the blemishes thereof do appeare, it may please the Queenes inaiestie & hir honorable councell, with those of the Parliament, whom the Lorde hath v∣s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o as singular instrumentes to d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉liuer this realme from the hote fornace and yron yoke of the po∣pish Egipte, to procure also, that the corruptions which we haue brought from them (as those with which we being so deepely died and stayned, haue not so easily shaken of) may be remoued from a∣mongst vs, to the ende that we beyng necrclicr both ioyned vnto the sinceritie of the gospell, and the 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ollicie of other reformed Churches, may thereby be ioyned nearer with the Lord, and may be se〈1 line〉〈1 line〉te so farre from Rome, that both we may comfort our selues in the hope, that we shall neuer returne thither againe, and our aduersaries which desire it, and by this to much agreement with them, and to little with the reformed Churches, hope for it, may not onely be deceyued of their expectation, but also being out of all hope, of that which they desire, may the soner yeelde themselues vnto the truth, wherevnto they are now disobedient.
What dutie can there be in defacing a knowne and receaued truth? what loue, in flaundering your countrie vniustly, and renting it in pieces with sectes and Schis∣mes, and prouoking the subiectes to haue mislikyng of their Magistrates, and such as be placed in authoritie ouer them? these be but clokes to couer an euill and vngodly purpose. If you shall be able to shewe any suche blemishes in the booke of Common prayers, they shall not be couered for me: but if not, than are you not a man to be credited.
I haue tolde you M. Caluines, and M. Gualters opinion, touching the ambitious* 1.11 morositie of such, as would haue all Churches framed, after the example of some one: and nowe I tell you agayne, that there is no cause why this Churche of Englande, eyther for truth of doctrine, sinceritie of publike diuine seruice, and other pollicie should giue place to any church in Christendome: and sure I am, that we are as 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ioyned with the Lorde our God, as the members are to the bodie, and the bodie to the head.
Our aduersaries haue 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o such hope vpon any suche occasion as you pretende: if* 1.12 their hope be any, it is especially in your contentions.
Wherein do we agrée with the Papistes, or wherein do we dissent from the re∣formed Churches? with these we haue all poynts of doctrine and substance common: from the other we dissent, in the most parte both of doctrine and ceremonies. From what spirite come these bolde and vntrue speaches?
And as for the Papistes triumphe in this case, I shall not greatly neede to feare it▪ 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣ring that their discordes and contentions are greater, a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉d that our stryfe is 〈◊〉〈◊〉 we 〈◊〉〈◊〉 b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉arther from them. For the other that professe the Gospell, I will desire in the name of God; that they abuse not my labour to other ende, than I bestowe it, and that they 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eepe 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉hemselues in theyr callinges, committe the matter by prayer vnto the Lorde, leauing to the ministers of the worde of God, and to the magistrates that which apperteyneth vnto them.
It is true of the Papistes: but they deale in their controuersies more circum∣spectly and warely, though they dissent in matters of farre greater importaunce, and in the chiefe poyntes of their owne Religion.
To the professours of the Gospell you giue better Councell than you haue taken your selfe: and you shewe an example contrary to your wordes: and therefore how shall they beléeue you. But now to the matter: for hitherto you haue vttered nothing but woordes.
To come therfore to touche this matter. I answere that there is fault in the matter, and fault in the forme. In the matter, for that there are things there, that ought not to be, and things there are wanting in the order that should be. Of the firste sorte is, that we may euermore be defended* 1.13 from all aduersitie.
The first fault that you finde in the matter of prayer, is a portion of the Collect of Trinitie Sunday, wherein we pray, That we may euermore be defended from al ad∣uersitie: And is this the matter you mislike? let vs then consider your reason.
Nowe for as much, as there is no promise in the scripture, that we should be free from all ad∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ersitie, and that euermore, it scemeth that this prayer might haue bene better conceyued, being no
prayer of faith, or of the which we cā assure our selues that we shal obteyne it. For if it be sayd, that 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y the worde (aduersitie) is meante all euill, we knowe that it hath no such signification neyther in this tongue of oures, neyther in other tongues which vse the same worde in common with vs, but that it signifieth trouble, vexation, and cala〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tie, from all the which we may not desire alwayes to be deliuared. And whatsoeuer can be alleaged for the defense of it, yet euery one that is not conten∣tio〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s, may see that it needeth some caution or exception.
I thinke no man will contende with you for the signification of this woorde 〈◊〉〈◊〉: for it properly signifieth all affliction or trouble that perteyneth eyther to the body, or to the minde. And it is species mali, a kinde of euill, for Malum doth conteyne not onely vice and sinne, but aduersitie also and affliction.
But to come to your reason: you say, there is n〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 promise in Scripture that we should* 1.14 be fre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rom all aduersitie: and therefore we may not pray to be free from all aduersitie. If this be a good argument then will I also reason thus: there is no promise in Scri∣pture that we should be frée from all sinne: therfore we may not pray that we should be frée from all sinne. There is no promise in Scripture, that we should be frée fro〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 persecution but the contrarie rather, and therefore we may not pray agaynst perse∣cution. Likewise there is no promise that we shall be alwayes deliuered from po∣uertic, and from diuers other particular euils. To be shorte, if this rule and reason be good, then muste we pray for nothing, except first we searche in the Scriptures, whether there be any promise for the same or no.
But you and all Christians ought to vnderstand, that our prayers and faith an∣nexed* 1.15 to them, are grounded vpon these promises. VVhatsoeuer you aske in my name, that will I do. And agayne: If you aske any thing in my name, I will do it. Iohn. 14. And in the. 16. chap. Verily verily, I say vnto you, whatsoeuer you shall aske my father in my* 1.16 n〈1 line〉〈1 line〉me, he will giue it you. Upon these promises is both our fayth and prayers groun∣ded.* 1.17 But for bicause in asking of extern〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ll thinges, we be vncertayne whether they* 1.18 be profitable for vs or no, therefore we aske them with a condition (which although if be not expressed, yet it is alwayes vnderstoode) if it be Gods will: beyng certaynely perswaded, that if those thinges we aske be profitable for vs, we shall obteyne them for his promise sake. And for as much as all good thinges come of God, whether they perteyne to the bodie, or to the soule, and at all times to be deliuered from aduersitie is on〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 of his singular benefites, we may no doubt begge the same at his handes, referring not withstanding the graunting of it to him, who knoweth what is better for vs than we do our selues. If you will spoyle vs of this libertie in praying, you shall not onely bryng prayer into a narrowe roome, but depri〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e vs of one of the greatest and moste singular r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nsolations, that a Christian man can haue in this worlde. We cannot as∣sure our selues that we shall obteyne any externall benefites by prayer at Gods handes: bycause we know not whether that which we aske be profitable for vs or no: and yet God forbidde, that we should cease from praying euen for such thinges. Dauid beyng put out of his kingdome by his Sonne Absolon, was not assured that he* 1.19 should be restored agay〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e, and yet did he pray for it, with this condition, if it pleased God. Christe himselfe prayed to haue the cuppe of his passion remoued from him,* 1.20 which vndoubtedly he knew before would not be graunted vnto him. Many exam∣ples there be in the Psalmes, of prayers made for externall things, of the obteyning whereof the Prophete could not assure himselfe. Well sayth S. Augustine, VVhen* 1.21 thou doest aske of God health of the bodie, if he knowe it be profitable for thee, he will giue it vnto thee: if he giue it not, then it is not profitable for thee to haue it. Therefore we may lawfully aske any externall ben〈1 line〉〈1 line〉fite at Gods hande, bycause he hath willed vs so to do: and the same petition or prayer, is a prayer of fayth, bycause it hath 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 promise in the Scripture to grounde vpon, which is, VVhatsoeuer you shall aske my* 1.22 father in my name, &c. and such like. But the successe of our prayer we must committe to him of whom we aske, as Dauid did.
And why should this manner of speaking séeme so straunge vnto you, do we not
reade in the. 91. Psalme, that a promise is made to those that loue God in this man∣ner.* 1.23 There shall no eui〈1 line〉〈1 line〉l come vnto thee, neyther shall any plague come nighe vnto thy dwelling. Is not this as much as though he should haue sayd, thou shalt euer be defen∣ded from all aduersitie? for as learned interpreters saie, dictione mali omnis generis afflictio∣nes, miserias, & aerumn as complectitur, The Psalmist in that place by this word euil, doth com∣prehende all kinde of afflictions, miseries and calamities: so that you haue here the very wordes expressed, that you finde faulte with in the prayer vsed on Trinitie Sunday. Wherefore they may still remayne without any caution or exception. And I woulde to God, you were as farre from contention as those be that thinke so.
I might here adde and saye, that we are deliuered from all aduersitie after twóo* 1.24 sortes, that is, bodily and spiritually: Bodily, when we are not temporally and exter∣nally afflicted with them. Spiritually, when we are not ouercome by them, or caused to decline from God, or to mistruste in his mercies. That we may praye to be deliue∣red from all aduersitie, in the first signification, I haue proued: that we ought so to do in the latter signification, there is no Christian man that doubteth.
In the collect vpon the twelfth sunday after Trinitie Sunday, and likewyse in one of those which are to be sayde after the offertorie (as it is termed) is done, request is made, that God would giue those thinges, whiche we for our vnworthynesse 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉are not aske: for it carieth with it still the note of the popy she seruile feare, and sauoureth not of that confidence and reuerent fam〈1 line〉〈1 line〉liaritie, that the chyldren of God haue through Christe, with theyr heauenly father, for as we dare not without our sauiour Christe aske so much as a crumme of bread, so there is nothyng which in his name we 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉are not aske, being nedefull for vs, and if it be not nedefull why should we aske it?
I praye you whether doth 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉he prayer of the Pharisey, that so extolled himselfe,* 1.25 or of the Publicane that so humbled himselfe like you better? bylike you preferre the* 1.26 Pharisies prayer, else would you neuer fynde faulte with vs, for acknowledging our owne vnworthynesse, which is the roote and grounde of humilitie, one of the principal ornamentes of prayer. We are not worthy of the least benefite that God bestoweth vpon vs: And therefore dutie requireth that we should not for desert desyre any thing at his handes: and humilitie sayeth, that in desiring we ought to acknowledge our owne vnworthinesse. If a man be desyrous to obteyne anye thing at his father or fre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉des hande, of whome he hath receyued many things, and not recompenced the least, is not this a méete kynde of speache for him to vse? there is something neces∣sary for me to haue, but I dare not aske it at your handes for my vnworthynesse, who haue receyued so much already without any kynde of recompen〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e: surelye this is both the next waye for hym to obteyne that which he desyreth, and a good tóken not of seruile feare, but of true humilitie, and of that due reuerence that a good childe oweth to a moste naturall and louing father. The Publicane durst not come nighe, nor lifte vp his eyes: so did he acknowledge his vnworthynesse, such was his humilitie. And yet you knowe what Christe did pronounce of hym, and what generall rule he groun∣deth* 1.27 vpon that example, euen this. Omnis qui se exaltat &c. Euery one that exalteth hym∣selfe shall be brought lowe. &c. You knowe also what the prodigall sonne sayde to his owne father after his father hadde embraced hym, and receyued hym into mercy.* 1.28 Neque posthac sum dignus qui vocer filius tuus. And I am no more worthy to be called thy sonne.
God forbyd that we should so presume of our selues, that we should shut humi∣litie, and the acknowledging of our owne vnworthinesse, from faythfull and heartye prayer. In that therefore we saye (for our owne vnworthynesse we dare not aske it) we both aske it, and yet with all humilitie acknowledge our owne vnworthinesse: which
if it be spoken vnfainedlye, cannot be but greately accepted of God. And surely this kinde of begging is moste effectuall and it is vsed towardes those to whom we thinke our selues most bounde, and whome (for their benefites bestowed vpon vs) we loue most derely. Neither doth this kynde of prayer sauoure of mistruste, but rather of greate confidence, in the mercy of God, at whose handes we craue those things, which we are of our selues vnworthy to aske, or receiue.
They praye that they may be deliuered from thundring and tempest when no daunger is nigh: that they syng, Benedictus, Nunc dimittis and Magnificat, we knowe not to what purpose, except〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 some of them were ready to die, or except they would celebrate the memorie of the Uirgin, & Iohn 〈◊〉〈◊〉. &c. Thus they prophane the holy scripture.
You mislike also that we should praye to be deliuered from thundring and* 1.29 tempest, when there is no daunger nighe. You broch many straunge opinions, may not we praye to be deliuered from perilles and daungers, except they be present, and knowen to be at hande? where finde you that Christ teacheth vs to saye in our daily prayer libera nos à malo, deliuer vs from euil? VVhat knovve vve vvhen there is any daunger of thundring and light∣ning: haue vve not examples of diuers that haue sodainly perished vvith the same? Is it not therefore necessary to praye for deliueraunce from thunder and lightning, as wel as from other daungers, though they be not present? well, men may see wherevnto this geare tendeth, if* 1.30 they be not blinde. Benedictus also, Nunc dimi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tis and Magnificat, be great motes in your eyes, but you shewe no reason worthy to be answered: only in derision you saye, except some of them were ready to die, or would celebrate the me∣morie of the Virgine, or Iohn Baptiste. As though these Hymnes or Psalmes were not profitable for all men, as the reste of the holy scripture is, but these especially, bicause they conteine the misterie of our salua∣tion, and the praise of God for the same. By this your reason we may not vse any of the Psalmes, vntill we be in lyke case as Dauid was, or other, when they were first made. But I thinke nowe the time is come, when those shall correcte Magnificat, Qui nesciunt quid significat. Truly this your doing is a mere prophanation of holy scriptures.
And if all the prayers were gathered togither, and referred to these twoo heades of Goddes glorie, and of the thyngs which perteyne to this present lyfe, I can make no Geometricall and ex∣acte measure, but verily I beleue, there shal be founde more than a thyrd parte of the prayers which are not Psalmes and textes of scripture, spent in 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉raying for, and praying against the incommo∣dities of this life, which is contrarie to all the argumentes or contentes of the prayers of the church which are 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉et downe in the scripture, and especially of our sauiour Christes prayers, b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the whiche ours ought to be directed, which of seuen petitions bestoweth one onely that wayes: And that these fo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉esayde prayers doe not onel〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 in generall wordes, but by de〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uctyng the commodities and in∣commodities of this lyfe i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉to theyr particular kyndes, & that we praye for the auoyding of those daungers which are noth〈1 line〉〈1 line〉g neare vs, as from lightning and thundring in the myddest of wynter, from stor〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e & tempest, when the weather is most faire, and the seas most calme. &c. It is true that vpon some vrgent calamities prayer may and ought to be fra〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed, which may begge eyther the com∣moditie,
for want whereof the churche is in distresse, or the turning away of that mischiefe, whiche eyther approcheth, or which is already vppon it, but to make those prayers which are for the present tyme and daunger, ordynary and daily prayers, I cannot hitherto see any either scrupture or exam∣ple of the primitiue churche. And here for the symples sake, I will set downe after what sort this abuse crept into the churche.
I thinke you doe confesse and acknowledge that it is lawefull to praye for things whiche perteine to this present lyfe: if you should denie it, I coulde confute you by the prayer that Iacob made to be deliuered from the handes of his brother Esau, Ge, 32. and by sundrye of the Psalmes, and diuers examples in the Gospell, of such as craued the like thinges at Christes handes, and obteined their desyre: howe many such pray∣ers be in the booke of common prayer, it skilleth not, so long as you cannot proue them to be other than godly and necessarie.
If in euery prayer we make some petition for temporall thinges, we doe but imi∣tate and followe that prayer which Christe hath prescribed vnto vs, both as a moste necessarie prayer, and as a rule also to frame and forme all our prayers by. You might as well proue that we ought not so often to aske remission and forgiuenesse of our synnes, bicause of seuen petitions, there is but one onelye bestowed that waye. Howe farre therefore this reason is from godlynesse and reason, the godly and reaso∣nable Reader may i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉dge.* 1.31
All thinges we praye for tende to the glo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ie of God, who is the authour and giuer of all thinges, both eternall and temporal. Things that are to be prayed for, are of two sortes, the o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e temporall, the other eternall: but they both perteyne to the glorie of God though not equally and in lyke manner.
The wyse man sayeth, in the dayes of prosperitie thinke of aduersitie. &c. Christe Math. 24. forewarning his disciples of the external afflictions and euils, which should* 1.32 happen as well before the destruction of Ierusalem, as the ende of the worlde, willeth* 1.33 them to praye before the daunger be present, saying: Praye that your flight bee not in wynter, nor vpon the sabbath, and will you not ha〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e vs to praye for deliueraun〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e from* 1.34 such perilles and daungers wherevnto we be subiect, except they be present? shall we not praye to be deliuered from thundering & lightening, stormeand tempest, plague and pesti∣lence and such like, except we be in manifest perill and daunger, these things beyng in Gods handes to punishe vs with, euen in a moment, and when we thinke it moste vnlike? haue we not sundrie examples of such as haue sodenly perished with thun∣dering and lightening, and some sithence the publishing of your booke? what scripture* 1.35 haue you or authoritie of any learned man to the contrarie? wyll you be credited vp∣your bare worde against so many graue, learned, wyse and godly men, that 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ad the penning and allowing of that booke? surely that were against all order and reason: and it is to great presumption for you with so light and slender reasons to go aboute the ouerthrowe of that, which so many godly and learned men haue both liked and al∣lowed, except they had allowed that which the scriptures do disalowe.
There was one Mamereus bishop of Vienna, which in the tyme of great earthquakes which wer* 1.36 in Fraunce, instituted certayne supplications, which the Grecians and we of them, call the Letany, which concerned that matter, there is no doubt but as other discommodities rose in other countries, they lykewyse had prayers accordingly. Nowe pope Gregor〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e either made hymselfe, or gathered the su〈1 line〉〈1 line〉plications that were made against the calamities of euery countrey, and made of them a great Letany or supplication, as Platina calleth it, & gaue it to be vsed in all churches, which thyng albeit all churches might do for the tyme, in respect of the case of the calamitie which the churches suffered, yet there is no cause why it should be perpetuall, that was ordeyned but for a tyme, and why all landes should praye to be deliuered from the incommodities that some lande hath vin troubled with.
As though we were not at all times subiect to these perilles and daungers: and as though we ought not by the calamitie of other nations, to be moued earnestly to pray against the like, which might also happen to vs.
It is not to be doubted, but that the prayer of the iuste is acceptable to God, and that of his mercy he beyng thereby moued, doth stay from plaguing vs with earth∣quakes, thundring and lightenyng and such like calamities, wherewith he would o∣therwise punish vs.
Truly your reasons be maruelous prophane, and they might as well be allea∣ged,* 1.37 agaynst any of the Psalmes, which all were made at the first vpon some speciall occasion, and yet are profitable for euer, in all states of the Churche to be vsed. Whatsoeuer good and godly prayer, in the time of any common miserie and calami∣tie hath bene inuented, the same is at other times profitable to be vsed in the Church, bycause the like punishments and plagues, are in Gods handes, at all times to exe∣cute vpon sinners, and therefore continually to be prayed agaynst.
The lyke may be sayde of the Gloria patri, and the Athanasius Creede, it was fyrst brought into the Churche, to the inde that men thereby▪ should make an open profession in the Churche of the diuinitie of the sonne of God, agaynst the detestable opinion of Arius and his Disciples, wher∣with at that tyme maruelously swarmed almost the whole Christendome, (*) 1.38 nowe that it hath pleased the Lorde, to quench that fyre, there is no such cause why these thinges shoulde be in the Church, at the least why that Gloria patri, should be so often repeated.
Euen as conuenient now as it was then: for it is as necessarie to maynteyne* 1.39 truth, and make it knowne, as it is to suppresse errours: and yet it is not vnknowne, that euen in our dayes, and in this Churche there haue bene Arians, and I praye God there be none still. I much suspect the matter, not well vnderstanding where∣vnto those glances of yours at Gloria patri▪ and Athanasius Creede do tende. Gloria patri, besides that it conteyneth a briefe confession of the Trinitie, and of the Diuinitie of* 1.40 Iesus Christe, it is a magnifying and glorifying of the Father, the Sonne, and the holy Ghost, thrée persons and one God: and Athanasius creede, is not onely an excel∣lent* 1.41 confutation of Arius heresie, but a playne declaration of the mysterie of the Tri∣nitie, such as is necessary for all Christian men to learne and know: and therefore he that is offended with the ofte repetition or saying of eyther of them, I cannot tell what I should iudge of him. But vndoubtedly there is greate cause why I should sus∣pect him at the leaste of singularitie and vnquietnesse. Shall we not oftentymes re∣hearse the Articles of our beliefe in God the Father, the Sonne, and the holy Ghoste, bycause all menne be now perswaded therein, and none knowne that maketh any doubte? the reason is all one, and preuayleth as well agaynst the repeating of this, as of the other. I thinke your meaning is, that we know to muche, and therefore now we must learne to forget.
Well your authoritie is little, and your reasons much lesse, and therefore they are lyke to stande in Statu quo: and this is moste sure, that harme they do none, but much good, bycause a good thing cannot be to ofte sayde or hearde.
Moreouer to make Benedictus, Magnificat, and Nunc dimittis, ordinarie and dayly prayers,
seemeth to be a thing not so conuenient, considering that they do no more concerne vs, than all other scriptures do, and than doth the Aue Maria, as they called it. For although they were prayers of thankes giuing in Simeon, Zacharie, and the blessed virgin Mary, yet can they not be so in vs, which haue not receiued like benefites, they may be added to the number of Psalmes, and so song as they be, but to make dayly and ordinary prayers of them, is not without some inconuenience & disorder.
Here is no reason shewed, nor any thing answered to that I haue alleadged to proue the contrarie. Your obiection of the Aue Maria is vayne, for it perteyneth to the virgin onely, and is spoken to her persons. But if it were not so: what kynde of rea∣soning call you this? The Church doth not vse daylie in publike prayer to saye Aue Maria, Ergo it may not saye Benedictus, Magnificat or Nunc dimittis, these thrée are moste metest for vs, for they conteine (as I haue sayde in my Answere) the misterie of our saluation and the praise of God for the same, and therefore cannot be to of∣ten either sayde or song.
And so haue I (*) 1.42 aunswered vnto those thinges, whiche are conteyned in the. 202. 203. pages, sauing that I must admonishe the reader, that whereas you will proue that we oughte to haue an ordinary prayer, to be deliuered from daunger of Thunder, Lightninges. &c. bicause there are ex∣amples of certayne that haue bene kylled thereby, you might as well bryng in a prayer, that men maye not haue failes from their horses, maye not fall into the handes of robbers, maye not fall into waters, and a number such more sodayne deathes, wherewith a greater number are taken awaye, than by thunderinges or lighteninges, and such lyke, and so there should be neuer any ende of beg∣ging these earthly commodities, which is contrary to the forme of prayer, appoynted by our Sa∣uiour Christe.
The punishement of God by thundering and lightening, is more notorious and terrible, not by any helpe of man to be repelled: where as the other thinges that you speake of, come oftentymes and moste commonly through negligence, wylfulnes, vnrulines, to much boldnes, vndiscretenes of the parties themselues: besydes this there are ordinary meanes to auoyde them, and yet I thinke it moste conuenient, that we should praye against those euilles, and so doth the Church daylye in the laste collect, vsed in the morning prayer: which thing also is most consonant to the Lords prayer, petitions to the lyke ende and purpose, being there expressed.
And wheras you alledge the petition of the Lordes prayer (deliuer vs from euill) to proue this prayer against thunder, &c. besydes that, all the commodities and discommodities of this lyfe are prayed for, and prayed against in that petition, whereby we desyre our dayly bread, it is very strange to apply that to the thunder, that is vnderstanded of the Deuill, as the article 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 doth declare, and it is a marueylous conclusion that for so much, as we ought daylye and ordinarily, and publikely desyre to be deliuered from the Deuill, Ergo we ought dayly, & ordinarily, & publikely d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣syre to be deliuered from thunder: it is one thing to correct Magnificat, and an other thing to shewe the abuse of it. And therefore I fee no cause why you should vse this allusion betwene Magnificat and significat, vnles it be for that you purposing to set out all your learning in this booke, would not so much as forget an olde rotten prouerbe, which trotted amongst the monkes in their cloysters, of whome I may iustly saye which Tully sayd in an other thing, Nec quicquam ingenium potest mo∣nasterium: that is, the cloyster could neuer bring forth any wittie thing, for here although there bee Rythmus, yet it is sine ratione.* 1.43
All men may sée that you hunt for contention and strife, and not for the truthe,* 1.44 otherwise you would be more vpright and sincere in your dealing. The effect of my Answere to the Admonition is, that for asmuch as this worde malum in the last pe∣tition of the Lordes prayer, doth conteyne all kinde of euill, whether it perteyne to
the body or to the minde, therefore all such prayers as are for our deliuerance, from externall perilles and daungers, being grounded vpon that petition, are lawfull, whe∣ther they be daylie vsed or otherwise, in whiche sorte and kinde those prayers are, wherein we desire to be deliuered from thundring and lightning, the daungers ther∣of beyng so frequente, and so terrible.
And whereas you say, that the worde Euill, doth there signifie the Diuell, & there∣fore not aduersitie, & externall euill that happeneth to the bodie, you shall vnderstand your errour, by the expositions both of the olde and new wryters. Cyprian in his ex∣position vpon the Lordes prayer interpreting these wordes sayeth thus. In the laste* 1.45 place we put. But deliuers vs from euill: comprehending all kinde of aduersities, vvhich the enimie vvorketh agaynst vs in this vvorlde. And a little after: But when we say, deliuer vs from euill, there remayneth nothing which ought further to be de∣sired, seyng we pray at once for the protection of God agaynst euill, which being obteyned, we stande secure and safe, against all thinges which the worlde and Deuill worketh.
Augustine likewise in his Epistle ad Probam viduam in number. 121. and Cap. 11. ex∣poundeth* 1.46 the same wordes in like sorte. VVhen we say deliuer vs from euill: we admo∣nish to consider that we are not as yet in that good (estate) where we shall suffer no euill: and this which is last placed in the Lordes prayer, is extended so farre, and so playnely, that a Christian man moued with any kinde of tribulation, may in this petition sigh, in this shedde his teares, beginne herein, continue herein, and end his prayer herein.
M Bucer expounding the same wordes in his Commentaries vpō the. 6. of Ma∣thew,* 1.47 sayth. Satan is therefore called a tempter, bicause he doth tempte and exercise vs: especially labouring for this, that he may withdrawe vs from a right fayth in God: but if he cannot bring that to passe (such is his hatred) then he doth reioyce in afflicting and mole∣sting vs, with externall euils, as we reade that he hath done against Iob and other holy men. And a little after: VVherefore for as much as Satan is (as it were our tormenter, by whose ministerie God doth also outwardly exercise vs) in this respect, the prayer, to be deliue∣red from bodily euils, is included in this last petition. In like manner doth Musculus expounde the same: and do you thinke that these men did not vnderstand their Pater noster? You see therefore that although the worde signifie the Diuell, yet it nothing hindreth my interpretation, but maketh much for it, bicause the Diuell is the Author of all euill, that cōmeth either to the body or to the soule, and therfore beyng deliuered from him, there is no cause why we should be any longer carefull.
There is no abuse of Magnificat as yet shewed, but there is a very vnlearned rea∣son in the Admonition put, why it should not be vsed, to the Answere whereof you haue not replied, and therefore I may iustly say of their correcting of Magnificat, that which I haue sayde: and the Prouerbe is méete for such vnskilfull persons: but your childish or rather prophane iestes and scoffes be not séeming for a Diuine, and him that would he counted so greatly learned and mortified.
As these are diuers things more than ought to be conueniently, so want there some things in the prayers: there are prayers set forth to be sayd in the common calamities, & vniuersall scourges of the realme, as plague, famine, &c. And in deede so it ought to be, by the worde of God, ioyned with a publike faste cōmaunded, not only when we are in any calamitie, but also when any the churches rounde about vs, or in any countrie receyue any generall plague, or grieuous chastisement at the Lordes hand. But as such prayers are needefull whereby we begge release from our distresses, so there ought to be as necessarily prayers of thankes giuing, when we haue receyued those things, at the Lordes hande, which wee asked in our prayers. And thus much touching the matter of the* 1.48 prayers, eyther not altogither sounde, or else to much or to little.
If any thing lacke in the booke, that derogateth nothing from that which is good & godly in the same: neyther is it any cause why any man should depraue it or make such a stirre and schisme in the Churche for it.
It is méete that we should as well giue thankes for the benefites receyued, as to pray for the receyuing of them: neyther is the booke voyde of any suche kinde of prayers. These be vut verie small quarels agaynst the booke, and slender faultes (if they were faults) to make so great a schisme for. But as I sayde with S. Augustine,* 1.49 agaynst the Authours of the Admonition, so say I vnto you. If thou runnest through all the wordes of the holy prayers, I suppose thou shalt finde nothing which the Lordes prayer doth not conteyne: therfore we may in other wordes speake the same things in our prayers, but we may not speake contrarie things. You haue not as yet, neyther will you euer be able to shewe one lyne in any prayer conteyned in that booke, to be contrarie to the worde of God, or not consonant or agréeable vnto the same. And this dealing of yours agaynst it vpon so weake reasons (or rather none at all) argueth that you séeke only contention, and that your chiefe quarell is at the mainteyners of the booke, and not at the matter.
Concerning the forme, there is also to be misliked: a great cause whereof is the following of the forme vsed in Poperie, agaynst which I haue before spoken. For whylest that seruice was set in many poynts as a patterne of this, it commeth to passe, that in steade of such prayers as the pri∣mitiue Churches haue vsed, and those that be reformed nowe vse, we haue diuerse (a) 1.50 short curtes & shreddings, which may be better called wishes than prayers. And that no man think that this is some ydle fansie, and that it is no matter of weight what forme of prayer we vse, so that the praiers be good, it must be vnderstanded, that as it is not sufficient to preach the same doctrine whiche our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles haue preached, (b) 1.51 vnlesse the same forme of doctrine, and of teaching be likewise kept: so is it not ynough that the matter of our prayer be such as is in the word of God, vnlesse that the forme also be agreeable vnto the formes of prayers in the scripture. Nowe we haue no such formes in the scripture as that we shoulde pray in two or (c) 1.52 three lynes, and then after hauing read a while some other thing come and pray as much more, and so to the. xx. and. xxx. tune, with pawses betweene.
You haue verie aptly answered your selfe, though you woulde séeme to make it an obiection, and to wipe it away: for vndoubtedly when you thought that other men woulde count this d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uise of yours an ydle fansie, you thought truely, and your owne thought therein condemneth you. But I adde that it is not onely an ydle fansie, but an vntrue surmise: for first, which be those prayers that the primitiue Churche vsed, in steade whereof we haue but short cuttes and shreddings? Why doe you not name them? Will you still speake without proofe? Will you rayse vp a generall slaunder, and shew no particulars?
Touching your charging vs with following of the forme vsed in Poperie, I haue an∣swered before, where you haue in like maner obiected it, and onely obiected it.
Howe proue you that it is not sufficient, to preache the same doctrine that our Sauiour* 1.53 Christ and his Apostles haue preached, vnlesse the same forme of teaching bee lykewyse kepte? For I take that to be an ydle fansie, and vtterly vntrue. I am perswaded that if the same doctrine be preached, the maner and forme of preaching is left for euerie one to vse, according to the gift that God hath giuen vnto him, as he shall thinke it to be most expedient to edifying: but this is an olde fansie of yours, partly grounded vpon an ar∣rogant opinion of your selfe, whose maner and forme of preaching you woulde binde all men: vnto partly of emulation and enuie, bicause you haue perceyued other mens maner and kinde of preaching, to haue béene much better lyked than yours. But to let this passe, Christ and his Apostles did not vsually pray before nor after their Ser∣mons, or at the least it is not expressed in Scripture that they did: they when they preached did not vsually take any one certaine place or portion of Scripture to intreat of: and it is manifest that they vsed not any vniforme maner of preaching, but they spake as God gaue them vtterance: neyther did they labour or studie for their Ser∣mons,
but preached as present occasion serued: and therefore for my part, vntill I heare verie good reasons of this newe deuise, I must néedes accompt it a verie fonde imagination.
Shewe me wherein the forme of our prayers doth differ from the maner and forme of praying conteyned in the Scripture? Or shewe me in the Scripture, any prescript forme of publike and dayly prayers commaunded, the Lordes prayer onely excepted. Or let me vnderstande what scripture you can alledge why in the publike congregation, we may not somtime pray, and sometimes reade the scriptures: & what do we else in the whole order of our seruice? will you still more and more vtter your contempt agaynst God, against his Church against a most pure and godly kynde of publike prayer and seruice, and that with such vnreuerend speaches? But I omit thē, it is inough to haue noted thē in the margent, for they are cōfutation to thēselues.
If a man should come to a Prince and keepe such order in making his petitions vnto him, that hauing very many things to demaunde, after he had demaunded one thing he woulde stay a long tyme, and then demaunde another, and so the thirde, the Prince might well thinke, that eyther he came to aske, before he knew what he had neede of, or that he had forgotten some piece of his sute, or that he were distracted in his vnderstanding, or some other such like cause of the disorder of his sup∣plication. And therefore how much more conuenient were it, that according to the maner of the re∣formed Churches: first the minister with an humble and generall confession of faults, should desire the assistance of the Lord, for the fruteful handling and receyuing of the worde of God, and then af∣ter that we haue heard the Lorde speake vnto vs in his worde, by his minister, the Church should likewise speake vnto the Lorde, and present all those petitions and sutes at once, both for the whole Church, and for the Prince, and all other estates which shall be thought needfull.
As much differencs as there is betwixt man and God: so farre is your similitude* 1.54 from prouing your purpose: except you will admit the like similitude vsed by the Pa∣pists, to proue praying to Saints: for the one hath as muche strength to proue ani〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 thing as the other, and yet neither of them both worth a rush. And here you doe in∣iurie to God, to compare him to an earthly Prince, especially in this behalfe. For what Prince would not thinke himselfe abused, if a man shoulde dayly and hourely sue vnto him? But it is not so with God: for we haue a commaundement to pray continually. Luke. 18. 1. Thes. 5. and he doth not respect the forme of wordes, but the affection of the heart. And in verie déede it is most conuenient that reading of the scriptures and praying should be intermingled.
All the scripture that you haue to alledge is the reformed Churches, let other men thinke what they will, I verily beléeue that in our maner and kinde of worshipping God, in our publike and common prayers, there is no cause why we shoulde thinke our selues one whit inferiour vnto them: they also or the must part of them, haue al∣lowed the same order of ours, at what time the like contention was about the same booke, amōg our English mē which were in Q. Maries time banished for the gospel.
And if any will say that there are short prayers found in the Acts, it may be answered that S. Luke doth not expresse the whole prayers at large, but only set downe the summes of them & their chiefe poyntes. And further it may be answered, that alwayes those prayers were continued togy∣ther, and not cut off, and shred into diuerse small pieces.
Howe knowe you that S. Luke doth not expresse the whole prafers at large, but onely set down the sums of thē & their chief points? What scripture haue you that teacheth you so to think? & if this be a sufficient answere to say, the scripture hath not expressed the whole. &c.
Why is it not also a sufficient answere for me to that which foloweth, that the scrip∣ture* 1.55 hath not expressed any certaine, or determinate forme of publike prayer to be vsed in all Churches (as in déede it hath not) but onely in the Lordes prayer giuen certaine generall poynts, according to the whiche all our prayers must be framed? Surely your fansie is strong, but your arguments be excéeding weake. For tell mée I pray you, where haue you in the whole newe testament (the Lordes prayer onely excepted) any forme of publike prayer vsed in the Church described? If you cannot shewe this, why do you so childishly dallie?
Another fault is that all the people are appoynted in diuerse places, to say after the Minister, whereby not onely the tyme is vnprofitably wasted, and a confused voyce of the people, one spea∣king after another caused, but an opinion bred in their heades, that those onely be theyr prayers which they say and pronounce with their owne mouthes. Which causeth them to giue the lesse heede to the rest of the prayers which they rehearse not after the Minister, which notwithstanding are as well their prayers, as those which they pronounce after the Minister, otherwise than the or∣der which is left vnto the Church, of God doth beare. For God hath ordeyned the Minister to this ende, that as in publike meetings, he onely is the mouth of the Lorde from him to the people, euen so he ought to be(*) 1.56 onely the mouth of the people from them vnto the Lorde, and that all the people should attende to that which is sayde by the Minister, and in the ende both declare their consent to that which is sayde, and their hope that it shall so be and come to passe whiche is prayed, by the worde Amen. As S. Paule declareth in the Epistle to the Corinthians. And Iustine Martyr* 1.57 sheweth to haue bene the custome of the Churches in his time.
God be thanked, that the booke is so per〈1 line〉〈1 line〉te, that you are constreyned for sauing your credite with your Disciples, thus triflingly to deale with it: you vnchristianly say, that the time is vnprofitably wasted, which is spent in prayer: you imagine that of the people, that neuer entered into their thoughts: you call it a confused voyce, that is a most acceptable sounde vnto the Lorde: and if to surmise or to imagine be sufficient, then may we imagine your doctrine to tende to the contempt of prayer, and the ouer∣thwarting of all good and godly order. But you must knowe that there is more speci∣all cause, why the people should rather reherse after the Minister those things that the booke appoynteth them so to do, than the other prayers, bicause they conteyne a gene∣rall confession of sinnes, which all Christians togither as well in voyce, as in heart, ought to confesse: neyther doth the booke prescribe the people to say any thing after the Minister (the Lordes prayer after the Communion onely excepted) but these ge∣nerall* 1.58 and publike confessions: and yet if it did, I sée not howe you can iustly therefore reproue it. Musculus expounding these wordes, Et cum bymnum cecinissent. &c. thinketh it not vnlikely ipsum ita praeloquutū esse, vt verba ipsius ab illis sint excepta & vicissim reddita. That Christ did in that order speake before his Disciples, that they repeated his wordes af∣ter him. Whereby it appeareth that he was so farre from thinking this order to bée on vnprofitable wasting of tyme, that he doubteth not to ascribe it to our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles. But if it be such an vnprofitable wasting of tyme, to rehearse prayer af∣ter the Minister, how happeneth it, that you and all other your partners that be prea∣chers, vse to cause the people to pray after you in your Sermons? Is it lawfull for you so to do in the Pulpite, and is it not lawfull for the Minister to do the same in the Churche? Belike nothing is well done that you do not your selues, or are not the Authours of.
But here I cannot omit that which you so boldly affirme, of the Minister, whom* 1.59 you say God hath ordeyned to be the onely mouth of the people from them vnto the Lorde in publike meetings: are you of that opinion, that the people may ioyne with the minister in pronouncing publike prayers, at no time? Or that they should onely attende to that
which is sayde by the Minister, and in the ende giue their consent by this woorde Amen? Hath God ordeyned this? I pray you where finde you this ordinance? Sure I am that the place by you alledged doth not proue it. For although it be true that the Mi∣nister is the mouth of the people to God, yet doth it not followe, that hee is the onely mouth of the people vnto the Lorde▪ And although we reade that the people vsed to giue their consent vnto the prayer pronounced of the Minister, by this worde Amen: yet if you will hereof conclude that they ought onely to say Amen: and at no time ioyne as well in voyce as in heart, with the Minister (which you séeme to affirme in saying he is the onely mouth) then besides the weaknesse of your conclusion, the prac∣tise of the Church of God will sufficiently confute you. Wée reade that when Pe∣ter and John were let go, after their examination before the Priestes and Elders, for healing the man that was lame from his mothers wombe, they came to the rest of his Disciples, and declared to them what had happened, and when they hearde that,* 1.60 they lift vp their voyces to God with one accorde, and sayde, Lorde thou art God, &c. So that the Minister here was not the onely mouth of the people, but the whole companie that was assembled ioyned togither in this prayer, lifted vp their voyces and spake with one accorde. And surely it is not vnlike, that they vsed herein that order which you before accounted an vnprofitable wasting of time: for séeing that this prayer was framed according to the present occasion, I am perswaded that the rest did rather re∣peate the wordes after him that conceyued the prayer, than that they all miraculously ioyned vpon the sodeyne in one and the same for me of wordes. Plinie in an Epistle to* 1.61 Traiane the Emperour concerning the Christians, wryteth that their custome was stato die ante lucem conuenire carmen{que} Christo quasi Deo dicere, secum inuicem, &c. to meete to∣gither early at an appoynted day, and to sing togither a song vnto Christ as vnto God. Chrysostome goyng about to proue that in some respect there is no difference betwixt the Priest and people, vseth this for an example, that in publike prayer they somtime ioyne togither. His wordes be these, Quin & precibus. &c. A man may also see the people* 1.62 to offer many prayers togither for those that are possessed & penetenciaries (as they term them) for common supplications are made both of the Priest, and of them, and they all say one prayer, &c. And again, quid miraris si cum sacerdote populus loquitur? vvhy dost thou maruell if the people speake togither vvith the priest, &c. You can not be ignorant (I am sure) that Basill likeneth the sounde of men, women, and chil∣dren praying in the Church, to the roring of the waues agaynste the Sea bankes. This* 1.63 might you haue séene also euen in that place of Iustine Martyr whiche you quote: for* 1.64 there describing the liturgie, he sayth, that after the exhortation or Sermon, Omnes surgimus & compre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉amur, we do all rise and pray togither, &c. This you skipped ouer, and tooke that which followed, bycause it made more for your purpose: for indéede Iustine doth describe both, that is both the prayer of the whole Church togither, and of the Bishop alone the people giuing their consent by this worde Amen. I néede not to vse mo testimonies, these may suffice to declare by the practise of the Church, that the Mi∣nister is not the only mouth of the people in publike meetings, which you haue only set downe without any proofe, for what purpose, you knowe best your selfe, surely I cannot con∣iecture, except it be that the people should wholy depende vpon the Ministers wordes, and as it were hang vpon his lippes, which where vnto it woulde in tyme grow, wise men can consider.
But what néede I to stande so long vppon this poynt, séeing you your selfe af∣terwarde* 1.65 affirme as muche▪ For finding fault with the order of singing Psalmes syde by syde, you haue these wordes. From whence soeuer it came, it cannot be good, con∣sydering that when it is graunted that all the people maye prayse God (as it is in singing of Psalmes) there this ought not to be restreyned vnto a fewe, and where it is lawfull both with heart and voyce, to sing the whole Psalme, there it is not meete that they shoulde sing but the one halfe with their heart and voyce, and the other with their heart onely. For where they may both with heart and voyce sing, there the heart is not ynough. Than the which, what can be more contrarie to this, that the Minister ought to be the onely mouth of the people to the Lorde? For here you affirme that all the people may prayse God, and sing Psalmes,
not with heart onely, but with voyce, and so to be their owne mouth vnto the Lorde. Howe you can reconcile this géere I sée not: sure I am that truth is not contrarie to it selfe.
Although these blottes in the common prayer be such, as may easily enough appeare vnto any, which is not wedded to a preiudicate opinion, and that there is no great difficultie in this matter,(*) 1.66 yet I knowe that thys treatise of prayer will be subiect to many reprehensions, and that there will not be wanting some probable colours also whereby these things may be defended, if men will set themselues to striue and to contende: yet for the desyre that I haue that these things should be amended) and for the instruction of the symple, which are studious of the truth, I haue beene bolde to vtter that whiche I thinke, not doubting also but that the lyght of the truth shall be able to scatter all those mystes of reasons, which shall go about to darken the clearnesse thereof.
Surely if the blottes be so manifest as you woulde séeme to make them, it is not wisely done of you so slenderly to passe them ouer.
You do well to thinke that this treatise of yours touching prayer will be subiect to* 1.67 many reprehensions: and why shoulde it not? What is there in it worthie of com∣mendation? What learning? what reason? what truth? what godlinesse? ex∣cept vaine wordes be learning: fancies reason: lyes truth: contempt of good lawes and orders, with vnséemely iestes, bée godlynesse: for what is there else in thys treatise? Truely if you had not settled your selfe to striue and to contende, and had not béene desyrous to peruert the simple, rather than to instruct them, you would neuer vpon so weake a ground & with so féeble reasons, or rather vaine fansyes haue gone about to depraue so worthie a Booke: In the whiche as I haue sayde before, you are not able to shewe any thing, especially touching the order, maner, and mat∣ter of prayer, that is not consonant to the worde of God. Neyther haue you for all that is spoken against the forme of prayer, alledged one text of Scripture, or one sen∣tence of any auncient or late wryter: and doe you thinke that men will beléeue you vpon your bare wordes, agaynst so many Martyrs and learned men, as haue al∣lowed and doe allowe that booke? Your credite is not so greate as you thinke it is: and that which you haue, when you are accordingly detected, will vtterly vanishe and fade away.
A prop〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 excus〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
Rom. 8. 26 1. Tim. 1. 2
Damasus the first in∣uentor of this stuffe, vvell fur∣thered by Gregory the seuenth.
Iustinus Martyr.
Con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Carth. 3 Can. 23.
Damasus added Glori〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Patri, &c▪
Gregory made the Le∣tanie.
Augustine.
A sparing re∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉trayne.
The Repliet his wordes contrary to his deedes.
Sup̄ra Cap. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. t〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e 13. Diuisi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
The aduersa∣ries hope is in contention.
The collect of Trinitie Sunday.
The argu∣mēt retorted.
Our prayers and fayth are grounded vpē promises.
Io〈1 line〉〈1 line〉n. 14.
Iohn. 16.
A condition 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nnexed to pe∣titio〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s for ex∣ternal things.
〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Samuel. 15.
Mattb. 26.
Augustine.
Iobn. 16.
Psal〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. 91
Deliuerance from aduersi∣tie of twoo sortes.
Humiliti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 prayer.
Luc. 18.
Luc. 18.
Luc. 15.
Prayer to be deliuered from thunder, good.
Magnificar & Nunc dimittis &c.
All things to be prayed for tende to the glorie of God.
Prayers be∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 daunger.
E〈1 line〉〈1 line〉cle. 11.
Math. 24.
The presum〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 tion of the Re plier.
Plat. cap. Leo.
The reason vsed agaynst the Letanie is of the same force agaynst the psalmes.
A weake reason.
The manife∣station and maintenance of truth as necessary as the suppressiō of errours.
Gloria patri.
Athanasius Creede.
Very slender lye: and if you had sayd lesse of them, you had saide nothing 〈◊〉〈◊〉 all.
Ryme with∣out reason.
The interpre∣tation of the last petition.
Cyprian.
Augustinus.
Bucer.
Great faultes in little matters.
August. Epist. 121.
These are 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣seemely terme▪ for Godly pray∣ers, be they re∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 so sho〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t
Where learn you that▪
The Lordes prayer is not much more: the prayers of the publican, of Ste∣uen, & of Christ on the Crosse, are much lesse.
The fensie of the 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉plyer concerning the forme of prea∣ching.
The dissimili∣tude of the re∣plyers simili∣tude.
The scripture hath not pre∣scribed any forme of pub∣like prayer▪
Vntruth▪
1. Cor. 14. 1. Apol. pro Christianis.
Muscul. in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Math.
The ministes not the onely mouth of the people.
Act. 4.
Plinius Epist. lib. 10.
Chrysost. hom. 18. in. 2. Cor.
Basil. Hexam.
4. Apol. 2.
The replyer contrarie to himselfe. Pag. 163, in the middest.
Conscientia 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lle testes.
The pith of the replie con∣cerning pray∣er.