The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

T. C. Pag. 108. Sect. 4.

Concerning the forme, there is also to be misliked: a great cause whereof is the following of the forme vsed in Poperie, agaynst which I haue before spoken. For whylest that seruice was set in many poynts as a patterne of this, it commeth to passe, that in steade of such prayers as the pri∣mitiue Churches haue vsed, and those that be reformed nowe vse, we haue diuerse (a) 1.1 short curtes & shreddings, which may be better called wishes than prayers. And that no man think that this is some ydle fansie, and that it is no matter of weight what forme of prayer we vse, so that the praiers be good, it must be vnderstanded, that as it is not sufficient to preach the same doctrine whiche our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles haue preached, (b) 1.2 vnlesse the same forme of doctrine, and of teaching be likewise kept: so is it not ynough that the matter of our prayer be such as is in the word of God, vnlesse that the forme also be agreeable vnto the formes of prayers in the scripture. Nowe we haue no such formes in the scripture as that we shoulde pray in two or (c) 1.3 three lynes, and then after hauing read a while some other thing come and pray as much more, and so to the. xx. and. xxx. tune, with pawses betweene.

Io. Whitgifte.

You haue verie aptly answered your selfe, though you woulde séeme to make it an obiection, and to wipe it away: for vndoubtedly when you thought that other men woulde count this d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uise of yours an ydle fansie, you thought truely, and your owne thought therein condemneth you. But I adde that it is not onely an ydle fansie, but an vntrue surmise: for first, which be those prayers that the primitiue Churche vsed, in steade whereof we haue but short cuttes and shreddings? Why doe you not name them? Will you still speake without proofe? Will you rayse vp a generall slaunder, and shew no particulars?

Touching your charging vs with following of the forme vsed in Poperie, I haue an∣swered before, where you haue in like maner obiected it, and onely obiected it.

Howe proue you that it is not sufficient, to preache the same doctrine that our Sauiour* 1.4 Christ and his Apostles haue preached, vnlesse the same forme of teaching bee lykewyse kepte? For I take that to be an ydle fansie, and vtterly vntrue. I am perswaded that if the same doctrine be preached, the maner and forme of preaching is left for euerie one to vse, according to the gift that God hath giuen vnto him, as he shall thinke it to be most expedient to edifying: but this is an olde fansie of yours, partly grounded vpon an ar∣rogant opinion of your selfe, whose maner and forme of preaching you woulde binde all men: vnto partly of emulation and enuie, bicause you haue perceyued other mens maner and kinde of preaching, to haue béene much better lyked than yours. But to let this passe, Christ and his Apostles did not vsually pray before nor after their Ser∣mons, or at the least it is not expressed in Scripture that they did: they when they preached did not vsually take any one certaine place or portion of Scripture to intreat of: and it is manifest that they vsed not any vniforme maner of preaching, but they spake as God gaue them vtterance: neyther did they labour or studie for their Ser∣mons,

but preached as present occasion serued: and therefore for my part, vntill I heare verie good reasons of this newe deuise, I must néedes accompt it a verie fonde imagination.

Shewe me wherein the forme of our prayers doth differ from the maner and forme of praying conteyned in the Scripture? Or shewe me in the Scripture, any prescript forme of publike and dayly prayers commaunded, the Lordes prayer onely excepted. Or let me vnderstande what scripture you can alledge why in the publike congregation, we may not somtime pray, and sometimes reade the scriptures: & what do we else in the whole order of our seruice? will you still more and more vtter your contempt agaynst God, against his Church against a most pure and godly kynde of publike prayer and seruice, and that with such vnreuerend speaches? But I omit thē, it is inough to haue noted thē in the margent, for they are cōfutation to thēselues.

Notes

• (a) 1.1

  These are 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣seemely terme▪ for Godly pray∣ers, be they re∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 so sho〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t
• (b) 1.2

  Where learn you that▪
• (c) 1.3

  The Lordes prayer is not much more: the prayers of the publican, of Ste∣uen, & of Christ on the Crosse, are much lesse.
• * 1.4

  The fensie of the 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉plyer concerning the forme of prea∣ching.