The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

T. C. Pag. 105. Sect. 2.

Likewyse 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉or marriage he commeth backe agayne into the body of the Churche, and for bap∣tisme vnto the Churche doore, what comelynesse, what decencie, what edifying is thys? Decen∣cie

(I saye) in running and trudging from place to place: edifying, in standing in that place, and a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ter that sorte, where he can worst be hearde and vnderstanded. S. Luke sheweth that in the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Churche bothe the prayers and preachings, and the whole exercise of religion was done otherwyse. For he sheweth howe S. Peter sytting amongest the rest, to the ende he myghte be the better heard, rose, and not that onely, but that he stoode in the middest of the people, that hys voyce mighte as muche as mighte be, come indifferently to all theyr ear〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s, and so standing bothe 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and preached. Nowe if it be sayde for the Chapters and Letanie, there is commaundement giuen th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t they should be read in the body of the Church, in deede it is true, and thereof is easily perceyued thys disorder which is in saying the rest of the prayers, partly in the hither end, & partly in y^e 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉urther end of the Chauncel: for 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eeing that those are read in the body of the Church, that the people may both heare & vnderst〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nd what is read, what should be the cause why the rest should be read further of. Unlesse it be, that eyther those thyngs are not to be hearde of them, or at the least not so necessarie for them to be heard, as the other whych are recited in the body or middest of the Churche. And if it be further sayde, that the booke leaueth that to the discretion of the Ordina∣rie, and that he may reforme it, if there be any thyng amisse, then it is easily answered agayne, that besides that it is agaynst reason, that the commoditie and edifying of the Churche should depende vpon the pleasure of one man, so that vpon hys eyther good or euill aduyse & discretion, it should be well or euill with the Church: Besydes thys (I sa〈1 line〉〈1 line〉) we s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e by experience of the disorders which ar〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 in many Churches and Dioceses in thys behalfe, howe that if it were lawfull to commit such authoritie vnto one man, yet that it is not safe so to doe, considering that they haue so euill q〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tten them selues in their charges, and that in a matter the inconuenience whereof is so easily seene, and so easily reformed, there is notwithstanding so great and so generall an abuse.

Io. Whitgifte.

These be passing weyghtie arguments to ouerthrowe the booke, and come from a* 1.1 déepe and profounde iudgemente: If I shoulde vse the lyke, you woulde wype them away with scoffing. The booke appoynteth, that the persons to be married shall come into the body of the Churche with their f〈1 line〉〈1 line〉iendes and neighbours there to be married: and what faulte can you finde in this? Is not the middest of the Churche the moste méete place for suche a matter? The booke speaketh neyther of the comming backe of the minister, nor his going forwarde, these be but your iestes: and yet muste he goe both backwarde and forwarde, if he wil eyther come into the Church, or go out of it. For baptisme, y^e booke appoynteth no place, but bicause there is no iust cause knowne why the fon〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e should be remoued, therefore the minister dothe stande where that is placed, whiche is somewhere in one place, somewhere in another, for I know diuers plac〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s where it is in the middest of the Churche, some place where it is in the ne∣thermost parte, I knowe no place where it standeth at the Churche doore. And ther∣fore in saying that for baptisme the minister goeth to the Churche doore, you doe but coun∣terfeyte.

No man denieth but that bothe praying and preaching. &c. ought to be in that place where it may be best heard of all: and therefore the booke dothe prudently leaue it to the discretion of the Bishop. But the middest is not the fittest place for that pur∣pose: He that standeth in the middest of the Churche hathe some behynde him, some before him, and some of eche syde of him, those whiche be behinde, or on the sides, can not so well heare, as those that be before, as experience teacheth in Ser∣mons at the Spittle, at the Crosse in Paules, and other places. Wherefore in my opinion that place in the Churche is moste fittest, bothe for praying and preaching, where the minister may haue the people before him, except the Churche be so great, and the people so many, that he cannot be heard of them, then there ought to be some regarde thereof.

S. Luke telleth what S. Peter dyd in the congregation, he dothe not prescribe any general rule: Euery circumstance that is tolde in the scriptures, is not streight∣way to be made an inuiolable rule of all men to be followed. The place is not ma∣terial, so that it be suche as the people may well heare and vnderstande that whiche is read and preached.

Concerning the lessons whiche are to be read, the booke prescribeth no place, only it willeth the minister to stande and to turne him so, as he may best be heard of all suche as be present. And are you offended at that? neyther doth y^• booke appoynt any certein place for the Le〈1 line〉〈1 line〉anie to be sayde in, and therfore you do but dally and trifle.

The Ordinarie is the méetest man to whose discr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tion those things sh〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uld be le〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t: both for his learning & wisdome, and also that there may be one vniforme or 〈◊〉〈◊〉 his diocesse: if any Ordinarie be carelesse in such matters, if you wil complaine of him, I am sure you shal be heard. But your delight & pleasure is to be gyrding at Bishops, though the cause be forged.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Weighty rea∣sons agaynst the booke.