The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

The causes of Archbishops and of their preroga∣tiues, and the estate of the olde Bishops, (assigned by T. C.) examined.

Chap. 5. the. 1. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 94. Sect 4.

Now I haue shewed howe little those things which M. Doctor bringeth, make for proofe of that wherfore he alleageth them, I will for the better vnderstanding of the reader se〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e downe what were the causes why the Archbishops were fyrst ordeyned▪ and what were their preroga∣tiues and preheminences before other Bishops, and the estate also of the olde Bishoppes, which lyued in those tymes, wherein although there were great corruptions, yet the Churche was 〈◊〉〈◊〉 some tollerable estate, to the intent it may appeare, partly how 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 we haue of them now, & partly also howe great difference there is betwene oures and them. O〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the names of Metropoli∣tanes it hath bene spoken, howe that he shoulde not be called the chiefe o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 priests, or the high priest, or Bishop of Bishops: Now I will set downe their office and power, whiche they hadde more than the Bishoppes.

Io. Whitgifte.

If you haue no more truthe in your words folowing, than y〈1 line〉〈1 line〉u vtter in the begin∣ning of these: or if you deale no soundlyer in them, than you haue done in the other, M. Doctors proofes shall serue the turne. But it is in vayne to answere wordes, I will therfore come to your matter.

Chap. 5. the. 2. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 94. Sect. 5.

In the Councel of Antioche it appeareth that the Bishop of the Metropolitane seat, called (a) 1.1 * 1.2 Synodes, & propounded the matters which were to be handled, &c. The archbishop doth not 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ew call Synodes, but the Prince doth, forasmuche as there is no conuocation without a parliament, and he dothe not propounde the matters, and gather the voyces, but an other chosen, whiche is called prolocutor: therefore in the respecte that an Archbishop, and Metropolitane was tyrst or∣deyned, we haue no neede of an Archebishop or Metropolitane. Agayne, an other cause also ap∣peareth there (b) 1.3 whiche was to see that the Bishops kepte them selues within their owne di〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 cesse, and brake not into an others Diocesse, but fyrste this maye be doone withoute an Arche∣bishoppe, and then it is not doone of the Archebishop himselfe, giuing licences vnto the wande∣ring ministers to goe thoroughout not so fewe as a dosen diocesse: therefore the office of an arch∣bishop is not necessarie in this respecte, and if it were, yet it muste be other than it is nowe.

Io. Whitgifte.

There is no Councell more flatte agaynst you, than is that Councell of An∣tioche, nor any Canon that ouerthroweth your assertion more directely than that ninth Canon, the woordes whereof I haue repeated before, but youre vntrue alle∣gation in a manner compelleth me to repeate them agayne, that the Reader may see before his eyes, what truthe there is in your doings. And although it do per∣teyne to the office of the Metropolitane or Archebishoppe to call Synodes, yet is there not one woorde thereof in this Cannon, nor yet of propounding any matters in Synodes, or of seyng Bishoppes keepe themselues within theyr owne diocesse, as you doe here auouche without all truthe: and notwithstanding as I sayde before, those things doe perteine to the office of the Archebishoppe: yet if they were also com∣prehended in that Canon, it were rather a confirmation of that office, than o∣therwyse.

The contentes of that Canon be onely these: firste it sayeth, that it behoueth the Bishoppes of euery countrey or prouince to knowe theyr Metropolitane Bishoppe to haue the care and ouersighte, or gouernment ouer the whole Prouince. By the whiche woordes, the authoritie and name of a Metropolitane or Archebishoppe is moste pl〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ynely confirmed, and proued to be a permanent off〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ce: Secondly, this Canon willeth all those that haue any businesse to doe, to resorte to the Metropolitane citie. Whereby also is giuen to the Metropolitane Bishop greate preheminence: and therefore it followeth immediatly, that he shoulde excell all the reste in honour: and that the other Bishoppes shoulde doe nothing of importance without him: according to the olde rule made by their forefathers, but onely those thyngs whiche perteyne to theyr owne diocesse: and those places and possessions that perteine vnto the same. In whiche wordes who séeth not what preheminence is giuen to the Metropolitane ouer all the Bishoppes in hys Prouince: and what iurisdiction to the Bishop in his owne diocesse and places perteyning vnto it? where also it is to be noted that the Coun∣cell sayeth, secundiòn antiquam à patribus nostris regulam constitutam: according to the auncient rule appointed of oure forefathers. Whyche argueth a greate antiquitie of this office. Then it followeth: for euery Bishop hath authoritie ouer his owne Dio∣cesse, to rule and gouerne it, iuxta reuerentiam singulis competentem, accordyng to the reue∣rence due vnto euerie one of them, and that he hathe especiall care of that whole region that i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 subiecte to his Citie, so that he maye ordeyne Priestes and Deaeons, & singulasuo iuditio comprehendat. But he may not attempt any other thyng without the Metropoli∣tane Bishop, nor the Metropolitane do any thing without the counsel of the other Priests.

What can bée more playne, eyther for the authoritie of the Arche bishoppe, or iurisdiction of the Bishop? and what one worde of this Canon haue you truely al∣leadged? and yet it is quoted in your margent.

But if we imagine those thinges to be true, whiche you saye, howe will you conclude? forsooth, that the Metropolitane did then call Synodes, and propounded the matters, but nowe he dothe not call Synodes, and propounde the matters: Therefore there is nowe no neede of a Metropolitane. Firste it is vntrue, that Metropolita∣nes did then call eyther all Synodes, or that they called them of theyr owne au∣thoritie without the consente of the Prince, and Ciuill Magistrate: whiche thing is euident when the Magistrates were christened.

The Councell of Nice was summoned by the commaundement of Constantine* 1.4 the Emperoure, Eusebius de vita Constanti. lib. 3. Constantius called the Councell whyche was in Sardica ciuitate. The Bishoppes in the Councell of Constanti. confesse, that they came together by the Emperoures wrytte. Ambrose in the Councell of Aquileia, speaking of him 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and of other Byshoppes sayeth, that they were assembled oute at Aquileia, by the commaundemente of the Empe∣roure: The same dothe Hierome testifye concernyng a Councell holden at Rome, In Epita. Pauli. Pope Iulio Epist. 9. ad Theodos. desyreth the Emperoure, that by his authoritie there myghte be a Councell in Italye. Zozomen. libr. 6. cap. 7.

sheweth howe certayne Catholyke Bishoppes intreated the Emperoure, that they myght haue leaue to gather together for the redressing of certaine erroures. But 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉hat shall I neede to labour in a matter moste manifest? No man can be igno∣rant that readeth Ecclesiasticall stories, but that the Emperoures authoritie was r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉quired in summoning Councels and Synodes, not only generall, but prouinciall also. Secondly, it is vntrue that the Metropolitane in this Churche dothe not call Synodes, or propoundeth not the matters in them. &c. For he dothe bothe, althoughe he calleth no Prouinciall Synode, withoute the commaund〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ment of the Prince, no more than other Metropolitanes haue 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉oone in the beste tyme of the Churche vn∣der christ〈1 line〉〈1 line〉an Princes. Laste of all, thoughe all thys were true, that is 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉éere vn∣truely affirmed, yet were the office of an Archebishoppe necessarie, for it dothe not onely consiste in calling Synodes, but in sundrye thinges besyde, as I haue shewed before, and this councell of Antioche manyfestly declareth. And surely yf you would proue any thyng hereof directely, it s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ould bée thys, that eyth〈1 line〉〈1 line〉r the Archebishoppe dothe not exercyse that iurisdiction whyche he oughte to doe, or else can not doe that whiche perteyneth to his office, and so shoulde you speake for the amendement of the Archbishops iurisdiction.

Agayne, you saye an other cause appeareth there, whyche was to see that the Bishops kepte themselues within theyr owne diocesse. &c. but fyrst thys may be doone without an Arch∣bishoppe. &c. I tell you there is no suche thyng in that nynthe Canon: I say fur∣ther, that it maye beste an〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 mos〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e orderly bée doone by an Archebis〈1 line〉〈1 line〉oppe. Thirdely, I answere as before, that it is but one parte of his office. Fourthely, I saye vnto you, that this is a symple Argumente, the Archebishoppe dothe not kéepe suche olde Canons as bée not in vse in thys Churche, therefore there is no neede of his office. Laste of all, you oughte to knowe, that th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉se whom〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 y〈1 line〉〈1 line〉u call wandering ministers, be fai〈1 line〉〈1 line〉hefull Preachers a number of them: And suche as laboure diligentely in preachyng the woorde, and haue not a little pro∣fyted the flocke of Chryste, so that youre conclusion is not woor〈1 line〉〈1 line〉h a strawe.

Chap. 5. the. 3. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 95. Sect. 1.

Agayne the cause why the Metropolitane differed from the reste, and why the callyng of the Synode was gyuen to him, as it appeareth in the same Councell, was for that the* 1.5 greatest concour〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e was to that place, and moste assemblie of menne, wherevnto also may be added, for that there was the best commoditie of lodgyng and of vittayling, and for that as it appeareth in other Councells, it was the place and feare of the Empire. But with vs ney∣ther the greatest conc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉urse nor assemblie of men, nor the greatest commoditie of lodgyng and vittayi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉g, neyther yet the seate of the kingdome is in the Metropolitane citie, therefore with vs there is no suche cause of a Metropolitane or Archebishop.

Io. Whitgifte.

This is not alleadged as a cause why there shoulde be a Metropolitane, or why he differed from y^e rest, or why the calling of the Synode was giuen vnto hym, but rather why he was placed in the chiefe citie: so that these wordes touche not the Metropo∣litane or his office, but the aptnesse of the place where he shoulde continue. And yet if credite be to be giuen 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉yther to interpreters, or to the glosse in Gratian, caus. 9. quae. 3. per singulas, the wordes be not as you interprete them, for thus they be set downe in the booke of Councels, Tom. 1. Pr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉pter quod ad Metropolim omnes vndi{que} qui ne∣goti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 videntur habere concurrant, For the which let all that haue any businesse haue recourse from all places into the Metropolitane citie. An other 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ranslation is thus: Propter quod ad Metropolitanam ciuitatem ab his qui causas habent con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉urratur. And this last interpretati∣on

the authors of the Centuries do vse. Cent. 4. Of whiche wordes there can be no suche thing gathered, as you doe imagine, but farre otherwise. And the meaning of the Councell is, that suche as haue causes to be heard, may resort to the Metro∣politane citie where the Metropolitane is.

And you must vnderstand that it was in the power of the Emperour, and other Princes, to appoint the seat of the Metropolitan, where it pleased them, as it appe∣reth in the. 12. cap. of the Councel of Chalcedon, and in the. 17. Hom. of Chrysostome, Ad populum Antiochenum.

Chap. 5. the. 4. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 95. Sect. 2.

In the Councel of Carthage holden in Cyprians tyme, it appeareth that no Bishoppe had au∣thoritie ouer an other, to compell an other, or to condemne an other, but euery Bishop was left at his owne libertie to answere vnto God, and to make his accounte vnto Christe, and if anye thing were doone against any Bishoppe, it was done by the consent of all the bishoppes in the pro∣uince, or as many as coulde conuemently assemble. Therefore Cyprian whiche was the Metro∣politane bishop, had then no authoritie ouer the rest, and yet then there being no christian magistrate* 1.6 whych would punishe the disorders whiche were committed of the christian bishops, there was greatest, neede that there shoulde haue bene some one, which myght haue had the correction of the reste. If therefore when there was most nede of this absolute authoritie, there neither was nor might be any suche, it foloweth that nowe we haue a Christian magistrate, which may and ought to punyshe the disorders of the Ecclesiasticall persons, and may and ought to call them to account for their faultes, that there shoulde be no suche nede of an Archbishop.

Io. Whitgifte.

You here fall into the same faulte that a little before you ascribed to me, for you come backe from the Councell of Antioche, whiche was Anno. 360. to the Councell of Carthage, being Anno. 260. I omitte to tell you, that that Councell concluded an heresie for the whiche only it was assembled. And therefore though it be in the booke of the Councells, yet is it not reckened among the Councels: Only I demaund the woordes of that Councell that doe signifie one Bishoppe not to haue had autho∣ritie ouer an other. I tolde you before out of Cyprian himselfe, and out of Gregorie Nazianzene, that he had ample and large iurisdiction. The wordes of Cyprian in that Councell, whiche séeme to touche the matter you talke of, I haue expoun∣ded and answered before, they make not for your purpose.

It is no reason to proue that a Bishop muste not be subiecte to anye, bycause he is lefte at his owne libertie to answere to God, and to make his accompte vnto Christe, For by the same reason he myghte be exempled from the authoritie of the Ciuill Magi∣strate, and from all Lawes and orders touching Churche matters, and so myghte euery priuate man in lyke manner. But you muste remember that a Bishoppe is so lefte to his owne libertie, to answere vnto God, and make accompte vnto Chryste, that hée muste also acknowledge his duetie towardes man: and be subiecte to orders and lawes.

What do you saye for the fréedome of a Bishop from obedience vnto the Arche∣bishop, but it may be sayde lykewyse of his fréedome from subiection to his Prince in lyke matters: and of euery Anabaptist, for his deliuerance from subiection to all superiours▪ Wherfore you wring Cyprians wordes to an euill sense.

You haue bin oft tolde that no Archbyshop hath such power ouer either Byshop or inferioure minister, that of his owne authoritie he can do any thing againste them. The lawes of the realme will not suffer it, no the Canon law dothe by no meanes permit it: And therefore you do but dreame of an authoritie that is not.

Cyprian being a Metropolitane had authoritie ouer the rest.

The ciuill Magistrate doth gouerne the ecclesiasticall state, punisheth disorders among them, calleth them to accompt for their faults by Archbyshops, Byshops, and

other officers, as he doth the same in the ciuil state, by ciuill magistrates. Your mea∣ning is not (I dare say) to haue the Prince heare al matters hir selfe: You wil giue hir leaue to appoint vnder officers, as Moses, Dauid, Solomon, Iehosaphat, & other good kings haue done. If you will not allow the Magistrate so to do, let vs vnderstand your reasons, for surely I beléeue there is some such toy in your head.

Chap. 5. the. 5. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 95. Sect. 3.

The moderation of their authoritie in the aunciēt times may appeare first, by a canon which is falsely giuen to the Apostles, being as it is like a canon of the councell of Antioch (*) 1.7 whe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 in al∣though* 1.8 it ordeyneth one Primate in euery nation ouer the rest, and will not suffer any great matter to be done without him, as also will not suffer him to do any thing without the rest, yet euery By∣shop might do that which apperteyned vnto his owne parrish, without him, (a) 1.9 and he nothing to do with him in it. But as it seemeth the meaning of the canon was, that if there were any waigh∣tie matter to be cōcluded for all the Churches in the nation, then the byshops of euery parish should not enterprise any thing without calling him to councell. Now we see that the Archbyshop med∣leth with that which euery Byshop doth in his owne dioces, and hath his visitations for that pur∣pose, and will take any matter out of their hands, concludeth also of diuers matters, neuer making the Byshops once priuie to his doings.

Io. Whitgifte.

If it be a false canon or falsely gyuen to the Apostles, why do you vse it as a proofe? I might 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ay vnto you, as you said before vnto me: haue you such penurie of proofes, that you are constrayned to alleadge false canons? if it be a canon of the Councell of Antioch, shew what canon it is: if it be within that Councel, vndoutedly it is the. 9. canon before by you alledged, and how muche that proues your cause the very igno∣rant reader may iudge.

But let vs heare this canon be it true or false, and consider your collections of it:* 1.10 the wordes I haue recited before, but I will set them downe againe, that your py∣thy reasons (reasoning altogyther against your selfe) may appeare. The Byshops of e∣uery nation or countrie must know who amongst them is chiefe, whome they ought to e∣steeme* 1.11 as their head, and do nothing without his councell, besides those things only, which belong vnto their owne parish, and the places which are vnder it: neyther ought he to do a∣ny thing without the aduise of them all: for so shal there be concord, and God shall be glo∣rifyed by Christ Iesus in the holy Ghost. &c. Here first ther must be a Primate or chiefe Byshop (that is Archbyshop) of euery nation or countrie, whome the rest of the by∣shops must acknowledge as it were for their head. Secondly, the Byshops must do nothing vnaccustomed without him. Thirdly, that the other Byshops may do those things only quae ad parochiam eius, & regiones ei subditas pertinent: VVhich perteine vnto his parish, and places subiect vnto it which last words you leaue out. Last of all, that thys Primate must do nothing without their consents: what hath the Archbishop lost by this canon? surely not one iote: I think verily he doth not require so much▪ Euery by∣shop may do as much in his owne dioces now, (the authoritie of the Prince and hir lawes reserued) as he might do by that canon, for the Archbyshop dothe not rule by will, but by law, not of himselfe, but vnder the Prince, to whome both he and all o∣ther byshops be subiect.

You hit nothing lesse than the meaning of the canon: nay vndoutedly you imagine a sense contrary to the expresse words of the canon.

When the Archbyshop dothe visite, it is not to make newe lawes, or appointe newe orders (excepte he be commaunded so to doe by greater authoritie) but to see those orders and lawes kepte, that all Bishoppes and other are bounde vnto, and therefore he doth nothing in their diocesse contrary to that which they are bound to do, neyther doth he cōclude any thing without them, which by their consent and au∣thoritie of the law and Prince is not giuen vnto him.

Chap. 5. the. 6. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 95. Sect. 4.

Higinus or as some thinke Pelagius (I speake here as Platina reporteth, not thinking that* 1.12 in Higinus time, ther was any Metropolitane) ordeyned that no Metropolitane should cōdemne any Byshop, vnlesse the matter wer first both heard, and discussed by the byshops of that prouince, at what time, and after a greate while, a byshop was the (*) 1.13 same we call a minister. Nowe the Archbyshop will without any further assistance or discussion by others suspend him, and in the end also throw him out of his charge, and if he haue the same authoritie ouer a byshop, as a byshop ouer the minister, (as it is said) he may do the like vnto him also.

Io. Whitgifte.

This is another forged witnesse (such sound proofes the man hath that reprooues other men for the like) and yet God knoweth his witnesse maketh nothing for him. For who giueth authoritie to the Archbyshop to depriue eyther Byshop or inferiour minister, without due proofe and examination of the cause? touching consente of o∣ther, if he deale with him according to law, then dealeth he with the consent, not of the other Byshops only, but of all the realme: bycause that which is done by law: is done by the consent of all that consented either to the confirming or making of that law. Your glaunces by the way, (that there was then no Metropolitane: that then the same were byshops which we now cal ministers) bycause they be but barely affirmed, it shal be sufficient as flatly to denie them, and for proofe thereof to referre the Reader vnto that which hath bin spoken before.

Chap. 5. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 95. Sect. 5.

The councell of Antioch ordeyned, that if the voyces of the byshops were euen, and that if* 1.14 * 1.15 halfe did condemne him, and halfe cleare him, that then the Metropolitane byshop should call of the next prouince some other byshops, which should make an end of the controuersie: whereby appea∣reth that the Metropolitane had so small authoritie and power ouer and aboue the rest, that he had not so much as the casting voyce, when both sides were euen. And therefore it appeareth that be∣sides the names of Metropolitane, there was little or no resemblance betweene those that were then, and those which be now.

Io. Whitgifte.

You haue written in the margent the. 17. canon of that councell, in the which ther are no suche words, nor any thing tending to that purpose: it is the. 14. canon, that I think you meane, for in that canō it is thus determined: that if a Byshop be iudged for* 1.16 certaine crimes and it happen that the other byshops of the same prouince varie in iudge∣ment, some thinking him to be innocent, some guiltie, for the resoluing of all doubte, it pleased the holy Synode, that the Metropolitane byshop shal call for other iudges out of the next prouince, to end the cōtrouersie, who togyther with the Byshops of the same prouince, shall approue that which is iust and right. Here is no mention of equalitie in voyces, but only of disagréeing in iudgemēt among the Byshops of the same prouince. Like∣wise in this canon it appeareth that a Metropolitane had authoritie ouer moe pro∣uinces than one, for he might cal the Byshops of another prouince to decide the mat∣ter, if the Byshops of the same prouince could not agrée.

I sée not how this canon can any thing help you: for now neyther the Metropoli∣tane,* 1.17 nor all the Byshops in the prouince can depriue any Byshop without the con∣sent of y^e Prince: so that in that poynt the authoritie of the Metropolitane is nothing encreased, nor yet the authoritie of the Byshops. For then as it appeareth in the▪ 〈◊〉〈◊〉 canon of that councell, if a Priest or a Deacon had bin condemned of his owne byshop, o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 a byshop of a Synode, it was not lawfull for them to complaine to the Emperoure: if they* 1.18 had complayned, it was determined in the same canon, that they should neuer be pardoned, nor haue any place of satisfaction, nor hope of restitution. But now it is farre other∣wise. The. 11. canon of the same councell is much to the same effect. Wherefore the* 1.19 authoritie of the Metropolitane & other Byshops is not encreased as you presēd, but both the Metropolitane and other Byshops had asmuch authoritie then ouer other priests, ministers, and deacons, as they haue now, as appeareth by sundry canons of

the same councell.

In the. 4. canon it is decréede, that if a Byshop condemned by a Synode, or a priest, or* 1.20 a Deacon condemned by his owne Byshop, shal take vpon him to exercise any mini〈1 line〉〈1 line〉terie, he shall be without all hope of restitution, and who soeuer doth communicate with hym, shall be excommunicated. In the. 5 canon it is thus determined: If any priest or deacon* 1.21 contemning his proper Bishop, hath separated himselfe from the Churche, and gathering people apart, hath erected an altar, and hathe not obeyed the admonition of his Bishop, neyther hath consented and agreed vnto him calling him backe diuers times, let this man be condemned, and deposed by all meanes, and let him not obteyne any remedie afterward, bycause he cannot receiue againe his dignitie. But if he persist to trouble the Churche, let him be corrected by the outward power as a seditious person. By these canons it is eui∣dent that the Bishop of euery seuerall diocesse had authoritie by himselfe to excom∣municate, to depriue, and to seclude from the ministerie any priest, deacon, or any o∣ther of the cleargie in more ample and large manner, than he hath at this day. The which thing also may be séene in the. 6. &. 12. canons of the same Councell: so that you haue sought for help at the Councell, whiche is one of the greatest enimies to thys your assertion, and doth flatly condemne it. Diuers canons of the which Councell, if they were practised, woulde soone remedie the sects and schismes whiche you haue stirred.

Chap. 5. the. 8. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 95. Sect. vlt.

Now, to consider how the Byshops which are now, differ from the Byshops, which were in times past, I must cal to thy remembrance (gentle reader) that which I haue spokē before, which was that then there was, as appeareth out of Cyprian, and Ierome and others, one Byshop in e∣uery* 1.22 parish or congregation: now one is ouer a thousand, then euery Byshop had a seueral Church where he preached and ministred the sacraments: now he hath none, then he ruled that one Church (as I shewed out of Ierome) in cōmon with the elders of the same: nowe he ruleth a thousand by himselfe, shutting out the ministers, to whome the rule and gouernment belongeth: then he ordeyned not any minister of the Church, except he were first chosen by the presbyterie, and approued by the people of that place wherevnto he was ordeyned: now he ordeyneth where there is no place voyde, and of his priuate authoritie, without eyther choyse or approbation of presbyterie or people. Then he excommunicated not, nor receyued the excommunicated, but by sentences of the eldership, and consent of the people, as shall appeare afterward: now he doth both. And thus you see that contrary to the word of God, he hath gotten into his owne hand, and pulled to himselfe both the preheminēce of the other ministers, and the liberties of the Church, which God by his word had giuen.

Io. Whitgifte.

There is scarse one worde of all this true, and surely I muche maruell that you dare be so bolde so manifestlie to speake against your owne conscience & knowledge. I haue before sufficiently proued all that is here by you auouched, to be cleane con∣trary for the most part. It shall be therefore sufficient, as briefly now to answer, as you do propound. Demetrius was Byshop of all the dioces in Egypt and Alexandria.* 1.23 Euseb. lib. 6. cap. 1. Cyprian was Byshop of Carthage, Numidia, Mauritania, Cyprian lib. 4. epist. 8. Timothie being Byshop had the gouernment almost of the whole countrie of Asia, as Chrysostome declareth vpon the. 1. Tim. 5. and. 2. Tim. 4. Titus was Byshop of y^e whole Ile of Creta, as the same Chrysost. testifyeth ad Tit. 1. I〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 aue before by sundry* 1.24 examples and testimonies, by diuers councels, and especially the councell of Nice, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the vanitie & vntruth of this that is here affirmed, that is, that there was one Byshop in euery parish and congregation: and the words of Cyprian and Ierome be cleane 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rary: for they both make a difference betwene a Byshop, to whome the gouern∣ment of many pastors is committed, and a pastor that hath but one seuerall flocke or charge. For further vnderstanding whereof, I referre y^e Reader to that, which is spo∣ken before.

The byshops haue now as seuerall churches to preache and minister the sacra∣ments in, as they had then. They haue no more authoritie in gouernment now, than they had at that time, nor so much: and yet if they had more authoritie than they ey∣ther haue now, or had then, I thinke it were more for the commoditie of the Church,

the state of the time, and conditions of men considered.

As for ruling euery seuerall churche by those, whiche you call Elders, you haue shewed no such thing out of Ierome, neyther can you. For Ierome in that place you meane, by presbyteri meaneth Priests, as he dothe in all other places that I remem∣ber. Neyther doth he there speake of particular parishes.

Touching the electing and ordeyning of ministers, sufficient hath bin spoken be∣fore.* 1.25 The Byshop doth nothing therein, but that which he may iustly by the word of God, and testimonie of the best and most worthy writers.

Of excommunication we shall speake hereafter, you do glance at it now out of* 1.26 place. And thus he that is an indifferēt Reader may vnderstand that the Byshops in these days in this Church of England haue no other authoritie, than the word of God doth giue vnto them: The Byshops of the primitiue Church haue pract〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sed: y^e libertie of the Church wel beareth: and the state of the time, and condition of men requireth.

Chap. 5. the. 9. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 96. Lin. 7.

And as for the offices wherein there is any laboure or trauayle, those they haue turned vnto the other ministers, as for example in tunes past (*) 1.27 it was not lawfull for him that was then an* 1.28 elder, to preach or minister the sacraments in the presence of the Byshop, bycause the Byshop him∣selfe should do it, and now those which they call elders, may preach and minister the sacraments by the Byshops good licence, although he be present.

Io. Whitgifte.

There is no iust cause of complaint for most of the Byshops in that behalfe. For I thinke the time hath not bin, wherein there were moe preaching Byshops, than are at this day, in this Church. But do you thinke that a minister may not preach or minister the sacraments in the presence of the Byshop? Or do you so well allow of* 1.29 that Councell and canon quoted in your margent? It was the second councell called Hispalense concilium, it was not generall, but prouinciall, celebrated Anno. Dom. 659. the contents of the canon by you alledged are these. That a Priest may not cōsecrate alters, but only the Byshop: that a Priest and Chorepiscopi may not consecrate virgines, erect altars,* 1.30 blesse and anoynt them, hallow churches, make holy oyle, and such like, but only the By∣shop. Likewise that no priest may baptise, say Masse▪ teach the people, or blesse them in the presence of the Byshop. Surely this is a worthy Councel, and a notable canon, especi∣ally for you to alledge, that haue so depraued other worthy writers for some imper∣fections founde in them.

But what doth it make for your purpose? They might both preach and minister* 1.31 the sacraments in the presence of the Byshop, if he willed them, and so is the canon. This law was made for the encreasing of the Byshops pompe and dignitie: for no man might presume to speake or do any thing in their presence, without their leaue and licence: so were they estéemed thē, and such authoritie had they. But if our By∣shops should clayme the like, you would say that it were an vntollerable arrogancie and pride.

I would to God all those that be deluded by you, would consider your allegations, and the grounds of your proofes. Surely I woulde be loth to alledge any Councell of that time to proue any thing in controuersie. Much more loth would I be to 〈◊〉〈◊〉 so corrupt a canon: but lothest of all to alledge that, which should be so flat against 〈◊〉〈◊〉 cause, & proue the cleane cōtrary to that, which I affirme, as this doth in your 〈◊〉〈◊〉▪

And here I haue one thing to tell you, y^t diuers of those things, wherin you 〈◊〉〈◊〉* 1.32 make this difference betwixt our Byshops and those of the primitiue church, if t〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ey were true, yet wer they no saults in the office, but in the men: as for example, thys which you here set downe. Will you make a differēce in the offices of our Byshops and those of olde time, bycause some of them do not preach? This compareth the mē togither, not the offices, except you proue that it is forbidden or vnlawfull for one of our Byshops to preach. There are other such like, which I omitte.

Chap. 5. the. 10. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 96. Sect. 1.

Now if you wil also consider how much the Lord ship, pompe, and statelinesse of the Byshops in our days, differ from the simplicitie of them in times past▪ I will giue you also a taste therof, if first of all I shew the beginning, or as it were the fountaine where vpon the pompe grew, which* 1.33 was when in stead of hauing a Byshop in euery parishe and congregation, they began to make a Byshop of a whole dioces, and of a thousand congregations.

Io. Whitgifte.

If the pompe began as you say, then began it in the Apostles time, for then began they to make one Byshop ouer a whole diocesse, as Timothie almost ouer all Asia, and Titus ouer all Creta, as I haue declared. Which order hath bin from that day to this obserued throughout all Christendome, as it may appeare by that, which is al∣ready said.

Chap. 5. the. 11. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 96. Sect. 2.

In an epistle of Zacharie vnto (*) 1.34 Pope Boniface, it is thus written, it hath bin oftētimes de∣creede,* 1.35 y^t there should not be a Bishop apointed in euery village▪ or little citie, least they should waxe vile (a) 1.36 through the multitude: wherby it both appeareth that ther was wont to be a Byshop in e∣uery parish, and vpon how corrupt and euill consideration one Byshop was set ouer a whole dio∣cesse. No doubt, those that were authors of this, had learned to well our olde prouerb, the fewer the better cheare, but the more Byshops, the merier it had bin with Gods people.

Io. Whitgifte.

This epistle was writtē by Pope Zacharie to one Boniface which was Byshop in France, and not to Pope Boniface: moreouer it is in the. 2. tome of Councels, and you haue quoted in your margent the third. But to the matter.

You haue not one word in that epistle to proue that there was wont at any time* 1.37 to be in euery parish a Byshop. And you haue falsely alleadged the words of the epistle: for these words (least they should waxe vile through the multitude) are not ther to be found. The words of the Epistle be there. For you must remember what we are commaunded by the olde canons to obserue, that we ought not to ordein Bishops in villages, and smal ci∣ties, least the name of a Byshop should waxe vile. What one word is there here of pla∣cing Byshops in euery parish? Zacharie telleth Boniface, that it is according to the olde canons that Byshops should not be placed in such smal cities, but in more ample and large cities, bycause the contemptiblenesse of the place, dothe oftentimes bring contempt to the person, and a Byshop ought to be estéemed and reuerenced. If you had red the epistle, you should haue perceiued that this Boniface had lately conuerted to christianitie interiorem Germaniam, and that he had ordeyned amōg them certaine By∣shops to gouerne them, whome he desired Pope Zacharie by his authoritie to con∣firme, to whome Pope Zacharie answering, willeth him to consider whether the places be so conuenient, or the number of the people so great, vt Episcopos habere merean∣tur. Meminerimus enim (saith he) quid in sacris canonibus. &c. as I haue rehearsed them be∣for〈1 line〉〈1 line〉▪ And a little after he nameth the places, where he will haue the byshops seates 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 that there is nothing lesse ment, than that there was in euery parish a Bishop, 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 much as there was there before no Byshop in any parish: but this is all that may be gathered, that the seates of Byshops were by the olde canons apointed to be in the best cities, and most famous places: which to be true you may soone perceiue in those canons themselues, mētioned here by Zacharie: they are to be found. dist. 80.

Chap. 5. the. 12. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 96. Sect. 2.

And they might with as good reason hinder the sunne from shining in all places, and the raine 〈◊〉〈◊〉 falling vpon al grounds, for feare they should not be set by, being common, as to bring in such

a wicked decree, whereby vnder pretēce of deliuering the Byshop from contempt, they sought no∣thing else but an ambitious and stately Lordship ouer those, whiche had not that title of Byshop that they had, although they did the office of a Byshop better than they did. And what intollerable presumptiō is this, to chaunge the institution of God, as though he (*) 1.38 which ordeyned not one on∣ly, but some number more or lesse of Byshops in euery Church, did not sufficiently foresee, that the multitude and plentie of Byshops could breede no contempt of the office. And it may be as well or∣deyned that the children of poore men shoulde not call them that begar them, fathers and mothers, but only the children of the rich, and of the noble, least that if euery man that hath children, shoulde be called a father, fathers should be set nothing by.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is a maruellous matter that you delight to runne so fast vpon a false string: I tell you once agayne, that you neuer red that Epistle, neyther yet those canons that it speaketh of. If you had red them, you would neuer haue affirmed (if there be any modestie left in you) that the multitude of Byshops is alledged there as a cause of contempte, no such thing being mentioned. The canons haue a very good consideration, and be not wicked, but wise and godly. This superioritie of Byshops is Gods owne institu∣tion, and it hath a necessary vse in the Church of God, as is shewed before. It hathe bin, and may be abused: and it is, and may be well vsed. All these glorious words of yours, are but very wordes, and therefore as words, I will committe them to the winde.

This one thing I cannot let passe that you say, God ordeyned not one onely, but some* 1.39 number moe or lesse of Byshops in euery Church. What scripture haue you to proue that there should be more Byshops than one in one Church? What one example in al the primitiue Church haue you to warrant this your assertion? Nay you haue the whole practise of the Church to the contrary, euen from the beginning. Iames alone was Byshop of Ierusalem, Timothie of Ephesus, Titus of Creta, Clemens of Rome. &c. and it hath bin always compted as monstrous to haue two Byshops of one citie, as to haue two heads of one body But such bolde assertions without proofe, are méete principles for such a ruinous and totering platforme, as you dreame of.

Chap. 5. the. 13. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 96. Sect. 2.

And here let vs obserue by what degrees and stayers, Sathan lifted the child of perdition vn∣to that proud title of vniuersall Byshop. First (*) 1.40 where the Lord did ordeyne that there shoulde be diuers pastors, elders, or Byshops in euery congregation, (a) 1.41 Sathan wrought first, that there should be but one in euery Church: this was no doubt the first steppe. Afterwards he pushed fur∣ther, and stirred vp diuers not to content themselues to be Byshops of one Church, but to desire to be Byshops of a dioces, wherevnto although it seemeth that ther was resistance (in that it is sayd, that it was decreede often) yet in the end this wicked attempt preuayled, and this was another steppe: then were there Archbyshops of whole prouinces, whiche was the thirde stayer vnto the seate of Antichrist. Afterwards they were patriarches of one of the fower corners of the whole world, the whole Church being assigned to the iurisdiction of fower, that is to say of the Romaine, Constantinopolitane, Antiochene, and Alexandrine Byshops, and these fower stayers being layde of Sathan, there was but an easie stride for the Byshop of Rome into that chaire of pestilence, wherein he now sitteth.

Io. Whitgifte.

All this is as coldely proued, as it is boldely affirmed, for here is neyther scrip∣ture, doctor, story, Councell, or any thing else, but ipse dixit. How proue you that the Lorde ordeyned that there should be in euery congregation diuers pastors, elders, or Byshops? The place of scripture (if there be any) had bin soone quoted. Or howe proue you that Sathan wrought first that there should be but one in euery Church? Is it Sathās worke* 1.42 that one Church should haue but one pastor? This is straunge doctrine, and far from an Apostolicall spirite: contrary to the practise of the Apostles, and of the Church euen from the beginning. But séeing you haue so barely set it downe without any kynde of proofe, I will passe it ouer, by putting you to your proofe. But yet tell me, dyd Sathan stirre vp Timothie and Titus, who were Byshops of one whole diocesse?

Did he stirre vp the other auncient fathers and godly Bishops of whome I haue spo∣ken? Whither will this slaunderous mouth reache? whome will this venemous tongue spare, if it speake so spitefully of such worthie Pastors?

Your collection of resistance that hath béene to such superioritie (béeing grounded of the place, that you neuer sawe nor red) is rashe and vnaduised. For if you had séene eyther that Epystle, or those Canons, you woulde (or at the least you might) haue learned another lesson.

Archbishops, Patriarches, &c. were allowed by the Councell of Nice, the godlyest, and the most perfect Councell (since the Apostles time) that euer was. And did Sathan rule there also and preuayle? O that Arius were aliue to heare it. These steppes whereof you make Sathan the authour, and whereby you say, the Bishop of Rome hath ascended into the Chayre of pestilence, &c. haue béene the best, and most conuenient kinde of gouernment, that euer was in the Church since the Apostles time: approued and allowed by the best Councels, and the next meanes to haue kept Antichrist out of his seate, if in all places they had remayned in theyr full force and authoritie.

But this I may not passe ouer, that you in effect confesse your kinde of gouern∣ment by elders to haue ceased before the Councell of Nice, and also one Bishop to haue béene ouer one whole Diocesse before that time, in that you say that the childe of perdition was lifted vp by these degrées, the last whereof was allowed in the Ni∣cene Councell.

Chap. 5. the. 14. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 96. Sect. 2.

Hauing nowe shewed howe this Lordly estate of the Bishop began, and vppon what a rotten grounde it is builded, I come to shewe howe farre the Bishops in our tyme are for theyr pompe and outwarde statelinesse degenerated from the Bishops of elder tymes.

Io. Whitgifte.

A man woulde haue thought that you being so great an enimie to those degrées, woulde not haue thus concluded vpon so small proofe, and the same vtterly vntrue: vsing onely for your grounde the Epistle of Pope Zacharie, which maketh nothing for your purpose. Now let vs sée, how farre the Bishops of our tyme are for theyr pompe. &c. degenerated from the Bishops of elder tymes.

Chap. 5. the. 15. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 96. Sect. 3.

And here I call to remembrance, that which was spoken of the poore estate of Basill, and Theodorete: and if M. Doctour will say (as he doth indeede in a certaine place) that then was a time of persecution, and this is a time of peace, it is easily answered, that although Basill were vnder persecution, yet Theodorete liued vnder good Emperours. But that shall appeare bet∣ter by the Canons which were rules giuen for the Bishops to frame themselues by.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is for lacke of other examples, that you are constreyned to repeate these: To the poorenesse of Theodorete I haue answered: there may be as poore Bishops now, as there was then, and there might be as riche Bishops then, as there are nowe. It is not one or two examples that can proue the contrarie.

Chap. 5. the. 16. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 97. Sect. 1.

In the 4. Councell of Carthage it is degreed that the Bishops shoulde haue a little house* 1.43 neare vnto the Church, what is this compared with so many fayre large houses, and with the princely Palace of a Bishop? And in the same Councell it is decreed that he shoulde haue the fur∣niture and stuffe of his house after the common sort, and that his table and dyet shoulde be poore, and that he should get him estimation by faythfulnesse and good conuersation.

Io. Whitgifte.

In the. 52. and. 53. Canons of the same Councell, Clearkes, how learned so euer they be in Gods woorde, are willed to get their liuing by some occupation, or by hus∣bandrie, but I thinke you will not haue them so to do now at this time. Wherefore you must cōsider the diuersitie of the time and state of the Church. If God hath dealt now more bountifully with his Church in externall benefites, if he hath put into the hearts of Christian Princes thus to deale with the ministers of the woorde: and if this state and condition be necessary for this time, and people, why should you enuie it? Ritches and fayre houses be no hinderances, but helpes, if they be vsed according∣ly: and commonly hypocrisie and pryde, lieth hidde vnder the name of pouertie and simplicitie.

Chap. 5. the. 17. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 97. Sect. 1.

And in another Councell, that the Bishops should (a) 1.44 not giue themselues to feastes, but be* 1.45 content with a litle meate. Let these Bishops be compared with oures, whose chambers shine with gilte, whose walles are hanged with clothes of Auris, whose cupbordes are loden with plate, whose tables and diets, are furnished with multitude and diuersitie of dishes, whose dayly dinners are feastes, let them I say be compared together, and they shall be founde so vnlike, that if those old Bishops were aliue, they would not know eche other. For they would thinke that oures were Princes, and ours would thinke that they were some hedge Priests, not worthie of their acquain∣taunce or fellowship.

Io. Whitgifte.

If you meane the first Tyronense Concilium, there is no such thing to be found in the 5. Canon of it, nor in the whole Councell. The fifth Canon conteyneth a profitable ad∣monition for you and such as you are, for it forbiddeth vnder the payne of excōmu∣nication, that any beyng a Clearke should leaue of his calling, and become a lay man. If you meane the seconde Tyronense Concilium. I make you the like answere. Belike your collector hath deceyued you, but what if it were so? This onely might be gathe∣red, that vnlesse Bishops then had bene welthie, there should not haue néeded a decrée against feasting. If our Bishops should make the like now, it would be thought they did it for sparing. And I thinke that, and such like Canons méete not onely for Bi∣shops, but for all states and degrées of men.

Riches and costly furniture bée no impediment to a godly man for doing* 1.46 his duetie. And in suche externall thinges the condition of the time, and state of the Countrie is to be obserued. Lette our Bishoppes be compared with them in truthe of doctrine, in honestie of life, in diligent walking in theyr vocation, and in knowledge (I speake of the moste in bothe ages) and I thinke the difference will not be so greate, but that they maye bothe knowe one another, and very well

agrée among themselues: this onely excepted, that the doctrine of the Gospell is now much more purely professed by our Bishops, than it was at that tyme by them, for both the Councels are in sundrie poynts very corrupt.

Chap. 5. the. 18. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 97. Sect. 2.

In the same councell of Carthage, it was decreed that no Bishop sitting in any place shoulde suffer any Minister or Elder to stande. Nowe I will report me to themselues howe this is kept,* 1.47 and to the poore ministers which haue to do with them, and come before them.

Io. Whitgifte.

A poore quarell: though this humilitie is to be required in all Bishops, yet is it to be vsed with discretion: for thus to deale with a proude and hawtie stomacke, were but to giue nourishment to arrogancie and contempt. It is méete that euerie man haue that honour and reuerence giuen vnto him, which his place, his office, and his person requireth. And as it is humilitie in him to remitte any part of it: euen so it is an intollerable contempt and pryde for those that be inferiours, so to looke for suche equalitie, that in the meane tyme they refuse to doe that, whiche ciuilitie, good maners, and duetie requyreth. But let all men consider those notes and tokens of your hawtie stomackes, and perswade themselues, that it woulde not bée long before you woulde chalenge the same equalitie, wyth other states and degrées in like maner.

Chap. 5. the. 19. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 97. Sect. 3.

The Bishoppes in tymes past had no tayle nor trayne of men after them, and thought it a slaunder to the Gospell to haue a number of men before and behinde them. And therefore is (*) 1.48 Paulus Samosatenus noted as one that brought Religion into hatred, and as one that feemed to* 1.49 take delight rather to be a Capitaine of two hundred, than a Bishop, bycaus〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 he had gotten hym a sorte of seruing men to waight on him, An other example not vnlyke and lykewyse reprehended is in Ruffine of one (a) 1.50 Gregorie a Bishop. Nowe in our dayes it is thought a commendation to* 1.51 the Bishop, a credite to the Gospell, if a Bishop haue. 30. 40. 60. or mo wayting of him, some be∣fore, some behinde, whereof three partes of them (set a part the carying of a dishe vnto the table) haue no honest or profitable calling to occupie themselues in two houres of the day, to the filling of the Churche and common wealth also with all kinde of disorders, and greater incommodities, than I minde to speake of, bicause it is not my purpose.

Io. Whitgifte.

In Eusebius it is sayde that Paulus Samosatenus vsed to walke publikely in the market places reading letters and boasting himselfe, being accompanied with a num∣ber* 1.52 of Souldiours some before him and some behinde him, more like to a Capitaine than a Bishop. If any of our Bishops walke in the stréetes to be séene, or stande in the market places, or other open and publike assemblies reading of letters, accompa∣nied with Souldiours and men of warre, then may it be truly sayde of them, that is here truly spoken of Paulus Samosatenus. But if they being farre from such vani∣tie, kéepe that countenance and retinue of men, which their place, the maner of their Countrey, the honour of the Prince, the state of the Church requireth, then doe you vncharitably and vniustly applie this example agaynst them. But vnlesse Paulus Sa∣mosatenus had béene riche and wealthie, howe coulde this pompe of his haue béene mainteyned? Wherefore this example is rather agaynst you, than for you: ney∣ther doth it condemne wealth and ryches in Bishops, but pride, vainglorie, and light∣nesse. For they accuse him of spoyling the Church, and thereby enriching himselfe.

In the example of George, whom you 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉all Gregorie, mentioned in 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uffine, there is no worde spoken of any seruing men, or souldiours: onely he is there reproued, be∣cause he got his Bishoprike by violence, and thought that the office of iudgement in* 1.53 ciuill causes was rather committed vnto him, than the Priesthoode. &c. If any Bishop of∣fende in the like with vs, it is the fault of the man, not of the office. By this example also it may appeare, that Bishoppes in those dayes had ryches and authoritie: For this abusing of their wealth and authoritie, doth argue that they had both, which they might haue vsed rightly and well.

Chap. 5. the. 20. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 97. Sect. 4.

And here I will note another cause which brought in this pompe, and princely estate of By∣shops, wherein although I will say more in a worde for the pompous estate, than M. doctour hath done in all his treatise: yet I will shewe that although it were more tollerable at the fyrst, nowe it is by no meanes to be borne wyth. * 1.54 In the Ecclesiasticall Storie we reade that the inscriptions of diuers Epistles sent vnto Byshops were 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. * 1.55 We reade also of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 house of salutations, which Ambrose Bishop of Millayn had. As for the tytle of (moste honourable Lordes) it was not so great, nor so stately, as the name of a Lorde or knight in oure Countrey, for all those that knowe the maner of the speach of the Grecians doe well vnderstande, howe they vsed to call euerie one of any meane countenance in the common wealth where he lyued 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉; that is Lorde, so we see also the Euangelists turne Rabbi which signifyeth master by the Gre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ke worde 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 Lorde, as lykewyse in Fraunce they call euery one that is a Gentleman, or hath any honest place Monseur, and so they wyll say also, sauing your honour. Nowe we know this worde (Lorde) in our Countrey is vsed otherwise, to note some great personage, eyther by reason of birth, or by reason of some high dignitie in the common wealth, which he occupieth, and therefore those tytles although they were somewhat excessiue, yet were they nothing so swelling and stately as ours are.

Io. Whitgifte.

The wise man sayth, Let not thine owne mouth prayse thee: but you for lacke of* 1.56 good neighbours, or else for tootoo much selfe loue, oftentymes forget this lesson, as in this place.

Howsoeuer the Grecians vsed to call euery one of any meane countenance in the common* 1.57 wealth, where he lyued 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Lorde, yet did they not vse to call him 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 most honourable Lorde, for that tytle was onely giuen to such as were of great dignitie and authoritie: as it is in the place of Theodorete (by you quoted) giuen to Bishops: and therefore you haue made an obiection, which you cannot answere. This worde Lorde, doth signifie preheminence and superioritie, and hauing this title (most honou∣rable,) ioyned with it, it cannot but signifie some greate state and degrée of au∣thoritie.

The same I answere to that, which followeth. And yet Rabbi was a name gy∣uen primarijs hominibus, & honore aliquo praeditis: to the chiefe men, and those, which were* 1.58 indued with some honour: and in that the Euangelistes do translate it Lorde, it is ma∣nifest that this name, Lorde, signified then a degrée of superioritie: but hauing (as I sayde) this tytle (most honourable) added vnto it, as it is in that place of Theodorete, it cannot but signifie some especiall preheminence, and therefore equiualent with the titles now vsed. Master Caluine vpon the. 20. of Iohn. verse. 16, sayth that (Rabboni)* 1.59 which is there interpreted (master) is nomen non modò 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉onorificum: not onely an honou∣ble name, but also, quod professionem continet obedientiae, such as conteyneth a profession of obedience.

But doe the tytles of honour, and degrée giuen vnto Bishops so much trouble your hawtie stomacke? Surely you are not then of that spirit, that the olde auncient* 1.60 fathers were, who disdeyned not to call Bishoppes by as honourable tytles as wée

doe: looke in Atha. his. 2. Apol you shall there find the Synode gathered at Ierusalem, writing to the Priestes of Alexand call Athanasius sundrie tymes Dominum, not as by* 1.61 a common tytle, but a tytle of dignitie, quum vobis restituet pastorem vestrum & dominum comministrum nostrum Ath〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nasium: VVhen he shall restore vnto you your Pastor and Lorde our fellow minister Athanasius. In the same Apol. Bishops are called domini preciosissimi, most excellent or worthie Lordes. And it is euident in the same booke, that there was no other tytle gyuen to the Emperoure himselfe, for there hée is onely called (Lorde) and so were other of his Nobles in like maner. So that in those dayes it was not grudged at, to giue vnto Bishoppes the same ty〈1 line〉〈1 line〉les of honour, that was giuen to the Emperour & other Nobles. The name of (most reuerend) is as much as the name of most honourable, and yet was that name also giuen vnto Bishops in A∣thanasius tyme, as appeareth in the same booke in sundrie places. For Athanasius him selfe is called by his Priestes and Deacons reuerendissimus Episcopus.

Eusebius Nicomed. wryting to Paulinus Bishop of Tyrus vseth this style, Do∣mino meo Paulino, &c. To my Lorde Paulinus to. 1. con. But what shoulde I labour to proue the antiquitie of such tytles, which cannot be vnknowne to such as be learned? I had more neede to declayme agaynst the pryde and hautinesse of such, as do disdaine to vse them: but I will not spende paper in wordes.

Chap. 5. the. 21. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 97. Sect. 5. 6.

And as touching Ambrose house, albeit the worde doth not employ so great gorgeou〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nesse nor maginfycence of a house, as the Palaces and o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉her magnificall buildings of our Bishops, yet the cause where vpon this rose, doth more excuse Ambrose, who being taken from great wealth and gouernment in the common wealth, giuing ouer his office, did reteyne(*) 1.62 his house and that which he had gotten.

But our Bishops* 1.63 do mainteyne this pompe and excesse, of the charges of the Church, with whose goodes a great number of ydle loytering seruing men are mainteyned, which ought to be be∣stowed vpon the Ministers, which want necessarie finding for theyr familyes, and vpon the poore and maintenance of the Uniuersityes. As for these ryotous expences of the Church goodes, when many other Ministers want, and of making great dinners, and interteyning great Lordes and magistrates, and of the answere to them that say they do helpe the Church by this meanes, I will referre the reader to that, which Ierome wryteth in an Epistle ad Nepotianum monachum, where this is handled more at large.

Io. Whitgifte.

Your answere for Ambrose his house hath no probabilitie in it, for the wordes* 1.64 of Theodorete in that place, do plainly declare that it was neare vnto the Churche, yea infra sept〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Ecclesiae: within the bondes or close of the Church, and therefore most like to be the house perteyning to the Bishoprike, and not any part of Ambrose his for∣mer 〈◊〉〈◊〉. For if you remember, you sayde a little before, that it was decréed in the. 4. Councell of Carthage. Can. 14. that a Bishop shoulde haue his house neare vn∣to the Church. But wise men can consider from whence such vnlikely assertions without any shew of proofe do come.

Bishops buylde not these great houses of the Churches goodes, but receyue them* 1.65 as left vnto them by such as were farre from séeking a spoyle: they vso them accor∣ding to the lawes of the lande: and their number of men can in no respect be discom∣mended, tending to the defense and strength of the realme, the honour of the Prince, and their owne honest and góod education. Our Bishops therefore vse the goodes of the Church according to the first institution and foundation, and I doubt not but they vse them to more profite both of the Church and common wealth, than they should be vsed, if your phansies might take place.

Your complaint for ministers, for the poore. &c. may be otherwise satisfyed than by* 1.66 a spoyle: For if benefices were rightly vsed, the Ministers of thys Kealme

are better prouided for, than in any rountrey or age: yea there are mo sufficient ly∣uings for them besydes the Bishoprikes, than can be supplyed with able ministers. The poore also are well prouided for (God be thanked,) by sundrie meanes, if lawes* 1.67 made for the same were duely executed, and Hospitalles with suche other prouisi∣ons delyuered from vnreasonable Leases, and bestowed vppon the poore according to their fyrst ordinaunces. Wherefore this clamour of yours is nothing but the* 1.68 voyce of an enuious spirite proclayming the spoyle of the Churche, to the decay of learning, and bringing in of barbarisme, if it be not in time preuented.

The Uniuersityes are much beholding to you for your care ouer them: but what reasons haue you vsed agaynst the lyuings and houses of Byshoppes, that may not also be vsed agaynst their landes and Colledges: for in tymes past, when that Councell of Carthage (before by you alledged) was holden, there were nosuche Colledges indued with such possessions, as there are nowe. Neyther are there (as I haue hearde) in Christendome the like Colledges, and the like liuings for Stu∣die〈1 line〉〈1 line〉es, as are in this Realme of Englande. Wherefore if such examples and con∣ditions of Countries, tymes, and persons bée sufficient to ouerthrowe Bishoppes houses and landes, I sée not howe Colledges can stande long after them, and there∣fore we pray you speake for your selfe, we require not the helpe of so euill a Proc∣tour. Woulde you séeke to mainteyne learning with the spoyle of the Churche, and the diminishing of the rewarde of learning? An non vides, quàm pugnanti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 lo∣queris?

By that Epistle of Ierome ad Nepotianum, it appeareth that the state of the Clergie was not then so poore, as you woulde séeme to make it. Ierome reproueth the abuses* 1.69 of his time, as couetousnesse, gluttonie, gorgeous and costly apparell with such lyke which at all tymes are in lyke maner to be condemned. But doth he that reproueth the abuse, condemne the thing? It is a fault by couetous or vniust dealing to waxe riche: but yet it is no fault to be riche. Pride in apparell is to be condemned: but yet euerie man may lawfully weare that apparell, that is méete for his degrée. No man alloweth gluttonie or immoderate seasting: neyther doth any wise man con∣denme a plentifull table, and good house kéeping. It is not good dealing to applie that which is spoken agaynst the abuse of a thing, to the condemning and quite euer throw of the thing it selfe, as you d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the wordes of Ierome in that Epistle.

Chap. 5. the. 22. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 98. Lin. 2.

By this which I haue cyted it appeareth, what was one cause of this excesse and stately 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ompe of the Byshoppes, namely that certaine noble and riche men, beyng chosen to the ministerie, and liuing somewhat like vnto the former estates, wherein they were before, others also assayed to be like vnto them, as we see in that poynt the nature of man is to readie to followe, if they see any example before theyr eyes. But there is no reason bicause Ambrose and such like did so, there∣fore our Bishops shoulde do it (*) 1.70 of the Churches costes. Nor bicause Ambrose and such lyke did tarie in their trim houses, which they had built them selues of their owne charge before they were Bishops, that therfore they should come out of their chambers or narrow houses into courts and pallaces, builded of the Churches costes.

Io. Whitgifte.

Where haue you shewed any such thing by Ambrose his example? or how doth it appeare that by such meanes the pompe of the Bishops (as you cal it) was brought in? That which you speake of Ambrose house is most vntrue: it was perteyning to the Byshop, and no part of Ambrose his proper possessions, as it is euident by this, that it was neare vnto the Churche, euen within the limits, of the Church, as I haue sayde before.

Chap. 5. the. 23. Diuision.

T. C Pag. 98. Sect. 1.

Another reason of this pompe and statelinesse of the Bishops was, that which almost brought in all poyson and popish corruption into the church, and that is a foolish emulation of the manners and fashions of the idolatrous nations. For as this was the crafte of Sathan to drawe away the Israelites from the true seruice of God, by theyr fonde desyre they had to conforme themselues to the fashions of the Gentiles, so to punish vnthankefull receyuing of the Gospell, and to fulfill the Prophecies touching the man of sinne; the Lord suffred those that professed Christ to corrupt thei〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 wayes, by the same sleyght of the Diuell.

Io. Whitgifte.

If it be inough to say without any kinde of proofe, then you haue sayd some thing:* 1.71 but if woordes without proofes be but light, then are these woordes so to be estéemed, & not otherwise. I know the Papistes through foolish imitation of the Gentiles, haue brought in sundrie superstitions of the Gentiles. But I speake of the matter we haue in hande, that is inequalitie of degrées; and authoritie among the ministers of the Churche, and the names and offices of Archbishop, Bishop, Archdeacon, &c. which you neyther haue shewed, nor can shew to be brought into the Churche, by any imitation of the Gentiles, and therefore you do still Petere principium.

Chap. 5. the. 24. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 98. Sect. 2.

Galerianus Maximinus the Emperour to the ende that he might promote the idolatrie, and* 1.72 superstition where vnto he was addicted, chose o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the choysest magistrates to be priestes, and that they might be in great estimation gaue eche of them a trayne of men to followe them: (a) 1.73 and now the Christians and Christian Emperours thinking that that would promote the Christian reli∣gion, that promoted superstition, and not remembring that it is often tymes abhominable before God, which is esteemed in the eies of men▪ endeuoured to make their Bishops encoūter and match with those idolatrous priestes, and to cause that they should not be inferiour to them in wealth and outwarde pompe. And therefore I conclude, that seing the causes and fountaynes, from whence this pompe and statelinesse of Bishops haue come, are so corrupt and naught, the thing it self which hath rysen of such causes can not be good.

Io. Whitgifte.

There is no such thing in that place of Eusebius quoted in your margent: for in that booke and chapter of Eusebius, he onely sheweth that Inchaunters and Sorcerers were greatly estéemed of Maximinus, and that he buylded Churches of Idols in euery Citie, and appoynted idolatrous Priestes in euery place, also that he placed in euery prouince one to be chiefe ouer the rest, & furnished him with souldiers and seruants: but there is not one woorde, that any Christian Prince toke any example of him to do the like in Christianitie. It rather appeareth that Maximinus did in this point imitate the Christians, who had theyr Metropolitanes, and one chiefe Bishop in euery pro∣uince long before this time, as I haue declared before. And I sée no cause why you should say that Christians did follow the Gentiles rather in prouiding for the mini∣sters of the Gospell sufficiently, than in buylding of Churches in euery Citie, and pla∣cing ministers in them, for Maximinus did this aswell as he did the other. This I am well assured of, that there is no such signification in that place of Eusebius, that any Christian Prince should follow this example. And therefore your conclusion beyng collected and gathered of such false and vntrue coniectures, must néedes be lyke vnto them.

I do not speake to mayntayne any excessiue or outrageous pompe, but I speake of the 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉egrees in the Ecclesiasticall state, and of the manners and conditions of the persons, as they be now according to the lawes and customes allowed in this Church of England.

Chap. 5. the. 25. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 98. Sect. 3.

And thus will I make an end〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, leauing to the consideration and indifferent waying of the in∣different reader, how true it is that I haue before propounded, that our Archbishops, Metropo∣litanes, Archdeacons, Bishops, haue besides the names almoste nothing common 〈◊〉〈◊〉 those, which haue bene in 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lder tymes, before the sunne of the Gospell beganne to be maruelously darke∣ned, by the stinking mistes which the Diuell sent forth out of the bottomlesse pit, to blynde the eyes of men, that they should not see the shame and nakednesse of that purpled whoore, which in the per∣son of the Cleargie, long before she gatte into hir seate, prepared hir selfe by payntyng hi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 writhen face, with the colours of these gorgeous titles, and with the shewe of magnificall and worldly pompe. For the Diuell knewe well inough, that if he should haue set vp one onely Byshop in that seate of perdition, and lefte all the reste in that simplicitie, wherein God had appoynted them, that his eldest sonne shoulde neyther haue had any way to get into that, and when he had gotten it, yet beyng as it were an owle amongst a sorte of byrdes, should haue bene quickly discouered.

Io. Whitgifte.

And I also leaue it to the iudgement of the learned and indifferent Reader, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 consider by that, which I haue sayde before, how vntrue all this is, that you here af∣firme, (I speake of these degrées and offices as they be nowe vsed in this Churche of England) if there be any difference, it is bycause they haue not so large and ample iu∣risdiction and authoritie now, as they had then.

Sathan worketh by sundrie meanes, and spareth no fetches to bring to passe his* 1.74 purpose. Under the pretence of zeale, he hath ingendred sectes and schismes: vnder the title of puritie & perfection, he hath brought in heresie: vnder the cloake of simplicitie, he hath spread abrode many kindes of idolatrie and superstition: vnder the shadow of humilitie, he hath couered vntollerable ambition, and marueylous arrogancie: and what soeuer he bringeth to passe, commonly he doth it vnder the colour of vertue, and of that which is good: and therefore I thinke that euen vnder the names and titles of lawfull degrees and calling, he hath established vnlawfull authoritie: but neyther is true zeale, puritie, perfection, simplicitie, humilitie, nor yet lawfull degrées and cal∣lings therefore to be condemned. Viti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 (as Cyprian sayeth) vicin〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 sunt virtutibus: Vices* 1.75 be very nigh vnto vertues: and the one laboureth to imitate the other, but we must not therefore the lesse estéeme of vertue, but rather learne prudently to discerne what is the difference betwixt the one and the other. If we haue not learned this lesson, what state in the common wealth, what office, what degrée of person, nay what kinde of go∣uernment shall we allowe? it is the greatest folly in the worlde to condemne the thing it selfe, bycause of the abuse.

Chap. 5. the. 26. Diuision.

T. C Pag. 98. Sect. 3.

But I haue done, only this I admonish the reader that I do not allowe of all those thinges,* 1.76 which I before alleaged in the comparison betwene our Archbishops and the Archbishops of olde tyme, or our Bishops & theyrs. Onely my intent is to shew that although there were corrupti∣ons, yet in respect of ours they be much more tollerable: and that it might appeare how small cause there is, that they should alleage their examples, to confirme the Archbishops and Bishops that nowe are.

Io. Whitgifte.

You do well to worke surely, for now shall no man take any great aduauntage of your woordes, how be it, it had bene curteously done to haue let vs vnderstand what you allowe of this you haue wrytten, and what you allowe not. For in leauing the matter so rawly, you will make vs suspect, that you haue spoken you know not what.

Notes

• (a) 1.1

  An vnt〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉▪ 〈◊〉〈◊〉 there is no suche thing in that much cano〈1 line〉〈1 line〉▪
• * 1.2

  Chap. 9.
• (b) 1.3

  An 〈◊〉〈◊〉 truthe.
• * 1.4

  Co〈1 line〉〈1 line〉cels sum moned by Princes. Euse de vita Constan lib. 3.
• * 1.5

  Chap. 9.
• * 1.6

  T C con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉esseth Cyprian to be a Metropolitane.
• (*) 1.7

  This canon is 〈◊〉〈◊〉 both by adding, and 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• * 1.8

  34. Canon.
• (a) 1.9

  This you add vnto the canon.
• * 1.10

  The canon alledged a∣gainst him∣selfe.
• * 1.11

  Can. Apost. 34.
• * 1.12

  Platina cap Higin.
• (*) 1.13

  A grosse pe∣titio of the prin∣ciple, or rather an vntruth.
• * 1.14

  Can. 17.
• * 1.15

  No such thing in the. 17. canon.
• * 1.16

  Con. Antio. ca. 14.
• * 1.17

  The authori∣tie of Archby∣shops and by∣shops, lesse, than in times past.
• * 1.18

  Can. 12.
• * 1.19

  Can. 11.
• * 1.20

  Canon. 4.
• * 1.21

  Canon. 5.
• * 1.22

  Many vntruthes heaped togither
• * 1.23

  Euse. li. 6. cap. 1 Cypr. li. 4. ep. 8 Chrisostome.
• * 1.24

  Idem.
• * 1.25

  Tract. 3.
• * 1.26

  Tract. 18.
• (*) 1.27

  A worthy councell.
• * 1.28

  Hispal. con. ca.
• * 1.29

  A corrupt councell al∣ledged.
• * 1.30

  Hisp. Con. 2. Can. 7.
• * 1.31

  The councell alledged a∣gainst himself
• * 1.32

  T. C. char∣geth the office with the fault of the men.
• * 1.33

  Marke how this is proued.
• (*) 1.34

  It is an epistle o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Pope Zacha∣rie to Boniface, not of Zacharie to Pope Boni∣face.
• * 1.35

  Concil. to. 3 epist. Zacha Papae ad Bonifac.
• (a) 1.36

  An vntruth as will appeare.
• * 1.37

  The Epistle of Pope Za∣charie falsified
• (*) 1.38

  When, or where did God ordeyne this?
• * 1.39

  But one Bi∣shop in a citie
• (*) 1.40

  In what place of scripture▪
• (a) 1.41

  Is not this soundly proued▪
• * 1.42

  Sathan not the cause of one Byshop in one church.
• * 1.43

  14. Canon▪ it calleth it hospitiolū▪ 15. Canon.
• (a) 1.44

  No suche thing in that place.
• * 1.45

  5. Canon concil. Ty∣ronen〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.46

  Riches no impediment to godly men. Wherein our Bishops may be compared with the olde Bishops.
• * 1.47

  Can. 34.
• (*) 1.48

  He was re∣proued for vsing himselfe like a capitaine, be∣ing accompanied with a garde of souldiours.
• * 1.49

  Euseb. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. 7. cap. 30.
• (a) 1.50

  Gregorie for George.
• * 1.51

  Ruf. lib. 1. cap. 23.
• * 1.52

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, that is accom∣panied with spearemen, and halbardes. The example of P. Samo▪ vniustly ap∣plied to our Bishops.
• * 1.53

  Rufsin. lib. 1. cap. 23.
• * 1.54

  Theo. li. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 cap. 8.
• * 1.55

  Li. eodem cap. 18.
• * 1.56

  Pro. 27.
• * 1.57

  The tytle of most honou∣rable Lorde.
• * 1.58

  Rabbi.
• * 1.59

  Caluine.
• * 1.60

  Uerie honou∣rable titles gi∣uē to bishops.
• * 1.61

  Atban. Apol 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• (*) 1.62

  It was the house belonging to the Bishop.
• * 1.63

  A heape of slaunders.
• * 1.64

  Ambrose house within the bounds of the Church.
• * 1.65

  Bishops de∣fended against the slaunde∣rous replie.
• * 1.66

  Prouision 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ministers.
• * 1.67

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ròuision for the poore.
• * 1.68

  Where vnto the Repliers clamour ten∣deth. The same axe is lifted a∣gainst Uni∣uersities, that hacketh at by∣shops landes.
• * 1.69

  The thing must not be condemned for the abuse.
• (*) 1.70

  This is before answered.
• * 1.71

  T. C. still of∣fende〈1 line〉〈1 line〉h 〈◊〉〈◊〉 pe∣titione prin∣cip〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.72

  Euseb. 8. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 15.
• (a) 1.73

  A 〈◊〉〈◊〉 collection.
• * 1.74

  The subtiltie of Sathan in counterfeyte godlinesse must not pre∣iudice that which is true.
• * 1.75

  Discretion is very necessa∣ry.
• * 1.76

  A proper ca∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eat.