The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

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The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.
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Whitgift, John, 1530?-1604.
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Printed at London :: By Henry Binneman, for Humfrey Toye,
Anno. 1574.
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Subject terms
Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603. -- Replye to an answere made of M. Doctor Whitgifte -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Church of England -- Apologetic works -- Early works to 1800.
Episcopacy -- Early works to 1800.
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"The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A15130.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 15, 2024.

Pages

Of ministers hauing no pastorall charge, of cere∣monies vsed in ordeining ministers: of Apostles, Euange∣listes and Prophetes. Tract. 4. (Book 4)

Of ministers admitted, a place being not voyd.

Chap. 1. The first Diuision.
The Admonition.

The seuenth. Then none admitted to the ministerie, but (u) 1.1 a place was voyd afore hand, to which he should be called.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Page. 47. Sect. 1. 2.

TO proue this you cite in the margent the first of the Acts, wher it is declared howe Mathias was chosen in the place of Iudas, to make vp the number of the. xij. Apostles. Surely this is but a slen∣der reason: Mathias was chosen into the place of Iudas, Ergo, no man must be admitted into the ministerie, excepte a place before hande be voyde, to the which he should be called. Euery meane sophister will laugh at the childishnesse of this argument.

Mathias was chosen to be an Apostle, and not to any certaine cure, and therfore this example proueth nothing.

T. C. Page. 42. Sect. 4.

The reason is of greater force than you woulde seeme to make it, for as the. xij. place was to Mathias, so is a certain Church vnto a Pastor or Minister, & as the Apostles ordeined none vnto that place before it was voyd, so ought not the Bishop ordeyn any vntil there be a Churche voyde and destitute of a pastor. And as the Apostles ordeined not any Apostle, further than they had te∣stimonie* 1.2 of the word of God, as it appeareth that S. Peter proceedeth by that rule to the election, so ought no Bishop ordeyn any to any function, which is not in the scripture appointed. But there are by the word of God, at this tyme no ordinarie ministers Ecclesiastical, which be not local, and tyed to one congregation, therfore this sending abrode of ministers whiche haue no places, is vn∣lawfull.

Io. Whitgifte.

As theyr reason is farre from good reason, so are your similitudes farre from pro∣uing the same: & the Logitians say, Soluitur sunilitudo, ostensa dissimilitudine. First, ther is great difference betwixte the office of an Apostle, and the office of a Pastor, as you must néedes confesse. Then is there also difference in the number: for the Apostles whiche were chosen of Christe to be witnesses of his Resurrection, were twelue, and therfore the number certain: but the number of Preachers and Pastors is not limi∣ted, but the mo the better: Thirdly, there was one chosen in the place of Iudas, that the Scripture might be fulfilled as Peter saith Act. 1. but there is no such thing in the election of Pastors & other ministers. Moreouer it was the twelfth place in number that Mathias was chosen vnto, and not any locall place, such as pastors take charge of. Wherfore except you can make a certayn number, and no certain number: a local prescript and definite cure, and a generall charge without prescription of any certain place, all one, or at the least verie like: this argument, Mathias was chosen into the place of Iudas: ergo, no man muste bee admitted into the ministerie, excepte he haue a Cure,

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muste of necessitie be a very childishe and fonde argument. And how ofte shall I tell you, that to reason àfacto ad ius, of an example to make a generall rule, is a very vnskil∣full kinde of rasoning, excepte there be some generall rule and commaundement ac∣cording to that example.

But was not Paule added to the number of the Apostles, though there were no* 1.3 place voyde? Were not also Barnabas Act. 14. Epaphroditus Phil. 2. Andronicus and Iunia, Rom. 16. called Apostles? I might therefore as wel reason thus, Paule, Barnabas. &c. were called to be Apostles when there was no place voyde, Ergo some maye be called to the preaching of the Gospell, though they haue no certayne cure. But let vs sée how you will iustifie this assertion, that there are no ordinarie ministers ec∣clesiasticall, which be not locall, and tyed to one congregation. &c. For I vtterly denie it, in that sense that you speake it.

Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision.
T. C. Page. 42. Sect. 5.

And that it may the better appeare, that those functions doe onely remayne, whiche are ap∣poynted to one certayne place, and that the Reader maye haue the clearer and playner vnderstan∣ding of all this matter, all the whole ecclesiasticall function maye be well deuided: first into extra∣ordinarie, or those that endured for a time, and into ordinarie, whiche are perpetuall. Of the firste sorte are the Apostles, and Euangelistes, whiche the Lorde vsed for a time, as it were, for chiefe Masons, and principall buylders of his Churche, as well to laye the foundations of Churches where none were〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 as also to aduaunce them to suche forwardnesse and height, vntill there might be gotten, for the finishing of the buylding and house of the Churche, fitte pastors, Elders, and Dea∣cons. And that beeing done, they went from those places into others, which thing may be percey∣ued by the continuall storie of the Actes of the Apostles, and by diuers sentences which are founde in the Epistles of S. Paule. And therfore also when the Churches haue bin by Antichrist euen rased from the foundations, God hath stirred vp Euangelists, euen immediatly by his spirite, with∣out any calling of men, to restore his Churches agayne: of whiche sorte was Master Wickli〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e in our Countrey, M. Hus, and Hierome of Prage in Bohemia, Luther and Zuinglius in Ger∣manie. &c. And after this sort God may at his good pleasure work, when he purposeth to set in his Gospell in any nation, where the whole face of the earth is couered with the darknesse of igno∣rance, and want of the knowledge of God.

Io. Whitgifte.

Althoughe you can not warrant by the Scriptures this distinction of ordinarie and* 1.4 extraordinarie ecclesiasticall functions, yet I thinke the Apostolicall function was ex∣traordinarie, in respect that it had for the time certayne especiall properties, as to beare witnesse of the resurrection of Christ, and of his assention, whiche they dyd sée with their eyes: also to plant & to found Churches: Likewise to go throughout the whole worlde. These I say were temporall and extraordinarie, and so was the Apo∣stleship in this respect, but yet ordinarie in respect of their chiefe function, which was to preache the Gospell, and to gouerne the Churches whiche they had planted. Like∣wise Euangelistes haue an ordinarie function, neyther is there any cause why it should be called a temporall office, but onely in respect of writing the Gospell, for there is none that thinketh the office of preaching to be eyther extraordinarie or temporall.

But I pray you let me aske you one question, why should not the office of Seniors be aswell extraordinarie and temporall, as the office of an Apostle, or an Euangelist? for as you saye: that the Apostleship and Euangelistship remayned, vntil there might be gotten for the finishing of the buylding and house of the Churche fytte Pastors. &c. So say I, that the office of Seniors and Elders might remayne in the Churche, vntill there were chri∣stian Princes and Magistrates, by whome the people of God might be kepte in peace and quietnesse, and the Churches of Christ more perfectly gouerned. And wel assured I am, that there are as good reasons for this, as there are for the other. For as in the place of the Apostles, Euangelistes. &c. are succéeded Bishops, Pastors, Doctors: so I may say, that in the place of Elders and Seniors, are come Christian Princes and Magistrates.

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As for this parte of the Apostles function, to visite suche Churches as were be∣fore planted, and to prouide that suche were placed in them, as were vertuous and godly Pastors: I knowe it remayneth still, and is one of the chiefe partes of* 1.5 the Bishops function, as shall hereafter more at large appeare.

I graunte that Master Hus, Hierome of Prage, &c. were stirred vp euen by God, to preache his truthe, and open the doore of his worde agayne, yet were they cal∣led to some function of the Churche before, althoughe that function were for the moste parte, wicked, and the Church almost wholly corrupted with superstition and errors: But why you shoulde rather call them Euangelistes, than Apostles, Pro∣phetes, Pastors, or Doctors, I knowe not: especially séeing some of them had or∣dinarie charges.

Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 1.

Of this sorte of extraordinarie functions, are the Prophets also, which besides a singular dex∣teritie, and readinesse of expounding the Scriptures, had also the gifte of telling things to come, whiche, bicause it is not nowe ordinarily, I thinke there is none will denie, but it is an extraordi∣narie calling, for the other two of the Apostles and Euangelistes, it shall appeare more at large hereafter (by occasion giuen by M. Doctor) that they are but for a time.

Io. Whitgifte.

If you meane Prophetes, in the respecte of the gifte of telling thinges to come,* 1.6 suche as Agabus was, then be they temporall, but yet ordinarie for the tyme wher∣in* 1.7 they were: But if you meane Prophets in respecte of their dexteritie and readi∣nesse in expounding the Scriptures, suche as Barnabas was, and Simon, Lucius,* 1.8 &c. and Saule. Likewyse suche as Iudas and Silas. Actes. 15. and suche as the A∣postle* 1.9 S. Paule speaketh of. 1. Corinth. 14. I sée no cause why eyther the calling* 1.10 should be extraordinary, or the ffice and gifte temporall, excepte you haue a libertie to make temporall and perpetuall, ordinarie and extraordinarie, what you please. But seeing you woulde haue all thinges proued by Scripture, I pray you proue this that you haue sayde, eyther of the Aposles, Euangeliss, or Prophetes by the Scripture, séeing you teache that of them, which seemeth to be contrary vnto the Scripture.

Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 43. Sect 2.

The ordinarie and continuall functions of the Churche are also deuided into two partes, for eyther they are they that gouerne or take charge of the whole Churche, as are those, which are cal∣led Elders, or they which take charge of one parte of the Churche (whiche is the poore of euery Churche) as are those which are called Deacons. Those agayne that be called Presbyteri, which we tearme Elders of the Churche, and haue to doe with the whole Churche, are eyther those, whiche teache and preache the worde of God, and gouerne too, or else whiche gouerne onely, and do not teache or preache. Of the first kinde are Pastors, and Doctors. Or the second are those, which are called by the common name of Elders, or auncientes. Of all this ordinarie function I shall haue occasion to speake, and of euery one shall appeare that (which I haue sayde before) that they are no vncertayne and vndefinite ministeries, but suche as are limitted vnto a certayne Churche and congregation. And first of all, for the Pastor or Bishop, whiche is heere mentioned, whiche name soéuer we consider of them, they doe foorthwith, assoone as they are once eyther spoken, or thought of, imply and inferre a certayne and definite chrge, beeing as the Logitians terme them, actuall relatiues. For what shepheard can there be, vnlesse he haue a flocke? and howe can he be a watcheman, vnlesse he haue some citie to looke vnto? Or howe can a man be a master, vnlesse he haue a seruaunt? or a father vnlesse he haue a childe? Nowe if you will saye that they haue a charge, and they haue flocks, and cities to attende and watche vpon, for a whole shire, or prouince, or realme, are their flockes, and their Cities, and their charges.

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Io. Whitgifte.

This diuision also is of your owne inuenting: neyther haue you any mention of Seniors, (as you call them) or of Deacons in that fourth Chapter to the Ephesi. whiche you would haue to be so perfecte a rulè of ecclesiasticall functions. As for Pastors and Doctors, you knowe that diuers bothe auncient and late writers, as namely Hierome, Augustine, Chrysostome, Musculus, and Bucer, &c. do confounde them, and the reason that Hieroine vseth can not be well denyed, because the A∣postle sayth not as he dyd before of the other: alios Pastores, alios Doctores, some Pastors,* 1.11 and other some Doctors, but he ioyneth them togither, and sayth: alios Pastores & Doctores, some Pastors and Doctors. M〈1 line〉〈1 line〉reouer I sée not howe you can iustifie your di∣uision of Seniors by the worde of God, as I shall further declare in that place, where* 1.12 you more largely speake of them: In the meane time, I sée no reason why your vnpreaching and vnministring Seniors, shoulde haue any perpetuitie in the Churche, more than Apostles, for the cause that I haue before alleadged: neyther haue you yet proued, that the Deacons office is onely to prouide for the poore: you haue examples to the contrarie, as I haue declared in my Answere. To be shorte, I vnderstande not howe you can make Doctors, gouernours of any seuerall parishes and Churches, except you will make them Pastors.

But bicause you onely speake héere, and proue nothing, I will differre a further answere, vnti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉l I heare more sounde argumentes.

You saye, a shepheard can not be, vnlesse he haue a flocke. &c. all which is true: but he is also a shepheard that hath mo flockes, and he is a shepheard, that hathe a generall care and ouersight of many shepheards, and many flockes. For he that hathe many flockes, and many shepheards, may haue one master shepheard to sée that all the rest doe their duties, and that the shéepe be kepte in good order. And thoughe euery seuerall Citie haue seuerall watchemen whiche watche by course, yet maye there be one that hathe an especiall care ouer all, and is appoynted to see the rest do their duties: So one master maye haue many seruauntes, one father many children. Wherefore if you vse this reason to improue the office of a Bishop, it lacketh mighte: if to proue that a Pastour muste haue a flocke, no man dothe denie it: but if to conclude, that no man maye preache, vnlesse he haue a certayne flocke, there is no sequele at all in it: for first you muste proue that the onely office of a Pastor is nowe remayning in the Churche, and that no man can be minister of the words and Sacraments, except he be a Pastor of some certayne flocke, for that doe I con∣stantly denie.

Chapter. 1. the. 5. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 3.

First of all in your reading ministers that is vntrue, for they goe not to 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eade in all Chur∣ches, but 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉arrie till they be hyred in one. And therfore when the Bishop hath layde his hande of* 1.13 them▪ they are no more Ministers, than before his hande came vpon them, bicause they haue no charges, and therefore the patrone or person that hireth them to reade, and setteth them a worke are their Bishops, and make them ministers, and not the Bishop of the Diocesse.

Io. Whitgifte.

These be but words grounded vpon this false principle, that none oug〈1 line〉〈1 line〉te to be admitted into the ministerie, but suche as haue a certayne cure and charge, which you are neuer able to proue, eyther by Scripture or good reason: but the con∣trarie is manyfest by bothe.

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Chapter. 1. the. 6. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 4.

Secondarily, for those that preache to haue a whole Diocesse, or Prouince, or Realme to be their flocke, or Citie to attende vpon, is contrarie to the pollicie or good husbandrie of all those that woulde eyther haue their Citie safe, or their flockes sounde. For who are they, whyche woulde appoynte one for the watche of a thousande townes or cities, when as all they, whiche loue their safetie, woulde rather haue for euery citie many watchemen, than for many cities one? Or what is he, that is so watchefull and circumspecte, whose diligence and watchefulnesse, one citie assaulted with enimies, will not wholly occupie and take vp? Or what is he, whose sighte is so sharpe, that he can see from one ende of the Diocesse, or Prouince, or realme, to the other ende thereof? Or what is he, that will committe the keeping of twentie thousande sheepe to one man, that looketh for any good or encrease of them? Howe shall all these heare his whistle, howe shall all knowe his voyce, when they can not heare it? Howe shall they acknowledge him, when they can not knowe him? howe shall they followe him, when they can not see him goe before? howe shall he heale their diseases, when he can not possibly knowe them? But some man will saye, that these are humaine reasons, and likelyhoodes, whiche may be ouerthrowne with other si∣militudes: These notwithstanding are Analogies drawne from the nature of those things, which the Ministers are likened vnto, and are of the moste parte vsed of the holy Ghost him selfe expressely.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is a great poynte of good husbandrie and pollicie also, to haue, besides the seuerall shepheardes ouer seuerall flockes, and sundry watchemen ouer sundry Ci∣ties, diuers other to féede the shéepe, as occasion serueth, and to admonishe the watchemen and the Cities of their dueties: else why dydde the Apostles after they hadde planted the Churches, and placed Shepheardes and watchemen ouer them, so diligentlye afterwardes vysite them, and so carefullye looke vnto them, as we reade Actes. 14. 15. 18? Was the watche thinke you the worse kepte, or the shéepe the negligentlyer looked vnto? The pollicie that Darius vsed Daniel. 6. when he appoynted a hundreth and twenty gouernours ouer all hys Realme, and ouer them thrée to ouersée them, and take an accompte of their do∣inges, is greatly commended: and why maye not this pollicie be necessarie in the Ecclesiasticall state also? But you héere runne smothely away with the matter, and suppose that there may not be for seuerall Cities, and seuerall flockes, seue∣rall watchemen and shepheardes, bicause there be some that haue a generall care ouer many flockes and Cities. If a thousande Townes or Cities haue a thou∣sande watchemen appoynted vnto them, to haue the particular care ouer them, and also one, two, or moe to haue a generall care bothe ouer the watchemen, and ouer the Cities also, doe you not thinke that all shall be in better order, and in muche more safetie?

But your similitudes fayle maruellously in sundrie poyntes, whiche I muste* 1.14 admonishe you of, bicause you glorie so muche in them, and thinke that you haue reasoned strongly, when you haue vsed the weakest kinde of argument that can be, to proue any thing: for as the Logitians saye, Similitudo rem illustrat, sed non pro∣bat: A similitude maketh a matter playne, but proueth it not. And it is easely ouer∣throwne by shewing the vnlikelyhoode: In this the similitude agréeth, that as euery Citie muste haue a watcheman, and euery flocke a shephearde, so euery Churche or Parishe muste haue a watcheman or a Pastour: and as the watchman and shephearde his office is to watche and to féede, and to haue a necessarie care o∣uer their charges, so muste also the Spirituall watcheman and shephearde haue a care ouer the people committed vnto them. All this is true, and neyther pro∣ueth nor improueth any thing that is in question. I mighte as well saye, that if the Citie be well watched, and the flocke carefully looked vnto, thoughe it be not by the watcheman or shephearde him selfe, but by his meanes and procurement,

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there can be no iuste faulte founde with eyther of them. Likewyse, that when the shephearde hathe broughte his shéepe into a pasture where they maye bothe be sure from all daunger, and haue meate sufficient, then his presence is not so necessarie for them, so that he doe sometymes visite them. Also that there is no one watche∣man, that eyther dothe or can watche continually, but muste of necessitie haue his reste, so that some other supplie hys absence: and likewyse, that there is no master shephearde, but that he hathe some vnder him, eyther boye, or man, to supply his absence whylest he is aboute other matters. To be shorte, that one shephearde hathe care ouer sundrie mennes shéepe, sundrie flockes of sundrie Townes and Parishes, &c. Dyuers other suche similitudes of shepheardes and watchemen mighte I also vse, to proue many thinges contrarie to your meaning. I mighte also shewe vnto you the dissimilitude betwixte a temporall shephearde. and a spirituall shephearde: vnreasonable shéepe that can not féede them selues, or by any meanes prouyde for them selues, nor haue any charge so looke to them selues, and reasonable shéepe, suche as God hathe endued with knowledge, to whome hée hathe lefte hys wóorde, whyche conteyneth in it suffyciente to saluation, whome he hathe charged to reade it, and to heare it: who shall al∣so answere for them selues. &c. Finally▪ what difference there is betwixte tem∣porall meate and drinke, whiche is soone digested, and therefore dayly to be re∣newed: and spirituall foode whiche continueth, and whereof he that hath once suffi∣ciently tasted, shall not hunger or thirst. &c. These I saye, and a greate number of other dissimilitudes coulde I bring, to ouerthrowe all that you can buylde vpon these similitudes.

I mighte further saye, that in the Prophetes, and other places of the Scriptures, Kinges and mightie Princes that haue ample and large Dominions, be called* 1.15 bothe shepheardes and watchemen, as namely in Ieremy. 2〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Ezechiell. 34. &c. and* 1.16 therefore all those your reasons mighte aswell be alleadged agaynst them, and of them also mighte you saye, What is he, whose sighte is so sharpe, that he can see from one ende of the Diocesse, Prouince, or Realme, to another? For these names be as com∣mon, and as vsuall to Kinges and Princes, as they be to Ministers of the worde and Bishops. And truely if these similitudes sinke once into the peoples heades, and bée applyed vnto ciuill gouernment, (agaynst whiche they bée as forceable, as agaynst the ecclesiasticall) they will as easily, and farre more easily stirre them vp, to séeke alteration in that also.

Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 4. 5.

But that there be no controuersie lefte in this poynte, what is (*) 1.17 a flocke? S. Paule de∣fineth it playnely, when he saythe: appoynt Pastors, or Elders, or Bishops (for these wordes are indifferently vsed) throughe, not euery Shire, or Prouince, or Realme, but throughe euery Citie, or Towne. And least that any man shoulde heere take occasion to conclude, that then it is lawfull for one man to bee Bishoppe or Pastor of a whole Citie, suche as London, or Yorke. &c.

S. Luke in the Actes dothe declare the meaning of this place, where he sayth that they ap∣poynted Elders throughout euery congregation, so that if the Citie or Towne be great, and the professours of the Gospell in it, be more than will make conueniently a congregation, then there muste bee, by the rule of God (*) 1.18 more Pastours and Bishops. Wherevpon it appeareth that bothe no Pastour or Bishoppe oughte to bee made without there be a flocke, as it were a voyde place for him, and that a flocke is not a Realme, or Prouince, or Diocesse (as we now call a Dio∣cesse) but so many as may conueniently meete in one assemblie or congregation. And that this is the meaning of Sainct Paule, it appeareth by the practise of the Churches from tyme to tyme, whiche haue bothe decreed agaynst, and founde faulte wyth these wandering and rouyng ministeries.

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Io. Whitgifte.

It is manyfest that S. Paule willed Titus to appoynte presbyteros (for that* 1.19 worde he vseth) in euery Citie, for so dothe he also saye. But what can you heereof conclude? What sequele is there in this argument: Sainct Paule willed Timothie to appoynt Ministers in euery Citie, Ergo, there muste be none admitted to the ministerie of the worde, but suche as haue some certayne cure? or therefore one man maye not haue the ouersighte and direction of many cures? In déede if S. Paule had sayde to Ti∣tus, thou shalte appoynte no Ministers of the worde, or Seniors, but to a certayne cure, or admitte none to preache the Gospell, except he haue some one place certenly appoynted vnto him: then your reason had bin something. But now it hath no shew of any argument.

The place Act. 14. tendeth to the same purpose, neyther is there one worde there to proue that suche maye not preache the worde, as haue no certayne charge com∣mitted vnto them: but the contrarie rather: for Paule and Barnabas, thoughe they dyd appoynte in euery Churche Ministers, yet dyd they preache themselues also. And I heare no reason yet, why bothe these maye not be true, that euery Churche shoulde haue a Pastour, and yet that some may be admitted to preache the worde, that haue no seuerall churches. This I am sure was vsuall in the Apostles time, and it is nowe most profitable, neither is there one title in the whole scripture against it. And you your selfe haue bin in that case euer since you were preacher, and remayne so still for any thing that I knowe.

Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 44. Sect. 1.

The great Councell of Calcedon decreed that no Eider or Deacon, or any other in the eccle∣siasticall* 1.20 order shoulde be ordeyned 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: that is, losely, and as it were let goe at ran∣don whither he himselfe 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sted, whiche he also interpreteth by and by more playnely, when he ad∣deth,* 1.21 that he shoulde not be ordeyned 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: that is, vnlesse it be specially in a congregation of some citie or towne. And in the Councell of Urban (as Gratian reporteth, distinction. 70.) it was decreed that the ordination, that was made without any title, shoulde be voyde, and what that meaneth, is shewed by and by, when it is sayde, and in what Church any is intitled, there let him always remayne. And this is also(*) 1.22 S. Hierome his* 1.23 complaynt, in that men were ordeyned vnto the ministerie, when they were chosen by no Churche, and so wente rounde about, hauing no certayne place. And therefore this, that none oughte to preache, vnlesse he haue some pastorall charge, oughte not to haue beene so straunge a thing vn∣to you, as you make it, if eyther the Scriptures, or the Councels, or the auncient Fathers, hadde beene so well knowne vnto you, as eyther your name requireth, or you take vpon you, whyche dare so boldely pronounce, that there can be shewed no texte of Scripture for the matter.

Io. Whitgifte.

You are notable in falsifying and coruptly alleaging of the authorities of Fa∣thers and Councels, and a singular grace you haue, bothe in ascribing that vn∣to them, whiche they haue not, and in otherwyse reporting that which they haue: as you doe nowe in this place deale with the Councell of Calcedon: for you say, that Councell decreed that no Elder or Deacon. &c. shoulde bee ordeyned 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: that is losely. &c. And you adde, that he interpreteth this more playnely, when he addeth that he shoulde not be ordeyned 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: that is, vnlesse it be speciallye in a congregation of some citie or towne. But you haue craftily lefte out that which maketh agaynst you, and playnely openeth the meaning of the Councel, which is this, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. &c.

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The whole Canon is this, Nullum absolutè ordinari debere presbyterum aut Diaconum, ńec quemlibet in gradu ecclesiastico, nisi specialiter in ecclesia ciuitatis aut pagi, aut in martyrio, aut monasterio, qui ordinandus est, pronuncietur. Qui verò absolutè ordinantur▪ decreuit Sancta syno∣dus,* 1.24 irritam haberi 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uiusmodi manus impositionem, & nusquàm posse ministrare ad ordinantis ignominiam. Wherby it is plaine, that the meaning of the Councell is to haue none ad∣mitted into any Ecclesiasticall degrée, except he haue some thing to liue vpon, and not that he must of necessitie haue some cure: for then would not the councell haue sayd aut in martyrio, aut monasterio, for these be no pastorall charges: neither yet woulde it haue added aut Diaconum aut quemlibet in gradu ecclesiastico, Deacons or any other in eccle∣siastical degree: bicause euery one admitted in aliquem gradum ecclesiasticum, into any eccle∣siasticall degree, is not admitted to a cure. Wherefore the glosse in Gratian doth well interpret the meaning of this Canon, when it saith that nonc is to be ordeined sine ti∣tulo,* 1.25 without a title, ne dicatur, mendicat in plateis infoelix clerious: least it be saide, an vnhap∣pie clerke beggeth in the streates: and further addeth thus, colligitur etiam bic, ex eo quod dicit, siue possessionis, argumentum, quod si quis habet patrimonium sufficiens ordinari potest sine titulo: an argument may also here be gathered, in that it sayth (or of possession) that if any haue sufficient patrimonie, he may be ordeyned without a title. But these words, siue in martyrio siue in monasterio, do manifestly declare that the Councell would haue none ad∣mitted to any Ecclesiasticall function without some stay of liuing, either of some be∣nefice, Monasterie, Colledge, Chappell, his owne possessions, or such like: as the practise of the Church vnder the Pope is at this day. And yet if any man should say, that out o this Canon there can be nothing gathered, but onely this, in what places those that are called to the ministerie are to be admitted and ordeined, I knowe not howe you could answere it, for the wordes of the Canon admit that sense most properly.

That decrée of Vrban hath the same meaning, and that which followeth, of remay∣ning continually in that Church, in the which he is intituled, doth but signifie that he must be assured of his lyuing, whervnto he is intituled during his life: for the same Canon doth permit one man to haue two Churches, but yet that he ought not to be canonicus prebendarius, but onely of one Church wherof he is intituled. But I can not but mar∣ueile that you will vse the testimonie of this Councell of Pope Vrban, which was hol∣den at the least an. 1090. after Christ, euen in the most corrupte time, when as Anti∣christ had fully possessed the sea of Rome, in the which Councell among other things (a) 1.26 he confirmed the actes of Pope Hildebrand against Henrie the Emperour. This Vr∣ban also was the confirmer of the superstitious orders of the (b) 1.27 Cistercian friers, and (c) 1.28 Carthusian Monkes, he likewise deposed (d) 1.29 Deacons that were maried, from their or∣ders: And (e) 1.30 forbad (by the Councell of the traiterous Archbishop Anselme) that any Clearke should receiue beneficiorum inuestituram, or any Ecclesiasticall dignitie, of any Prince or lay man, but (f) 1.31 onely of the Pope. And that you may yet further vnder∣stand what a worthie patrone you haue gotten for your cause, this Vrban was he that was author (g) 1.32 of the Canonicall houres, commonly called our Ladies Psalter.

Certainly Hierome sayth no suche thing in that Epistle, you are disposed to father that of him that he neuer spake▪ His complaint was that much cost was bestowed vpon Churches in adorning and decking of them, and little regarde to the choise of Ministers, meaning that they had more care to haue gorgious Churches than good Ministers. But what is this to your purpose?

Thus haue you proued neither by Scripture, nor by Councell, nor Doctor (truely alleaged and vnderstanded) that none maye preache, vnlesse he haue some pastorall charge, and I still affirme that you haue not one texte of Scripture soundyng that way, where there are to the contrarie sundry examples, as I haue alleaged.

Chap. 1. the. 9. Diuision.
Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 77. Sect. 2.

If you had vsed moe reasons, I would haue answered them, what

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certaine cure had Paule, Barnabas, Philip, Epaphroditus, Andronicus, Iunius, & yet they were not of the twelue Apostles? It is a straunge doctrine to teache that a man may not preache out of his owne cure: It is more straunge to say, that it is not lawfull for him to preache, except he haue some pastorall cure, beyng of him selfe able to liue, and not minding to be burdensome to the Churche? If you seeke for any text in the scripture to confirme this doctrine, you can finde none: if you seke for examples to the contrarie, you shall finde plentie.

T. C. Pag. 44. Sect. 2. 3. 4.

But you aske what place Paule and Barnabas had appoynted them. What meane you ther∣by to conclude, that bycause Paule and Barnabas the Apostles had no place appoynted them, ther∣fore a Pastor or Bishop shoulde not? when this is one difference betwene the Apostle and By∣shop, that the one hath no certaine place appoynted, and the other hath. But I thinke I smell out your meaning, which is, that we may make Apostles also at these dayes, and that that function is not yet ceased, for otherwise your reason is nothyng worthe. Likewyse also you aske of Philip, which was an Euangelist. And so you thinke that these running Ministers are lawfull, bycause they are Apostles and Euangelistes, against which I shall haue occasion to speake shortly after in the. 50. Page. But if a manne be able to liue of hym selfe, and mynde not to be burdensome to the Churche, it seemeth vnreasonable vnto you, that he may not goe aboute and preache throughout all Churches.

Dyd you neuer reade any learned disputation, and that of learned writers in our dayes aboute* 1.33 this question: whether (although it be lawfull) it be expedient that a man beyng able and willing to liue of him selfe, ought to take wages of the Churche, for inconueniences which mighte ensue of taking nothing? I doe but aske you the question, bycause you make so greate a wonder at thys, for I will not take vpon me heere the defense of it, bycause I will not multiple questions.

And why I praye you maye not that manne that is so able, and will be content to liue of him selfe, why I saye may not he teache and be the Pastor of some Churche? Doe you thinke that for hys forbearing the wages of the Churche, he may breake the (a) 1.34 lawes & orders that God hath established?

Io. Whitgifte.

It is a good reason to proue that there may be preachers of the worde, which haue no certaine cure, and doth cleane ouerthrowe your former answere to the place Acto. 1. for Paule and Barnabas were not chosen into any vacant place as Matthias was, and therfore that reason is no reason. I doe not say a Bishop or Pastor should not haue a place appointed vnto them (for I know Bishops and Pastors haue their cures limi∣ted) but this I saye, that some may be preachers and Ministers of the worde, which haue no certaine cure. Neyther is this true that all suche as be admitted to the prea∣ching of the word, be either Bishops or Pastors.

Against Apostles and Euangelistes we shall vnderstande what you haue to saye, when we come to that place.

You aske me whether I euer read any learned disputations. &c. I mighte aske you the same question, for you vtter no great reading here, only you alleage Peter Martyr vp∣on. 1. Cor. 9. where he speaketh little of this matter. For the question is not whether a man hauing a Pastorall cure, and sufficient of his owne to lyue, may cease to take th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 ordinarie stipend of his Church or no, which is that, that Peter Martyr handleth in that place, and wherof he maketh this resolution, that he should doe that therein, that maye most profitte the Church, and further the Gospell, and yet to be most expedient to take the accustomed stipend, although S. Ambrose Lib. 1. off. cap. 36. and diuerse other be of the con∣trarie iudgement. But this is our controuersie, whether a man hauing sufficient to lyue of by him selfe, may not be admitted to the preaching of the Gospell, excepte he haue some Pastorall cure. S. Paule in that Chapter gloryeth that he tooke nothing of the Corinthians, & Peter Martyr in the same place sayth that Paule would take nothing* 1.35 that he might the more freely reprehend.

You aske me also why that man, that is so able, and will be content, may not teach, and be the Pastor of a Church. &c. I answere, that he may and if he will. But I aske you agayne,

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what if he be perswaded that he shall doe more good, by going to suche places, where there is greater want of preaching? What lawe or order is there established by God to the contrarie? where is that law or that order? Set it truely downe, and I yelde vnto it: else can I not but dissent from you, séeyng I sée manifest examples in the Scripture to the contrarie: and euē your owne example, also in your owne person, which ought to haue moued you to a publike confession, if you haue all this while vsurped an vn∣lawfull vocation: as certeinly you haue done, if this your assertion be true.

Of Ceremonies vsed in ordeyning Ministers.

Chap. 2. the first Diuision.
The Admonition.

But now Byshops (to whome the right of ordering Ministers doth at no hand apperteine) doe make, 60. 80. or. 100. at a clappe, and sende them abroade into the countrey lyke masterlesse men.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 47. Sect. 3.

That the ordering of Ministers doth apperteine to Byshops pro∣perly,* 1.36 which you here vtterly denie, I haue proued before: they be beste able to iudge of mens abilitie to that function. It is their espe∣ciall charge to see that there be meete Ministers in the Churche, and therfore good reason that they should haue the chiefe stroke in orde∣ring of them: & yet in that businesse they trust not themselues alone, they haue other godly and learned ministers to assist them in exami∣ning suche as are to be admitted: they also require a testimoniall of life and conuersation from that place, wherein those that are to be Ministecs haue bene latest and longest remaining.

Page. 48. Sect. 1. 2.

If such numbers as you say be admitted at one tyme, and sent a∣broade lyke maisterlesse men, that is the faulte of the person, not of the law: neyther is it a sufficient cause to debarre any learned, god∣ly and meete man from the ministerie, able to lyue of him selfe, or ha∣uing any other Ecclesiasticall liuing, as prebend, felowship in some colledge of eyther vniuersitie, or suche like, thoughe he haue no Pa∣storall charge and cure, neyther shall you euer be able to proue, but that a man disposed and able to doe good in the Churche of Christe, may be admitted into the ministerie, although he haue no ecclesiasti∣call liuing at all.

I mislike runnagates and masterlesse men, and such as are com∣pelled to seke vp and downe to get them seruices aswell as you: and I hope the redresse thereof is alreadie determined.

T. C. Page. 44. Sect. 4.

For the rest conteyned in those Pages touching the ordeining of Ministers or Byshops I haue before spoken at large.

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Io. Whitgifte.

You haue not answered to the most of this, that is in this portion conteined, and e∣specially touching ordeining of Bishops and ministers.

Chap. 2. the second Diuision.
Admonition.

The eyght. Then after iust triall and vocation they were admitted to their function, by lay∣ing on of the hands of the company of the(vv) 1.37 eldership onely.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 49. Sect. 1. 2.

Of tryall and vocation I haue spoken before. To proue laying on* 1.38 of hands. &c. is alleaged the first of Timothie the fourth Chapter, this is but a ceremonie, and it is now vsed: for the Bishop and other learned and graue Ministers there present, doe lay their hands vpon such as are admitted into the ministerie.

Now if you would knowe what is here ment by seniors, you may learne if you please of Oecumenius a learned and olde writer, who ex∣poundeth this place of Timothie on this sort, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. By seniors he meaneth Byshops: and so saythe Chrysostome inlike maner.

T. C. Pag. 44. Sect. 5.

Oecumenius and Chrysostome say, that by Elders he meaneth Bishops (a) 1.39 not thereby to seuere th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉se that had the gouernment of the Churche togither with the pastor and minister of the worde, which were called auncients, as you seeme to meane: but to put distinction betweene those which are Elders by age, and Elders by office, besides that it is before alleaged that it maye be, that the pastor or Bishop dyd in the name of all the Elders lay on his handes vpon him that was ordeyned. And lastly, you knowe, and can not denie, that S. Paule in one or two places confoun∣deth the Bishop and the Elder.

Io Whitgifte.

The wordes of Chrysostome, and of Oecumenius be euident, as you might haue perceyued, if you woulde haue taken paynes to reade the places. For the wordes of Chrysostome be these: 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: He* 1.40 speaketh not here of Elders, but of Bishops, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: for certaynely the Elders did not ordeyne the Bishop. Howe say you, be not these wordes playne, that he meaneth Bishops, and not other Ministers? And M. Beza in* 1.41 his notes vpon this place sayth thus: Presbyterij. 1. ordinis presbyterorum, quo nomine pro∣babile est coetum omnium illorum significari, qui verbo laborabant in Ep〈1 line〉〈1 line〉esiorum ecclesia: Of the eldership: that is to say, of the order of Elders, by whiche name it is likely, that the com∣panie of them, whiche laboured in the worde in the Churche of Ephesus, are signified. Vt Acto. 20. Wherby it is certayne that he secludeth your vnministring Seniors.

Chap. 2. the third Diuision.
Admonition.

Nowe there is (neyther of these beeing looked vnto) required an Albe, a surplesse, a vesti* 1.42 ment, a pastorall staffe.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 49. Sect. 3▪

In the booke nowe allowed of making Deacons & ministers, and consecrating of Bishops, there is neyther required Albe, Surplesse, vestiment, nor pastoral staffe: reade the booke from the beginning to the ending. And therfore this is a false and vntrue reporte.

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Io. Whitgifte.

This is confessed by silence, and therfore here the Admonition conteyneth a ma∣nifest vntruth, and wanteth a proctor.

Chap. 2. the. 4. Diuision.
The Admonition.

Beside that ridiculous, and (as they vse it to their new creatures) blasphemous saying, receiue the holy Ghost.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 49. Sect. 4. & vlt.

To vse these wordes (receiue the holy Ghost) in ordering of Mi∣nisters, which Christ him selfe vsed in appoynting his Apostles, is no more ridiculous and blasphemous, than it is to vse the wordes, that he vsed in the Supper: But it is blasphemie thus outrageously to speake of the wordes of Christ. The Byshoppe by speakyng these words doth not take vpon hym to giue the holy Ghost, no more than he dothe to remitte synnes, when he pronounceth the remission of synnes: but by speakyng these wordes of Christ, receyue the holy Ghost, vvhose sinnes so euer ye remitte, they are remitted▪ &c. he dothe shewe the principall duetie of a Minister, and assureth hym of the assistance of Gods holy spirite, if he labour in the same according∣lye.

You call them his new creatures, these be but words of s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉urrilitie, to be hissed at, not to be answered.

T. C. Page 44. Sect. vlt.

To say that the Byshop may as well say (receiue the holy ghost) as to say the wordes vsed in the Supper, or to say that the sinnes of those, which do beleeue are forgiuen, is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, as farre as Yorke and London. For there are commaundementes to the Ministers to doe that, which they doe, and heere is none: and there the Minister doth not commaunde that the bread be the bodie of Christ, but he sayth that it is. Neither doth he commaunde that sinnes should be for∣giuen, but pronounceth in the behalfe of God, that they are forgiuen. It is not lawfull also, that he with the congregation should make a prayer for the assistance or encrease of God his giftes vp∣on him, that is ordeined, but to commaund that he should receiue it, is meerely vnlawfull. For these wordes (receiue the holy ghost) are the imperatiue mode, and doe expressely signifie a commaunde∣ment. And so the Bishop may as wel say to the sea when it rageth and 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉elleth, peace, be quiet, as to say receiue the holy Ghost. And if you thinke it so good reason to vse this in the making of mini∣sters, bicause you vse the words of our Sauiour Christ, why may not you as well blow vpon them as he did? For seyng that our sauiour Christ confirmed his word there with a Sacrament, or out∣warde signe, and you thinke you must therefore do it, bicause he did it, you are muche to blame to leaue out the outward signe, or Sacrament of breath, whereby the faithe of him that is ordeined, might be the more assured of such giftes and graces, as are requisite in his function. I heape not vp here the iudgement of writers, you knowe, I thinke, it might easily be done, if I liked to follow that waye.

Io. Whitgifte.

Christ vsed these wordes (this is my bodye) in the celebration of his Supper, but there is no speciall commaundement that the Minister should▪ vse the same, and yet must he vse them, b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉cause Christ vsed them: euen so, when Christ did ordeine his A∣postles Ministers of the Gospell Io. 20. he sayd vnto them▪ receiue the holy G〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ost. &c. which words bicause they containe the principall duetie of a Minister, and do signifie that God doth poure his spirit vpon those whom he calleth to that function, are most

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aptly also vsed of the Bishop (who is Gods instrument in that businesse) in the or∣deyning of Ministers. S. Paule speaking to Timothie. 1. Tim. 4. saythe, Neglecte* 1.43 not the gifte that is in thee, whiche was giuen vnto thee by prophecie, with the laying on of the handes of the eldership. In whiche wordes the Apostle signifieth, that God dothe bestowe his giftes and spirite vpon suche as be called to the ministerie of the worde, whereof imposition of handes is a token, or rather a confirmation: and ther∣fore sayth M. Caluine, that it was not a vayne ceremonie, bicause God dyd fulfill with hys* 1.44 spirite that consecration, which men dyd signifie by imposition of handes. And surely as that is no vayne ceremonie, though it be done by men, so these be no vayne words, though they be spoken by men.

Neither dothe the Bishop speake them as thoughe he had authoritie to giue the holy Ghost, but he speaketh them as the words of Christ vsed in the like action, who (as I sayde before) dothe moste certaynly giue his holy spirite to those whom he cal∣leth to the ministerie. And surely if any patterne eyther in calling or ordeyning of ministers is to be followed, this of Christ is to be followed especially: and it is not vnlike but that the Apostles when they layde on their hands vsed the same words, bi∣cause (as I haue sayde) laying on of handes is a signe, or rather a confirmation of the same. That which you speake of commaunding, is a méere cauill, you knowe in your conscience that there is nothing lesse ment.

To recite the wordes of Christ in the name of Christ, in the selfe same maner that Christ dyd speake them, is as lawful in this action, as it is in the Supper, for the bread is not the ministers body, but the sacramente of Christ his body, and yet he sayth, Take and eate, this is my body: So in reciting Gods commandements we say, Thou shalt haue no other Gods but me: and yet we meane not that we are their Gods, but we speake the words of God in his person, and in the selfe same maner & forme, that he hath lefte them vnto vs. But it is nowe no maruayle thoughe suche as wyc∣kedly forsake their calling, doe also impiously deride and iest at the manner and forme thereof.

Christ when he sayde to the sea, peace, be quiet, shewed a myracle to confirme his diuinitie: but when he sayde, Receyue the holy Ghost. &c. he dyd institute a ministe∣rie, which shoulde be vsed by man: and therefore there is no similitude betwixt these two. Christ when he breathed vpon them, dyd an action proper vnto him selfe, for he thereby signified that he had authoritie to giue vnto them his holy spirite, and that the same spirite dyd not only procéede from the father, but from him selfe also: when he spake these wordes, he made a perpetuall promise, that all suche should receyue his spirite, as from time to time were by him called to the office of the ministerie.

I thinke you woulde surely vse some authoritie of wryters héere, as you doe in other places, if you had any: but I suppose you haue not one that misliketh this forme, as it is vsed in this Churche of Englande. I knowe they doe iustly con∣demne the foolishe imitation of the Papistes, who followe Christ in breathing: But that there is any great misliking of these words, Receyue the holy Ghost (except only when they speake of the papisticall abusing of them) I can not perceyue.

Of Apostles, Euangelistes, and Prophets.

Chap. 3. the. 1. Diuision.
The Admonition.

The ninth. Then euery pastor (x) 1.45 had his flocke.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 50. Sect. 2.

To proue this you alleage the. 20. of the Acts, the. 4. to the Ephe. the first to Titus, the. 5. chapter of the. 1. of Peter: which places de∣clare

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that there were Pastors whiche had flockes: but they proue not that euery Pastor had a flocke: neuerthelesse howe so euer you proue it, true it is that if he be a Pastor, he must haue a certain flock, for therein doth a Pastor differ from the rest of the degrees of mini∣sters in Christes Churche, mentioned in the fourth chapter to the E∣phes. But you muste learne, that there bee not onely Pastors in the Churche, but also Apostles, Prophetes, Euangelistes, Doctors, Ephes. 4. 1. Cor. 12. who all are called ministers, and haue their place in the Churche of Christe, as it shall be proued if you denie it.

T. C. Pag. 45. Sect. 1.

This passeth all the diuinitie that euer I redde, that there are nowe Apostles, and Euange∣listes, and Prophetes. You shall assuredly doe maruels, if you proue that, as you saye you wil, if any denie it: I denye it, proue you it.

Io. Whitgifte.* 1.46

Then haue you not redde muche diuinitie: for if it be true that the Apostle Saincte Paule in the fourth to the Ephesians dothe make a perfecte platforme of a Churche, and a full rehersall of the offices therein conteyned (as you say he dothe) then can I not vnderstande howe you can make those offices rather temporall, than the office of the Pastors and Doctors. And forasmuche as you so greatly contemne authori∣tie, and woulde haue all thinges proued by Scripture, lette mée heare one worde of the same, that dothe but insinuate these offices to be temporall. The place it selfe séemeth to importe a continuance of these functions, vntill the comming of* 1.47 Christe. For he sayeth: He therfore gaue some to be Apostles, and some Prophetes, and some Euangelistes, and some Pastors and Teachers, for the gatheryng together of the Sainctes, for the woorke of the ministerie. &c. vntill wee all meete together in the v∣nitie of faithe and knowledge of the sonne of God vnto a perfecte man, and vnto the measure of the age and fulnesse of Christe. &c. I am perswaded that you can not shew any lyke place, whiche dothe so playnely importe the abrogatyng of them, as thys* 1.48 dothe make for their continuaunce. I haue besyde that place to the Ephesians, the twelfth of the firste to the Corinth. and the. 14. where he speaketh of Prophets, as of perpetuall ministers in the Churche of Christe.

I knowe that there were certayne thynges in the Apostles, whiche were pro∣per vnto themselues, as theyr callyng, whyche was immediatly from God, their commission to goe into the whole worlde, the power of woorkyng miracles, to bée witnesses of the Resurrection and of the Ascention. &c. but to preache the woorde of God in places where néede requireth, (though the same be not peculiarly commit∣ted to them) or to gouerne Churches alreadie planted, I sée no cause why it shoulde not be perpetuall.* 1.49

Lykewise the office of the Euangelist, if it be taken for the writing of the gospell, then it is ceased. But if it be taken for preaching to the people playnely and simply, as (a) 1.50 Bullinger thinketh: or generally, for preaching the gospell: as (b) 1.51 Musculus suppo∣seth, in whiche sense also Paule sayde to Timothie. 2. Timo. 4. doo the worke of an Euangelist: Or for preaching more feruently and zealously than other, as (c) 1.52 Bucer say∣eth: then I see no cause at all why it may not still remaine in the Church.

Moreouer Prophetes, if they be taken for suche as haue the gifte of foreshe∣wyng things to come, then be they not in all tymes of the Churche: but if they be* 1.53 suche as Saincte Paule speaketh of. 1. Corin. 14. such (I saye) as haue an especiall gyfte in interpretyng the Scriptures, whether it bée in expoundyng the myste∣ries thereof to the learned, or in declaryng the true sense thereof to the people: I vnderstande not why it is not as perpetuall as the Pastor or Doctor.

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Thus you sée that I haue bothe Scripture and reason on my syde: and to the ende you maye perceyue that I am not destitute of the consent also of learned* 1.54 men in thys matter, I will sette downe the opinions of one or two. Ambrose vpon these wordes Ad Ephes. 4. Et ipse dedit quosdam quidem Apostolos. &c. sayeth thus: The Apostles are Bishops: Prophets be interpreters of the Scriptures, althoughe in the begin∣ning there were Prophetes, as Agabus, and the foure Virgins Prophetesses, as it is in the Actes of the Apostles. &c. yet nowe interpreters bee called Prophets, Euangelistes bee* 1.55 Deacons, as Philip: for althoughe they bee no Priestes, yet maye they preache the Go∣spell without a chaire, as both Stephanus and Philippe before named. Bucer vppon the* 1.56 same place sayth that there bée Euangelistes nowe, and you your selfe fol. 42. confesse, that Hus, Ierome of Prage, Luther, Zuinglius. &c. were Euangelistes. Peter Martyr in his* 1.57 Commentaries vpon the. 12. to the Romaines sayth, that the Apostle there describeth those functions and giftes, whyche are at all tymes necessarie for the Churche: And in that place the Apostle mentioneth Prophecying. M. Caluine in his Institut.* 1.58 cap. 8. doth confesse, that God hath stirred vp Apostles or Euangelistes since that tyme of the Primitiue Churche, and that hee hathe doone so lykewyse euen nowe in thys tyme.

M. Bullinger vpon the place of the fourth to the Ephe. sayeth, that the woordes* 1.59 bee confounded, and that an Apostle is also called a Prophete: a Doctor, an Euange∣liste, a minister, and a Bishoppe: and a Bishoppe, an Euangeliste, and a Prophete. &c. To bée shorte, it is thus written in the Confession of the Churches in Heluetia,* 1.60 The ministers of the newe Testament bee called by sundrie names: for they are called Apostles, Prophetes, Euangelistes, Byshoppes. &c. And (speakyng of Prophetes) it sayeth: The Prophetes in tyme paste, foreseeyng thynges to come, were called Seers, who were expounders of the Scriptures also, as some bee euen nowe a dayes. Euan∣gelistes were wryters of the historie of the Gospell, and Preachers also of the gladde tydings of Christe his Gospell: As Paule bidde Timothie doe the woorke of an Euan∣geliste. &c. So that to saye, that there is in the Churche Apostles, Prophetes, and E∣uangelistes in suche sense as I haue declared, is no straunge diuinitie, to suche as bée diuines in déede. But let vs heare your reasons.

Chap. 3. the. 2. Diuision.
T. C. Page. 45. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4.

And that you maye haue some thyng to doe more, than peraduenture you thoughte of, when you wrote these woordes, I will shewe my reasons, why I thinke there oughte to be none, nor can be none, vnlesse they haue wonderfull and extraordinarie callings. It must first be vnderstan∣ded that the signification of this worde Apostle, when it is properly taken, extendeth it selfe not only to all the ministers of God, beeing sente of God, but to the Embassador of any Prince or no∣ble man, or that is sente of any publike authoritie, and is vsed of the Scripture by the trope of Synecdoche for the twelue, that our Sauior Christ appointed to go thoroughout all the worlde, to preache the Gospell, vnto the which number was added Saint Paule, and as some thinke Bar∣nabas, whiche are seuered from all other ministers of the Gospell by these notes.

First, that they were immediatly called of God, as S. Paule to the Galathians, proueth him* 1.61 selfe to be an Apostle, bycause he was not appoynted by men.

Then that they sawe Christe, whiche argument Saincte Paule vseth in the. 9. 1. Cor. Am I not an Apostle? haue I not seene Christe?

Thirdly, that these had the field of the whole world to tyll, whereas other are restrained more particularly, as to a certaine plough lande, wherin they should occupie themselues: wherevpon it followeth, that as we conclude against the Pope truly, that he can be no successour of the Apostles, not only bicause he neyther teacheth, nor doth as they did, but bicause the Apostles haue no succes∣sours, neyther any can succeede into the office of an Apostle: so may we lykewyse conclude against those that woulde haue the Apostles now a dayes, that there can be none, bycause there is none, vnto whome all these three notes doe agree: as that he is both sent of God immediately, or that he hath seene Christe, or that he is sent into all the worlde.

Io. Whitgifte.

M. Caluine vpon the sixtéenth to the Romaines sayeth, that this woorde Apostle, in proper and vsuall signification, dothe onely comprehende that firste order whyche

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Chryste in the beginning did appoynt in his twelue disciples, whiche is directly con trarie to your saying.

I graunt that in suche respectes as you now put downe, there bée no Apostles: although Matthias was not immediatly called by God, as it appeareth Actes. 1. and you before haue confessed: neyther can you proue by the Scripture, that Bar∣nabas was so called, but the contrarie rather dothe appeare in the. 11. of the Actes, and yet he was an Apostle. Sainct Paule in the firste to the Corinth. 9. doth not saye that he sawe Christe, to proue that he was an Apostle, but to declare that he was in that respect nothing inferiour to the reste of the Apostles. I haue before declared in what sense I say that ther be Apostles in the church: neyther is it a matter so strange séeing that M. Caluine sayeth as muche in the place before recited: Quanquam non ne∣go, quin Apostolos postea quoque, vel saltem eorum loco Euangelistas interdùm excitarit Deus, vt* 1.62 nostro tempore factum est, Although I doe not denye, but that God hath afterwardes also stirred vp Apostles, or at the least Euangelists in steade of them, as it is doone in oure dayes.

Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision.
T. C. Page. 45. Sect.. 5.

And although some Ecclesiasticall wryters doe call sometymes good ministers successors of the Apostles, yet that is to be vnderstanded bicause they propounde the same doctrine that they did, not bycause they succeeded into the same kind of function, which they could not do. S. Paule doth vse this word sometimes in his proper and natiue signification, for him that is publikely sent from any to other, as when he speaketh of the brethren that were ioyned with Titus, whiche were sent by the Churches with reliefe to the poore Church in Ierusalem and Inry, and where he calleth Epaphroditus an Apostle. But that is with addition and not simply, as in the first place he calleth the brethren the Apostles of the Churches, that is, not the Apostles of all Churches, or sente to all* 1.63 Churches, but the Apostles which certayne Churches sent with the reliefe to other certaine chur∣ches: and Epaphroditus he calleth not an Apostle simply, but the Apostle of the Philippians, that* 1.64 is, which the Philippians sent with reliefe to Paule, being in prison at Rome, as it appeareth in the same epistle.

Io. Whitgifte.

The writers of ye Magdelb. historie cal Epaphroditus an Apostle in the same sense* 1.65 that they cal Paule, and the rest of the Apostles: & M. Caluine thinketh the name of an* 1.66 Apostle to be taken in that place generally, pro quolibet Euangelista: for any preacher of the gospell. Ambrose saith: erat eorum Apostolus à Paulo factus, dum illum ad exhortationem* 1.67 eorum mittebat ad eos: he was made their Apostle of Paule, when as at their request he sente him vnto them. And Theodoret in plaine wordes doth call him an Apostle, bycause he* 1.68 was byshop of the Philippians. If these say true, as no doubt they do, thē is not Epa∣phroditus called an Apostle only in that signification, that you say he was. In that he* 1.69 calleth them Apostles with an addition of the Churches, not of all Churches, he con∣firmeth my saying, for it argueth that there may be Apostles though they haue com∣mission but for one kingdome or prouince only, as Epaphroditus was the Apostle of the churches of the Philippians, bycause he was sent vnto them to preach. Thus doth both Ambrose, Chrysostome, Theodoret, Caluine, and others write.

Chap. 3. the fourth Diuision.
T. C. Pag. 46. Sect. 1.

And as for Andronicus and Iunius whiche are by you recited(*) 1.70 belike to proue that we may haue more Apostles, bycause it is said of S. Paule that they were famous and notable amōgst the* 1.71 Apostles, it cannot be proued by any thing I see there, whether they had any function ecclesiasticall or no. For S. Paule calleth them his kinsfolks, and fellowe prisoners, and dothe not saye that they were hys fellowe labourers: and a man maye be well notable and famouse amongst the Apostles, and well knowne vnto them, whiche is no Apostle. And if the Apostles woulde haue had this order of the Apostles to continue in the Churche, there is no doubt but that they would

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haue chosen one into Iames his roome, when he was slayn, as they did, when they supplyed the place of Iudas, by choosing Matth〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s, and so euer as they had dyed, the other would haue put other in their places. So it appeareth that this function of the Apostles is ceased.

Io. Whitgifte.

The foresayd authors of the storie called (a) 1.72 Magdelburgica, do also recken these two* 1.73 among the Apostles, euen as they do Paule & Barnabas. (b) 1.74 M. Caluin vpon that place to the Romaines sayth, that the name of an Apostle there doth extende to all those whiche teache not one Churche onely, but many. &c. and séemeth to accompte Andronicus and Iunius such.(c) 1.75 M. Beza in the same place writeth thus: Inter Apostolos. &c. i quorum no∣men inter Apostolos viget, vel qui & ipsi sunt insignes Apostoli, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ic enim accipitur interdum 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉oc no∣men in genere pro bis, qui Christi nomine funguntur legatione, That is, whose name is famous among the Apostles, or whiche are themselues notable Apostles: for so is this name some∣tyme generally taken for those, which are sent in embassage in the name of Christe. Bul∣linger doth think yt they wer in the number of the. 72. disciples. Peter Martyr vpon that* 1.76 place, They are called notable amongst the Apostles: not bicause they were of the colledge of the twelue Apostles, but bicause (as it is credible) they had spread the Gospell through* 1.77 manie places, and had planted many Churches. And a little after speaking of your in∣terpretation, he sayeth, This sense doth not displease me, if the wordes themselues bee not contrarie thervnto. So that he séemeth to doubte whether the wordes will beare your interpretation or no. Gualter and Bullinger also suppose it not to be vnlykely〈1 line〉〈1 line〉,* 1.78 that they were the first planters of Christian religion at Rome. And I can reade of none that doubteth whether they had any function Ecclesiasticall or no, as you do.

I brought them in before pagina. 47. to proue that some may be chosen to preach the woorde whiche haue no certaine cure, and you to auoyde a direct answere, haue shifted them of to this place, and now you say, that belyke. I bring them in to proue that we may haue more Apostles, which thing in déede they proue manifestly, but I brought them in to declare that a man may be admitted to preach, though he haue no certaine cure, and to that you haue not answered.

There is nothing expressed in Scriptures, whether the Apostles did choose any into the roome of Iames or no: but I am persuaded they did not, neyther was it ne∣cessarie. For who euer sayd, that there muste continually be twelue Apostles, and neyther more nor lesse?

I tolde you before out of M. Caluine, that this worde Apostle, in his proper and v∣suall signification comprehendeth only the twelue Apostles appoynted by Christe. Wherfore in this signification there are nowe no Apostles, neyther was there anye since that tyme: but it signifieth also generally such as preache the Gospel in sundry places, and although they go not through the whole worlde, as the twelue did, yet are they not bounde to any one place certainly. And according to this signification, there both hath be〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e and are Apostles.

Chap. 3. the. 5. Diuision.
T. C. Page. 46. Sect. 2. 3.

You aske further, that if a man shoulde not preache before he haue a pastorall charge, what they will answere vnto Philip and Epaphroditus, wherby your meaning is belike, that although they beno Pastours, yet they may be Euangeli〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ts, whiche goe aboute the countrey here & there. But this office is ceassed in the Churche, as the Apostles is, sauing that sometymes the Lorde doth rayse vp some extraordinarily, for the building vp of the Churches, whyche are falne down, and pulled vp by the foundations, as I haue shewed somwhat before. And that it is ceased, it may appeare by these reasons.

Fyrst, for bicause all those that the Scripture calleth precisely Euangelistes (which are only Philipan〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Timothie) had their callings confirmed by miracle, and so it is lyke that Titus and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉pollos, and if there were any other, had their vocations after the same maner* 1.79 confirmed, but there is no suche miraculous confirmation nowe, therefore there is no suche vo∣cation.* 1.80

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Io. Whitgifte.

I haue declared both before by Scripture, reason, & other authoritie, that though the name of an Euangelist bée chaunged, yet the office remayneth. The Scripture no where calleth Tunothie an Euangelist, onely. 2. Ti. 4. S. Paule willeth him to doe* 1.81 the woorke of an Euangelist, whiche is, to preache the Gospell. But of this matter I haue at large spoken in an other place.

It passeth to sée howe boldely you doe abuse the Scripture. Where doe you reade that eyther 〈◊〉〈◊〉 or Philippe, were ordeyned or confirmed Euangelistes, by miracle? There can be no such thing imagined: in the. 39. verse Acts. 8. the wordes* 1.82 be these: And as soone as they (that is Philippe and the Eunuche) were come oute of the water, the spirite of the Lorde caught away Philip, that the Eunuche sawe him no more &c. Was this the miracle that confirmed Philip an Euangelist? Lorde God what meane you? This was rather done to confirme the Eunuche: As for Philip it is ma∣nyfest that before this miracle he was an Euangelist: for in the same chapter we reade that before this tyme Philip had preached in Samaria, and conuerted them, béeing be∣fore seduced by Simon the sorcerer: and that he had also baptised them. Moreouer he had conuerted the Eunuch, and baptized him before this miracle was shewed: wher∣fore it could not be a confirming of his Euangelistship.

That in the. 1. Ti. 1. vers. 18. insinuateth, that dyuerse Prophecies had gone be∣fore of Timothie, whereby it was reuealed that he shoulde bée a woorthye Mini∣ster of the Churche, or as Caluine sayeth, which had commended him to the churche: although there be sundry interpretations of that place more lyke to bée true than that. But howe proueth it that hée was made an Euangelist, by miracle? First Ti∣mothie was nowe a Bishop, as hereafter is proued. Secondly, here is no mention made of any calling to an Euangelist ship. Thirdly, a Prophecie is not a miracle. Last of all, though this were true bothe in Philip and Timothie (as it is in neyther) yet dothe it not followe, that whosoeuer is called to be an Euangelist, must also be con∣firmed by miracle, for particular examples make no generall rule: Timothie was ordeyned minister of the Gospell, per impositionem manuum, by the laying on of han∣des,* 1.83 1. Ti. 4. 2. Ti. 1. And therfore his vocation was ordinarie, and néeded no such con∣firmation* 1.84 by miracle.

Chap. 3. the. 6. Diuision.
T. C. Page. 46. Sect. 4.

Nowe agayne, if there shoulde be any Euangelist, who shoulde ordeyne hym? you will saye the Bishop. But I saye that can not be, that the greater shoulde be ordeyned of the lesse. For* 1.85 the Euangelist is a higher degree in the Churche, than is the Bishop or pastor. And if he be so, why hath he not his estimation here in the Churche about the Bishop or Archbishop eyther? for the Archbishop is but a Bishop, or why doth not he ordeyne Bishops as Tunothie and Titus did, which were Euangelistes, being one poynt of theyr office, as Eusebius declareth?* 1.86

Io. Whitgifte.

You doe but trie my pacience in so often offending in the petition of the principle: For neyther can you proue an Euangelist to be an higher degrée in the Church than is a Bishop, neyther is it true that Timothie and Titus were Euangelistes, and not Bishops, and in that poynt haue you all the writers both olde and newe, stories and other, one or two only excepted, flatly against you, besides the euident reasons that may be collected out of the Scripture.

I know not to what purpose you quote the. 7. to the Hebrues, except it be for this* 1.87 texte: The lesse is blessed of the greater: in whiche place blessing is not taken for or∣deyning or consecrating: for Melchisedech did no suche thyng to Abraham. But it is there taken as it is Numer. 6. where the Priestes are commaunded to blesse the* 1.88 people, and therefore serueth not your turne for any thing here spoken.

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I vnderstand not to what ende you quote Eusebius in his third booke, and. 27. Chap∣ter.* 1.89 For there is not in that place one woorde spoken of an Euangelist, or any part of his office.

Chap. 3. the. 7. Diuision.
T. C. Page. 46. Sect. 5.

Agayne, if there be in euery Church a Pastor, as S. Paule cōmaundeth, what should the E∣uangelists do? for either that pastor doth his dutie, and then the Euangelist is superfluous, or if he do it not, then he is no lawfull pastor, and so ought he to be put out, and an other to be put in his steade. And where the pastor doing his dutie can not suffice, there the Scripture hath giuen him an ayde of the Doctour, which for bicause his office consisteth in teaching doctrine, to this end that the Pastor myght not be driuen to spende so much tyme in propounding the doctrine, but myghte haue the more tyme to employ in exhorting and dehorting, and applying of the doctrine to the ty∣mes and places, and persons, it is manyfest that he also is tyed to a certaine Church. For how coulde he be an ayde vnto the pastor to whose helpe he is giuen, vnlesse he were in the same church where the pastor is? And that the Euangelistes office hath bene to taken as a function that en∣dured* 1.90 but for a tyme, it may appeare first by that which Eusebius writeth speaking of Pante∣nus: for sayth he, there were vntill that tyme Euangelistes. &c. which was aboute the yeare of our Lord. 162. Wherby he giueth to vnderstand, that aboute that tyme they ceased, and that in his tyme there was none, when notwithstanding there were Bishops or Pastors, and Elders* 1.91 and Deacons. And Ambrose sayth, that there be no Apostles, but those whiche Christe himselfe did appoynt: wherby it appeareth, that of all the Ecclesiasticall functions that preach the woorde there are but the Pastor and Doctor only lefte vnto vs, and the same also restrayned to particu∣lar charges.

Io. Whitgifte.

But what if there be not in euery Church suche a Pastor, neyther can be, is the Euangelist then necessarie? you must of necessitie confesse that, for the people muste not be depriued of the worde, when by suche meanes they may haue it. Howebeit, though euery Churche had his Pastour, and euerye pastour dyd his duetie, yet might preaching by other doe good, as well for the confirmation of the Doctrine, and the more frequent preaching, as also for that it pleaseth God sometymes to woorke that by one, that he dothe not by an other. But what Scripture haue you to proue that the Doctor is added to the Pastour, as an ayde, or that the Doctor is tyed to a cer∣taine place? you haue no licence to coyne newe Scriptures, and in the olde I am sure you can not fynde it. As for youre bare woorde, it is but a verye bare proofe.

I tolde you before, that Hierome, Augustine, Chrysostome, Musculus, and dyuerse other vppon good reason confounde Pastour, and Doctor, and thynke them to bée but diuerse names of one office. And whereas you saye, that the Doctours office con∣sisteth in teaching doctrine, to this ende, that the Pastour myghte not be dryuen to spende so muche tyme in propoundyng the doctrine. &c. I woulde gladly knowe whence you learne that. Ambrose sayeth, they be suche as see good rule kepte in the Churche, or suche as* 1.92 teache children.

Eusebius woordes speaking of Pantenus be these: There were as yet at that tyme manie Euangelistes, whyche were prest and readie to this, that they myght wyth a god∣lie zeale accordyng to the Apostles example, promote and plante the woorde of God. Whyche proue, that there were then Euangelistes good store, whyche were zea∣lous. &c. But there is no mention made of any ceassing of their office: it rather pro∣ueth a continuance of the same, béeing so long after the Apostles tyme. There is nowe no suche Euangelistes as goe from kyngdome to kyngdome, or thoroughe the* 1.93 worlde, bycause the miraculous gifte of tongues is nowe ceased. Neyther is anye nowe lawfully called to any suche Ecclesiasticall function, but by man, and therfore they must goe no further than his authoritie extendeth that hath called them.

Ambrose sayeth truly, if he should say that there are no Apostles but such as Christ himselfe appointed, if we speake proprely and vsually (as I haue before declared) but that is no hinderance to any thing yt I haue affirmed. And yet surely ye words of Am∣brose sound nothing that way, for Ambrose abasing and disabling himselfe saith thus:

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Non igitur mihi apostolorum gloriam vendico, quis enim boc, nisi quos ipse filius elegit dei? &c. I therefore challenge not to my selfe the glory of the Apostles: for who can do this, but they whome the sonne of God did choose? And what can you hereof conclude? He saith af∣terwards also, that i e doth not chalenge to himselfe the circumspection of Pastors, yet was he then a Byshop, as it is in that place euident. Gladly would you haue some authoritie for your purpose, if you could tell where to find it.

Notes

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