The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

Of ministers admitted, a place being not voyd.

Chap. 1. The first Diuision.

The Admonition.

The seuenth. Then none admitted to the ministerie, but (u) 1.1 a place was voyd afore hand, to which he should be called.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Page. 47. Sect. 1. 2.

TO proue this you cite in the margent the first of the Acts, wher it is declared howe Mathias was chosen in the place of Iudas, to make vp the number of the. xij. Apostles. Surely this is but a slen∣der reason: Mathias was chosen into the place of Iudas, Ergo, no man must be admitted into the ministerie, excepte a place before hande be voyde, to the which he should be called. Euery meane sophister will laugh at the childishnesse of this argument.

Mathias was chosen to be an Apostle, and not to any certaine cure, and therfore this example proueth nothing.

T. C. Page. 42. Sect. 4.

The reason is of greater force than you woulde seeme to make it, for as the. xij. place was to Mathias, so is a certain Church vnto a Pastor or Minister, & as the Apostles ordeined none vnto that place before it was voyd, so ought not the Bishop ordeyn any vntil there be a Churche voyde and destitute of a pastor. And as the Apostles ordeined not any Apostle, further than they had te∣stimonie* 1.2 of the word of God, as it appeareth that S. Peter proceedeth by that rule to the election, so ought no Bishop ordeyn any to any function, which is not in the scripture appointed. But there are by the word of God, at this tyme no ordinarie ministers Ecclesiastical, which be not local, and tyed to one congregation, therfore this sending abrode of ministers whiche haue no places, is vn∣lawfull.

Io. Whitgifte.

As theyr reason is farre from good reason, so are your similitudes farre from pro∣uing the same: & the Logitians say, Soluitur sunilitudo, ostensa dissimilitudine. First, ther is great difference betwixte the office of an Apostle, and the office of a Pastor, as you must néedes confesse. Then is there also difference in the number: for the Apostles whiche were chosen of Christe to be witnesses of his Resurrection, were twelue, and therfore the number certain: but the number of Preachers and Pastors is not limi∣ted, but the mo the better: Thirdly, there was one chosen in the place of Iudas, that the Scripture might be fulfilled as Peter saith Act. 1. but there is no such thing in the election of Pastors & other ministers. Moreouer it was the twelfth place in number that Mathias was chosen vnto, and not any locall place, such as pastors take charge of. Wherfore except you can make a certayn number, and no certain number: a local prescript and definite cure, and a generall charge without prescription of any certain place, all one, or at the least verie like: this argument, Mathias was chosen into the place of Iudas: ergo, no man muste bee admitted into the ministerie, excepte he haue a Cure,

muste of necessitie be a very childishe and fonde argument. And how ofte shall I tell you, that to reason àfacto ad ius, of an example to make a generall rule, is a very vnskil∣full kinde of rasoning, excepte there be some generall rule and commaundement ac∣cording to that example.

But was not Paule added to the number of the Apostles, though there were no* 1.3 place voyde? Were not also Barnabas Act. 14. Epaphroditus Phil. 2. Andronicus and Iunia, Rom. 16. called Apostles? I might therefore as wel reason thus, Paule, Barnabas. &c. were called to be Apostles when there was no place voyde, Ergo some maye be called to the preaching of the Gospell, though they haue no certayne cure. But let vs sée how you will iustifie this assertion, that there are no ordinarie ministers ec∣clesiasticall, which be not locall, and tyed to one congregation. &c. For I vtterly denie it, in that sense that you speake it.

Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 42. Sect. 5.

And that it may the better appeare, that those functions doe onely remayne, whiche are ap∣poynted to one certayne place, and that the Reader maye haue the clearer and playner vnderstan∣ding of all this matter, all the whole ecclesiasticall function maye be well deuided: first into extra∣ordinarie, or those that endured for a time, and into ordinarie, whiche are perpetuall. Of the firste sorte are the Apostles, and Euangelistes, whiche the Lorde vsed for a time, as it were, for chiefe Masons, and principall buylders of his Churche, as well to laye the foundations of Churches where none were〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 as also to aduaunce them to suche forwardnesse and height, vntill there might be gotten, for the finishing of the buylding and house of the Churche, fitte pastors, Elders, and Dea∣cons. And that beeing done, they went from those places into others, which thing may be percey∣ued by the continuall storie of the Actes of the Apostles, and by diuers sentences which are founde in the Epistles of S. Paule. And therfore also when the Churches haue bin by Antichrist euen rased from the foundations, God hath stirred vp Euangelists, euen immediatly by his spirite, with∣out any calling of men, to restore his Churches agayne: of whiche sorte was Master Wickli〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e in our Countrey, M. Hus, and Hierome of Prage in Bohemia, Luther and Zuinglius in Ger∣manie. &c. And after this sort God may at his good pleasure work, when he purposeth to set in his Gospell in any nation, where the whole face of the earth is couered with the darknesse of igno∣rance, and want of the knowledge of God.

Io. Whitgifte.

Althoughe you can not warrant by the Scriptures this distinction of ordinarie and* 1.4 extraordinarie ecclesiasticall functions, yet I thinke the Apostolicall function was ex∣traordinarie, in respect that it had for the time certayne especiall properties, as to beare witnesse of the resurrection of Christ, and of his assention, whiche they dyd sée with their eyes: also to plant & to found Churches: Likewise to go throughout the whole worlde. These I say were temporall and extraordinarie, and so was the Apo∣stleship in this respect, but yet ordinarie in respect of their chiefe function, which was to preache the Gospell, and to gouerne the Churches whiche they had planted. Like∣wise Euangelistes haue an ordinarie function, neyther is there any cause why it should be called a temporall office, but onely in respect of writing the Gospell, for there is none that thinketh the office of preaching to be eyther extraordinarie or temporall.

But I pray you let me aske you one question, why should not the office of Seniors be aswell extraordinarie and temporall, as the office of an Apostle, or an Euangelist? for as you saye: that the Apostleship and Euangelistship remayned, vntil there might be gotten for the finishing of the buylding and house of the Churche fytte Pastors. &c. So say I, that the office of Seniors and Elders might remayne in the Churche, vntill there were chri∣stian Princes and Magistrates, by whome the people of God might be kepte in peace and quietnesse, and the Churches of Christ more perfectly gouerned. And wel assured I am, that there are as good reasons for this, as there are for the other. For as in the place of the Apostles, Euangelistes. &c. are succéeded Bishops, Pastors, Doctors: so I may say, that in the place of Elders and Seniors, are come Christian Princes and Magistrates.

As for this parte of the Apostles function, to visite suche Churches as were be∣fore planted, and to prouide that suche were placed in them, as were vertuous and godly Pastors: I knowe it remayneth still, and is one of the chiefe partes of* 1.5 the Bishops function, as shall hereafter more at large appeare.

I graunte that Master Hus, Hierome of Prage, &c. were stirred vp euen by God, to preache his truthe, and open the doore of his worde agayne, yet were they cal∣led to some function of the Churche before, althoughe that function were for the moste parte, wicked, and the Church almost wholly corrupted with superstition and errors: But why you shoulde rather call them Euangelistes, than Apostles, Pro∣phetes, Pastors, or Doctors, I knowe not: especially séeing some of them had or∣dinarie charges.

Chap. 1. the. 3. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 1.

Of this sorte of extraordinarie functions, are the Prophets also, which besides a singular dex∣teritie, and readinesse of expounding the Scriptures, had also the gifte of telling things to come, whiche, bicause it is not nowe ordinarily, I thinke there is none will denie, but it is an extraordi∣narie calling, for the other two of the Apostles and Euangelistes, it shall appeare more at large hereafter (by occasion giuen by M. Doctor) that they are but for a time.

Io. Whitgifte.

If you meane Prophetes, in the respecte of the gifte of telling thinges to come,* 1.6 suche as Agabus was, then be they temporall, but yet ordinarie for the tyme wher∣in* 1.7 they were: But if you meane Prophets in respecte of their dexteritie and readi∣nesse in expounding the Scriptures, suche as Barnabas was, and Simon, Lucius,* 1.8 &c. and Saule. Likewyse suche as Iudas and Silas. Actes. 15. and suche as the A∣postle* 1.9 S. Paule speaketh of. 1. Corinth. 14. I sée no cause why eyther the calling* 1.10 should be extraordinary, or the ••ffice and gifte temporall, excepte you haue a libertie to make temporall and perpetuall, ordinarie and extraordinarie, what you please. But seeing you woulde haue all thinges proued by Scripture, I pray you proue this that you haue sayde, eyther of the Apos••les, Euangelis••s, or Prophetes by the Scripture, séeing you teache that of them, which seemeth to be contrary vnto the Scripture.

Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 43. Sect 2.

The ordinarie and continuall functions of the Churche are also deuided into two partes, for eyther they are they that gouerne or take charge of the whole Churche, as are those, which are cal∣led Elders, or they which take charge of one parte of the Churche (whiche is the poore of euery Churche) as are those which are called Deacons. Those agayne that be called Presbyteri, which we tearme Elders of the Churche, and haue to doe with the whole Churche, are eyther those, whiche teache and preache the worde of God, and gouerne too, or else whiche gouerne onely, and do not teache or preache. Of the first kinde are Pastors, and Doctors. Or the second are those, which are called by the common name of Elders, or auncientes. Of all this ordinarie function I shall haue occasion to speake, and of euery one shall appeare that (which I haue sayde before) that they are no vncertayne and vndefinite ministeries, but suche as are limitted vnto a certayne Churche and congregation. And first of all, for the Pastor or Bishop, whiche is heere mentioned, whiche name soéuer we consider of them, they doe foorthwith, assoone as they are once eyther spoken, or thought of, imply and inferre a certayne and definite ch••rge, beeing as the Logitians terme them, actuall relatiues. For what shepheard can there be, vnlesse he haue a flocke? and howe can he be a watcheman, vnlesse he haue some citie to looke vnto? Or howe can a man be a master, vnlesse he haue a seruaunt? or a father vnlesse he haue a childe? Nowe if you will saye that they haue a charge, and they haue flocks, and cities to attende and watche vpon, for a whole shire, or prouince, or realme, are their flockes, and their Cities, and their charges.

Io. Whitgifte.

This diuision also is of your owne inuenting: neyther haue you any mention of Seniors, (as you call them) or of Deacons in that fourth Chapter to the Ephesi. whiche you would haue to be so perfecte a rulè of ecclesiasticall functions. As for Pastors and Doctors, you knowe that diuers bothe auncient and late writers, as namely Hierome, Augustine, Chrysostome, Musculus, and Bucer, &c. do confounde them, and the reason that Hieroine vseth can not be well denyed, because the A∣postle sayth not as he dyd before of the other: alios Pastores, alios Doctores, some Pastors,* 1.11 and other some Doctors, but he ioyneth them togither, and sayth: alios Pastores & Doctores, some Pastors and Doctors. M〈1 line〉〈1 line〉reouer I sée not howe you can iustifie your di∣uision of Seniors by the worde of God, as I shall further declare in that place, where* 1.12 you more largely speake of them: In the meane time, I sée no reason why your vnpreaching and vnministring Seniors, shoulde haue any perpetuitie in the Churche, more than Apostles, for the cause that I haue before alleadged: neyther haue you yet proued, that the Deacons office is onely to prouide for the poore: you haue examples to the contrarie, as I haue declared in my Answere. To be shorte, I vnderstande not howe you can make Doctors, gouernours of any seuerall parishes and Churches, except you will make them Pastors.

But bicause you onely speake héere, and proue nothing, I will differre a further answere, vnti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉l I heare more sounde argumentes.

You saye, a shepheard can not be, vnlesse he haue a flocke. &c. all which is true: but he is also a shepheard that hath mo flockes, and he is a shepheard, that hathe a generall care and ouersight of many shepheards, and many flockes. For he that hathe many flockes, and many shepheards, may haue one master shepheard to sée that all the rest doe their duties, and that the shéepe be kepte in good order. And thoughe euery seuerall Citie haue seuerall watchemen whiche watche by course, yet maye there be one that hathe an especiall care ouer all, and is appoynted to see the rest do their duties: So one master maye haue many seruauntes, one father many children. Wherefore if you vse this reason to improue the office of a Bishop, it lacketh mighte: if to proue that a Pastour muste haue a flocke, no man dothe denie it: but if to conclude, that no man maye preache, vnlesse he haue a certayne flocke, there is no sequele at all in it: for first you muste proue that the onely office of a Pastor is nowe remayning in the Churche, and that no man can be minister of the words and Sacraments, except he be a Pastor of some certayne flocke, for that doe I con∣stantly denie.

Chapter. 1. the. 5. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 3.

First of all in your reading ministers that is vntrue, for they goe not to 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eade in all Chur∣ches, but 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉arrie till they be hyred in one. And therfore when the Bishop hath layde his hande of* 1.13 them▪ they are no more Ministers, than before his hande came vpon them, bicause they haue no charges, and therefore the patrone or person that hireth them to reade, and setteth them a worke are their Bishops, and make them ministers, and not the Bishop of the Diocesse.

Io. Whitgifte.

These be but words grounded vpon this false principle, that none oug〈1 line〉〈1 line〉te to be admitted into the ministerie, but suche as haue a certayne cure and charge, which you are neuer able to proue, eyther by Scripture or good reason: but the con∣trarie is manyfest by bothe.

Chapter. 1. the. 6. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 4.

Secondarily, for those that preache to haue a whole Diocesse, or Prouince, or Realme to be their flocke, or Citie to attende vpon, is contrarie to the pollicie or good husbandrie of all those that woulde eyther haue their Citie safe, or their flockes sounde. For who are they, whyche woulde appoynte one for the watche of a thousande townes or cities, when as all they, whiche loue their safetie, woulde rather haue for euery citie many watchemen, than for many cities one? Or what is he, that is so watchefull and circumspecte, whose diligence and watchefulnesse, one citie assaulted with enimies, will not wholly occupie and take vp? Or what is he, whose sighte is so sharpe, that he can see from one ende of the Diocesse, or Prouince, or realme, to the other ende thereof? Or what is he, that will committe the keeping of twentie thousande sheepe to one man, that looketh for any good or encrease of them? Howe shall all these heare his whistle, howe shall all knowe his voyce, when they can not heare it? Howe shall they acknowledge him, when they can not knowe him? howe shall they followe him, when they can not see him goe before? howe shall he heale their diseases, when he can not possibly knowe them? But some man will saye, that these are humaine reasons, and likelyhoodes, whiche may be ouerthrowne with other si∣militudes: These notwithstanding are Analogies drawne from the nature of those things, which the Ministers are likened vnto, and are of the moste parte vsed of the holy Ghost him selfe expressely.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is a great poynte of good husbandrie and pollicie also, to haue, besides the seuerall shepheardes ouer seuerall flockes, and sundry watchemen ouer sundry Ci∣ties, diuers other to féede the shéepe, as occasion serueth, and to admonishe the watchemen and the Cities of their dueties: else why dydde the Apostles after they hadde planted the Churches, and placed Shepheardes and watchemen ouer them, so diligentlye afterwardes vysite them, and so carefullye looke vnto them, as we reade Actes. 14. 15. 18? Was the watche thinke you the worse kepte, or the shéepe the negligentlyer looked vnto? The pollicie that Darius vsed Daniel. 6. when he appoynted a hundreth and twenty gouernours ouer all hys Realme, and ouer them thrée to ouersée them, and take an accompte of their do∣inges, is greatly commended: and why maye not this pollicie be necessarie in the Ecclesiasticall state also? But you héere runne smothely away with the matter, and suppose that there may not be for seuerall Cities, and seuerall flockes, seue∣rall watchemen and shepheardes, bicause there be some that haue a generall care ouer many flockes and Cities. If a thousande Townes or Cities haue a thou∣sande watchemen appoynted vnto them, to haue the particular care ouer them, and also one, two, or moe to haue a generall care bothe ouer the watchemen, and ouer the Cities also, doe you not thinke that all shall be in better order, and in muche more safetie?

But your similitudes fayle maruellously in sundrie poyntes, whiche I muste* 1.14 admonishe you of, bicause you glorie so muche in them, and thinke that you haue reasoned strongly, when you haue vsed the weakest kinde of argument that can be, to proue any thing: for as the Logitians saye, Similitudo rem illustrat, sed non pro∣bat: A similitude maketh a matter playne, but proueth it not. And it is easely ouer∣throwne by shewing the vnlikelyhoode: In this the similitude agréeth, that as euery Citie muste haue a watcheman, and euery flocke a shephearde, so euery Churche or Parishe muste haue a watcheman or a Pastour: and as the watchman and shephearde his office is to watche and to féede, and to haue a necessarie care o∣uer their charges, so muste also the Spirituall watcheman and shephearde haue a care ouer the people committed vnto them. All this is true, and neyther pro∣ueth nor improueth any thing that is in question. I mighte as well saye, that if the Citie be well watched, and the flocke carefully looked vnto, thoughe it be not by the watcheman or shephearde him selfe, but by his meanes and procurement,

there can be no iuste faulte founde with eyther of them. Likewyse, that when the shephearde hathe broughte his shéepe into a pasture where they maye bothe be sure from all daunger, and haue meate sufficient, then his presence is not so necessarie for them, so that he doe sometymes visite them. Also that there is no one watche∣man, that eyther dothe or can watche continually, but muste of necessitie haue his reste, so that some other supplie hys absence: and likewyse, that there is no master shephearde, but that he hathe some vnder him, eyther boye, or man, to supply his absence whylest he is aboute other matters. To be shorte, that one shephearde hathe care ouer sundrie mennes shéepe, sundrie flockes of sundrie Townes and Parishes, &c. Dyuers other suche similitudes of shepheardes and watchemen mighte I also vse, to proue many thinges contrarie to your meaning. I mighte also shewe vnto you the dissimilitude betwixte a temporall shephearde. and a spirituall shephearde: vnreasonable shéepe that can not féede them selues, or by any meanes prouyde for them selues, nor haue any charge so looke to them selues, and reasonable shéepe, suche as God hathe endued with knowledge, to whome hée hathe lefte hys wóorde, whyche conteyneth in it suffyciente to saluation, whome he hathe charged to reade it, and to heare it: who shall al∣so answere for them selues. &c. Finally▪ what difference there is betwixte tem∣porall meate and drinke, whiche is soone digested, and therefore dayly to be re∣newed: and spirituall foode whiche continueth, and whereof he that hath once suffi∣ciently tasted, shall not hunger or thirst. &c. These I saye, and a greate number of other dissimilitudes coulde I bring, to ouerthrowe all that you can buylde vpon these similitudes.

I mighte further saye, that in the Prophetes, and other places of the Scriptures, Kinges and mightie Princes that haue ample and large Dominions, be called* 1.15 bothe shepheardes and watchemen, as namely in Ieremy. 2〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Ezechiell. 34. &c. and* 1.16 therefore all those your reasons mighte aswell be alleadged agaynst them, and of them also mighte you saye, What is he, whose sighte is so sharpe, that he can see from one ende of the Diocesse, Prouince, or Realme, to another? For these names be as com∣mon, and as vsuall to Kinges and Princes, as they be to Ministers of the worde and Bishops. And truely if these similitudes sinke once into the peoples heades, and bée applyed vnto ciuill gouernment, (agaynst whiche they bée as forceable, as agaynst the ecclesiasticall) they will as easily, and farre more easily stirre them vp, to séeke alteration in that also.

Chap. 1. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 43. Sect. 4. 5.

But that there be no controuersie lefte in this poynte, what is (*) 1.17 a flocke? S. Paule de∣fineth it playnely, when he saythe: appoynt Pastors, or Elders, or Bishops (for these wordes are indifferently vsed) throughe, not euery Shire, or Prouince, or Realme, but throughe euery Citie, or Towne. And least that any man shoulde heere take occasion to conclude, that then it is lawfull for one man to bee Bishoppe or Pastor of a whole Citie, suche as London, or Yorke. &c.

S. Luke in the Actes dothe declare the meaning of this place, where he sayth that they ap∣poynted Elders throughout euery congregation, so that if the Citie or Towne be great, and the professours of the Gospell in it, be more than will make conueniently a congregation, then there muste bee, by the rule of God (*) 1.18 more Pastours and Bishops. Wherevpon it appeareth that bothe no Pastour or Bishoppe oughte to bee made without there be a flocke, as it were a voyde place for him, and that a flocke is not a Realme, or Prouince, or Diocesse (as we now call a Dio∣cesse) but so many as may conueniently meete in one assemblie or congregation. And that this is the meaning of Sainct Paule, it appeareth by the practise of the Churches from tyme to tyme, whiche haue bothe decreed agaynst, and founde faulte wyth these wandering and rouyng ministeries.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is manyfest that S. Paule willed Titus to appoynte presbyteros (for that* 1.19 worde he vseth) in euery Citie, for so dothe he also saye. But what can you heereof conclude? What sequele is there in this argument: Sainct Paule willed Timothie to appoynt Ministers in euery Citie, Ergo, there muste be none admitted to the ministerie of the worde, but suche as haue some certayne cure? or therefore one man maye not haue the ouersighte and direction of many cures? In déede if S. Paule had sayde to Ti∣tus, thou shalte appoynte no Ministers of the worde, or Seniors, but to a certayne cure, or admitte none to preache the Gospell, except he haue some one place certenly appoynted vnto him: then your reason had bin something. But now it hath no shew of any argument.

The place Act. 14. tendeth to the same purpose, neyther is there one worde there to proue that suche maye not preache the worde, as haue no certayne charge com∣mitted vnto them: but the contrarie rather: for Paule and Barnabas, thoughe they dyd appoynte in euery Churche Ministers, yet dyd they preache themselues also. And I heare no reason yet, why bothe these maye not be true, that euery Churche shoulde haue a Pastour, and yet that some may be admitted to preache the worde, that haue no seuerall churches. This I am sure was vsuall in the Apostles time, and it is nowe most profitable, neither is there one title in the whole scripture against it. And you your selfe haue bin in that case euer since you were preacher, and remayne so still for any thing that I knowe.

Chap. 1. the. 8. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 44. Sect. 1.

The great Councell of Calcedon decreed that no Eider or Deacon, or any other in the eccle∣siasticall* 1.20 order shoulde be ordeyned 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: that is, losely, and as it were let goe at ran∣don whither he himselfe 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sted, whiche he also interpreteth by and by more playnely, when he ad∣deth,* 1.21 that he shoulde not be ordeyned 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: that is, vnlesse it be specially in a congregation of some citie or towne. And in the Councell of Urban (as Gratian reporteth, distinction. 70.) it was decreed that the ordination, that was made without any title, shoulde be voyde, and what that meaneth, is shewed by and by, when it is sayde, and in what Church any is intitled, there let him always remayne. And this is also(*) 1.22 S. Hierome his* 1.23 complaynt, in that men were ordeyned vnto the ministerie, when they were chosen by no Churche, and so wente rounde about, hauing no certayne place. And therefore this, that none oughte to preache, vnlesse he haue some pastorall charge, oughte not to haue beene so straunge a thing vn∣to you, as you make it, if eyther the Scriptures, or the Councels, or the auncient Fathers, hadde beene so well knowne vnto you, as eyther your name requireth, or you take vpon you, whyche dare so boldely pronounce, that there can be shewed no texte of Scripture for the matter.

Io. Whitgifte.

You are notable in falsifying and coruptly alleaging of the authorities of Fa∣thers and Councels, and a singular grace you haue, bothe in ascribing that vn∣to them, whiche they haue not, and in otherwyse reporting that which they haue: as you doe nowe in this place deale with the Councell of Calcedon: for you say, that Councell decreed that no Elder or Deacon. &c. shoulde bee ordeyned 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: that is losely. &c. And you adde, that he interpreteth this more playnely, when he addeth that he shoulde not be ordeyned 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉: that is, vnlesse it be speciallye in a congregation of some citie or towne. But you haue craftily lefte out that which maketh agaynst you, and playnely openeth the meaning of the Councel, which is this, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. &c.

The whole Canon is this, Nullum absolutè ordinari debere presbyterum aut Diaconum, ńec quemlibet in gradu ecclesiastico, nisi specialiter in ecclesia ciuitatis aut pagi, aut in martyrio, aut monasterio, qui ordinandus est, pronuncietur. Qui verò absolutè ordinantur▪ decreuit Sancta syno∣dus,* 1.24 irritam haberi 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uiusmodi manus impositionem, & nusquàm posse ministrare ad ordinantis ignominiam. Wherby it is plaine, that the meaning of the Councell is to haue none ad∣mitted into any Ecclesiasticall degrée, except he haue some thing to liue vpon, and not that he must of necessitie haue some cure: for then would not the councell haue sayd aut in martyrio, aut monasterio, for these be no pastorall charges: neither yet woulde it haue added aut Diaconum aut quemlibet in gradu ecclesiastico, Deacons or any other in eccle∣siastical degree: bicause euery one admitted in aliquem gradum ecclesiasticum, into any eccle∣siasticall degree, is not admitted to a cure. Wherefore the glosse in Gratian doth well interpret the meaning of this Canon, when it saith that nonc is to be ordeined sine ti∣tulo,* 1.25 without a title, ne dicatur, mendicat in plateis infoelix clerious: least it be saide, an vnhap∣pie clerke beggeth in the streates: and further addeth thus, colligitur etiam bic, ex eo quod dicit, siue possessionis, argumentum, quod si quis habet patrimonium sufficiens ordinari potest sine titulo: an argument may also here be gathered, in that it sayth (or of possession) that if any haue sufficient patrimonie, he may be ordeyned without a title. But these words, siue in martyrio siue in monasterio, do manifestly declare that the Councell would haue none ad∣mitted to any Ecclesiasticall function without some stay of liuing, either of some be∣nefice, Monasterie, Colledge, Chappell, his owne possessions, or such like: as the practise of the Church vnder the Pope is at this day. And yet if any man should say, that out o this Canon there can be nothing gathered, but onely this, in what places those that are called to the ministerie are to be admitted and ordeined, I knowe not howe you could answere it, for the wordes of the Canon admit that sense most properly.

That decrée of Vrban hath the same meaning, and that which followeth, of remay∣ning continually in that Church, in the which he is intituled, doth but signifie that he must be assured of his lyuing, whervnto he is intituled during his life: for the same Canon doth permit one man to haue two Churches, but yet that he ought not to be canonicus prebendarius, but onely of one Church wherof he is intituled. But I can not but mar∣ueile that you will vse the testimonie of this Councell of Pope Vrban, which was hol∣den at the least an. 1090. after Christ, euen in the most corrupte time, when as Anti∣christ had fully possessed the sea of Rome, in the which Councell among other things (a) 1.26 he confirmed the actes of Pope Hildebrand against Henrie the Emperour. This Vr∣ban also was the confirmer of the superstitious orders of the (b) 1.27 Cistercian friers, and (c) 1.28 Carthusian Monkes, he likewise deposed (d) 1.29 Deacons that were maried, from their or∣ders: And (e) 1.30 forbad (by the Councell of the traiterous Archbishop Anselme) that any Clearke should receiue beneficiorum inuestituram, or any Ecclesiasticall dignitie, of any Prince or lay man, but (f) 1.31 onely of the Pope. And that you may yet further vnder∣stand what a worthie patrone you haue gotten for your cause, this Vrban was he that was author (g) 1.32 of the Canonicall houres, commonly called our Ladies Psalter.

Certainly Hierome sayth no suche thing in that Epistle, you are disposed to father that of him that he neuer spake▪ His complaint was that much cost was bestowed vpon Churches in adorning and decking of them, and little regarde to the choise of Ministers, meaning that they had more care to haue gorgious Churches than good Ministers. But what is this to your purpose?

Thus haue you proued neither by Scripture, nor by Councell, nor Doctor (truely alleaged and vnderstanded) that none maye preache, vnlesse he haue some pastorall charge, and I still affirme that you haue not one texte of Scripture soundyng that way, where there are to the contrarie sundry examples, as I haue alleaged.

Chap. 1. the. 9. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 77. Sect. 2.

If you had vsed moe reasons, I would haue answered them, what

certaine cure had Paule, Barnabas, Philip, Epaphroditus, Andronicus, Iunius, & yet they were not of the twelue Apostles? It is a straunge doctrine to teache that a man may not preache out of his owne cure: It is more straunge to say, that it is not lawfull for him to preache, except he haue some pastorall cure, beyng of him selfe able to liue, and not minding to be burdensome to the Churche? If you seeke for any text in the scripture to confirme this doctrine, you can finde none: if you seke for examples to the contrarie, you shall finde plentie.

T. C. Pag. 44. Sect. 2. 3. 4.

But you aske what place Paule and Barnabas had appoynted them. What meane you ther∣by to conclude, that bycause Paule and Barnabas the Apostles had no place appoynted them, ther∣fore a Pastor or Bishop shoulde not? when this is one difference betwene the Apostle and By∣shop, that the one hath no certaine place appoynted, and the other hath. But I thinke I smell out your meaning, which is, that we may make Apostles also at these dayes, and that that function is not yet ceased, for otherwise your reason is nothyng worthe. Likewyse also you aske of Philip, which was an Euangelist. And so you thinke that these running Ministers are lawfull, bycause they are Apostles and Euangelistes, against which I shall haue occasion to speake shortly after in the. 50. Page. But if a manne be able to liue of hym selfe, and mynde not to be burdensome to the Churche, it seemeth vnreasonable vnto you, that he may not goe aboute and preache throughout all Churches.

Dyd you neuer reade any learned disputation, and that of learned writers in our dayes aboute* 1.33 this question: whether (although it be lawfull) it be expedient that a man beyng able and willing to liue of him selfe, ought to take wages of the Churche, for inconueniences which mighte ensue of taking nothing? I doe but aske you the question, bycause you make so greate a wonder at thys, for I will not take vpon me heere the defense of it, bycause I will not multiple questions.

And why I praye you maye not that manne that is so able, and will be content to liue of him selfe, why I saye may not he teache and be the Pastor of some Churche? Doe you thinke that for hys forbearing the wages of the Churche, he may breake the (a) 1.34 lawes & orders that God hath established?

Io. Whitgifte.

It is a good reason to proue that there may be preachers of the worde, which haue no certaine cure, and doth cleane ouerthrowe your former answere to the place Acto. 1. for Paule and Barnabas were not chosen into any vacant place as Matthias was, and therfore that reason is no reason. I doe not say a Bishop or Pastor should not haue a place appointed vnto them (for I know Bishops and Pastors haue their cures limi∣ted) but this I saye, that some may be preachers and Ministers of the worde, which haue no certaine cure. Neyther is this true that all suche as be admitted to the prea∣ching of the word, be either Bishops or Pastors.

Against Apostles and Euangelistes we shall vnderstande what you haue to saye, when we come to that place.

You aske me whether I euer read any learned disputations. &c. I mighte aske you the same question, for you vtter no great reading here, only you alleage Peter Martyr vp∣on. 1. Cor. 9. where he speaketh little of this matter. For the question is not whether a man hauing a Pastorall cure, and sufficient of his owne to lyue, may cease to take th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 ordinarie stipend of his Church or no, which is that, that Peter Martyr handleth in that place, and wherof he maketh this resolution, that he should doe that therein, that maye most profitte the Church, and further the Gospell, and yet to be most expedient to take the accustomed stipend, although S. Ambrose Lib. 1. off. cap. 36. and diuerse other be of the con∣trarie iudgement. But this is our controuersie, whether a man hauing sufficient to lyue of by him selfe, may not be admitted to the preaching of the Gospell, excepte he haue some Pastorall cure. S. Paule in that Chapter gloryeth that he tooke nothing of the Corinthians, & Peter Martyr in the same place sayth that Paule would take nothing* 1.35 that he might the more freely reprehend.

You aske me also why that man, that is so able, and will be content, may not teach, and be the Pastor of a Church. &c. I answere, that he may and if he will. But I aske you agayne,

what if he be perswaded that he shall doe more good, by going to suche places, where there is greater want of preaching? What lawe or order is there established by God to the contrarie? where is that law or that order? Set it truely downe, and I yelde vnto it: else can I not but dissent from you, séeyng I sée manifest examples in the Scripture to the contrarie: and euē your owne example, also in your owne person, which ought to haue moued you to a publike confession, if you haue all this while vsurped an vn∣lawfull vocation: as certeinly you haue done, if this your assertion be true.

Notes

• (u) 1.1

  Act. 1. 25.
• * 1.2

  Act. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉▪
• * 1.3

  Some admit∣ted to the mi∣nisterie, a place beeing not voyde.
• * 1.4

  In what res∣pect the Apo∣stolical functi∣on was extra∣ordinary.
• * 1.5

  What part of the Apostles function re∣mayneth.
• * 1.6

  Act. 11.
• * 1.7

  Prophetes in some respecte ordinary.
• * 1.8

  Act. 13.
• * 1.9

  Act. 15.
• * 1.10

  1. Cor. 14.
• * 1.11

  Eph. 4.
• * 1.12

  Tract. 17.
• * 1.13

  Petitio prin∣cipij.
• * 1.14

  Similitudes are but weak arguments.
• * 1.15

  Ierem. 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.16

  Ezech. 34.
• (*) 1.17

  No man dou∣teth what a flocke is, and yet you haue inuen∣ted a straunge definition.
• (*) 1.18

  You haue no worde of God for this, and the practise of the primitiue Chur∣che doth cōfute it, as it is proued Tract. 8.
• * 1.19

  Tit. 1.
• * 1.20

  Cap. 6. act. 1〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.21

  The Councell of Calcedon may∣med.
• (*) 1.22

  You stil stum ble vpon Hie∣rome in steade of Musculus.
• * 1.23

  Ad Nepoti▪
• * 1.24

  Con. Cbalced▪ cap. 6. act. 15▪
• * 1.25

  Dist. 70. 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• (a) 1.26

  Volater▪ & Bale.
• (b) 1.27

  Platina: in vita Vrb. 2.
• (c) 1.28

  Volateran: & Cent. II. ca. 10.
• (d) 1.29

  Distinct. 32 eos qui.
• (e) 1.30

  Matth. p〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 risi. in vita VVilli. 2.
• (f) 1.31

  Cent. 4.
• (g) 1.32

  P〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lid. de inuent. lib. 6. cap. 2.
• * 1.33

  P. Marty〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 vpon the 1. Cor. 9. thinketh it more expe∣dient for one to take vvages of the Church although he be able to liue of him selfe.
• (a) 1.34

  What lawes & orders, where are they establi shed.
• * 1.35

  P. Martyr in 1. Cor. 9.