The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

T. C. Page. 41. Sect. 3.

And that this election continued in the Churche, vntill within a CCC. yeares, at what tyme there was more than Egyptiacall, and palpable darknesse ouer the face of the whole yearth, it may appeare in a treatise of Flaccus Illiricus, whiche he calleth an addition vnto his booke that he en∣tituleth the catalogue of the witnesses of truth, of whome I confesse my selfe to haue bin (a) 1.1 muche holpen in this matter of the choise of the Church touching the ministers: especially in the Empe∣rours edicts whiche are before cited. For lacking opportunities diuers ways, I was contented somewhat to vse the collection to my commoditie, for the more speedy furtherance, and better pro∣ceeding in other matters, which I will leaue of, bycause they may be there red of those that be lear∣ned, whome I wil also referre to the sixt & seuenth bookes, of Eusebius, where (b) 1.2 both the formes of the elections in those times are described, and where besides that the customes of the peoples choyse is set foorth, there are examples of the election of the people and Cleargie, which were con∣firmed by the (c) 1.3 Christian magistrate, namely in the Byshop of Constantinople. And these may suffice for the other that haue not that commoditie of bookes, nor habilitie, nor skill to reade them, being in a straunge tongue, to know, that besides the institution of God in his worde, this manner of electing did continue so long, as there was any sight of the knowledge of God in the Churche of God.

Io. Whitgifte.

Illiricus his treatise that you speake of, doth nothing preiudice the cause that I haue in hand, touching the authorities there alleadged: for the question is not whether it hath bin so or no, but whether it be conuenient and profitable for the Church to haue it so now. The reasons that Illiricus vseth, beside his authorities, are of no great force to proue either necessitie or conueniencie, of such elections in this Church, as the state is now.

You do well to confesse the help that you had by Illiricus, for it could not haue bin* 1.4 vnespyed, séeing you haue almost verbatìm drawen all the authorities, and reasons that you vse in this cause out of him. And truly I maruell with what face you can so opprobriously obiect vnto me, other mens collections, and lacke of reading the ancient writers, when as it is euident that your whole booke consisteth of other mens notes, and col∣lections: and that you your selfe haue scarce read any one of the Authours that you haue alledged, 18. authorities at the least you haue borrowed of Illiricus, in this cause, besides certayne other reasons.

You referre the reader to the. 6. &. 7. booke of Eusebius, where you say both the formes of elections in those tunes are described, and the customes of the peoples choise set foorth, and diuers examples of the elections of the people and Cleargie. &c. But the reader shoulde haue bene something beholding to you, if you had named the Chapters as well as you haue done the bookes: Howebeit you do very politikely, to referre youre readers to the whole bookes, which you are sure the most of them cannot, and of those that can, many will* 1.5 not peruse: but you haue not dealt faithfully, for it is not to be founde in any parte of these two bookes, where the customes of the peoples choyse is set foorthe, or any example of the people and Cleargies election confirmed by the Christian Magistrate. Nor yet any example of any Byshop of Constantinople. The contrary rather may be collected in sundrye places. In the sixte Booke Eusebius declareth that in the absence of Narcissus (by∣cause it was not knowne where he was) The gouernoures of the Churches

adioyning, ordeyne another Byshop.

And after Narcissus retourne, bycause he was aged, the story saith: dictum Alexandrum alterius paroeciae &c. That the ordinance of God called the said Alexander, being Byshop of another parish, to vndertake that charge with Narcissus, according to a vision which was in the night reuealed vnto him: And in y^e next chapter he sheweth how that those of Hieru∣salem receyued the said Byshop courteously, and would not suffer him to retourne to the place where he was Byshop before, they being admonished by a vision in the night, which signifyed vnto them, that they should go out of the citie gates and receiue their Bishop appoynted vnto them by God: which thing they also did by the consent vicinorum Episcoporum, of the Byshops adioyning. What for me or manner of electing can you gather of this place? except you will admitte visions, and call them from one By∣shopricke to another, to helpe some, that is growen in age. Neyther is here any men∣tion made of the electiō of the people: for this that he saith Hierosolomitani went out. &c. it may rather be vnderstanded of the ministers and deacons of Hierusalem, than of the people.

In the. 7. booke cap. 30. it appeareth that the ministers and Pastors had then autho∣rite to choose Byshops. Only in the. 6. booke ther is one example that may séeme some∣thing to make for your purpose vntill it be well considered. It is of one Fabianus who was chosen Byshop of Rome (as it is there reported) in this manner: cum fratres omnes* 1.6 ad ordinandum futurum Episcopum in ecclesia congregati essent. &c. The reporte goeth (when as all the brethren were assembled togyther in the Church, to choose him which should be By∣shop, and many of them determined of diuers worthy and notable men, Fabianus hymselfe being present with the rest, and no man minding to choose him, that a doue falling from a∣boue (like as the holy ghost discended vpon our sauioure in likenesse of a doue) did lighte vpon his head, and so the whole people being with one spirite much moued, did togyther with great ioy and with one consent proclayme him woorthy to be Byshop, and immediatly tooke him, and placed him in the Byshops seate. Héere we may learne that Fabianus was miraculously chosen to his Bishopricke, and that the people moued with this miracle did burst out into commendation of him, and thought him worthy to be Bishop: dothe it therefore follow that they elected him? for it may be doubted whether those brethren that came togyther to ordeyne the Byshop, were of the Cleargy, or of the people.

It is not denied but at this time the people did sometimes, and in some places gyue their consents in the electing of their Byshop: yet doth not this example proue it, bée∣ing (as it may appeare) extraordinarie: neither is there in these two bookes any forme of such elections described, nor any customes of the peoples choice set foorth: much lesse any exam∣ples of the elections of the people and cleargie which were confirmed by the Christian Magistrate, as you affirme. And surely I maruell what you meane to speake of any suche confir∣mation by the Christian magistrate, séeing it is manifest, that as yet, there was no Christian Magistrate mentioned by Eusebius, except only one Philip Emperoure of Rome, of whome he speaketh very little: and maketh no mention of any elections made in his time: so farre off is he, from expressing examples of any confirmation of such electiōs, by any christiā magistrate. Namely (you say) in the Byshop of Cōstātinople,* 1.7 & yet ther is no such example in either of those bookes, no not so muche as one word of any Bishop of Cōstantinople. And y^t it may appeare how far you ar ouerséene in this place, you shal vnderstād that the last Emperour of whom Eusebius maketh any mē∣tion in these bookes, is Dioclesian, who came to the Empire Anno. 288. but Constanti∣nople was builded Anno. 335. So that by your assertion the Byshop of Constantinople was confirmed aboue. 40. yeares before Constantinople was.

Notes

• (a) 1.1

  Not only much, but al∣most altogither.
• (b) 1.2

  An vntruth: for there 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉no such thing to be found in these bookes of▪ use∣bius.
• (c) 1.3

  This is vn∣true, for Eusebi▪ us maketh not mention of con∣firmation of E∣lections by any Christian magi∣strate, nor of a∣ny Byshop of Constantinople▪
• * 1.4

  The reply of T. C. consi∣steth of other mens collecti∣ons.
• * 1.5

  T. C. sendeth his reader to Eusebius for that which he shall not find in him. Euse. lib. 6. cap. 10.
• * 1.6

  Lib. 6. cap. 29.
• * 1.7

  A grosse o∣ueright of T. C.