The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

Chapter. 7. the. 4. Diuision.

T. C. Pag. 41. Sect. 2.

Nowe will I shewe you the cleane contrarie of that you saye, not that I gladly trauayle this wayes, for if you hadde not constrayned me, you shoulde not haue hearde one voyce this waye. And woulde to God, that you woulde be contente, especially when you meete wyth those that wyll bee tryed by the Scriptures, to seeke no farther strengthe than they giue you. But I am lothe you shoulde oppresse the truthe, and make all men afrayde of it, by making them beleeue, that it is so desolate and forsaken of hir friendes, as you pretende. You confesse S. Cyprian is agaynst you heerein, and he was a learned Father, and a Martyr also, whiche did not onely vse this fourme of election, but also taughte it to be necessarie, and commaunded, and there∣fore me thinketh you shoulde not haue sayde all the learned Fathers without exception: you see

also (*) 1.1 S. Ierome is of another iudgement. S. Augustine also when he speaketh how he appoyn∣ted Eradius to succeede him, shewed, how it was the approued right and custome, that the whole Church should either choose or consent of their Byshop. And Ambrose saith that that is truly and* 1.2 certainly a diuine electiō to the office of a Byshop, which is made of y^t whole Church. Gregorius Nazianzene in the oration which he had at the death of his father, hath diuers things which proue that the election of the minister perteyned to the Church, and (a) 1.3 confuteth those thinges whiche should seeme to hinder it. These were learned fathers, and yet thought not, that the election of the Pastor or Byshop, perteyned to one man alone, but that the Church had also hir interest, therefore you see all the learned fathers are not of that mind, you say they are.

Io. Whitgifte.

To Cyprian I haue answered before: the people gaue their consente in his time:* 1.4 but yet was he bolde sometime to elect clearks without them, as it appeareth lib. 2. epist. 5. which he writeth vnto the Cleargie and people, signifying vnto them that it was not necessarie to haue their cōsent in choosing one Aurelius a Clearke: his words be these: In ordinandis clericis (fratres charissimi) solemus vos ante consulere, & mores ac merita* 1.5 singulorum communi consilio ponderare. Sed expectanda non sunt testimonia humana, cum praece∣dunt diuina suffragia &c. In the election of Clearks (beloued brethren) we were wont to take your aduise before, and to weigh with common aduise euery mans manners and de∣serts: But the testimonies of men are not to be loked for, when diuine suffrages haue gone before. In these words also it appeareth, what interest the people then had in electiōs,* 1.6 euen to beare witnesse and to testify of the good life and cōuersation of such, as should be admitted into the Cleargie.

Ierome himselfe (whatsoeuer your counterfeyte Ierome dothe affirme) agréeth with me.

Did not Illiricus tell you where Augustine speaketh these words, neither in what tome, nor in what booke, nor in what epistle? Surely Augustines works are farre larger, than Musculus common places. But the treatise you meane of, is in his seconde tome among his epistles, in number 110. I would wish the learned reader to peruse it, then shall he soone perceiue, how little it maketh for your purpose, and how aptly* 1.7 it serueth mine. First he doth not shew that it was the approued right and custome, that the whole Church should eyther choose, or consent of their Byshop: if he do, lay downe his words: if you cannot, then hath Illiricus his collection deceiued you. Secondly, although it may there appeare that the people vsed to giue their consents, yet Augustine both by his owne act, and by the act of Seuerus byshop of Milleum; declareth that not to be so ne∣cessary, or such a right, but that it may be, vpon iust considerations, altered. Last of all, the words of Augustine be playne, which I will only set downe and leaue them to the consideration of the reader. Augustine shewing his reasons why he did appoint Eradius to succéede him, saith thus: scio post obitus episcoporum. &c. I know that Churches* 1.8 vse after the deathes of Bishops, to be much troubled through ambitious or cōtentious per∣sons: and it is my duetie (so muche as lyeth in me) to prouide for this citie, least that thing (whereof I haue often times had experience to my greefe) should happen. Then he she∣weth* 1.9 what a stirre there was alittle before in the Church of Milleum about their By∣shop, at what time he was sent for vnto them, to appease the controuersie, and decla∣ring how in the ende, they willingly imbraced him, whome Seuerus their Byshop,* 1.10 whilest he was aliue, appoynted vnto them, he saith, minus tamen aliquid factum erat, vn∣de nonnulli. &c. Yet was there somewhat lesse done, whereby diuers were offended, bycause my brother Seuerus thought it sufficiente to appoint his successor in the presence of the Cleargie, and spake not thereof vnto the people: by occasion whereof some greefe was cō∣ceiued. But what needes more words? it pleased God, the greefe was expelled, ioy came in place, and he was admitted Byshop, whome the predecessor had appointed. And it follo∣weth immediatly, Ergo ne aliqui de me querantur, voluntatem meam, quam credo dei esse, in omnium vestrum notitiam profero, presbyterum Eradium mibi successorem volo. &c. Therefore least anye shoulde complayne of me, I doe heere signifye vnto you all my will (whyche I thynke to bee the wyll of God) I will haue Eradius the myni∣ster to bee my successoure. &c. Lastlye he sheweth howe he hymselfe was

appointed Byshop, his predecessor being yet aliue.

Here it is to be noted, first, what stirre began to be in Augustines time about such* 1.11 elections made by the people, which was the cause why he and others appointed vnto themselues successors whilest they yet liued. Secondly, that Seuerus appointed to him∣selfe a successor, and thought it not necessary therein to require the consent of the peo∣ple, which he would not haue neglected if it had bin either necessary or vsuall: Last of all, that Augustine pronounceth Eradius to be his successor in the presence of the peo∣ple, that they might know his minde, but yet without asking their voyces, although they did willingly of themselues consent: for that which afterward he requireth them to subscribe vnto, was the petition that he made vnto them, no more to trouble hym with their ciuil matters, but that they would resort vnto Eradius his successor for such causes. When the reader hathe well considered these circumstances, which he shall better learne in the place itselfe, then let hym iudge how muche it serueth for your turne.

It may appeare by that Epistle of Ambrose, what contention there was in Vercel∣lensi* 1.12 ecclesia (to the which he wrote) about the election of their Byshop, for they had bene long destitute of one, as it there appeareth. Wherefore he exhorteth them to agrée▪ ment, by the example of their predecessors, who so well agréed in choosing of Eusebius, wherevpon he saith, meritò vir tantus (meaning Eusebius) euasit, quem omnis elegit ecclesia:* 1.13 meritò creditum, quòd diuino esset electus iudicio, quem onmes postulauissent. He worthily proued a notable man, whome the whole Church elected: he was rightly thought to be chosen by gods appointment, whome euery one desired. And who doubteth but that he is called of God, whome the whole Church without suite, without sinister affection, without in∣tent to mainteine factions and schismes, doth desire? this proues, that in Ambrose his time, in that Church the people desired their Byshop: which is not to be denied: but it also sheweth that in the same time, there were maruellous contentions about such e∣lections: which is to be considered.

Nazianzene in that oration, hath not one argument to proue that the election of the mi∣nister* 1.14 doth perteyne to the Church, neyther doth he confute those things which should séeme to hinder it: for there is none alleadged: only he declareth what a maruellous stirre and sedition there was, at two sundry times, in the Church of Caesaria, about the electi∣on of the Byshop, what violence was vsed about the same, how the people were deui∣ded among themselues first, and after against their ministers. Likewise how they suddenly misliked their owne choise, and would haue disanulled it, if they had not bin restreyned of their willes by Nazianzene, his father. How the Emperoure also, and the ruler of the citie, taking part with the factious company, were by him pacifyed. Surely this maketh very little to the commendation of popular elections: Nay in the second contention that he there reciteth, declaring who were the especiall authours of it, he saith, Ecclesiae enim a malo erant immunes pariter & opulentiores & potētiores, sed omnis* 1.15 impetus ac seditio inter plebem erat, ac precipuè vilissimam: For the churches (meaning the Clear∣gie) were cleare from that mischiefe, so were the richer sort also, and they which were of greater authoritie, but all the violence and sedition was among the common people, and a∣mong them especially, which were of the basest sort. And a little after, telling how his fa∣ther pacifyed that sedition, he saith, that his father writ vnto them, admonished them, p〈1 line〉〈1 line〉pulum, sacerdotes, necnon alios & quotquot qui ad gradum pertinebant, obtestabatur, eligebat, * calculum ferebat. &c. He humbly intreated the people, the priests, and others which pertey∣ned* 1.16 to that order, he elected, chose. &c. What is here spoken that maketh not rather a∣gainst you, than with you, no man denieth but that the people at this time had inter∣est in the election of the minister in diuers Churches, but that doth not proue that they ought to haue so nowe, or that the Byshop hath no interest in the same: nay in∣conueniences of popular elections did then manifestly appeare.

There is not as yet one authoritie brought in to proue that the ordering of ministers* 1.17 doth at no hand apperteine to the byshop, whiche the Admonition affirmeth, and I haue improued: but you haue not replyed vnto it, kéeping your olde accustomed manner still, not to reason ad idem: for whereas you shoulde conclude thus:

the ordering of ministers doth at no hand perteyne to a Byshop, you conclude thus: The election* 1.18 of a Pastor or Byshop perteyneth not to one man alone. And yet you haue not proued that, only you bring in examples of popular elections: and so haue I broughte in both ex∣amples, and authorities for the sole election of the Byshop: for they be both true. But you ought to proue these two propositions, if you will iustify the Admonition: firste, that popular elections ought to be perpetuall: and secondly: that the ordeyning of ministers dothe at no hand perteyne to the Byshop. But you subtilly passe these ouer, and cast a mist be∣fore your readers eyes, in heaping vp, out of Illiricus néedelesse proofes.

Notes

• (*) 1.1

  We haue seen it, finally to your credite.
• * 1.2

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Epistle.
• (a) 1.3

  This is an vntruth, for he maketh no such confutation there.
• * 1.4

  Cyprian choo seth withoute the consent of the people.
• * 1.5

  Cypri. lib. 2. epist. 5.
• * 1.6

  What interest the people had in Cyprians time.
• * 1.7

  The testimo∣nie of Augu∣stine cited by T. C. serueth not his pur∣pose▪
• * 1.8

  Aug. 2. to. 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.9

  Contention in popular 〈◊〉〈◊〉 lections.
• * 1.10

  Byshopsap∣poynt their successors.
• * 1.11

  Notes out of the restunome of Augustine.
• * 1.12

  Contention about popular elections.
• * 1.13

  Ambro. epi. 82
• * 1.14

  Nazianzene performeth not that for the which he is auouched. Contention in popular e∣lections.
• * 1.15

  The common people especial authours of tumults in e∣lections.
• * 1.16

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• * 1.17

  T. C. reaso∣neth not ad idem, and de∣fendeth not the Admoni∣tion.
• * 1.18

  T. C. letteth slip y^e which he shold proue and yet pro∣ueth not that which he would. The proposi∣tions that should haue bin defended