The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

Chapter. 6. the. 1. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 44. Sect. 2.

Fyrst, bicause in the Apostles tyme, the Churche was vnder the crosse, and therefore very fewe in comparison was there, that em∣braced the Gospell, and commonly they kept togither, or at the least met oftentimes, so that one of them was throughly knowne to ano∣ther, and they them selues could best iudge who among them was the fittest to teache and instructe, hauing alwayes diuers fit for that function. Nowe the Churche is in prosperitie, and therefore the number that professeth, great, and dispersed into diuers places, and in moste parishes not one fitte for the ministerie among them, or knowne vnto them: so that they should call they knowe not whome

T. C. Pag. 33. Sect. 4.

You say it was in the Apostles times vnder the crosse, and therfore fewe, and so mighte easily knowe one an other, who were fit for the ministerie. But you forget your selfe maruellously. For in the Apostles tymes, the Churche (I meane visible and sensible, for else howe coulde it be per∣secuted) was (1) 1.1 sowen not onely throughout all Asia (whiche is the greatest parte of the world) but throughe a great parte of Affrica, and no small portion of Europe, and now it is shut in a smal corner of Europe, beeing altogither banished out of Asia & Affrica: And therfore there are not the (2) 1.2 tithe nowe, of thosethat professed the Gospell then, and what a conclusion is this, the Church were fewe in number, because they were vnder the crosse.

For to let passe both other scriptures, and stories ecclesiasticall, haue you forgotten that which is sayde in the first of Exodus, that the more the children of Israell were pressed and persecuted, the more they multiplied? Then you saye they kepte togither, and met often, and so knowing one another, were best able to iudge one of another. But heerein you speake as one that hath small ex∣perience of persecuted Churches, for in the time of persecution, the Christians that were in one great citie, were fayne to gather them selues out of all the corners, and from all the endes of the ci∣tie, to one place, beeing not able to deuide themselues into many parishes, both for other considera∣tions, and because they were not able to maynteine many ministers, and Elders and Deacons, so that we reade that the Churche which was at Antioche, wrote vnto the Churche at Ierusalem, and that of Ierusalem vnto them of Antioche, and S. Paule to the Churche at Rome, at Ephe∣sus, and at Philippos. &c. Which speeches do declare, that by al likelyhood, in one great citie, they had but (3) 1.3 one congregation, and therefore that muste needes be scattered heere and there, and so could not haue the commoditie either of often meeting, or of knowing one an other, so wel, as where suche a citie is deuided into many Churches. Those that knowe the estate of Fraunce in the tyme of persecution, do well vnderstande, that euery Churche almost was gathered of townes, whereof some were sixe miles, some seauen, some more, from the place of meeting, and keeping their congre∣gations. And therfore could not meete so often, nor knowe one an other so well, as we by the grace of God may do, which meete oftener, and in lesse number than they do.

Io. Whitgifte.

I remember my selfe very well, and I also remember that no learned writer olde* 1.4 or newe denyeth this to be true that I haue sayde: you onely saye that in the Apostles time the visible Church of Christ was sowne not onely throughout all Asia which is the greatest part of the world but a great part of Affrica and no smal portion of Europe, you proue it not, ei∣ther by Scripture, storie, or anye good writer. The Gospell I graunte was prea∣ched in all these partes of the world, yet was it not generally receyued in any one part of the world, no not in any citie, not at Ierusalem, where all the Apostles were, not in any the least towne. There were Christians at Ierusalem, at Antioche, at Ephesus, at Rome. &c. But not the tenth part in any of these, or other places, in comparison to the Iewes, and the Gentils that were there, and not Christians. In the Apostles time the visible Church of Christ at Rome was but an handful in cōparison, to the times that followed, when the whole citie was christened and professed Christ, and had Christi∣an Magistrats. I speake not of the dispersing of the Gospell into diuers places, which I know was in the Apostles time, for that commaundement had they of Christ, that they should goe into the whole world. &c. but I speake of the multitude of Christians* 1.5 gathered togither in one place. In the Apostles time (as I sayd before) no one coun∣try or kingdome, no one citie, no one towne, did wholy professe Christ, or for the most part: now whole kingdomes, whole countries, whole nations, professe him.

When Matthias was chosen, the whole Church, was gathered together in one place. And so was it when the Deacons were chosen. Which thing now is vnpossi∣ble, bycause of the multitude: so that thoughe the election mighte be by the whole Church in the Apostles time, when it was together in one place, yet can it not be so now, séeing it is vnpossible for any one kingdome to conteine it. It might wel be that the people in euery citie might méete in one place without confusion or tumult, in the Apostles time, when as scarce the. xx. part of the citie were Christians: but it cannot be so now, when whole cities professe Christ. Wherfore I speake of the multitude of* 1.6 Christians gathered togither in one place, not of the multitude dispersed throughout the whole worlde, though it is not to be imagined that the number of the Christians then dispersed through the whole world, is comparable to the number of Christians which at this day be in Europe.

Now few Christians was there at Ierusalem not long before it was destroyed, beyng aboue. 40. yeares after Christ? Doth not Eusebius Lib. 3. cap. 5. testifie that they all were receiued into a little towne called Pella? and yet the Apostles had spent muche time and labour in preaching there: but the number of such as did not professe Christ was infinite in that citie at that time, if we beléeue histories, and especially Iosephus de bello Iuda. Lib. 7. cap. 17. wherfore your opinion of the multitude of Christians in the A∣postles time, in comparison to those that be now, is but a very dreame.

It is a very good reason to say, that bycause the Churche was then vn∣der* 1.7 the Crosse, therefore fewe in comparison embraced the Gospell (for sodde I say) bycause notwithstanding the number of true professors doe increase rather than diminishe in the time of persecution, yet is it not so with hypocrites, and dissemblers, who would séeme to professe the Gospell, and whom also we must count professors, bycause we sée not their hartes. This is manifest by this example. In the time of King Edward when the Gospell was in prosperitie, how many was there in London that séemed to be earnest and zealous professors of the same: but when the time of persecution came vnder Quéens Marie, what became of that number? howe fewe was there then in comparison? doe you not thinke that if God should send a tri∣all there would be founde in that citie many false brethren? Moreouer in the time of prosperitie true Christians may without daunger shew themselues, and remaine in their cities, though the number be neuer so great: but in the time of persecution they are dispersed into sundry places.

We may learne in the. 8. of the Actes, that the Churche wholy remayned at Ie∣rusalem,

vntill that persecution wherin Paule was a doer, and that then they were dispersed: shall we not then say that at Ierusalem the number of Christians by rea∣son of persecution, were few in comparison? True it is that this dispersing was the cause why the Church of Christ was more enlarged, yet in the meane time was the number of Christians at Ierusalem meruelously diminished. Thus then you maye vnderstande if you please, that this is a good reason to say, the Church was then in persecution, and therefore very few incomparison, that embraced the Gospell, both in the respect of the visible Church generally, and also in respect of the same Churche particularly in euery ceuntrey or citie. And yet it is true that Sanguis Martyrum est semen Ecclesiae, The bloud of Martyrs is the seede of the Churche, but that séede must haue time to grow in: and I speake of the externall professors of the Gospell.

That which you write to ouerthrow my words touching the kéeping together and often méeting of such Churches as be persecuted, confirmeth my meaning, for I saye they kept together in the time of persecution, and you affirme the same, wherevpon I also conclude, that therfore one of them must of necessitie be well knowne to another. And althoughe our assemblies in time of prosperitie be peraduenture as frequent as* 1.8 theirs is, or rather more frequent, yet haue we not such occasion to conferre one with another, or to consider one another, or to knowe one another as they haue, for they then admitte none into their societie at their méetings, but such as are knowen to be brethren, and of whose Religion and zeale they haue good tryall. And I thinke that those which haue béen exercised eyther in Fraunce, or elsewhere, in any suche time of persecutiō, know this to be true, that they know none so throughly, or are acquain∣ted with none so intirely, as with such who haue béen with them in the time of perse∣cution. You would fayne if you coulde, confute a knowne truth, and a manifest thing: for who would denie, but that such as kepe together in the time of persecution, muste of necessitie be knowne among themselues, and beste iudge who is fittest a∣mong them, for any function?

Notes

• (1) 1.1

  It is not so much to haue the Gos∣pell sowen in many places, as to haue it gene∣rally receyued in a fewe.
• (2) 1.2

  There be many mo Christians in profession nowe thā were at that time. For though the Gospell was then dispersed in many places, yet was it professed but of fewe per∣sons
• (3) 1.3

  This proueth that there were but fewe Chri∣stians in those cities, in respecte of the rest, that were not Chri∣stians.
• * 1.4

  The multi∣tude of Chri∣stians is nowe greater.
• * 1.5

  Mar. 16
• * 1.6

  Comparison made in re∣spect of the multitude in one place, no〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 dispersed.
• * 1.7

  Persecution doth both di∣minishe & in∣crease y^e num∣ber of profes∣sors.
• * 1.8

  Conference in the time of per secution, is a cause of better knowing one another.