The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

¶ Of the authoritie of the Churche in things indifferent. Tract. 2. (Book 2)

Some thinges may be tollerated in the Churche touching order, ceremonies, discipline, and kinde of gouernmente, not expressed in the word of God.

Chap. 1. the first Diuision.

Admonition.

SEing that nothing in thys mortall lyfe is more diligently to bee soughte for, and carefully to bee, looked vnto (a 1.1) than the restitution of true religion and reformation of Gods Churche: it shall bee your partes (dearely beloued) in this present Parliamente assembled, as muche as in you lyeth to promote the same, and to employe your whole laboure and studie, not onely in abandoning all Popishe remnauntes bothe in ceremonies and regimente, but also in bringing in and placing in Gods Churche those thinges onely, whiche the Lorde him selfe (b 1.2) in hys worde commandeth. Bicause it is not mought to take paynes in taking away euill, (c 1.3) but also to be occupied in placing good in the steade thereof. Nowe bicause many men see not all thinges, and the (d 1.4) worlde in thys respecte is maruellously blinded, it hathe beene thoughte good to profer to your godly consyderations a true platforme of a Churche reformed, to the ende that it beeing layde before your eyes, to beholde the greate vnlykenesse betweene it and thys our Englishe Churche: you maye learne, eyther with perfecte (e 1.5) hatred to deteste the one, and with singular loue to embrace, and carefull endeuour to plante the other: or else to be with∣out excuse before (f 1.6) the maiestie of our God, who (for the discharge of our conscience, & manife∣station of his truthe) hathe by vs reuealed vnto you at this presente, the sinceritie and simpli∣citie of his Gospel. Not that you should either (g 1.7) wilfully withstand, or vngraciously tread (h 1.8) the same vnder yourfeete, for God doth not disclose his wil to any such ende, but that you should yet nowe at the length with all your mayne and mighte, endeuour that Christe (whose (i 1.9) easie yoke and light burthen we haue of long tyme cast of from vs) might rule and reigne in hys Churche by the scepter of his worde onely.

¶ Answere to the Admonition. Pag. 20. Sect. 1. &. 2.

I Will not answere wordes, but matter, nor bare affir∣mations or negations, but reasons: and therefore in as fewe words as I can, I will comprehende many lines.

But before I enter into their reasons, I thinke it not amisse to examine that assertion which is the chiefe and* 1.10 principall grounde (so farre as I can gather) of their booke, that is, that those things only are to be placed in the church, which the Lord himselfe in his worde commaundeth. As though they shoulde saye, nothing is to be tollerated in the Churche of Christ, touching either doctrine, order, ceremonies, discipline, or gouernment, except it be ex∣pressed in the word of God. And therfore the most of their argumēts in this booke be taken ab authoritate negatiuè, whiche by the rules of Logike proue nothing at all.

T. C. Pag. 13. Sect. 2.

YOu giue occasion of suspicion, that your ende will be scarse good, whiche haue made so euill a beginning. For wheras you had gathered out of the Admonition, that nothing shuld be placed in the Churche, but that God hath in his worde commaunded, as though the words were not playne mough, you will giue them some light by your exposition. And what is that? you answere that it is as muche as though they would say, nothing is to be tollerated in the Church of Christ, touching either doctrine, order, ceremonies, discipline, or gouernment, excepte it be expressed in the word of God. Is this to interprete? is it all one to say, (a) 1.11 nothing muste be placed in the Church, and nothing muste bee tollerated in the Churche? he hathe but small iudgemente, that can not tell, that certayne thinges maye be tollerated, and borne with for a tyme. Which if they were to be set in and placed, could not be done without the great faulte of them that should place

them. Agayne, are these of like waighte, excepte it be commaunded in the worde of God, and ex∣cepte it be expressed in the worde of God? Many thinges are bothe commaunded and forbidden, of whiche there is no expresse mention in the worde, whiche are as (b) 1.12 necessarily to bee followed or auoyded, as those whereof expresse mention is made. Therefore vnlesse your weightes be truer, if I coulde let it, you shoulde waighe none of my wordes. Heerevpon you conclude, that their argumentes taken ab authoritate negatiue, proue nothing. When the question is of the autho∣ritie of a man, in deede it neither holdeth (c) 1.13 affirmatiuely nor negatiuely. For as it is no good argument to saye, it is not true bicause Aristotle or Plato sayde it not: so is it not to saye, it is true bicause they sayde so. The reason whereof is, bicause the infirmitie of man can neither at∣tayne to the perfection of any thing, whereby he mighte speake all things that are to be spoken of it, neither yet bee free from errour in those thinges, whiche hee speaketh or giueth oute, and therefore this argument neither affirmatiuely, nor negatiuely compelleth the heare〈1 line〉〈1 line〉: but onely in∣duceth him to some lyking or mislyking of that, for whiche it is broughte, and is rather for an O∣ratour to persuade the simpler sorte, than for a disputer to inforce him that is learned. But for so muche as the Lorde God, determining to set before our eyes a perfecte forme of his Churche, is bothe able to doe it, and hathe done it, a man maye reason bothe wayes necessarily. The Lorde hathe commaunded it shoulde be in his Churche: therefore it muste. And of the other side, he hath not commaunded: therefore it muste not be. And it is not harde to shewe, that the Prophetes haue so reasoned negatiuely. As when in the person of the Lorde the Prophet saythe, whereof I haue not spoken, and whiche neuer entred into my heart: and as where he condemneth them,* 1.14 *bicause they haue not asked counsell at the mouth of the Lorde.

Io. Whitgifte.

This my interpretation of their wordes is grounded vpon the whole discourse and drifte of their booke, as it may euidently appeare to be true to any that hathe eyes to sée, and eares to heare: and shewe you if you can any one place in their booke, whiche dothe ouerthrowe this my interpretation of their wordes. I knowe it is one thing to saye, that nothing muste be placed in the Churche, and an other thing to saye, that nothing muste be tolerated, but I sée that they make no difference betwéene them neither in their writing, nor yet in their practise. And I thinke also that there is some difference betwixte these two manner of spéeches, excepte it be commaunded in the worde of God, and excepte it be expressed in the worde of God. For I knowe sundrie thinges to be expressed in the worde of God, whiche are not commaunded: as Christ his fasting fortie dayes, and his other myracles, and therefore by that interpreta∣tion I haue giuen vnto them a larger scope than they them selues require, whiche if it be an iniurie, it is to my selfe, and not to them.

But I thinke you were not well aduised, when you sayde, that many things are both* 1.15 commaunded and forbidden, of whiche there is no expresse mention in the word of God, whiche are as necessarilie to be followed or auoyded, as those whereof expresse mention is made. If you meane that many things are commaunded or forbidden in the worde; which are not expres∣sed in the worde, in my opinion you speake contraries: For howe can it be com∣maunded or forbidden in the worde, excepte it be also expressed in the same? If you meane, that many thinges are commaunded or forbidden to bée doone, necessarie vnto sal∣uation, whiche notwithstanding are not expressed in the worde of God, then I sée not howe you differ from that opinion, whiche is the grounde of all Papistrie, that is, that all things necessary vnto saluation are not expressed in the scriptures. How soeuer you meane it, it can not be true: for there is nothing necessarie to eternall life, which* 1.16 is not bothe commaunded and expressed in the Scripture. I counte it expressed, when it is either in manyfest wordes contayned in Scripture, or therof gathered by necessary collection. If I had to doe with a Papist, I coulde proue this to be true by the many∣fest testimonies of the Scripture it selfe, and also by sundrie other, bothe auncient and late wryters, but bicause I thinke it hathe but ouerslipped you, and that vpon better aduise you will reforme it, therfore I will cease to deale further in it, vntill I vnderstande more of your meaning.

My conclusion touching Argumentes negatiue ab authoritate, (as I vnderstande it,* 1.17 and haue expounded it, in the wordes following) is very true, and muste of necessitie be so. You saye, that when the question is of the authoritie of a man, it holdeth neither affirma∣tiuely, nor negatiuely. Wherein you shewe your selfe not to be so skilfull in that, the

ignorance whereof you do so often in your booke obiecte vnto me: for not in Aristotle* 1.18 onely, lib. 3. Top. and lib. 2. Rhet. ad Theod. but in euery halfe penie Logike, (as you terme them) the place ab authoritate is expressed, and the argumentes taken oute of the same, sayde to holde affirmatiuely, and not otherwyse: the rule whereof is thys, Vnicui{que} in sua arte perito credendum est. It is a good argument to saye, that it is true bi∣cause* 1.19 Aristotle or Plato sayde it, if it be of any thing pertayning to that Arte, where∣in Aristotle or Plato were cunning and expert.

Whether all things pertayning to the outwarde forme of the Churche be parti∣cularly expressed, or commaunded in the Scripture, or no, is the question that we haue nowe in controuersie: that God coulde doo it, and therefore hathe done it, is no good reason, no more than it is for the reall presence in the Sacrament.

Affirmatiuely the argument is alwayes good of the authoritie of the Scripture: as God hathe there commaunded it to be done, therefore it muste be done. Or the Scripture affirmeth it to be so, Ergo, it is so. But negatiuely it holdeth not, excepte in matters of saluation and damnation, whiche is not my opinion onely, but the opinion of the best interpreters. Zuinglius in Elencho contra Catabaptist. reproueth them* 1.20 for reasoning on this sorte, his wordes be these: You shall finde no way to escape, for fondly you reason à factis & exemplis negatiuely: yea à non factis & non exemplis: for what other reason vse you than this: we reade not that the Apostles baptized infants, Ergo they are not to be baptized.

The examples that you vse in the. 7. of Ierem. verse. 31. 32. and. 30. of Esay. ver. 2.* 1.21 to proue that in externall and indifferent matters, we may reason negatiuely of the authoritie of the Scriptures, are farre fetched, and nothing to your purpose. For that whiche the Prophet Ieremie speaketh of, is a matter of great importance, euen moste horrible and cruell sacrifices, wherein they burnte their sonnes, and daugh∣ters.* 1.22 Whiche they were not only not commaunded to doo, but expressely forbidden, as it appeareth in the. 18. of Leuiti. verse. 21. and the. 20. of Leuiti. verse. 3. and the. 18. of Deutero. verse. 10. Nowe to reason thus, God hathe commaunded that you shall not giue your children to be offered to Moloche, and he hathe not giuen you any commaundement to the contrarie, therefore you oughte not to haue offered them: is affirmatiue, not negatiue: althoughe in this case, béeing a matter of substance, and of saluation or damnation (for to kill and murther is of that nature) a negatiue argument is very strong. The Prophet Esay reproueth the Iewes for vsing their* 1.23 owne aduise, séeking helpe of the Egyptians, in the time of their aduersitie, and not of the Lorde. Whiche they dyd bothe contrarie to their owne promise, and also contrarie to the commaundement of God, Deutero. 17. verse. 16. But what is this to proue that we may reason negatiuely of the authoritie of the Scriptures, in mat∣ters of rites and ceremonies, and other indifferent things? You accuse me for not alleadging of Scriptures, better it were to alleadge none, than thus to alleage them to no purpose, or rather to abuse them.

Chapter. 1. the. 2. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 21. Sect. 1. 2. 3.

It is most true, that nothing ought to be tollerated in the Chur∣che, as necessarie vnto saluation, or as an article of faythe, excepte* 1.24 it be expresly contayned in the worde of God, or may manyfestly thereof be gathered: and therefore we vtterly condemne and reiecte Transubstantiation, the Sacrifice of the Masse, the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome, worshipping of Images. &c.

And in this case an argumente taken ab authoritate Scripturae negatiuè, is most strong: As for example. It is not to be founde in Scripture, that the Bishop of Rome oughte to be the head of the Churche, and

therfore it is not necessarie to saluation, to beleeue that he ought to be the head of the Church. &c.

It is also true, that nothing in ceremonies, order, discipline, or go∣uernment in the Church is to be suffred, beyng against the worde of God: And therefore we reiecte all ceremonies, wherein there is any opinion to saluation, worshipping of God, or merite: As creeping to the crosse, holy bread, holywater, holycandle. &c.

T. C. Pag. 14. Lin. 3.

But you say, that in matters of faith and necessarie to saluation it holdeth, which things you oppose after, and set against matters of ceremonies, orders, discipline, & gouernment,(*) 1.25 as thoughe matters of discipline and kinde of gouernment were not matters necessarie to saluation, and of faith.(a) 1.26 The case which you put, whither the Bishop of Rome be head of the Church, is a mat∣ter that concerneth the gouernment, and the kinde of gouernment of the Churche, and the same is a matter that toucheth faith, and that standeth vpon our saluation. Excommunication, and other censures of the Church, which are forerunners vnto excommunication, are matters of discipline, and the same are also of faith, and of saluation. The sacramentes of the Lordes Supper, and of baptisme are ceremonies, and are matters of faith, and necessarie to saluation. And therefore you which distinguishe betwene these, and say, that the former, that is matters of faith and necessary to saluation may not be tolerated in the Churche, vnlesse they be expressely contained in the worde of God or manifestly gathered: But that this later which are, ceremonies, order, discipline, gouern∣ment in the Churche, may not be receyued against the worde of God, and consequently receyued if there be no worde against thē, although there be none for them: you I say distinguishing or deuiding after this sorte, doe proue your selfe to be as euill a deuider, as you shewed your selfe before an ex∣pounder, for this is to breake in pieces, and not to deuide.

Io. Whitgifte.

That matters of ceremonies, discipline, and kinde of gouernment be matters necessarie vnto saluation is a doctrine strange, and vnheard of to me, wherof I will by and by speake more at large, after I haue in a word or two answered your obiections of the Byshop of Rome, and of the sacraments of Baptisme, and the Lordes Supper: for you saye, The case which I put whither the Bishop of Rome be head of the Church, is a matter that concerneth the gouernment, and the kinde of gouernment of the Churche, and the same is a matter that toucheth faith, and that standeth vpon saluation. Wherevpon bylike you woulde conclude, that mat∣ters of gouernment, and kinde of gouernment, are matters necessarie to saluation. Surely I put no such case: but I put such an example, to proue that we maye reason ab authoritate scripturae negatiuè, for this is a good argument, we finde it not in Scripture that the Bishop of Rome ought to be the head of the Churche: Ergo, it is not necessarie to sal∣uation to beléeue, that the Bishop of Rome is the head of the Church: the which thing notwithstanding the Papistes doe affirme: for they say thus, Subesse Romano pontifici omni animae est de necessitate salutis: to be subiecte to the Byshop of Rome is of necessitie of saluation to all men. Now sir, my reason is framed thus against them, whatsoeuer is necessarie to saluation is contained in the Scriptures, but that she Pope shoulde be the head of the Churche, is not conteyned in the Scriptures: Therefore it is not ne∣cessarie to saluation. But you reason cleane contrarie, for you conclude thus, whether the Pope be the head of the Churche is a matter of gouernment and of the kinde of gouernment, but the Papistes say (for that I take to be your meaning) that it is a matter necessary vnto saluation, that the Pope should be the head of the Church: Ergo matters of gouern∣ment and kinde of gouernment are necessarie vnto saluation. Thus you sée howe popishely, with a popishe reason you make a verie popishe conclusion. Certainely no gouern∣ment is to be brought into the Church that is directly against the word of God, as the Popes is, which doth not onely vsurpe the office and authoritie of kings and Princes, but of Christe also, and commaundeth things contrarie to faith, and to the manifest worde of God, wherefore his authoritie is wicked and damnable, but it doth not ther∣fore followe to make this a generall rule, that the gouernment of the Churche or kinde of gouernment is necessarie to saluation. Doe you not knowe of what force an argument is ex solis particularibus?

To proue that Ceremonies are necessarie to saluation you reason thus: The Sa∣craments of the Lordes Supper, and of baptisme, are ceremonies, and are matters of fayth, and necessarie to saluation: Ergo, &c.

Undoubtedly you are as euill a reasoner, as I am either an expounder or deuider, by∣cause the Supper of the Lord, and Baptisme be matters of saluation, therefore are all cere∣monyes matters of saluation? wyll you ex solis particularibus conclude an vniuersall pro∣position? furthermore you knowe that the Supper and Baptisme be not onely Cere∣monyes, but also Sacramentes, instituted and commaunded by Christ, hauyng pro∣myses of saluation, annexed vnto them: and so haue not other ceremonies. And you speake too basely of them, when you cal them ceremonyes, not shewing how or in what sorte they may be so called. It is the nexte waye to bryng the Sacramentes into con∣tempte, and it argueth that you haue not so reuerent an opinion of them, as you ought to haue. Therefore the reader muste vnderstande that there be two kyndes of Cere∣monyes,* 1.27 the one substantiall, the other accidentall: substantiall Ceremonyes I call* 1.28 those which be de substantia Religionis, of the substance of Religion, and commaunded in the worde of God as necessarie, and haue promyses annexed vnto them, as the Supper of the Lorde, and Baptisme. Accidentall I call suche as maye be done or* 1.29 vndone as order requireth, and altered accordyng to tyme, place, person, and other circumstances, wythoute any opinion of Iustification, necessitie, or worship in the same, pertayning onely to externall comelynesse, order, decencie. &c. of the whiche kynde these be that the Apostle Saint Paule mentioneth. 1. Cor. 11. that, men shoulde* 1.30 praye bareheaded, and not women, and suche lyke, as I haue in my answere to the Admonition more particularly declared. Such Ceremonyes I denie to be matters of* 1.31 saluation: and in suche I saye (as you also afterwardes confesse) the Churche hath authoritie to appoynt from tyme to tyme, as shall be thoughte expedient, thoughe the same Ceremonyes be not expressed in the worde of God: so that my diuision hol∣deth, and is stronger than you shall be able to oūerthrowe wyth all the force you haue.

But nowe to your Paradox, you saye that matters of discipline and kynde of gouern∣mente,* 1.32 are matters necessarie to saluation, and of fayth. And you adde that excommunication and other censures of the Church, whych are forerunners vnto excommunication, are matters of discipline, and the same are also of fayth and of saluation. There are two kyndes of go∣uernment in the Churche, the one inuisible, the other visible, the one spirituall, the other externall. The inuisible and spirituall gouernment of the Churche is, when God by hys spirite, gyftes, and Ministerie of hys worde dothe gouerne it, by ruling in the heartes and consciences of men, and directing them in all things necessarie to euerlasting lyfe: thys kynde of gouernmente in déede is necessarie to saluation, and it is in the Churche of the electe onely. The visible and externall gouern∣ment, is that whiche is executed by man, and consisteth of externall discipline, and visible Ceremonyes practised in that Churche, and ouer that Churche, that contayneth in it bothe good and euyll, which is vsually called, the visible Churche of Chryst, and compared by Christe to a fielde wherein bothe good seedes and tares* 1.33 were sowen: and to a nette that gathered of all kynde of fyshes. If you meane this kynde of gouernment, then muste I aske you thys question, whyther your mea∣nyng is, that to haue a gouernmente is necessarye to saluation, Or to haue some one certayne forme, and kynde of gouernmente, not to be altered in respecte of time, persons, or place? Lykewise woulde I knowe of you, what you meane by neces∣sarye vnto saluation. Whyther you meane suche thyngs, wythoute the whiche we can not be saued: or suche thyngs onely as be necessarie or ordinarie helpes vnto saluation: for you knowe that this worde necessarye signifyeth eyther that wythout* 1.34 the which a thing can not be, or that, wythout the which it can not so well and con∣ueniently be.

But for so muche as you afterwarde make mention of excommunication, and o∣ther censures of the Churche, whiche are forerunners vnto excommunication, I take it that you meane the externall gouernment of the Churche, and that kynde of gouernment.

And yet muste I aske you another question, that is, whyther you meane that this gouernmente, and kynde of gouermente is necessarye at all tymes, or then when the Churche is collected together, and in suche place where it maye haue gouernment. For you knowe that the Churche is sometymes by persecution so dispersed, that it appeareth not, as we reade Apocal. 6. Nor hath anye certayne place to remayne in, so that it can not haue anye externall gouernment, or exercise of any discipline. But to be shorte, I confesse that in a Churche collected togither in one place, and* 1.35 at libertie, gouernment is necessarie in the seconde kinde of necessitie, but that any one kynde of gouernment is so necessarie that withoute it the Churche can not be saued, or that it maye not be altered into some other kynde thought to be more expedient, I vtterly denye, and the reasons that moue me so to doe be these.

The firste is, bycause I fynde no one certaine and perfitte kynde of gouern∣mente* 1.36 prescribed or commaunded in the Scriptures to the Churche of Christ, which no doubt shoulde haue bene done, if it had bene a matter necessarie vnto the saluation of the Church.

Secondly bycause the essentiall notes of the Churche be these onely: The true preaching of the worde of God, and the righte administration of the Sacramentes:* 1.37 for (as Maister Caluine sayth in his Booke agaynst the Anabaptistes) Thys honour is meete to be gyuen to the worde of God, and to his Sacramentes, that wheresoeuer we* 1.38 see the worde of God truely preached, and God accordyng to the same truely wor∣shypped, and the Sacramentes wythoute superstition administred, there we maye wyth∣oute all controuersie conclude the Churche of God to be: and a little after, so muche we muste esteeme the worde of God, and hys Sacramentes, that wheresoeuer we fynde them to be, there we maye certaynely knowe the Churche of God to be, al∣thoughe in the common life of men, manye faultes and errours be founde. The same is the opinion of other godly and learned writers, and the iudgement of the refor∣med* 1.39 Churches, as appeareth by their confessions. So that notwythstanding gouern∣ment or some kynde of gouernment maye be a parte of the Churche, touching the outwarde forme and perfection of it, yet is it not suche a parte of the essence and be∣ing: but that it may be the Churche of Christ without this or that kinde of gouern∣ment, and therefore the kynde of gouernmente of the Churche is not necessarie vnto salua∣tion.

The Church of Corinth when Paule did write vnto it, was the Church of Christ, for so doth he call it. 1. Cor. 1. where also he doth giue vnto it, a singular commenda∣tion, and yet it had not at that time when he so commendeth it, that kynde of gouernment and discipline, that you meane of, that is, excommunication as appeareth. 1. Cor. 5.

My thirde reason is this. If excommunicatiō (which is a kind of gouernment) be necessarie to saluation, then any man may separate him selfe from euerie Church wherin is no excommunication, but no man may separate himselfe from euery Church wherin is no excommunicatiō, therfore excommunication (which is a kynde of gouernment) is not necessarie to saluation. The first proposition is euident, for no man is bounde to remaine in that Churche where any thing is wanting, without the which he cannot* 1.40 be saued. As for the seconde proposition (that is to saye) that no man ought to sepa∣rate him selfe from euerie Churche, where excommunication is not, bycause it is learnedly proued by suche as haue written against the Anabaptistes, who both dyd teache and practise the contrarie, it shall be sufficient to referre you vnto them. Mai∣ster Caluine, in hys Booke against the Anabaptistes fayth thus. Herein is the contro∣uersie* 1.41 betwixte the Anabaptistes and vs, that they thinke there is no Church where this gouernment (meaning excommunication) is not appointed, or not vsed and exercised, as it ought to be, nor that a Christian mā there ought to receiue the Supper and vnder that pre∣tence they separate themselues from the Churches where the worde of God is truely prea∣ched. &c. M. Bullinger also in his sixt booke against the Anabaptistes saith. This the A∣nabaptistes* 1.42 do vrge, that there is no true Church acceptable vnto God, where there is no ex∣communication, the whiche they vse. To these therefore we answere, that the Churche of Corinth was a true Church, and so acknowledged of Paule to be. 1. Cor. 1. before there was

any vse of excommunication in it. &c. of the same iudgement is M. Gaulter writing vp∣on* 1.43 the first to the Corinth. 5. VVhilest the Anabaptistes persuade themselues that there can be no discipline wythout excommunication, they trouble the Churches euery where. &c. In the same Chapter he sayth, that there is no one certaine kinde of gouernment or discipline prescribed to y^e Churches, but that the same may be altered as the profit of the Churches shall require. His words among other be these, Let euery Church fol∣low* 1.44 that maner of discipline, which doth most agree, with the people with whō it abideth, and which seemeth to be most fit, for the place and time. And let no man here rashely pre∣scribe vnto others, neither let him binde all Churches to one and the same forme. But of this matter I shall haue occasion to speake more hereafter, where it shall appeare howe farre this learned man M. Gualter is, from allowing that kinde of g〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uernment now in this state of the Churche, the which T. C. woulde make vs to beléeue to be so necessarie. This haue I briefely set downe, not to disalowe discipline or gouernment (for I thinke it very conuenient in the Church of Christ,) nor yet to reiect excommunicatiō, which also hath a necessarie vse in the gouernment of the Church, but to declare that this assertion can not stande with the truth, & with learning, that the kynde of gouern∣ment (meaning as I thinke some one certaine kinde of externall gouernment) is neces∣sarie to saluation.

Chap. 1. the thirde Diuision.

T. C. Page. 14. Sect. 1. &. 2.

And it is no small iniurie which you do vnto the word of God, to pinne it in so narrow roome, as that it should be able to direct vs, but in the principall poyntes of our Religion, or as though the substance of Religion, or some rude and vnfashioned matter of building of the Churche were vtte∣red in them, and those things were lefte out, that should pertaine to the forme and fashion of it: or as if there were in the Scriptures (*) 1.45 only to couer hir nakednesse, & not also chaines and bracelets and rings, and other iewels to adorne hir and set hir out: or that to conclude, there were sufficient to quench hir thirste, and kill hir hunger, but not to minister, vnto hir a more liberall, and (as it were) a móre delicious and daintie dyet. These things you seen〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e to say, when you saye, that 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉atters ne∣cessarie to saluation and of faith are contayned in the Scripture, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉specially when you oppose these things, to ceremonies, order, discipline, and gouernment.

And if you meane by matters of faith and necessarie to saluation, those without whiche a man can not be saued, then the (*) 1.46 doctrine that teacheth there is no free will, or prayer for the dead, is not within your compasse. For I dou〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t not, but diuers of the fathers of the Greeke Church, which were great patrons of free will, are saued, (a) 1.47 holding the foundation of the faith which is Christ. The like might be sayde of a number of other, as necessarie doctrines as that, wherein men being misseled, haue notwithstāding bene saued. Therfore seing that the point of the question l〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eth chiefly in this distinction, it had bene good, that you had spoken (b) 1.48 more certainely and properly of these things.

Io. Whitgifte.

When you say, That it i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉no small in〈1 line〉〈1 line〉urie that I doe vnto the worde of God to pinne it vp in so narrowe roome. &c. You doe but enlarge the volume of your booke with bare words that myght well be spared. I gy〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e that perfection to the worde of God, which the worde it selfe requireth, and all godly learned men consent vnto: and muche more doe I attribute vnto it than you do, in saying that many things are both commaunded and forbyddē of the which there is no expresse mentiō in the word, which are as necessary to be followed* 1.49 or auoyded, as those whereof expresse mention is made, which I take to derogate much from the perfection of the Scriptures, to be méere Papisticall, and quite contrarie to that, that you doe pretende. I also confesse, that in all other things we muste so be directed by the Scriptures, that we doe nothing contrarie to the true sense and meaning of them, no not in externall and in the leaste matters: neyther doe I otherwise write, teache, or speake of the perfec〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ion and authoritie of the Scriptures, than all other lea∣ne〈1 line〉〈1 line〉

men, and the reformed Churches, teache, write, and beléeue: wherefore I passe ouer your words and come to your reasons.

If I meane, say you, by matters of fayth and necessarie to saluation, those without the which a man can not be saued. &c. I can not but muse what you meane willingly to pretende ignorance. Is this thinke you a sounde argument: Diuers of the fathers of the Greeke Churche, which were greate patrons of free will, are saued, holding the foundation of the fayth which is Christ: Ergo The doctrine of free will is not a doctrine of saluation or damnation? you myght as well say, that many in the popishe Church which beléeued that the Pope was supreme head of the Church, that the Masse was a sacrifice for the quicke & the dead, and such like poynts of p••pisticall Religion be saued, Ergo these are no matters of saluatiō or damnatiō. Surely by the same reason al other kinde of sinnes (almost)* 1.50 might be without this compasse. But it may please you to vnderstand, that the mer∣cie of God in his sonne Iesus Christ is infinite, and that he pardoneth at his good will and pleasure, not onely misbeliefe procéeding of ignorance, but wilfull erreurs, and sinnes also, thoughe they be of themselues damnable: he also altereth the minde of man euen in a moment, and therefore as hys mercyes be infinite, so be his iudge∣mentes vnsearchable. Wherefore this your reason is vttered without due conside∣ration. The doctrine of free wyll bycause it is an enimye to the grace of God, must néedes be of it selfe a damnable doctrine, yet doth it not preiudice the mercie of God, nor finally shut oute repentance the gifte of God. And full well doe you knowe, that he can not hold y^e foundation of faith (that is Christ) perfectly, which is a mayntayner of free will. But leauiug the weight of such kind of argumentes to the consideration of the Reader: I come to the purpose. When I saye that an argument holdeth nega∣tiuely from the authoritie of the Scripture in matters of fayth and necessarie to sal∣uation, my meaning is manifest: which is this, that the Scriptures doe containe all things necessarie to be beléeued, and to saluation: and therfore whatsoeuer is taught vnto vs, as an article of fayth and necessarie to saluation, not contained in the scrip∣tures, that same to be false and vntrue, and therefore to be reiected. As for example, the doctrine of fre wyll, of Purgatorie, of praying for the dead, of praying to Saint〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, of the sacrifice of the Masse, &c. are not contayned in the Scriptures, and therefore they be not doctrines to be beléeued, nor necessarie to saluation, but damnable d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ctrynes of themselues, and repugnant to saluation. Surely I thinke in this poynte that you neither vnderstande me nor your selfe: my meaning is plaine, that nothing is neces∣sarie to saluation, which is not plainely contained in the Scriptures.

Chap. 1. the fourth Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 21. Sect. 4.

But, that no ceremonie, order, discipline, or kinde of gouernmente* 1.51 may be in the Churche, except the same be expressed in the worde of God, is a great absurditie, and breedeth many inconueniences.

T. C. Pag. 14. Sect. 3.

But to the ende it may appeare, that this speach of yours: doth some thing take vp and shrinke the armes of the Scripture, which otherwise are so long & large: I say that the word of God con∣taineth the direction of all things pertaining to the Church, yea of whatsoeuer things can fall into any part of mans lyfe. For so Salomon saith in the seconde chapter of the Prouerbes. My sonne if thou receiue my words, and hide my preceptes in the. &c. then thou shalt vnderstande iustice and* 1.52 iudgement, and equitie, and euery good way. S. Paule sayth that whither we eate or drinke, or* 1.53 what soeuer we do, we must doe it to the glory of God. But no man can glorifie God in any thing but by obedience, and there is no obedience, but in respecte of the commaundement and worde of God: therefore it followeth that the word of God directeth a man in all his actions: & that which* 1.54 S. Paule sayd of meates and drinkes, that they are sanctifyed vnto vs by the word of God, the same is to be vnderstanded of all things else whatsoeuer we haue the vse of. But the place of S. Paule in the. 14. to the Rom. is of all other most cleare, where speaking of those things which are called indifferent, in the ende he concludeth, that whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne: but faith is not but in respect of the word of God, therfore whatsoeuer is not done by the word of God, is sin. And

if any will saye that S. Paule meaneth there, a full persuasion and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 that that which he doth is well done, I graunt it. But from whence can that spring but from fayth, and how can we persuade and assure ouresclues that we doe well, but whereas we haue the worde o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 God for our warrant? so that the Apostle by a metonunie, Subjecti pro adiuncto, doth giue to vnderstand from whence the assured persuasion doth spring, wherevpon it falleth out, that for as much as ma〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 our actions euen ciuill and priuate, we ought to follow the direction of the word of God, in matters of the Churche, & which concerne all, there may be nothing done but by the word of Go〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. (a) 1.55 Not that we say, as you charge vs in these wordes, when you say, that we say, that (b) 1.56 no 〈◊〉〈◊〉. &c. may be in the Church, except the same be expressed in the word of God, but that in making orders & ceremonies of the Church, it is not lawful to do what men list, but they are bound to follow the ge∣nerall rules of the scripture, that are giuen to be the squire, wherby those should be squared out.

Io. Whitgifte.

When I say that the scriptures containe all things necessary vnto saluation, I doe* 1.57 not meane that it containeth those things onely, neither doe I denie but that the worde of God, so containeth generally the direction of all things pertayning to the Churche, or that 〈◊〉〈◊〉 fall into any part of mans life, that nothing ought to be done in the Churche, or in the life of man contrarie to the word of God, or not according to the true intent and mea∣ning of the same. Yet doe I denie that the scriptures doe expresse particularly euerie thing that is to be done in the Church (which you your selfe afterward confesse) or that it doth set downe any one certaine forme and kynd of gouernment of the Churche, to be perpetuall for all times, persons, and places, without alteration, as I shall hereaf∣ter more particularly declare.

The place you do alleage out of the. 2. chap. of Salomons Prouerbes, doth not proue your purpose, for Salomon there teacheth the fruites and commoditie of wisedome, and in the person of hir, declareth what vnderstanding he shall haue in righteousnesse, iudgement, equitie, and euery good pathe, that harkeneth vnto wisedome, obeyeth hir commaundements, and giueth his hart to knowledge. But what is this to proue, that the scripture hath expressed euery particular ceremonie, or kind of gouernment in the Church? how followeth this reason, if Princes and such as be in authoritie, receiue the words of wisedome, and hide hir commaundements within them. &c. they shall vnder∣stand* 1.58 righteousnesse, iudgement, and equitie, and euerie good pathe. &c. therfore the scrip∣tures do expresse euerie ceremonie, order, discipline or kinde of gouernment that is to be vsed in the Church? surely except you take héede you wil wander as farre out of the way in aleaging the scriptures, as the authors of the Admonition did in quoting them. I graunt you that Princes muste giue them selues to the vnderstanding of wyse∣dome, and especially of the wisedome of God contained in his word, for so shall they vnderstande righteousnesse, iudgement, and equitie, and euerye good pathe. &c. But what is this to our question? Magistrates must be directed by the worde of God: Er∣go they must make no ciuill or ecclesiasticall lawe, or order, which is not expressed in the word of God: I deny this argument. Your other text is written in the. 1. Cor. 10. VVhither therfore we eate or drinke. &c. Whervpon you frame this argument: whatso∣euer* 1.59 we do, we must do it to the glory of God: but no man can glorisie God in any thing but by o∣bedience, and there is no obedience, but in respect of the commaundement and word of God. Ther∣fore it followeth, that the word of God directeth a man in all his actions: (to omit the vndigested forme of this argument, wherin the conclusion agréeth not with the 〈◊〉〈◊〉) this text is as farre frō the purpose as is the other, for what sequele is this, we must do all to the glory of God, we must obey the cōmandement & wordes of God: Ergo we must do nothing in our whole life, but that which is particularly expressed in the worde of God: Or, therfore the scripture expresseth euery particular ceremonie, or〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er, or kind of gouernment to be vsed in the Church? You may as well by this place conclude, that euery ciuil actiō, euery priuate actiō, euery ciuil kind of gouernment, is expressed in y^• word. For this rule of S. Paule is general, and pertaineth to all Christians, of what state, conditiō or degrée so euer they be. But the true meaning of S. Paule in y^t place is, that we seke y^e glory of God in all things, & do nothing that is against his word and commādement. He glori〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ieth God in meate & drinke which acknowledgeth God to be the giuer of them, and then is thankefull for them, and vseth them moderately, &c. the like is to be said of all other actions.

That whiche Saincte Paule (you say) sayde of meates and drinkes, that they are sanctified vnto vs by the worde of God. &c. It is true, but to what purpose doe you alledge that* 1.60 place? The woorde of God pronounceth all Gods creatures to bée good, and the vse of them to bée lawful (for al thyngs are cleane to those that bee cleane) the same are to* 1.61 be desyred by vs of hym, as the author and giuer of them, and when we haue them wée must be thankefull for them: But what is this to the proofe of any thing that wée haue nowe in controuersie?

But the place of Saincte Paule in the. 14. to the Romains (you saye) is of all other moste cleare. &c. Wherevpon you frame this argumente, Paule speaking of things which are called indifferent, sayeth that whatsoeuer is not of sayth, is synne, but faythe is not but in respecte of the woorde of God: therefore what soeuer is not doone by the woorde of God is synne: still I omitte the euill framing of your argumentes: For I respecte not the defacing of your skill, but the groundes of youre proofes. That sentence of Saincte* 1.62 Paule is also generall, and it is to be extended to all ciuill actions, as well as it is to Ecclesiasticall, and therefore if it proue that all Ciuill and Politike actions and kyndes of gouernmente muste bée particularlye expressed in the Scrptures: it proueth the same in Ecclesiasticall matters also: else not. But the meanyng of the Apostle is, that wée shoulde doe nothyng agaynste oure conscience, nothing but that whyche wée doe beléeue not to displease God, not to bée agaynste hys woord, or cōmaundement. For not to be of Fayth, hath dyuers significations. Fyrst, it signifieth that, that is contrarie to the perswasion of the faythe and iudgement of the conscience: Secondly it signifyeth, not to be taken as an article of Faith. If it be taken in the fyrst signification: Then it is not true that whatsoeuer can not be pro∣ued in the worde of God, is not of fayth, for then to take vp a strawe, to obserue manie Ciuill orders, and to doo a number of particular actions, were agaynste faythe, and so deadely synne: bycause it is not founde in the woorde of God, that wée shoulde doe them. The whyche doctrine muste néedes bryng a greate seruitude and bondage to the conscience, restrayne or rather vtterly ouerthrowe that parte of Christian libertie, whiche consisteth in the frée vse of indifferent thin∣ges, neyther commaunded nor forbidden in the worde of God, and throwe men headlong into desperation. For what man is able to shewe the woorde of God for all thyngs he dothe? If it bée taken in the seconde signification, then it is true, that that is not of Faythe, whyche can not bée proued by the woord. For nothyng is to bée beléeued as an article of faith, which cannot bée proued by the woord of God. In this. 14. to the Romaines, not to bée of Faythe is taken in the fyrste signifi∣cation, that is agaynste the persuasion of the faythe and iudgemente of the con∣science: as thoughe hée shoulde saye, whatsoeuer a man dothe agaynste his con∣science, that is synne. And thys to bée the true meanyng of thys place, the woor∣des* 1.63 goyng before, doe declare, where the Apostle sayeth, Blessed is he that condem∣neth not himselfe in the thyng whiche he alloweth, that is, whose dooyngs are not agaynste hys conscience.

Thys rule (I saye) of Saincte Paule, extendeth as well to Ciuill actions, as it dothe to Ceremonies and orders of the Churche, and therefore what you wil conclude of the one, that muste you also conclude of the other: But I thinke you will not saye, that euery ciuill action muste be expressed or commaunded in the woorde of God: wherefore neyther can you proue by these wordes of S. Paule, that euery ceremonie, order, or kinde of gouernmente in the Churche must be comman∣ded by the woorde of God.

But what néede I laboure so muche in a matter at the lengthe confes∣sed,* 1.64 by youre selfe: for you denye that you saye, That no Ceremonie. &c. maye bee in the Churche, excepte the same bee expressed in the woorde of God, but that in makyng orders and ceremonies of the Church, it is not lawfull to doe what men liste. &c.

Holde you here, and wée shall soone agrée. For neyther dothe that, that I haue hythertoo spoken in thys matter, nor that whyche I intende to speake héereafter, disagrée from thys: the whyche you myghte haue séene, yf it

it had pleased you, page. 22. and. 28. of the Answere to the Admonition, and in my* 1.65 whole discourse of that matter. Wherfore if you were constant, and not contrarie vnto your selfe, or at the least not desirous to haue shewed your selfe contrary to that which I haue in this point written (though you here confesse it to be true) you might haue both eased your selfe and me of this labour.

Chap. 1. the fyfte Diuision.

T. C. Page. 15. lin. 8. & Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

Which rules I will here sette downe, as those which I would haue as wel all orders and ce∣remonies of the Church framed by, as by the which I will be content, that all those orders and ceremonies which are now in question, whether they be good and conuenient or no, should be tri∣ed and examined by. And they are those rules, whiche Sainct Paule gaue in suche cases, as are not particularly mentioned of in the Scripture.* 1.66

• The fyrste, that they offend not any (a) 1.67 especially the Churche of God.
• The seconde is, (that which you cite also out of Paule) that all be done in order and comelynesse.* 1.68
• The thirde, that all be doone to edifying.
• The last, that they be done to the glorie of God.

So that you see that those thyngs which you recken vp of the houre, and time, & day of prayer, &c. albeit they be not specified in the Scripture, yet they are not left to any, to order at their plea∣sure▪ or so that they be not against the worde of God: but euen by and according to the woorde of God, they must be established, and those alone to be taken, which doe agree best & neerest with these rules before recited. And so it is brought to passe (which you thinke a greate absurditie,) that all things in the Churche shoulde be appointed, according to the worde of God: whereby it lykewyse appeareth, that we denye not but (b) 1.69 certayn thyngs are left to the order of the Church, bycause they are of that nature, which are varyed by tymes, places, persons, and other circum∣stances, and so coulde not at once be set downe and established for euer: (c) 1.70 and yet so left to the or∣der of the church, as that it doe nothing agaynst the rules aforesayd. But howe doth this fol∣lowe, that certaine things are left to the order of the Churche, therfore to make a new ministe∣rie by making an Archebishop, to alter the ministerie that is appoynted, by making a Bishoppe or pastor without a Churche or flocke, to make a Deacon, without appoynting him his Church wherof he is deacon, and where he myght exercise his charge of prouiding for the poore, to abro∣gate cleane both name and office of the eldet, with other more: how I say do these followe that bycause the Church hath power to order certayne things, therefore it hath power to do so of these whiche God hath ordeyned and established: of the which there is no tyme, nor place, nor person, nor any other circumstaunce, whiche can cause any alteration or change? whyche thing shall better appeare both in the Discourse of the whole booke: and especially there where you go about to shew certaine reasons, why there shoulde be other gouernment nowe, than was in the tyme of the Apostles.

Io. Whitgifte.

You sette downe foure rules, whiche you woulde haue all orders and ceremonies of* 1.71 the Church framed by. &c. The first is. 1. Cor. 10. that they offende not any, especially the Chur∣che of God, whiche rule I thinke you take out of these wordes of that Chapter, Tales estote, vt nullum praebeatis offendiculum, neque Iudaeis. &c. be suche as you giue no offence nei∣ther to the Iewes, nor to the Grecians, nor to the Churche of God. But truly they make* 1.72 little or nothing for your purpose, neither yet any other thing conteyned in that chap∣ter. For the Apostle there sheweth how one priuate man should behaue himself to∣wardes an other, yea and towardes the Church in things that may be done, or not* 1.73 be done: he prescribeth no generall rule for the Churche to make orders and ap∣poynte Ceremonies by. For what reason were it that the orders of the Churche shoulde so depende vppon one or two mennes lyking or misselyking, that she should be compelled to alter the same, so ofte as any shoulde therwith be offended? Which must of necessitie come to passe, if thys your rule were generall. For what Churche is voide of some contentious persons, & quarellers, whō no order, no reason, no refor∣matiō* 1.74 can please? It is true that Musculus sayth: There bee some whō no churche can please, hauing alwayes some thing to reproue in other men, and nothing in themselues. The Anabaptistes, the Libertines, the Papistes, and other vnquiet myndes, and

contentious persons are offended with such rites and Ceremonies as the reformed Churches vse: neither is there (as I suppose) any reformed Church voyde of some of these kinde of persons: shall they therfore by and by alter the forme and state? S. Paule in this place would haue no iuste offence giuen to any either faithfull or infi∣dell. For Christians ought to be such, at whose examples, doctrine, and lyfe, no man mighte iustely take any offence. True it is, that in all orders and Ceremonies the Church must take héed that there be no iust offence giuen, but she hath not to depend vpon euery priuate mans iudgement.

Whereas you say, especially the Churche of God, you adde to the wordes of the A∣postle,* 1.75 for he sayth not especially: and if you marke his meaning well, you shall ra∣ther finde that he woulde haue especiall care taken, that there be no offence giuen to such as are not yet come to the Churche (whiche some vnderstand by the Iewes and Grecians) least they shoulde still be withdrawne from the Churche, when as there is no suche feare to be had of those that be alreadie membres of the same.* 1.76

Your seconde rule. 1. Cor, 14. is a good and necessarie rule, not onely alledged by me, b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t allowed and imbraced as moste conueniente: but who shall iudge what is moste comely and the best order? shall euery priuate man, or rather such as haue the chiefe care and gouernment of the Churche? This is a rule prescribed by the Apostle to the Church, wherby she must direct hir orders and gouernment, not to euery pri∣uato person to picke a quarell to disquiet the Church.

The third. 1. Cor. 14. that all be doone to edifying. This sentence can not be applyed ge nerally to all things vsed in the Churche, if we truly interprete the meaning of the Apostle, but to the gifte of toungs, to prayers, and to prophecies, whereof he hath made mētion before. Neither can I perceiue that any learned Interpreter doth take it as a general rule for al rites and ceremonies, but only for the exercises of Praying, singing of Psalmes, interpreting, and Prophecying. For of things vsed in the Church, some per∣taine to instruction, and some to order and comelinesse. For the firste he giueth thys rule, Letal things be done to edifying. For both the first and the second he giueth this, Omnia decenter. &c. Let all things be done decently and in order. Althoughe those ceremo∣nies and rites whiche are appointed by the Churche for order and comlinesse, do edifie* 1.77 as Ceremonies, that is, not of themselues, but per accidens, accidentally, as I haue in an other place declared It is sufficient if the Gouernours of the Church, and suche as haue authoritie to ordeyne suche rites, doe thynke them to be profitable in the re∣spect of the tyme, person, and place: neyther muste euerie priuate mannes iudge∣ment in this case be respected, as it is well sette downe by the Articles agréed vp∣on by the Dutche Churche in London, allowed by M. Beza, and by diuers other re∣formed Churches. It is the thirde article: Quid porrò ad aedificationem faciat. &c. More∣ouer* 1.78 what is profytable to edifye, and what is not, is not to be determined by the iudge∣mente of the common people, nor of some on man, nor yet by the issue of mens acti∣ons. &c.

I can net vnderstande out of what parte of the. 14. to the Romaines, youre laste* 1.79 rule is taken, except it be the sixt, seuen, or eyght verses, out of the whiche I would gladly knowe howe you can deriue any rule to frame ceremonies by, rather than all other actions of man whatsoeuer.

These be your rules to square by, and truly we refuse them not, thoughe some of them pertain nothing to your purpose. The Dutch Churche and the other Churches in the. 11. of those articles before mentioned, touching cōmaunding or forbidding indif∣ferent things, determin thus. Qui propter aliam rationem. &c. They whiche for any other cause either cōmand or forbid at their pleasure, the free vse of indifferēt things, then for one* 1.80 of these three, that is neither for edifying, nor for policy, nor ecclesiastical order, & especially those which do rashly iudge other mēs cōsciences in these matters, offēd heynonsly against god, & against their neighbours. Wherby they séeme to allow any order takē in indiffe∣rent things, if it tend either to edifying, or policie, or ecclesiastical order. But to return to your Reply: y^t which you speak of houre, time, & day of prayer. &c. iustifie my saying: for

they be not expressed in the scripture, as you also now affirm, but left to the ordering (not of euery priuate man) but of the Churche, or such as haue the chief care and go∣uernment of the same, to appoint as they shal thinke most conuenient and agréeable to the generall rules giuen in the scripture for that purpose. Neither is this contrarie to any thing that I haue written. But bothe in this and that also whiche immediatly foloweth, you are contrarie to your self, and directly ad oppositum to the Admonition,* 1.81 As by conference may appeare: for these be your owne wordes, Whereby it lykewyse appeareth, that we denye not but certayne things are lefte to the order of the Churche, bycause they are of that nature which are varyed by tymes, places, persons, & other circumstances, and so coulde not at once be set downe and established for euer. And yet so left to the order of the Church, as that it doe nothyng against the rules aforesayde. What dothe this differ from these wordes of myne: It is also true that nothing in Ceremonies, order, discipline, or gouernmente of the Churche is to be suffered against the word of God? and to this end doe all those authorities and places tende, that I haue alledged for this matter. So that eyther you vnderstand not me, or not your selfe, or else your quarell is againste the person, not the cause. The admonition in this poynt you defende not: for it sayeth directly, that those things only are to be placed in* 1.82 Gods Church, whiche the Lorde himselfe in his worde commaundeth. And although perad∣uenture you will shifte this off, by saying that they meane suche things only as bée commaunded eyther generally or specially, yet the whole discourse of their booke declareth, that their meaning is, that nothing ought to be placed in the Church which is not specially commaunded in the worde of God.

But séeing you and I agrée in this, that the Church hath authoritie to ordeyn ce∣remonies and make Orders, whiche are not expressed in the woorde of God, it re∣mayneth to bée considered wherein we differ: whiche is (as I thinke) in this, that I say, the Churche of England hath lawfully vsed her authoritie, in suche ceremonies & orders, as she hath appointed, & nowe retaineth, and you denie the same: so that your controuersie is against the Church of England, and the Ceremonies and orders vsed therein. And therefore you adde and saye, but howe doth this follow, that certaine things are left to the order of the Churche, therfore to make a newe ministerie. &c. Whereby you giue vs to vnderstande, that the things you misse∣like in this Church, are the office and name of an Archbishop, whiche you vntruly call a newe ministerie, (as it is by me declared in my answere to the Admonition) oure mi∣nisterie, the gouernment of our Church, and (as you say) other more, that is, all thinges at your pleasure. But how iustly and truly this is spoken, shall appeare in their pro∣per places. In the meane tyme it is sufficient to tell you, that you are an vnwoorthy member of this Churche, whiche so vniustly report of it, so vnchristianly slaunder it, and so without groundes and sounde proofes condemne it. There is nothyng by it, or in it altered, which God hath ordeined and established, not to be altered.

Chap. 1. the syxt Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 21 Sect. 5. 6. & Pag. 22. Sect. 1. 2.

The Scripture hath not prescribed any place or time, wherein or when the Lordes Supper should be celebrated, neither yet in what manner. The Scripture hath not appoynted what tyme, or where the congregation shall meete for common Prayer, and for the hea∣ring of the word of God, neither yet any discipline for the correcting of such as shall contemne the same.

The Scripture hath not appointed what day in the weeke, should be most meete for the Saboth day, whither Saterday, which is the Iewes Saboth, or the day now obserued, which was appointed by the Churche.

The Scripture hath not determined what forme is to be vs〈1 line〉〈1 line〉d in matrimonie, what words, what prayers, what exhortations.

The Scripture speaketh not one worde of standing, sitting or kne∣ling at the Communion, of meeting in Churches, fieldes, or houses, to heare the word of God: of preaching in pulpets, chaires, or other∣wise: of Baptising in fontes, in basons, or riuers: openly or priuate∣ly, at home, or in the Church, euery day in the weeke, or on the Sa∣baoth day only. And yet no man (as I suppose) is so simple to thinke that the Church hath no authoritie to take order in these matters.

T. C. Pag. 15. Sect. vlt. & Pag. 16. Sect. 1.

But whyle you goe about to seeme to say muche, and rake vp a great number of things, you haue made very euill meslyn, and you haue put, in one, things which are not paires nor matches. Bycause I will not drawe the Reader willingly into more questions than are alreadie put vp, I will not stande to dispute, whether the Lordes day (which we call Sonday) being the day of the Resurrection of our Sauior Christ, and so the day wherin the world was renued: as the Iewes Sabboth was the day wherin the world was finished, and being in all the Churches in the Apo∣stles tymes (as it seemeth) vsed for the day of the rest and seruing of God, ought or may be chan∣ged or no. This one thing I may say, that there was no (a) 1.83 great indgement to make it as arbi∣trarie and chaungeable, as the houre and the place of prayer. But where was pour iudgement, when you wrote that the scripture hath appointed no discipline nor correction for such as shal con∣temne the common prayers, and hearing the word of God? what Church discipline would you haue other than admonitions reprehensions, and if these will not profit excommunication? and are they not appointed of our Sauiour Christ (b) 1.84 Math. 18? There are also ciuill punishments, and pu∣nishments of the body likewise appointed by the worde of God in diuers places (b) 1.85 in the. 22. of Exodus. He that sacrificeth to other gods, & not to the Lord, alone, shal die the death. And in y^e (b) 1.86 19. of Deutronomie. Thou shalte turne out the euill out of the middest of thee, that the rest may 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eare and feare, and not dare do the lyke. The execution of this lawe appeareth in the (b) 1.87 15. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. 2. Chro. by king Aza, who made alawe that al those that did not seeke the Lord, should be killed. And thus you see the ciuill punishment of contemners of the worde and prayers.

There are other for suche as neglect the worde, whiche are according to the quantitie of the faulte: so that whether you meane ciuill or Ecciesiasticall correction, the scripture (c) 1.88 hath defined of them bothe.

Io. Whitgifte.

Out of all these things whiche I saye the Scripture hath not prescribed or ap∣pointed,* 1.89 you choose to carpe at first, The Lordes daye, whiche we call Sonday, and you saye, that you will not dispute whether it ought or may be changed or no: when as you should rather haue proued it, to be appointed by the scriptures (which no doubt you would haue done if you coulde) for that is it whych I denye. Where haue you hearde mée say, that it may or ought to bée altered? if you will confute, confute that whyche I haue sette downe and affirme, not that whiche it pleaseth you to imagine.

In good sooth, this is no true dealyng. No maruell it is that you haue not sette downe my booke, séeing you deale thus corruptely with it. I doe not thinke that* 1.90 that whiche the Churche hath once determined, and by long continuance proued to be necessarie, ought to be altered, without great and especiall consideration. I saye with Sainct Augustin Epist. 118. ad Ianuar. If any thyng be vniuersallye obserued of the whole Churche, not to obserue that, or to call it into question, is meere madnesse, ther∣fore,* 1.91 seing that it hath had suche time of continuaunce, that it was for so good and iuste causes appoynted, and is so generallye obserued of the Churche, I doe not thynke it nowe arbitrarie, nor to be chaunged: muche lesse doe I make it as arbitra∣rie or chaungeable as the place and houre of prayer, whiche may be diuers in diuers chur∣ches, and it is among those rites and orders that be diuersly obserued in diuers pla∣ces, wherof also August. maketh mention in that Epistle. Surely as there had bene little iudgement in me, if I had made it chaungeable, so is there small honestie in you to alter my wordes, and to falsifie my meaning.

Secondly, you myslike that I should say, The scripture not to haue ap∣pointed discipline or correction, for such as shall contemne the cōmon Prayers, and hearing the worde of God. And you aske me where my iudge∣ment was? but I haue more cause to deiliaulide of you, where that learning and skill* 1.92 is which you so muche bragge of, séeing that you so vnskilfully alledge the Scriptu∣res against their true meaning and sense? For where haue you learned that Christ in the. 18. of Mathew dothe appointe any generall rule for publike offences, suche as negligence, and contempt in frequenting publike Prayers, and hearing of the word of God is? The very words of Christ, If thy brother trespasse agay〈1 line〉〈1 line〉st thee &c. do teath* 1.93 that he meaneth not there of open and knowne, but of secrete and particular sinnes. The which thing also the note that is in the margent of the Bible printed at Gene∣ua, myghte haue taught you, if you had bene as well disposed to haue followed the same in this place, as you séeme to haue doone in other places. M. Caluine in his boke agaynst the Anabap. reprouing them for vsing this place to the establishing of their kynde of discipline by excommunication, saythe on this sorte: They are againe de∣ceyued,* 1.94 in that they consider not that the Lorde speaketh in that place of secrete faultes: for as for those, which are manifest and giue vnto the people cause of offence, they are to be corrected by other meanes than by secrete admonitions. You muste therfore séeke for some other place than this, if you will proue that the Scripture hath appointed any discipline and correction for suche as shall contemne the Common Prayers, and hearing of the worde.

To proue that there are also ciuill punishmentes, and punishments of the bodie for contem∣nyng common prayers, and hearing of the worde, appointed by the worde of God, you cite 22. of Exodus. 19. of Deuteronomie &c. But before I come to the answering of these places, I pray you let me aske of you these questions.

First, whether you would haue both Ecclesiasticall & ciuil punishment for the selfe same faulte?

Secondly, whether you woulde haue negligence or contempte in frequen∣ting of common prayers & hearing of the word, punished with death or no? for that punish∣ment is appoynted in those places by you alleaged.

Last of all, whether you thinke the Iudiciall lawes to be perpetual, & to binde the ciuill Magistrate to the obseruing of them, & to restrain him from making any other,* 1.95 as shall be thought to him most conuenient? for except you wil haue two kinds of pu∣nishments for one and the self same offence: except you will punish with death suche as be negligent in cōming to publike prayers: to be shorte, except you will haue the ciuill Magistrate bound of necessitie to practise these iudicial lawes of Moses, (which in déede you affirme afterwardes in your booke) those places make nothing for your purpose. So that you are yet as farre to séeke for Scripture, that appointeth any cer∣taine kinde of discipline for these matters, as euer you were.

But that it may be vnderstode howe vnreasonably you wring & wrest the scri∣ptures, so make them serue your turne, I will in one woorde or two declare y^e mea∣ning of those places, and set open the might of your argumentes.

In the. 22. of Exodus the place by you alleaged, the punishment of death is appoin∣ted* 1.96 for Idolaters, whervpon you would ground this argument. God in the. 22. of Exo∣dus appointeth death as a punishment for Idolaters, Ergo the word of God appointeth a certain kind of punishment for such as be negligent in frequenting publik prayers, and contemne the hearing of the worde. I say there is no sequele in this argument, vnlesse you wil make all those that be negligent in cōming to publike praiers, and cō∣temne to heare the word Idolaters, and this to be a perpetuall lawe.

In the 19. of Deuteronomie ther is nothing tending to any such purpose, only in the* 1.97 latter end of the chapter, there is a punishment appointed for him that beareth false witnesse, whervpon these woords, so thou shalt take euill away from the middest of thee &c. by you here alledged, do folow. Now if you will thus conclude, God in the. 19. of Deutronomie appointeth a punishment for a false witnesse: Ergo, the scripture hath appointed discipline for such as neglect to come to publike praiers. &c. then indéed you

may proue any thing, & it is but in vaine to strine with you. But Lord what gybing & flouting would there be, if I shold bappē to fall into so manifest & open absurdities.

In the. 2. Chro. 15. Aza made the same punishmente for Idolatrie, that is mentio∣ned* 1.98 in the. 22. of Exo. and therefore the same answere serueth that place. Truly I thinke you take your selfe to haue frée libertie to applie the scriptures at your plea∣sure, else would you neuer thus abuse them without all iudgement or reason.

What I thinke of the necessitie or continuance of these lawes, I will declare in a* 1.99 more speciall place: In the meane time, you blow the triumph before the victorie: for as yet, you haue not proued that the scripture doth appoint any certaine kind eyther of ciuill punishment or Church discipline for such as contemne or neglecte the comming to publike prayers, and hearing of the word of God.

You say that there are other punishments for such as neglect the word of God. &c. but you neither tell vs what they be, nor where to find them.

Chapter. 1. the. 7. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 16. Sect. 1. line. 3.

I omit that there be examples of Pulpits in Esdras, of chaires in the. 23. of Math. whereby the chaire of Moses our sauioure Christ meaning the doctrine of Moses, doth also declare the manner which they vsed in teaching: of sitting at the Communion (whiche the Euangelist noteth to haue bin done of our fauioure Christ with his disciples) whiche examples are not to be lightly chaunged, and vppon many occasions.

Io. Whitgifte.

Examples of Pulpits you say, we find in Esdras. True it is that in the. 8. of Nehem. we reade Esdras stoode vpon a Pulpit of wood, which he had made for the preaching, but the same was placed in the open stréete, neyther did Esdras any thing but reade. The other persons with the Leuites mentioned vers. 7. of that Chap. did cause the people to vnderstand the law: that is, made them giue diligent eare to the reading of the law. And although there be words in the. 8. verse, which (as they be translated) séeme to insinuate some kinde of interpretation, yet the meaning is nothing so: for these be the words, Et apposuerunt intellectum, & intellexerunt scripturam illam, that is (as learned men do interprete it) aduerterunt animum, they were attentiue to the reading, or* 1.100 as some translate it, Et legerunt in libro legis Dei distinctè & appositè ad intelligendum: & intellexerunt cum legeretur, And they read in the booke of the law of God, distinctly and in such sort, as they might easily vnderstand. Hereof may I much better gather that rea∣ding is preaching, than you can do that the scripture appointeth Pulpits. For though Esdras did so, is it therefore by and by a rule to be followed? You reade not of any of the Apostles that did in like manner, neither is there any mention made of Pulpits, from the beginning of the new testament to the end of the same. And this place ma∣keth rather for Pulpits to reade in, than for Pulpits to preach in.

It is most certaine that by the chaire of Moses in that place, is ment the doctrine of Moses, whether it declare any place or no made for Moses to teach the people in, that is but coniecturall: neyther haue we any example expressed either in Moses himselfe, or in any other that may resolue that doubt. Howsoeuer it is, the matter is not great. For things vsed in the old Church do not prescribe any rule to the Church of Christe, vnlesse it can be shewed Christe himselfe and his Apostles to haue vsed the same.

My meaning is that in the whole scripture, there is neither Pulpit nor chaire pre∣scribed to be vsed in the Church of Christe, but that and such other like things left to the disposition of the Church, as shall be thought most conuenient from time to time.

What though Christ sat at his last supper, doth it therefore follow that of necessi∣tie we must néedes sit? why must we not then as well be bound to receiue the same after supper? I say agayne that the scripture dothe no where prescribe, whither we shall sit, stand, or knéele, at the communion: if it do prescribe sitting why do some of

you vse walking, othersome standing, whiche both do more differ from sitting than knéeling doth.

Chap. 1. The eight Diuision.

T. C. Page. 16. Sect. 2. &. 3.

But this I cannot omit, that you make it an indifferent thing to preach the worde of God in Churches or in houses, that is to say, priuately or publikely. For what better interpretation can I haue than of your owne words, which saith by and by after, of Baptisme, that it is (a) 1.101 at the order of the Church, to make it priuate or publike. For if it be in the power of the Church to order that Baptis〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e may be ministred at the house of euery priuate person, it is also in hir power to ordayne that the word be preached also priuately. And then where is that whiche Salomon saith that (b) 1.102 wisedome crieth openly and in the streates, and at the corners of the streates where many 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ieete? and where be the examples of the old Church, which had besides the Temple at Ierusalem, erec∣ted vp Sinagogues in euery towne to heare the word of God, & minister the circumcisiō? (c) 1.103 what is become of the commaundement of our sauioure Christ, whiche willed his disciples that they should preach openly, and vpon the house topps, that which they hard in the eare of him and secret∣ly? and how do we obserue the example of our sauioure Christ, who to deliuer his doctrine from all suspicion of tumults and other disorders, sayd that he preached openly in the temple, and in the Si∣nagogues, albeit the same were very daungerous vnto him? and the example of the Apostles that did the sa〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ie? for as for the time of persecution, when the Church dare not, nor it is not meete, that it should shew it selfe to the enimie, no not then is the word of God nor the sacramentes priuately preached or ministred, nor ought to be.

For although they be done in the house of a priuate man, yet bycause they are and ought to be ministred in the presence of the congregation, there is neither priuate preaching, nor priuate bap∣tisme. For like as wheresoeuer the Queenes maiestie lyeth there is the Court, although it be in a gentleman his house, so wheresoeuer the Church meeteth, it is not to be holden priuate as tou∣ching the prayers, preachings, and sacraments, that shall be there ministred: so that I denie vnto you that the Chnrch hathe power to ordeyne at hir pleasure, whither preaching or ministring of Sacraments should be priuate or publike, when they ought not to be, but where the Church is, and the Church (d) 1.104 ought not to assemble (if it be not letteed by persecution) but in open places: and when it is driuen from them, those places where it gathereth itselfe togither, although they be o∣therwise priuate, yet are they for the time that the Churches do there assemble, and for respect of the word and sacraments, that are there ministred in the presence of the Churche, publike places. And so you see those (whome you charge slanderously with conuiuticles) are fayne to glase vp the windowes that you open to secret and priuate conuenticles.

Io. Whitgifte.

But this you cannot omitte, that I make it an indifferent thing to preach the worde of God in Churches or in houses. &c. it is an argument that you lacke good matter, when you make such excursions from the purpose. My words be, that the scriptures speake not one worde of meeting in Churches, fieldes, or houses too heare the word of God, of baptising in fonts, in basons, or riuets, o∣penly or priuately, at home or in the Church. &c. If I haue said vntruly, conuince me with scripture, and shew me those places, where these things be deter∣mined. Where do I say that these things be now indifferent? to haue the word prea∣ched is not indifferent but necessarie, to haue it preached in this place or in that place, in Churches, in fieldes, or in houses, is indifferent, vntill suche time as the Churche* 1.105 hath otherwise determined. So is it likewise in baptisme, the sacrament is necessa∣ry, the circumstances of time and place. &c. be committed to the disposition of the Churche, and remayne so long indifferent, vntill the Churche hathe taken order in them: which being done, then they be no more indifferente. Do you not know that, wherevnto so many Churches reformed, and learned men haue of late subscribed? it is the. 6. assertion. Res alioqui per se mediae, mutant quodammodò natur〈1 line〉〈1 line〉m. &c. Things other∣wise* 1.106 indifferente of themselues, after a sorte change their nature, when by some lawfull commaundemente, they are either commaunded, or forbidden, bycause neyther then

can be omitted contrary to the commaundement, if they are once commaunded, neyther done contrary to prohibition if they be prohibited, as it appeareth in the ceremoniall law. The place is not of the substance either of the word or of the sacraments: but yet to contemne or willingly to breake the order appointed by the Church in such matters, is sinne.

You say that I affirme it to be at the order of the Churche, to make baptisme priuate or publike. Surely you do me greate iniurie, and win your selfe small credite by thys* 1.107 kind of dealing. Is it all one to say, that the scripture hath not determined whether baptisme should be ministred opēly or priuately, at home or in the Church, and to say, that the Church may make baptisme priuate or publike? For hereby you would giue your readers to vnderstand, that I thinke it in the power of the Church to ap∣point that there should be no publike baptisme, wherin (as I said) you do me greate iniurie. My words therefore and meaning tend to this end, that the scripture hathe not any where expressed when baptisme should be celebrated publikely, when pri∣uately: but hathe left that to the determination of the Church, to do therin according to the circumstances of time, person. &c. Neither do I call baptisme priuate in any o∣ther* 1.108 respect than of the place: and therefore my meaning is, that the scripture hathe not determined where, or when we should baptise, at home in priuate families, or in publike and open places, as fields, Churches, &c. For we haue examples in scripture both of baptising in houses, and of baptising in fields. Act. 8. 9. 10. &. 26. Therefore tou∣ching the place, the scripture hath not determined any thing, and in the respect of the place I call it publike or priuate: although I sée nothing in the scripture to the cōtra∣ry, but vpon necessarie occasion, and other circumstances it may be priuate in the re∣spect of persons, that be presente at the celebrating of baptisme: for the number of standers by or of such as are to be baptised, is not of the substance of the sacramente, therefore in that also the Church may take order and hath therein to deale.

And as I thinke, that in such respects baptisme may be priuately administred, so* 1.109 thinke I also that in the like respects the word may be priuately preached. Neyther did the Apostles only preache in the Sinagogues, and in open places, but in priuate families and houses also, as it is manifest. Act. 5. Where it is said that the Apostles did not cease daily to teach and to preach Iesus Christ in the temple, and house by house. Act.* 1.110 10. Peter preached in Cornelius his house. &. Acts. 16. Paule preached in prison. And* 1.111 not only was the word preached priuately in respect of the place▪ but sometimes also* 1.112 in the respect of the persons, as Christe preached to the woman of Samaria alone.* 1.113 Io. 4. And Philip in the chariot to the Eunuch. Act. 8.* 1.114

Your scriptures brought in to proue that there may be no priuate preaching, are very farre fetched, and some of them very straungely applied. That which Salomon saith Prouerb. 8. proueth that God calleth all men by his word and by his works, to follow that which is good, and flye from that which is euill. And I thinke that the meaning of Sa∣lomon in that place is that God dothe offer his worde to all persons, in all places, so that there can be no ignorance pretended. But I pray you, how doth this argument follow, the worde of God is offered to all, and openly proclaymed: Ergo it may not be also priuately taught? all your proofes and examples that follow, be of like effect: they proue that the word of God ought publikely to be preached, but they do not take away priuate exhortations and preachings. It is true that both Christe and his Apostles taught in Smagogues, so it is true also that they taught in priuate families, as I haue declared: but yet I say, the scripture hathe not appointed any certaine place of prea∣ching. For Esdras red the law in the streates, Nehem. 8. wisedome crieth in the topps* 1.115 of the high places by the way side in the pathes, in the gates before the Citie. Pro. 8. Christ* 1.116 preached in the Mountaine Math. 5. in the Sinagogue, Math. 4. the Apostles in the* 1.117 temple, and in priuate families: do not you therfore sée, that there is no determinatiō∣of* 1.118 any place? wherefore the aptnesse of the place, and the conueniencie of it: like∣wise* 1.119 when the word is to be preached publikely, when priuately, is left to the iudge∣ment and ordering of the Church. And therefore it is true that I haue set downe, that

the scripture hath not dermined any thing of meeting in Churches, fieldes or houses to heare the worde of God: or of preaching in Pulpits, chaires, or otherwise.

There are and may be occasions, euen in the time of prosperitie, when bothe the word may be preached, and the Sacraments administred in priuate families, so that they be done according to the order of the Churche, and not in the contempt of com∣mon and publike assemblies. And I thinke that suche noble men and gentlemen as vpon oceasion either of infirmitie of body, or of distance of place, or some other vrgēt cause, haue the word of God preached in their priuate families, and the Sacraments ministred according to the order of the Churche, are greatly to be commended. Ney∣ther doth this open any window, to secrete and schismaticall conuenticles, (suche I meane as seeke corners) bycause they wil not kéep the orders & lawes of the Church, but contemne the same, and conspire in some new and erroneous opinions. In the which number those be, whome I haue truly charged with conuenticles, for they de∣spising the order of the Churche, haue wickedly separated themselues from the same, whose opinions notwithstanding you mainteine, although you would séeme to con∣demne their conuenticles. But it may be that you coumpt this time to be a time of per∣secution, and so excuse their doings.

To be short, when I speake either of priuate preaching or of priuate ministring the sacraments, I meane it especially in respecte of the place, and not in the respect of any schismaticall separation: so that hitherto you haue said nothing, that impugneth any thing that I haue written. Neyther haue I spoken any otherwise in all these things, than other learned and godly men haue done, as it is to be séene by all theyr seuerall authorities, which I haue in their places set downe.

Chapter. 1. the. 9. Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition. Page. 22. Sect. 2.

I pray you what ment Saint Paule in. 1. Co. 14. after he had pre∣scribed certaine orders vnto them to be obserued in the Church, thus generally to conclude, Omnia decenter & ordine fiant. Let all things be done de∣cently and in order. Doth he not there giue vnto them authoritie to make orders in the Church, so that al things be done in order and de∣cently? The best interpreters doe vnderstande this as a generall rule giuen vnto the Churche to examine hir traditions and constitu∣tions by: And therefore without all doubt their iudgement is, that the Church hath authoritie in externall things, to make orders, and appoint lawes not expressed in the worde of God, so that this rule of the Apostle be obserued.

Io. Whitgifte.

Here haue you not answered one word to that which I haue alleadged out of the* 1.120 1. Cor. 14. for the i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉stifying of my generall assertion in this point, nor to the interpre∣tation of it: that therefore being graunted, the rest must néedes stande in full force, that is, that the scripture hathe lefte many thinges to the discretion of the Church.

The opinion of auncient fathers and Councelles of things indifferent.

Chap. 2. the first Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 22 Sect. 3. 4.

NOw if either godly councels, or auncient fathers were any thing* 1.121 at all regarded of these men (as they be not, suche is their arro∣gancie) this controuersie might soone be decided.

For the most auncient fathers and best learned, as Iustinus Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian, and other, do expressely declare that e∣uen from the Apostles time, the Church hath always had authori∣tie in such matters, and hathe obserued diuers orders and ceremo∣nies, not once mentioned in the word of God.

T. C. Page. 16. Sect. 3. &. Page. 17. Sect. 1. 2.

Here are broughte in Iustin Martyr, Ireneus, Tertullian, Cyprian, and Councells as (a) 1.122 dumbe persons in the stage only to make a shew, and so they go out of the stage without saying any thing. And if they had had any thing to say in this cause for these matters in controuersie, there is no doubt but M. Doctor would haue made them speake. For when he placeth the greatest strēgth of his cause in antiquitie, he would not haue passed by Iustin, Ireneus, Tertullian, Cyprian, being so auncient, and taken Augustine which was a great time after them. And if the godly councels could haue helped here, it is small wisedome to take Augustine, and leaue them. For I thinke he might haue learned that amongst the authorities of men, the credite of many be better than of one: and that this is a generall rule, that as the iudgement of some notable personage is looked vnto in a matter that is debated, more than theirs of the common sort, so the iudgement of a counsell, where many learned men be gathered togither carieth more likelihoode of truth with it, than the iudge∣ment of one man, although it be but a prouinciall counsell, much more than if it be generall, & ther∣fore you do your cause greate iniurie, if you could alleadge them, and do not. This is once to bee obserued of the reader throughout your whole booke, that you haue well prouided that you should not be taken in the trip, for misaledging the scriptures, for that vnlesse it be in (b) 1.123 one or two points we heare continually (in stead of Esay, and Ierenty. S. Paule, and S. Peter, and the rest of the* 1.124 Prophets and Apostles, S. Augustine, and S. Ambrose 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, Dionisius Areopagita, Clement. &c. And therefore I cannot tell with what face we can call the Papistes from their antiquitie, councels and fathers to the triall of the scriptures, which in the controuersies which rise amongst ourselues, flie so far from them, that it wanteth not much, that they are not ba∣nished of your part, from the deciding of all these controuersies.

And if this be a sufficient proofe of things to say (c) 1.125 such a doctor said so, suche a councell de∣creede so, there is almost nothing so true but I can impugne, nothing so false, but I can make true: And well assured I am, that by their meanes, the principall groundes of our faythe maye be shaken.

And therefore bycause you haue (d) 1.126 no proofein the word of God, we comfort ourselues, assu∣red, that for so much as the foundations of the Archbyshop, and Lordship of Byshops and of o∣ther things, whiche are in question be not in heauen, that they will fall and come to the grounde, from whence they were taken. Now it is knowne they are from beneath and of the earth, and that they are of men and not of God.

Io. Whitgifte.

Here are many words which might well haue bin spared, but that you are desi∣rous* 1.127 to haue your modest speaches knowne to the world. In the. 25. page I haue told you where some of these dumbe persons speake their partes, but you are blinde when you should sée, and deafe when you should heare that which you would not gladly sée or here. I told you there, that Iustinus Martyr speaketh of this matter in his second Apologie, and in his booke of questions, and that Tertullian speaketh of the same in his booke de corona militis. It hathe pleased you in that whiche followeth to* 1.128 reproue me for translating into my booke other mens opinions, and authorities, and here though I haue quoted the places where you may find them, yet is it also your pleasure to spende your gibing and iesting eloquence vppon me for not translating

them. Well I will deceyue your expectation, and make them speake. Iustinus Martyr in his second Apology sayth that they vsed in baptising to call vpon the name of God for suche as were baptised, and after baptisme to carrie hym that was baptised* 1.129 to the place, where the brethren be gathered togyther, to praye bothe for themselues, and for hym also that is baptised, and in the ende of their prayers that they salute one another with a kisse. Likewise he there saythe, that when they celebrated the* 1.130 Lordes supper, there was vsed certaine prayers, and thankesgyuing to the whiche the people sayde Amen. Also that the Deacons did gyue to the people the bread and the cuppe, and carrie them lykewise to suche as were absent. In his booke of questi∣ons,* 1.131 he sheweth howe that singing was vsed in the Churche, and commendeth it, and that they vsed not to kneele at prayers on the Sunday, in token of the resurrecti∣on. Dyuers other suche ceremonies and orders dothe he recite, vsed in hys tyme, not prescribed by the worde of God, but appoynted by the Church, whereof some now be abrogated, bycause they be not so fitte for this time, as they were for that time.

Irenaeus speaketh very playnelye in that Epistle whyche he writte to* 1.132 Uictor Byshoppe of Rome, whereof also Eusebius maketh mention lib. 5. cap. 25. &. 26. In that Epistle he declareth the diuersitie of diuers Churches for the daye of Easter, the tyme of fasting, and such like: whiche plainely argueth that the scripture hath not determined all things, but left muche to the disposition of the Church.

Tertullian in his booke aduersus Praxean. saythe that the Churche then vsed tern〈1 line〉〈1 line〉* 1.133 mersione in baptismo, thirst dipping in baptisme. And in his booke de corona militis, although he recite some thinges whiche in tyme grew to be superstitious, yet dothe he there playnely declare, what his opinion is in this matter, he reciteth diuers customs of the Churche then vsed, whereof there is no mention in the scriptures: he decla∣reth that those whiche were to be baptised, must firste professe that they renounced the Deuill, his pomp, and his Angels, and that then they were thrice dipt in the water, ampli∣us aliquid respondentes quam dominus in Euangelio determinauit: answering somewhat more than the Lorde hath determined in the gospell. Likewise he sheweth, that the sa∣crament of the supper, which the Lord celebrated at supper, and commaunded to all, was then celebrated in the morning, and ministred only by those that be the chiefe. And in the end he sayth barum & aliarum buiusmodi disciplinarum si legem expostules scripturarum, nullam inuenies. &c. of these and such like orders, if thou shouldest require a law out of the scriptures, thou shalt finde none, and a litle after he addeth, Annon putas omni fideli licere concipere & constituere duntaxat quod Deo congruat, quod disciplinae conducat, quod Sa∣luti proficiat, dicente domino? Cur autem non & a vobis ipsis quod iustum est iudicatis? doest thou not thinke that it is lawfull for euery faithfull man, to conceiue and appoynte at the least that which agreeth to God, whiche is conuenient for discipline, whiche is profi∣table vnto saluation, seeing the Lord sayth, why do you not of your selues iudge that that is right? And in his booke De virginibus Veland. He hath these manifest words. Regula* 1.134 quidem fidei vna omninò est, sola immobilis & irreformabilis, credendi scilicet in Deum, vni∣cum* 1.135 omnipotentem. &c. Hac lege fidei manente, caetera iam disciplinae & conuersationis admit∣tunt nouitatem correctionis, operante scilicet & proficiente vsque in fiuem gratia Dei. There is only one rule of faith, which alone is immoueable, and not to be altered, to witte, to be∣leeue in one God the omnipotent creator of the worlde and in his sonne Iesus Christe borne of the Virgine Mary, crucifyed vnder Pontius Pilate, risen the thirde day from the dead, receyued into Heauen, sitting nowe at the righte hande of the father, and shall come to iudge the quicke and the dead, by resurrection of the fleshe: this lawe of faithe remayning, the other thynges of disciplyne, and trade of lyfe, do admitte alteration of amendmente, the grace of GOD woorking and profiting too the ende.

Cyprian Lib. 10. Epist. 12. mentioneth certaine rites about Baptisme, no where spo∣ken of in the Scriptures: and Lib. 4. Epist. 6. he sheweth it to haue bene the maner of the Church then, to receiue the Communion euery day, which the Scripture doth not commaunde.* 1.136

Thus you sée that these Doctors be not dumbe, but can speake sufficiently in that matter for the which they are alleaged. And leaste you should cauill bycause I saye that others also be of the same Iudgement, recyting onely Saynte Augustyne, I haue caused Ambrose, Ierome, and Basill to beare wytnesse in the same matter. The wordes of Ambrose be these, After that Churches were appoynted in euery place,* 1.137 and offices ordayned, the matter beganne otherwyse to be ordered. &c. And after that he had declared the difference betwixte the Apostolicall Churche, and the Churche in hys tyme touchyng Ceremonyes and gouernmente he concludeth thus. Therefore* 1.138 doe not the writyngs of the Apostles in all respectes agree, wyth the order which is now in the Churche, bycause these were written in the firste beginnings. Ierome writing ad* 1.139 Lucinium, and answering hys questions touchyng fastyng on the Sabboth daye, and dayly receyuyng the Communion, sayth on this sorte, sed ego illud te breuiter admo∣nendum puto, traditiones ecclesiasticas (presertim quae fidei non officiant) ita obseruandas, vt à maioribus traditae sunt. Nec aliorum consuetudinem, aliorum contrario modo subuerti. But this thyng I thinke meete briefely to admonishe thee of, that the Ecclesiasticall traditions (namely suche as doe not hynder faythe) are so to be obserued as they are delyuered of oure elders, neyther is the custome of one to be ouerthrowne with the contrarie cus∣tome of others.

Basill in hys. 63. Epistle written to the Ministers of Neocaesaria, recyteth the man∣ners* 1.140 and Customes aboute publike prayers and singing of Psalmes then vsed in the Churche, and there playnely declareth what hys iudgemente is touchyng thys question. I omit that whyche he speaketh of this matter in his booke de sancto spiri∣tu,* 1.141 where althoughe he gyueth too muche authoritie to vnwritten traditions, yet dothe it there appeare, that many thyngs were then vsed in the Church of Christ, whyche were not expressed in the worde of God. I myghte here alleage Socrates, who* 1.142 in his sifte Booke and. 22. Chapter of hys ecclesiasticall historie handleth this matter at large: and speakyng of Easter he saythe, The Apostle and the Gospell doe in no place laye a bonde of seruitude vpon them, whyche come to the preaching, But men them selues haue euery one, according as they thoughte meete, in theyr countryes cele∣brated of custome the feast of Easter, and other feastes for the resting from laboure, and the remembrance of the healthfull passion. &c. and in the same Chapter: No Religion obserueth the same rytes, althoughe it embrace the same doctrine of them, for they doe differ among themselues in rytes, whiche are of the same fayth. And so he procéedeth in declaryng the varietie of Ceremonyes and other obseruances and rytes in the Chur∣ches, whereby it is manyfest that (by hys Indgement) many things are committed to the disposition of the Churche, whyche are not expressed in the worde of God. And that the Churche hathe vsed thys libertie from tyme to tyme, to the same ef∣fecte speaketh Sozome. Lib. 7. Cap. 19. They (he meaneth Policarpus and Victor) thought* 1.143 it follye, (and not wythoute cause) to be separated one from another for Ceremonyes or Customes, whyche dyd agree in the principall poyntes of Religion, for you can not fynde the same rytes, and altogether lyke in all Churches, no thoughe they doe agree together. I myghte pester thys Booke (and that you knowe well enoughe) wyth the iudgement of all the auncient Fathers, that haue any occasion to speake of this mat∣ter, but these maye suffice to declare that I haue not vainely vsed their names, for mutes on the stage.

Touchyng Councels, I maruayle you wyll make any doubte of them, wher∣vnto* 1.144 tende the moste of theyr Canons, in matters of Ceremonyes, and gouern∣mente of the Churche, but to teache that the Scriptures haue not expressed all thyngs concernyng the same, bnt lefte them to the order and appoyntment of the Churche? I praye you where shall you fynde in the Scripture the. 13. Canon

Ancyrani: Conci. de vicarijs Episcoporum & eorum potestate? or the. 15. non debere pr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉sbyteros* 1.145 ecclesiastica iura vendere: and diuerse others in the same Councell? or the. 11. Canon Con∣cil.* 1.146 Neocaesari. of the certayne age of hym that ought to be minister? or the. 1. Canon Con∣cil Nicaeni: of Enuches? the fourth of ordering Byshoppes? the sixte of Metropoli∣tans? the seuenth of the Byshop of Ierusalem? the twentith of standyng in the tyme of Prayer? or the. 7. Canon Concil. Gangren or the. 18. or. 20. or y^e. 11. 15. 18. 19. &c. Concil. Are∣latens.* 1.147 But what shoulde I trouble the reader wyth suche particular rehearsals, of so manye Councels, whiche haue made suche a number of Canons concernyng suche matters, as muste be ordered in the Churche, whereof the Scripture hath parti∣cularly determyned nothyng? is it not therefore manyfest that Councels both gene∣rall and prouinciall, by their actes declare, that touchyng Cer〈1 line〉〈1 line〉monyes, discipline, and gouernment of the Churche, many things are lefte to the discretion of the Church, whiche be not expressed in the Scriptures?

And whereas you charge me for not alleaging of Scriptures, if I woulde* 1.148 wythoute discretion cyte places, nothyng pertayning to the purpose, as you hy∣therto haue done, I coulde vse a number: but I had rather haue one texte to my purpose, than a hundred wroong and wrested as yours be. Howebeit, there is no cause why you shoulde as yet complayne, for hitherto I haue alleaged moe than you haue answered. To the. 1. Cor. 14. (as yet vnanswered) I maye ioyne that which the* 1.149 Apostle sayth. 1. Cor. 11. Quemadmodùm tradidi vobis instituta tenetis. You keepe the or∣dinances as I delyuered them to you. The whych wordes Maister Caluine expoundyng sayth on thys sorte, I doe not denye but that there were some traditions of the Apostles* 1.150 not written, but I doe not graunt them to haue beene taken as partes of doctrine, or necessarie vnto saluation. VVhat then? euen suche as dyd pertayne to order and pollicie. For vve knovve that euerie Churche hathe libertie to ordayne and appoint suche a forme of gouernment, as is apte and profitable for it, bycause the Lorde therein hath prescribed no certainetie. So Paule the firste founder of the Church of Corinthe, dyd also frame it, wyth honest and godly institutions, that all things might there be done decently▪ and in order. And that also which is in the end of the Chapter: Other things wyll I set in order when I come. Wherevpon the same Mai∣ster* 1.151 Caluine sayth, But let suche toyes passe, seyng that it is certaine that Paule speaketh but of externall comelynesse, the vvhiche as it is put in the libertie of the Churche, so it is to be appoynted accordyng to the tyme, places, and persons.

In déede I glory not in wordes so muche of the Scriptures as yeu dee, but I truste that I haue as sure grounde there for anye thyng that I haue affyrmed, as you haue, and muche more, else woulde I be sorye. It is not beasting of the Scriptures in wordes, and falsely applying of them, that can cary away the matter with those that be learned and wyse, you knowe what Maister Caluine saythe of the Anabaptists in hys Booke written against them, Quià verò nulla specie illustriore seduci possunt miseri* 1.152 Christiani. &c. But bicause the wofull Christians, whiche with a zeale doe followe God, can not by any other more notable shewe be seduced, than when the worde of God is pre∣tended: the Anabaptistes (agaynst whome we write) haue that euermore in their mouthe, and alwayes talke of it. And yet in lawfull matters, not expressed in the Scriptures, I knowe not to whome we shoulde resorte to knowe the vse and antiquitie of them, but to the Councels, stories, and doctors.

The opinion of S. Augustine of things indifferent.

Chap. 3. the first Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 23. Sect. 1.

That notable learned Father Augustine hathe diuerse sayings* 1.153 touchyng thys matter worthy to be noted. In his Epistle ad Casu∣lanum. 86. he sayth thus, In his rebus de quibus nihil certi statuit scriptura diuina, mos populi Dei, vel instituta maiorum, pro lege tenenda sunt, in those thyngs vvherein the holy Scripture hathe determined no certainetie, the custome of the peo∣ple of God, & the traditions or decrees of our forefathers, are to be holden for a lavve. Whereby it is manifest, that those things maye be retai∣ned in the Churche whych are not expressed in the Scripture. In the same Epistle he reporteth the aunswere that Ambrose made vnto hym, beyng demaunded whether it were lawfull to faste on the Sabboth daye, or not to faste, seyng that among the Churches there was some diuersitie in thys poyut. Quando bic sum, sayth he, non ie∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uno* 1.154 Sabbato, quando Romae sum, ieiuno Sabbato, & ad quamcunque ecclesiam veneritis, eius mo∣rem seruate, si pati scandalum non vultis aut facere. VVhen I am here, I faste not on the Sabboth, vvhen I am at Rome, I doe faste on the Sabboth, and to what Churche so euer you come, keepe the custome thereof, if you vvill ney∣ther suffer offence nor gyue offence. The whole Epistle is worthy of reading.

T. C. Page. 17. Sect. 3. 4. 5. 6.

The Answerer goeth aboute to proue, that they came yet out of good earthe, and from good men, whych if he had obtayned, yet he maye well knowe, that it is no good argumente to proue that they are good. For(*) 1.155 as the beste earthe bryngeth forth weedes, so doe the beste men bring forthlyes and errours. But let vs heare what is brought〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, that if this visarde and shewe of truth be taken awaye, all men may perceiue, howe good occasion we haue to complaine, and howe iust cause there is of reformation. In the fyrst place of Saynt Augustine there is nothing against any thing which we holde, for that, that the Churche may haue things not expressed in, the scrip∣ture, is not(a) 1.156 against, that it ought to haue nothing but that may be warranted by the scripture. For they may be according to the scripture, and by the Scripture, which are not by plaine ter〈1 line〉〈1 line〉es expressed in the Scripture. But agaynst you it▪ maketh much, and ouerturneth all your buylding in this booke. For if in those things which are not expressed in the Scripture, they are to be obser∣ued of the Churche, which are the customes of the people of God, and the decrees of oure forefa∣thers, then how can these things be varyed according to time, place, and persons, (which you saye should be) when as that is to be retayned, which the people of God hath vsed, and the decrees of the forefathers haue ordayned. And then also howe can we doe safelyer, than to followe the Apostles customes and the Churches in theyr tyme, whych we are sure are oure forefathers, and the peo∣ple of God.

Besides that, how can we retaine the customes and constitutions of the Papists in such things, which were neither the people of God nor our forefathers.

I will not enter nowe to discusse, whether it were well done to fast in all places, according to the custome of the place. You (b) 1.157 oppose Ambrose and Augustine: I coulde oppose Ignatius & Ter∣tullian* 1.158 whereof the one sayth, it is (nefas) a detestable thing to fast vpon the Lordes day, the other that it is to kill the Lord, and this is the inconuenience that commeth of suche vnlearned kinde of reasoning: S. Ambrose saith so and therefore it is true.

And although Ambrose & Augustine, being straungers and priuate men at Rome, would haue so done, yet it followeth not that if they hadde bene Citizens & ministers there, that they would haue done it, & if they had done so to, yet it followeth not but y^e they wold haue spokē against that appoin∣ment of dayes & 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 of fasting, wherof Eusebius saith that Montanus was the first au∣thor. I speake of y^e which they ought to haue done, for otherwise I know they both thought cor∣ruptly

of fasting (when as the one sayth) it was remedie or rewarde to fast other dayes, but in Lent,* 1.159 not to faste, was synne. And the other asketh, what saluation we can obtayne if we blot not our synnes by fastyng, seyng that the Scripture sayth, that fastyng and almes doth delyuer from sinne, and therefore calleth them new teachers, that shut out the merite of fasting, which I there∣fore recyte bicause you would seeme by Augustine and Ambrose iudgements to alowe of the weke∣ly and commaunded fastes.

Io. Whitgifte.

I haue sufficiently proued that the Scripture hathe not expressed all things that may be vsed in the Church touching ceremonies, order, and such matters, for that is the question we haue nowe in handling, and for further proofe and confirmation of the same, I doe not disdaine the authoritie of any man, especially of Augustine, a man* 1.160 (for his excellent learning and sound iudgement in most poynts of Religion) estéemed of all that haue any shewe of learnyng, or sparkle of modestie: his opinicn of the sufficiencie of the Scripture in matters of saluation, of the authoritie of it in iudge∣ing matters of controuersie is perfecte, and sounde, as may be séene Lib. 2. aduersus Cresco. gramma. Lib. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. contra Maximi: Lib. de vnitate ecclesiae. Lib. 2 de doct. Christ▪ Chap. 16. &. 20. Euang. Iohannis. Epist. 112. and in a number of places else: he speaketh also of Ceremo∣nyes and traditions, as moderately, as diuinely and as warely as any man dothe, as it appeareth euidently in these places that I haue in my answere alleaged. And ther∣fore he is not wyth suche contempte to be reiected, nor yet defaced wyth vntrue surmises.

That which commeth from so good and learned a man is the rather to be belée∣ued, so long as it is not repugnant to the worde of God. And althoughe the best earth bringeth forth some weedes, yet the good fruite muste not for the wéedes sake be refused. This is a very meane reason: good men sometimes erre and be deceiued, therefore they must neuer in any thing be beléeued.

But to come to the purpose: you say, that this fyrst place of Saint Augustine is no∣thing agaynst any thing that you holde. &c. Surely and it maketh wholly for that which I holde: for it proueth directly that there be some things wherein the Scripture hath not determyned any certaintie, but lefte them to the disposition of others: for he sayth In bis rebus de quibus nibil certi statu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 scriptura diuina▪ &c. and that these things be not suche as be repugnant or against the worde of God; but accordyng to the rule of Saint Paule. 1. Cor. 14. (if you were not of purpose disposed agaynst your owne conscience and knowledge to abuse the reader) you myghte easily vnderstande by my expressed words, vttered in this portion of my answere, and in all other places where I haue occasion to speake of the like matters.

I woulde wishe you to deale sineerely: the question that we haue nowe in▪* 1.161 hande is, VVhether the Scripture hath expressed all externall things touchyng the or∣ders, Ceremonyes and gouernment of the Churche. I proue it hath not, both by the Scripture it selfe, and by manyfest examples, and by the iudgement of the beste learned: you not beyng able to answere, and yet desyrous to séeme to saye some∣what, to shifte of these examples and authorities, dallie at the matter, and would make your Reader beléeue that I woulde haue thyngs vsed in the Churche con∣trarye, or not accordyng to the Scriptures: from the whych opinion I am as farre of as you, and a greate waye farther, excepte you reuoke some poyntes of youre Booke. You shoulde therefore nowe haue kepte you to the improuyng of thys generall proposition: and if hereafter in speakyng of particular matters I had approued any thing against the word of God, you might haue spent▪ your wit and elo∣quence in confuting of that.

You saye that thys place of Saynte Augustyne maketh muche agaynst me. &c. but you are greatly deceyued, for Saint Augustyne in that place doth not gyue a certayne rule to the whole Churche, but to particular men, for it is hys aunswere so Ca∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ulanus demaundyng of hym Vtrùm liceat sabbato ieiunare. A priuate man maye not take vpon hym to violate the particular orders of anye particular Churche, much lesse suche orders as be obserued of the whole Churche, excepte they be agaynst the Scriptures, for bothe in thys and suche other rules of Augustyne that is ge∣nerally to be obserued whyche the same Augustyne, dothe adde in hys, 118. Epistle ad Ianuarium: quod nequè contra fidem nequè bonos mores iniungitur. &c. And that thys* 1.162 rule In bis rebus de quibus nihil certi. &c. is gyuen to particular men to dryue them from schismes and contentions in the Churche, it is euident by that whyche the same Augustyne writeth, in the ende of that Epistle ad Casulanum, VVherefore if* 1.163 you wyll willyngly content your selfe wyth my counsell (namely whych haue in this cause, being by you required and constrayned spoken peraduenture more than enough) doe not resiste your Byshoppe herein, and followe that whyche he dothe, wythout any scruple or doubte. Wherefore when Saint Augustyne sayth Mos populi Dei, &c. hys meanyng is that they are to be obserued as rules to kéepe priuate and par∣ticular men in order, and in quiet obedience to the Churche. Althoughe in deede* 1.164 the Churche it selfe maye not wythoute iuste cause, chaunge. suche thyngs as haue beene generally obserued, not beyng contra fidem & bonos mores, agaynst faythe and good manners, as the Lordes daye, the daye of the Resurrection, Ascention, and suche lyke. And there maye be iuste causes, why thyngs once determyned by the Churche, shoulde not be chaunged afterwardes, thoughe before the same thyngs were arbitrarye, and myghte haue béene otherwyse, and in some other manner decréed as the Churche had thoughte moste conuenient: If no suche cau∣ses be, it maye alter anye vse, Ceremonye, or order, whiche it hathe before de∣termyned, as Saynt Augustyne hym selfe declareth Epist. 118. ad Ianuarium. His* 1.165 enim causis, id est, propter fidem, aut propter mores, vel emendari oportet quod perperam fiebat, vel institui quod non fiebat. Ipsa quippe mutatio consuetudinis etiam quae adiuu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t vti∣litate, nouitate perturbat. For these causes, that is to saye, for faythe and good man∣ners, eyther that muste be amended whiche was euyll done, or appoynted which was not done, for euen that chaunge of Custome, whych helpeth throughe profitte, doth trou∣ble through noueltie.

Nowe howe true thys collection of yours is: Augustyne prescribeth thys rule to Casulanus, that in those thyngs wherein the Scripture hathe determyned no cer∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉aynetie, he shoulde followe the Custome of the people of God, and the decrees of oure forefathers, that is, that he shoulde vse hymselfe in those thyngs▪ that be not a∣gaynste faythe and good manners accordyng to the order of the Churches where he commeth, therefore these Customes vpon iuste cause maye not be altered by the Churche, let the learned Reader iudge. Ap〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nate man (a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 I sayde) may not breake the lawfull and good orders of the Churche, thoughe they be not expres∣sed in the worde of God, yet maye suche: as God hathe gy〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 that authoritie vn∣to in hys Churche, alter and chaunge them as shall be moste 〈◊〉〈◊〉 euen ac∣cording to this r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉le of Augustyne (bis 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉im 〈◊〉〈◊〉 id est, aut propter fidem, aut prop〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ores, vel emendari oportet quod perpe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉m fiebat, vel institui quod non f〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ebat. &c.) before by me recyted.

We must followe suche cu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉omes of the Apostles and examples, as they haue vsed* 1.166 and done for vs to followe, but suche customes or doyngs of the Apostles as 〈◊〉〈◊〉 eyther peculiar vnto thems〈1 line〉〈1 line〉lues, o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 onely for such 〈◊〉〈◊〉 they 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in▪ we are not compelled to followe. For as in the Scriptures 〈◊〉〈◊〉 be 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉me pre∣ceptes generall, some onely 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉rsonall, so are there in the sa〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 of examples and or∣ders, some that for euer are to be obserued, and some for a 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 that there were suche customes, and orders among them shal be declared in seue〈1 line〉〈1 line〉all places, as occasion is minis〈1 line〉〈1 line〉red.

Whether we haue receyued, or maye retayne customes. &c. of the Papistes or no, is partly to be discussed where I speake of apparell, and partly in other places, where more particular occasion is offered to speake of the same: and therefore I will passe it ouer vntill I come to those places. Whyther it were well done to fast in all places accor∣ding to the custome of the place or no, is not the question.

I looke to Augustynes meanyng and purpose, not to euerye one of hys examples: howbeit I thinke that there is a greate difference, betwixte the manner of fastyng vsed then in the Churche, and the manner of fasting vsed nowe in some Chur∣ches. I thinke that in Augustynes tyme a man myghte haue obserued this rule of fastyng wythout anye offence to God. But I doe not thinke that he may doe so in lyke manner nowe, bycause it is certayne that in the Churche of Rome, there are manye wicked opinions, bothe of differences of meates, tymes, &c. and also of merite ioyned to theyr fastyng, and therefore are contra fidem & bonos mores, and so not wythin the compasse of thys rule, of S. Augustine.

I perceyue no repugnancie at all betwixte Ambrose, Augustyne, Ignatius and* 1.167 Tertullian, For the Sabboth daye mentioned by Ambrose and Augustyne, is not the Lordes daye, whych we call the Sundaye, and whereof both Ignatius and Tertullian speake: but it is the Saterday whych is called Sabbatum. And that this is true, you myghte haue read in the same Epistle of Augustyne to Casulanus, where he saith thus: VVhereas you aske of me, whyther it be lawfull to faste on the Sabboth daye: I* 1.168 aunswere, if it were by no meanes lawfull, truely neyther Moyses, nor Helias, nor oure Lorde him selfe woulde haue fasted fortie dayes together. But by thys reason it is con∣cluded, that the faste on the Lordes daye is lawfull also: notwythstandyng, whosoeuer doth thynke that thys daye oughte to be dedicated vnto fastyng, as some doe obserue the Sabboth fasting, he shall gyue no small offence to the Churche. And after in the same Epistle: And truely of the Sabboth day the case is more easie, bycause the Church of Rome dothe faste, and some other also, althoughe but fewe eyther of those that be nexte, or farre from it. But to faste on the Lordes daye is a greate offence, especially since that detestable heresye of the Manicheis, which is muche repugnant to the Catho∣like fayth, and moste manifestly contrarye to the Scriptures of God, hath bene openly knowen: whych doe appoynte vnto their hearers thys daye as lawfull to be fasted, wher∣by it is come to passe, that the faste on the Lordes daye is accompted more horryble. You sée therefore howe you maye be deceyued for all the great reading you woulde séeme to be of: for these fathers agrée among them selues, and you haue faulted in opposyng them to Augustyne and Ambrose: so that for anye thing that is yet proued a∣gaynst them, a man may well vse theyr authoritie in such matters wythout that in∣conuenience that you suppose: for I knowe howe farre they them selues would be beléeued, and wherevnto theyr authoritie extendeth.

It is lyke that bothe Ambrose and Augustine woulde haue done that themsel∣ues, which they moued other men vnto, and much more beyng Citizens, than beyng straungers: it is also like that if they had bene Ministers there, they woulde haue in time and place reproued suche things as were amisse; for it had bene their duetie so to doe: yet doe I lykewise thinke that they would haue had great respect to that aduer∣tisement, that Augustine gaue to Casulanus in that Epistle in these wordes, vti{que} cauendis est ne tempestate contentionis, serenitas charitatis obnubiletur. Verily we muste take heede least* 1.169 in the storme of contention, the fairenesse of loue be darkened.

The errors which Ambrose or Augustine had, must〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 not preiudice their authoritie in speaking truely. This is but a very simple kinde of answering, to denie the author where be speaketh truely, bycause in some other place he hath erred, and bene decey∣ued. I neither alledge Ambrose nor Augustine, to allowe or disalow weekely and comman∣ded fastes but to proue the matter that I haue in hand, which is, that the scripture hath not expressed all things vsed in the Churche. Howbeit, I know nothing in this place affirmed either by Ambrose or Augustine touching fasting, which may not be obserued without iust offence.

Chapter. 3. the. 2. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 23. Sect. 2.

That whiche he writeth in his Epistle ad Ianuarium. 118 is a most* 1.170 playne declaration of his iudgement in this matter: Illa autem quae non scripta sed tradita custodimus, quae quidem toto terrarum orbe obseruantur, dantur intelligi, vel ab ipsis Apostolis, vel plenarijs concilijs, quorum est in Ecclesia saluberrima authoritas, commendata at{que} statuta retineri, sicuti quod domini passio, & resurrectio, & ascensio in coelum, & aduentus de coelo spiritus sancti anniuersaria solennitate celebrantur, & si quid aliud tale occurrerit, quod serua∣tur ab vniuersa quacun{que}se diffundit ecclesia. Those things vvhiche be not vvritten, but kept by tradition, vvhich are obserued through the vvhole vvorld, are to be vnderstanded, either to be deliuered vnto vs, from the Apostles them selues, or else decreed by generall Councels, vvhose authoritie is greate in the Churche, as that vve yerely vvith solemnitie celebrate the passion of the Lorde, and his resurrection, his ascention into heauen, and the comming of the holy Ghost, and if there be any other thing that is obserued of the vvhole Churche.

T. C. Pag. 18. Lin. 1. & Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4.

What you meane to cite this place ad Ianuarium. 118. I can not tell. You charge the authors of the Admonition to be conspired with the Papistes: I will not charge you so, but will thinke better of you, vntill the contrarie do more appeare.

But I appeale to the iudgement of all men, if this be not * 1.171 to bring in poperie agayne, to al∣lowe of S. Augustines saying, wherein he sayth, that the celebrating of the day of the passion. &c. is either of some generall Councell, or of the Apostles commaunded and decreed: whereby a gate is open vnto the Papistes, to bring in, vnder the colour of traditions, all their beggerie whatsoe∣uer. For you playnely confirme, that there is some thing necessarie to be obserued, whiche is not contayned any wayes in the Scripture. For to keepe those holydayes, is not contayned in the Scripture, neither can be concluded of any parte thereof, and yet they are necessarie to be kepte, if they be commaunded of the Apostles. Therefore in your opinion, some thing is necessarie to be kepte, whiche is not contayned in the Scriptures, nor can not be concluded of them. And if you say, that S. Augustine leaueth it in doubt, whether it were the Apostles tradition and statute, or a generall Councels, then you bring vs yet to a worse poynte, that we can not be assured of that whiche is necessarie for vs to knowe, that is, whether the Apostles did ordayne that these dayes shoulde be kepte, as holydayes, or the Councels. And that it is S. Augustines meaning to father* 1.172 suche like things of Apostles, it may appeare by that which he writeth, saying: There are many things whiche the whole Churche holdeth, and therefore are well beleeued to be commaunded of the Apostles, althoughe they be not founde written. * 1.173 If this iudgement of S. Augustine be a good iudgement, and a sounde, then there be some things commaunded of God, whiche are not in the scriptures, and therefore there is no sufficient doctrine contayned in the scriptures, wherby we may be saued. (a) 1.174 For all the commaundements of God, and of the Apostles, are needefull for our saluation.

And (b) 1.175 marke I pray you, whither your affections carie you: before you sayde, that the Lordes day, whiche was vsed for the day of rest in the Apostles time, may be changed, as the place and houre of prayer, and the day of the passion and resurrection. &c. you either thrust vpon vs as the decree of the Apostles, or at least put vpon vs a necessitie of keeping of them, least happily in breaking of them, we might breake the Apostles decree, for you make it to lye betweene the Coun∣cels and the Apostles, whiche of them decreed this.

And do you not perceyue howe you still reason agaynst your selfe? For if the Church haue had so great regarde to that whiche the Apostles did in the〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉es, that they kepte those things which are not written, and therefore are doubtfull whether euer they vsed them or no, howe much 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ore shoulde we holde our selues to these things whiche are written that they did, and of the which we are assured?

As touching the obseruation of these holydayes, I will referre the Reader vnto an other place, where occasion is giuen agayne to speake of them.

Io. Whitgifte,

My meaning therein I haue set downe in my answere. It is to let you vnder∣stande* 1.176 S. Augustines iudgement in the matter we haue in hande. The rule is true and good, and so farre from establishing any péece of Poperie, that if rather quite o∣uerthroweth the same.

By it we may proue the supremacie whiche the Bishop of Rome claymeth ouer

all Churches, neither to be written in the worde, nor yet to be appoynted by the A∣postles, nor yet determined by auncient generall Councels: for neither hath he bin alwayes, nor in all places taken to be the head of the Church. And it is manyfest that Phocas the traytor and murderer, gaue first vnto him and his Churche that prero∣gatiue, and therfore not lefte vnto him by the Apostles, nor giuen him by the gene∣rall Councels. The like may be sayde of all other thinges vsed in the Churche a∣gaynst the worde of God. For it is certayne, that they haue not béene generally ob∣serued in all places, and at all times: and if some of them haue bëene so obserued, yet not in that maner and forme, that the Churche of Rome dothe nowe obserue them. So that you finde fault with this rule, before you haue cause. Master Zuinglius (who woulde haue béene lothe one whit to strengthen the Papistes) speaking of the lyke place of S. Augustine, in his booke de baptismo, sayth thus: But leauing those thinges,* 1.177 let vs returne to the wordes of Augustine, who among other thinges addeth this: Quan∣quàm quod vniuersa tenet ecclesia nec concitijs institutum, sed semper retentum est, non nisi autho∣ritate Apostolica traditum rectissimè creditur. &c. Let these words (sayth he) preuayle with other mē as they may, yet no mā can denie, but that there lieth great waight of authoritie in them. For if there be nothing in Councels concluded of the baptising of Infants: and yet the same was vniuersally of the whole Churche obserued in Angustines time, what other thing can be gathered, but that it hathe alwayes beene vsed without contradiction. Master Caluine also Lib. Insti. Cap. 13. Sect. 21. vseth this rule of Augustine to the same purpose, where he speaking of Popishe traditions, for the whiche they abuse the authoritie of Augustine, saythe thus: Ego verò non aliundè quam ex ipsius Augustini verbis solutionem afferam. Quae toto inquit terrarum orbe seruantur, vel ab ipsis Apostolis, vel concilijs generalibus, quorum est in ecclesia saluberrimā authoritas, statuta esse intelligere licet. Ve∣rily I will fetche a solution from no other place, than from the very wordes of Augustine. Those thinges (sayth he) which are obserued throughout the whole world, are vnderstode to haue bin instituted, either of the Apostles themselues, or of generall Councels. &c. As it is in the answere to the Admonition.

I knowe no reason why the Apostles maye not be sayde to be the authors of celebrating the day of the Passion. &c. Neither yet doe I vnder stande anye cause why the Churche maye not still obserue the same: sure I am, that they were not the authors of the superstitions and errours vsed in them by the Papistes, ney∣ther dothe Augustine saye so: for this is no good argument to saye, the Apostles appoynted these dayes to be celebrated: Ergo, they appoynted the manner of cele∣brating vsed by the Papistes. The dayes maye be wyth more godlynesse, and profite to the Churche obserued (béeing clensed from super stition and errone∣ous doctrine) than abrogated. Neyther is thys to open a gate to Papisticall traditions, but to shutte it close vp, as I haue sayde before. For let the Papistes (if they can) name anye wycked thing vsed in their Churche, whiche eyther bathe béene generally obserued, or wherof I am not able to shewe the first author and inuentor.

Neyther Aug〈1 line〉〈1 line〉in this place, nor I in any place haue sayde, or con〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 it 〈◊〉〈◊〉 thing not cōntayned in the Scripture, to bee so necessarie to bee obserued, that (vpon inst con∣sideration) it may not be. altered by suche as haue authoritie. And 〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉all that you doe say, haue sayd, or shall say 〈◊〉〈◊〉 that effecte, is forged, and vntrue, deuised onely by you as a shifte to flye vnto, when otherwise you are to seeke for answere.

To these your wordes, they are necessarie to be kept, if they be commanded by the Apostles▪ (meaning suche things as Augustine speaketh of) I answere with master Caluin, who as I tolde you before, writing vpon these wordes. 1. Cor11: Quemadmodum tra∣didi vobis, &c. dothe graunt that there were some traditions of the Apostles not written, but he denieth them to be taken aspartes of doctrine, o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 necessarie to saluation, saying, that they be onely suche as pertayne to order and pollicie.

The rest of this section of yours is nothing but: Petitio Principij. For neither doe I moue any such doubt in Augustines words, neither, is it materiall whether I do, or no: nether yet is it true that there is any thing commaunded of. God, or of the Apostles, as necessarie to saluation, whiche is not contayned in the worde of God: neyther

are these and suche like traditions partes of doctrine, and of saluation (as M. Caluin truely sayth) but of order and pollicie.

Who woulde thinke that any man (excepte he had hardened his face, without* 1.178 blushing to affirme vntruthes) would haue fallen into suche grosse absurdities, and vttered suche straunge assertions voyde of all truthe. Haue you euer read in Scrip∣ture, or in the writinges of any learned man, or can you by reason proue this Para∣dox, that all the commaundements of God and of the Apostles are needefull for our saluation?

What is to lay an intollerable yoke and burthen vpon the neckes of men, if this be not? or whereby could you more directly bring vs into the bondage of the lawe, from the whiche we are made free, than by this assertion? for if all the commaundements* 1.179 of God. &c. are needefull for our saluation, then must we be bounde vpon necessitie of sal∣uation, to obserue the whole Ceremoniall law, which was the commaundement of God. What? was the commaundement vnto Abraham, to offer his sonne Isahac:* 1.180 vnto the Israelites to robbe the Egyptians: vnto Moses to put off his shoes: vnto* 1.181 Saule to kill Amalech, and infinite other, needefull for our saluation? is the commaun∣dement* 1.182 of the Apostles to abstayne from bloud, and that whiche is strangled: or of* 1.183 Paule vnto Timothie, to drinke wine. &c. needefull for our saluation? What a tor∣ment* 1.184 is this doctrine able to bring vnto a weake conscience, whiche hathe not obser∣ued* 1.185 any one of these? You muste therefore vnderstande, that there are diuers kindes of commaundementes of God, and of the Apostles, some generall, and giuen to all: other* 1.186 personall, and pertayne onely to one singular person, or to one nation and kinde of people. &c. Agayn there are some which are perpetual, & not to be omitted or altered: other which are temporall, and may be omitted or altered, as the circūstance of time, place, & persons doth require. Wherby it may appeare, howe grossely you haue erred, in affirming, that all the commaundements of God, and of the Apostles, are needefull for oure saluation. I might in more ample maner prosecute this matter, but this that hathe bin spoken may suffice.

What I haue sayde of chaunging the Lordes day, and howe you haue satisfied my wordes, is declared before: and so is the answere made likewise vnto this your féeble conclusion, grounded vpon a falie principle.

Which of vs two is caried furthest by his affections, let the indifferēt reader iudge, by these and suche other like dealings of yours.

I haue tolde you before howe muche this and the other places of S. Augustine maketh for my purpose, whiche you can not but vnderstande, if you soughte not corners to creepe into, for the auoyding of suche reasons and authorities as be moste apte for my purpose.

Things whiche the Apostles haue done, for vs to followe, without any exception may not be violated, but the question is, whether these things whiche they haue done and written, be sufficient for the ordering and gouernment of all Churches, in all times and states, or no. And whether in all things that they haue done, we may or oughte to follow them, both which you haue hitherto very slenderly touched.

Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 24. Sect. 1. 2. 3. & Pag. 25. Sect. 1.

And agayne, Quod ne{que} contra fidem, ne{que} contra bonos mores iniungitur, indifferenter est habendum, & pro eorum inter quos viuitur societate seruandum est, That vvhich is enioy∣ned, being neither agaynst fayth, nor good maners, is to be counted indiffe∣rent, and to be obserued, as the societie of those vvith vvhome vve lyne requiteth.

In the same Epistle answering this question (whether vpon the

Thursday before Easter, the Lordes supper shoulde be celebrated in the morning, or at nighte, because Christe dyd institute this Sa∣crament, and deliuer the same to hys Disciples after supper, he gy∣ueth these three rules worthy to be noted, the first is this: If the holy Scripture prescribe any thing to be done, there is no doubte but that muste be obserued, as it is there prescribed. The seconde is this: That if any thing be vniuersally obserued of the vvhole Churche (not repug∣nant to the Scriptures) (for so he meaneth) not to keepe that, or to rea∣son of that is madnesse. The thirde: If it be not vniuersally obserued, but diuersly in diuers Churches: Faciat quis{que} quod in ea ecclesia in quā venit inuenerit: Let euery man do as he findeth in that Churche into the vvhiche he com∣meth, modònon sit contra fidem aut contra mores, So that it be not agaynst faythe or good maners, for so he addeth.

In the same Epistle agayne he sayth, that the Lorde hath not in Scripture declared in what order and maner his Supper shoulde be celebrated, but lefte that to his Disciples. And in his hundreth and nintenth ad Ianuar. In those things (sayth he) that be diuersly obser∣ued in diuers places, this rule as moste profitable is to be kepte, that those things vvhich be not agaynst faythe, neither good maners, and make some∣thing to exhorte vnto a better life, vvheresoeuer they are instituted, vve ought not onely not to disallovve them, but to prayse them, and to follovv them. By all these places of this learned father it is euident, that it hathe beene receyued from time to time as a certayne truthe, that the Church of Christ hath authoritie to ordayne and constitute, as shall be necessarie, in those things before of me rehearsed.

For a further proofe heereof, I coulde alleage that auncient and learned father Iustinus Martyr, in his seconde Apologie pro* 1.187 Christianis, and in his booke of questions. Tertullian in his booke Decoro∣na militis. Basill also in his. 63. Epistle writtē to the ministers of Neocaesaria.* 1.188 Eusebius Lib. 5. Ecclesiasti. histor. Cap. 25. &. 26. and diuers other, but I omit* 1.189 them for breuitie sake, neither doe I alleage those learned fathers,* 1.190 because I thinke their authoritie any thing at all preuayleth with the authors of the Libell, but for the wyse, discrete, humble, and learned, whose humilitie and wysdome wyll not suffer them to des∣pise the iudgements of so learned and godly fathers.

T. C. Pag. 18. Sect. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. & Pag. 19. Sect. 1.

As for that rule that he giueth when he say the, what so euer is not. &c. and for the last of the three rules, I receyue them with his owne interpretation, whiche he hathe afterwarde in 119. Epist. ad Ianuarium, whiche is, that it be also profitable.

And as for those three rules, which you say, are worthy to be noted, I can see nothing, that they helpe your cause one whitte, for I knowe no man that euer denied, but that the Church may in suche thinges as are not specified and precisely determined, make orders, so they be grounded of those generall rules which I haue before alleaged out of S. Paule.

And as for the seconde of the three rules, I can not at any hande allowe it, for when all Chri∣stianitie was ouerrunne with poperie, thinges were vniuersally obserued, whiche to keepe were meere wickednesse, and this strengtheneth the Papistes vniuersalitie.

Concerning your Glose (if it be not repugnant to the scripture) besides that it is not inough, because it muste be grounded by the Scripture, and that it is wicked to giue suche authoritie to any decree of men, that a man shoulde not enquire of it, or reason of it, I haue shewed that he mente nothing lesse. For affirming that suche thinges are the Apostles commaundementes, his meaning was, that they shoulde be without all exception receyued, and absolutely. 〈◊〉〈◊〉

muche better is it that wee take heede to the words of the Apostle, than eyther to S. Augustines or yours, whiche sayth, that if he, or an Angell from heauen, shoulde preache any other (1) 1.191 Gospel, than that whiche he had preached, that they shoulde holde him accursed: he saythe not any con∣trarie or repugnant doctrine, but any other Gospell.

But tell me, why(2) 1.192 passed you by that in Augustine which he writeth to Ianuarie likewise, that those thinges whiche are not contayned in the Scripture, nor decreed of Councels, nor con∣firmed by generall customes, but are varied by the maners of Regions, and of men, vpon occasion offered, oughte to be cutte off, althoughe they seeme not to be agaynst faythe, because they presse with seru〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e burdens, the religion whiche Christe woulde haue free. This sentence belyke was to hotte for you, you could not carie it. Therest whose names you recite (whiche you say you leaue off for breuitie sake) I leaue to the iudgement of the Reader to consider, wherefore they bee lefte out, seeing that Augustine, in whome you put so great trust, answereth so little to your expecta∣tion. This is certayne, that bre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tie (whiche you pretende) was in small commendations wyth you, (3) 1.193 whiche make so often repetitions, stuffe in diuers sentences of doctours and wryters, to proue thinges that no man denieth, translate whole leaues to so small purpose, (4) 1.194 vpon so lighte occasions make so often digressions, sometymes agaynst the vnlearnednesse, sometymes agaynst the malice, sometymes agaynst the intemperancie of speeche of the authors of the Admonition, and euery hande whyle pulling oute the sworde vpon them, and throughout the whole booke spor∣ting your selfe with the quotations in the margent: so that if all these were taken oute of your booke, as winde out of a bladder, we shoulde haue had it in a narrowe roome, whiche is thus swelled into suche a volume, and in steade of a booke of two shillings, we should haue had a pam∣flet of two pence.

And whereas you say, that you haue not alleaged these learned fathers for the authors of the Libell, but for the wyse, discrete, humble, and learned: to them also I leaue it to consider, vpon that whiche is alleaged by me. First, howe lyke a diuine it is, to seeke for rules in the Doctours, to measure the making of ceremonies by, whiche you mighte haue had in the Scriptures: there at the riuers, heere at the fountayne: vncertayne there, whiche heere are certayne, there 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉parte false, whiche are heere altogither true: then to howe little purpose they serue you, and laste of all, howe they make agaynst you.

Io. Whitgifte.

I take that whiche you graunte: bothe the first rule, whiche is, Quod ne{que} contra fi∣dem. &c. and the laste of the thrée, with what interpretation soeuer you admitte them, serue my turne very well, and fully proue my present purpose. Wherefore in graunting of them, you haue graunted as muche to me as hitherto I haue desired. Of the rules out of S. Paule, I haue spoken before: so haue I likewyse of the endes whiche the Churche must haue a respect vnto in hir decrées of orders, ceremonies, and gouernment, wherof also I shall haue occasion to speake hereafter.

The seconde of the three rules you can not at any hande allowe, but there is no cause why you should mislike it. For Augustine did giue it as a rule méete for his tyme, not for all tymes, althoughe it may serue also for all times, if his meaning be ioyned wyth it, that is, If that which is vniuersally obserued of the whole Churche, be not repugnant to the worde of God, and so it strengtheneth not one whit the Papistes pretended vniuersalitie.

In mattrrs of order, ceremonies, and gouernment, it is sufficient if they be not re∣pugnant to the scripture. Neither do I thinke any great difference to be betwixt not re∣pugnant to the worde of God, and according to the worde.

That whiche is generally obserued, and of that kinde that the rule meaneth, is* 1.195 not onely mans tradition and decree, but Gods also. M. Caluin teacheth you in his In∣stitutions, Cap. 13. Sect. 31. that suche kinde of decrees, as pertayne to order and comely∣nesse, are not onely humane, but diuine. And he bringeth in for an example knéeling at publike prayers.

S. Augustines meaning is, that he would haue no factions or contentions in the Church, or any man to trouble the peace thereof, by setting him selfe agaynst lawfull orders and customes of the same: otherwise I thinke that he neither forbiddeth to en∣quire, or reason of any such matter. But you think that Augustine was so adicted to such decrées of the Apostles, that his meaning was to haue them receyued without all exception. Surely I thinke that he was so persuaded in déede of such decrées, as he meaneth and speaketh of in that place. But for as muche as in suche rules he hath sundrie times made suche exceptions, Quod ne{que} cóntra fidem. &c. therfore this rule also is to be recey∣ued of vs, according to his meaning in all suche like rules.

God forbid that I should not take heede to those words of the Apostle, & hold him accursed which shall preache any other Gospell, than that which he had preached. For I take him that preacheth any other Gospell, to preache contrarie and repugnant doctrine to the Apo∣stle: and vndoubtedly he that teacheth any thing to be necessary to saluation, which is not comprehended in the scripture, teacheth a false doctrine, and cleane contrarie to the doctrine of the Scripture. But you do not vse this place (I am sure) agaynst any thing that is héere sayde. Our question is not of matters pertayning to saluation, but of ceremonies, of externall orders, and discipline. Whereof S. Paule speaketh nothing in that place. I make them not matters of saluation, neither are they.

I will tell you why I passed by that whych S. Augustine writeth to Ianuary, Epist. 119. and is nowe recited by you, because it nothing pertayneth to my purpose, and yet it is rather with me, than agaynst me.

But let me nowe aske you an other question, why do you not truly report S. Au∣gustines* 1.196 words, but mayme them both before, behinde, and in the middest, for Augu∣stine in the wordes that immediatly go before, sayth: That he was muche gréeued, because that many things which were more profitably commaunded in the worde of God were neglected, by reason of so many presumptuous obseruations of outwarde ceremo∣nies: the omitting whereof was more greeuously punished, than the breaking of Gods commaundements. And vpon this occasion he concludeth thus: Omnia ita{que} talia quae ne{que} sanctorum. &c. All suche ceremonies (scilicet, as be impediments to the obseruing of the commaundement of God, and are preferred before Gods commaundementes) beeing neither contayned in the holy Scriptures, nor founde decreed in the Councels of Bishops, nor cōfirmed by the custome of the whole Church, but are varied innumerably by the diuers maners of diuers Regions: so that scarcely, or neuer the causes can be found out, whiche men followed in appoynting of them: when occasion is offered I thinke they ought to he cut off without any doubt. Hitherto Augustine.

Therefore in reciting the wordes of S. Augustine in this place, first you haue omitted the wordes going before, that expresse his mynde, and declare that he mea∣neth suche ceremonies as be impedimentes to the obseruing of Gods commaunde∣mentes: for hauing spoken of suche before in manyfest wordes, he concludeth (as I haue sayde) on this sort, Omnia ita{que} talia. &c. All suche ceremonies. &c. whiche words you haue fraudulently kept backe.

Secondly, where S. Augustine speaketh of the vnreasonable multitude of ce∣remonies, vsing these wordes: innumerabiliter variantur, are varied innumera∣bly, you haue likwyse lefte out this word, innumerably, which also expresseth Au∣gustines meaning.

Laste of all you haue concealed a sentence in the middest, whiche is very ma∣teriall to the declaring of Augustine his minde. The sentence is this: Ita vt vix aut omninò nunquàm inueniri possint causae, quas in eis instituendis homines secuti sunt: So that scarcely or neuer the causes can be founde oute, whiche men followed in appoyn∣ting of them. Whereby it is playne, that he also meaneth suche ceremonies as bée appoynted without reason or cause. And yet in the latter ende he addeth: But the Churche of God beeing placed betwixte muche chaffe and darnell, dothe tollerate many thinges. &c. But I am so farre from defending the multitude, or burdensomnesse of ceremonies, that I consent in all poyntes with that saying of Augustine, where∣fore this sentence is nothing to hotte for me, but pleaseth me righte well: And it had bin more for your commendation if you had not medled withall.

They whose names I héere recite (thoughe I haue not written their wordes) yet in the places whiche I haue qnoted doe affirme as muche as I recite them for, whiche you might haue founde, if you had taken paynes to searche for the same, as I thinke verily you haue done, and founde little for your purpose, and therfore are content to passe them ouer in silence.

If I make so ofte repetitinons, I doe but as I am occasioned by them whome I answere, and as you do your selfe in this Replie, though it pleaseth you not to be ac∣knowne

of it. The sentences of Doctors and writers that I stuffe in, argue that I haue red them, and that I am not ashamed to lay them open, to the ende my playne dea∣ling may be séene, in alledging of them. But what? did you before fynde faulte with my Dumbe doctors, and can you not nowe abyde them speaking? surely I intend not to be directed by so vnconstant a guyde.

If I proue things that no man denyeth, you hadde the lesse laboure in replying: If I translate whole leaues to so small purpose, they be the sooner answered: if vpon so lighte oc∣casions, I haue made so often digressions, you will take héede (I am well assured) that you offende not in the lyke: which truly you haue forgotten in this place, for here is a digression without all reason. But I will let your reuerende and modeste speaches passe, and not recompence them with the lyke: for it neither sauoureth the spirite of God, neither yet any modest and good nature, but a stomack swelling rather against the person, than against the cause.

My purpose is not in this place to seke for rules to measure Ceremonies by, but to proue that in Ceremonies and other externall things, muche is lefte to the discretion of the Churche, whiche is not to be founde in Scriptures: and yet I know none of these rules vnméete for a diuine to search for, or to vnderstand, vnlesse it be suche a one, as contemneth all other mens learning but his owne. But how happeneth it that you haue answered nothing to the last place that I haue alleaged out of Augustine. Or why say you nothing to my conclusion, whiche is, that by all those places of this learned father, it is euident. &c.

In all this your replie you haue greatly faulted in ignorantia Elenchi, for you haue not reasoned, nor answered ad idem, but spoken altogether from the purpose.* 1.197

¶ The opinion of M. Caluin of things indifferent.

Chap. 4.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 25. Sect.. 2. 3. &. Pag. 26. 27. 28. & Pag. 29. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4.

But I trust M. Caluines iudgement will weigh something with them, who in his Institutions Cap. 13. Sect. 31. &. 32. speaking of tra∣ditions, sayth in this sort.

Bicause the Lorde hath both faithfully and plainly comprehended, and declared in the holie scriptures, the whole summe of true righteousnesse, & all the parts of the true worshipping of him, and what so euer is necessarie vnto saluation, therfore in those things he is only to be heard, as a maister, or teacher: But bicause in externall discipline & ceremonies he would not particularly prescribe, vvhat we ought to folow, bicause he foresavv that this depended vpon the state and condition of the time, neyther did iudge one form or maner to be agreable to al ages, here we must haue a respect to those general rules which he gaue, that according to thē might be examined such things, as the necessitie of the Church requireth to be cōmanded for order & decencie. Finally, bicause in these things he hath expressed nothing (for that they are neither necessarie to saluation, and may be diuersly applied to the edifying of the Church, according to the maner and custome of euery countrey and age) Therfore as the cōmoditie of the Church requireth, & as shal be thought conuenient, both the old may be abrogated & nevve ap∣pointed. I graunt that we must not rashely nor often, nor for euery lighte cause make innouations. But vvhat hurteth, and vvhat edifieth charitie wil best iudge, which if vve vvil suffer to be the moderatrix, al shalbe safe & wel. Now it is the office of Christian people vvith a free cōscience, vvithout su∣superstition,

with a godlie minde and readie and willing to obey, to obserue those things which are appointed according to this rule, not to contemne them, nor negligently to omit them, so farre off ought they to be from brea∣king them openly thorough disdaine and contumacie.

But thou wilte say, vvhat libertie of conscience can there be in so precise and straight obseruing of them? truely the libertie of conscience may well stand vvich it, if we shall consider that these lavves and decrees to the which we are bounde, be not perpetuall, or suche as are not to be abrogated: but only externall rudiments of mans infirmities: wherof notvvithstanding we all stande not in neede, yet vvee all vse them, bicause one of vs is mutually bound to an other, to nourishe loue and charitie among our selues.

This we may lerne in the examples vsed before. VVhat? doth religion cō∣sist in a womans vaile, that by no meanes she may goe abrode bare headed? or is the cōmaundement touching hir silence suche, as it may not be broken without wickednesse? or is there any mysterie in kneeling, or in burying the dead, that may not be omitted without great offence? No truly: for if such hast be required of a vvoman to help hir neighboure, that she can haue no ley sure to couer hir head, she doth not offende, though she runne out bare headed. And there is a tyme & place when and vvhere it is as mete for hir to speak, as it is elsewhere to hold hir peace. Him also to pray standing, which being letted vvith some disease, can not kneele, there is nothing forbiddeth. To be short, it is better in tyme to burie the dead, than to tarie for a winding sheete, or some to carie him, vntil he stinke aboue the ground. But there is somewhat euen in thosethings, vvhich the custome of Religion, lavves, and decrees, humanitie it self, and the rule of modestie willeth vs to do, & to take heed of, wherin if we shal through ignorāce & forgetfulnes offēd, ther is no sin cōmitted: But if through cōtempt or contumacie, it is to be reproued. In like maner it skilleth not what days be appointed, what houres, what maner of places touching the building, what Psalms are to be song this day or that day: And yet there must certain dayes be appointed, & certain houres, and a place mete to receiue al, if we haue any respect to keepe vnitie & peace. For what cōfusion were it, & of how great cōtentions & braulings the seed, and cause, if euery man as he listeth, might alter and chaunge those things which pertein to the cōmon state: Seing that it would neuer be broughte to passe, that one thing could please all men, if such matters were left indifferent, and cōmitted to euery mans arbitrement? Now if any man repine or grudge, & vvill here seme wiser than it behoueth him, let him cōsider by what reason he can excuse his waywardnesse in the Lorde. Notvvithstanding that say∣ing of S. Paule must ••atisfie vs: we haue no custome to contend, neither the* 1.198 Churches of God. Thus farre Caluine.

In whiche wordes we haue these things to consider: Firste that* 1.199 God hath in the Scripture fully and plainly comprehended all those things that be necessarie to saluation.

Secondly, that in Ceremonies and externall discipline, he hath not in Scripture particularly determined any thing, but lefte the same to his Churche, to make or abrogate, to alter, or continue, to adde, or take away, as shall bee thoughte from tyme to tyme, moste conueniente, for the presente state of the Churche, so that nothyng be doone, agayust that generall rule of Sainct Paule. 1. Corin. 14.

Let all things be done decently and in order.

Thirdly, that it is the dutie of a Christian man without supersti∣tion willingly to obey such constitutions, not to contemne them, not to neglect them, muche lesse stubbornely and arrogantly to breake them.

Fourthly, that the obseruing of them taketh not libertie from the couscience, bicause they be not made to be perpetual and inuiolable, but to be altered, as tyme, occasion and necessitie requireth.

Fifthly, that all ought to obey suche ordinances, for charitie sake, though all stande not in neede of them.

Sixthly, that if a man doe violate them by ignorance or forget∣fulnesse, he doth not offende, if by contempt or stubbornesse he doth greately offende.

Seuenthly, that confusion (whiche is to suffer euery man to doe what he list) is the seede of contention and brawling.

Last of all, that the true ministers of God be not contentious, neither yet the Churches of God.

These things among other I thought good to note oute of M. Caluines wordes, whiche if they were diligentely considered, suche contentions might soone be ended.

T. C. Pag. 19. Sect. 2. 3. 4. 5. &. Pag. 20. Sect. 1.

Why should you trust that M. Caluins iudgemēt wil weigh with them, if they be Anabaptists (as you accuse them) if they be Donatistes, if Catharists, if conspired with the Papistes, how can you thinke y^t they wil so easily rest in M. Caluines iudgemēt, which hated and confuted all Anabap∣tisme, Donatisme, Catharisme, & Papisme? but it is true which the prouerb sayth, memorē. &c. he y^t wil speake an vntruth, had need haue a good memorie: & this is the force of the truth, in the consci∣ence of man, that although he suppresse it, & pretend the contrary, yet at vnwares it stealeth out. For what greater testimonie could you haue giuen of them, that they hate a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 those heresies, whiche you lay to their charge, than to say, y^t you trust M. Caluins iudgement wil weigh 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 thē? Now in deed that you be not deceiued, we receiue M. Caluin, & weigh of him, as of the notablest instrumēt y^t the Lord hath stirred vp, for y^e purging of his Churches, & of the restoring of the plaine & sincere inter∣pretation of the scriptures, which hath ben since the Apostles times. And yet we do not so read his works, y^e we beleue any thing to be true, bicause he saith it, but so far as we cā esteme, that y^e which he saith, doth agree with the canonicall scriptures. But what gather you out of M. Caluine?

First that all necessarie things to saluation, are conteined in the scripture: who denyeth it?

In the second collection, where you wold giue to vnderstand y^e ceremonies & externall discipline are not prescribed particularly by the word of God, & therfore left to the order of the Churche: you must vnderstād, that al external discipline is not left to the order of y^e Church, being particularly pr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 scribed in y^e scriptures, no more than (a) 1.200 al ceremonies are left to the order of y^e Church, as the sacra ments of Baptisin, & the supper o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the Lord: whereas, vpon the indefinite speaking of M. Caluine, saying Ceremonies & externall discipline, without adding all, or some, you go about (b) 1.201 subtilly to make mē beleue y^t Caluin had placed the whole external discipline in y^e power & arbitrement of the Church. For i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 al external discipline were arbitrarie, & in the choise of the Church, excōmunication also (which is a part of it) might be cast away, which I think you wil not say. But if y^t M. Caluine were aliue to heare his sentēces (c) 1.202 racked and writhen, to establish those things, which he stroue so mightily to ouerthrowe, and to ouerthrow those things that he laboured so sore to establishe, what might he saye? & the iniurie whyche is done to him is nothyng lesse bycause he is dead.

Concerning all the rest of your collections, I haue not lightly knowne a man, whiche ta〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eth so much paine w^t so small gain, & which soweth his seed in the sea, wherof ther wil neuer rise encrease. For I know none that euer deined those things, vnlesse peraduenture you would make the reader beleeue, y^e a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 those be contētious, which moue any controuersie of things which they iudge to be a∣misse, & then it is answered before, & now I answere further, that they that moue to reformation of things, are no more to be blamed as authors of contētion, than the Physitiō, which giueth a purga∣tiō, is to be blamed for the rumbling & stirre in y^e beliy, & other disquietnesse of y^e body, which should not haue be 〈◊〉〈◊〉 y^e 〈◊〉〈◊〉 humors & naughty disposition of it, had not caused or procured this purgation.

Wheras you conclude, that these contētions would be spon ended, if M Caluins words were no∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed, here we wil ioyn with you, & wil not refuse y^e (d) 1.203 iudgemēt of M. Caluin in any matter that we haue in controuers〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e with you, which I speake not therfore, bicause I woulde call the decision of controuersies to men and theyr words (whych pertayn only to God and to his word) but bicause I know his iudgement in these, thyngs to be cleane against you, and especially for that you would beate men in hand, that M. Caluin is on your syde, and agaynst vs.

Io. Whitgifte.

If you your selfe will of necessitie inforce these qualities and conditions of Ana∣baptistes (whiche I in the beginning rehersed) vpon the authors of the admonition, who can let you? The moste that I haue sayde, is that I suspecte them, bycause they so agree with them in certaine qualities and practices. But if they were bent that waye, yet doth it not folow that they woulde by and by séeme to con∣temne M. Caluines or any other famous and learned mannes iudgemente. For you knowe that the chiefe captaines of the Anabaptistes, did not forthwith vtter eyther al their contempt of learned men, or all their pestiferous opinions at the fyrst, but vsed therin some policie, suche as might most preuayle to winne credite vnto theyr faction. You remember that Zuinglius in his booke called Ecclesiast. sayth of the Ana∣baptists,* 1.204 that though they protested, and by othe denyed that they ment to take any au∣thoritie from the magistrate, yet shortly after it would appeare, that they would haue bin disobedient to all lawes of Magistrates. &c. as I haue before rehersed: the practise wher∣of is to be séene in Sleidan and other stories.

And although in the beginning it was pretended that the contention was but in matters of no great importance, as cap, surplesse, tippet. &c. yet in the additions to the first admonition fol. 9. it is protested, that the strife is for greater matters, as for a true ministerie, and gouernmente of the Churche, and nowe you say, that certain matters* 1.205 whiche be in controuersie, are matters of lyfe and death, of saluation and damnation. fol. 5. & 14. Besides all thys the additions that you make to the protestation of your obediēcs to the ciuile Magistrate fol. 6. &c. is verie suspicious, so is your doctrine touching the authoritie of the ciuill magistrate also, as I haue in an other place declared. Wher∣fore how farre both they and you will as yet procéede, is not certainly knowne. In the meane tyme, if by allowing suche as M. Caluine is, some credite were not main∣tained, wise and learned men would the sooner espie their dooings.

When I say, that I trust M. Caluines iudgemente will weigh some thing with them. I speake it but in comparison, to the authoritie of suche as I haue before alleaged. For I know they make small acc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉mpt of any author that wri∣teth against them, but least of all of the olde auncient fathers, whom some of them are not ashamed to call pillorie Doctours. They may therfore beare a countenance to suche as hate and confute Anabaptisme, Papisme. &c. and yet both ioyne with the Papists and the Anabaptists &c. in disturbing the Churche.

As the woordes of M. Caluine be directely to my purpose, and my collections truly gathered out of them, so is your answere thervnto verie weake, and in déed nothing. The woordes of M. Caluine wher vpon my seconde collection is gathered, be these: But bicause in externall discipline and ceremonies he woulde not particularly prescribe what we ought to followe, bycause he foresaw that this depended vpon the state and con∣dition of the tyme, neyther did iudge one forme or maner to be agreeable to all ages: Here we must haue respect. &c. Conferre these woordes with my collection, and you shall sée them agrée in all poyntes. And surely M. Caluine sayeth that fully and plainely in this place, whiche I haue taken in hande to proue. M. Caluine neyther addeth all, nor some, and therfore neyther haue I added them, least I mighte séeme to be a corrup∣ter of his woordes.

Your obiection of the Supper of the Lorde, and of Baptisme, is altogether friuolous: for they be substantiall Ceremonies: and not ceremonies onely, but Sacramentes also, and therfore must haue of necessitie an expresse commaundement in the worde of God.

Touching excōmunication, I shal speake hereafter, it is the matter that the Anabap∣tists so greatly vrged, and for the not vsing of the whiche, they separated themselues from the Churches, where the Gospell was preached, as appeareth in the bookes bothe of Caluine, Bullinger, and others, against them. I knowe that touchyng Excommunication, whether the vse of it bée at all 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ymes so necessarye or no,

that it maye not bée altered, learned men doe varie in iudgementes, whose opini∣ons in that matter I will deferre, vntill I come where I haue farther occasion to speake of it.

If M. Caluine were alyue, and vnderstode the state of our Churche and controuersie truly, I verily beléeue that he would vtterly condemne your doings: and I am the rather induced to thinke so, bicause I vnderstande him to haue allowed many things in the Englishe Church being at Geneua, which you altogither misselyke, as Funeral sermons. &c. And therfore he would not thinke his wordes racked one whit, to esta∣blishe any thing that he would haue had ouerthrowne.

The rest of my collections are most agréeable to M Caluines woords, moste necessary for this present time, and moste apte for my purpose: and youre passing them ouer so slightly, doth argue your lacke of abilitie to answere them. In deede they flatly de∣termine this controuersie, and in effect ouerthrowe your whole booke.

Those that make contention in the Churche for suche matters as you doe, and in suche sorte and maner, can not auoyde the iuste accusations of being contentious per∣sons: and if the Physition giueth a purgation where there is no néede, or a more ve∣hement purgation than is conuenient for the disease, or minister it out of time, or giue one purgation for an other. &c. what rumbling and stirre soeuer follow in the bodye, he may be iustly sayde to be the author and cause of them. Do you not knowe what Zuinglius sayeth in his Ecclesiast. speaking of Anabaptistes: If they were sente of God,* 1.206 and endued with the spirite of loue, they would haue construed in the beste parte, those externall things. &c. And againe, Christe neuer made any contention for externall thin∣ges, and in his booke de Baptismo, They go aboute innouations of their owne priuate au∣thoritie. &c.

I vse M. Caluines iudgement, as I vse the iudgement of other learned men, ney∣ther will I refuse any learned mans opinion in these controuersies, that truly and wholly vnderstandeth the state of this Church, and the grounde of all thinges vsed in it. But I doubt how you will hereafter stand to this offer.

¶ The opinion of Bucer of things in∣different.

Chap. 5.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag 29. Sect. 5. &. 6.

Of the same iudgement in this matter is M. Bucer, as it appea∣reth* 1.207 in his Epistle to M. Alasco, these be his wordes: If you vvill not admit such libertie, and vse of vesture to this pure and holie Church, by∣cause they haue no commaundement of the Lord, nor example of it: I doo not see hovv you can graunt to any Church, that it may celebrate the Lor∣des Supper in the morning, and in an open Churche, especially consecra∣ted to the Lorde: that the Sacrament may be distributed to men kneeling or standing, yea to vvomen as vvell as to men. For vvee haue receiued of these things neither commaundement of the Lorde, nor any example, yea rather the Lorde gaue a contrarie example. For in the euening, and in a priuate house he did make his Supper, and distributed the Sacramentes, and that to men only, and sitting at the table. Haec Bucerus.

But to ende this matter, is it not as lawfull for a godlie Prince, with the aduise and consent of godlie and lerned Bishops, and other of the wysest, to make orders in the Church, and lawes Ecclesiasti∣call, as it is for euery priuate man, to vse what maner and forme of seruice he list, and other order aud discipline in his own parish, which these men seeke and striue to doe.

T. C. Page. 20. Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. &. Pag. 21. Sect. 1.

And as for Peter Martyr and Bucer, and Musculus, and Bullinger, Gualter, and He∣mingius, and the rest of the late writers, by citing of whome, you woulde gyue to vnder∣stande, that they are agaynste vs in these matters, there is set downe in the latter ende of this booke, their seuerall iudgements, of the moste of these thinges whiche are in controuer∣sie: whereby it maye appeare, that if they haue spoken one woorde agaynste vs, they haue* 1.208 spoken two for vs. And whereas they haue written (as it is said) and alieadged in their priuate letters to their friends, agaynst some of these causes, it may appeare, that they haue in their works published to the whole world, that they confirme the same causes. So that if they wrote any such things, they shall be found not so much to haue dissented from vs, as from themselues: and there∣fore we appeale from themselues, vnto themselues: and from their priuate notes and letters to their publike writings, as more autenticall. You laboure still in the fire that is vnprofitable, to bring M. Bucer his Epistle to proue, that the Church may order thinges, whereof there is no particular and expressed commaundement, for there is none denieth it, neyther is this saying, that all things are to be done in the Church according to the rule of the word of God, any thing repug∣nant vnto this, that the Church may ordeyne certayne things, according to the word of God.

But if this Epistle, and others of M. Bucers with his notes vpon the booke of common prayer, which are so often cited, and certaine Epistles of M. Peter Martyr were neuer printed (as (1) 1.209 I cannot vnderstand they were) then besides that you do vs iniury, which go about to preiudice our cause by the testimonies of them, whiche we can neyther heare nor see, being kepte close in your study: you also do your cause much more iniurie, whilest you betray the pouertie and nakednesse of it, being fame to ransacke, and ruffle vp euery darke corner, to find something to co∣uer it with.

Therefore it were good before you tooke any benefyte of them, to let them come foorthe, and speake their owne testimonies, in their owne language and full out. For now you giue men occa∣sion to thinke, that there are some other thinges in their Epistles whiche you would be loth the world should know, for feare of fall of that, which you would gladly keepe.

There is (2) 1.210 no man that sayth that it ought to be permitted to euery person in the Churche where he is minister, to haue such order or discipline, or to vse such seruice, as he listeth, no man see∣keth for it. But to haue the order which God hathe left in those things which the word precisely appoynteth, and in other things to vse that, which shall be according to the rules of S. Paule be∣fore recited, agreed by the Church, aud confirmed by the prince.

And wheras you haue euer hitherto giuen the ordering of these things to the Church, how come you now to (3) 1.211 ascribe it to the Byshops? you meane I am sure the Byshops, as we call Byshops here in England, whereby you fall into the opinion of the Papists vnawares, whiche when they haue spoken many things of the Churche inagnifically, at the last they bring it now to the doctours of the Church, now to Byshops.

As for me, although I doubt not but there be many good men of the Byshops, and very lear∣ned also, and therefore very meete to be admitted into that consultation, whereinit shall be conside∣red, what things are good in the Church: yet in respect of that office and calling of a Byshop, which they now exercise, I thinke that euery godly learned minister and pastour of the Churche, hath more interest and righte, in respect of his office, to be at that consultation: then any Byshop or Archbishop in the Realme, for as much as he hath an ordinarie calling of God, and function ap∣poynted in the scriptures which he exerciseth, and the other hath not.

But how this authoritie perteyning to the whole Church, of making of such orders, may and ought to be called to a certayne number, that confusion may be auoyded, and with the consent also of the Churches to auoyde tyrannie, it shall appeare in a more proper place where we shall haue occasion to speake of the eldership or gouernment in euery Church, and of the communion and so∣cietie or participation, & intercommuning of the Churches togyther, by councels, and assemblies prouinciall or nationall.

Io. Whitgifte.

Diuers of those learned men here named, being rightly enformed of the state of* 1.212 this controuersie, with all the circumstances perteyning therevnto, haue set downe their opinions in writing, and therefore if it should so come to passe, (which as yet is not proued, neyther as I thinke will be) that in their publike writings, they should séeme to affirme any thing contrary to their priuate letters, it is bycause they spea∣king generally of all, and hauing respect to the time and place, wherein and when such things were abused, haue generally spoken of them otherwise then they do, as they be now vsed in this Church of England. And surely in my opinion these their epistles, wherein of purpose (being required) they gyue their sentence of suche matters, oughte to be more credited, than their generall writings, wherein they maye séeme otherwise to speake vppon other occasions. But I thinke that in the ende it will fall out, that they haue written nothyng publikely againste any thing that is written by them priuately: and of some of them I am sure that their publike and priuate writings of these matters doe fully agrée. But where

haue you learned to answere on this sorte to the authoritie of learned men? to ac∣cuse them of contrarietie before you haue manifestly proued it, is to doe vnto them great iniurie.

The place of M. Bucer maketh directly for my purpose, and therefore in giuyng place vnto it, you graunte as muche as I hitherto haue required. For M. Bucer vsed the example of apparell whiche is one thing in controuersie betwixte vs, and sayeth playnly, that the Church hath authoritie to appoint such things, as haue neyther cō∣maundement nor example in the Scripture.

These Epistles of M. Bucer, and of M. Martyr, with the Epistles of other learned men be printed and published wholly and fully, and it can not bée that the same should be vnknown vnto you, the bookes being so cōmon: your pleading of ignorance in this thing is but a colour.

When euery Minister must be chiefe of the seigniorie, and haue with some o∣ther of the parishe the whole authoritie Ecclesiasticall: when they must not bee so* 1.213 tyed to any forme of prayers, but as the spirite moueth them, so to poure out supplications: when the Prince is secluded from authoritie in appoynting of ceremonies, and or∣ders of discipline, that is, when in Ecclesiasticall matters you giue to the Ciuill ma∣gistrate no more than the Papistes do, to wit potestatem facti, and not potestatem iuris, as will afterwardes more plainly appeare: what is it else but for euery minister to be Pope in his owne parishe, and to vse suche order, discipline, and seruice as he himselfe listeth.

If you had bin disposed to speake the truthe, and to report my wordes as they be written, you woulde haue eased your booke of these lynes whiche followe. For where doe I giue this authoritie to the Bishops? or in what words do I restrayne the Churche to them? my wordes be these: Is it not as lawfull for a godly Prince, with the aduise and consente of godlie and learned Bishops, and other of the wysest, to make orders in the Church. &c. You sée that I ioyne the Prince, the Bishops, and other of the wisest together in making of or∣ders. &c. and whensoeuer I meane the Churche in suche a case, I meane not the con∣fused multitude of the Church, but suche as God hath called to gouerne his Church in the externall gouernment: whome I take to be in this Churche, the Prince, the Bishops, the Councell, and suche other, as by the order of this Churche, haue to do in suche like matters.

Your falsifying hurteth not me, but discrediteth your selfe, and your cause.

The Bishops haue muche to thanke you, that it would please you to admitte them into that consultation of yours, if they woulde giue ouer that office and callyng. But (thanks be vnto God) you haue as yet no suche authoritie committed vnto you. Wherfore this and suche lyke kynde of speaches, doe but declare howe magnifically you thynke of your selfe. &c.

If it pertayne to the whole Churche, that is (as I thinke you vnderstande it) to the whole multitude of the Churche, to make suche orders, howe can you restraine it to a certaine number? or why not as well to some one, if the multitude thynke it so con∣uenient, but of this matter, when you come to youre seigniorie and kinde of go∣uernment.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 30. Sect. 1.

An examination of the places. &c.

TO proue that nothing in this mortall lyfe is more diligently to be sought for, and carefully to be looked vnto than the restituti∣on of true Religion, and reformation of Gods Churche, there is no∣ted. 2. Reg. 23. 2. Chro. 17. 2. Chro. 29. 30. 31. Psalm.. 132 Math 21. Ioh. 2. In the firste place it is declared howe Iosiah after he had founde the

booke of the lawe, reformed the Churche. In the seconde place Ie∣hosaphat tooke away the high places and groues out of Iuda &c. In the 29. 30. 31. of the. 2. Chron. is described the doings of Ezechias, in repairing the temple and reforming religion. &c. In the. 132. Psalme it is declared with what care Dauid went about to build the tem∣ple of God, after that he was once established in his kingdome. In the. 12. of Math. Iesus went into the temple, and cast out all them that bought and sold in the temple. &c. The like he did in the seconde of Iohn. All this is confessed to be true and no man denieth it. And I pray God make vs thankfull for the Queenes maiestie, who hathe not bin slacke in this point, but hath like a vertuous, religious, and godly prince, in the very entring into hir raigne, notwithstanding the multitude of hir aduersaries, bothe at home and abrode, aboli∣shed all superstition, and restored the simplicitie of the Gospell. But these men alleadge these places to the discredite of this reformati∣on, and of the whole gouernmente of this Churche. How aptly and how truly, let godly, wise, and learned meniudge.

Io. Whitgifte.

All this is passed ouer with silence, and nothing said vnto it, good or bad.

The exposition of the places. Deu. 4. &. 12. quoted by the Admonition.

Cap. 6. The first Diuision.

Ansvver to the Admonition. Pag. 30. Sect. 2.

TO proue that these things only are to be placed in gods Church,* 1.214 whiche God himselfe in his word commaundeth, is noted the fourth and the twelfth of Deut. Ye shall put nothing to thevvord that I commaund you, neither shall you take any thing therefrom. &c. And in the other place: VVhatsoeuer I cōmaund you take heed you do it, thou shalt put nothing thereto, nor take ought therefrom. God in the old law to his people, prescribed perfect and absolute lawes, not only morall and iudiciall, but ceremoniall also: neither was there the lest thing to be done in the Church omitted in the law. And therefore for them at that time, and during that state, it was not lawfull to adde any thing, nor to take any thing away no not in ceremonies and other ciuill lawes: now in the time of the Gospell God hath left vnto his Church expressed in his word a perfect rule of faith and manners, and sufficient to saluation, and cursed is he that shal adde any thing to it, or take any thing from it in that behalfe, for therein it is per∣fec te and absolute. But as he hath lefte the iudiciall lawe to the dis∣cretion of the magistrate, to adde there vnto or take therefrom, or al∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er and change the same, so that no law be made against the rule of faith and good manners expressed in the word of God. &c.

T. C. Page. 21. Sect 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉2.

Unto the places of Deuteronome, which proue that nothing ought to be done in the Church, but that which God commaundeth, and that nothing should be added or diminished. First you an∣swere that that was a precepte giuen to the Iewes for that time, whiche had all thinges euen the

least prescribed vnto them. I see it is true which is said, that one absurditie graunted, a hundred follow. For to (a) 1.215 make good, that things ought to be done besides the scripture and word of God, you are driuen to runne into part of the errour of the Manichees, which say, that the old testament perteyneth not vnto vs, nor bindeth not vs. For what is it else, than to say that these two places serued for the Iewes time, and vnder the law? for surely if these two places agree not vnto vs in tune of the Gospell, I knowe none in all the old testament, whiche do agree. And I praye you what is here saide which S. Iohn in the Apocalipse saith not, where he shutteth vp the new testa∣ment on this sort: I protest vnto euery man which heareth the prophecie of this booke, that who∣soeuer* 1.216 addeth any thing to it, the Lord shall adde vnto him the plagues whiche are written in it: And whosoeuer taketh away any thing from it, the Lorde shall take away his portion out of the booke of life, and out of the things that are written in it? whiche admonition if you say perteyneth to that booke of the Apocalipse only, yet you must remember that the same may be as truly said of any other booke of the scripture.

Io. Whitgifte.

My first answer to that place of Deuteronomie is true, neyther can you disproue* 1.217 it by any sound reason or good authoritie: for if you will haue this precept now to be vnderstanded of all the selfesame ordinances, and lawes, of the whiche, and for the which, it was at that time giuen, then must we of necessitie kéepe the ceremoniall and iudiciall precepts of the Law being at that time in force. The which thing as I suppose, no learned man will once imagine, but yet as this precepte was then gyuen to them, that they should adde nothing to the lawes of God then in force, or take any thing from them, so is it perpetuall for vs also, that we shoulde adde nothing to the law of faith and manners, which is likewise perfectly prescribed vnto vs in the booke of God.

And thus you sée how farre I am from the erroure of the Manichees, and from thin∣king that the old testament doth not apperteine vnto vs: and yet I am not so Iewish, to* 1.218 thinke that we are bound either to the ceremoniall or iudiciall law: and therefore I say that that precepte applyed vnto vs, dothe not extende any further, than to suche thinges as God hathe commauuded or forbidden vs that be Christians to do in hys word. How vniustly therefore you charge me to say, that these two places agree not vnto vs vnder the Gospell, when as I haue plainly declared how they agrée to them vnder the law, and to vs vnder the Gospell, let any man iudge.

The words in the last of the Apocal. although they be properly and namely spo∣ken of that booke, yet I am fully perswaded that they may also be affirmed of the whole testament. And I am so farre from allowing either addition or detraction, to, or from the word of God, that I vtterly cōdemne as false that which you haue setdown before in your booke Fol. 13. That many things are both commaunded and forbidden, of which there is no expresse mention in the worde, which are as necessarily to be followed or auoyded, as* 1.219 those whereof expresse mention is made.

Chap. 6. the second Diuision.

T. C. Page. 21. Sect. 3.

Then you are driuen to say, that the Iewes vnder the law, had a more certaine direction, and consequently a readier w〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y, than we haue in the time of the Gospell, of the whiche time the Pro∣phet* 1.220 saith, that then a man should not teach his neighboure, they shall be so taught of God: as if he should say, that they that liue vnder the Gospell, should be all, in comparison of that whiche were vnder the lawe doctours. And Esay saith, that in the days of the Gospell, the people shall not stand* 1.221 in the outward courts, but he will bring them into the sanctuarie, that is to say, that they should be all, for their knowledge as learned as the Leuites and priests, which only had entrance into it.

Io. Whitgifte.

In matters of ceremonies and iudicials they had moe particular rules prescribed* 1.222 vnto them, and a more certaine direction. For we haue very litle in these matters par∣ticularly written in the new testament: but the morall lawe we haue as perfect as they had, and in the law of faith, which is the law of the Gospell and the rule of salua∣tion, we do farre exceede them. Other meaning than this there cannot (with all the violence that you haue) be wrong out of my words.

Your places alleadged out of the Prophete Ieremy and Esay improue nothing that I haue spoken, for the Prophet Ieremy speaketh of the elect of God, whome he* 1.223 doth teach and illuminate not only with the outward preaching of his word, but by the maruellous operation of his spirit also. The words of the Prophet Esay (if you* 1.224 meane the 7. ver. of the. 56. Chap. for else ther is no such words there) do signify that God will gather the Gentiles and straungers into his Church, and make no distinc∣tion betwixt them and the Iewes in the time of the Gospell: but how you shoulde gather of that place that the people should be as learned as the Priests and Leuites, I can∣not coniecture. Neither truly do I know to what purpose this texte is alleadged, ex∣cept it be alittle by the way, to flatter the people and to claw them.

Chap. 6. the. 3. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 21. Sect. 4. 5.

Now if the Iewes had precepts of euery the least action, which told them precisely how they should walke: how is not their case in that poynt better than ours, which bycause we haue in many things but generall rules, are to seeke often times, what is the will of God which we should fol∣lowe? But let vs examine their lawes, and compare them with ours in the matters perteyning to the Church: for whereas the question is of the gouernmente of the Churche, it is very imperti∣nent, that you speake of the iudicialls, as though you had not yet learned, to distinguish betweene the Church and common welth.

To the ordering and gouerning of the Church, they had only the morall, and ceremoniall lawe: we haue the same morall that they had: what speciall direction therefore they inioy by the bene∣fyte of that, we haue.

Io. Whitgifte.

The Iewes as it is confessed by learned men, had their lawes more particularly* 1.225 prescribed vnto them, and especially touching Ceremonies, not onely bycause they were prone to Idolatrie, but also oftentimes in subiection to Idolatrous princes, where they had occasion offered vnto them to worship their false Gods. Therefore a learned interpreter saith, Fateor in multis ceremonijs diuinitùs mandatis fuisse occupatos, ne a∣lias appeterent. I confesse that they were occupied in many ceremonies commaunded of* 1.226 God, least they should desire other. This then was one, though not the only cause of their ceremoniall lawes: and in this respecte their case was not better, but indéede much more seruile and worse than ours, who are deliuered from that yoke of cere∣monies, and bound only to two, as Aug. Epist. 118. ad Ianuar. saithe most easily to be ob∣serued,* 1.227 and most excellent in signification, that is, the supper of the Lord and Baptisme. So that you are much deceiued if you thinke vs to be in worse case, than they were, by∣cause we haue not so many particular rules for ceremonies, as they had: for we are deliuered from the bondage of Ceremonies, as the Apostle declareth to the Galat. 5.* 1.228 and therefore M. Caluine in his booke against the Anabap. answering this reason of theirs (There is more perfection required in the Church of Christ, than there was among* 1.229 the Iewes, and therefore Christians may not vse the sword or be magistrates) saith on thys sort. Hoc quidem verum est, quod ad Ceremonias attinet. This is true as touching ceremonies, meaning that we are not now bound to so many lawes of ceremonies, but haue frée∣dome and libertie therein. I speake of accidentall ceremonies as well as of Sacra∣mentes.

You say that whereas the question is of the gouernment of the Church. &c. wherein anti∣quum obtines. For our present question is whither all things to be vsed in the Church are prescribed in the scripture? And that which I speake of the iudiciall lawe I speake it by occasion of the interpretation of these places of Deuteronomie. How∣beit I sée no such distance betwixt the Church and the common wealth, but the lawes of the one doth and oughte to perteine to the other, excepte you will do as the Papistes did, that is, seclude the ciuill magistrate altogither from medling in any ecclesiasti∣call

matter. And I am well assured that not onely the ceremoniall and morall lawe but the iudiciall also perteyned to the gouernmente of the Churche of the* 1.230 Israelites, and that these preceptes of not adding too or taking from, perteyned to that lawe also. M. Musculus in his common places. Cap. de legibus, de∣uideth the iudiciall lawe into two partes, into ecclesiasticall and ciuill: his wordes be these. VVherefore these preceptes may not vnfitly (he meaneth, iudiciall) be deui∣ded* 1.231 into two kyndes, whereof some are ecclesiasticall and other ciuill. M. Beza in lyke* 1.232 manner in his booke de haereticis a magist: puniend. saith, that the iudiciall law doth part∣ly consist in the externall manner of worshipping God, partly in the ciuill affaires of this lyfe. And M. Caluine. in his Harmo: vpon the fyue bookes of Moses, expounding this* 1.233 verse in the. 23. of Exod. Thou shalt vtterly ouerthrow them and breake in peeces their images. Calleth it a politike lawe, and yet notwithstanding an apendix to the firste precepte, and added to confirme that which he had spoken before against Idolatrie. Therefore to the ordering and gouerning of the Churche, the Iewes had not only the morall and ceremoniall, but the iudiciall law also.

Chap. 6. the fourth Diuision.

T. C. Page. 21. Sect. vlt.

We haue no ceremonies but two, the ceremonies or sacramentes of Baptisme, and of the Lords supper, and we haue as certayne a direction, to celebrate them, as they had to celebrate their ceremonies, and fewer and lesse difficulties can rise of ours, than of theirs: and we haue more playne and expresse doctrine to decide our controuersies than they had for theirs. What houre had they for their ordinarie and dayly sacrifices? was it not left to the order of the Church? what places were appoynted in their seuerall dwellings to heare the worde of God preached continu∣ally, when they came not to Ierusalem? the word was commaunded to be preached, but no men∣tion made, what manner of place they should haue: where was pulpits commaunded or chaires? and yet they had both. Where any forme of buriall in the law? and yet it is a thing perteyning to the Chnrch, that the dead be after a comely sort buried: where, any order or forme of mariage? and yet it is knowne, they had. It was (which is more) in the discretion of that Church, vpon occa∣sion of dearth, or warre, plagues, or any other common calamitie, to proclayme a fast.

Io. Whitgifte.

We haue no ceremonies which he sacraments, but two, and in them, and for al things* 1.234 perteyning to their substance, we haue as certeyne direction as they had for any of theyr sacraments. But yet is not euery circumstance to be vsed about the celebrating of them, so particularly, nor so certainely prescribed vnto vs, as was to them in theyr ceremonies, sacramentes, and sacrifices: for they had euery particular circumstance to be vsed about their sacrifices, sacramentes and ceremonies set downe vnto them, as it is euident Exod. 12. 25. 26. &c. and in Leuiticus. We are not bound to any suche prescript forme of outward ceremonies and circumstances, but haue frée libertie, not only to appoynte, but also to alter and chaunge the same, as shall be thoughte most conuenient: so that nothing be done against the word of God, and that the ge∣nerall* 1.235 rule be obserued. 1. Cor. 14. that all things be done decently and in order. All thys therefore that you speake of houre, place, and of the forme of buriall, and of mariage. &c. in∣firmeth nothing that I haue sayd, for these be circumstances not vsed in the seruice of God, but in other actions: and I speake of suche ceremonies and circumstances, as are vsed in the Church, about the seruice and worshipping of God, whiche were to the Iewes particularly prescribed (as appeareth in the places before alleadged) but be not so to vs.

Chapter. 6. the. 5. Diuision.

T. C. Page. 22. Sect. 1. 2.

I will not be long, whereas you say, that they had nothing but was determined by the law: and

we haue many things vndetermined and left to the order of the Church. I will offer for one that you shall bring that we haue left to the order of the Churche, to shewe you that they had twentie,* 1.236 which were vndecided of, by the expresse word of God. For as their ceremonies and Sacraments are multiplied aboue ours, so grew the number of those cases, which were not determined by any expresse word, and therefore I will conclude(a) 1.237 that for somuch as we haue the same 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to di∣rect vs in the seruice of God, which they had, besides that, a noble addition of the new testament, to make things more manif〈1 line〉〈1 line〉st, and to bring greater light vnto the old testament, we haue also precise direction of our religion as they had, and therefore those places of Deut. stande in as greate force now touching the gouernmente of the Church, as they did then.

And as for the iudiciall law, for as muche as there are some of them made in regard of the re∣gion where they were giuen, and of the people to whome they were giuen, the Prince and Magi∣strate keeping the substance and equitie of them (as it were the marrow) may chaunge the circum∣stances of them, as the times and places, and manners of the people shall require. But to say that any magistrate can saue the life of blasphemers, conteniptuous and stubborne Idol〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ters, murde∣rers, adulterers, incestuous persons, and such like, which God by his iudiciall law hath commaun∣ded to be put to death, I do vtterly deni〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, and am ready to proue, if that perteyned to this questi∣on. And therefore although the iudiciall lawes are permitted to the discretion of the Prince and Magistrate, yet not so generally, as you seeme to affirme, and as I haue often times said, that not only it must not be done, against the word, but according to the word, and by it.

Io. Whitgifte.

Surely if you can shew me twenty things to be done of them, in the seruice of God or discipline of the Church, left to the order of the Church, and vndetermined in the law, for one that I can shew left to the order of our Church, you can do more than any man that I know, hath either spoken or written. Musculus Lo. co. after that he hath made a parti∣cular* 1.238 recitall of the ceremoniall lawes, saithe that God did therefore appoint vnto thē such a number of Ceremonies, bicause they should not inuēt any other, seing they had Ceremonies inow wherby they might be exercised, and as it were by a certain kind of schooling might be instructed in the spirituall sense. To our discretion is left as I haue said, the most of the circumstances perteyning to both the sacraments, most of all ex∣ternall rites, ceremonies, and other things that perteyne to comelinesse and order yea and the disposition of many things also which apperteine to the externall disci∣pline, and gouernmente of the Church: which are to be varied according to time, per∣sons, and place, as shall hereafter be proued. If you be able to shewe that the same libertie was lefte vnto them, in so many thinges you shall do more than I can conceyue.

But admttte all this to be true, that you say, there can be nothing spoken more di∣rectly* 1.239 for the iustifying of my cause. For if the Israelites notwithstanding these pla∣ces of Deutero. had libertie to order things in the Church not comaunded or prescri∣bed vnto them in the word of God, then do the Authours of the Admonition vnaptly vse these places of Deuteronomie: to proue that those things only are to be vsed and pla∣ced in the Church, which God himselfe in his word hath commaunded. For if the Iewes (not∣withstanding these precepts) did lawfully vse those things that were not in the word commaunded, withoute adding to the word, or taking from it, surely we may do so in like manner. And thus haue you taken muche paynes in iustifying that cause, which y〈1 line〉〈1 line〉u would so gladly ouerthrow.

Wher you say, that we haue the same lawes to direct vs in the seruice of God, that they had,* 1.240 if you meane the same morall lawes you say truly, but nothing to the purpose: if you meane the same ceremoniall lawes (which properly are said to be lawes directing them in the seruice of God) then do you Iudaizare play the Iew. And certainely I maruell what you meane by this saying, séeing that you knowe our externall manner and kind of worshipping of God to be farre distante from theirs: and our sacramentes (though spiritually the same) yet both in number, forme, matter, obseruation, and kind of signification, much differing from them, and especially seing that their cere∣moniall law is vtterly abolished. Neyther do I well vnderstand what your meaning is when you adde, Besides that a noble addition of the newe testamente, to make things more manifest, and to bring a greater light vnto the old testament. For if you meane that the newe testamente is added to the ceremoniall lawe, that cannot be so, for it is the ende of

the Ceremoniall lawe, and dothe vtterly abrogate it. Nam 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉inis legis Christus. &c. Christe is the ende of the lawe. For as well the figures as the promises conteyned in* 1.241 the lawe and the Prophetes, are fulfilled in the newe Testament by the comming* 1.242 of Christe, as he him selfe saythe, Luke. 24. If you meane that it is added to the morall lawe, that is also vntrue, for it onely explaneth it, it addeth nothing vnto it. In déede it bringeth a great lighte to the olde Testament, bicause all thinges are there fulfilled whiche were prophe〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ied of, and prefigured in the olde Testament. M. Caluin* 1.243 Institu. Cap. 3. Sect. 9. saythe, that to thinke Christ to haue added any thing to the law is moste pernicious.

I muste craue pardon of the Reader, for making suche excursions out of the way,* 1.244 for I am compelled to followe you, whiche interlace your booke with suche by▪ mat∣ters, and those so suspicious and daungerous, that I can not safely passe them ouer with silence. And euen nowe agayne do you enter into a straunge and dangerous o∣pinion in my iudgement: for you would haue the ciuill Magistrate bounde to obserue all the Iudiciall lawes of Moses, excepte suche as were made in respect of the re〈1 line〉〈1 line〉gion where they were giuen, and of the people to whome they were giuen. Of the whiche lawes the Magi∣strate you say, may onely chaunge the circumstances, as the times, and places, and manners of the people shall require. But you vtterly deni〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, and are ready to proue, if that perteyned to th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s question, that any Magistrate can saue the lyfe of blasphemers, contemptuous and stubbo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ne I∣dolaters, murderers, adulterous persons, and suche like, whiche God by his Iudiciall lawe hathe commaunded to be put to death.

Howesoeuer you passe this matter ouer as impertinent to this question, yet for as* 1.245 muche as you haue héere set it downe (and I am fully persuaded that it is vntrue) I minde to touche it something, and to vtter the reasons of my persuasions. I leaue it to the consideration of those that knowe the lawes, and state of the Realne, and especi∣ally suche as haue the chiefe gouernment and care of the same, what lieth hidde vn∣der this your opinion. First, all the lawes of this land, that be contrarie to these Iu∣diciall lawes of Moses, must be abrogated: The Prince must be abridged of that pre∣rogatiue which she hath in pardoning suche as by the lawe be condemned to dye: the punishments of death for fellonie must be mitigated according to Moses law, whiche doth by other meanes punish the same, Exod. 22. To be short, al things must be trans∣formed:* 1.246 Lawyers must cast away their huge volumes, and multitude of cases, and content them selues with the bookes of Moses: we of the Cleargie would be the best Iudges, and they must require the lawe at our handes. Deutero. 17. verse. 8. And so* 1.247 while we make them beléeue that we séeke for equalitie among our selues, we séeke in déede regall dominion ouer them. Looke Deuter. 17. verse. 12. But to omit all these considerations, whiche I leaue to those to whom they do especially perteyne, I wyll shew as briefly as I can, how farre this opinion is from true diuinitie.

First, besides all those places of Scripture, whiche make generally for the abroga∣tion* 1.248 of the whole lawe: we haue especiall places for the Iudiciall lawe, and namely those where Christ maketh lawes of deuorcement for adultrie. Math. 5. and. 19. which* 1.249 were altogither néedlesse, if she that is takē in adultrie should of necessitie be stoned to death, according to y^e law of Moses. Aug. ad Pollentiū de adult. coniug. li. 2. cap. 6. 7. 8. &. 14.* 1.250 proueth by that whiche is written of Christ. Iohn. 8. touching the woman deprehen∣ded* 1.251 in adultrie, and brought vnto him by the Scribes & Pharisies: that the wife, taken in adultrie ought not to be punished with death, but suffred to liue that she mighte be reconciled to hir husbande, or at the least repent. Cyril also vpon the. 11. of Leuit. saith, that though the punishment of death was according to the law of Moses appoynted for ad∣ultrie,* 1.252 and certayne other crimes, yet among Christians there is no suche commaundement in force. Musculus in his common places, tit. de legib. speaking of the law, sayth thus:* 1.253 They aske the question whether the whole lawe be abrogated: we answere, if whole Mo∣ses gaue place to Christ, then hathe his whole lawe giuen place to the lawe of Christe. And a little after: The commaundementes of the lawe are Morall, Iudiciall, Ceremoniall. That the Ceremoniall commaundementes haue ceassed it is euident, forsomuche as the Priest∣hoode of the lawe, to the which the ceremonies were annexed is abrogated by the Priest∣hoode of Christ, according to the order of Melchizedech: and that the Iudicials also are

ceassed it dothe herein appeare, for that the whole order of gouernment of Israell, which was requisite vnto the inhabiting of the lande of promise, hath from that time ceassed, wh〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 as they beeing expelled, began to dwell amongst the Gentiles without a king, without go∣uernours, without a Priest, and without a lawe.

Hemingius in his Encber: is of the same iudgement: his words be these. There is also* 1.254 the Iudiciall law, which expired with the common wealth of Moses: so that it dothe not binde any man of necessitie, but so farre onely, as some portion of it dothe perteyne to the law of nature (as the law agaynst incestuous mariages. Leuit. 18.) and so much of it lyke∣wise, as the ciuill Magistrate shall admit for pollicie.

I omit that place of M. Caluin, which is written in his Harmonie vpō the. 5. bookes* 1.255 of Moses, where he speaking of these lawes. Exod. 23. Deut. 12. Num. 3〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. which were giuen for the breaking of Images, destroying of places where idolatrie was cōmitted &c. saith, that they were but temporall exercises, to kéepe the people in obedience. &c. And in the same booke, speaking of the. 7▪ of Deut. The grauē Images of their Gods shall* 1.256 ye burne with fire, and couet not the siluer and golde that is on them, &c. saith, Althoughe this was a politike lawe, and giuen onely to the auncient people for a time, yet hereby we may gather how detestable Idolatrie is. &c. But of all other places that is moste euident which he hathe in his Institu. Cap. 20. Sect. 13. 14. 15. and therfore I wil rehearse it more at large. Sunt qui rectè compositam rempub. negent. &c. There are certaine which denie that* 1.257 common welth to be well ordered, which omitting the politike lawes of Moses, is ruled by the common lawes of the Gentiles. The which opinion how dangerous and seditious it is,* 1.258 let other men cōsider, it is inough for me to haue declared, that it is both false & foolish. But that vsuall diuision is to be obserued, which deuideth the whole law of God deliuered by Moses, into maners, ceremonies, & iudgements, and euery part therof is diligently to be considered, that we may vnderstande what perteyneth vnto vs thereof, and what dothe not. In the meane time, let no man be troubled with this, that both the Iudicials & ceremonies did apperteyne vnto maners: for the ancient fathers, the inuentors of this diuisiō, although they were not ignorant, that these two latter parts were occupied about maners, yet (by∣cause they might be altered and abrogated without any preiudice vnto maners) they called them not morall. They called that first part properly by that name moral, without the which the true holynesse of maners, and the immutable rule of liuing could not well consist. And agayne. The law of God forbiddeth to steale: what punishment was appoynted for thefte in the pollicie of the Iewes, appeareth▪ in Exod. The moste auncient lawes of other nations* 1.259 punished theft with double: they which followed afterwarde made a difference betwixte open theft, and that which was secret: others condemned the theeues with exile & banish∣ment: others adiudged them to be whipped: and last of all, others, to be put to death. False witnesse amongst the Iewes was punished with equal payne in respect of the hurt: in other places onely with infamie: in other places with hanging. &c. All lawes ioyntly do reuenge murder with bloud, but yet with diuers kindes of death. In some places there are greeuouser paynes appoynted for adulterers, in other places those which are more easie: yet we see how they al by this diuersitie of punishment, tende to one ende, for they al with one consent, do giue sentence of punishment agaynst those offences, which are condemned by the eternall law of God: to wit, murder, theft, ad〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ltrie, false witnesse, but they agree not all in the maner of the punishment. Neyther truly is it necessarie or expedient that they shoulde agree here∣in.* 1.260 There is a countrey which should out of hande be destroyed with theeues and slaughter, if it did not with horrible example deale very sharpely with murderers. There is a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉so some time which requireth the augmentation of the sharpnesse of punishment, and some people very prone vnto some certayne sinne, except they be with great rigour kepte in awe. He is then very euill affected, and enuieth the publike commoditie, that is offended with thys diuersitie, which is most meete to reteyne the obseruatiō of the law of God. For that which some men obiect, that by this meanes iniurie is done to the lawe of God, whiles it beeing abrogated, other lawes are preferred before it, is most vaine. For other lawes are not prefer∣red before it, but allowed, not by any simple comparison in respect of Gods law, but accor∣ding to the condition of time, place, and nation: neither can that be sayde to be abrogated,* 1.261 which was neuer prescribed vnto vs, for God deliuered it by the handes of Moses, not for

all natiōs, but particularly for the Iewes. &c. M. Beza likewise in his booke de haer 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Magist. puniend. of this matter writeth thus: VVe acknowledge those politike lawes to be pre∣scribed,* 1.262 onely to the countrey of the Iewes: neither are we so vnskilfull that we woulde haue Moses common wealth or gouernment called backe agayne, as though it were not lawfull for euery Magistrate within his owne dominion to make lawes in ciuill matters. And a little after. The Iudiciall lawes were framed only for one nation. Therefore seeing they were neuer written for vs, they can not be sayd to be abrogated. And agayne. Onely the Israelites were bound to the Iudiciall lawes, that is, those that dwell in Iurie, bicause they were made fit for that common wealth onely. And after that he hath shewed by an ex∣ample of the lawe for theft, that that maner & kinde of punishment, did onely binde the Israelites, & that other Magistrates in their countreys for good causes maye ap∣poynt a sharper kinde of punishment for the same, he cōcludeth thus: Lex enim illa Mo∣sis* 1.263 quatenùs poenae modū praescribit, alijs gentibus ne{que} vnquā fuit posita, ne{que} nūc est propriè abro∣gata. That lawe of Moses in so muche as it prescribeth the maner of punishment, was ney∣ther* 1.264 at any time giuen to other nations, neither is it now properly abrogated. So that now they that be disposed may perceyue, howe this doctrine of yours not onely tendeth to the ouerthrowing of states of cōmon wealthes, but is contrarie also to the truth, and opinion of learned men, and those especially of whome you your selfe make greatest accompt. Therefore it is true that I haue sayde in my answere to the Admonition, that is, The Iudicial law to be left to the discretion of the Magistrate to adde to it, or to take from it, or to alter and chaunge it, as shall be thought most fit for the time, manner of the countrey, and condition of the people, as M. Caluin also very aptly noteth in the very ende of that. 15. section before rehearsed.

Chap. 6. the 5. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 31. Lin. 21▪

So hath he lefte authoritie vnto his Churche to make lawes, and appoynt orders & ceremonies, as shall from time to time be thought most expedient and profitable for the same, so that nothing be done contrarie to his worde, or repugnant to the same. And this authori∣tie hath the Churche vsed, euen from the Apostles time, as it is ma∣nifest, both by the scriptures. Act. 6. Act. 15. 1. Cor. 11. & other ecclesia∣sticall stories and auncient fathers, as is before by me proued.

Iohn. Whitgifte.

To this nothing is answered.

Chap. 6. the. 6. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 31. Sect. 1.

But to come to the wordes of Deuteronomie them selues, what is it to adde to the worde of God, or to take from it? Truely to thinke otherwise, or teache otherwise of God than he hathe in his worde reuealed: Those take from the worde, that beleeue lesse than in the worde is expressed: those adde to the worde, fyrste, whiche teache or decree any thing eyther in matters of faythe or ceremonies, contrarie to the worde. Secondly, those that make any thing necessarie vnto saluation, not conteyned in the worde. Thirdly, such as make any religion, or opiniō of merite in any thing that they themselues haue inuented besides the worde of God. Last of all they adde to the word, which forbid that for a thing of it selfe

vnlawfull, which Gods worde doth not forbid, and make that sinne which Gods word doth not make sinne. But such as truly & sincere∣ly imbrace the worde of God, and admit nothing contrarie vnto it, if in gouernment & ceremonies without any wicked & superstitious o∣pinion they appoynt or retayne such as they know not to be agaynst the worde of God, and profitable for the present state of the Church, can not truly be sayd to adde any thing to the worde of God, or take any thing from it, though the same be not expressed in the worde.

T. C. Pag. 22. Sect. 3.

After you define what it is to take from, and put to the word of God, wherin not to speake of your wonderfull * 1.265 dexteritie in defining, which can define two thinges, and those contrarie (put∣ting to, and taking fro) with one difference, which Zeno him self could neuer do, you leaue out that which Moses especially ment to comprehende, which is, not to do more, nor to do lesse than he hathe commanded. And as for your diuision, it hath as euill successe here, as in other places, for when it is a great fault in diuiding to haue either too muche or too little, you fault in bothe, for where as you say, they adde, which teache or decree. &c. Besides that you leaue out, whiche Moses mente, you forget also that, whiche your selfe had sayde, whiche had placed adding too, not onely in teaching and decreeing, but in thinking or beleeuing.

And wheras you make foure parts of your diuision, the three last are found to be all vnder the first member, which is to make things of fayth and ceremonies, contrarie to the worde, and so your diuision is not onely faultie, but no diuision at all. * 1.266 The which thing I could haue easily forgiuen you, and passed by as a thing not very commendable to trauell to shew the pouertie of those things, which do sufficiently of themselues (as it were) proclayme their owne shame: but that it grieued me to see a booke lengthened with first, seconde, thirde, last, as though euery one of them conteyned some notable newe matter, which needed an Oyes before it, to stirre vp the attention of the reader, when there is nothing but a many of words without matter, as it were a sort of fayre emptie apo∣thecaries boxes, without any stuffe in them. And for that you are so harde with other men for their Logike, I will desire the reader to pardon me, if I pursue these things more narrowlier than some peraduenture will like of, or I my selfe delight in. And so for any definition or diuision that I can perceiue, it standeth fast, that nothing is to be done in the Church of God, but by his cōmandement and word directing the s〈1 line〉〈1 line〉me. It is true in deede, if they be not agaynst the worde of God, and pro∣fitable for the Churche, they are to be receyued, as those things which God by the Churche dothe commaunde, and as grounded of the worde of God. But there is the question, and therefore you taking this as a thing graunted alwayes, do alwayes fall into that whiche you charge other with, of the failacion of Petitio principij.

Io. Whitgifte.

There is neither definition nor diuision here that can please you: but what remedy? when you iestes be vttered, and you a little sported your selfe, & the matter commeth to trial, there appeareth very slēder corrections: I haue after my rude & simple maner declared what it is to adde to the word of God, or to take from it, and haue* 1.267 not sought for any exacte definition. But yet (by your leaue) two contraries may be defi∣ned by one generall difference, when we talke of those things which be common to them bothe, and do not séeke to separate them from among them selues, but from all other thinges, that be not of the same kinde. So is vertue and vyce, by this difference sensìm acquiri, & sensìm amitti, separated from al other that be not sub habitu: As Homo and brutum by this difference sensibile, be separated from all other creatures that be not vnder Animal. It is a common rule, that the definition of that whiche is called genus, doth agrée to euery part & member vnder it, which we call species, be they con∣trarie, repugnant, or otherwise disagréeing the one from the other, howsoeuer. Ther∣fore declaring generally what it is to adde to the worde, or to take from the worde, I say it is to thinke otherwise, or to teache otherwise of God, than he hath in his worde reuealed. Whiche in genere dothe aptly ex∣pounde them bothe. For as well he that addeth to the worde, as he that taketh from the worde, doth thinke or teach of God otherwise than he hath in his worde reuealed. So you sée that a man of small dexteritie, in defining may do that, whiche you thought Zeno himselfe could not performe.

But what néeded all this pastime of yours? do I not immediatly after seuerally de∣clare both what it is to adde to the worde, & what also to take from it? are you able to proue that the expositions whiche I set downe be not true? can you better

them? Will you still more and more declare your quarell to be rather agaynst the person, than the cause? You saye I leaue oute that whiche Moyses especially mente to comprehende, which is, not to doe more, nor to doe lesse than hee hathe commaunded. Surely if you were disposed to deale modestly and sincerely as it behoueth you in so weigh∣tie a matter, you woulde not thus wittingly and willingly séeke occasion of qua∣relling: whether that whiche you saye is lefte oute, muste not of recessitie be in∣cluded in those words that I haue spoken of adding to the worde, and taking from it, or no, I leaue to the indifferent reader to consider.

Touching my diuision, I say as I did of the definition. I am not curious in diui∣ding, but I playnely and after my rude manner tell howe many wayes a man may adde to the worde of God. Neyther dothe he alwayes diuide, that sheweth howe ma∣ny wayes a thing maye be done, and yet is there nothing lefte oute necessarie to be expressed. For this that you speake of thinking and beleeuing, is included in the third kinde of adding to the worde. The three laste kyndes are not founde to be vnder the fyrst▪ for it is not all one to teache or decree any thing contrarie to the worde: to make anye thyng necessarie to saluation not contayned in the worde: to put any religion or opinion of merite in any thing that men them selues haue inuented besides the worde: and to forbyd that as vnlawfull which God doth not forbid.

In the firste kinde is inuocation of Sainctes, worshipping of Images. &c. whiche be directly contrarie to the expresse worde of God. In the seconde is that decrée of Pope Boniface, whiche maketh it necessarie to saluation to be subiecte to the By∣shop of Rome, and suche lyke, whereof there is no mention in the Scriptures. In the thirde kinde are all outwarde Ceremonies inuented by man, wherein any opinion of worshipping or merite is put: as holy breade, holy water, and o∣ther Ceremonies of that sorte. In the laste parte is the decrée of Pope Nicho∣las, Dist. 22. omnes, where it is decréed, that he whiche infringeth the priuiledges of the Churche of Rome, is an heretike. And in this sorte doe those adde also to the worde, which condemne the vse of things indifferent as vnlawful, for in so doing they make that sinne, which the word of God dothe not make sinne.

Agayne that there is a great difference in the partes of my diuision, and that they are not confounded, you might haue perceyued if it hadde pleased you with bet∣ter aduyse to haue weighed them: for things may be decréed contrarie to the worde, and yet not made necessarie vnto saluation. Things may be made as necessarie to saluation, which of them selues are not contrarie to the word, and yet not conteyned in the worde: Men may haue an opinion of Religion and merite in suche thinges as they thinke not to be of necessitie to saluation. To be shorte, men may make that sinne, whych the worde of God maketh not sinne, as all those doe whiche forbid the vse of indifferent things, and make the same vnlawfull as I haue sayde before. You sée nowe that there is no one parte of this diuision (as you call it) which dothe not in∣clude something not conteyned in the other partes: and therfore all those vnséemely and immodest tauntes and words mighte haue bin forborne.

I aske no forgiuenesse of you for any thing that I haue wrytten: But I beséeche God forgyue you your outrageous contemptes, and vnchristian floutes and iestes, where with your booke is more pestered, than any of Hardinges is, where he she∣weth him selfe moste scurrilous. But I will omit them all, and onely desire the Reader to consider of what spirite they come, and in bothe our writings to respecte the matter, not the person.

Touching the exposition of the places of Deut. let the learned Reader compare it with the expositions of the learned Interpreters, and then iudge of my vnskilfull* 1.268 diuiding and defyning.

Here now I wold gladly know what T. C. hath proued agaynst the thing y^t I haue here writtē, or how he hath iustified y^e propositiō of y^e Admonition which I haue refel∣led: for the sūme of al is this. The authors of the Admonitiō say, that those things onely

are to be placed in the Churche, which God him selfe in his worde commaundeth. This I con∣fesse to be true in matters of saluation and damnation. But I saye it is vn∣true in matters of ceremonies, rites, orders, discipline, and kinde of go∣uernmente: which béeing externall matters, and alterable, are to be altered and chaūged, appoynted and abrogated, according to time, place, and person, so that no∣thing be done agaynst the worde of God. And T. C. confesseth page. 15. that* 1.269 certayne things are lefte to the order of the Churche, bicause they are of that nature, which are va∣ried by tymes, places, persons, and other circumstances, and so could not at once be set downe and established for euer, and yet so lefte to the order of the Churche, as that it doe nothing agaynst the rules aforesayde. The same dothe he affirme in effecte in this place. Nowe I pray you tell me, what difference is there in our wordes? he saythe: that certayne thinges are lefte to the order of the Churche. &c. so that nothing bee done agaynst the rules aforesayde: And I saye, that the Church hath authoritie to appoynt orders, rites, ceremonies. &c. so that nothing be done agaynst the worde of God. In déede he goeth muche further in this matter than I doe, for where I saye, The Scripture expresseth all things necessarie to saluation, he affirmeth, that many things are bothe commaunded and forbidden. &c. as I haue before noted, and is to* 1.270 be séene page. 13. of his booke.

But to ende this matter, I haue iustified my assertion by the scriptures. 1. Cor. 14. Act. 6. and. 15. 1. Cor. 11. Also by the testimonies of Iustinus Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertul∣lian, Cyprian, Ambrose, Basill, Augustine, &c. Likewise by the practises of Councels, the reporte of Historiographers, as Socrates and Sozomenus. Finally by the iudge∣ment of late writers, M. Caluin and Bucer. Now will I also adde a fewe wordes for the further confirmation of the same, and so ende this question.

¶ The opinion of other late wryters of things indifferent.

The. 7. Chapter.

Zuinglius in his booke de baptis. after that he had declared howe the Scripture con∣tayneth* 1.271 all thinges necessarie vnto saluation, he sheweth, That in externall things and matters of ceremonies, many things are to be vsed in the Churche, whiche be not contay∣ned in the Scriptures. And speaking of this place. Philip. 3. (If any think otherwise, God will also reueale the same vnto you: neuerthelesse, in that wherevnto we are come, let vs proceede by one rule, or agree among our selues) saythe, That the Apostle there spea∣keth of nothing else, than of externall ceremonies and rites, the vse and administration whereof, the same Apostle in that place affyrmeth, to be in our vvill and povver, so that vve doe nothing repugnant to the commaundement of God. Neyther trouble the publyke peace (whereof we oughte to haue especiall regarde) for externall thinges. These be the very wordes of Zuinglius, in the which there is first to be no∣ted, the interpretation of the words of the Apostle, Philip. 3. Secondly, that he vseth* 1.272 this exception, So that we doe nothing repugnant to the commaundement of God, which T. C. so muche misliketh. The same Zuinglius in the same booke, verifieth in playne wordes that whiche I before haue, touching a negatiue argument from the authoritie of the Scriptures.

Peter Martyr vpon the. 1. Corinth. 1. wryteth, That there be three kindes of traditi∣ons,* 1.273 one expressed in the Scriptures: an other playne repugnant to the worde of God: The thirde neither contrarie to the worde of God, nor yet necessarily ioyned to the same: in the vvhich vve muste obey the Churche, These three cautions beeing ob∣serued: First, that they be not obtruded as worship of God, or peculiar holynesse, but as pertayning to order, and the ciuill commoditie of the Churche, and to comelynesse in di∣uine actions: for all thinges be sufficiently contayned in Scriptures that pertayne to the worshipping of God, and holynesse. Secondly, that they be not counted so necessarie, but that they may be altered, if time require. Let the Churche keepe hir interest and

authoritie in these indifferent things, to appoynt vvhat shall be thoughte most necessarie and meete to edifying. Last of all, that the people of God be not burdened with to great a multitude of them. Thus farre Martyr.

Gualter in his preface to the first Epistle to the Corinth. after that he hath declared* 1.274 the diuersitie of rites vsed in diuerse Churches, concludeth on this sort. VVherefore S. Augustine writing to Ianuarius, after that he had layde forth diuerse ceremonyes of Chur∣ches obserued in his time, dyd very well thinke that this shoulde be the most safe rule vn∣to Christian men, if they did frame them selues, vnto those Churches, wherevnto they should come, in those things which might be done without any preiudice vnto fayth and godlynesse, his wordes are these: There is in these things (meaning customes and rytes) no better rule or instruction for a graue and wise Christian, than that he do after that man∣ner the which he seeth vsed of the Church vnto the which he shall peraduenture come. &c. The which moderation if all men woulde vse at this day, there would be lesse contention in the Church, neither shoulde Christian libertie be abridged by the superstitious traditi∣ons of men. But why doe they condemne whole Churches, for indifferent things, whiche if they woulde obey S. Paule, ought to apply them selues to the weakenesse of euery one.

Beza in an Epistle of his, prefixed before the confession of the Churches in Heluetia* 1.275 sayth, That all rytes and ceremonyes are not to be receiued without exception, which the Apostolike Church it selfe hath vsed, eyther as profitable or necessarie for their tymes: and in his booke called confessio Christ. fidei. cap. 5. he writeth That one cause of Councels and* 1.276 Synodes was, to make rules of ecclesiasticall discipline, and to appoint the gouern∣ment of the Church, according to the diuersitie of time, place and persons: For it is necessarie that in the house of the Lorde all things shoulde be done in order: of the vvhich order there is one generall reason in the vvorde of God 1. Cor. 14. But not one and the same forme, agreeing to all circum∣stances. And againe in the same Chapter he sayth, The rules or canons (of rytes and* 1.277 orders in the Church) haue respect to comelynesse in externall things, and therefore they be neither generall for the most parte, nor perpetuall: for that which is profitable in some place, in other some places would rather hurt: and moreouer the diuerse respectes of the time are such, that the same thing which for good considerations was ordained, must of ne∣cessitie sometime be abrogated: whereof it comes to passe, that there is not onely so great varietie in the olde canons, but contrarietie also. Againe in the same Chapter. VVe must* 1.278 not alwayes looke what the Apostles did in politia ecclesiastica, in the gouernmente of the Church, seyng there be most diuerse circumstances, and therfore absque 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 without* 1.279 preposterous zeale, all things can not in all places and times be reduced to one, and the same forme. &c.

In the confessiō of the Churches in Heluetia. &c. it is thus written: Men shall easily* 1.280 gather this also, that we doe not by any wicked schisme, seuer or cut off oure selues, from Christes holy Churches of Germanie, Fraunce, England, and other Christian nations, but that we well agree with all and euery one of them, in the truth of Christe, which here we haue acknowledged. For albeit there is some varietie in diuerse Churches, aboute the vtte∣ring and setting forth of their doctrine, and aboute rytes and ceremonyes, which they re∣ceiue as a meane to edifie their Churches, yet that varietie neuer semed to minister cause of dissention and schisme in the Church: for in such matters the Churches of Christ haue alvvayes vsed their libertie, as we may reade in the Ecclesiasticall history.

I omit here the confession of the Church of VVirtenberge, and the testimonyes of sundry other notable learned men. I knowe no learned writer, that doth denye the Church to haue authoritie in appoynting rytes, ceremonyes, discipline, and kinde of gouernment according to the place, time, persons, and other circumstances, thoughe the same be not expressed in the word of God, so that it doe nothing repugnante to the same.

But what néede I labour so much in a matter confessed by him, that would séeme to ouerthrowe it: for if the Iewes had twentie things left to their order in the Churche for our* 1.281

one (as T. C. hath affirmed) and yet this commaundement not broken Deu. 4. &. 12. Ni∣hil addes verbo. &c then may the Church of Christ vse hir libertie in like maner, wyth∣out any breache of the same. Wherefore to conclude. I nowe referre it to the iudge∣ment of the Reader, whether if be true or not, that I haue affyrmed against the Au∣thors of the Admonition: to wit that those things onely are not to be brought in, or vsed in the Church, which the Lord himselfe in his word hath commaunded, but that of necessitie in exter∣nall things, and outward gouernment, the Churche hath authoritie to determine ac∣cording to time, place, person. &c. though the same be not commaunded or expressed in Scripture, so that it be not repugnant to the word.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 32. Sect. 1. 2. &. Pag. 33. Sect. 1.

The other places noted in this margent, as Psal. 37. Rom. 12. 1. Cor.* 1.282 2. and the rest are not alleaged to proue any thing in cōtrouersie, but onely withoute iudgement placed in the margent to make a shewe: how aptly they be applyed I leaue to the consideration of the dili∣gent Reader.

This one thing I can not but maruell at, that these fellowes so please themselues in the platforme of their Church, and attribute so much thervnto, that they exhorte, nay rather charge the courte of Parliament, with perfecte hatred to detest the present state of the Churche, & with singular loue to embrace that which they prescribe in this Booke: and to moue them rather to this perfect hatred of vs, and singular loue of themselues, they vse the authoritie of the. 31. and 139. Psalme. In the one, Dauid sayth that he hath hated them that gyue themselues to deceitfull vanities, bicause he trusteth in the Lorde. In the o∣ther speaking of the contemners of God, of wicked and bloudie men,* 1.283 and of such as blaspheme God, and be his enemyes, he sayth, I hate them vvith an vnfained hatred. &c.

As thoughe all suche as like or alowe of the presente state of the Churche of this Realme of England, gaue them selues to deceitfull vanities, were contemners of God, wicked and bloudy men, blasphe∣mers of God, and his enimyes. I will not aggrauate this blasphe∣mie of theirs: let Prince, Nobles, and all other louers of God & his worde, consider diligently this spirite, and in time preuent the bur∣ning malice of the same: no Turke, no Iewe, no Papist coulde pos∣sibly haue spoken more spitefully of this Church and state: but such is the spirite of arrogancie. To the lyke effecte they alleage the. 15. of Iohn. 1. Timo. 3. Math. 7. &. 11. as thoughe they onely had the word of God, and were of the Churche, and we contemners and reiecters of the same. O where is humilitie? Truely if these men be not by discipline brideled, they wil worke more harme to this Church than euer the Papist dyd.

Io. Whitgifte.

To this there is not one word spoken.

Admonition.

May it therefore please your wisedomes to vnderstande, we in Englande are so farre off, from hauing a Church rightly reformed, according to the prescript of Gods word, that as yet we are not

come to the outwarde face of the same. For to speake of that wherein all consent, and wherevpon all writers accorde. The outwarde markes wherby a true Christian Church is knowne, are prea∣ching of the worde purely, ministring of the Sacramentes sincerely, and Ecclesiasticall discipline, which consisteth in admonition and correcting of faultes seuerely. Touching the first, namely the ministerie of the worde, althougher must be confessed, that the substance of doctrine by many de∣liuered is sounde and good, yet herein it fayleth, that neither the Ministers thereof are accordyng to Gods worde proued, elected, called or ordained: nor the function in such sorte so narrowly loked vnto, as of right it ought, and is of necessitie required.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 34. &. 35.

The proposition that these libellers woulde proue is, that we in Englande are so farre from hauyng a Churche rightly reformed accordyng to the prescripte of Gods worde, that as yet we are not come to the outwarde face of the same. For proofe hereof they vse this argnment: There be three out warde markes whereby a true Christian Churche is knowen: preaching of the worde purely, mi∣nistryng of the Sacramentes sincerely: and ecclesiasticall discipline, whiche consisteth in Admonition and correction of faultes seuerely. But thys Church of Englande (for so in effecte they saye) is voyde of all these, Ergo it hath not so much as the externall face of a Church. To proue that the worde of God is not preached truely, they reason on thys sort: The Ministers of the worde are not according to gods worde, proued, elected, called or ordeyned, nor the function in suche sort so narrowly loked vnto, as of right it ought, & is of necessitie re∣quired: And therfore the word of God not truely preached. Here* 1.284 (thankes be to God) they alleage not one article of Faith, or poynte of doctrine, nor one peece of any substance, to be otherwise taughte and allowed of in thys Churche (for not euery mannes folly is to be ascribed to the whole Churche) than by the prescripte worde of God may be iustified, neyther can they. Nowe howe this conclusi∣on followeth (though the antecedent were true) let those iudge that be learned. The Ministers are not rightly proued and elected. &c.* 1.285 Ergo the worde of God is not truely preached: howe wicked so e∣uer the man is, howsoeuer he intrude hymselfe into the ministerie, yet maye he preache the true worde of God. For the truthe of the doctrine dothe not in anye respecte depende vpon the goodnesse or euilnesse of the man: I praye you howe were you, and some other of your adherentes called, elected, &c? But to come to the purpose: They woulde proue that the Ministers of the worde in this Church of Englande, are not accordyng to gods worde proued, elected, called or ordeyned.

What force and pithe is in their argumentes, shall appeare in the seuerall answeres to euery one of them. This one thing I muste let you vnderstande, that these men seeke to deface thys Churche of Englande, by the selfe same groundes that the Papistes doe: al∣thoughe by another kynde of proofe. For what haue the Papistes else to saye, but that we haue no Ministers, bycause they be not rightly called, and so consequently no worde, no Sacramentes, no discipline, no Churche. And certainely if it were well examyned, I beleeue it woulde fall oute, that the Authors of this Booke haue

conspired with the Papistes to ouerthrowe (if they coulde) the state both of this Churche and Realme, howsoeuer subtilly they seeme to detest Papistrie.

T. C. Page 23. Sect. 1, 2, 3.

(a) 1.286 Where in effecte doe they saye, that the Churche of Englande is voyde of preachyng▪ and ministring of the Sacramentes? is it all one to saye, that the worde in the Churche of Eng∣lande is not purely preached, and the Sacramentes sincerely, and discipline seuerely administred, wyth thys, that the Churche of Englande is voyde of all these? Agayne, where doe they reason thus, that the worde of GOD is not truely preached, bycause the Ministers are not ryghtly proued, and elected, when as they haue not one worde of true preachyng? Is it all one to saye it is not purely preached, and to saye, it is not truely preached? Saynte Paule to the* 1.287 Philipp. is gladde that the Gospell be preached, althoughe it be not purely, but he woulde neuer haue been gladde, that it should haue been preached falsely or not truely. Againe he inueygheth not agaynst the false Apostles, in the Churche of Corinthe, bycause they preached the worde vn∣truely, but bycause they vsyng paynted words and affected eloquence, and makyng a great shewe of learnyng, and tounges, dyd not preache the Gospell sincerely: so that you see that it is one thyng, not to preache truely, and an other thing not to preache purely: and so you see their reason is not so euill, for the want of a good calling maye gyue occasion to saye, that the worde of God is not sincerely taughte, bycause there is not a lawfull and ordinarie calling. For althoughe for the substaunce of doctrine, and the manner of handlyng of it, they that Sainte Paule speaketh to, of the Philipp. dyd not faulte, yet Saynt Paule sayth that they dyd not preache purely, bycause they dyd it of contention, or of enuie, whyche was no faulte in the doctrine, but in hym that taughte. Therefore let men iudge howe iuste your wayghtes are, that expounde not purely not truely, and whyther thys be to confute other mens argumentes, rather than to skirmishe wyth your owne shadowes.

I knowe no Papistes reason thus, that bycause we haue no Ministers, therefore no worde, no Sacrament, no discipline, no Churche, For they denie that we haue the worde or Sacramen∣tes, bycause we holde not their worde and sacrifice: but if there be that so reason, yet these men that you charge, haue neither any such antecedent, or such a consequent. For they neuer sayde that there is no Ministerie in England, nor yet do euer conclude, that there is no word, no sacraments, no discipline, nor Churche.

For in saying that the face of the Churche dothe not so muche appeare (for so the whole pro∣ces of their booke dothe declare that they meane, when they say that we haue not scarce the face of the Churche) they graunte that we haue the Churche of God: but that for wante of those orna∣mentes, whiche it shoulde haue, and throughe certayne the deformed ragges of Poperie, whiche it shoulde not haue, the Churche dothe not appeare in hir natiue colours, and so beautifull, as it is meete she shoulde be prepared, to so glorious a husbande as is the sonne of God. Say you cer∣taynely, and do you beleeue that the authors of this booke, are conspired with the Papistes, to ouerthrowe this Churche and Realme? Nowe certaynely I will neuer doe that iniurie vnto them, as once to goe about to purge them of so manyfest slaunders, nor neuer be broughte by the outrage of your speeches to proue that nooneday is not mydnight: and therefore as for you, I will set your conscience and you togither. The reader I will desire, not to thinke it a straunge thing: for it is no other than hath happened to the seruaunts of God, euen from those which haue professed the same religion, whiche they dyd, as it appeareth in the. 37. of Ieremie, whiche was accused of certayne of the Israelites, that he had conspired with the Babilonians, their mortall enimyes, and layd to his charge that he was goyng to them, when he was going to Beniamin.

Io. Whitgifte,

Who is so blynde as he that will not sée? Doe they not in plaine wordes saye That the outwarde markes whereby a true Christian Churche is knowen, are preaching of the worde purely: ministring the Sacramentes sincerely, and Ecclesiasticall discipline. &c? Is not their whole drifte in the Admonition to proue, That neither the worde is preached purely, nor the Sacramentes sincerely ministred. &c. in this Chnrche of Englande? and what doe* 1.288 I otherwyse reporte of them? be not my wordes playne? where doe I affirme that they shoulde saye that the Churche of Englande is voyde of preaching and ministring the Sa∣cramentes? But let the Reader consider my wordes, and accordingly iudge of your plaine dealing. Where I write y^t they in effect say the Church of England is voyde of these, I am sure you will referre, these, to that whiche went before, that is, preaching of the worde purely, ministring of the Sacramentes sincerely, and ecclesiasticall discipline, &c. neither can you otherwise doe thoughe you woulde wrest my wordes ne∣uer so violently: and therefore that which I reporte of them, is, that they say this Church of England neither hath the worde purely preached, nor the sacramentes sincerely ministred. &c.

I make no greate difference betwixte purely, and truely, neyther dothe it followe* 1.289 that the worde of God is truely preached alwayes when the truth is preached. For as a man maye doe Iusta, not Iustè, lust thyngs and yet not iustly: so maye the truthe be preached, and yet not truely. A man maye doe that whiche is iuste vnwittingly, or for gayne, or for pleasure, or for malice, but then he dothe it not iustly, Quid non ex babitu & animo: Euen so a man maye preache the true worde of God, of affection, of contention, ambition, for profite. &c. but then he dothe not preache it truely. So that your distinction betwixt purely and truely is to no purpose.

Neyther dothe Saint Paule helpe you anye thyng at all, but is cleane centrarye* 1.290 vnto you, for in the▪ 18. verse of the firste Chapter to the Philip. these be hys wordes. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉▪ &c. whych in the Bible Printed at Geneua is thus translated: VVhat then? yet Christe is preached all manner wayes, whether it be vnder a pretence, or sincerely. So you sée that there is no difference made betwixte sincerely and truely, for the Greeke worde signi∣fyeth truely. And Maister Beza in hys notes vpon the same Chapter and. 16. verse ex∣poundyng 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 not purely, saythe thus Non pu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o scilicet animo, quùm alio qui pura* 1.291 esset doctrina, to weete, not wyth a pure mynde, seeyng that otherwyse the doctrine is pure. so that these aduerbes purely and truely in this place are referred not to the doctrine, but to mynde of hym that teacheth▪ I woulde wyshe that bothe you and others woulde cease from drawyng the Scriptures to youre phantasyes and affecti∣ons.

That this is one reason of the Papistes to proue that we are not the Churche, by∣cause we haue no true ministerie, I maruell you can be ignorant, séeyng there is no∣thing oft〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er in their mouthes.

Whether the authors of the Admonition reason in lyke manner or no, tell me, when you haue well consydered these wordes of theirs in the Epistle to the Reader. Eyther must we haue a right-ministery of God, and a ryghte gouernment of hys Churche accor∣dyng to the Scriptures set vp (both which we lacke) or eise there can be no ryghte Religion. Likewise when you haue wythoute parcialitie viewed the reste of their booke: Truely I thinke him to be more than blynde, that séeth not thys to be theyr kynde of reasoning. Their meanyng is playne, and the seconde Admonition maketh it plai∣ner, howsoeuer you woulde séeme to colour, and cloake the matter, for what other meanyng can it haue to saye that we haue no ryghte▪ Religion, and to speake so bitterly a∣gaynst the whole forme of the Churche, and the moste of suche things as be in the same?

I doe beléeue certaynely that there is some Papisticall practitioners among you, neyther is it straunge, for so conspired they wyth the Anabaptistes also as I haue declared, and the Anabaptistes hated them, as muche as you, and pretended the sun∣plicitie of the worde of God as muche as you: and bothe in pretence of zeale, of puri∣tie of lyfe, and other qualities, for the moste parte were equall vnto you. And thoughe the Prophete Ieremie were vniustly accused, yet doth not that improue any thing that I haue sayde: for they are not the Prophete Ieremye, neither in person, office, or cause, neither yet haue I accused them vniustly in any thing.

Notes

• a 1.1

  2. Reg. 23. 3. Chro. 17. 2. Chro. 29. 30. 31. Psal. 132. 2. 3. 4. Mat. 21. 12. Ioh. 2. 15.
• b 1.2

  Deut. 4. 2. Deut. 12. 32.
• c 1.3

  Psal. 37. 27. Rom. 12. 9.
• d 1.4

  1. Cor. 2. 14
• e 1.5

  Psal. 31. 6. Psal. 139. 22.
• f 1.6

  Iohn. 15. 21.
• g 1.7

  1. Tim. 3. 8.
• h 1.8

  Math. 7. 6.
• i 1.9

  Mat. 11. 3〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• * 1.10

  The grounde of the Admo∣nition.
• (a) 1.11

  But their quarell is in tol∣lerating, not in placing.
• (b) 1.12

  A Papisticall assertion.
• (c) 1.13

  Vntrue.
• * 1.14

  Ierem. 7. ver. 31. 32. Esay. 30. V. 2
• * 1.15

  An vnaduised assertion of T. C. tending to Papistrie.
• * 1.16

  What is sayd to be expressed in the Scrip∣ture.
• * 1.17

  Argumentes ab authoritate negatiue.
• * 1.18

  An arg〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ent ab authoritate holdeth affir∣matiuely.
• * 1.19

  1. Top. Cap. 8.
• * 1.20

  Zuinglius in Elench.
• * 1.21

  The places which T. C. quoteth, proue not his pur∣pose.
• * 1.22

  Iere. 7. ver. 31.
• * 1.23

  Esa. 30. ver. 2.
• * 1.24

  Wherein the scripture is sufficient.
• (*) 1.25

  As thoughe i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 were inough for you to say 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣on such sillie proofes.
• (a) 1.26

  arg. ex solis particularibus.
• * 1.27

  Two kinds of ceremonies.
• * 1.28

  Substantiall ceremonies.
• * 1.29

  Accidentall ceremonies.
• * 1.30

  1. Cor. 11.
• * 1.31

  Fol. 15. Sect. 5.
• * 1.32

  Matters of y^e kinde of go∣uernment and discipline are not necessarie to saluation. Two kindes of gouernmēt of the church.
• * 1.33

  Math. 13.
• * 1.34

  Diuerse sig∣nification of the word ne∣cessarie.
• * 1.35

  In what 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣specte gouern∣ment is neces∣sarie.
• * 1.36

  Reasons why the Church 〈◊〉〈◊〉 not tied to any one certayne kinde of exter∣nall gouern∣ment.
• * 1.37

  Onely two es∣sentiall notes of the church.
• * 1.38

  Caluine ad∣uer. Anabap.
• * 1.39

  Confess. Heb uetica. cap. 17.
• * 1.40

  want of excō∣munication is no iust cause of separation from any Churche.
• * 1.41

  Caluine ad∣uer. Anabap.
• * 1.42

  Bul. lib. 6. ad∣uer. Anabap.
• * 1.43

  Gualter in. 1. Cor. 5.
• * 1.44

  Ibidem.
• (*) 1.45

  T. C. accoun∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉th externall gouemm〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t more precious thā the doctrine of faith.
• (*) 1.46

  Note this 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s∣sertion.
• (a) 1.47

  He that dyeth in the opinion of free will, holdeth not this founda∣tion
• (b) 1.48

  Why then 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉aue not you done it, speaking so daungerously?
• * 1.49

  Pag. 13. Sect. 2.
• * 1.50

  The mercie of God infinite.
• * 1.51

  What things the Scripture hath not ex∣pressed, but left to the ordering of the Church.
• * 1.52

  The Scripture wrested by T. C.
• * 1.53

  1. Cor. 10.
• * 1.54

  1. Tim. 4.
• (a) 1.55

  Then haue you heth〈1 line〉〈1 line〉r to stri〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed in vaine
• (b) 1.56

  Holde you here.
• * 1.57

  Now 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 scrip∣ture 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the direction of all things belonging to the life of man. Page. 15.
• * 1.58

  Pro〈1 line〉〈1 line〉er. 2.
• * 1.59

  1. Cor. 10.
• * 1.60

  1. Tim. 4.
• * 1.61

  Tit. 1. 15.
• * 1.62

  The place in the. 14. to the Rom. expoū∣ded.
• * 1.63

  Rom. 14. vers. 22.
• * 1.64

  The matter in controuer∣sie is by T. C. confessed.
• * 1.65

  Pag. 22. sect. 2. Pag. 28. sect. 2.
• * 1.66

  1. Cor. 10. 1. Cor. 14.
• (a) 1.67

  You ad, espe∣cially, to the text
• * 1.68

  1. Cor. 14. Rom. 14.
• (b) 1.69

  Here in effect T. C. confesseth the matter in question.
• (c) 1.70

  What is affir∣med otherwise▪ in the answer to the Admonitiō〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• * 1.71

  The first rule of T. C. con∣cerning cere∣monies exa∣mined.
• * 1.72

  1. Co. 10. ve. 32.
• * 1.73

  The orders of the Church depend not vpon euery mans liking, or mislyking.
• * 1.74

  Musculus.
• * 1.75

  T. C. addeth to the texte, to make it serue his turne.
• * 1.76

  The seconde rule of T. C. allowed. The iudge∣mēt of come∣linesse and or∣der, resteth not in euery pri∣uate person. The thirde rule exami∣ned.
• * 1.77

  In the trea∣tise of appare tract. 7.
• * 1.78

  Theses Ecclesia Belgio-ger∣manicae. arti. 3.
• * 1.79

  The last rule pertaineth no more to cere∣monies thā to other actions.
• * 1.80

  Theses Eccles. Belg. art. 11.
• * 1.81

  T. C. is con∣trarie to him∣selfe and to the Admonition, and agreeth with the an∣swere.
• * 1.82

  Fol. 19.
• (a) 1.83

  It is lesse true dealing for you to charg〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 men wi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ey haue not affir〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed.
• (b) 1.84

  Scriptures vnskilfully al∣leaged.
• (b) 1.85

  Scriptures vnskilfully al∣leaged.
• (b) 1.86

  Scriptures vnskilfully al∣leaged.
• (b) 1.87

  Scriptures vnskilfully al∣leaged.
• (c) 1.88

  Or else you are deceyued.
• * 1.89

  T. C. seeketh quarels wher none are of∣fered.
• * 1.90

  The determi∣nation of the church ought not lightly to be altered.
• * 1.91

  Aug. ep. 118.
• * 1.92

  Scriptures vnskilfully al∣ledged by T. C.
• * 1.93

  Math. 18.
• * 1.94

  Caluin. aduer. Anabap.
• * 1.95

  The vnapt∣nesse of the proofes of T. C.
• * 1.96

  Exod. 22.
• * 1.97

  Deut. 19.
• * 1.98

  2▪ Chro 1〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.99

  T. C. trium∣pheth before the victoris.
• * 1.100

  Nebem. 8.
• (a) 1.101

  An vntruth, for there is no such thing said.
• (b) 1.102

  A place of scripture strāge lv applied.
• (c) 1.103

  These places proue that the word ought to be preached publikely, but not onely pub∣likely.
• (d) 1.104

  This is only said, but not proued.
• * 1.105

  Things in∣different lose the nature of iudifferencie when they are commaunded.
• * 1.106

  Theses eccles. Belgio. art. 6.
• * 1.107

  T. C. peruer∣teth y^e words of the Answer
• * 1.108

  Baptisme is called pr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ce in respec〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 of the place.
• * 1.109

  The worde may be prea∣ched priuately both in r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉pect of the place and persons.
• * 1.110

  Act. 5.
• * 1.111

  Act. 10.
• * 1.112

  Act. 6.
• * 1.113

  Io 4.
• * 1.114

  Act. 8.
• * 1.115

  Nehem. 8.
• * 1.116

  Pro. 8.
• * 1.117

  Math. 5.
• * 1.118

  Math. 4.
• * 1.119

  Act. 5.
• * 1.120

  The ground of the asserti∣on vnanswe∣red by. T. C.
• * 1.121

  Auncient fa∣thers of thīgs indifferent.
• (a) 1.122

  Wilfull igno∣rance, for you know very well that euery one of them greatly fauoureth this cause.
• (b) 1.123

  Moe scrip∣tures than you, and something better applyed.
• * 1.124

  And as we say in our tonge, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ettles amōg roses.
• (c) 1.125

  A better proofe, than to say, I say so, as you commonly vse to do.
• (d) 1.126

  Petitio prin∣cipij.
• * 1.127

  Sect. 1.
• * 1.128

  Neyther dumbe nor speaking per∣sons cā please T. C.
• * 1.129

  Iustin. Apo. 2.
• * 1.130

  Ibidem.
• * 1.131

  Iustin. lib. quae.
• * 1.132

  Irenaeus.
• * 1.133

  Tertul. Idem.
• * 1.134

  Idem.
• * 1.135

  ☞
• * 1.136

  Cyprian. Idem.
• * 1.137

  Ambrose in 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Ephe.
• * 1.138

  ☜
• * 1.139

  Ierome.
• * 1.140

  Basill.
• * 1.141

  Idem.
• * 1.142

  Socrates.
• * 1.143

  Sozome.
• * 1.144

  Councels of things indiffe∣rent.
• * 1.145

  Ancyranum.
• * 1.146

  Nencaes. Nicaenum.
• * 1.147

  Gangrense. Arelatens.
• * 1.148

  Scriptures of things indiffe∣rent.
• * 1.149

  1. Cor. 14. 1. Cor. 11. 2.
• * 1.150

  Caluine.
• * 1.151

  1. Cor. 11. 34. Caluine.
• * 1.152

  Caluin aduer∣sus Anabap. Why the A∣nabaptists al∣wayes preten∣ded the worde of God.
• * 1.153

  Augustin〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.154

  Idem.
• (*) 1.155

  A true sayings, but not truely applyed.
• (a) 1.156

  But it is a∣gainst that, that nothing should be placed in the Churche whyche God in his word〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 hath not com∣maunded: and therefore you do here but shifte of the controuersie〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• (b) 1.157

  Vntruth, pro∣ceeding of Igno∣rance.
• * 1.158

  Tertul. de cor. milit. Ignat. ad phi. epist. 5.
• * 1.159

  August d〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 temp. ser. 62 Amb. 10. li▪ epist▪
• * 1.160

  Augustine de∣liuered from vntrue sur∣mises.
• * 1.161

  The suttle dealing of T. C. in alte∣ring y^e state of the controuer∣sie.
• * 1.162

  Augu. ep. 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.163

  Idem.
• * 1.164

  The Church may not alter any order ge∣nerally obser∣ued, without iust cause.
• * 1.165

  Idem.
• * 1.166

  What exam∣ples and cus∣tomes of the Apostles we must follow.
• * 1.167

  The Replyer setteth the fa∣thers together by the eares without cause
• * 1.168

  Ibidem.
• * 1.169

  Ibidem.
• * 1.170

  Aug. Ep. 118.
• * 1.171

  Nor one whit, but the contra∣rie shall be proued.
• * 1.172

  Sermo. 7. de baptis. cont. Donatist. lib. 5. ca. 23.
• * 1.173

  A pretie and sound collecti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• (a) 1.174

  A great vn∣truthe and ab∣surditie.
• (b) 1.175

  Nay, marke how your affec∣tions moue yo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 to speake vn∣truely.
• * 1.176

  The rule of S. Augustine doth not esta∣blishe, but o∣uerthrow p〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣perie.
• * 1.177

  Zuingl. de baptis. of the rule of Aug.
• * 1.178

  A grosse er∣ror of T. C.
• * 1.179

  Gal. 5.
• * 1.180

  Genes. 22.
• * 1.181

  Exod. 11.
• * 1.182

  Exod. 3.
• * 1.183

  1 Sam. 15.
• * 1.184

  Act. 15.
• * 1.185

  1. Tim. 5.
• * 1.186

  Diuerskinds of commaun∣dements.
• * 1.187

  Iustinus Mar∣tyr.
• * 1.188

  Tertul.
• * 1.189

  Basil.
• * 1.190

  Euseb.
• (1) 1.191

  M Doctor speaketh not of preaching ano∣ther Gospell, but of appoynting other rites and orders
• (2) 1.192

  Bicause it no∣thing pertaineth to my purpose. S. Aug. mangled and not truely reported.
• (3) 1.193

  Wordes of pleasure.
• (4) 1.194

  Tu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉pe est doctori. &c.
• * 1.195

  Decrees that perteyne to order & come∣linesse, are not only humane.
• * 1.196

  S. Augustine mangled and vntruely re∣ported by T. C.
• * 1.197

  T. C fauire〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 in ignorantia Elenchi▪
• * 1.198

  1. Cor. 11.
• * 1.199

  Collections out of Cal∣uine.
• (a) 1.200

  You say afte〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 that there are but these two.
• (b) 1.201

  Vntruth, for I haue reported his wordes to no other ende than he hathe written them.
• (c) 1.202

  You shoulde haue shewed wherein his wordes ar〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 ra〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣ked and wryth〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• (d) 1.203

  In any place that maketh with you, but not otherwise.
• * 1.204

  Zuinglius ad∣ucrs. Anab.
• * 1.205

  Fol. 5. sect. vlt. Fo. 14. lin. 5. Fol. 6. sect. 4.
• * 1.206

  Zuinglius i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Ecclesi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉st. Id〈1 line〉〈1 line〉m de bap∣ti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉mo.
• * 1.207

  Bucer of things indif∣ferent.
• * 1.208

  You do learned mē great iniury, in accusing thē of contrarietie.
• (1) 1.209

  You cannot but vnderstand that they are printed.
• (2) 1.210

  What say you than to the. 14. reason of the Admonition, then ministers were not so tyed to any forme of prayers. &c.
• (3) 1.211

  An vn truth, for I gyue it not to the Byshops only, but to a godly Prince with the aduice and consent of godly and lear∣ned Byshops, and other of the wisest.
• * 1.212

  The occasion of mens wri∣tings must be considered.
• * 1.213

  First admo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉▪ the. 14. rea∣son.
• * 1.214

  The places in the. 4. and. 12. o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Deutero. expounded.
• (a) 1.215

  A 〈◊〉〈◊〉 per∣uerting of ma ni〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ell and playn〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 words.
• * 1.216

  Apoca. 22.
• * 1.217

  The first an∣swer iustifyed
• * 1.218

  How farre that precept in Deut. is extended.
• * 1.219

  Fol. 13. Sect. 2.
• * 1.220

  Iet. 31. v. 34
• * 1.221

  Isay. 56.
• * 1.222

  Wherein the Jewes had a more certaine direction than we.
• * 1.223

  Ierem. 3.
• * 1.224

  Esay. 56.
• * 1.225

  Why the Iewes had their ceremo∣nies particu∣larly prescribed
• * 1.226

  Cal. in barmo. in pentateuc.
• * 1.227

  Aug. epist. 118
• * 1.228

  Galat. 5.
• * 1.229

  Cal. adue. ana.
• * 1.230

  The iudiciall law perteyned to the gouern∣ment of the Church.
• * 1.231

  Muscul.
• * 1.232

  Beza.
• * 1.233

  Caluine.
• * 1.234

  How we haue but two Ce∣remonies.
• * 1.235

  1. Cor. 14.
• * 1.236

  A large offer but not so soone per formed.
• (a) 1.237

  Marke these words.
• * 1.238

  Musc. loc. com. tit. de. legib.
• * 1.239

  The assertion of T. C. di∣rectly 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣eth the An∣swere.
• * 1.240

  The assertion of T. C. ten∣deth to Iu∣daisme.
• * 1.241

  Rom. 10.
• * 1.242

  Luke. 24.
• * 1.243

  Caluin. inst.
• * 1.244

  Whether the Magistrate be bounde to obserue the Iudiciall law of Moses.
• * 1.245

  The 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 with the asser tion of T. C.
• * 1.246

  Exod. 22.
• * 1.247

  Deut. 17.
• * 1.248

  The Iudici∣all lawe abro∣gat〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.249

  Mat. 5. &. 19.
• * 1.250

  Augustine.
• * 1.251

  Iohn. 8.
• * 1.252

  Cyrill.
• * 1.253

  Muscul.
• * 1.254

  Hemingius.
• * 1.255

  Caluin.
• * 1.256

  Deut. 7.
• * 1.257

  Caluinus.
• * 1.258

  ☞
• * 1.259

  Exod. 22.
• * 1.260

  ☞
• * 1.261

  ☞
• * 1.262

  Beza.
• * 1.263

  Idem.
• * 1.264

  ☜
• * 1.265

  There is no great dexteritie required to per∣forme this.
• * 1.266

  All this is spo∣ken in contempt of the person, not in defense of the cause.
• * 1.267

  Two contra∣ties may be defined with one differēce.
• * 1.268

  The Replier hath spēt ma∣ny wordes in confuting that which he him selfe cōfesseth.
• * 1.269

  Pag. 15. Sect. 5.
• * 1.270

  Pag. 13. Sect. 2.
• * 1.271

  Zuinglius.
• * 1.272

  Collections out of Zuin∣glius.
• * 1.273

  P. Martyr.
• * 1.274

  Gualter.
• * 1.275

  Beza.
• * 1.276

  Idem.
• * 1.277

  Idem.
• * 1.278

  Idem.
• * 1.279

  ☜
• * 1.280

  Confess. ecclesi∣arum Heluet.
• * 1.281

  Pag. 21. Sect. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• * 1.282

  Scriptures vnchristianly abused by the Admonition.
• * 1.283

  Marke this spirite.
• * 1.284

  All pointes of doctrine pure in this church.
• * 1.285

  An vnapt r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣son.
• (a) 1.286

  Where do I 〈◊〉〈◊〉 that they say so?
• * 1.287

  A cauill.
• * 1.288

  T. C. wil∣luigly peruer∣teth the words of y^e Answere.
• * 1.289

  Purely and truely.
• * 1.290

  1. Phi. vers. 18.
• * 1.291

  Beza.