The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

T. C. Pag. 19. Sect. 2. 3. 4. 5. &. Pag. 20. Sect. 1.

Why should you trust that M. Caluins iudgemēt wil weigh with them, if they be Anabaptists (as you accuse them) if they be Donatistes, if Catharists, if conspired with the Papistes, how can you thinke y^t they wil so easily rest in M. Caluines iudgemēt, which hated and confuted all Anabap∣tisme, Donatisme, Catharisme, & Papisme? but it is true which the prouerb sayth, memorē. &c. he y^t wil speake an vntruth, had need haue a good memorie: & this is the force of the truth, in the consci∣ence of man, that although he suppresse it, & pretend the contrary, yet at vnwares it stealeth out. For what greater testimonie could you haue giuen of them, that they hate a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 those heresies, whiche you lay to their charge, than to say, y^t you trust M. Caluins iudgement wil weigh 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 thē? Now in deed that you be not deceiued, we receiue M. Caluin, & weigh of him, as of the notablest instrumēt y^t the Lord hath stirred vp, for y^e purging of his Churches, & of the restoring of the plaine & sincere inter∣pretation of the scriptures, which hath ben since the Apostles times. And yet we do not so read his works, y^e we beleue any thing to be true, bicause he saith it, but so far as we cā esteme, that y^e which he saith, doth agree with the canonicall scriptures. But what gather you out of M. Caluine?

First that all necessarie things to saluation, are conteined in the scripture: who denyeth it?

In the second collection, where you wold giue to vnderstand y^e ceremonies & externall discipline are not prescribed particularly by the word of God, & therfore left to the order of the Churche: you must vnderstād, that al external discipline is not left to the order of y^e Church, being particularly pr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 scribed in y^e scriptures, no more than (a) 1.1 al ceremonies are left to the order of y^e Church, as the sacra ments of Baptisin, & the supper o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 the Lord: whereas, vpon the indefinite speaking of M. Caluine, saying Ceremonies & externall discipline, without adding all, or some, you go about (b) 1.2 subtilly to make mē beleue y^t Caluin had placed the whole external discipline in y^e power & arbitrement of the Church. For i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 al external discipline were arbitrarie, & in the choise of the Church, excōmunication also (which is a part of it) might be cast away, which I think you wil not say. But if y^t M. Caluine were aliue to heare his sentēces (c) 1.3 racked and writhen, to establish those things, which he stroue so mightily to ouerthrowe, and to ouerthrow those things that he laboured so sore to establishe, what might he saye? & the iniurie whyche is done to him is nothyng lesse bycause he is dead.

Concerning all the rest of your collections, I haue not lightly knowne a man, whiche ta〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eth so much paine w^t so small gain, & which soweth his seed in the sea, wherof ther wil neuer rise encrease. For I know none that euer deined those things, vnlesse peraduenture you would make the reader beleeue, y^e a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 those be contētious, which moue any controuersie of things which they iudge to be a∣misse, & then it is answered before, & now I answere further, that they that moue to reformation of things, are no more to be blamed as authors of contētion, than the Physitiō, which giueth a purga∣tiō, is to be blamed for the rumbling & stirre in y^e beliy, & other disquietnesse of y^e body, which should not haue be 〈◊〉〈◊〉 y^e 〈◊〉〈◊〉 humors & naughty disposition of it, had not caused or procured this purgation.

Wheras you conclude, that these contētions would be spon ended, if M Caluins words were no∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ed, here we wil ioyn with you, & wil not refuse y^e (d) 1.4 iudgemēt of M. Caluin in any matter that we haue in controuers〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e with you, which I speake not therfore, bicause I woulde call the decision of controuersies to men and theyr words (whych pertayn only to God and to his word) but bicause I know his iudgement in these, thyngs to be cleane against you, and especially for that you would beate men in hand, that M. Caluin is on your syde, and agaynst vs.

Io. Whitgifte.

If you your selfe will of necessitie inforce these qualities and conditions of Ana∣baptistes (whiche I in the beginning rehersed) vpon the authors of the admonition, who can let you? The moste that I haue sayde, is that I suspecte them, bycause they so agree with them in certaine qualities and practices. But if they were bent that waye, yet doth it not folow that they woulde by and by séeme to con∣temne M. Caluines or any other famous and learned mannes iudgemente. For you knowe that the chiefe captaines of the Anabaptistes, did not forthwith vtter eyther al their contempt of learned men, or all their pestiferous opinions at the fyrst, but vsed therin some policie, suche as might most preuayle to winne credite vnto theyr faction. You remember that Zuinglius in his booke called Ecclesiast. sayth of the Ana∣baptists,* 1.5 that though they protested, and by othe denyed that they ment to take any au∣thoritie from the magistrate, yet shortly after it would appeare, that they would haue bin disobedient to all lawes of Magistrates. &c. as I haue before rehersed: the practise wher∣of is to be séene in Sleidan and other stories.

And although in the beginning it was pretended that the contention was but in matters of no great importance, as cap, surplesse, tippet. &c. yet in the additions to the first admonition fol. 9. it is protested, that the strife is for greater matters, as for a true ministerie, and gouernmente of the Churche, and nowe you say, that certain matters* 1.6 whiche be in controuersie, are matters of lyfe and death, of saluation and damnation. fol. 5. & 14. Besides all thys the additions that you make to the protestation of your obediēcs to the ciuile Magistrate fol. 6. &c. is verie suspicious, so is your doctrine touching the authoritie of the ciuill magistrate also, as I haue in an other place declared. Wher∣fore how farre both they and you will as yet procéede, is not certainly knowne. In the meane tyme, if by allowing suche as M. Caluine is, some credite were not main∣tained, wise and learned men would the sooner espie their dooings.

When I say, that I trust M. Caluines iudgemente will weigh some thing with them. I speake it but in comparison, to the authoritie of suche as I haue before alleaged. For I know they make small acc〈1 line〉〈1 line〉mpt of any author that wri∣teth against them, but least of all of the olde auncient fathers, whom some of them are not ashamed to call pillorie Doctours. They may therfore beare a countenance to suche as hate and confute Anabaptisme, Papisme. &c. and yet both ioyne with the Papists and the Anabaptists &c. in disturbing the Churche.

As the woordes of M. Caluine be directely to my purpose, and my collections truly gathered out of them, so is your answere thervnto verie weake, and in déed nothing. The woordes of M. Caluine wher vpon my seconde collection is gathered, be these: But bicause in externall discipline and ceremonies he woulde not particularly prescribe what we ought to followe, bycause he foresaw that this depended vpon the state and con∣dition of the tyme, neyther did iudge one forme or maner to be agreeable to all ages: Here we must haue respect. &c. Conferre these woordes with my collection, and you shall sée them agrée in all poyntes. And surely M. Caluine sayeth that fully and plainely in this place, whiche I haue taken in hande to proue. M. Caluine neyther addeth all, nor some, and therfore neyther haue I added them, least I mighte séeme to be a corrup∣ter of his woordes.

Your obiection of the Supper of the Lorde, and of Baptisme, is altogether friuolous: for they be substantiall Ceremonies: and not ceremonies onely, but Sacramentes also, and therfore must haue of necessitie an expresse commaundement in the worde of God.

Touching excōmunication, I shal speake hereafter, it is the matter that the Anabap∣tists so greatly vrged, and for the not vsing of the whiche, they separated themselues from the Churches, where the Gospell was preached, as appeareth in the bookes bothe of Caluine, Bullinger, and others, against them. I knowe that touchyng Excommunication, whether the vse of it bée at all 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ymes so necessarye or no,

that it maye not bée altered, learned men doe varie in iudgementes, whose opini∣ons in that matter I will deferre, vntill I come where I haue farther occasion to speake of it.

If M. Caluine were alyue, and vnderstode the state of our Churche and controuersie truly, I verily beléeue that he would vtterly condemne your doings: and I am the rather induced to thinke so, bicause I vnderstande him to haue allowed many things in the Englishe Church being at Geneua, which you altogither misselyke, as Funeral sermons. &c. And therfore he would not thinke his wordes racked one whit, to esta∣blishe any thing that he would haue had ouerthrowne.

The rest of my collections are most agréeable to M Caluines woords, moste necessary for this present time, and moste apte for my purpose: and youre passing them ouer so slightly, doth argue your lacke of abilitie to answere them. In deede they flatly de∣termine this controuersie, and in effect ouerthrowe your whole booke.

Those that make contention in the Churche for suche matters as you doe, and in suche sorte and maner, can not auoyde the iuste accusations of being contentious per∣sons: and if the Physition giueth a purgation where there is no néede, or a more ve∣hement purgation than is conuenient for the disease, or minister it out of time, or giue one purgation for an other. &c. what rumbling and stirre soeuer follow in the bodye, he may be iustly sayde to be the author and cause of them. Do you not knowe what Zuinglius sayeth in his Ecclesiast. speaking of Anabaptistes: If they were sente of God,* 1.7 and endued with the spirite of loue, they would haue construed in the beste parte, those externall things. &c. And againe, Christe neuer made any contention for externall thin∣ges, and in his booke de Baptismo, They go aboute innouations of their owne priuate au∣thoritie. &c.

I vse M. Caluines iudgement, as I vse the iudgement of other learned men, ney∣ther will I refuse any learned mans opinion in these controuersies, that truly and wholly vnderstandeth the state of this Church, and the grounde of all thinges vsed in it. But I doubt how you will hereafter stand to this offer.

Notes

• (a) 1.1

  You say afte〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 that there are but these two.
• (b) 1.2

  Vntruth, for I haue reported his wordes to no other ende than he hathe written them.
• (c) 1.3

  You shoulde haue shewed wherein his wordes ar〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 ra〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣ked and wryth〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• (d) 1.4

  In any place that maketh with you, but not otherwise.
• * 1.5

  Zuinglius ad∣ucrs. Anab.
• * 1.6

  Fol. 5. sect. vlt. Fo. 14. lin. 5. Fol. 6. sect. 4.
• * 1.7

  Zuinglius i〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 Ecclesi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉st. Id〈1 line〉〈1 line〉m de bap∣ti〈1 line〉〈1 line〉mo.