The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

Chap. 3. the. 3. Diuision.

Ansvvere to the Admonition. Pag. 24. Sect. 1. 2. 3. & Pag. 25. Sect. 1.

And agayne, Quod ne{que} contra fidem, ne{que} contra bonos mores iniungitur, indifferenter est habendum, & pro eorum inter quos viuitur societate seruandum est, That vvhich is enioy∣ned, being neither agaynst fayth, nor good maners, is to be counted indiffe∣rent, and to be obserued, as the societie of those vvith vvhome vve lyne requiteth.

In the same Epistle answering this question (whether vpon the

Thursday before Easter, the Lordes supper shoulde be celebrated in the morning, or at nighte, because Christe dyd institute this Sa∣crament, and deliuer the same to hys Disciples after supper, he gy∣ueth these three rules worthy to be noted, the first is this: If the holy Scripture prescribe any thing to be done, there is no doubte but that muste be obserued, as it is there prescribed. The seconde is this: That if any thing be vniuersally obserued of the vvhole Churche (not repug∣nant to the Scriptures) (for so he meaneth) not to keepe that, or to rea∣son of that is madnesse. The thirde: If it be not vniuersally obserued, but diuersly in diuers Churches: Faciat quis{que} quod in ea ecclesia in quā venit inuenerit: Let euery man do as he findeth in that Churche into the vvhiche he com∣meth, modònon sit contra fidem aut contra mores, So that it be not agaynst faythe or good maners, for so he addeth.

In the same Epistle agayne he sayth, that the Lorde hath not in Scripture declared in what order and maner his Supper shoulde be celebrated, but lefte that to his Disciples. And in his hundreth and nintenth ad Ianuar. In those things (sayth he) that be diuersly obser∣ued in diuers places, this rule as moste profitable is to be kepte, that those things vvhich be not agaynst faythe, neither good maners, and make some∣thing to exhorte vnto a better life, vvheresoeuer they are instituted, vve ought not onely not to disallovve them, but to prayse them, and to follovv them. By all these places of this learned father it is euident, that it hathe beene receyued from time to time as a certayne truthe, that the Church of Christ hath authoritie to ordayne and constitute, as shall be necessarie, in those things before of me rehearsed.

For a further proofe heereof, I coulde alleage that auncient and learned father Iustinus Martyr, in his seconde Apologie pro* 1.1 Christianis, and in his booke of questions. Tertullian in his booke Decoro∣na militis. Basill also in his. 63. Epistle writtē to the ministers of Neocaesaria.* 1.2 Eusebius Lib. 5. Ecclesiasti. histor. Cap. 25. &. 26. and diuers other, but I omit* 1.3 them for breuitie sake, neither doe I alleage those learned fathers,* 1.4 because I thinke their authoritie any thing at all preuayleth with the authors of the Libell, but for the wyse, discrete, humble, and learned, whose humilitie and wysdome wyll not suffer them to des∣pise the iudgements of so learned and godly fathers.

T. C. Pag. 18. Sect. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. & Pag. 19. Sect. 1.

As for that rule that he giueth when he say the, what so euer is not. &c. and for the last of the three rules, I receyue them with his owne interpretation, whiche he hathe afterwarde in 119. Epist. ad Ianuarium, whiche is, that it be also profitable.

And as for those three rules, which you say, are worthy to be noted, I can see nothing, that they helpe your cause one whitte, for I knowe no man that euer denied, but that the Church may in suche thinges as are not specified and precisely determined, make orders, so they be grounded of those generall rules which I haue before alleaged out of S. Paule.

And as for the seconde of the three rules, I can not at any hande allowe it, for when all Chri∣stianitie was ouerrunne with poperie, thinges were vniuersally obserued, whiche to keepe were meere wickednesse, and this strengtheneth the Papistes vniuersalitie.

Concerning your Glose (if it be not repugnant to the scripture) besides that it is not inough, because it muste be grounded by the Scripture, and that it is wicked to giue suche authoritie to any decree of men, that a man shoulde not enquire of it, or reason of it, I haue shewed that he mente nothing lesse. For affirming that suche thinges are the Apostles commaundementes, his meaning was, that they shoulde be without all exception receyued, and absolutely. 〈◊〉〈◊〉

muche better is it that wee take heede to the words of the Apostle, than eyther to S. Augustines or yours, whiche sayth, that if he, or an Angell from heauen, shoulde preache any other (1) 1.5 Gospel, than that whiche he had preached, that they shoulde holde him accursed: he saythe not any con∣trarie or repugnant doctrine, but any other Gospell.

But tell me, why(2) 1.6 passed you by that in Augustine which he writeth to Ianuarie likewise, that those thinges whiche are not contayned in the Scripture, nor decreed of Councels, nor con∣firmed by generall customes, but are varied by the maners of Regions, and of men, vpon occasion offered, oughte to be cutte off, althoughe they seeme not to be agaynst faythe, because they presse with seru〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e burdens, the religion whiche Christe woulde haue free. This sentence belyke was to hotte for you, you could not carie it. Therest whose names you recite (whiche you say you leaue off for breuitie sake) I leaue to the iudgement of the Reader to consider, wherefore they bee lefte out, seeing that Augustine, in whome you put so great trust, answereth so little to your expecta∣tion. This is certayne, that bre〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tie (whiche you pretende) was in small commendations wyth you, (3) 1.7 whiche make so often repetitions, stuffe in diuers sentences of doctours and wryters, to proue thinges that no man denieth, translate whole leaues to so small purpose, (4) 1.8 vpon so lighte occasions make so often digressions, sometymes agaynst the vnlearnednesse, sometymes agaynst the malice, sometymes agaynst the intemperancie of speeche of the authors of the Admonition, and euery hande whyle pulling oute the sworde vpon them, and throughout the whole booke spor∣ting your selfe with the quotations in the margent: so that if all these were taken oute of your booke, as winde out of a bladder, we shoulde haue had it in a narrowe roome, whiche is thus swelled into suche a volume, and in steade of a booke of two shillings, we should haue had a pam∣flet of two pence.

And whereas you say, that you haue not alleaged these learned fathers for the authors of the Libell, but for the wyse, discrete, humble, and learned: to them also I leaue it to consider, vpon that whiche is alleaged by me. First, howe lyke a diuine it is, to seeke for rules in the Doctours, to measure the making of ceremonies by, whiche you mighte haue had in the Scriptures: there at the riuers, heere at the fountayne: vncertayne there, whiche heere are certayne, there 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉parte false, whiche are heere altogither true: then to howe little purpose they serue you, and laste of all, howe they make agaynst you.

Io. Whitgifte.

I take that whiche you graunte: bothe the first rule, whiche is, Quod ne{que} contra fi∣dem. &c. and the laste of the thrée, with what interpretation soeuer you admitte them, serue my turne very well, and fully proue my present purpose. Wherefore in graunting of them, you haue graunted as muche to me as hitherto I haue desired. Of the rules out of S. Paule, I haue spoken before: so haue I likewyse of the endes whiche the Churche must haue a respect vnto in hir decrées of orders, ceremonies, and gouernment, wherof also I shall haue occasion to speake hereafter.

The seconde of the three rules you can not at any hande allowe, but there is no cause why you should mislike it. For Augustine did giue it as a rule méete for his tyme, not for all tymes, althoughe it may serue also for all times, if his meaning be ioyned wyth it, that is, If that which is vniuersally obserued of the whole Churche, be not repugnant to the worde of God, and so it strengtheneth not one whit the Papistes pretended vniuersalitie.

In mattrrs of order, ceremonies, and gouernment, it is sufficient if they be not re∣pugnant to the scripture. Neither do I thinke any great difference to be betwixt not re∣pugnant to the worde of God, and according to the worde.

That whiche is generally obserued, and of that kinde that the rule meaneth, is* 1.9 not onely mans tradition and decree, but Gods also. M. Caluin teacheth you in his In∣stitutions, Cap. 13. Sect. 31. that suche kinde of decrees, as pertayne to order and comely∣nesse, are not onely humane, but diuine. And he bringeth in for an example knéeling at publike prayers.

S. Augustines meaning is, that he would haue no factions or contentions in the Church, or any man to trouble the peace thereof, by setting him selfe agaynst lawfull orders and customes of the same: otherwise I thinke that he neither forbiddeth to en∣quire, or reason of any such matter. But you think that Augustine was so adicted to such decrées of the Apostles, that his meaning was to haue them receyued without all exception. Surely I thinke that he was so persuaded in déede of such decrées, as he meaneth and speaketh of in that place. But for as muche as in suche rules he hath sundrie times made suche exceptions, Quod ne{que} cóntra fidem. &c. therfore this rule also is to be recey∣ued of vs, according to his meaning in all suche like rules.

God forbid that I should not take heede to those words of the Apostle, & hold him accursed which shall preache any other Gospell, than that which he had preached. For I take him that preacheth any other Gospell, to preache contrarie and repugnant doctrine to the Apo∣stle: and vndoubtedly he that teacheth any thing to be necessary to saluation, which is not comprehended in the scripture, teacheth a false doctrine, and cleane contrarie to the doctrine of the Scripture. But you do not vse this place (I am sure) agaynst any thing that is héere sayde. Our question is not of matters pertayning to saluation, but of ceremonies, of externall orders, and discipline. Whereof S. Paule speaketh nothing in that place. I make them not matters of saluation, neither are they.

I will tell you why I passed by that whych S. Augustine writeth to Ianuary, Epist. 119. and is nowe recited by you, because it nothing pertayneth to my purpose, and yet it is rather with me, than agaynst me.

But let me nowe aske you an other question, why do you not truly report S. Au∣gustines* 1.10 words, but mayme them both before, behinde, and in the middest, for Augu∣stine in the wordes that immediatly go before, sayth: That he was muche gréeued, because that many things which were more profitably commaunded in the worde of God were neglected, by reason of so many presumptuous obseruations of outwarde ceremo∣nies: the omitting whereof was more greeuously punished, than the breaking of Gods commaundements. And vpon this occasion he concludeth thus: Omnia ita{que} talia quae ne{que} sanctorum. &c. All suche ceremonies (scilicet, as be impediments to the obseruing of the commaundement of God, and are preferred before Gods commaundementes) beeing neither contayned in the holy Scriptures, nor founde decreed in the Councels of Bishops, nor cōfirmed by the custome of the whole Church, but are varied innumerably by the diuers maners of diuers Regions: so that scarcely, or neuer the causes can be found out, whiche men followed in appoynting of them: when occasion is offered I thinke they ought to he cut off without any doubt. Hitherto Augustine.

Therefore in reciting the wordes of S. Augustine in this place, first you haue omitted the wordes going before, that expresse his mynde, and declare that he mea∣neth suche ceremonies as be impedimentes to the obseruing of Gods commaunde∣mentes: for hauing spoken of suche before in manyfest wordes, he concludeth (as I haue sayde) on this sort, Omnia ita{que} talia. &c. All suche ceremonies. &c. whiche words you haue fraudulently kept backe.

Secondly, where S. Augustine speaketh of the vnreasonable multitude of ce∣remonies, vsing these wordes: innumerabiliter variantur, are varied innumera∣bly, you haue likwyse lefte out this word, innumerably, which also expresseth Au∣gustines meaning.

Laste of all you haue concealed a sentence in the middest, whiche is very ma∣teriall to the declaring of Augustine his minde. The sentence is this: Ita vt vix aut omninò nunquàm inueniri possint causae, quas in eis instituendis homines secuti sunt: So that scarcely or neuer the causes can be founde oute, whiche men followed in appoyn∣ting of them. Whereby it is playne, that he also meaneth suche ceremonies as bée appoynted without reason or cause. And yet in the latter ende he addeth: But the Churche of God beeing placed betwixte muche chaffe and darnell, dothe tollerate many thinges. &c. But I am so farre from defending the multitude, or burdensomnesse of ceremonies, that I consent in all poyntes with that saying of Augustine, where∣fore this sentence is nothing to hotte for me, but pleaseth me righte well: And it had bin more for your commendation if you had not medled withall.

They whose names I héere recite (thoughe I haue not written their wordes) yet in the places whiche I haue qnoted doe affirme as muche as I recite them for, whiche you might haue founde, if you had taken paynes to searche for the same, as I thinke verily you haue done, and founde little for your purpose, and therfore are content to passe them ouer in silence.

If I make so ofte repetitinons, I doe but as I am occasioned by them whome I answere, and as you do your selfe in this Replie, though it pleaseth you not to be ac∣knowne

of it. The sentences of Doctors and writers that I stuffe in, argue that I haue red them, and that I am not ashamed to lay them open, to the ende my playne dea∣ling may be séene, in alledging of them. But what? did you before fynde faulte with my Dumbe doctors, and can you not nowe abyde them speaking? surely I intend not to be directed by so vnconstant a guyde.

If I proue things that no man denyeth, you hadde the lesse laboure in replying: If I translate whole leaues to so small purpose, they be the sooner answered: if vpon so lighte oc∣casions, I haue made so often digressions, you will take héede (I am well assured) that you offende not in the lyke: which truly you haue forgotten in this place, for here is a digression without all reason. But I will let your reuerende and modeste speaches passe, and not recompence them with the lyke: for it neither sauoureth the spirite of God, neither yet any modest and good nature, but a stomack swelling rather against the person, than against the cause.

My purpose is not in this place to seke for rules to measure Ceremonies by, but to proue that in Ceremonies and other externall things, muche is lefte to the discretion of the Churche, whiche is not to be founde in Scriptures: and yet I know none of these rules vnméete for a diuine to search for, or to vnderstand, vnlesse it be suche a one, as contemneth all other mens learning but his owne. But how happeneth it that you haue answered nothing to the last place that I haue alleaged out of Augustine. Or why say you nothing to my conclusion, whiche is, that by all those places of this learned father, it is euident. &c.

In all this your replie you haue greatly faulted in ignorantia Elenchi, for you haue not reasoned, nor answered ad idem, but spoken altogether from the purpose.* 1.11

Notes

• * 1.1

  Iustinus Mar∣tyr.
• * 1.2

  Tertul.
• * 1.3

  Basil.
• * 1.4

  Euseb.
• (1) 1.5

  M Doctor speaketh not of preaching ano∣ther Gospell, but of appoynting other rites and orders
• (2) 1.6

  Bicause it no∣thing pertaineth to my purpose. S. Aug. mangled and not truely reported.
• (3) 1.7

  Wordes of pleasure.
• (4) 1.8

  Tu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉pe est doctori. &c.
• * 1.9

  Decrees that perteyne to order & come∣linesse, are not only humane.
• * 1.10

  S. Augustine mangled and vntruely re∣ported by T. C.
• * 1.11

  T. C fauire〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 in ignorantia Elenchi▪