The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

T. C. Page. 15. lin. 8. & Sect. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5.

Which rules I will here sette downe, as those which I would haue as wel all orders and ce∣remonies of the Church framed by, as by the which I will be content, that all those orders and ceremonies which are now in question, whether they be good and conuenient or no, should be tri∣ed and examined by. And they are those rules, whiche Sainct Paule gaue in suche cases, as are not particularly mentioned of in the Scripture.* 1.1

• The fyrste, that they offend not any (a) 1.2 especially the Churche of God.
• The seconde is, (that which you cite also out of Paule) that all be done in order and comelynesse.* 1.3
• The thirde, that all be doone to edifying.
• The last, that they be done to the glorie of God.

So that you see that those thyngs which you recken vp of the houre, and time, & day of prayer, &c. albeit they be not specified in the Scripture, yet they are not left to any, to order at their plea∣sure▪ or so that they be not against the worde of God: but euen by and according to the woorde of God, they must be established, and those alone to be taken, which doe agree best & neerest with these rules before recited. And so it is brought to passe (which you thinke a greate absurditie,) that all things in the Churche shoulde be appointed, according to the worde of God: whereby it lykewyse appeareth, that we denye not but (b) 1.4 certayn thyngs are left to the order of the Church, bycause they are of that nature, which are varyed by tymes, places, persons, and other circum∣stances, and so coulde not at once be set downe and established for euer: (c) 1.5 and yet so left to the or∣der of the church, as that it doe nothing agaynst the rules aforesayd. But howe doth this fol∣lowe, that certaine things are left to the order of the Churche, therfore to make a new ministe∣rie by making an Archebishop, to alter the ministerie that is appoynted, by making a Bishoppe or pastor without a Churche or flocke, to make a Deacon, without appoynting him his Church wherof he is deacon, and where he myght exercise his charge of prouiding for the poore, to abro∣gate cleane both name and office of the eldet, with other more: how I say do these followe that bycause the Church hath power to order certayne things, therefore it hath power to do so of these whiche God hath ordeyned and established: of the which there is no tyme, nor place, nor person, nor any other circumstaunce, whiche can cause any alteration or change? whyche thing shall better appeare both in the Discourse of the whole booke: and especially there where you go about to shew certaine reasons, why there shoulde be other gouernment nowe, than was in the tyme of the Apostles.

Io. Whitgifte.

You sette downe foure rules, whiche you woulde haue all orders and ceremonies of* 1.6 the Church framed by. &c. The first is. 1. Cor. 10. that they offende not any, especially the Chur∣che of God, whiche rule I thinke you take out of these wordes of that Chapter, Tales estote, vt nullum praebeatis offendiculum, neque Iudaeis. &c. be suche as you giue no offence nei∣ther to the Iewes, nor to the Grecians, nor to the Churche of God. But truly they make* 1.7 little or nothing for your purpose, neither yet any other thing conteyned in that chap∣ter. For the Apostle there sheweth how one priuate man should behaue himself to∣wardes an other, yea and towardes the Church in things that may be done, or not* 1.8 be done: he prescribeth no generall rule for the Churche to make orders and ap∣poynte Ceremonies by. For what reason were it that the orders of the Churche shoulde so depende vppon one or two mennes lyking or misselyking, that she should be compelled to alter the same, so ofte as any shoulde therwith be offended? Which must of necessitie come to passe, if thys your rule were generall. For what Churche is voide of some contentious persons, & quarellers, whō no order, no reason, no refor∣matiō* 1.9 can please? It is true that Musculus sayth: There bee some whō no churche can please, hauing alwayes some thing to reproue in other men, and nothing in themselues. The Anabaptistes, the Libertines, the Papistes, and other vnquiet myndes, and

contentious persons are offended with such rites and Ceremonies as the reformed Churches vse: neither is there (as I suppose) any reformed Church voyde of some of these kinde of persons: shall they therfore by and by alter the forme and state? S. Paule in this place would haue no iuste offence giuen to any either faithfull or infi∣dell. For Christians ought to be such, at whose examples, doctrine, and lyfe, no man mighte iustely take any offence. True it is, that in all orders and Ceremonies the Church must take héed that there be no iust offence giuen, but she hath not to depend vpon euery priuate mans iudgement.

Whereas you say, especially the Churche of God, you adde to the wordes of the A∣postle,* 1.10 for he sayth not especially: and if you marke his meaning well, you shall ra∣ther finde that he woulde haue especiall care taken, that there be no offence giuen to such as are not yet come to the Churche (whiche some vnderstand by the Iewes and Grecians) least they shoulde still be withdrawne from the Churche, when as there is no suche feare to be had of those that be alreadie membres of the same.* 1.11

Your seconde rule. 1. Cor, 14. is a good and necessarie rule, not onely alledged by me, b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t allowed and imbraced as moste conueniente: but who shall iudge what is moste comely and the best order? shall euery priuate man, or rather such as haue the chiefe care and gouernment of the Churche? This is a rule prescribed by the Apostle to the Church, wherby she must direct hir orders and gouernment, not to euery pri∣uato person to picke a quarell to disquiet the Church.

The third. 1. Cor. 14. that all be doone to edifying. This sentence can not be applyed ge nerally to all things vsed in the Churche, if we truly interprete the meaning of the Apostle, but to the gifte of toungs, to prayers, and to prophecies, whereof he hath made mētion before. Neither can I perceiue that any learned Interpreter doth take it as a general rule for al rites and ceremonies, but only for the exercises of Praying, singing of Psalmes, interpreting, and Prophecying. For of things vsed in the Church, some per∣taine to instruction, and some to order and comelinesse. For the firste he giueth thys rule, Letal things be done to edifying. For both the first and the second he giueth this, Omnia decenter. &c. Let all things be done decently and in order. Althoughe those ceremo∣nies and rites whiche are appointed by the Churche for order and comlinesse, do edifie* 1.12 as Ceremonies, that is, not of themselues, but per accidens, accidentally, as I haue in an other place declared It is sufficient if the Gouernours of the Church, and suche as haue authoritie to ordeyne suche rites, doe thynke them to be profitable in the re∣spect of the tyme, person, and place: neyther muste euerie priuate mannes iudge∣ment in this case be respected, as it is well sette downe by the Articles agréed vp∣on by the Dutche Churche in London, allowed by M. Beza, and by diuers other re∣formed Churches. It is the thirde article: Quid porrò ad aedificationem faciat. &c. More∣ouer* 1.13 what is profytable to edifye, and what is not, is not to be determined by the iudge∣mente of the common people, nor of some on man, nor yet by the issue of mens acti∣ons. &c.

I can net vnderstande out of what parte of the. 14. to the Romaines, youre laste* 1.14 rule is taken, except it be the sixt, seuen, or eyght verses, out of the whiche I would gladly knowe howe you can deriue any rule to frame ceremonies by, rather than all other actions of man whatsoeuer.

These be your rules to square by, and truly we refuse them not, thoughe some of them pertain nothing to your purpose. The Dutch Churche and the other Churches in the. 11. of those articles before mentioned, touching cōmaunding or forbidding indif∣ferent things, determin thus. Qui propter aliam rationem. &c. They whiche for any other cause either cōmand or forbid at their pleasure, the free vse of indifferēt things, then for one* 1.15 of these three, that is neither for edifying, nor for policy, nor ecclesiastical order, & especially those which do rashly iudge other mēs cōsciences in these matters, offēd heynonsly against god, & against their neighbours. Wherby they séeme to allow any order takē in indiffe∣rent things, if it tend either to edifying, or policie, or ecclesiastical order. But to return to your Reply: y^t which you speak of houre, time, & day of prayer. &c. iustifie my saying: for

they be not expressed in the scripture, as you also now affirm, but left to the ordering (not of euery priuate man) but of the Churche, or such as haue the chief care and go∣uernment of the same, to appoint as they shal thinke most conuenient and agréeable to the generall rules giuen in the scripture for that purpose. Neither is this contrarie to any thing that I haue written. But bothe in this and that also whiche immediatly foloweth, you are contrarie to your self, and directly ad oppositum to the Admonition,* 1.16 As by conference may appeare: for these be your owne wordes, Whereby it lykewyse appeareth, that we denye not but certayne things are lefte to the order of the Churche, bycause they are of that nature which are varyed by tymes, places, persons, & other circumstances, and so coulde not at once be set downe and established for euer. And yet so left to the order of the Church, as that it doe nothyng against the rules aforesayde. What dothe this differ from these wordes of myne: It is also true that nothing in Ceremonies, order, discipline, or gouernmente of the Churche is to be suffered against the word of God? and to this end doe all those authorities and places tende, that I haue alledged for this matter. So that eyther you vnderstand not me, or not your selfe, or else your quarell is againste the person, not the cause. The admonition in this poynt you defende not: for it sayeth directly, that those things only are to be placed in* 1.17 Gods Church, whiche the Lorde himselfe in his worde commaundeth. And although perad∣uenture you will shifte this off, by saying that they meane suche things only as bée commaunded eyther generally or specially, yet the whole discourse of their booke declareth, that their meaning is, that nothing ought to be placed in the Church which is not specially commaunded in the worde of God.

But séeing you and I agrée in this, that the Church hath authoritie to ordeyn ce∣remonies and make Orders, whiche are not expressed in the woorde of God, it re∣mayneth to bée considered wherein we differ: whiche is (as I thinke) in this, that I say, the Churche of England hath lawfully vsed her authoritie, in suche ceremonies & orders, as she hath appointed, & nowe retaineth, and you denie the same: so that your controuersie is against the Church of England, and the Ceremonies and orders vsed therein. And therefore you adde and saye, but howe doth this follow, that certaine things are left to the order of the Churche, therfore to make a newe ministerie. &c. Whereby you giue vs to vnderstande, that the things you misse∣like in this Church, are the office and name of an Archbishop, whiche you vntruly call a newe ministerie, (as it is by me declared in my answere to the Admonition) oure mi∣nisterie, the gouernment of our Church, and (as you say) other more, that is, all thinges at your pleasure. But how iustly and truly this is spoken, shall appeare in their pro∣per places. In the meane tyme it is sufficient to tell you, that you are an vnwoorthy member of this Churche, whiche so vniustly report of it, so vnchristianly slaunder it, and so without groundes and sounde proofes condemne it. There is nothyng by it, or in it altered, which God hath ordeined and established, not to be altered.

Notes

• * 1.1

  1. Cor. 10. 1. Cor. 14.
• (a) 1.2

  You ad, espe∣cially, to the text
• * 1.3

  1. Cor. 14. Rom. 14.
• (b) 1.4

  Here in effect T. C. confesseth the matter in question.
• (c) 1.5

  What is affir∣med otherwise▪ in the answer to the Admonitiō〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• * 1.6

  The first rule of T. C. con∣cerning cere∣monies exa∣mined.
• * 1.7

  1. Co. 10. ve. 32.
• * 1.8

  The orders of the Church depend not vpon euery mans liking, or mislyking.
• * 1.9

  Musculus.
• * 1.10

  T. C. addeth to the texte, to make it serue his turne.
• * 1.11

  The seconde rule of T. C. allowed. The iudge∣mēt of come∣linesse and or∣der, resteth not in euery pri∣uate person. The thirde rule exami∣ned.
• * 1.12

  In the trea∣tise of appare tract. 7.
• * 1.13

  Theses Ecclesia Belgio-ger∣manicae. arti. 3.
• * 1.14

  The last rule pertaineth no more to cere∣monies thā to other actions.
• * 1.15

  Theses Eccles. Belg. art. 11.
• * 1.16

  T. C. is con∣trarie to him∣selfe and to the Admonition, and agreeth with the an∣swere.
• * 1.17

  Fol. 19.