The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

An Exhortation to such as be in authoritie and haue the gouernment of the Church committed vnto them, whether they be Ciuill or Ecclesiasticall Magistrates.

Io. Whitgifte.

COnsidering the strangenesse of the time, the varietie of mens mindes, and the maruellous inclinations in the common sort of persons (especially where the Gospel is most preached) to imbrace newe inuented doctrines and opiniōs, though they tende to the disturbing of the quiet state of the Church, the discrediting and defacing of such as be in au∣thoritie, and the mainteining of licenciousnesse and lewde libertie: I thought it good to set before your eyes the practises of the Anabap∣tistes, their conditions and qualities, the kinde and manner of their beginnings and proceedings, before the broching of their manifolde

and horrible heresies, to the intent that you vnderstanding the same, may the rather in time take heede to such as proceede in like maner: least they being suffred too long, brust out to worke the same effect. I accuse none, onely I suspect the authors of this Admonition, and their fautours: what cause I haue so to do, I refer to your selues to iudge, after that I haue set forth vnto you the Anabaptisticall prac∣tises, euen as I haue learned in the writings of suche famous and learned men, as had themselues experience of them, when they first began in Germanie, and did both personally reason with them, and afterwardes very learnedly write against them: neither will I in this point write one word, which I haue not my author to shew for.

An answere to the Exhortation to the ciuill Magistrates.

T. C. pag. 2. Sect. 1.

IT is more than I thought could haue happened vnto you, once to admitte into your minde, this opinion of Anabaptisme, of your brethren, which haue alwayes had it in as great detestation as your selfe, preached against it, as much as your selfe, hated of the folowers and fauourers of it, as much as your selfe. And it is yet more strange, that you haue not doubted to giue out such slaun∣derous reportes of them, but dare to present such accusations to the holy and sacred seate of iustice, and therby (so much as in you lyeth) to corrupt it, & to call for the sword vpon the innocent, (which* 1.1 is giuen for their maintenance and safetie) that, as it is a boldnesse vntollerable, so coulde I hardly haue thought, that it could haue fallen into any, that had caried but the countenance and name of a professor of the Gospell, much lesse of a Doctor of diuinitie. Before you will ioyne with vs in this cause, you will place vs whether we will or no, in the campe of the Anabaptistes, to the ende you might therby, both withdraw al frō aiding vs, which are godly minded, as for that you fearing (as it seemeth) the insufficiencie of your pen, might haue the sworde, to supply your want other wayes. And if we be founde in their campe, or be such disturbers of the quiet estate of the Church, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉efacers of such as be in authoritie, mainteyners of licenciousnes & lewde libertie (as you do seeme to charge vs with) we refuse not to go vnder those punishments, that some of that wicked sect receiued, for iust recompence of their demerites. You say you will not accuse any, (a) 1.2 I know it is for want of no good will, that you do not accuse them, of whose condemnation & extreme punishment, we might be sure, if your hand were as strong as your harte. But you suspect the authors of the Admoniti∣on, and their fautors. (*) Charitie is not suspitious. Let vs therefore see, whether there be iuste* 1.3 matter to beare out, and to vphold this suspition. You will beare men in hand, that if we be not al∣readie full Anabaptists, yet we are in the way thither, the fotesteps wherby you trace vs, must be considered.

Io. Whitgifte.

There is no cause why you should so maruaile at the matter, all things well consi∣dered, neither do I thinke that the Anabaptistes do so greatly detest and hate them, as you woulde make vs beleue. I do not accuse them of the doctrine of Anabaptisme (as you your selfe in the ende of this section do acknowledge) but I declare that I greatly suspect them, bicause they come so neare vnto the qualities and practises of the Ana∣baptistes, and vse the same beginnings: whether this my suspition be true or no I re∣ferre it to the iudgement of others. If the reportes be slaunderous, let them take their lawfull remedie against me: but if they be most manifest, then it is conuenient that the Magistrates haue vnderstanding thereof. Your great wordes doe not answere the matter. I feare not the insufficiencie of my pen (I thanke God) neither is there any cause why I should: for the truth hath alwayes a plentifull defense, whereas error and schisme is compelled to vse arrogant, opprobrious, and contemptuous speaches to maintaine it selfe.

Of all other T. C. hath least cause to complaine of such extremitie, or to speake in this maner. I haue much more cause to accuse his vndutifull and vnthankefull na∣ture. If Charitie be not suspitious, why do you then thus not suspecte, but directly giue

sentence, that it is not for want of good will, that I doe not accuse them of Anabaptisme? 〈◊〉〈◊〉 it not lawfull for me to suspect, and is it lawfull for you to condemne? You tooke vp∣on you to reproue me before for iudging, and can you fall so sone into it your selfe, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 déede charitie is not suspicious without iust and lawfull causes: but whether the causes be iust or no, let those iudge to whom it doth especially appertaine.

Io. Whitgifte.

The first article. pag 2. Sect. 1.

First Anabaptisme tendeth to this ende, that (in those places where* 1.4 the Gospell hath bin for a time preached, and where Churches be reformed) the Gospell may be hindered, the Churches disquieted, the simple brought to doubt of the Religion that hath bene taughte them: contentious and vnquiet mindes may haue matter to worke on, the preaching of the Gospell become odious: finally that Magi∣strates and such as be in authoritie, may be contemned, and despised of their subiectes and inferiours.

T. C. pag. 2. Sect. 2.

It is all true you heere alleadge of the Anabaptistes: God be praysed there is nothing of it true in vs. If through these questions moued, the Churche be disquieted, the disquietnesse ri∣seth in that the truth and sinceritie which is offered, is not receyued. We seeke it in no tumul∣tuous manner, but by humble sute vnto them, to whom the redresse of things pertayne, and by teaching as our callings will suffer. If all those are to be counted in the way to Anabaptisme, which moue controuersies when the Gospell is preached: (*) 1.5 Then those that taught that the Gentiles weare to be preached vnto, when as the most of the beleeuing Iewes (which likewise preached the Gospell) thoughte otherwise, are to be counted in the way of Anabaptisme. Like∣wise, those that preached that circumcision was not necessarie vnto saluation, when as a greate number of Christians at the first thought it necessarie. Then Maister Zumglius, and Decolam∣padius smelt of Anabaptisme, which went aboute to ouerthrowe diuers things, which Maister Luther helde. I coulde goe further with this, but I content my selfe with these examples. If any be brought in doubt, or hatred of the truth hereby, or any man take occasion to be contentious, it is not in the nature of the doctrine which is taught, but in the corruption of their mindes, nor it is not offence giuen, but taken: nor this doctrine can be no more charged, than the rest of the Gos∣pell, which is a (*) sworde that cutteth a Citie or kingdome in sunder, and setteth a (*) fire where* 1.6 there was none, and putteth contention betwene the father and the sonne. But what is to giue an* 1.7 incurable offence vnto the simple, and matter to the enimie to reioyce in, to all good Christians of teares and weeping, if this be not, to make the worlde thinke, that numbers of those which pro∣fesse the Gospell, are infected with the poyson of Anabaptisme, which can not be touched with the smalest poynt of it? As for the Magistrate, and authoritie, we acknowledge the lawfulnesse, neces∣sitie,* 1.8 and singular commoditie of it, we commende it in our sermons to others, we pray for them, as for those, of whose good or euill estate, hangeth the flourishing or decay of the common wealth, and Church both. We loue them as our Fathers and Mothers, we feare them, as our Lordes and Maisters, and we obey them in the Lord, and for the Lorde. If there be any thing, wherein we do not according to that which is commaunded, it is, bycause we can not be perswaded in our con∣sciences, that we may so doe (whereof we are readie to render a reason out of the word of God) and if that will not serue, forthwith to submitte our selues, to that punishment, that shall be awarded against vs. And herein, we first call the Lorde God to witnesse of our meaning, and then we re∣ferre our selues to the consciences of all men in the sight of God.

Io. Whitgifte.

Nothing is here sayde of you in the defense of the authors of the Admonition, but the Anabaptistes will say the same in theirs: Let the like effectes procéeding from the like causes, and in like manner iudge the likelyhoode betwixte the Anabaptistes and them. One of the chiefe notes that are giuen of Anabaptistes by Zuinglius in his* 1.9 booke called Ecclesiastes, and in his other bookes where he speaketh of them, is, that they sowe discorde and contention in those Churches where the Gospell hath bene truely prea∣ched, and that about externall matters, as it may more at large appeare in the seconde edition of my answere to the Admonition, And tell me I praye you what Churche

hath any of them setled themselues in, but in such, wherin the Gospell hath bene well* 1.10 planted before? or in what place haue they for any time remayned, where they haue not with contention and factions troubled not that place onely, but the whole coun∣trey rounde aboute in lyke manner? Surely if they preached doctrine necessarie to saluation (that is the Gospell) and in those places wherein the Gospell is not recey∣ued, then if contentions shoulde arise, the cause were not to be ascribed vnto them, but vnto their hearers onely: but seyng they ran not teache the Gospell more sin∣cerely than it is taught, and seyng the matters they contend for, be not of such neces∣sitie, that the Churches should for them be disquieted, seyng also that they séeke refor∣mation (as they call it) neither in due time, due place, nor before méete persons: And finally, seyng contentions are raised by them in those places where the Gospell is re∣ceiued, I sée not howe they can auoyde the iust accusation of contentieus persons, and disturbers of the peace of the Church. For if you aske of the time: the Admonition was published after the Parliament (to the which it was dedicated) was ended. If you* 1.11 speake of the place: it was not exhibited in Parliament (as it ought to haue bene) but spred abroade in corners, and sent into the Countrey. If you inquire of the persons: it came first to theyr handes who had least to doe in reforming. Likewyse your ser∣mons of these matters: when preache you them? surely euen in this troublesome* 1.12 and tumultuous tyme, when there is especiall occasion to moue men to prayer, to vnitie, and to the embracing of the substance of Religion, which by all meanes is sought to be ouerthrowne. Where preache you them? euen where they doe least good and most harme: in places where the Gospell hath bene alreadie planted, yea and of∣ten times in secrete conuenticles and corners, which the truth neuer séeketh, but vp∣on extreme necessitie: and before whom preache you? not before such as haue autho∣ritie to redresse, but before the common people, who (although some of them be godly and sober) yet for the most parte be greatly delighted with nouelties, loue such schole∣maisters as teach libertie, and continually inueigh against superiors. All this beyng true, as you can not denie it to be true, there is no cause why you shoulde be offended with the setting downe of the first article.

To preach the Gospell is a thing necessary vnto saluation: to preach that circum∣cision and suche like ceremonies be not matters of saluation, is a necessarie doctrine, & of the substance of Religiō. Zuinglius and Oecolampadius and other differed frō Lu∣ther in some matters of substance, and yet did they orderly and lawfully with the con∣sent of their Magistrates procéed in these matters: wherfore these examples helpe you nothing: for the matters you contend for, be not of y^e same nature, neither do you pro∣céede in like maner. The same answere may be made to all other like examples, that you can vse in these matters. But bicause I will not leane onely to mine owne iudge∣ment in this case, let it not gréeue you if I set downe M. Zuinglius opinion touching the same, who in his booke called Ecclesiastes, speaking against the Anabaptistes saith on this sort, If they were sent of God, & endued with the spirit of God, they woulde haue* 1.13 construed in the best parte these externall things, which be not as yet rightly reformed, they woulde haue become all things to all men, that they might haue wonne all to Christ. &c. M. Caluine also in his booke against y^e Anabaptists saith, that whē vnder the colour of a* 1.14 zeale of perfectiō, we cā beare no imperfectiō, either in the body, or in the members of the Church, it is the deuill which puffeth vs vp with pride, and seduceth vs with hypocrisie to make vs forsake Christs flocke.

Whatsoeuer you alleage for the saluing of your contentious doctrine out of y^e. 10. of* 1.15 Mathew verse. 34. y^e same do y^e Anabaptists vse for their excuse also, as Zuinglius testi∣fieth in his Ecclesiastes, his words be these. Their doctrine bringeth forth nothing but con∣tention & tumults, in the defense wherof they alleage that Christ said, I came not to sende peace but the sword: to whō we answere, that this sword hath no place among the faithful:* 1.16 for it diuideth the faithfull frō infidels: but they make contentiō and brawling among the* 1.17 faithfull, & that for externall things. Hetherto Zuinglius: which is a sufficiēt answere to you also vsing y^e same excuse, & mouing cōtentiōs in like maner & matters. The same sense haue the words of Christ. Luc. 12. ver. 49. for the Gospel is a sword that deuideth the faithfull from infidels, but not the faithfull among themselues.

It is the greatest offence to the simple, and most worthy of Christian teares and weeping, that men shoulde cloake and colour their arrogancie, contention, and errors, with a false pretence of godly zeale for the purytie of fayth, the sinceritie of the Gospell, and the re∣formation* 1.18 of the Churche, as Maister Bucer in. 4. ad Ephe. saith that somedyd euen in his time.

What you thinke and teach of the authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate will appeare here∣after more plainely in some other partes of your booke, your additions to your pro∣testation of allowing Magistrates, and of your obedience to them, may colour your abridging of their authoritie: For if they commaunde you any thing wherein you intende not to obey, you may say, they commaunded not that in the Lorde, and that it is against your conscience: These exceptiōs or excuses be very general, & may with you (who in all things pretende the worde of God, and conscience) strayghten the autho∣ritie of the Magistrate to your owne purpose. But hereof we shall something more playnely (although not fully) vnderstande your opinion hereafter. The same Prote∣station that you make, it may appeare that the Anabaptistes made also in the begin∣ning, as Zuinglius declareth in his Ecclesiastes.

I. VV. The seconde Article. pag. 2. Sect. 2.

Secondly, they bitterly inueyed agaynst ministers and prea∣chers of the Gospell, saying, that they were not ordinarily and law∣fully* 1.19 called to the ministerie, bicause they were called by the Magi∣strate, and not by the people: that they preached not the Gospel tru∣ly, that they were Scribes and Pharisies: that they had not those thinges which Paule required in a minister. 1. Tim. 3. That they did not themselues those things, which they taughte vnto other: that they had stipends, and laboured not, and therefore were ministers of the belly, that they could not teache truly, bicause they had great liuings, and liued wealthily and pleasantly, that they vsed not their authoritie in excommunication, that they attributed to muche vnto the Magistrate.

T. C. pag. 3. &. 4.

There was neuer Heretike so abhominable, but that he had some truthe to cloke his falshode, should his vntruthes and blasphemies, driue vs from the possession of that, whiche he holdeth truely? no not the Diuell him selfe, saying, that God had giuen his Angels charge ouer his, can thereby wring this sentence from vs, why we should not bothe beleeue it, and speake it, beeing a necessarie truthe to beleeue and speake. You may as well say, we are Anabaptistes, bycause we say, there is but one God, as they dyd, one Christ as they dyd. &c. And heere I will giue the Reader a taste of your Logike, that you make so muche of in your booke. * 1.20 The Anabaptistes say that the Churches should choose their ministers, and not the Magistrate, and you say so, ther∣fore you are Anabaptistes, or in the way to Anabaptisme. The Anabaptistes complayned, that the Christians vsed not their authoritie in excommunication, and so do you complayne, therefore you are Anabaptistes, or in the way to them. I will not lay to your charge, that you haue not learned Aristotles Priorums, which sayth, it is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 as often as the meane in any syllo∣gisme, is consequent to bothe the extremes. But haue you not learned that which Seton, or any other halfepeny Logyke telleth you, that you can not conclude affirmatiuely in the seconde figure? And of thys sorte are euery one of your surmises contayned in thys treatise, whiche you entitle, an exhortation. &c. And if I lyked, to make a long booke of little matter (as you doe) I woulde thus gather your argumentes out of euery braunche whyche you ascribe, as common vnto vs with the Anabaptistes, as you make adoe, vpon euery place, whiche is quoted by the Admoni∣tion to the Parliament. But answere, I pray you, in good faythe are you of that iudgemente, that the ciuill Magistrate should ordayne ministers? (1) 1.21 Or that there should be no excommuni∣cation, as it was, and is vsed in certayne the Heluetian Churches? If you be, your controuer∣sie is not so muche wyth vs, as wyth the Bishops, whiche bothe call ministers, and excom∣municate. If you be not, why is that Anabaptisticall in vs, whiche is Christian and Ca∣tholike in you? And why do you go about, to bring vs in hatred for those things, which you do no more allowe, than those whō you thus endeuour to discredite? we do not say that there is no law∣full, or no ordinarie calling in Englande, for we do not denie, but that he maye be lawfully called, which is not ordinarily, as M. Luther, Melancthon, Zuinglius, Decolampadius. And there be

(2) 1.22 places in England, where the ministers be called by their parishes in such sort, (3) 1.23 as the exam∣ples of the scripture doe shewe to haue been done, before the eldership & gouernment of the Church be established. I knowe not any, that sayth, that the Gospell is not truely preached in Englande, and by those also that are not of the same iudgement, that the Admonition to the Parliament is of. But if it be sayde, that it is not generally of cuery one of them, and in all poynts, or not so often, or not there where their duetie byndeth them, and they are called vnto, or not so sincerely, or without mixture, as it ought to be, then there is nothing sayde, but that, which we feare, may be too easely proued. It it be sayde of some, that in certayne there are founde some of those things, that were reprehended in the Phariseis, what is that to proue, that they be Anabaptistes that speake of it. Your selfe in one place of your booke, call the authors of the Admonition, and their fauourers, Phariseis, who doe all things to be seene of menne, and therefore they sighe, and holde downe their heades. &c. And this you speake, agaynst them that preache the Gospell. Therefore by your reason you giue sentence of Anabaptisine agaynst your selfe. You promised you woulde not write one worde, whereof you had not your author for it. First you haue (4) 1.24 peruerted the meanyng of the Anabaptistes, in that wherein they acculed the godly Ministers, that they were not according to that which is written in the thirde of the. 1. Epist. to Timothe, and all bycause you woulde multiply the number of your likelyhoodes. For they charged the Ministers, by that place, of dis∣solutdnesse and losenesse of lyfe, and corruption of manners, and we allcadge it to proue that they should be able to teache and instructe, agaynst the dumbe Ministerie that is abroade. But that which followeth, vttereth not onely great (5) 1.25 vntruth and falsification of the author, but sheweth a minde desirous to slaunder, and sorie (as it seemeth) that those which you so greuously discre∣dite, are no lyker the Anabaptistes, than they be. I wyll set downe the wordes, as they are writ∣ten in the. 102. leafe, that it may appeare howe faythfully you haue dealte. Libere enim dicunt con∣cionatores qui sripendium accipiunt, non esse veros Deiministros, neque posse docere ueritatem, sed esse uentris ministros, qui o〈1 line〉〈1 line〉iose accipiant ingentia stipendia, ex illis rebus, quae simulachris immolatae fuerunt, & ex diuitijs splendide & luxuriose uiuant, cum tamen Christus dixit, gratis accepistis, gratis date, & prohibuit duas tunicas, peram & pecuniam habere, preterea Paulum aiunt manibus suis labo∣rasse, & mandasse reliquis, ut idem faciant, itaque concludunt nulla debere stipendia habere sui officii, sed laborare & gratis ministrare, & quia hoc non faciunt, non posse ipsos ueritatem docere. They say* 1.26 freely (speaking of the Anabaptistes) that the preachers which take stipendes, can not be the true ministers of God, nor teach the truthe, but are ministers of the bellie, which to liue idlely take gret stipendes, of those things which were offered to images, and do of their riches liue gorgeously, and riotousely, when notwithstanding Christ sayde, ye haue receyued freely, giue freely, and forbad thē to haue two coates, or a scrippe, or money. Besydes that, they say that Paule laboured with his owne handes, and gaue commaundement, to the rest of the Ministers, that they shoulde doe so, and therefore they conclude, that they should haue no stipende for their office, but labour and minister for nought, and bicause they do not so, they cannot teach the truthe. Nowe let all men iudge, whether it be one thing, to say, that they ought not to haue stipendes, that labour not, or to saye as the Ana∣baptistes sayde, that it was not lawfull to haue any stipende, or to say, they could not teach truely, bicause they had great liuings, or bicause they had any liuings at all. Although I neuer read nor heard any of those that you meane, say, that those which had great stipendes and liuings could not preach truely. It may be that diuers haue sayd that it were meete, the ministers should be con∣tent, with competent stipendes, and that the ouerplus of that might go to the supplie of the wants of other ministers liuings, and to the maintenaunce of the poóre, or of the vniuersitie, and that that excesse, is the cause of diuers disorders in those persons, that haue it, but that they could not preach truely (when they preached) which had great liuings, I for my parte neuer hearde it. I thinke you would not be exempted from reprehension of that, wherein you faulte, and therefore I knowe not what you meane by these words (that they dyd not those things themselues which thei taught others) we professe no such perfectiō in our liues, but that we are oftentimes behind a great deale∣in doing of that which is taught to be our dueties to doe, and therefore thinke it necessarie that we should be reprehended, and shewed our faultes. Whereas you say that the Anabaptistes accused the ministers, for giuing to much to the Magistrates, I haue shewed what we giue, and if it be to little, shewe vs and we will amende our fault. I assure you it greeueth me, and I am euen in the beginning wearie, of turning vp this (6) 1.27 dung, and refuting so baine and friuolous sclanders, with out all shewe and face of truthe, and therfore I will be briefe in the rest.

Io. Whitgifte.

I speake not here of the doctrine of the Anabaptists which is the certaine note wher∣by they may be knowne: but of their other qualities and manner of talke and Prea∣ching. The wordes be M. Bullingers, they be not mine. The argumentes framed, be yours, and neither his nor mine.

Your disciples magnifie you, bicause your vsuall talke both publike and priuate, is* 1.28 against the Ministers of the Church, against their calling, against their preaching, a∣gainst their life. &c. which you doe not to reforme them (for you doe it in their absence and to the people) but to deface them, and to discredite them: not to promote the Gos∣pell (which they preache as diligently and syncerely as you doe) but to bring them in∣to hatred with the people, whereby you might the rather preuaile in your enterpri∣ses:

not to reforme their manners (for they maye compare wyth you in all kynde of honestie and dutie) but to erpresse your malice and wrathe: for that whiche Zuin∣glius* 1.29 in Elench. contra Anabap. speaketh of them, (It is melancholie and wrathe, not true zeale of whiche they glorie) maye be truly verified of you, and thereof let thys your booke be iudge.

Nowe if I say, that in this poynte you agrée with the Anabaptistes, I doe not therefore straighteway conclude that you are Anabaptistes: but thys I conclude, that you are not for suche inuemues to bée estéemed as more pure in deede than your brethren, nor they thorough suche slaunde〈1 line〉〈1 line〉os speaches of yours to bée discredi∣ted: bycause herein you speake or practise nothyng agaynste the true Ministers of the woorde of God, but that whyche the Anabaptistes haue doone in the selfe same forme and manner before you. And that these be qualities woorthie to bée obserued in the Anabaptistes, and suche as procéede in lyke manner, it may ap∣peare not onely by this obseruation of M. Buliinger, but: of other learned and Godlie menne also, that haue written agaynste them, and giuen notes of their qualities. Zuinglius in his Booke before named sayth, That they speake euyll bothe* 1.30 of the Ciuill Magistrate, and of the ministers of the Churche, that if at anye tyme eyther of them accordyng to theyr office, reproue them, then they streyghtwaye saye that therefore they bee enimyes vnto them, bycause they tell them of theyr faul∣tes: And in his Ecclesiast. he sayeth thus of them 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. They so slaunder, reuyle, and backebyte the Ministers of the woorde, and of the Churche, that they oughte to be suspected and hated of all Godlye menne: euen for theyr slaunderous and curssed speakyng. But theyr ende and purpose is, by thys meanes to wynne credite vnto them selues, and to discredite suche as sette them selues agaynste them, and detecte theyr erroures. The lyke saying he hathe in hys booke De. Baptismo. To the same effecte also speaketh Gastius of them in his Booke De exordio & erroribus Catabap.* 1.31 where among other sentences he hath thys: Theyr talke vttereth nothyng else but reprehension of the Ministers of the worde, and libertie in externall things. Now iudge I praye you, whether this hath ben a qualitie woorthie to bée obserued in the Ana∣baptistes or no?

I doe not speake agaynste suche as modestly and accordyng to the rule of the Apostle. 1. Tunoth. 5. doo reproue any, but agaynste those that haue nothing else in theyr mouthes, but inuectiues agaynste the Ministers of the woorde, obseruyng neyther place, tyme, nor anye other circumstances, whome I still say in this poynt to be fitly compared to the Anabaptists.

Nowe whether it bée my Logike, or yours that you gyue a taste of in thys place∣lette the learned Reader iudge, to whome also I committe the tryall of thys spy∣rite of yours, whyche bursteth out in suche vnséemely manner, vpon the consy∣deration of your owne deuysed argumentes, to féede your contempte and disdayne with. In déede if you make argumentes where I make none, and if you frame them as it pleaseth you, no meruayle it is though you make a long booke, and cause your Reader to beleeue, that my Logicke is as simple as you woulde haue it. But deale with mée vprightly and honestly, and then set downe my vnskilfulnesse, and spare not, as I trust you woulde doo to the vttermost in euery poynt, if you could, séeing that you doe it where there is no occasion at all offered vnto you by mée, but imagined of youre selfe. Well, let these quarelles goe, more méete to be among boyes than among men. Gratia Dei sum quod sum, neyther haue I any thing but that whiche I haue receyued of him from whom commeth all good things.

Bothe of the election of ministers, and of excommunication what I thynke, I will declare God willing in their proper places. The woordes here by me alledged (as I haue saide) are Master Bullingers, and they be truly spoken, and to good purpose as there it shall appeare. In the meane while I referre you for that of the Magi∣strate in electing of ministers, to the 87. and 88. leaues of that his Booke Aduersus Anabap. and for that of excommunication to the. 233. and. 234. leafe of the same Booke.

You denye, that you saye, there is no lawfull or no ordinarye callyng of Mynisters in Englande, whych is a strange hearyng to mée: for wherevnto then tendeth all that whych is wrytten in your Booke touching the electing and calling of Ministers? or* 1.32 that which is written in the fyrst Admonition Folio. 9▪ where they say in playne ter∣mes, that wee haue neyther a ryghte Ministerie of God, nor a righte gouernement of hys Churche. And Folio. 34. 35. 36. &c Folio 157. where they saye, that thys prescripte forme of Seruice vsed in this Churche of Englande mayntayneth an vnlawfull▪ Ministerie: or that whyche is so bytterly spoken agaynst the Booke of orderyng▪ Ministers and Deacons, whyche they call the Pontificall? But you saye that he may be law∣fully called, whyche is not ordinarilye. I woulde haue you to speake playnely. Is our calling to the Ministerie here in England lawful, but not ordinarie? If it be law∣full, then is it not agaynste the woorde of God, neyther is there any Lawe in the Scriptures to the contrarie, as you woulde make vs to beléeue. But tru∣ly. I thynke that you were not here well aduysed, or else haue you some suttle meaning, for you adde immediately, that there be places in Englande where the Mini∣sters are called by theyr Parishes. &c. So that I suppose you meane, that in some Pa∣rishes of Englande, there is a lawfull callyng of Ministers: if it bée so, then is it not withstanding truly sayde, that you denie the maner of callyng Ministers in this Churche of Englande to be lawfull: for that maner of callyng is not to be ascribed to this Churche, which is vsed in some conuenticles and secrete congregations, but that which is allowed by publike and common authoritie.

Your distinction of lawfull and ordinarie is not simply good, for whatsoeuer is law∣full* 1.33 in a Church established, that is ordinarie: I think that euen very cōmon reason dothe teache this to be true. Wherfore certaynly if our ministerie bée lawfull, it is ordinarie. If any Parishe in Englande doe electe or call their ministers other∣wyse than the orders and Lawes of thys Churche dothe permitte, I can not sée howe that Parishe can excuse it selfe of schisme, and I thinke verilye, that suche Pa∣rishes ought to bée looked too in tyme.

I doe not well vnderstande▪ what you meane by these wordes, in suche sorte as the examples of the Scripture doe shewe to haue bene doone, before the Eldership and go∣uernmente of the Churche bee established. What examples bée these? you quote no places where to fynde them▪ Or when was the gouernmente of the Churche and Eldershyp established? If you had more playnly expressed these two thyngs, wée myghte haue the better vnderstoode youre meanyng. But belyke these Parishes doo not call theyr Ministers in all poyntes accordyng to the rule that you woulde haue prescribed, and therfore you make an Interim of it, vntill your gouernment be fully finished. This is your dealyng to allowe of all things doone out of order: yea though it bée against your owne order, so that it tende to the derogation of pu∣blike and common order.

Whether they saye, that the Gospell is not truely preached in this Churche of Eng∣lande* 1.34 or no, looke in the whole discourse of their booke: and in the seconde Admoni∣tion page. 6. where you may fynde these wordes, I saye that we are so scarce come to the outwarde face of a Churche ryghtely reformed, that althoughe some truthe be taught by some preachers, yet no preacher maye without greate daunger of the Lawes, vtter all truth compri∣sed in the booke of God, it is so circumscribed and wrapte within the compasse of suche statutes, suche penalties, suche imunctions, suche Aduertisementes, suche Articles, suche sober Caueats,* 1.35 and suche manyfolde pamphlets, that in manner it dothe but peepe out from behynd the screene. What say you to these wordes? how can you salue them?

Whether they generally call all the Ministers of the Gospell which be not on their secte Phariseys or no, lette the whole discourse of bothe the Admonitions iudge, and that Pamphlet entituled, An exhortation to the Bishops to deale brotherlye with theyr brethren: In my answer to which pāphlet, I proue that this name Pharisey doth much more aptely agrée vnto the Authors thereof, and suche lyke, than to the Bishops and other ministers, whome they so often call by that name, and so odiously compare them together in that pamphlet.

I must once tell you agayne, that I make no argumentes here, I doe but onely compare their qualities and conditions: I haue performed my promise, if I 〈◊〉〈◊〉 not, shewe me wherin. I peruert not the meaning of the Anabaptistes▪ but set down the verie woordes of M. Bullinger worde for worde, without any addition, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣tion, or alteration: it had bene well if you had examined the places better.

Touchyng the falsification, and vntruthe you charge mée with, I thynke you be not in good earnest, it is but bycause you could no longer temper your heate: for you make manie of these outcryes, but I suppose you vse them only as meanes to caste vp your melancholie, whyche you call zeale. Whatsoeuer I there speake of the Anabaptistes, I fyndeit in the same forme of woordes in those leaues of M Bul∣lingers booke, whiche I haue quoted in the Margent. Pervse with a little more di∣ligence Fol. 18. where he hath these wordes: Quod stipendia babeant, & non laborent, atque ideo ventris ministri sunt, and the. 102. And if you fynd not there word for worde all this that I haue here spoken, touchyng the stipendes and liuings of ministers, and in the same forme of wordes, then vse your hotte Rhetorike: but I knowe they* 1.36 be there, and you reproue you can not tell what. If this so greately trouble you, I wil tell you what Zuinglius also sayth of this matter in his Ecclesi istes, where he spea∣king of Anabaptists sayth thus: They teach that suche can not preache the Gospell syncerely, whiche haue benefices, but their hope is to haue the true Pastors expelled, that they may succeede in their places, and yet they publikely protest that they seeke for no li∣uing. Nowe whether you or your men agrée with them in this poynt or no, I ney∣ther* 1.37 denie nor affirme: if you be prickte, I can not blame you thoughe you kicke. Neither do I say, that those ought to haue stipends which labour not, I do but report Bullingers wordes of the Anabaptistes, I woulde haue no man exempted from due re∣prehension: I only reporte this to shewe the malitious spirites of the Anabaptistes agaynst the ministers of the woorde, that it maye be knowne of what societie they may bée suspected to bée, whose talke is wholly bente against the Ministers of the woorde of God.

That you giue too little to Magistrates it shall be shewed in place.

Though you bée wearie, it is no meruayle, for it gréeueth you to bée touched so narrowly: And surely if you vse no cleanlyer termes than you doe in this place, or continue in pouring oute your choler in suche aboundance, you will tyre mée also, or euer I make an ende.

Whatsoeuer I haue here spoken of the Anabaptistes is moste true, and therefore no slaunder.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 3. Article. Pag. 2. Sect. 3.

Thirdly, the whole reformation that was then in the Churche displeased them, as not spirituall inough and perfect. For the Sa∣cramentes* 1.38 were not (as they sayd) syncerely ministred, things were not reduced to the Apostolike Churche, excommunication not right∣ly vsed, no amendement of lyfe appeared since the preaching of the Gospel: therfore the Church then reformed no more the true Chur∣che of Christ, than was the Papisticall Churche.

T. C. Pag. 4. Sect. 1.

Wee prayse God for thys reformation, so farre foorthe, as it is agreeable vnto the worde of God, wee are gladde the woorde of God is preached, that the Sacramentes are ministred∣that whiche is wantyng, we desire it maye be added, that whiche is ouermuche, cut off, and wee are not ashamed to professe, y^t we desire it may be done according to the institution of the Churches

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Io. Whitgifte.

The. 6. Article Pag 3. Sect. 3.

Sixthly, they pretended in all their doings, the glorie of God,* 1.39 the edifying of the Churche, and the puritie of the Gospell.

T. C. pag. 5. Sect. 3.

We pretende it not, but we propounde it, and herein we call God to witnesse agaynst our owne soules.

Io. Whitgifte.

I can not let you to applie things to your owne selues at your pleasure. Volenti, non* 1.40 fit iniuria. I sette that of the Anabaptistes down to this end, that men may vnderstande not al those to séek the glorie of God. &c. which pretend the same: bicause y^e Ana∣baptistes haue those pretences, and yet they séeke nothing lesse. That the Anabaptistes, and suche lyke disturbers of the Church haue those pretences, not only M. Bullinger in those places by me quoted, but other godlie and learned men also do testifie. Zuin∣glius in his Ecclesiast. sayth that they boast: that whatsoeuer they speake, they speake it of* 1.41 zeale, being moued with the spirite. Gastius sayth in his booke De exordio & erroribus ca∣tabap. that vnder the pretence of zeale, they subuert whatsoeuer other men haue buylded.* 1.42 Bucer in. 4. ad Ephes. sayth, that Satan couereth and cloketh arrogancie, selfeloue, enuye,* 1.43 and hatred, with a false pretence of godlie zeale for the puritie of faith, for the sinceritie of Christes doctrine, and for the saluation of the Church. It is expedient for men to know this, else might they thorough simplicitie easily be deceyued.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 7. Article. Pag. 3. Sect. 4.

They earnestly cryed out against pride, gluttonie. &c. They spake* 1.44 much of mortification: they pretended great grauitie, they sighed muche: they seldome or neuer laughed: they were verie austere in reprehendyng: they spake gloriouslye. To be shorte, Magna & varia erat ipsorum bypocrisis, they were greate hypocrites, thereby to winne authoritie to their heresie, among the simple and ignorant people.

T. C. Pag. 5. Sect. 4.

If you doe note these thinges (which we say not) we wil rather doo them with the Anabap∣tistes, than leaue them vndone with you. Of our simple heart and meaning in them, we haue be∣fore* 1.45 protested. In the meane season, we will paciently abyde, vntill the Lord bring our *rightu∣ousnesse in this behalfe vnto lyght, and our iust dealing as the noone day. Touching our sighing and seldome or neuer laughyng, you giue occasion after to speake of it, vnto the whiche place, I reserue the answere.

Io. Whitgifte.

I doe not write this of them bicause I woulde haue men absteyne from repro∣uing vice, and exhorting to godlinesse, but to lette it be vnderstoode, that these be no certaine proofes of the veritie of the doctrine, being commonly vsed in most vehement sort of the heretikes and sectaries to allure the people vnto them, and to winne cre∣dite vnto their opinions.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 8. Article. Pag. 3. Sect. 5.

If they were at any tyme punished for their errors, they greatly* 1.46 complained that nothing was vsed but violence, that the truth was oppressed, that innocent and godly men which would haue al things reformed according to the word of God, could not be heard, nor haue libertie to speak. That Zuinglius stopped their mouths, & defended his cause, not by the word of God, but by y^e authoritie of the magistrate.

T. C. Page 5. Sect. 5.

We are no Stoikes, that we should not be touched with the feeling of our greefes, if our com∣plaints be excessiue, shew them and we will abridge them. what errours we defend, and how you maynteyne your parte by the word of God, it will appeare in the discourse of your Booke.

Io. Whitgifte.

And yet your complaint in this point, as it is without iust cause, so is it common to you with the Anabaptists, and therefore no true note of the veritie of your doctrine, nor any sufficient cause why you should therefore be more gratious vnto the people. The chéefest thing that the common sort haue to say in your defense is, that you be persecuted, put from your liuings &c. Which if it were altogither true, as it is re∣ported, yet your complaint is no other, than the Anabaptists is, and therefore no more to be alleadged for the iustifying of you, than the like is for the iustifying of them.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 9. Article. Page. 3 Sect. 6.

They found great faulte with the baptising of children, and cere∣monies* 1.47 vsed in the same: But afterward did vtterly condemne it.

T. C. Page. 5. Sect. 6.

Their finding fault without cause in the ceremonies of baptisme, cannot barre vs from fin∣ding fault where there is cause. We allow of the baptisme of children and hope through the good∣nesse* 1.48 of God, that it shall be farre from vs, euer to condemne it. But to let your slaunderous tong go (all the strings whereof ye seeme to haue losed, that it may the more freely be throwen ont, ano walke against the innocent) where, where is the modestie you require in other, of not entring to iudge of things vnknowen, which dare insinuate to the Magistrate, that it is like they will con∣demne childrens baptisme, which do baptise them, preach they shoulde be baptised, and which did neuer by sillable, letter, or countenance, mislike of their baptisme.

Io. Whitgifte.

Can you denie any thing to be true that I haue spoken of the Anabaptists in thys article? or can you denie but that your selues also mislike the ceremonies vsed in bap∣tisme in this Church? yea and the same that they did? what followed in them is mani∣fest: what wil follow in you God knoweth: I iudge not. What be my suspicions is de∣clared in my answer to the Admonition, which if you haue truly taken away, I am satisfyed: but I am afraid the contrarie will appeare in your booke.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 10. 11. 12. Page. 3. Sect. 7.

They taught that the ciuill Magistrate hathe no authoritie in* 1.49 Ecclesiasticall matters, and that he ought not to medle in causes of religion and faith.

Page 4. Sect 1.

That no man oughte to be compelled to faith and to religion.* 1.50

That Christians oughte to punish faultes, not with imprison∣ment, not with the sword, or corporall punishment, but only with ex∣communication.* 1.51

T. C. Page. 5. Sect. 7.

I answer as vnto the fifth, and for further answer, I will referre the reader to those places, where occasion shall be giuen to speake of those things ag ayne.

Io. Whitgifte.

And I referre my selfe also to the Admonitions, and to your owne booke, and to my seuerall answers which shall be made touching these matters.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 13. Article. Page. 4. Sect. 3.

They complayned much of persecution.* 1.52

T. C. Pa. 5. Sect. 8.

This is a braunch of the eyght, and added for nothing else but to make vp the tale.

Io. Whitgifte.

And yet a worthy note, else shoulde it not haue bin so often repeated, not only of Bullinger, but of other godly men also, as of Zuinglius, Gastius, and others.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 14. Article. Pa 4. Sect. 4.

They bragged that they would defend their cause not only with* 1.53 words, but with the shedding of their bloud also.

T. C. Pa. 5. Sect. vlt.

We feare no shedding of bloud in hir maiesties dayes, for mainteining that which we hope we shall be able to proue out of the word of God, and wherein we agree with the best reformed chur∣ches, but certaine of the thinges whiche we stand vpon are such, as that if euery heare of our head were a life, we ought to aford them for the defense of them. We brag not of any the least abilitie of suffering, but in the feare of God, we hope of the assistance of God his holy spirit to abide, whatso∣euer hee shall thinke good to trie vs with, either for profession of this, or any other hys truthe whatsoeuer.

Io. Whitgifte.

Thanks be vnto God, there is no cause why you should feare. But wherefore do you then beate any such suspition into the peoples heads? or why do you beast of that that you know is nothing néere you? and whiche no man once goeth about to offer vnto you? what meane you in the. 59. page of the second Admonition to say that there is a persecution of poore Christians, and the professours of the Gospell, suffered, not farre vnlike* 1.54 to the sixe articles, which crafty heads deuised, and brought the king hir noble father vnto, as they would do hir maiestie now? Can any thing be spoken more vntruly, more suspiciously, nay I may rightly say, more seditiously?

If there be such things in controuersie betwixt vs, that require defense euen vnto* 1.55 death, yea and that if euery heare of our head wer a life, we ought to afoord them for the defense of the same, then truly is there greater matters in hand, than euery body doth consider of. Hitherto it hath bin the common opinion, that our contention was but about tri∣fles, about externall things, such as might admit alteration, and were not of the sub∣stance of religion: but if this be true that you here set downe, belike a great sort haue bin hitherto deceiued. Truly if the matters be of such weight that they require de∣fense of life, you are much to blame that haue not hitherto made them better kno∣wen. I trust we shall in this booke vnderstand what they are. In the meane time the stout bragges that are vsed by some, might well be spared: but we haue oftentimes séene greate cloudes and small rayne, and heard great crackes of thunder, and (thanks be vnto God) small harme done. Neither are you more to be credited for these boa∣stings, than were the Anabaptists for vsing the like.

Io. Whitgifte▪

The. 15. Article. Page. 4. Sect. 5.

Their whole intent was to make a separation and a schisme, and* 1.56 to withdraw men from their ordinary Churches and pastours, and therfore most odiously they inueied against such pastours, and sought by all meanes to discredite them.

T. C. Page▪ 6. Sect. 1.

We make no separation from the Church, we go about to separate al those things, that offend in the Church, to the end that we being al knit to the sincere truth of the Gospel, might afterwards in the same bond of truth, be more neerely and closely ioyned togither. We endeuour that euery Church hauing a lawfull pastoure, whiche is able to instruct, all mighte be ranged to their proper Churches, whereas diuerse, vnlesse they go to other than their owne parishes, are like to heare few sermons in the yeare, so farre are we from withdrawing men from their ordinarie churches and pastours. Let him that inueyeth against any pastoure without good cause, beare the punishment: as for inueying againste heaping of liuing vpon liuing, and ioyning steeple to steeple, and non re∣sidence and such ambition and tyrannie, as beareth the sway in diuers ecclesiasticall persons, if the price of the pacification, be the offending of the Lorde, it is better you be displeased, than God bee offended.

Io. Whitgifte,

Whether you make a separation or no, and a schisme in the Churche, let all men iudge: and whether you draw the people from their ordinarie pastours or no, let the secrete conuenticles (for I can call them no better) vsed not only in the citie, but in other places of the countrey also testify: whether iustly, and as it becommeth you, you en∣uey against such pastours and preachers as mislike your opinion, and séeke their discre∣dite, let the bitter inuectiues in sermons before the people, when none of them is pre∣sent, the common table talke, bothe your Admonitions, the firste and the second, yea and this your passing modeste booke declare. Truly this article and euery content in it, was neuer more truly verefyed of the Anabaptists, than it is, and may be of you.

What you haue to say against the ambition and tyrannie of any such as you especial∣ly shoote at, we shall sée in your particulars, I trust you will speake al you know, and more to, else you do degenerate.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 16. Article. Page. 4. Sect. 6.

There was no staye in them, but daily they inuented new opini∣ons,* 1.57 and did runne from errour to errour.

T. C. Page. 6. Sect. 2.

We stay ourselues within the bonds of the word of God: we professe our selues to be of the number of those, which should * grow in knowledge, as we do in age, and which labor that the I∣mage* 1.58 of God may be dayly renued in vs, not only in holynesse of life, but also in * knowledge of the truth of God, and yet I know no question moued, which hath not bin many yeares before in other churches reformed, holden as truth, and therefore practised, and in our Church also haue bin some yeares debated.

Io Whitgifte

Thus muche might they alleadge for themselues also, and applie those textes of scripture to as good purpose as you do. For that place of the fourth to the Ephe. doth* 1.59 teach that God hath therefore appointed his ministerie in the Church, that it mighte be a meanes to bring vs to a perfect knowledge of Christ. The meaning is not that we should be daily altering our iudgement, and broching new opinions: for against such vnconstancie, the same Apostle speaketh in the. 14. verse of the same Chapter.* 1.60 True it is that we must dayly grow in faith and loue, to the full perfection where∣of, we cannot attaine in this life: but it doth not therefore follow, that we like children must be carried about with euery wind of doctrine, and neuer remaine constant in one religion. To the same end are the words of the Apostle in the. 3. to the Colloss. to be referred.

I beléeue it will fall out that in this your replie, there will be found sundry ar∣ticles, neyther allowed nor practised in any Church reformed, nor in our Church debated at any time heretofore.

Io Whitgifte

The 17. Article. Page. 4. Sect. 7.

They were very stubborne and wilfull, which they called constan∣cie:* 1.61

they were way ward and froward: without all humanitie, they iudged and condemned all other men.

T. C. Page. 6. Sect. 3.

If we defend no falshood or inconuenient thing, we cannot be counted stubborne or wilfull, wherof we offer to be tried by the indifferēt reader. For waywardnesse & inhumanitie, we thinke it a fault, as we esteeme godly societie and affabilitie to be commendable: and what is our behaui∣oure heerein: we likewise referre to their iudgements, with whome we are conuersant, and haue to do with, beeing misseiudged and vntruly condemned of you, we iudge nor condemne no man, their vices we condemne, so far foorth as the listes of our vocation doth permit vs.

Io. Whitgifte.

Bycause the answer to this Article consisteth of (If,) and dependeth especially of the testimonie of such as haue bin a conuenient time conuersant with you, I referre the iudgement héereof to their experience, and indifferent considerations.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 18. Article. Page. 4 Sect. 8.

They soughte to ouerthrow common weales, and states of go∣uernement.* 1.62

T. C. Page. 6. Sect. 4.

We allow of common weales, * 1.63 as withoute whiche the Churche cannot long continue, wee speake not against ciuill gouernment, nor pet againste ecclesiasticall, further than the same is an e∣uimie to the gouernment, that God hathe instituted.

Io. Whitgifte.

So do the Anabaptists in words protest as it appeareth by these words of Zuingli∣us* 1.64 in his Eccle. Though they protest, and by oth denie that they take any authoritie from magistrates, y et shortly after we should haue seene it come to passe that they would haue bin disobedient to all lawes of magistrates, if once they had increased to that number, that they might haue trusted to their owne strength. But what your doctrine tendeth too (though peraduenture you meane not so) it will, I thinke, appeare when it is exa∣mined.

Io. Whitgifte.

The 19. Article. Page. 4. Sect 9.

They gaue honoure and reuerence to none, and they vsed to speake* 1.65 to such as were in authoritie withoute any signification of honour, neither woulde they call men by their titles, and they aunswered chur〈1 line〉〈1 line〉shly.

T. C. Page. 6. Sect. 5.

If we giue honoure and reuerence to none, let vs not only haue none againe, but let vs be had as those that are vnworthy to liue amongst men. I feare there be of those, which are your fauou∣rers, Ecclesiasticall persons, that if they should meete with my Lord Mayor of London, woulde streine curtesie, whether he or they should put off the cappe first. We giue the titles of Maiestie, to the Queene our soueraygne, of grace, to Duke and Duches, of honoure to those whiche are in honoure, and so to euery one, according to their estate. If we misse, it is not bycause we are not willing, but bycause we know not always what perteineth vnto them, and then our fault is pardo∣nable. For answering churlishly, (*) 1.66 it is answered before in the seuenth Article.

Io. Whitgifte.

Iudéede the Anabaptists in the end reiected all authoritie of superiours, and refused to giue vnto them their due titles and reuerence, yet when they had for a time obtay∣ned their owne desire they tooke that to themselues most ambitiously, which they re∣fused to giue to other. You are not so farre gone as yet in all states, but in the con∣tempte

of the state Ecclesiasticall, you may compare with them to the vttermost: what you will do in the end touching the ciuill Magistrate (if you obtaine your de∣sire) I will not determine, but leaue it to the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of such as shall peruse these our bookes of such controuersies.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 20. Article. Page. 4. Sect. 10.

They attributed much vnto themselues, and pleased themselues* 1.67 very well, other men they contemned, and therefore their mindes were full of pride and contempt.

T. C. Page. 6. Sect. 6.

With acknowledging of our manyfold wants and ignorances, we doubt not also to take vpon vs, with thanksgiuing, that knowledge, whiche God hath giuen to euery of vs according to the measure of faith: we seeke not to please ourselues, but the Lorde and our briethren, yea all men in that whiche is good. We reuerence other mens giftes, so as we thinke the contempte of them, re∣doundeth to the giuer. Therefore although the cominon infection be in vs, yet we hope pride dothe not reygne in our mortall bodies.

Io. Whitgifte.

Well for the right application of this Article, I will go no further than to thys your owne booke. Surely if the rest of your fellowes haue the same spirit, there was neuer Anabaptists in these qualities to be compared vnto you. But I thinke better of some of them, so would I haue done of you also, if I had not séene the contrary in you, euen sithence our first acquaintance, but especially, sithence the time, wherein vpon iust occasions, I began to stirre you: and now most euidently in your Replie, yea this very answer of yours to this article, verifyeth the same to haue place in you, whiche in this 20. Article is ascribed to the Anabaptists.

Io. Whitgifte.

The. 21. Article. Page. 4. Sect. II.

They went not to preach in suche places where the Gospell was* 1.68 not planted, but only they insinuated themselues into those places, wherein the Gospell had bin diligently preached: and where there were godly and quiet men: there they made a sturre, they raysed vp factions and bredde discord.

T. C. Page 6 Sect. vlt.

We hold that it is no ministers part, to choose his owne place where he will preach, but to 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉a∣rie* 1.69 vntill he 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e chosen of others. Likewise, that he insinuate not himself, but abide a lawful calling, & therfore this cannot agree to vs, but to those rather, which cōtent themselues with a rouing & wan∣dering ministerie, and defende the ministers owne presenting and offering himselfe or euer hee bee called.

Io. Whitgifte.

And why haue you then hitherto chosen such places to remaine and preach in, as London. &c. Where the Gospell without you, and before your tyme was planted? why haue you there and in suche like places disquieted the Churche and sowen the séede of contention? What calling haue you had in those places, which you might not haue by the selfe same meanes in other places also, where the Gospell is not so well planted? Truly this note is so common to all Anabaptists, and so notorious, that I* 1.70 know very few writing against the Anabaptists, which do omitte it Zuinglius repor∣teth it of them in his Elenc: contra Anabap. In his Ecclesiastes diuers times, and in hys* 1.71 booke de Baptismo. Gastius likewise, in his booke de exordio & erroribus catabaptist. which they would not do, if it were not a note worthy to be noted. Surely I thinke that I

am able to proue diuers of you to haue ins〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ated yourselues to places (which plea∣sed you) before you were) called therevnto▪ And I 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of that iudgement, that a man 〈◊〉〈◊〉 lawfully so 〈◊〉〈◊〉 if h〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to do 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 to profite▪ For S. Paule saith Lint. 3.* 1.72 Qui episcopatum &c If a man desire the office of a Bishop. &c. Which place by the iudge∣ment of all the interpreters that I haue red, doth signify that a man may offer him∣selfe with a mind to do good, so that he do not intrude himselfe, or séeke by vnlawfull* 1.73 meanes to obtaine that which he desireth: for then it is like that he séeketh not to pro∣fite other, but to profyte himselfe.

If there be any tou〈1 line〉〈1 line〉g or wandring ministers it is amongst yourselues, which wan∣der 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉p and downe, from place to place to low co〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tion, and to deface by 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 reports suche as mislike your pocéedings. Any other that may so truly and 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉tly bée called rouers and wanderers I know none.

Io. Whitgifte.

The 22. &. 23. Articles Pag. 5. Sect. 1. 2.

They sought to be free from all lawes, and to do what they list.* 1.74

They were animated by crafty and suttle Papistes, whiche dyd* 1.75 seeke the ouerthrow of the Gospell, and the restoring of Papisme.

T. C. Pag. 7. Sect. 1.

I, answer as to the fifth, and touching the. 23. referre the reader to a further answer in that place, where occasion is offered to speake of it agayne.

Io. Whitgifte.

And for iust application of the. 22. Article I referre you to the 60. and. 61. Page of the second Admonition, where I would haue you consider, what their meaning is by that Prouiso, that they would haue for themselues, and by that exemption that they require to haue from the iurisdiction of the Bishops, Iustices of Peace. &c. It is not amisse also to weigh what the equalitie meaneth that they séeke for among the Cler∣gie, and the state of the Segniorie, where the Pastor must be the cheefe of what de∣grée soeuer the rest of the seniors be, whether Earles, Barons. &c.

Io. Whitgifte.

The 24. Article. Page. 5. Sect 3.

To be short the people had them in great admiration, bycause of* 1.76 their hypocrisie, and streightnesse of life, and such as were of conten∣tious natures ioyned with them, and commended their doings.

T. C. Pa▪ 7. Sect. 2.

So farre foorth as we may (for the infirmities wherewith we are inclosed) we indeuoure to adorne the doctrine of the Gospell, which we professe, we seeke not the admiration of men (if God do giue, that we haue honest reporte, we thinke we ought to mainteine that, to the glory of God, and aduancement of the Gospell. What is our straightnesse of life any other, than is required in all Christians? we bring in I am sure no monachisme or anchorisme, we eate and drinke as other men, we liue as other men, we are apparelled as other men, we lie as other men, we vse those ho∣nest recreations that other men do, and we thinke there is no good thing or commoditie of life in the world, but that in sobrietie we may be partakers of, so farre as our degree and calling will suf∣fer vs, and as God maketh vs able to haue it. For the hypocrisie that you so often charge vs with, the day shall trie it. If any man ioyne with vs, with mind to contend, it is against our will, not∣withstanding * 1.77 we know none; and what great stirrers and contenders they be which fauour thys cause, let all men iudge.

Io. Whitgifte.

These be faire speaches, sooner said than proued: I accuse you not of these matters, I do but report the qualities of the Anabaptists, if your owne consciences accuse you, or if you will néedes applie these things vnto yourselues (as I haue said before) I can not let you.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation &c. Pag. 5. Sect. 4. 5.

These were the maners, conditions, practises, and proceedings of the Anabaptistes in Germanie, before they vttered their seditious and monstrous heresies.

I leaue the application hereof to your wisedomes, who easily can coniecture, what kind of mē they be that come nearest to these steps. Onely I desire you to be circumspecte, and to vnderstande that Ana∣baptisme (which vsually followeth the preaching of the Gospell) is greatly to be feared in this Church of Englande, and almost playne∣ly professed in this Admonition, the authors whereof agree wyth them in these forenamed practises and qualities.

T. C. Pag. 7. Sect. 3.

Doe you thinke to mocke the worlde so, that when you haue so vniustly, and so haynously ac∣cused, you may wipe your mouth, and saye as you dyd before that you will not accuse any? and as nowe, that you leaue the application? Is not this to accuse, to say that the authors of the Admo∣nition doe almost playnely professe Anabaptisme? Is not this to apply, to say that they agree wyth the Anabaptistes in (*) 1.78 all the forenamed practises and qualities? you woulde faine strike vs, but you would doe it in the nyghte, when no man shoulde see you, and yet if you haue to doe agaynste Anabaptistes, you neede not feare to proclayme your warre agaynst them: you haue a glorious cause, you shall haue a certayne victorie. I dare promyse you, that you shall haue all the estates and orders of this Realme to clappe, their handes and sing your 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, and triumphant songes. But that you woulde conuey your sting so priuily and hissingly, as the Adder doth, it caryeth with it a suspicion of an euill conscience, and of a worse cause, than you make the worlde beleeue you haue.

Io. Whitgifte.

Truely I am in good earnest: I mocke not: I greatly feare Anabaptisme, which is an heresie that hath many branches, and créepeth in secretely vnder notable preten∣ses: and therefore I thought it conuenient to gather these notes together out of suche learned & godly writers as haue had experience of them, the which also I haue more at large set oute in the seconde edition of my booke. If this offende you, the offence is* 1.79 taken and not gyuen: you are not able to accuse me iustly hetherto of any vntruth. I accuse none, bycause I knowe none, that will openly professe himselfe to be one, or playnely affyrme any article which is of the substance of theyr heresye. But I sée diuers walking in the same steppes that the Anabaptistes dyd, towardes theyr heresyes: and therefore I thoughte it my duetie to admonishe those that be in autho∣ritie to take héede of them (Let men apply them as they sée cause, and haue experi∣ence) there can be no hurte in that, it shall make them the more circumspect, and arme them agaynst the hypocriste of diuers. Howe the authors of both the Admoni∣tions do agree with the Anabaptistes, in these forenamed practises, I haue declared in my answere to your Reply.

You falsifie my wordes when you affyrme, that I say they agree wyth the Anabaptists in all the forenamed practises, and qualities, for I haue not this vniuersall signe all: if they agrée with them in many, they are to be suspected. I thinke the Anabaptistes them∣selues, as they haue diuers and seuerall opinions in doctrine, so had they also sundrie qualities concerning lyfe and conuersation: and yet some there are which be common to them all. I know that all the estates and orders of this Realitie hate Anabaptisme: I re∣quire not your promyse for that matter, which you offer vnto me Satis pro imperio. I know their detestation of that heresie, and therefore I am holde to open these practi∣ses & qualities vnto them, least they may by some mens hypocrisie, and close dealing be deceiued. My words and writings be publike, my speaches plaine, and therefore if I sting, it is openly inoughe. The priuie hissers and stingers, he those that secretelye

smyte theyr neighbour, and hisse at them in their absence at tables, and in corners, and sting them behinde their backes, whē they are not present to answere for themselues: Such adders and Scorpions, swarme among you.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation &c. Pag. 5. Sect. 6.

Moreouer it may please you to consider the conditions & practi∣ses of the Donatists, who deuided them selues frō the congregation,* 1.80 and had their peculiar Churches, or rather conuenticles, in Africa. They taughte also that all other Churches were spotted and im∣pure, bycause of their Ministers. Finally, that there ought to be no compulsion vsed in matters of Religion and fayth, and that none should be punished for their conscience.

T. C. Page. 7. Sect. 4.

Nowe you carie vs from the Anabaptistes in Europe, to the Donatistes in Affricke, and you will paynte vs wyth their colours, but you want the oyle of truth, or 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of truth, to cause your colours to cleaue and to endure. The Lorde be praysed, that your breath although it be 〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉anke, yet it is not so strong y^t it is able eyther to turne vs, or chaunge vs into what formes it plea∣seth you. I shall desire the reader to loke Theodoret lib. 4. de fabulis Haereticorum & Augustin, ad quod-uult-Deum: and in his firste and second bookes agaynst 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Letters, where he shall fynde of these heretikes, that by comparing them wyth these, to whome M. Doctor lyk〈1 line〉〈1 line〉eth them, the smoke of this accusation mighte the better appeare: For these sclaunders are not worthe th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 answering. To this diuision from the Churches, and to your supposed conuenticles, I haue answered. They taught that there were no true Churches but in Affrica, we teache nothing lesse, than that there is no true Churche but in Englande. If the Churches be considered in the partes, whether Minister, or people, there is none pure and vnspotted, and this is the faythe of the true Churche, and not of the Donatistes: if it be considered in the whole and generall gouern∣ment and outwarde pollicie of it, it may be pure and vnspotted, for any thing I knowe, if men would laboure to purge it. The Donatists vaunted themselues to be exempted from sinn〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, and what lykelyhoode is there betwene any assertion of the authors of the Admonition, and this fansie of the Donatistes. To the last poynt of no compulsion to be vsed in matters of Religion denying it to be true, I referre the further answere to an other place.

Io. Whitgifte.

This that I haue set downe of the Donatistes is all true, neyther can you dis∣proue one word of it. I write so much of their practises as he correspondent to the do∣ings* 1.81 of the Authors of the Admonition. The Donatistes deuided th〈1 line〉〈1 line〉mselues from the co〈1 line〉〈1 line〉gregation, and had peculiar Churches, or rather conuenticles in Affrica. These also deuide themselues from the Churche. And although they tye not the Churche of Christ to any one corner, yet haue they their seuerall Churches, and secrete meetings. The 〈◊〉〈◊〉 made thys their excuse, why they departed from other Churches? bycause they were not pure and vnspotted, and their ministers of euill life: These men for the lyke causes separat〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 themselues from the Churche also. The Donatistes woulde haue no 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vsed in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of Religion, and fayth: These men in effecte be lykewise mynded: for they woulde haue no 〈◊〉〈◊〉 punishement vsed, which may appeare 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉y that which is written in the second 〈◊〉〈◊〉 fol. 57. where they saye that it 〈◊〉〈◊〉 not to make any lawes 〈◊〉〈◊〉 m〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ere 〈◊〉〈◊〉, bycause the gouernment of the* 1.82 Churche is 〈◊〉〈◊〉 per 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the worde, and fol. 56. and in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 plates else they speake to the lyke purpose, whereof occasion willbe g〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uen hereafter better to consider.

Augustine in his 〈◊〉〈◊〉 de haeresibus ad quod-vult-〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉heweth that some of the Do∣natistes* 1.83 were also Arians, but not all, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 some of them were Circumcellions, of which secte 〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in the place by you cyted: But what is all 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to▪* 1.84 the 〈◊〉〈◊〉? 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 speake 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ot of their opinions, nor of all theyr conditions, but of such

onely, wherein these that separate them selues in oure dayes, séeme to agrée wyth them. Similia (as you knowe) agrée not in all poyntes, it is sufficient if they doe in those things in quibus 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Neyther doe I anye otherwyse reporte of them, than M. Caluine him selfe doth in his booke against the Anabaptistes: and Augustine with others that write of them.

Surely neyther in the whole, nor in parte can the Churche be vnspotted in this world, no not in the outwarde pollicie and gouernment of it: neyther doe I thinke that you are able to shewe any examples of suche Puritie: we haue to the contrarie euen in the Apostolicall Churches in the Apostles tyme, as the Churche of Corinth, and of the Galatians. Maister Caluine in hys booke aduersus Anabaptistas is directly against you, and in déede I thinke that you are not able to shewe one learned writer of your opi∣nion in this poynt.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation &c. Pag. 5. Sect. 7.

To conclude, these men flatly ioyne with the Papistes, and by the selfe same assertions, bende their force against this Churche of Englande.

T C. Pag. 7. Sect. vlt.

Salomon sayth that the beginnyng of the 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ordes of an vnwise man is folyshnesse, b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉t the* 1.85 latter ende of them is mere madnesse: euen so it 〈◊〉〈◊〉 oute by you; for whilest you suffer your selfe to be caryed headlong of your affections, you hurle, you knowe not what, nor at whome, whatsoeuer commeth firste to hande, and speake things that the eyes, and eares of all men, fee, and heare, to be otherwyse: 〈◊〉〈◊〉 yo〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 them to the Anabaptistes, and Donatistes, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 friende of yours mighte thinke, you sayde 〈◊〉〈◊〉, bycause suche alway〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s seekyng darke and solita∣rie places, myghte happely haue some fauourers, whych are not knowne. But when you ioyne them wyth the Papistes whych are commonly knowne to all men, whose doctrine they imp〈1 line〉〈1 line〉gne, as (*) 1.86 well as you, whose markes and badges they can lesse awaye wyth than you, whose com∣panie they flie more than you, whose punishment they haue called for more than you for your parte haue done, and therefore are condemned of them as 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ruell, when you oftentymes carie awaye the name of myldnesse and moderation, whych forsothe knowe (as you haue professed) no comman∣dement in the Scripture to put heretickes to death: when I saye, you ioyne them thus wyth the Papistes, you doe not 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉nely 〈◊〉〈◊〉 your credite in these vntrue furmises (wherein I truste wyth the indifferent reader your neuer had any) but you make all other things suspected, which you 〈◊〉〈◊〉, so that you gyue 〈◊〉〈◊〉 occasion to take vp the common prouerbe agaynst you, I wyll truste you no farther than I see you. After you haue thus yoked them with the Papistes, you go aboute to shewe wherein they drawe wyth them. Wherein I fyrst aske of you, if all they that affyrme or doe any thyng that the enimyes of the Churche doe, are forthwith 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉oyned and conspi∣red with them against the Church? what (a) 1.87 say you to S. Paule that ioyned wyth the (*) Pha∣rise〈1 line〉〈1 line〉s* 1.88 in the resurrection, with the false Apostles in taking no (*) wages of the Corinthians, our* 1.89 Sauiour Christ, which spake agaynst the Jewes which were then the onely people of God, as the Gentils dyd which were their enimyes, will you saye therefore that eyther Sainte Paule* 1.90 ioyned wyth the Phariseys or false Apostles, agaynst the Churche, or that our Sauiour Christ ioyned agaynst the Jewes wyth the Gentils? but let vs see your slaunders particularly,

Io. Whitgifte.

The same Salomon sayth, that in the mouthe of the foolyshe is the roote of pride.* 1.91 &c. Euen so it falleth oute with you: for whylest with suche proude wordes you séeke to dryue at me, you doe but condemne your selfe of follye. Pylate and He∣rode* 1.92 were at enimitie betwi〈1 line〉〈1 line〉te them selues, and yet they wyned together againste Christ: The Phariseis and Saduces were of contrarie opinions, yet were they both enimyes to the doctrine of Christ. The Turke and the Pope be of contrarie Reli∣gions, yet doe they both conspire agaynst the Gospell: Papistes and Anabaptistes a∣grée not eyther in opinion or in societie, yet doe they both séeke to deface the Church of Christe: Euen so they, thoughe they impugne the doctrine of the Papists neuer so 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣ly, & cast away their markes and badges neuer so farre from them, though they cannot

abyde theyr companie, yet doe they wyth them by the same assertions, (thoughe not by the same argumentes) assaulte this Churche of Englande, and bende their force a∣gainst it. Dyd not the seditious Iewes within Ierusalem, ioyne wyth the Romains beyng their enimyes, inprocuring the destruction of that Citie? you are not so igno∣raunt as you woulde séeme to be, I am sure you vnderstande my meaning.

Howe or where you haue called for the punishement of the Papistes more than I haue 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and therefore you counted cruell, and I made and moderate, certaynely I knowe not, I heare onely your selfe saye so. What I haue done, and where, I minde not to bragge of at this time, I leaue that for you.

What I haue professed concernyng the putting to deathe of Herotickes, the same doe I professe still, and am ready thereof to gyue an accompte at all tymes as I shal be required: although neyther you, nor any man else, haue heard me teach that doctrine, or professe it: but thys is one of your glances by the waye: when occasion is gyuen me to speake of that matter I wyll plainely vtter my conscience by the grace of God, In the meane tyme, it is no cause why I shoulde be better thoughte of among the Papistes, for bothe theyr practise and theyr doctrine is eleane contrarie.

To your question I answere, that if they doe that against the Church, which the enimyes doe against the same, then doe they in that conspire wyth them a∣gainst the Churche: and therefore all your example〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vsed are to no purpose at all. For Saynt Paule ioyned wyth the Phariseys and wyth the false Propheteo in those thyngs which were allowed of the Churche, and for the commoditie of the Church, and therefore in no respecte agaynst the Churche, the same answere I make to the ex∣ample of Christe iustly reprouing the Iewes: if you woulde haue vsed apte exam∣ples for your purpose, then shoulde you haue broughte in suche as beyng of contra∣rie iudgementes, haue notwythsta〈1 line〉〈1 line〉dyng soughte to ouerthrowe one and the selfe same thing, althoughe by diuers meanes: But then shoulde you haue concluded a∣gaynst your selfe, as you must of necessitie dee. So that here where you would séeme to say much, you haue saide nothing at all.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation &c. pag. 5. Sect. vlt.

First the Papistes affirme that we are not the true Churche, no, that we haue not so much as the outward face and she we of the true Church, and so doe these men almost in flat and playne termes.

T. C. pag. 8. Sect. 1.

They doe not denie but there is a visible Church of God in England, and therefore your say∣ings of them, that they doe almost in plaine and flat termes say, that we haue not so muche as any outwarde face and shewe of the true Church, argueth that you haue almost no loue in you, whieh vpon one word once vttered, contrarie to the tenour of their booke, and course of their whole life, surmise this of them, and how truely you conclude of that word (scarce) it shall appeare when we come to that place.

Io. Whitgifte.

They doe in playne and flat termes write as muche as I doe reporte of them in this article: for a manyfest proofe thereof 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 referre the reader to the. 6. page of the se∣conde Admonition, and the. 53. of the first Admonition: and to the whole discourse of both. My (almost) is equiualent to they▪ searse. But whosoeuer shall well consi∣dèr the tenour of theyr bookes, and the course of their lyfe, may easily vnderstande, that both I myghte haue leftē oute my almost, and they theyr scarse, lykewise.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation &c. Pag. 6. Sect. 1.

Secondly the Papistes say, that we haue no ministerie, no By∣shops, no pastours, bicause they be not rightly and canonically cal∣led to these functions: the selfe same do these men affirme.

T. C. Pag. 8. Sect. 2.

I haue answered this in the seconde article of Anabaptisme, that you charge vs with.

Io. Whitgifte.

Then haue I answered the same there also.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation. &c. Pag. 6. Sect 2.

Thirdly the Papistes say that our Sacraments be not rightly ministred: and so say they likewise.

T. C. Page. 8. Sect. 3.

This is also answered in the thirde.

Io. Whitgifte.

That is, you haue there closely confessed this to be true. But that the reader may vnderstande that it is most truely verifyed of them, let him peruse that which is written in the seconde Admonition. fol. 43. where they saye, the sacraments be wickedly* 1.93 ministred: and in the first Admonition. fol. 89. and that also that followeth in thys booke.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation. &c. Pag. 6. Sect. 3.

Fourthly the Papistes wholy ▪condemne our booke of common prayers, set out by publike authoritie, and the whole order of our ser∣uice: in that poynt do these men fully ioyne with them also, for they condemne it wholy, and that with most bitternesse.

T. C. Page. 8. Sect. 4.

I answere, that they doe not condemne it wholy, but finde fault with it, as in some poynts dis∣agreeing with the word of God.

Io. Whitgifte.

For the proofe of this article, reade the first Admonition. fol. 85. 86. &c. 148. &c. the seconde Admonition fol. 9. 10. 38. 39. &c.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation. &c. Page. 6. Sect. 4.

Fiftly the Papistes would not haue the Scriptures read in the Church to the people: no more would they. For they saye, reading is not feeding, but as euill as playing on a stage and worse to.

T. C. Pag. 8. Sect. 5.

All men shall perceyue, when I come to that place, howe you haue racked their wordes to an other sense, than they spake them, in the meane season it is inoughe that they confesse that readyng in the Church is godly.

Io. Whitgifte.

It is wel that you confesse it to be godly, it wil appeare when I come to that place, that the authors of the Admonition, both write and thinke farre otherwyse, excepte they write one thing and thinke another.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation &c. pag. 6. Sect 5.

Sixtly the Papists denie the ciuill Magistrate to haue any autho∣ritie in Ecclesiasticalll matters, and so doe they.

T. C. pag. 8. Sect. 6.

I haue answered in the (*) 1.94 tenth article of Anabaptisme.

Io. Whitgifte.

Your answere is there very confused, and vncertaine: but for the proofe of this ar∣ticle, I referre the reader to certaine notes which I haue collected out of your booke touching this matter in this my defense.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation &c. pag. 6. Sect. 6.

To be short, the Papistes refuse to come to our Church, to Com∣municate with vs in the Lordes Supper: and these men would not haue them by lawes and punishment compelled thervnto.

T. C. pag. 8. Sect. vlt.

I answere that Doeg, when he saide that Dauid came to Abimilech, sayde nothing but truth, and when they that witnessed against Christ that he sayde, destroy the temple, and in three dayes I will build it vp againe, saide nothing but that our sauiour Christ sayde. But yet Doeg was a slaunderer, and the other, false witnesses: bycause the one spake of minde to hurte, and the other vnderstoode it of another temple, than our sauiour Christ ment it: so although you do in parte re∣hearse their wordes, yet taking them contrary to their meaning (which might easily appeare by the circumstances) I see not howe you can bee free from these faultes, vnlesse it be done ignorantly, which I wishe were true for your owne sake. And here I wyll desire thee gentle reader, to marke with what conscience this man sayth, that they are ioyned and confederate with the Papistes a∣gaynst the Church. The Papistes mislyke of the Booke of common prayers for nothing else, but bycause it swarueth from their Masse booke, and is not in all poyntes lyke vnto it. And these men mislyke it, for nothing else, but that it hath to much lykelyhoode vnto it. And iudge whether they be more ioyned with the Papistes, which woulde haue no communion or fellowship wyth them, neyther in ceremonies, nor doctrine, nor gouernment, or they, which forsaking their doctrine, re∣teyne part of theyr ceremonies, & almost their whole gouernment: that is, they that separate them∣selues, by three walles, or by one, they that woulde be parted by the broade sea from them, or which woulde be beuided by narrowe water, where they maye make a bridge to come agayne, and displace the truth of the Gospell, as they haue done in tymes past: They that woulde not onely vnhorse the Pope, but also take awaye the styrrops, whereby he shoulde neuer get into the sadle agayne: or they that beyng content wyth that, that he is vnhorsed, leaue his ceremonies and his gouernment especially, as styrrops, whereby he maye leape vp agayne when as occasion serueth. They that are content, onely to haue cut the armes and body of Antichristianitie, or they which would haue stumpe, and roote all vp.

Io. Whitgifte.

Better it is to haue a bad excuse than none at all. Their words and meaning is playne, as shal appeare when I come to thē. I thinke in déede their meaning is, that they would not haue them cōpelled to come to our Churches, and to communicate in the Lordes supper with vs, as it is nowe ministred: For it is well knowne, howe they themselues refuse to do the same, and howe they haue defaced both this Church, and the manner and forme of administring the Sacrament: what they woulde doe, if they might haue their owne deuised reformation, and haue the lawe in their owne handes, I can not tell, but it is very lyke that they woulde be sharpe and seuere

inough in compelling men to come. I speake of their opinion touching the compel∣ling of men to come to our Churche, vnto the whiche they come not themselues.

That whiche followeth in your Replie, I haue sufficiently answered before,* 1.95 where I haue declared, howe that it is no straunge thing for men of cleane contrarie iudgementes and opinions, to ioyne togither in oppugning one and the selfe same truthe. The Papistes pretende one cause of misliking the booke of Cōmon prayers, and they pretende an other cause of misliking the same, do they not nowe both ioyne in defacing and ouerthrowing it? That which followeth is but words, those things whiche they reproue in that booke be godly, and moste of them not to be bettered. The persons that stande in the defense of that booke, haue all poyntes of Papistrie in as great detestation, as they, and peraduenture greater, for they so occupie themselues in these externall thinges, which be of small importance, that in the meane time they* 1.96 slippe ouer matters of weighte and substance, euen the principall poyntes where in we differ from them. Wherefore this comparison of yours standeth vpon a false grounde. For I am fully persuaded, that you and they doo the Pope great good ser∣uice, and that he woulde not misse you for any thing. For what is his desire, but to haue this Churche of Englande (whiche he hathe accursed) vtterly defaced, and discredited, to haue it by any meanes ouerthrowne, if not by forreyne enimies, yet by domesticall dissention. And what fitter and apter instrumentes coulde he haue had for that purpose than you, who vnder pretence of zeale, ouerthrowe that whiche other men haue buylded, vnder colour of puritie, seeke to bring in deformitie, and vnder the cloke of equalitie and humilitie, would vsurpe as great tyrannie and lofty* 1.97 Lordlykenesse ouer your parishes, as euer the Pope did ouer the whole Churche? For who should be the chiefe man of the segniorie but the Pastor, what state and de∣grée of men soeuer else were in that parishe, yea the Prince hir selfe? looke their Admonitions, and especially the seconde, and this booke also: and tell me whether it be so or no? Wherefore these glorious wordes of yours be but mistes to blinde the eyes of the simple, in lyke manner, and to the like purpose vsed of the Anabaptistes agaynst Zuinglius, Oecolampadius, Bucer, and suche like sincere professors of the word* 1.98 of God. Peruse the notes that I haue collected, not onely out of Bullinger, but out of Zuinglius, and Gastius also, and you shall sée them in all poyntes to vse these plausible pretences, and to accuse their aduersaries after the like maner.

Io. Whitgifte.

An exhortation, &c. Pag. 6. Sect. vlt.

Heereby it is manyfest, that the Papistes and they ioyntly doe seeke to shake, nay to ouerthrow the selfe same foundations, groun∣des, and pillers of our Churche, althoughe not by the selfe same in∣strumentes, and engines. Wherefore it is tyme to awake oute of sleepe, and to drawe oute the sworde of discipline, to prouide that lawes, whiche be generall, and made for vniformitie, aswell of doc∣trine as ceremonies, be generally & vniuersally obserued, that those which according to their consciences and duty execute them, be main∣teined, and not discouraged. Either boldly defend the Religion & kind of gouernment in this Realme established, or else (if you can) reforme and better the same: for it can not be but that this freedome giuen to men to obey and disobey what they list, to speake what they list, a∣gainst whom they list, and where they list, to breche what opinions & doctrine they list, must in the ende burst out into some strange & dan∣gerous effect. The Lord both graunt vnto you that be Magistrats, the spirit of gouernment, and to all other that be subiects, the spirite of true obedience. Amen.

T. C. Pag. 9 Sect. 1.

After you haue all to be blacked and grimed with the inke of Anabaptisme, Donatisme, and* 1.99 Papisme, those whome you founde cleare from the least spot or specke of any of them: You whette the sworde, and blow the fire, and you will haue the godly Magistrate minister of your choler, and therefore in stead of feare of leesing the multitude of your liuings, forgoing your pompe and pryde of men, and delicacie of fare, vnlawfull iurisdiction, which you haue, and heereafter looke for, con∣science, religion, and establishment of the common wealthe muste be pretended. What haue you forgotten that which you sayde in the beginning, that you accused none, but suspected certayne? would you haue the sworde to be drawne vpon your suspicions? But now you see, that they, whom you haue accused, are nothing like either Anabaptistes, Donatistes, or Papistes, and your selfe moste vnlike to him that you professe to be, and that you see, that all your sclaunders are quenched by the innocencie (as it were by water) of those men, whome you so haynousely accuse: you are to be put in minde of the lawe of God, which decreeth, that he which accuseth an other, if he proue it not, shall suffer the punishment, which he should haue done, agaynst whome the accusation had bin* 1.100 iustly proued. The Romanes did nourishe in Capitolio, cer••yne dogges, and geese, which by their barking and gagling, should giue warning in the nighte, of theeues that entred in: but if they cried in the day time, when there was no suspicion, and when men came in to worship, then their legges were broken, bicause they cried when there was no cause. If therefore he haue accused iustly, then is he worthy to haue his diet allowed him of the common charges: But if otherwise, we desire not that his legges may be broken (as theirs were) but this we humbly craue, that if this our an∣swere do not sufficiently purge vs, that we may be sifted and searched nearer, that if we nourishe any suche monstrous opinions (as are surmised) we may haue the rewarde of them: if we doe not, then at the least, we may haue the good abearing, agaynst suche sclaunderous tongues, seeing that God hathe not onely committed vnto the Magistrate, the safetie of our goodes and life, but also the preseruation of our honest reporte.

Io. Whitgifte.

Conuicta impietas dum non habet quod respondeat, conuertit se ad conuitia. Vngodlynesse be∣ing conuicted, when she is destitute of a good answere, turneth hir selfe to reprochefull wordes: but your heate of wordes, and forgetfulnesse of dutie and reuerence, I passe ouer with silence. The multitude of liuings which I haue, I do enioye by law, and may retayne (I thanke God) with a farre better conscience, than T. C. did one liuing for the space of certayne yeres, and would haue done still with all his heart, if he mighte haue bin winked at, thoughe it were expresly agaynst his othe. My pompe is very small, my pride of men is but according to my calling, it were more for my profite if I had fewer. My delicate fare is very simple: I haue witnesses inowe of it, perad∣uenture if you were kept to that diet, it would not be with you as it is. If my iuris∣diction be vnlawfull, I am content it be reformed, it is according to the statutes of the Colledge where I am (to the which T. C. hathe bin sworne) and to the lawes of the Realme. What I heereafter looke for, it is harde for you to iudge: But I most humbly thanke my heauenly father, that in all this storming of yours, wherein you haue blowne out agaynst me what you could possibly imagine, you haue only vttered your boyling stomacke, and not touched me in any thing, whereof I néede to be ashamed, which surely you would haue done if you could.

I whet the sworde no otherwise agaynst you, than christian charitie and the state of* 1.101 the Church requireth. It is neither the sworde that taketh away life, nor fire that consumeth the body, which I moue vnto, but it is the sworde of correction and discipline, which may by sundrie other meanes be drawne out, than by shedding of bloud. That sword of discipline, I call for still, and say wyth Zuinglius: If it be permitted that euery* 1.102 man may freely defend his errors, and spread abrode in the Church false doctrine, there wil be more contentions, sectes and discorde among Christian Churches, than euer there was a∣mong Infidels. And again, If euery man may without controlment preach among the peo∣ple his own priuate phansie and opinion, contrary to the determination and authority of the Church, it will shortly come to passe that we shall haue more errors than Christians.

If I haue accused any man vniustly, there is a lawe, whervnto I am subiecte: but your words are not of that weight, neither your defense suche, that therefore they please or satisfie wise men, bicause you speake them. If they can say no more for them selues than you haue sayd for thē, then they must remayne still in the same suspicion.

If there be any iust cause why ye shoulde haue the good abearing agaynst any man, if you will come foorthe, and orderly require it. I am sure you may haue it. But oh the mildnesse, the patience, and the quietnesse of this spirite of yours.

To the godly Readers, grace and peace from God, &c.

TWo treatises ye haue heere ensuing (beloued in Christ) which ye muste reade without a 1.103 parcialitie or blinde affection. For otherwyse you shall neither see their meaning: nor refrayne your selues from rashly condemning of them with∣out iust cause. For certayne men there are of great countenance, whiche will not lightly like of them, bicause they principally concerne their persons and vniust dea∣lings▪ whose credite is great, and whose friends are many, we meane the lordely Lords, Archbishops, Bishops, Suffraganes, Deanes, Doctors, Archdeacons, Chauncellours, and the rest of that proude generation, whose kingdome muste downe, holde they neuer so harde: b〈1 line〉〈1 line〉cause their tyrannous Lordship can not stande b 1.104 with Christes kingdome. And it is the speciall mischiefe of our Englishe Churche, and the chiefe cause of backwardnesse, and of all breache & dissention. For they whose authoritie is c 1.105 forbidden by Christ, wil haue their stroke without their felow seruants, yea, though vngratiously, cruelly and Popelike they take vp∣pon them to d 1.106 beate them, and that for their own childish Articles, beeing for the most part against the manyfest truthe of God: First, by experience their rigour hathe too playnely appeared euer since their wicked raigne, and specially for the space of these fiue or sixe yeres last past togither. Of the enormities, whiche with suche rigour they maynteine, these treatises do in parte make men∣tion, iustly crauing redrèsse thereof. But the matters do require a larger discourse. Onely the au∣thors of these, thoughte it their partes to admonishe you at this time, of those inconueniences whiche men seeme not to thinke vpon, and whiche without reformation, can not but increase fur∣ther dissention: the one parte beeing, proude, pontificall, and tyrannous: and the worde of God for the other parte expresse and manifest, as if it pleased the state to examine the matters, it woulde be euident. And woulde to God, that free conference in these matters might be had. For howsoe∣uer learned and many they seeme to be, they should & may in this realme find inowe, to match them and shame them too, if they holde on as they haue begonne. And out of this realme they haue all the best reformed Churches throughout Christendome agaynst them. But in a fewe wordes to say what we meane. Either muste we haue a right e 1.107 ministerie of God, and a right f 1.108 gouern∣ment of his Churche, according to the Scriptures set vp (both which we lacke) or else there can be no right religion, nor yet for contempt thereof can g 1.109 Gods plagues be from vs any while dif∣ferred. And therefore though they linke in togither, and sclaunderously charge poore men (whome they haue made poore) with grieuous faults, calling them Puritans, worse than the Donatists, exasperating & setting on such as be inauthoritie agaynst them, hauing hitherto miserably handled thē with r〈1 line〉〈1 line〉uilings▪ depriuations, imprisonments, banishments, & suche like extremities, yet is these poore mens cause neuer the h 1.110 worse: nor these chalengers the better: nor God his i 1.111 hand the further of to linke in with his agaynst them: nor you (christian brethren) must neuer the rather without examination k 1.112 condemne them. But thankfully take this taste whiche God by these treatises offereth you, and weigh them by the worde of God, and do your endeu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ur, euery man in his l 1.113 calling, to promote his cause. And let vs all with more m 1.114 earnest prayer than we are wont, earnestly commende it to God hys blessing, and namely that it will please him by his spirite to lighten the heart of our most gracious Soueraigne, and the rest in authoritie, to the benefite of his small flocke, and the ouerthrowe of their proude enimies, that godlinesse may by them proceede in peace, and God his glory through Iesus Christ, be throughly aduaunced. Whiche we call God to witnesse, is our onely labour and suite. And so presently we leaue you: hartily beseeching God to graunt it.

Amen.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Bigge wordes.
• (a) 1.2

  A charitable iudgement, and yet before he reproued the l〈1 line〉〈1 line〉ke.
• * 1.3

  1. Cor. 13. 5.
• * 1.4

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉
• (*) 1.5

  The ca〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 is 〈◊〉〈◊〉 thing lyke.
• * 1.6

  Mat. 10. 34.
• * 1.7

  Luc. 12. 49.
• * 1.8

  A good 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 vnfayne〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.9

  Zuinglius
• * 1.10

  The admoni∣tors iustly ac∣cused of con∣tention.
• * 1.11

  Their disor∣der in publi∣shing the Ad∣monition.
• * 1.12

  Their disor∣der in prea∣ching.
• * 1.13

  Zuingl. in ec∣clesi.
• * 1.14

  Caluin aduer∣sus Anabap.
• * 1.15

  T. C. vseth the same de∣fense for his contentiō, that the Anabap∣tists do.
• * 1.16

  Zuing. in ec.
• * 1.17

  The sworde which Christ sendeth is not betwene the faithfull.
• * 1.18

  Bucer in. 4. Eph.
• * 1.19

  Bul. fol. 1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 18. 87. 102. 244.
• * 1.20

  This is your owne Logike, & these be argu∣ments of your owne framing.
• (1) 1.21

  No: but that may be the true church of Christ wherein there is no excommuni∣cation: the con∣trarie whereof the Anabaptist〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 affyrme.
• (2) 1.22

  By what a〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 tho〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e presume those parishes so 〈◊〉〈◊〉
• (3) 1.23

  What scrip∣tures, or where▪ will you not quote one▪
• (4) 1.24

  This is vntrue
• (5) 1.25

  Is it be not 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉o, what maye be 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of you▪
• * 1.26

  What other thing is assirmed in the seconde articles
• (6) 1.27

  Note his mo∣〈1 line〉〈1 line〉est 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 manerly speaches.
• * 1.28

  They seke not the reformatiō but the diffa∣mation of mi∣nisters.
• * 1.29

  〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 Anabap.
• * 1.30

  Ibidem Why the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 speake euill of magistrate〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Idem in 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉les
• * 1.31

  Gastiu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.32

  F〈1 line〉〈1 line〉st Admo∣nition contra∣rie to T. C.
• * 1.33

  Lauful is or∣dinarie in a Church esta∣blished.
• * 1.34

  The Admo∣mtors denye the Gospell to be truly prea∣ched in Eng∣lande.
• * 1.35

  Seconde Ad∣monition pag. 6.
• * 1.36

  〈◊◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊◊〉 Idem 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.37

  Zuingl. in Eccles.
• * 1.38

  Bull. fo. 9. 18▪
• * 1.39

  Bullin. fo. 10.
• * 1.40

  All seeke not the glorie of God, that pre∣tend so to doe.
• * 1.41

  Zuinglius in Ecclesiast.
• * 1.42

  Gastius.
• * 1.43

  Bucer.
• * 1.44

  Bull. fo. 11. 17.
• * 1.45

  Psalm. 37. ver. 6.
• * 1.46

  Bull. fol. 11.
• * 1.47

  Bu. Fo. 10. 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.48

  Marke the 〈◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊〉▪
• * 1.49

  Bul. Fol. 19▪
• * 1.50

  Bul. Fol. 19. 9〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 242.
• * 1.51

  Fol. 178.
• * 1.52

  Fol. 11. 242.
• * 1.53

  Fol. 11.
• * 1.54

  Second Ad∣moni. Fol. 59
• * 1.55

  The state of the cōtētiō al∣tered by T. C.
• * 1.56

  Fol. 17. 77.
• * 1.57

  Fol. 18.
• * 1.58

  Eph. 4. v. 13 Col. 3. v. 10.
• * 1.59

  4. Eph.
• * 1.60

  4. Eph. ver. 14.
• * 1.61

  Bu. Eo. 78. 244
• * 1.62

  Fol. 78.
• * 1.63

  This seemeth to be contrary to that which be hath. Page. 35
• * 1.64

  Zuingli. in Ecclesi.
• * 1.65

  Fol. 79.
• (*) 1.66

  Wher nothīg is mentioned of it, but it is refer∣red (by like) to this place, and from hence po∣sted ouer thither agayne.
• * 1.67

  Bul. Fol. 85.
• * 1.68

  Fol. 88.
• * 1.69

  How happenet〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 it then that so many of you flocke togither at London▪ who calleth you?
• * 1.70

  Zuinglius.
• * 1.71

  Gastius.
• * 1.72

  A man may offer his helpe in the ministe tie in some re∣spect.
• * 1.73

  1. Tim. 3.
• * 1.74

  Fol. 95.
• * 1.75

  Fol. 11.
• * 1.76

  Fol. 11.
• * 1.77

  Who is so blind as he that will not see?
• (*) 1.78

  A falsificatio〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 for 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉e addeth this word▪ all▪
• * 1.79

  Page. 19. &c.
• * 1.80

  Donatistes.
• * 1.81

  The admoni∣tors compared with the Do∣natistes.
• * 1.82

  Second Ad∣moni. fol. 57.
• * 1.83

  Aug. de baere∣sib ad quod∣vult.
• * 1.84

  Lib. 4 de fab. Haeret.
• * 1.85

  Ecclef. 10. ver. 13.
• (*) 1.86

  And yet in de∣facing and depr〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 uing this Church of England they fully ioyne wyth them, and so 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉oe not I.
• (a) 1.87

  I say, that nei∣ther Christe nor Paule ioyned ei∣ther with Gen∣til〈1 line〉〈1 line〉, Phariseis, or false Apostles a∣gainst the church
• * 1.88

  Act. 23. v. 6
• * 1.89

  2. Cor. II. v. 12.
• * 1.90

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. Cor. 9.
• * 1.91

  Pro. 14.
• * 1.92

  Men of con∣trarie iudge∣ments ioyne togither a∣gainst the truthe.
• * 1.93

  2. Admon, fol. 43.
• (*) 1.94

  Where you haue not spoken one word of it.
• * 1.95

  Pag. 51.
• * 1.96

  The Admo∣nitors gratifie the Papists.
• * 1.97

  Equalitie made a cloke for ambition.
• * 1.98

  In the second edition of the answere to the Admonition.
• * 1.99

  Note the milde∣nesse of the ••an in this section. A charitable surmise.
• * 1.100

  Other simili∣tudes might haue beseemed you better.
• * 1.101

  The sword of discipline ne∣cessarily cal∣led for.
• * 1.102

  In his Epi∣stle before his booke called Ecclesiastes.
• a 1.103

  1. Thes. 5. 21 Iam. 1. 19. 20 Iam.▪ 2. 1.
• b 1.104

  Math. 15. 23 Luc. 16. 15.
• c 1.105

  Mat, 20. 25. 26. Mat. 23. 8. 9 10. Mar. 10. 42. 43. Luc. 22. 15. &c.
• d 1.106

  Mat. 24 48 49.
• e 1.107

  Math. 9. 37. 38. Ephe. 4. 11. 12.
• f 1.108

  Mat. 18. 15. 16. 17.
• g 1.109

  Pro. 29. 18. Amos. 8. 11. 12. &c. Ma. 21. 23. &c. 1. Cor. 11. 30
• h 1.110

  Mat. 10. 16. 26.
• i 1.111

  Esai. 59. 1.
• k 1.112

  Exo. 23. 1. 2. Mat. 7. 1. 2. Iam 4. 11. 12
• l 1.113

  1. Cor. 5. 20 1. Cor. 7. 27
• m 1.114

  Psal. 50. 15. Mat. 7. 7. 1. Tim. 2. 1. 2