The defense of the aunsvvere to the Admonition against the replie of T.C. By Iohn VVhitgift Doctor of Diuinitie. In the beginning are added these. 4. tables. 1 Of dangerous doctrines in the replie. 2 Of falsifications and vntruthes. 3 Of matters handled at large. 4 A table generall.

Io. Whitgifte.

I speake not here of the doctrine of the Anabaptists which is the certaine note wher∣by they may be knowne: but of their other qualities and manner of talke and Prea∣ching. The wordes be M. Bullingers, they be not mine. The argumentes framed, be yours, and neither his nor mine.

Your disciples magnifie you, bicause your vsuall talke both publike and priuate, is* 1.1 against the Ministers of the Church, against their calling, against their preaching, a∣gainst their life. &c. which you doe not to reforme them (for you doe it in their absence and to the people) but to deface them, and to discredite them: not to promote the Gos∣pell (which they preache as diligently and syncerely as you doe) but to bring them in∣to hatred with the people, whereby you might the rather preuaile in your enterpri∣ses:

not to reforme their manners (for they maye compare wyth you in all kynde of honestie and dutie) but to erpresse your malice and wrathe: for that whiche Zuin∣glius* 1.2 in Elench. contra Anabap. speaketh of them, (It is melancholie and wrathe, not true zeale of whiche they glorie) maye be truly verified of you, and thereof let thys your booke be iudge.

Nowe if I say, that in this poynte you agrée with the Anabaptistes, I doe not therefore straighteway conclude that you are Anabaptistes: but thys I conclude, that you are not for suche inuemues to bée estéemed as more pure in deede than your brethren, nor they thorough suche slaunde〈1 line〉〈1 line〉os speaches of yours to bée discredi∣ted: bycause herein you speake or practise nothyng agaynste the true Ministers of the woorde of God, but that whyche the Anabaptistes haue doone in the selfe same forme and manner before you. And that these be qualities woorthie to bée obserued in the Anabaptistes, and suche as procéede in lyke manner, it may ap∣peare not onely by this obseruation of M. Buliinger, but: of other learned and Godlie menne also, that haue written agaynste them, and giuen notes of their qualities. Zuinglius in his Booke before named sayth, That they speake euyll bothe* 1.3 of the Ciuill Magistrate, and of the ministers of the Churche, that if at anye tyme eyther of them accordyng to theyr office, reproue them, then they streyghtwaye saye that therefore they bee enimyes vnto them, bycause they tell them of theyr faul∣tes: And in his Ecclesiast. he sayeth thus of them 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. They so slaunder, reuyle, and backebyte the Ministers of the woorde, and of the Churche, that they oughte to be suspected and hated of all Godlye menne: euen for theyr slaunderous and curssed speakyng. But theyr ende and purpose is, by thys meanes to wynne credite vnto them selues, and to discredite suche as sette them selues agaynste them, and detecte theyr erroures. The lyke saying he hathe in hys booke De. Baptismo. To the same effecte also speaketh Gastius of them in his Booke De exordio & erroribus Catabap.* 1.4 where among other sentences he hath thys: Theyr talke vttereth nothyng else but reprehension of the Ministers of the worde, and libertie in externall things. Now iudge I praye you, whether this hath ben a qualitie woorthie to bée obserued in the Ana∣baptistes or no?

I doe not speake agaynste suche as modestly and accordyng to the rule of the Apostle. 1. Tunoth. 5. doo reproue any, but agaynste those that haue nothing else in theyr mouthes, but inuectiues agaynste the Ministers of the woorde, obseruyng neyther place, tyme, nor anye other circumstances, whome I still say in this poynt to be fitly compared to the Anabaptists.

Nowe whether it bée my Logike, or yours that you gyue a taste of in thys place∣lette the learned Reader iudge, to whome also I committe the tryall of thys spy∣rite of yours, whyche bursteth out in suche vnséemely manner, vpon the consy∣deration of your owne deuysed argumentes, to féede your contempte and disdayne with. In déede if you make argumentes where I make none, and if you frame them as it pleaseth you, no meruayle it is though you make a long booke, and cause your Reader to beleeue, that my Logicke is as simple as you woulde haue it. But deale with mée vprightly and honestly, and then set downe my vnskilfulnesse, and spare not, as I trust you woulde doo to the vttermost in euery poynt, if you could, séeing that you doe it where there is no occasion at all offered vnto you by mée, but imagined of youre selfe. Well, let these quarelles goe, more méete to be among boyes than among men. Gratia Dei sum quod sum, neyther haue I any thing but that whiche I haue receyued of him from whom commeth all good things.

Bothe of the election of ministers, and of excommunication what I thynke, I will declare God willing in their proper places. The woordes here by me alledged (as I haue saide) are Master Bullingers, and they be truly spoken, and to good purpose as there it shall appeare. In the meane while I referre you for that of the Magi∣strate in electing of ministers, to the 87. and 88. leaues of that his Booke Aduersus Anabap. and for that of excommunication to the. 233. and. 234. leafe of the same Booke.

You denye, that you saye, there is no lawfull or no ordinarye callyng of Mynisters in Englande, whych is a strange hearyng to mée: for wherevnto then tendeth all that whych is wrytten in your Booke touching the electing and calling of Ministers? or* 1.5 that which is written in the fyrst Admonition Folio. 9▪ where they say in playne ter∣mes, that wee haue neyther a ryghte Ministerie of God, nor a righte gouernement of hys Churche. And Folio. 34. 35. 36. &c Folio 157. where they saye, that thys prescripte forme of Seruice vsed in this Churche of Englande mayntayneth an vnlawfull▪ Ministerie: or that whyche is so bytterly spoken agaynst the Booke of orderyng▪ Ministers and Deacons, whyche they call the Pontificall? But you saye that he may be law∣fully called, whyche is not ordinarilye. I woulde haue you to speake playnely. Is our calling to the Ministerie here in England lawful, but not ordinarie? If it be law∣full, then is it not agaynste the woorde of God, neyther is there any Lawe in the Scriptures to the contrarie, as you woulde make vs to beléeue. But tru∣ly. I thynke that you were not here well aduysed, or else haue you some suttle meaning, for you adde immediately, that there be places in Englande where the Mini∣sters are called by theyr Parishes. &c. So that I suppose you meane, that in some Pa∣rishes of Englande, there is a lawfull callyng of Ministers: if it bée so, then is it not withstanding truly sayde, that you denie the maner of callyng Ministers in this Churche of Englande to be lawfull: for that maner of callyng is not to be ascribed to this Churche, which is vsed in some conuenticles and secrete congregations, but that which is allowed by publike and common authoritie.

Your distinction of lawfull and ordinarie is not simply good, for whatsoeuer is law∣full* 1.6 in a Church established, that is ordinarie: I think that euen very cōmon reason dothe teache this to be true. Wherfore certaynly if our ministerie bée lawfull, it is ordinarie. If any Parishe in Englande doe electe or call their ministers other∣wyse than the orders and Lawes of thys Churche dothe permitte, I can not sée howe that Parishe can excuse it selfe of schisme, and I thinke verilye, that suche Pa∣rishes ought to bée looked too in tyme.

I doe not well vnderstande▪ what you meane by these wordes, in suche sorte as the examples of the Scripture doe shewe to haue bene doone, before the Eldership and go∣uernmente of the Churche bee established. What examples bée these? you quote no places where to fynde them▪ Or when was the gouernmente of the Churche and Eldershyp established? If you had more playnly expressed these two thyngs, wée myghte haue the better vnderstoode youre meanyng. But belyke these Parishes doo not call theyr Ministers in all poyntes accordyng to the rule that you woulde haue prescribed, and therfore you make an Interim of it, vntill your gouernment be fully finished. This is your dealyng to allowe of all things doone out of order: yea though it bée against your owne order, so that it tende to the derogation of pu∣blike and common order.

Whether they saye, that the Gospell is not truely preached in this Churche of Eng∣lande* 1.7 or no, looke in the whole discourse of their booke: and in the seconde Admoni∣tion page. 6. where you may fynde these wordes, I saye that we are so scarce come to the outwarde face of a Churche ryghtely reformed, that althoughe some truthe be taught by some preachers, yet no preacher maye without greate daunger of the Lawes, vtter all truth compri∣sed in the booke of God, it is so circumscribed and wrapte within the compasse of suche statutes, suche penalties, suche imunctions, suche Aduertisementes, suche Articles, suche sober Caueats,* 1.8 and suche manyfolde pamphlets, that in manner it dothe but peepe out from behynd the screene. What say you to these wordes? how can you salue them?

Whether they generally call all the Ministers of the Gospell which be not on their secte Phariseys or no, lette the whole discourse of bothe the Admonitions iudge, and that Pamphlet entituled, An exhortation to the Bishops to deale brotherlye with theyr brethren: In my answer to which pāphlet, I proue that this name Pharisey doth much more aptely agrée vnto the Authors thereof, and suche lyke, than to the Bishops and other ministers, whome they so often call by that name, and so odiously compare them together in that pamphlet.

I must once tell you agayne, that I make no argumentes here, I doe but onely compare their qualities and conditions: I haue performed my promise, if I 〈◊〉〈◊〉 not, shewe me wherin. I peruert not the meaning of the Anabaptistes▪ but set down the verie woordes of M. Bullinger worde for worde, without any addition, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉∣tion, or alteration: it had bene well if you had examined the places better.

Touchyng the falsification, and vntruthe you charge mée with, I thynke you be not in good earnest, it is but bycause you could no longer temper your heate: for you make manie of these outcryes, but I suppose you vse them only as meanes to caste vp your melancholie, whyche you call zeale. Whatsoeuer I there speake of the Anabaptistes, I fyndeit in the same forme of woordes in those leaues of M Bul∣lingers booke, whiche I haue quoted in the Margent. Pervse with a little more di∣ligence Fol. 18. where he hath these wordes: Quod stipendia babeant, & non laborent, atque ideo ventris ministri sunt, and the. 102. And if you fynd not there word for worde all this that I haue here spoken, touchyng the stipendes and liuings of ministers, and in the same forme of wordes, then vse your hotte Rhetorike: but I knowe they* 1.9 be there, and you reproue you can not tell what. If this so greately trouble you, I wil tell you what Zuinglius also sayth of this matter in his Ecclesi istes, where he spea∣king of Anabaptists sayth thus: They teach that suche can not preache the Gospell syncerely, whiche haue benefices, but their hope is to haue the true Pastors expelled, that they may succeede in their places, and yet they publikely protest that they seeke for no li∣uing. Nowe whether you or your men agrée with them in this poynt or no, I ney∣ther* 1.10 denie nor affirme: if you be prickte, I can not blame you thoughe you kicke. Neither do I say, that those ought to haue stipends which labour not, I do but report Bullingers wordes of the Anabaptistes, I woulde haue no man exempted from due re∣prehension: I only reporte this to shewe the malitious spirites of the Anabaptistes agaynst the ministers of the woorde, that it maye be knowne of what societie they may bée suspected to bée, whose talke is wholly bente against the Ministers of the woorde of God.

That you giue too little to Magistrates it shall be shewed in place.

Though you bée wearie, it is no meruayle, for it gréeueth you to bée touched so narrowly: And surely if you vse no cleanlyer termes than you doe in this place, or continue in pouring oute your choler in suche aboundance, you will tyre mée also, or euer I make an ende.

Whatsoeuer I haue here spoken of the Anabaptistes is moste true, and therefore no slaunder.

Notes

• * 1.1

  They seke not the reformatiō but the diffa∣mation of mi∣nisters.
• * 1.2

  〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 Anabap.
• * 1.3

  Ibidem Why the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 speake euill of magistrate〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Idem in 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉les
• * 1.4

  Gastiu〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• * 1.5

  F〈1 line〉〈1 line〉st Admo∣nition contra∣rie to T. C.
• * 1.6

  Lauful is or∣dinarie in a Church esta∣blished.
• * 1.7

  The Admo∣mtors denye the Gospell to be truly prea∣ched in Eng∣lande.
• * 1.8

  Seconde Ad∣monition pag. 6.
• * 1.9

  〈◊◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊◊〉 Idem 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• * 1.10

  Zuingl. in Eccles.