A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

ANSWER.

The Church whereof Christ said, Math. 28.20. I am alwaies with you to the consummation of the world, is the Church of the [ D] holy Apostles, & of Pastors and Beleeuers succeeding them in the same Faith and Religion: and this is a principall part (for the Catholicke Church in generall containes all Faithfull and iust persons, from Abel a, &c.) of the Church in the Creed. Secondly, some part of the Catholicke Church of the Creed, is alwaies visible in the world, sometimes in an ampler, some∣times in a smaller number of Professours. Also the visibilitie thereof, is at sometimes illustrious and notorious, and at other times it is obscure, according to the state of Persecution b. Thirdly, to forsake the true Church in the maine and pri∣marie [ E] Articles of Faith, or by any wilfull infidelitie, is dam∣nable: and all people which desire Saluation, must actually (if it be possible) or Voto, in case of necessitie, conioine themselues to some part of the Orthodoxall Catholicke Church c.

But our Sauiour promised to no one visible Sea or Church, [ A] continuing after the Apostles by succession of Bishops, abso∣lute immunitie from all Errour, and infallibilitie of Veritie; but only presentiall assistance, and protection of. Grace, suffici∣cient for the saluation of his people, vpon condition, to wit, when the said Pastours taught and obserued that which he commanded, and continued in the right vse of those meanes which he had deposed among them, Ioh. 8.31, 32. Rom. 11. 22. Read before in this Treatise, pag. 94.99.

The Testimonies of S. Augustine a obiected by the Ad∣uersarie, which are, That the Catholick Church, is the body of [ B] Christ, whereof he is head: and that out of this bodie, the holy Ghost quickeneth no man, make altogether against him∣selfe; for none are vitall members of Christs mysticall body, but iust and holy persons. And it is the same Fathers doctrine b, Impij non sunt reuera Corpus Christi, wicked persons are not in deed and veritie Christs bodie. And in another place, In corpo∣re Christi non sunt quod est Ecclesia, quoniam non potest Christus ha∣bere membra damnata c, They are not in Christs bodie, which is the Church, because Christ cannot haue damnable members. [ C] And Bernard d saith, Manifestum est, non esse Caput Hypochritae Christum, It is euident, that Christ is not the head of an Hypo∣chrite. But the visible Rulers of the Popish Church haue many times bin (as our Aduersaries themselues report) not only Hy∣pochrites, but apparantly monstrous and damnable sinners e, therefore they are not the Catholicke Church, out of which no Saluation can be had f, neither is perpetuall influence and assistance of Grace absolutely intailed vpon them.

Out of the former premises, I argue thus:

Wolues, Hipochrites, and impious persons are not the holy Ca∣tholicke Church of the Creed, out of which there is no Saluation.

Romish Prelats haue beene Wolues, Hypocrites, and impious men, for they haue maintained false and superstitious Doctrine, repugnant to the holy Scripture, and aduerse to the Faith of the Primitiue Church (which Protestants haue, and are againe [ E] readie to demonstrate) and they haue beene most notorious, for all kind of abhominable vices (as Romists themselues haue pub∣lished to the World) and they haue also most iniustly and tyrani∣cally persecuted and oppressed true beleeuers, Ergo,

Romish Prelats are not the holy Catholicke Church of the [ A] Creed, out of which there is no Saluation.

Argument 2. Out of the holy Catholicke Church of the Creed there is no Saluation.

Out of the fellowship of the Roman Church there hath beene, and is Saluation. Ergo

The present Roman Church is not the holy Catholicke Church of the Creed.

And thus the Obiector hath gained nothing by accusing our Church of fundamentall error, and his nine Accusations [ B] are prooued to be so many calumniations: and we neither erre fundamentally in any maine Article, nor yet pertinaciously or maliciously against any other Christian veritie. For although whiles we liue in the world, tenebras huius mortalitatis circumfe∣rimus, (as S. Augustine speaketh) we carrie about vs (in regard of our selues) the darkenes of mortalitie, tamen ad Scripturae lucer∣nam ambulamus, yet we studie carefully to walke according to the true light of holy Scripture, and God hath hitherto so as∣sisted vs, that the euill eye of our Aduersaries, is not able to dis∣couer in our Doctrine any capitall Error: neuerthelesse, if vp∣on [ C] further inquisition, they shall make it appeare by diuine te∣stimonie, or other sufficient proofe, that we are deceiued in any matter of Faith, small or great, we will be as 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to reforme our selues, as they are readie to accuse vs. And in all differences betweene them and vs, we submit our selues to a free, lawfull, generall Councell, to be tried by the rule of Gods word; con∣cerning which S. Augustine saith a, Extat authoritas diuinarum Scripturarum, vndè mens nostra deuiare non debet, nec relicto solida∣mento diuini eloquij, per suspitionum suarum abrupta praecipitari, There is extant, the sacred authoritie of diuine Scripture, from [ D] whence wee may not deuiate, nor forsaking the infallible ground of Gods word, be carried into the precipicies of mens fancies. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, (saith great Athanasius, b) The sacred Scriptures, giuen by diuine inspiration, are all-sufficient of themselues, to the de∣monstration of (sacred) verity. But a theefe (saith Chrisostome c) entreth not into the sheepfould by the testimonie of the Scrip∣tures, which are called a doore, & that most iustly, because they leade vs to God, and manifest diuine knowledge to vs, they make vs Christs sheep, and preserue vs, so as wolues cannot rush [ E] in vpon vs. But he that vseth not the holy Scripture, but climeth in some other way, that is a way not permitted, the same is a theefe. Now Protestants follow the Scriptures, and Romists enterby humane Traditions.

Notes

• a

  Aug. Enchir. c. 56. & 〈◊〉〈◊〉 61. Idem. sup. 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉. & sup. Psalm 90. Gregor. Moral. li. 4. c. 10.
• b

  Whitaker. d. Ecclesia cap. 2. q 3. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. non omni∣bus quidem, sed ijs tantum, quibus∣cum rem habent, & qui rectè de religi∣one iudicare possūt.
• c

  Read before pa. 7.50.61.
• a

  Aug. epist. 50. Idem. d. vnit. Eccles. ca. 16.
• b

  Aug. d. Doctr. Christ. li. 3. c. 32.
• c

  Idem. sup. ep. Ioh. tr. 3. & in psal. 131. In hijs est do∣mus Dei, quos prae∣destinauit, & prae∣sciuit perseueratu∣ros. Et in Psalm. 47. Proefat. Secundam Sabbathi non de∣bemus intelligere, nisi Ecciesiā Chri∣sti: sed Ecclesiam Christi in sanctis, Ecclesiam Christi in hijs qui scripti sunt in Coelo, Ecclesiā Christi in hijs qui mundi huius tentationibus non cedunt.
• d

  Bernard. in 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 1.
• e

  Read before pa. 5.57. 111.112.113.
• f

  Aug. c. Crescon. lib. 2. c. 21. Omnia ista monstra, absit omni∣nò [ D] vt in membris illius columbae vnicae 〈◊〉〈◊〉, absit vt intrare possint limites horti conclusi, cuius ille custos est, qui non potest falli.
• Read before in this 〈◊〉〈◊〉, pag. 111. 112.113.
• Read before in this Treatise, pag. 1.2.
• Aug. d. Tem. serm. 237.
• a

  Aug d. Trinit. li. 3. ea. 11.
• b

  Athan. orat. c. Gent. Greg. Moral. li. 18. c. 14. Si rectè loqui desiderāt, in∣dè sumere debent, quid loquātur. Am∣bros. Hexam. li. 2. c. 2. Nos 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Scripturarum coe∣lestium magifterio.
• c

  Chrys. in Ioan Hom. 58.