A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

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A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*
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White, Francis, 1564?-1638.
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London :: Printed by Adam Islip,
1624.
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Subject terms
Fisher, John, 1569-1641 -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Church of England -- Apologetic works -- Early works to 1800.
Catholic Church -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Cite this Item
"A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A15082.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 23, 2024.

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ANSWER.

Although the teaching and Tradition of the Church, is the first Introduction, to leade people vnto the knowledge of the grounds of saluation, and the ordinarie meanes whereby they receiue the holy Scriptures, and rule of Faith contai∣ned in the same (which is all you haue or can prooue f) yet hence it followeth not, that the true Church is visibly vniuer∣sall [ E] in all places of the world.

First, you are reprooued by the example of the Indians, and

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people inhabiting the New found World who are Gods crea∣tures [ A] and reasonable men, formed 〈◊〉〈◊〉 his image, capable of grace and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 as well as other men, and included within the latitude of 〈◊〉〈◊〉 promises, a Math. 28.19. Marc. 16.15. Call. 2.28. Call. 3.11, and the Apostles speech, 1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 4. God will 〈◊〉〈◊〉 all men to be 〈◊〉〈◊〉 &c, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 them as well as others. And yet notwithstanding, the true Church whose Tradition (according to your position) is the sole ordinarie meanes to ground Faith on, was not for many ages either Actu∣ally or Moraily visible, vniuersall, or any waies made knowne to them. [ B]

It seemes by the conclusion of your Argument, wherein you insert these words, That all knowne nations, &c. that you obserued this, but you are no way able to cleere the difficultie: for if because S. Paul saith, God wil haue all men to be saued, and come to the knowledge of the Truth, the true Church must in all age be visibly vniuersall, then the same must be so in regard of the na∣tions inhabiting the New found world, because S. Pauls words, God will haue all men to be saued, and come to the knowledge of the Truth, are vniuersall (according to your exposition) and must be vnderstood without limitation, or respect of persons. [ C]

Secondly, when S. Paul saith, God wil haue all men to be saued, &c. He 〈◊〉〈◊〉 according to the antecedent wil of God (as learned Papists commonly maintaine.) But b this antecedent Will (ac∣cording to some learned Papists) is no formall Will in God, but is only improperly and metaphorically so called c and ac∣cording to others, which say it is a formall Will, the same pro∣duceth not vniuersally either grace of outward calling to Saluation, or inward grace in them that are externally called, and therefore it is inconsequent to argue, from this manner of [ D] Gods willing all men to be saued, That the true Church is in all ages visibly vniuersall. 1. Aquinas, and others say, that the antecedent will of God is only a velleitie d or wishing that the thing might be, a complacencie in a thing considered ab∣stractiuely and without other circumstances e, and that vpon it alone the Saluation of no man followeth. 2. The same is ge∣nerall in respect of all f and euery singular and indiuiduall per∣son, and God by his antecedent will wisheth the Saluation of

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〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 [ A] 〈◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊〉 by experience, that 〈◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊〉 Will, all 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and singular persons: 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 by the ministerie of the true Church and that whole countries and nations for 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ages 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 of the same, a and some countries 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 the preaching of the Gospell sooner, and others latter, some haue been 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in one age, and some in another. 4. Gods antecedent Will is alwaies the same: and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to it he 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the Saluation of all men in the time of the Old Testa∣ment, Ezek. 33.11. [ B]

Now from the former positions, it followeth, that S. Pauls words, 1. Tim. 2.4. God will haue all men to be saued, &c. do not 〈◊〉〈◊〉 that the true Church is visibly vniuersall in all [ C] ages, since the Ascension of Christ, and the preaching of the Apostles.

For if the antecedent will of God (of which S. Paul spea∣keth, 1. Tim. 2.4.) be onely a velleitie and complacencie about mans Saluation abstractiuely considered b and if it respect sin∣gular and indiuiduall persons as well as whole nations, and not∣withstanding the same, many singular persons and whole nati∣ons haue beene destitute (and that for a long space of time) of all meanes of conuersion and outward calling to Christianitie: and if the same Will, for some large tract of time, produceth [ D] no external effect sufficient to conuert Infidels c, then it follow∣eth that the true Church, which is the onely ordinarie teacher of sauing veritie, is not visibly vniuersall in all places of the world in euery age.

The minor is prooued from the foure propositions former∣ly deliuered. [ E]

The sequell is euident by the exposition which our Aduer∣saries deliuer of S. Pauls text, vnderstanding the same of the antecedent will of God, and from the position of the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 deliuered in this section, which is, That the Tradition and Prea∣ching of the true visible Church, is the sole ordinarie meanes to leade

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people to the knowledge of sauing Truth. For if the antecedent will [ A] of God is not a certaine and infallible cause, that all people shal at all times haue the preaching of sauing Veritie by the mini∣sterie of the true visible Church: then it is not necessarie, that because God will haue all men to be saued by his antecedent will, therefore the true Church must in all ages be visibly vni∣uersall.

A contingent cause vndetermined, doth not produce or argue a constant, certaine, and necessarie effect.

The antecedent will of God is a contingent cause a in respect of the perpetuall visible vniuersalitie of the Church. Ergo [ B]

The antecedent will of God doth not produce or argue a perpetuall visible vniuersalitie of the Church.

For if notwithstanding the antecedent will of God, many singular persons and whole nations may be for some space of time destitute of outward calling by the ministerie of the [ C] Church, and of all morall possibilitie for that space of time of the hauing thereof, and are not guiltie of the sinne of infideli∣tie, because without any speciall demerit of their owne, they are destitute of the word of Faith, (as it is maintained by Aqui∣nas b and his followers) then the antecedent will of God is only a contingent cause, in respect of producing & arguing out∣ward calling by the ministerie of the Church, and consequent∣ly of the perpetuall visible vniuersalitie of the true Church.

But the first is true, as appeareth by the Indies c before Co∣lumbus arriuing in their coasts, and by many barbarous people [ D] and nations liuing in remote regions, and hauing no preachers of the Gospell sent vnto them, before the two hundred, fiue hundred, or six hundred yeare after Christ, Ergo,

The latter is also true.

Notes

  • f

    Cassand. def. Iib. d. Offic. Pij. Viri. pag. 821. A quibus hanc Tra∣ditionem accepimus, testes sunt 〈◊〉〈◊〉, caelestis Doctrinae.

  • a

    〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 recte dici 〈◊〉〈◊〉 iftos ad promissio∣nem Dei 〈◊〉〈◊〉 per∣tinere. Non enim Romanos sed om∣nes genres Domi∣nus, semini 〈◊〉〈◊〉, media 〈◊〉〈◊〉 iuratione 〈◊〉〈◊〉.

  • b

    Aquinas p. 1. q. 19. ar. 6. ad. 1. & 1. sent. d. 47. ar. 2. & d. verit. q. 23. ar. 3. Ri∣chard. 1.47. ar. 1. q. 1. Scot. 1. d. 46. q. vnic. Occham, Gabriel. lb. q. 1. Bonauent. Du∣rand. Herueus, Ca∣preolus.

  • c

    Soto. Maior. com. 1. Tim. 2.4. pa. 274. De voluntate antecedenti, id est imaginaria & secū∣dum quid, impro∣priè vel metapho∣ricè dicta. Bannes 1. q. 19. art. 6. Zumel. 1. q. 19. art. 6.

  • d

    〈◊〉〈◊〉 1. q. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. ar. 6. ad. 1. Magis dici 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. lb. pa. 595. Voluntas [ E] 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 semper est voluntas inefficax, siue secundum quid, quae vocatur velleitas.

  • e

    〈◊〉〈◊〉. in. 1. p. Tho. q. 19. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 6. Disp. 56. nu. 18. Pius d. Ponte Ibid. dub. 3. Cordub. lib. 1. q. 56. Aluar. d. Auxil. disp. 34. nu. 3. Meclin. in. 1. p. Tho. q. 19. art. 6. sect. 2.

  • f

    Chrys. sup. Rom. Serm. 2. Quemadmodùm enim in Sole & Lu∣na, 〈◊◊◊◊〉〈◊◊◊◊〉, vbi neque 〈◊〉〈◊〉 neque 〈◊〉〈◊〉 amplius aliquid contributum est, sed aequa omnibus concessa fruitio: ita & in Euangelica doctrina, imò in hac tantò plenius quantò illa reliquis om∣nibus necessaria magis 〈◊〉〈◊〉.

  • a

    Prosper. d. lib. arb. ad Ruffin. Ne∣que enim remotum est ab inspectione communi quot se∣culis, quam innu∣mera 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 lia 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 vera cognitione defecerint. Aug. epist. 80. Sunt apud nos hoc est in Africa Barbarae 〈◊〉〈◊〉 gentes, in quibus nondum est praedicatum 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Id. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 78. Quantae 〈◊〉〈◊〉 adhuc 〈◊〉〈◊〉 sine 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Euangelio, &c. Quod remansit gentium, vbi nondum est Euangelium praedicatum. Origen. in Math. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 28. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 non 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉, sed etiam nostrarum gentium, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 nunc non 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Christianitatis verbunt. Non∣dum est praedicatum Euangelium regni in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 orbe. Quid autem dicamus de Britannis, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Germanis, qui 〈◊〉〈◊〉 circa 〈◊〉〈◊〉 apud Barbaros, Dacos, & 〈◊〉〈◊〉, & Scythas, quorum 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 audierunt 〈◊〉〈◊〉 gelij verbum, &c.

  • b

    〈◊〉〈◊〉. d. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 disp. 34. nu. 3. Si consideretur falus reproborum secun∣dum se & absolutè sic est à Deo 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Si autem 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 quod 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 pri∣uationem, 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 splendoris 〈◊〉〈◊〉 eius in electis sic non est volita à Deo.

  • c

    Lichet 2. sent. d. 47. q. vnic. Velle 〈◊〉〈◊〉 quo ita placet volitum, quod tamen voluntas tale volitum non ponat in esse licet posset ponere illud in esse.

  • a

    〈◊〉〈◊〉. quest. 1. Schol. d. diu. vol. ar. 7. nu. 5. Cōtingentia dicitur de omni 〈◊〉〈◊〉 quod potest esse & non esse, &c. Nequè opus est vt in hac latitudine denotet imperfectionem aliquam seu mutabilitatem, sed causam ità potentem operari vt in eius voluntate sit operari, aut non operari, Scotus. dist. 39. q. Vnic. Voluntas diuina nihil aliud re∣spicit necessario pro obiecto, ab essentia sua: ad quodlibet igitur aliud contingentèr se habet.

  • b

    Aquinas. 22. q. 10. ar. 1. Bannes. lb. Victoria. d. Indis. Relect. 5. nu. 8.

  • c

    Acosta. d. proc. Indorum. Sal. li. 1. c. 5. p. 133. Multos esse homines suis tene∣bris relictos, occul∣to Dei, veroquè 〈◊〉〈◊〉, negare non possumus, ne{que} ho∣mines modo, sed & familias, & vrbes, & integras saepe prouincias & gentes. Qui & olim fuerunt & nunc vsquè sunt sine Chri∣sto, &c.

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