A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

ANSVVER. [ A]

Your former Proposition, concerning the perpetuall locall vniuersalitie of the Church, is as cleare, as the Sunne-shine at midnight; and the Arguments whereby you labour to prooue it, are of no force.

First, if it were granted that the true Church, in the raigne of Antichrist, should bee visibly vniuersall; yet it is inconse∣quent: Ergo, The true Chnrch is perpetually and in all ages [ B] visibly vniuersall. Separable accidents are sometimes present to the subiect, and sometimes absent: but visible vniuersalitie is a separable accident, as appeareth by the state of the true Church, in the first hundred yeere a 1.1.

Secondly, the words of Saint Iohn, Apoc. 20. 8. are: And when the thousand yeeres shall be consummate, Satan shall be loosed out [ C] of his prison, and shall goe foorth and seduce the nations which are vp∣on the foure corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, and shall gather them into battell, the number of whom is as the sand of the Sea.

In this Prophesie, nothing is deliuered which doth expresly or by consequence argue the visible vniuersalitie of the true Church in all ages. 1. The nations which are vpon the foure corners of the earth seduced by Satan, may be Infidels b 1.2, at least a great part of them, as well as Christians: and although Satan possessed & deceiued them before, yet now when he is loosed, he doth in a new manner, and by a greater efficacie of errour de∣ceiue [ D] them c 1.3. 2. The true Church may be persecuted vni∣uersally by multitudes of enemies dispersed euery where, and yet remaine it selfe, in one or in few places; and it may also be persecuted, when it professeth and exerciseth religion in secret, Apoc. 12.14, 15. 3. Many learned Papists affirme, that in the dayes of Antichrist, true beleeuers shall cease to bee in many places, and the number of orthodoxall people shall be small, and the same shall professe their faith in secret, August. Tri∣umph, d 1.4 sum. d. Eccles. pot. q. 21. ar. 4. At that time particular Churches diffused farre and neere ouer the world, shall withdraw them∣selwes [ E] from the obedience of the Romane Pope, and few shall obey him, and the Pope himselfe at that time, shall with a few keepe himselfe

〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 the 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉〈◊〉, others being 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 from his 〈◊〉〈◊〉. [ A] The like is affirmed by Occham a 1.5, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 b 1.6, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 c 1.7 〈◊〉〈◊〉 d 1.8, and Barradias e 1.9. Now this former affertion, which is the common Tener of Papists, agreeth not with the speech of our Aduersarie, when he saith, That in the dayes of Antichrist, the Church shall be euerie where visible and con∣spicuous, euen to the wicked: and he must reuoke his bold 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 in his first words; A truth so cleare that it may euidently be prooued, &c.

Notes

• a 1.1

  Card. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Theolog. institut. compend. c. 37. Ecclesia tamen nostra licet à sui exordio semper fuerit Catholica & vniuersalis, vniuersitate puri∣tatis, sanctitatis, & veritatis: non tamen 〈◊〉〈◊〉 dilatationis.
• b 1.2

  Riber. in Apoc. c. 20. p. 399. Seducet 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ex vni∣uersis orbis partib' multos, & in ijs Gog & Magog, &c.
• c 1.3

  Dionis. Carthus. in Apoc. 20. ar. 21.
• d 1.4

  Aug. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Illo 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉, Glossa dicit, par∣ticulares Ecclesiae vndique per orbem diffusae subtrahent se ab obedientia Romani Pontificis, ita 〈◊〉〈◊〉 pauci ei obediant & Papa tunc temporis circa partes Italiae se recludet cum paucis, alijs ab obedientia eius substractis.
• a 1.5

  Occham. dial. p. 1. l. 5. c. 30.
• b 1.6

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. sum. d. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. c. 30.
• c 1.7

  Caiet. Luc. 18. v. 8.
• d 1.8

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. d. Antichristo li. 8. c. 8. 9.12.
• e 1.9

  Barrad. Harm. Euang. tb. 3. lib. 4. cap. 12. Hieron. sup.-Soph. c. 2. De Ecclesia videtur prima fronte esse blasphemum, quod ea futura fit inuia, & de∣serta [ B] & bestiae habitent in ea, &c. Sed si quis considerauerir 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Apostolicum in quo dicitur, in nouisimis temporibus instabunt tempora pesima, &c. Necnon quod in Euangelio Scriptum est, quod multiplicata iniqui∣tate 〈◊〉〈◊〉 charitas multorum, in tantum vt illo tempore compleatur verumamen veniens filius homi∣nis putas 〈◊〉〈◊〉 fidem super terram? non mirabitur de extrema Ecclesiae vestitate quae regnante Antichristo tradenda sit in solitudinem, &c.