A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

ANSWER.

Out of your owne fancies you may conclude what you please: but from the Fathers nothing can be concluded, repug∣nant to that which Protestants hold, concerning the perspicui∣ty [ D] of sacred Scripture, euen in it selfe. Ireneus saith a 1.1, All the Scrip∣tures both Propheticall and Euangelicall, are cleere without ambiguity, and may indifferently bee heard of all men. S. Hierom b 1.2, It is the manner of the Scripture to ioine that which is manifest to such things as are obscure. S. Cyril c 1.3, That they may be knowne of all people both small and great, they are profitably commended vnto vs in a famili∣ar kind of speaking, that they may exceed the capacitie of none. S. Augustine d 1.4, Plaine places are found in them to expound and open the darke and hard. S. Gregorie e 1.5, The Scripture hath so much in

open 〈◊〉〈◊〉 as may feed little ones. S. Chrysoft. a 1.6, Scriptures are 〈◊〉〈◊〉 [ A] like mettals, which haue need of workemen to digge them out, but they deliuer a treasure readie at hand, for them which seeke hidden riches in them. It is sufficient to looke into them, that you may depart repleni∣shed with all fruit, it is sufficient onely to open them, that you may pre∣sently behold the splendor of their pearles. And although the anti∣ent Fathers do many times referre people to Tradition b 1.7 espe∣cially in three cases: First, For the testifying of the number and integritie of the Bookes of Canonical Scripture: Second∣ly, For the cleering of some hard or ambiguous Texts of Scrip∣ture, from the new and forged expositions of Heretickes: [ B] Thirdly, For externall rites and ceremonies: yet neither the Fathers, nor the more learned Papists themselues c 1.8, do hold that there is a large and general Commentarie of all the Scriptures, or of all the difficill places thereof, receiued from the Apo∣stles, and preserued vntill our daies; neither doe the Fathers d 1.9 hold, that people cannot read the holy Scripture with profit, or collect the true meaning of them in points substantiall and necessarie, without such a Commentarie.

First, If such a Commentarie were extant, it must be found in the elder Fathers, Tertullian, Ireneus, Origen, &c. But the Pa∣pists [ C] themselues e 1.10 will not alwaies be tied to their Expositi∣ons, as appeareth by their forsaking of Tertullian in the Expo∣sition of the wordes of the Gospell, Hoc est corpus meum f 1.11, This is my bodie; and by their forsaking of Origen g 1.12 in many of his Expositions; and againe of Tertullian h 1.13 in his Expositi∣on of Math. 16. 17.

Secondly, The Exposition of Scripture, giuen by the Fa∣thers, is many times repugnant, and different each of them from other, as Sixtus Senensis in his Bibliotheca, and Cardinall

〈◊〉〈◊〉 in his Commentaries, and other Pontificians doe shew, a 1.14 [ A] but if there had beene a large and generall Commentarie of Scripture, or of all, or most of the harder places of Scripture, the antient Fathers, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 nearest vpon the Apostles, must haue knowne and followed that, and so could neither haue er∣red in exposition, nor differed one for the other.

Thirdly, the Fathers affirme; that the Scripture expounds it selfe; Aug. d. verb. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Serm. 2. a 1.15 & d. vnit. Eccles. c. 5. p. 427. Chrys. sup. Gen. Hom. 13. b 1.16 And they doe not alwayes referre men to Tradition, concerning exposition of Scripture, but pre∣scribe other rules and meanes also. Aug. d, Doctr. Christ. l. 4. c. 30. [ B] &c. Chrys. sup. Gen. Hom. 21. & sup. Rom. Hom. 13. & sup. Iohn Hom. 39. Tertul. c. prax. Hilar d. Trinit. l. 5. Ambros. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Psal. 118. Serm. 8. Origen. Mat. Hom. 25.

Fourthly, that which the Aduersarie affirmeth touching the Fathers, to wit, that they held the Scriptures to be cleare in all substantiall points, onely to men beforehand instructed, by the light of Tradition, is vntrue; neither doe the Fathers speake of Tradition according to the Romish acceptation.

First, sometimes the Fathers exhort heathen men, which were not instructed by Tradition, to reade the Scriptures. Theo∣philus [ C] Antiochenus saith to Autolicus, c 1.17 being as then a Pagan, Ve∣rum tu ipse si placet consule liter as sacras: But doe thou thy selfe if it seeme good vnto thee, consult with the holy Scriptures. Also they prouoke Heretikes, which denied the Tradition of the Church, to examine truth by Scriptures: August. d. vnit. Ec∣cles. c. 2.3.16. & contra Maxim. Arrian. l. 3. c. 14. Socrates Hist. lib. 1. cap. 6.

Secondly, by Tradition they vnderstand not the fabulous dreames and inuentions of Papals, d 1.18 who like the Pharisees cor∣rupt the right sence of Scripture, by their vnwritten Traditi∣ons, [ D] and affirme those things to bee Apostolicall, which agree with the confessed Doctrine of the Apostles, like darkenesse with light: But the Fathers by Tradition, vnderstand such ex∣position of Scripture, as was vniformely receiued, and com∣mended for Apostolicall, by the Primatiue Church, and which besides antiquitie, or the report of men, appeared to bee Apo∣stolicall, by an exact harmonie and consent with the Text of the holy Scripture, to which it was applied. S^t. August. e 1.19 d.

Bapt. c. Donatist. l.5, c.26. S^t. Cyprian. Epist. 74. Tertul. d. prae∣script. c.21. Ruffin. Hist. Ecclesiast. l.2. c.9. [ A]

Notes

• a 1.1

  Iren. lib. 2. c. 46. Vniuersae Scriptu∣rae Propheticae & Euangelicae, in a∣perto & sine ambi∣guitate, & similitèr ab omnibus audiri possunt.
• b 1.2

  Hieron. super Esa. cap. 19. Mos est Scripturarū obscu∣ris manifesta sub∣nectere.
• c 1.3

  Cyril. c. Iulian. lib. 7. p. 60. Vt omnibus essent nota paruis & magnis, vtilitèr familiari sermone commen∣data [ E] sunt vt nullius captum transcendant.
• d 1.4

  Aug. ad Volus. Ep. 3. & d. verb. Ap. Serm. 13. & d. vtil. Cred. c. 6. & sup. Psal. 88. Eder. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Bibl. lib. 1. p. 52. Media inter 〈◊〉〈◊〉 duo veluti extrema sententia D. est August. Epist. ad Volus. Vbi literas sacras non quidem vsquè adeò difficiles esse, quin ex ijs studio & diligentia tantum quisquè possit assequi quantum ci ad salutem, vtile sit atquè necessarium.
• e 1.5

  Greg. Praefat. Iob. ad Leandr. ca. 4. Habet in publico vndè paruulos nutriat, &c.
• a 1.6

  Chrys. d. verb. Eia. Hom. 2. Scrip∣turae non sunt me∣ralla quae indigent operarijs, sed the∣saurū praebent pa∣ratum 〈◊〉〈◊〉 qui quae∣runt opes in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 reconditas. Satis est enim introspex∣isse vt omni expleti fructu 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Satis est 〈◊〉〈◊〉 a∣peruisse vt illicò videas gemmarum splendorem. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. d. Sum. Bon. li. 1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 18. Simplices inue∣niunt modicos in∣tellectus ad quos ipsi humiles refu∣giunt. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Ex∣plic. Euang. Lectio∣nis sacrae 〈◊〉〈◊〉 imbecillis bacculū meruosis arma mi∣nistrat, &c. Acost. d. Christ. Reuel. lib. 2. cap. 2. Ita prouidit dulcis pater vt mul∣ta sint in sacris li∣teris aperta, histo∣rica, 〈◊〉〈◊〉, &c. At∣què hoc est in diui∣na Scriptura om∣ninò mirabile, ne∣minē esse tàm ru∣dem & imperitum quin si humilitèr legat multa illic v∣tilia veraquè intel∣ligat.
• b 1.7

  Cassandr. Def. [ D] lib. d. Offic. Bon. viri, pa. 820. Intelligentia Scripturae quae ex Traditione percipitur, non est ab ipsa. Scriptu∣ra seperanda, cum in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 continentur vel tanquam definitio in definito vel tanquam 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Cum 〈◊〉〈◊〉 huic seu Traditioni Cathol. seu 〈◊〉〈◊〉, non scripta authoritas in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 dijudicatione 〈◊〉〈◊〉, nihil ipsi Scripturae subtrahitur, cum nihil aliud sit quam mens & intelligentia Scripturae antiquitus nobis tradi∣ta quae vt scripta non sit in eis tamen quae sctipta sunt continetur.
• c 1.8

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Com. sup. Genes. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. C. Luther, at. 18. Abul. Defens. part. 2. ca. 18. pa. 39. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 22. q. 1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉, pag. 38. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 4. d. 5. q. 1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 1.
• d 1.9

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. Lir. c. Haer. cap. 39. Quae tamen antiquorum patrum sententia non in omnibus diuinae 〈◊〉〈◊〉, sed solùm certè praecipuè, in fidei regula magno nobis studio & 〈◊〉〈◊〉 est & 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ca. 41. Vt ad vnam Ecclesiastici sensus regulam Scripturae caelestis intelligentia 〈◊〉〈◊〉, in 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 praecipuè quae∣stionibus quibus totius Catholici Dogmatis 〈◊〉〈◊〉 nitantur.
• e 1.10

  Ioh. Picus. Mirand. Apol. q. 1. Ego hoe dico & firmitèr assero, non valere istam consequentiam, 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 est contrà Aug. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Greg. 〈◊〉〈◊〉, Ergo est haeretica. Quamuis 〈◊〉〈◊〉 sanctorum Doctorum Scriptura extrà Canonem Bibliae 〈◊〉〈◊〉, fit habenda & legenda & non tamèn sunt 〈◊〉〈◊〉 dicta, ità firmae authoritatis & immobilitatis, vt eis contradicere non liceat.
• f 1.11

  Greg. Val. tom. 4. pag. 1073.
• g 1.12

  Orig. sup. Math. tract. 1. In vnoquoquè perfecto habente congregationem eorum [ E] qui complent 〈◊〉〈◊〉, verborum, factorum, & sensuum, est quae à Deo aedificatur Ecclesia. Quod si super vnum illum Petrum tantum existimas aedificatam totam Ecclefiam, quid dicturus es de Iohanne filio 〈◊〉〈◊〉, & Apostolorum vnoquoquè. Vide Genebrard. Collectam in Orig.
• h 1.13

  Tertul. d. pudicit. cap. 21. Si quia dixerit Petro dominus, super hanc petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam, & 〈◊〉〈◊〉 praesumis, adte deriuasse 〈◊〉〈◊〉 & aligandi potestatem, id est ad 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Ecclesiam 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉, qualis es 〈◊〉〈◊〉 atquè commutans mani∣festam domini 〈◊〉〈◊〉, &c. Read 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉. n. 186. Censuring and condemning this Exposition.
• a 1.14

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉 in Gen. l. 3. c. 2. q. 5. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. in 1. p. Tho. disput. 8. p-49. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. an. 34. n. 213. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉. l. 11. c. 6. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. c. Caje∣tan. Gillius com. Theol. d. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. & d. Deo. l. 1. tr. 7. c. 11. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. loc. l. 5. c. 3. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Quest. in 1. sent. q. 5.
• a 1.15

  Aug. Ipsa ver∣ba Euangelica se∣cum portant expo∣sitiones suas. Idem. d. doct. Christ. l. 2. c. 6. Nihil ferè de illis obscuritatibus eruitur, quod non 〈◊〉〈◊〉 dictum alibi reperitur.
• b 1.16

  Chrys. Sacra Scriptura seipsam 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Basil. l. 2. d. Bapt. Eorum quae ab ipso dicta sunt ex his quae in alio loco dicta sunt ve∣ritatem ac salutare discamus. Greg. sup. Ezech. Hom. 7. Di∣uina eloquia, cum legente 〈◊〉〈◊〉 nam 〈◊〉〈◊〉 illa quis{que} 〈◊〉〈◊〉 intel∣ligit, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in eis alti' 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Acost. d. Christ. Reuel. l. 3. c. 21. Nihil mihi vi∣detur sic 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉, vt 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉; diligens, attenta, frequens 〈◊〉〈◊〉 tum medita∣tio & collatio Scrip∣turarū, omniū 〈◊〉〈◊〉 regula, ad intelligendū semper est visa, nam ex alijs Scripturis aliae optimè intelliguntur: tum phrasis ipsa, tum 〈◊〉〈◊〉 familiaris 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vt assuetis jam 〈◊〉〈◊〉 intelligcntia pateat. Ita{que} obscurā aperta, dubiā certa interpretātur. [ E]
• c 1.17

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Tom. 1. p. 898. l. 1. ad 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• d 1.18

  Gerson. d. fig. Ruin. Eccl. sig. 8. Fabulae sunt & non sanae Doctrinae, &c. Idem. d. spir. vit. anim. l. 2. Has vero Traditiones hominum quis cunctas dinumeret in Canonibus summorū pontificum in constitutionibus Synodalibus prouinciarum aut Diocesium, in Religionum regulis. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Bacon. l. 3. sent. 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉.
• e 1.19

  Aug. Quod autem nos admonet vt ad fontem recurramus, id est ad Apostolicā Traditionē & in∣de 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in nostra tempora dirigam{us}, optimū est & sine dubitatione faciendū. Traditū est ergo nobis sicut ipse comemorat Apostol{us}, quod sit vnus Christus & vn{us} Deus & vna spes, & vna fides, & vna Ecclesia & Baptisma vnū.