A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

ANSWER. [ D]

S^t. Augustines words, C. Epist. Manichei. c. 4. a 1.1 doe not proue, that after he was fully conuerted, he resolued his faith finally and principally into the authority of the Church, succeeding the Apostles.

First, S^t. Augustine resolued his faith finally and principally, into that which he knew to be infallible and totally diuine. But he was not so persuaded of the Church, succeeding the Apostles, because he thought it possible for the principall members of that Church to 〈◊〉〈◊〉, and be deceiued b 1.2, and he prefers the authority of the Scriptures, before the iudgement of Councels and Fa∣thers [ E] c 1.3, (in which some of our aduersaries place the 〈◊〉〈◊〉

of Ecclesiasticall infallibility.) Moreouer it appeareth by Saint [ A] Augustine in the second chapter of this Booke, that he did not make the authority of the Church, the highest ground of resolu∣tion of his faith: for he saith that manifest verity is to be preferred before all other tbings, whereby he was held in the Catholike Church a 1.4: but that whose authority must be preferred before all other things, is the highest ground of faiths resolution.

Secondly, because S^t. Augustines meaning in this place is ob∣scure [ B] and dubious, our aduersaries cannot conclude certainely from hence. 1. Some Schoolemen hold that he speaketh of ac∣quisite or Historicall Faith, which is an introductiō to b 1.5 infused faith, and then it is inconsequent to argue, that because Saint Augustine at his first conuersion, and being a Nouice in Faith, did ground his Historicall faith vpon the authority of the Church, therefore the authority of the Church is vniuersally, and after men are conuerted, the highest ground of resolution. Most men are at first induced by externall motiues, to giue credit to the Scriptures, as [ C] the people of Samaria c 1.6 were by the testimony of the woman, to beleeue that Christ was a Prophet, Ioh. 4.42. Altisiodor. summa in prolog. & li. 3. tr. 3.9.4. But as these people afterwards beleeued, because of Christs owne words, so they which by the Churches authority are first persuaded to heare and reade the doctrine of the Scriptures, afterwards by the light of grace doe perceiue the diuine Maiestie, wisedome, efficacie, and verity of the said do∣ctrine, and resolue their faith into the diuine authority of the ho∣ly Ghost, manifesting himselfe in the Scripture, or doctrine of the Scripture. [ D]

Secondly, other learned Papists hold that S^t. Augustine, in the place obiected, by the authority of the Church, vnderstood the Church wherein the Apostles themselues gouerned, and of [ E] which they were parts; d 1.7 and then no meruaile if he resolued his

faith into the authority of the Church, because in this notion the [ A] Church comprehends the Colledge of the Apostles, whose te∣stimony concerning the Scripture was altogether Diuine. And although S^t. Augustine conioyneth the authority of the latter Church with the former, wherein were the Apostles, yet he did not equally, and with the same manner of beleeuing ground his faith vpon both: for when a Preacher deliuereth Apostolicall doctrine, we beleeue both the Preacher and the Doctrine, and we could not haue knowne the doctrine, but by the Preacher; yet we resolue not our faith, finally and principally into the authority of the Preacher, a 1.8 but into the diuine verity it selfe preached by him. [ B] Euery thing by which we are mooued to beleeue, and without whose authority we should not haue beleeued, is not the princi∣pall obiect whereunto diuine faith is finally resolued, as appea∣reth by miracles, preaching, instruction of Parents, &c.

Notes

• a 1.1

  Si inuenires a∣liquem qui Euan∣gelio nondum cre∣dit quid 〈◊〉〈◊〉 di∣centi tibi non cre∣do: ego vero non crederem nisi me 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 commoueret 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• b 1.2

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. c. Crescon. l. 2. c. 21. Ecclesia∣stici Iudices sicut homines 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
• c 1.3

  〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 &c. Et per concilia licere 〈1 line〉〈1 line〉 emendari, &c.
• a 1.4

  Aug. c. Ep. Ma∣nich. c. 4. Multa sunt alia, quae in eius graemio me justissime teneant. Tenet consensio populorum, at{que} gentium 〈◊〉〈◊〉 authoritas, miraculis inchoata, charitate aucta vetustate firmata, &c. apud vos vero nihil est horum, &c. sola personat veritatis pollicitatio. Quae quidem si tàm manifesta monstra∣tur vt in dubium venire non possit preponenda est 〈◊〉〈◊〉 illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneor.
• b 1.5

  Scot. 3. d. 23. q. 1. Certum est quod in nobis est fides 〈◊〉〈◊〉 cre∣debilium acquifita: quod patet per Aug. c. fundament. Manich, qui dicit, quod non crederet Euang. nisi crede∣ret Ecclesiae Ca∣tholicae approban∣ti & authorizanti libros illos, &c. Gabr. 3. d. 23. q. 2. ar. 2. c. 1.
• c 1.6

  Canus loc. l. 2. c. 8. Negotium Au∣gustino erat cum Manichaeis, qui abs{que} controuersia, suo 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Euan∣gelio credi vole∣bant & Manich. fi∣dem adstruere. Ro∣gat 〈◊〉〈◊〉 August. ecquid 〈◊〉〈◊〉 sint si in hominem incidant qui non Euangelio quidem credat, quoue genere persuasionis sint eum in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 sententiam adducturi, certe se affirmat non aliter potuisse adduci vt 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉, quam Ecclesiae authoritate victum. Non itaque docet fundatam efse Euangelij fidem in Ecclesiae authoritate, verum simpliciter 〈◊〉〈◊〉 efse certam viam qua Infideles siue Nouitij, in fide ad Sacros Libros 〈◊〉〈◊〉, nisi Catholicae Ecclesiae vnum eundem{que} consensum. pa. 35. Al. Hal. 3. q. 78. memb. 2. Ratio & fides quae est ex ratione, se 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ad fidem gratuitam, ficut preambula dispositio ad formam. Disponit enim animam ad receptionem luminis, quo assentit primae veritati propter se, sed per modum naturae non gratiae, & dicitur ipsum in 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 seta 〈◊〉〈◊〉 & tunc ratio 〈◊〉〈◊〉 humana, quando ei non innititur fides introducta.
• d 1.7

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. dial. p. 1. l. 1. c. 4. Intelligi∣tur solum. d. Eccle∣sia quae 〈◊〉〈◊〉 tem∣pore 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Gabr. lect. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. can. missae D. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. in sent. l. 1. q. 1. ar. 3. fol. 50. & quest. vesper vtrum Petri Ecclesia fol. 278. & 294. Can. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Colon. p. 69. Dried. d. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Eccl. l. 4. c. 4. fol. 239. Th. Wald. to 1. l. 2. c. 21. Durand. 3. d. 24.4.1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. d. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. vit. lect. 2. Coral. 7. Et hic ap∣peritur 〈◊〉〈◊〉 intelligendi 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Aug. Euangelio non 〈◊〉〈◊〉 nisi me authoritas Ecclesiae compulisset. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 enim 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 pro congregatione fidelium, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 qui Christum audierunt, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 & ejus testes fuerunt.
• a 1.8

  Turrian. 22. disp. 2. dub. 4. Non solū inter Gentiles, sed etiam inter Christianos, ante∣quā quis adhibeat fidem humanā, te∣stimonio Ecclesiae, fidem adhibit Con∣cionatori, vel pa∣rocho, &c.