A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*
White, Francis, 1564?-1638., Laud, William, 1573-1645., Baylie, Richard, b. 1585 or 6, attributed name., Cockson, Thomas, engraver., Fisher, John, 1569-1641.

ANSWER.

Passing by your boasting of Manifestly Holy, in all kind of high and extraordinarie Holinesse, notorious, striking admiration, &c. And putting you in mind of Solomons Prouerbe: There is a man that boasteth himselfe to be rich, and yet hath nothing: Prou. 13. 7.

I answere the matter, first, You must be aduertised that Gre∣gory, [ B] Moral. l. 33. c. 26. saith, Praedicatores Antichristi sanctitatis sibi speciem arrogant, sed tamen opera iniquitatis exercent: Anti∣christs Preachers arrogate vnto themselues a shew of holinesse, and practise the workes of iniquitie. This will be verified in such as you are, if your forme of externall holinesse bee not conioyned with holy and Orthodoxall Doctrine. You must therefore first of all prooue your doctrine to be Orthodoxall, in the Articles in question betweene the reformed Churches and you, before your miracles and specious holinesse can stand [ C] you in any stead: And there is no kind of externall holinesse, which heretickes haue not pretended, and practised in shew be∣fore men.

Secondly, your owne friends and followers testifie, That your Church hath beene for many ages, notoriously defiled with the enormitie of vices: Some of them say a in generall tearmes, that from the crowne of the head to the sole of the foot, the vlcerous matter of enormous sinne, hath defiled and deformed the whole body and state of Christianitie, liuing vnder your profession. Others affirme, that all Ecclesiasticall b and Christian discipline, was in a man∣ner [ D] extinguished in euery place. Others say, that oppression, c rapine, adulterie, incest, and all pestilent vice, did confound all sacred and pro∣phane things, and that the same beat S. Peters ship so impetuously, that it began to hull or wallow vpon the to-side. Others, d that vices were so exalted and multiplied, that they hardly left any space to Gods mercie. Others say, e there is no place wherein is found so little pietie and Religion, as in those people which dwell neerest to Rome. Others say, f that you haue not onely imitated and matched, but surpassed all the auarice, ambition, lubricitie, and tyrannie, that was euer heard of amongst the heathen. Sundrie of your owne part g haue writ∣ten [ E] volumes, containing Narrations of the outragious wicked∣nesse Page  112 which raigned among 〈◊〉 They haue stiled your grand [ A] fathers, Monsters of mankind h, The dregs of vice, Incarnate deuils, &c i. One saith, k Nothing was more luxurious, coue∣tous and proud, than Priests; they spent the Churches patrimonie, in gluttonie, ryot, vpon dogs, and queanes, and all their preaching was to 〈1 line〉. Matthew Paris saith, l The 〈◊〉 of Rome seeke not to make people deuout; but to fill their coffers with treasure; they studie not to win soules, but to 〈◊〉 vpon o∣ther mens reuenues; they oppresse the godly, and impudently vsurpe other mens right; they haue no care of honestie or right. King Iohn of England, m from whom Pope Innocent extorted fortie thou∣sand [ B] markes at once, and twelue thousand annually, to absolue his kingdome, being interdicted, said, That he had learned by wo∣full experience, that the Pope was ambitious, beyond all men liuing, an insatiable, gulfe, and thirster after monie, and readie for hope of gaine, like waxe, to be 〈◊〉 to any kind or degree of 〈◊〉. Aluares hath these words, n The mysticall Sion, the Church, which in her primitiue state was adorned of her spouse, with such, and so many royall graces, is now clouded and eclipsed, with the blacke mist of ig∣norance, iniquitie, and errour, and we behold her cast downe from hea∣uen, and as a desart vnhabited of vertue, and if any godly people re∣maine, [ C] they are esteemed as Arabians and Saracens. And in the same place o The Prelates of the Church are an armie of deuils: Po∣tius depraedandis & spoliandis & scandalizandis hominibus quam lu∣cris animarum operam dantes: They rather labour to rob, spoile, and scandalise men, than to win soules.

Honorius Angustodonensis p, who liued in the yeere 1120. [ D] hath these words: Turne thee to the citisens of Babylon, and obserue what manner of people they be, and by what streetes they walke; come hi∣ther Page  113 to the top of the mountaine, that thou mayest behold all the habi∣tations [ A] of the damned citie. Looke vpon her Princes and Iudges (Popes, Cardinals, Prelates) the verie seate of the beast is placed in them. All dayes they are intent to euill, 〈◊〉 occupied (without satietie) in the works of iniquitie: they not onely themselues act, but instruct others to fla∣gitious wickednesse; they make port-sale of things sacred, they pur∣chase that which is wicked, and labour with all their might, that they may not descend alone to hell. Turne thy selfe to the Clergie, and thou shalt see in them the tent of the beast: they neglect Gods seruice, they are slaues to worldly lucre, they defile their Priesthood through vn∣cleannesse, [ B] they seduce the people by hypocrisie, they deny God by euill workes, they abandon all the Scriptures appointed for mans saluation, they lay snares all manner of wayes to ruine the people, and are blind guides, going before the blinde to perdition. Contemplate also the so∣cieties of Monkes, and thou shalt discerne in them the tabernacles of the Beast: by faigned profession, they mocke God, and prouoke his wrath, they betrample their rule with vile manners, they deceiue the world by their habit, &c. Many of them are deuoted to gluttonie, and sensuall appetite: they putrifie in the filth of vncleannesse. Be∣hold the habitation of Nunnes, and thou shalt obserue in them, a Bride∣chamber [ C] prepared for the Beast: These from their tender yeeres learne leaudnesse, they associate many to them, to accumulate their damnation; They make haste to bee vailed, that they may more freely let loose the reines of luxurie; they are prostituted worse than any Harlots, like an insatiable gulfe, they are neuer satisfied with the dung of vnclean∣nesse: These insnare the soules of yong men, and shee among them which transcendeth her fellowes in leaudnesse, beares away the bell.

* Thirdly, the Roman Church hath many passages in the ve∣rie course of Doctrine, to destroy or corrupt holinesse: for to omit their grosse superstitions, Pharisaicall Traditions, and [ D] other impieties against God: First, They depriue people of the reading and hearing of the holy Scripture, which is a prin∣cipall meanes to destroy Vice, and kindle Vertue a, Deut. 31. 21. Secondly, Their doctrine of Pardons ministred daily oc∣casion of intollerable wickednesse. For although their Schole∣men plastered the same with subtle distinctions, yet the people entertained them according to the outward letter, and practi∣sed accordingly. Thirdly, By some part of their doctrine they Page  114 〈◊〉 people to commit sinne. Equiuocation is a doctrine of [ A] Periurie. To affirme that it is lawfull to depose Princes, and take away their 〈◊〉 in case of Heresie, is a plaine doctrine of 〈◊〉 worse than murder; and if the Pope may command murder, why may he not also command adulterie, theft, and blasphemie. The doctrine of the Popes authoritie, to dispence with oathes a, is perilous and pernitio us to the safetie of man∣kind, making way to all kind of fraud and iniustice.

If the Roman Church be so apparantly and infinitly holy, why doth it openly maintaine Stewes, and receiue yearely tri∣bute b, and part stake with Harlots? and wherefore are Sanctu∣aries the harbours and dennes of Assisines, and other enormous delinquents, tollerated and supported by this Church? It is a monstrous doctrine which was hatched by Pope Vrban c, and approoued by Baronius d, That they are not to be iudged murthe∣rers which slay excommunicate persons. The exemption of 〈◊〉 from being tried in Causes Criminall, before Christi∣an [ C] Magistrates, is a doctrine which maketh way to most outra∣gious offences, Gulielmus Nubrigensis, lib. 2. cap. 16. e The Iudges complained that there were many robberies, and rapes, and murthers, to the number of an hundred then presently committed within the realme by Ecclesiasticall persons (vpon presumption of exempti∣on from the censure of the lawes.)

We cannot be persuaded that the Roman Church is holy in such high and extrordinarie manner as our Aduersarie boa∣steth, because the greatest Clerkes of that societie, vndertake the defence of such impieties as are detestable in Nature, and condemned by the light of common Reason. Garnets Powder∣plot hath many Patrons. Cardinall Baronius commendeth to * the skies, yong Henrie the Emperors sonne for rebelling against his naturall father, for deposing, imprisoning, and bringing him with sorrow to the graue: what Turke or Sauage would be the encomiast of such vnnaturall and enormous villanie? [ E]