A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

ANSWER.

It is an errour to ascribe any effect to the operations of men, which is proper to the death of Christ: But to make Satisfacti∣on to diuine Iustice for any punishment of sinne, eternall or tem∣porall, [ B] is an effect proper to the death of Christ. For the holy Scripture teacheth expresly, that all spirituall, redemption is immediately wrought by the bloud of Christ, Heb. 1. 3. When he had by himselfe, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, purged our sinnes, Col. 2. 15. tri∣umphing ouer them in himselfe, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. And whereas our Ad∣uersaries restraine these and the like places to the staine and eternall guilt of sinne, the Apostle, Col. 2. 14. affirmeth, That Christ blotted out (〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉) the hand writing of decrees (con∣tayned in the law a) that was against vs, and tooke it out of the way, nailing it to his Crosse (and that by himselfe, Heb. 1.3. Col. 2.15.) but the temporarie punishment of sinne, is contayned [ C] within the latitude of the Law, Leuit. 26.14. Deut. 28.15, &c. Therefore Christ Iesus our Sauiour, immediately and by him∣selfe, and not mediately by the passions of Saints, wiped out, and remooued out of the way the malediction of temporarie punishment, as well as the guilt of eternall.

When Daniel himselfe, one of the most holy Prophets, pray∣ed [ D] for the remission of his owne sinnes, and of the transgressi∣ons of his people, and made supplication to God for remission of temporall paines and plagues, he offereth not his owne me∣rits, or Satisfaction, but saith, Dan. 9.7. Oh Lord, righteousnesse belongeth vnto thee, but vnto vs confusion of face. v. 9. To the Lord our God belongeth mercy and forgiuenesse, though we haue rebelled against thee: and v. 18. O my God, encline thine eare and heare, open thine eyes and behold our desolations, &c. for we doe not present our [ E] supplications before thee for our owne righteousnesse, but for thy great mercies. Three things are remarkeable in this Scripture.

First, Daniell was a sanctified person, and a Prophet, one of those which, according to our Aduersaries Tenet, communi∣cates Satisfactions to fill vp the Churches Treasurie.

Secondly, he prayeth to God, not onely for the remission [ A] of the eternall guilt of sinne, but also for the pardon and release of temporarie punishment.

Thirdly, he presenteth not his owne Satisfactions, neither yet the superabundant Passions of any other of the Patriarchs or Prophets, but he resteth wholy vpon the free mercy of God, and the future satisfaction of the Messiah to come. Therefore I conclude, that they which conioyne the passions of Saints with the sufferings of Christ to make condigne Satisfaction for the temporarie punishment of sinne, are iniurious to the All-suffi∣cient [ B] Passion of Christ, and attribute that vertue to the actions of men, which is proper to the Sacrifice of the Sonne of God.

Now if the Aduersarie in his answer relye vpon the distin∣ction of eternall and temporall paine, affirming that Christ alone, and by himselfe hath fully satisfied the iustice of God for the first, but not for the latter a: he must remember, That it is not sufficient in a matter of such consequence, to affirme b, but he must confirme, by diuine Testimonie, the veritie of his answer. And if the former Principles and the arguments dedu∣ced from them, when they are propounded in a due forme, con∣clude [ C] not his assertion, then his distinction is a begging of the question, and not a solution of the Obiection.

Lastly, if the Iesuit will be so rigide, as to admit no argu∣ment on our part which may receiue any colourable answer, I must require him (likewise) to confirme his owne positions, at leastwise with probable reasons, and not pester his papers with Illations ridiculous to children. But among other things, I in∣treate [ D] him to deliuer so much as one probable Argument in due forme (I will not require a demonstration) proouing, that the Roman Bishop, or any Prelate vnder him, haue power ouer soules in Purgatorie c: for if his Monarchy be onely ouer the Church Militant d, and the Church Militant is onely vpon earth, by what authoriy doth the Roman Bishop intermeddle with soules in Purgatorie? Also how doth his holynesse, or his Emissaries, the Iesuits and Fryars, know which soules are in Pur∣gatorie

gatorie, and how long they continue in the same, and the time, [ A] and season, when it is expedient to apply suffrages and indul∣gences to them.

Dominicus Soto, and Thomas Zerula say, That soules continue not in Purgatorie, ten or twentie yeeres, and yet the Pope gran∣teth Pardons for many thousands of yeeres a. Also, by what experience or testimonie doe Papists vnderstand the state of soules in Purgatorie, the qualitie of their paine b, their ingresse and egresse from that place of torment, or the meanes to apply remedie to them? Now let them answere what they please touching the difference of the yeeres of Penance in this life, [ B] with the measure of Purgatorie paines c, or concerning any of the former assertions, and withall, let them be intreated to confirme their Tenet with any probable Argument, and wee shall thinke they are lesse partiall, when they admit no proofe as sufficient on our part, which can be euaded by any straine of wit.

Notes

• a

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. Sup. Coloss. 2. De legc siquidem Moy si loquitur, quae lex mandatorum, de∣cretorum, & facto∣rum appellatur. Adam. Sasbot. ibid. Legemautē Moysi siue Decalogum, Chirographū ap∣pellauit, quod ac∣cusaret & contestaretur aduersus nos. Eph. 2.15. Lex enim iudicabat nosreos, dum non praestabamus quod precipiebatur, vnde etiam dicit Chirographum ipsum fuisse contrarium nobis. Hoc Chirographum deleuit Christus, quia ipsius beneficio iam amplius non tenemur lege. AEstius. ibid. vult enim docere Apostolus, legem veterem per Christum abolitam esse, totamque eius obligationem cessare, introducta lege Christi.
• a

  Greg. Val. O∣pusc. li. d. Satisfac. ca. 3. Cogitandum est Christum non solum suam, sed etiam nostram si∣mul satisfactionē aeterno patri ac∣ceptandam obtu∣lisse, vt ex vi etiam satisfactionis no∣ftrae, debitum il∣lud, quod ad poenam quidētemporalem attinet solueretur.
• b

  Nugnus. Addit. in 3. p. Th. q. 20. ar. 3. dif. 1. Quod autem fuerit diuina institutio, licet non possit, manifeste probari, quia non constat ex sacris literis, neque ex concilijs, tamen loca supra adducta, precipuè Pij quinti, sufficienter illud probant.
• c

  Bzouius. An∣nal. Tom. 14. An∣no. 1300. n. 4. In∣super publicè cla∣mabant, quia di∣ctorum Apostolo∣rum (Petri & Pau∣li) meritis, Omnes animae in Purgatorio, non solum à poenis suissent liberatae, sed etiam aeternam quoque [ E] gloriam consecutae.
• d

  Onus. Eccles. ca. 15. Papa non mortuorum sed viuentium terrestris est Deus. Ga∣briel. in Can. Miss. lect. 57. Dicit Sanctus Bonauentura, si quis contendat vicarium Iesu Christi, habere iudiciariam potestatem super eos qui sunt in Purgatorio, non est ei multum resistendum, dummodo hoc di∣ctet ratio vel authoritas manifesta. Rubeo. 4 d. 19. q. 2. Indulgentiae non proficiunt nec dari possunt existenti∣bus in Purgatorio, &c. quia existentes in Purgatorio, non sunt de foro Papae. Gerson. to. 4. ser. 2. d. Defunct. q. 9.
• d Viguer. instit. cap. 16. §. 6. vers. 22. Videtur dicendum quod valet ad totannos, ad quot secundum diuinam ordinationem, pro peccatis preteritis, haberet sustinere in Purgatorio, si ante Indulgentiae consecutionem, in gratia decessisset. Petud. 4. d. 20. q. 4. n. 18. Negas. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. to. 4. disp. 50. sect. 5. n. 11. 12. Saepè conceduntur mille vel decem mille anni Indulgentiae cum tamen poenae Purgatorij ordinariè non sint tanto tempore duraturae. Est igitur communis sententia, diem vel annum in huiusmodi Indulgentijs proxime significare, durationem poenitentialis satisfactionis in hac vita exhibitae pro peccatis, per Indulgentiam autem remitti non solum satisfactionem poenitentialem, sed tantam poenam Purgatorij, quanta per poenitentiam vnius diei vel anni remitteretur. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 4. d. 21. q. 2. ar. 1. Cordube d. Indulg. q. 11. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. d. Sacram. Disp. 6. q. 1. punct. 2. pa. 661. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. sup. Decret. dist. 1. d. poenit. in Leuitico. q. 24. n. 25. 26. 27. &c.
• a

  Zerula. d. In∣dulg. l. 1. c. 21. q. 8. Octauo quaeritur quanto tempore a∣nima potest stare in Purgatorio? Resp. breuiter ex Sot. loc. cit. dist. 21. q. 2. ar. 1. col. 4. & dist. 19. q. 2. ar. 2. In fine: vbi ait ani∣mam non detineri in Purgatorio spa∣tio viginti imo nec decem annorum. Aureol. 4. d. 20. ar. 1
• b

  Reade before in the Margen, pag. 564. Rubeo 4. d. 19. q. 1. Aliquando pro vno denario vel obolo, quinquaginta vel cen∣tum anni de Indulgentia conceduntur.
• c

  Jac. d. Graph. Append. d. Indulg. cap. 1. n. 24. Poeua Pur∣gatorij etsi aeterna non sit, miro tamen modo est grauis, excedit enim omnem poenam quam vnusquisque vnquam passus est in hac vita: vnde nunquam in carne inuenta est tanta poena licet mirabilia pasci sint Mar∣tyres [ C] tormenta, &c.