A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*
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Title
A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*
Author
White, Francis, 1564?-1638.
Publication
London :: Printed by Adam Islip,
1624.
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Subject terms
Fisher, John, 1569-1641 -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Church of England -- Apologetic works -- Early works to 1800.
Catholic Church -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A15082.0001.001
Cite this Item
"A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A15082.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 4, 2024.
Pages
ANSWER.
When the substance of a point is reuealed, and the distinct and particular manner concealed, it is sufficient to beleeue the former, without searching into the latter. And not only some Protestants, but the Fathers also, and some learned Pontifici∣ans, [ D] deliuer thus much concerning the sacred Eucharist.
Bandinus b 1.1, and the master of the Sentencesc 1.2, say, Touching the manner of conuersion (in the Sacrament) some affirme one way, and some another, &c. We say with S. Augustine, This mysterie is safely beleeued, but not with safetie searched into. Cyrill d 1.3of Alex∣andria, We ought firmely to beleeue the holy mysterie, but let vs neuer in matters thus sublime, so much as imagine, to vtter the manner how. And againe, The manner how this is done, can neither be conceiued
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by the mind, nor expressed by the tongue. Theophilact.a 1.4 When we [ A] heare these words of Christ, vnlesse yee eat the flesh of the sonne of man, &c. Wee ought firmely to beleeue the same, and not enquire after what manner. And with these agreeth Caluin b 1.5 sup. Ephes. 5.32.
Notes
b 1.1
Bandinus, sent∣d. Sacr. pa. 367. Sed siuè sic, siuè alitèr sit, tenendum est quod Aug. ait. Si quaerismodum quo id fieri possit, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 dico: My∣sterium Fidei salu∣britèr credi potest, 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 potest.
Lombard. Sent. 4. Dist. 11. Si autem quaeritur qualis sit illa conuersio, an 〈◊〉〈◊〉, an sub∣stantialis, vel alterius generis? definite non sufficio. Tonstal. d. Euchar. lib. 1. pag. 46. De modo quo id fieret, satius [ E] erat curiosum quenquè relinquere 〈◊〉〈◊〉 coniecturae, sicut liberum fuit ante Concilium 〈◊〉〈◊〉.
Cyril. in Iohan. li. 4. ca. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Firmam fidem mysterijs adhibentes, nunquam in tàm sublimibus rebus, illud quomodo aut 〈◊〉〈◊〉, aut proferamus. Ibid. ca. 24. Quomodo id fiat, nec mente intelligere, nec lingua dicere possumus, sed silentio & firma fide id suscipimus. Bernard. Epist. 77. Sacramentum Dei altissimi suscipiendum est, non ratione discutiendum, venerandum & admirandum non dijudicandum, aut ad rationis vel sapientiae humanae calculum reuocandum, &c.
Theoph. in Ioh. 6. Quando cogita∣tiones incredulita∣tis ingrediuntur in animam, ingreditur simul quo modo, &c. Oportet igitur nos quum audiuerimus, nisi ederitis carnem filij, non habebitis vitam, in sumptionibus diui∣norum mysteriorum, indubitatam retinere fidem, & non quaerere quo pacto. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Papa. Myst. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. li. 4. c. 16. Si queratur vtrum Christus localitèr 〈◊〉〈◊〉 de Coelo, 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 in Coelum, quum 〈◊〉〈◊〉 aut subtrahit praesentiam corporalem, an aliter incipiat, vel desinat esse sub specie 〈◊〉〈◊〉. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. non 〈◊〉〈◊〉 nos in ta∣libus curiosos existere, ne plus quam possumus, praesumamus, & non comprehendamus. Salubre 〈◊◊〉〈◊◊〉 Apostolus, Noli plus sapere quam oportet sapere, sed sapere ad sobrietaté. Ego nescio quomodo Christus accedit, sed & quomodo recedit ignoro, nouit ille qui nihil ignorat.
Cal. Com. Eph. 5. v. 32. Cum nobis in sacra Caena carné & fanguiné Christi exhiberi negant, modum inquiunt definias aut non persuadebis. At qui ego 〈◊〉〈◊〉 alti∣tudine in stuporé abripeor: nequè verò me pudet, admiratione meá igncrantiá 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Paulo fateri. Quanto enim [ B] id satius, quam extenuare carnis meae sensu, quod paulus altum mysterium esse pronunciat? Idquè docetipsa ratio. Quicquid enim supernaturale est, id 〈◊〉〈◊〉 captum ingenij nostri superat. Proindè 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vt Christum sentiamus potius in nobis viuentem, quam vt communicationis ratio nobis pateat.