A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

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Title
A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*
Author
White, Francis, 1564?-1638.
Publication
London :: Printed by Adam Islip,
1624.
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Subject terms
Fisher, John, 1569-1641 -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Church of England -- Apologetic works -- Early works to 1800.
Catholic Church -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A15082.0001.001
Cite this Item
"A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A15082.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 4, 2024.

Pages

ANSVVER.

This Tract of S. Cyril (according to Vasques e 1.1 the Iesuit) is not found among his antient workes, but cyted out of him by Thomas Aquinas, and therefore the authoritie thereof, may bee suspected; notwithstanding I answer as followeth.

First, S. Cyrill, by the words, Conuerting them into the veritie of his flesh, vnderstandeth not Popish Transubst. but mysticall and Sacramentall Conuersion, to wit, conuersion of significati∣on,

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vse, and operation; for he speaketh of Bread and Wine, [ A] not according to a part of their nature, to witte, their mat∣ter and substance, but according to their whole nature, con∣taining substance, accidents, and quantitie: now if the things offered b 1.2 to God, in the holy Eucharist, are the whole creatures of Bread and Wine, and the same are conuerted into Christs flesh; then the accidents and quantitie are conuerted into Christs body, as well as the matter and forme, which Ro∣mists deny.

Secondly, from the word Conuersion, Romists cannot prooue Transubstantiation: for if the conuersion, be onely of vse, rela∣tion, [ B] and operation, as in the water of Baptisme, then it follow∣eth not, That because S. Cyrill taught conuersion, Ergo, hee taught Transubstantiation. And if it be a substantiall conuersion, then also there cannot be Popish Transubstantiation, for in this forme and substance perish, and the accidents remaine: in the other, the common matter remaineth, and the forme and acci∣dents perish c 1.3.

In all substantiall conuersions, naturall or miraculous, there is a new thing produced, out of that which is conuerted, as ap∣peareth in the conuersion of Water into Wine, and Lots wife [ C] into a Pillar of salt, &c. But in Popish Transubstantiation, the body of Christ is not produced anew d 1.4: for it is praeex∣istent, and receiueth no substantiall change, by the confession of 〈◊〉〈◊〉 themselues e 1.5: neither is it substantially vnited vnto the accidents of Bread and Wine, for it giueth no subsistance to them, and it sustaineth them not, but it is vnited accidentally f 1.6 onely, by being made present where the substance of the Ele∣ments formerly were. Now if water should be poured vpon the ground, or otherwise consumed, and wine be brought from 〈◊〉〈◊〉, as haile and snow g 1.7 are, and be placed where water for∣merly [ D] was, here is no substantiall conuersion: so likewise when the substance of Bread and Wine cease, and Christs body and bloud are brought 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the place where these were, no substan∣tiall thing is produced, but one substance succeedeth in the roome of another, by that which they stile vbiation h 1.8.

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It is in vaine therefore for Romists to obiect the Fathers [ A] words, speaking of conuersion of bread and wine into Christs bodie and blood, because in Popish Transubstantiation, there is not conuersion of bread into Christs bodie, but onely a locall succession of Christs bodie into the same vbitie, where the sub∣stance of bread formerly was a 1.9.

Thirdly, In all substantiall conuersions, either a new thing is [ B] produced, or the old preserued. In Transubstantiation, no new thing is produced, nor any old preserued: Ergo, Transub∣stantiation is no conuersion. If they answere, That some new thing is produced, to wit, an vnion of Christs bodie with the Sacramentall signes b 1.10. I answere, That when a garment and a bodie are vnited, here is no substantiall conuersion, or when a Diamond and gold Ring are vnited, or when the humanitie or Deitie are vnited in the person of Christ.

If they say, That the bodie of Christ 〈◊〉〈◊〉 is preser∣ued, as when nourishment c 1.11 is receiued into the bodie, it pre∣serueth the same; then I demand, Whether Christs bodie is preserued in regard of the being? and if they affirme, then it is also produced according to the being d 1.12, because the same thing which produced the bodie of Christ, doth at this present onely preserue it, and no new thing super-added; but it is not pro∣duced anew, Ergo, It is not preserued or continued in the [ D] being which it formerly had, by any new Action.

If they answere, It is preserued according to the Sacramen∣tall being: I reply, That this Sacramentall being, must be either the being of Christs bodie, according to matter and forme; but

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then Christs bodie receiueth no such being, for it was preexi∣stent. [ A] Or else it is the vnion and application of Christs bodie, to the Sacramentall signes; and then I reply, That this vnion is onely accidentall a 1.13, and in regard of presentialitie and vbitie, and consequently it is no conuersion of bread into Christs bo∣die, but a translation and adduction of Christs bodie from hea∣uen, vnto the place of the substance of bread: but translation and adduction of one substance, into the roome or seate of another, is not substantiall conuersion b 1.14, but alteration of place.

Notes

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