A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

ANSVVER.

In the Roman Church vntill Lutber began more freelie to manifest your abuses to the world, palpable ignorance was so predominant in many places, that most Priests a 1.1, and other re∣ligious persons were ignorant of the latine tongue, and vnder∣stood [ B] not the Psalmes, lessons, and prayers which themselues read in the Church. Matthew Paris b 1.2 speaking of England saith, Clarkes and men in Orders were so illiterate, that he was a mirhor among his fellowes which had learned Grammer. Catherinus saith c 1.3: Not only they which supply the place of the Idiot doe many times notvn∣derstand what is prayed, but also Priests and Deacons themselues are ignorant of what they pray or reade. Ioseph Angles saith: Many Clerkes and religious persons, and Nunnes, pray in Greeke and Latine, which neither doe, nor can vnderstand the meaning of the words.

Neither is it held necessarie in our Aduersaries Tenet, that either Priest or people should vnderstand the seruice of the Church. For Suares saith d 1.4, It is not necessarie at this day, for the Minister to vnderstand the language wherein the Masse is said, but it is sufficient that it be vttered in the faith of the Church. And Ledesma [ D] saith e 1.5, Prayers and prayses, performed by them which vnderstand them not, are pleasing to God, and Christ: for if (saith he) Prayers profite such as are absent, and heare them not, much more shall they profit them which are present, though they vnderstood them not. This reason concludeth as well, that it is not necessarie for the people to be present at common seruice, nor yet that it is requisite they should so much as desire the prayers of the Church; for Infidels and Infants are many times benefitted by the Churches pray∣ers, when they in their owne persons, by reason of tender [ E] yeares, or ignorance, can require or wish no such thing. Now if one should argue as Ledesma the Iesuit doth, Prayers profite such as vnderstand nothing of prayer, and which desire not the Church to pray for them: Therefore it is not necessarie that common people shall know any thing in generall or particu∣lar, touching the nature of prayer, or that they should desire to

reape benefit by common prayer, he concludeth as firmely [ A] from this antecedent, as the Iesuit doth from the former.

Notes

• a 1.1

  Explic. Cath. loc. Script. part. 3. Explic. 48. pa. 1155. Si peccatum est ab Ecclesia, potius pec∣catum est quia plc∣rique accersiti sunt qui neque intelli∣gunt 〈◊〉〈◊〉 quae orant & fantur, neque hi quid respondent vel ad quid respō∣dent. Biel. Can. Mis. lect. 62. Ios. Ang∣les in 4. Sent. Ap∣pend. ad poenit. d. Attent. q. 5. Diff. 2. Concl. 2 Multi elerici & Religiosi: & moniales Graece vel latine orantes, nec sensum verborum intelligunt, [ C] nec intelligere possunt.
• b 1.2

  Math. Paris. Cronic. in Will. Conquest. pa. 7. Clerici quoque & ordinati adeo literatura carebant, vt caeteris esset stupori, qui Grammaticam didicisset.
• c 1.3

  Catherin. Annot. Caietan. sup. 1. Cor. 14. Qui supplent locum Idiotae, plerumque non intelligunr quid oretur, verum etiam saepenumero nec 〈◊〉〈◊〉 praesbyteri, aut Diaconi, qui orant, aut legunt.
• d 1.4

  Suares. 3. disp. 83. Sect. 1. Etiam nunc non est ne∣cesse, vt minister linguam intelligat, in qua Missa dici, tur, &c.
• e 1.5

  Ledesm. d. Scrip. Qua vis ling. le∣gend. ca. 13.