A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

ANSWER.

First, our doctrine and zeale are grounded vpon diuine reue∣lation, for we are commanded to inuocate God in the name of Christ, Iohn 16.24. and our Sauiour himselfe inuiteth vs, to ap∣proach with confidence, to the throne of his grace, Ioh. 14.13. & cap. 15.16. & cap. 16.23.24.26. Eph. 3.12. Heb. 4.16. He is rich in mercie, to such as call vpon him, Eph. 2.4. and more [ D] compassionate, better able, and more willing to helpe vs than any Saint or Angell, and he is appointed by God to be our in∣tercessor, Rom. 8.34. Heb. 7.25. We read in the new Testament many examples of people which made supplication immedi∣ately vnto Christ, but not of one which made intercession to the Virgin Marie, or to the blessed Saints or Angels. And the Fathers teach a, that we shall assuredly be heard, although no other pray for vs, but our selues, if we be deuout, faithfull, fer∣uent, and perseurant, and conioine good Workes with our Prayers b. [ E]

Secondly, But the Iesuit addeth, That by refusing to make [ A] intercession to Saints, we neglect a necessarie meanes, which God hath appointed in his Church, for the applying of his graces and fauour; and that inuocation of Saints deceased, is such a meanes, he indeauoreth to prooue by vnwritten Tra∣dition.

I answer, Inuocation of Saints is not grounded vpon Apo∣stolicall Tradition. For the Iesuit cannot prooue (by the vnani∣mous consent of the Fathers, abutting vpon the Apostles age, or by any other sufficient testimonie) that the Apostles prea∣ched or practised this Doctrine. And if he were able to pro∣duce [ B] many Fathers, maintaining inuocation of Saints, yet he must remember, what one of the best learned of his owne part teacheth vs a: The consent of Fathers in any point (which they hold to be a veritie) prooueth not the same to be an Apostolicall Traditi∣on, vnlesse they consent in such sort, that they affirme the same to be a Tradition. But our Aduersaries are vnable to produce the anti∣ent Fathers, maintaining by vnanimous consent, this Doctrine, as matter of Catholicke Faith, or of necessarie practise: and they are farre more vnable to make ostension b, that Ignatius, Iustin Martyr, Ireneus, Tertullian, Clemens Alexandrinus, S. Cyprian, [ C] or any other of the first three hundred yeares, did euer affirme, That inuocation of Saints is an Apostolicall Tradition. Tra∣dition beginning in the holy Apostles, must descend by a perpetuall cur∣rent of all ages c. Inuocation of Saints began not in the holy Apostles, neither is the same deriued to our daies, by a perpe∣tuall current, and vnanimous consent, Ergo, The same is not grounded vpon Apostolicall Tradition.

Notes

• a

  Chrys. Hom. d. profect. Euang. Vis dicere, quod etiam per nos ipsos oran∣tes, apud Deū plus efficimus, quā dum alij pro nobis orant: 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Cananaea, & vt accesserunt Discipuli dicunt dimitte eam, quià clamat post nos: & ad illos quidem dixit, Non sum missus nisi ad oues domus Israel, quando ipsamet accessit, & perseuerauit cla∣mans, Domini etiàm catelli edunt de mensa Dominorum, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 beneficium dedit, & ait fiat sicut tibi vis. Vides quo∣modo repulit quando alij 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vbi veto 〈◊〉〈◊〉 pro dono clamauit, annuit. Id. sup. Math. Hom. 53.
• b

  Aug. in Psal. 43. Quam caeleritèr accipiuntur orationes benè operantium. Idem d. Temp. ser. 226.
• a

  Paulus Naza∣rius in 1. p. Tho. q. 113. ar. 2. Consen∣sus Patrum in ali∣quam veritaté, non conuincit eam esse Apostolicam Tra∣ditionē, nisi in eam ità consentiant, vt asserant eam esse Apostolicam Tra∣ditionem.
• b

  Peresius, d. Trad. p. 3. d. Cult. Sanct. Antè Cor∣nelium martirem, nulla extat mentio (quod ego viderim) inuocationis & in∣tercessionis Sācto∣rum. In causa fortè fuit modestia & humilitas Apostolica.
• c

  Aug. c. Don li. 5. ca. 26. Quod nos admonet, vt ad fontem recurramus, id est, ad Apo∣stolicam Traditionem, & indè canalem in nostra tempora 〈◊〉〈◊〉, optimum est, & sine dubitatione facien∣dum, &c. Basil. Hom. 28. c. Sabel. & Arian. Tho. Wald. Doctr. fid. lib. 2. ca. 19. Cassand. d. Offic. boni viri. Andrad. [ D] Def. Trid. fid. lib. 2. Quae totius antiquitatis consensu firmata sunt.