A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*

ANSVVER. [ A]

THis definition may perchance agree to some Images a, to wit, to the pictures of persons, & visible creatures which were taken from the immediate beholding of the Proto∣type, but not to such Images as are made by coniecture b, or vpon fabulous and Apocriphall reports, such as are the Images of Christ, and of the Prophets, Apostles, and many other Saints, drawne and pourtrayed many ages since their depar∣ture [ B] out of the world. Papists (besides many other formes) de∣paint the blessed Virgin, like the Queene of Heauen, with a crowne of Starres, and clothed with the Sunne, and treading the Moone vnder her feet. This and the like Images are false represents, neither haue they direct and immediate correspon∣dence to the parts and qualities of the persons represented. And whereas the Iesuit tearmeth an Image (meaning such as is vsed in his Church) A distinct and liuely pourtraiture, &c. he should rather haue said, A confused and dead pourtraiture d: for who is able to deliuer a distinct and liuely Picture, truely resembling Christs humane bodie, or the countenance, fea∣ture, [ C] and proportion of many other Saints deceased? And Cle∣mens Alexandrinus e speaking of a painted Image, doth not call it liuely, but saith that it is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, a dead matter formed by a workemans hand: 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. But we (saith he) vse no Image made of sensible matter, but such onely as is perceiued by vnderstanding.

But if we consider the Pictures and Puppets which now a daies in most places, our Romists make of the blessed Virgin, we may wish that they had made only dead or confused pour∣traitures. [ E] And what Christian eyes, if not bleared with the fogge of Superstition, can with patience behold the dresses, at∣tires, and various fashions, wherin they 〈◊〉〈◊〉 present the B. Virgin; yea many times like a Curtesane, or after the lightestand most

immodest fashions of the world? What proportion or cor∣respondence [ A] is there with the sampler, in these prodigious formes?

Notes

• c Alchasar. A∣poc. 12. Bernard. serm. d. Virg. Maria. Signum magnū ap∣paruit in Coelo, mulier amicta Sole & Luna sub pedibus eius, & in capite eius corona duodecem Stellarum. Til∣man. Bredenbach. Collat. Sacr. lib. 3. cap. 23. Progressi sunt ad Imaginem B. Virginis 〈◊〉〈◊〉, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Sole, & Lu∣nam [ D] sub pedibus habentem, ex laqueati Ecclesiae dependentem. Benzon. sup. Magnif. lib. 1. cap. 18. pag. 103. Core∣na. B. Virg. Mariae, in Prolog. fol. 1. Osorius Conc. tom. 5. Dominic. Aduent. 2. pa. 16.
• a

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. Orig. lib. 8. ca. 8. Simula∣chra à similitudine nuncupata, eo quod manu 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ex lapide aliaue ma∣teria corum vultus imitantur, in quo∣rum honorem fin∣guntur. Cabrera. in 3. q. 25. ar. 3. disp. 3. §. n. 63. Dicitur I∣mago ab imitando, quià imitatur & re∣presentar interiora exemplaris, expri∣mens, illud secuti est.
• b

  Arnob. c. Gent. li. 6. Vndè 〈◊〉〈◊〉 an 〈◊〉〈◊〉 haec, quae Dijs im mortalibus vicaria substitutio∣ne formatis, simili∣tudiné habeāt, &c. potest enim fieri, vt barbatus in Coelo sit, qui hic à vobis effingitur len is. Lact. d. ver. Relig. li. 2.
• d

  Arnob. Adu. Gent. li. 6. Ludus est simulachra ista confingere, normina illis tanquam propria dedicare quibus, si habitum detrahas tollatur cognitio 〈◊〉〈◊〉. Lactant. Instit. lib. 2. cap. 18. Quicquid similatur id 〈◊〉〈◊〉 sit necesse est, nec potest 〈◊〉〈◊〉 verinomen accipere, quod veritatem suco & imitatione mentitur.
• e

  Clem. Alexandr. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉. pag. 25. Agobard. d. Pict. & Imag. Homo facere non potest quicquam in quo sit similitudo hominis in men∣te & ratione. Nàm si exprimit vtcunquè sculpendo vel pingendo aliquam similitudinem corporis aut membro∣ram, hoc vtiquè exprimit quod minimum est in homine non quod maximum. Epiphan. tom. 2. li. 3. Haer. 59. siuè 79. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, &c.