A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*
White, Francis, 1564?-1638., Laud, William, 1573-1645., Baylie, Richard, b. 1585 or 6, attributed name., Cockson, Thomas, engraver., Fisher, John, 1569-1641.

IESVIT. [ C]

Nor doth it follow, That if wee worship the Image of Christ, and the Crosse that he died on, that we should also adore Iudas his lips, which touched our Sauiours sacred mouth, when he gaue him that trayterous kisse. For it is easie to shew many differences betwixt Judas his lips, and the Crosse.

First, Iudas his lips were conioyned substantially with [ D] Iudas, that none could bow or bend vnto them and kisse them, without seeming to bow and doe honour to his person: In regard he being an intellectuall Creature, was an obiect capable of veneration, terminated and stayed in his owne person. But the Crosse being a sencelesse thing, is not an ob∣iect sufficient to stay veneration within it selfe; neither is it a part belonging to the substance of any wicked man, that concurred to the punishing of our Sauiour, but rather was [ E] fixed vnto, and ioyned with his Bodie: and so the outward bowing to the Crosse, is done mentally onely vnto Christ, whom we behold as stretched thereon.

Page  234 Secondly, the Crosse, the Nailes, the Launce, and other [ A] such instruments being sencelesse creatures, may be thought of as things sanctified by the touch of our Sauiours bodie, not hauing in them any thing contrarie to the sanctitie of Christ, and so could not hinder the conceipt of such impu∣ted sanctitie. But Iudas being most wicked and detestable, and full of the most horrible treason that euer was, did so defile and prophane his whole person, and all the parts thereof, that the meere touch of our Sauiours most sacred [ B] mouth could not sanctifie, nor make holy vnto Christian imagination his lips, without changing and sanctifying his heart; for so long as he continueth without repenting his treason, the liuely remembrance of that execrable fact doth so possesse a Christian heart, as no respectfull thought to him can enter vnto it.

Finally, the Passion of Christ may bee considered two waies: First, as proceeding from the will of wicked men, [ C] the Diuels instruments, to torment him, in which considera∣tion it is not gratefull vnto God, but a detestable sinne in the authors thereof: Secondly, it may be considered, as recei∣ued in the bodie of Christ, as abiding and continuing in his sacred person, admitted in his heart, and offered to his Fa∣ther for the sinnes of the world, and by this consideration it is sacred and venerable. The lips of Iudas betraying Christ, as the hands also of the wicked Minister, that [ D] strucke him in Caiphas his house, and other like instru∣ments conioined with wicked persons, were instruments of Christs passion, as it proceeded from their wicked hearts, and consequently as it was a detestable action; but the Crosse, the Nailes, and the Lance that stayed in, and were conioined vnto the bodie of Christ, were instruments of Christs Passion, as lodged in his sacred person, and as offe∣red to his heauenly Father, and consequently as of a thing most highly venerable. [ E]