A counterblast to M. Hornes vayne blaste against M. Fekenham Wherein is set forthe: a ful reply to M. Hornes Answer, and to euery part therof made, against the declaration of my L. Abbat of Westminster, M. Fekenham, touching, the Othe of the Supremacy. By perusing vvhereof shall appeare, besides the holy Scriptures, as it vvere a chronicle of the continual practise of Christes Churche in al ages and countries, fro[m] the time of Constantin the Great, vntil our daies: prouing the popes and bishops supremacy in ecclesiastical causes: and disprouing the princes supremacy in the same causes. By Thomas Stapleton student in diuinitie.

The .12. Chap. Conteyning a Confutation of M. Hornes answer, made to the woordes of Athanasius.

Stapleton.

HEre is nowe one other allegation by M. Fekenham proposed out of Athanasius. Hosius the Bisshop of Corduba (saith M. Fekenham) who was present at the first Nicene Councel, hath these wordes, as Athanasius writing against the Emperour Constantius doth testifie.* 1.1 Yf this be a iudgement of Bisshops, what hath the Emperour to do there with? But one the contrary parte, yf these thinges be wrought by the threates and menaces of Emperour: what neade is there of anye men besides, to beare the Bare Ti∣tle of Bisshoppes? When from the beginning of the worlde hath it bene heard of, that the iudgement of the Churche toke his authority of the Emperour? Or when hath this at any tyme bene agnised for a iudgement? Many synodes haue ben be∣fore this tyme: many Councels hath the Church holden: but the tyme is yet to come,* 1.2 that either the fathers went about to per∣suade the Prince any such matter, or the Prince shewed him selfe to be curiouse in matters of the Churche. But nowe we haue a spectacle neuer sene before: browght in by Arrius he∣resye. The heretikes and the Emperour Constantius are assem∣bled, that he may vnder the colour and title of Bisshops, vse his power, against whome it pleaseth him. M. Horne to this al∣legation aunswereth, that M. Fekenham doth Athanasius threfolde wronge. &c.

To the first wronge I replie, that putting the case that these are not Hosius his words, but Athanasius: M. Feken∣hams matter is nothing thereby hindered, but rather fur∣thered: considering the excellent authority, that Athana∣sius hath and euer had in the Churche. And Hosius hath

euen in the said epistle of Athanasius, and but one leaf be∣fore, a much like sentence, proceding of a couragious and a godly boldenes. Medle not you Syr Emperour (saieth he to the forsayed Constantius) with matters Ecclesiastical, neither cōmaund vs in this parte, but rather learne these thinges of vs. God hath committed to you the Empire, and to vs those things that appertaine to the Churche. And therefore,* 1.3 euen as he that maligneth and spiteth your Empire, doeth contrarie Gods ordinance: so take ye head, least ye in medling with matters of the Church, doe not runne into some greate offence. Whereas (for the second wrong done to Athanasius) you say, that M. Fekenham hath lefte one material word out of Athanasius, ye haue turned that worde, to one halfe hundred wordes, with a nedelesse declaration the space of one whole leafe at the least. And yet you neuer come nigh the matter. Be∣side (such is your wisedome) ye alleage in this your extra∣ordinarie glose an epistle of S. Ambrose, which doth so cō∣firme M. Fekenhams present allegation,* 1.4 and is so agreable to Athanasius, ād so disagreable to the cheife principle of al this your boke, that I maruel that euer ye would ones name it, vnlesse ye neuer read it your self, but trusted the collector of your cōmon places. For the law of Va∣lentinian, whereof we spake before, is in that epi∣stle, to the yong Valentian. Whē euer heard you (sayth he) that in a cause of faith lay mē gaue iudgment vpon a Bishoppe? If we will peruse and ouerloke, either the order of holie write, or the Auncient tyme: who is there that will denie, that in matter of Faythe, I saie, saieth S. Ambrose, in matter of faieth, but that the Bishoppes are wonte to iudge vppon the Em∣perours, and not the Emperours vppon the Bishoppes?

He saith againe afterward: If there be any conference to be had touching the faith,* 1.5 it must be had emong the Priestes. And how this doctrine of S. Ambrose which is the doctrine of the catholike Church, and most conformable to the saying of Athanasius, agreeth either with your late acte of parlia∣ment, wherby the catholik bishops were deposed, or with the doctrine of your boke, euery man may see. Yea S. Am∣brose saieth yet farder, that the Emperour Valētiniā, whose sonne (being enduced thereto by the Arrian bishop Auxē∣tius) woulde nedes call the bishop before his benche, and Iudge ouer him, made an expresse lawe, that: In matter of faithe,* 1.6 or of any ecclesiastical order, he should iudge, that were neither by office vnequal, neither by right vnlike. That is as S. Ambrose him selfe expoundeth it. Sacerdotes de Sacerdoti∣bus voluit iudicare. He woulde haue Priestes to iudge ouer Priestes. And not only in matters ecclesiastical or of faithe, but saieth S. Ambrose: Si aliâs argueretur Episcopus, & morū esset examinanda causa, etiā hanc voluit ad Episcopale iudiciū pertinere. If otherwise also a Bishop were accused, and a question touching maners were to be examined, this que∣stion also that Emperour woulde haue to belonge to the trial and Iudgement of Bishops. Here you haue, that yt be∣longeth not to Princes to be iudges vppon priests either in matters of faith, either in matters touching liuing and mā∣ners: which doth vtterly destroy al your new primacy, and your late acte of Parliament, deposing the right Bishoppes, as I haue saide. And we are wel contente that councelles shoulde be free from al feare, and that Princes shoulde not appointe or prescribe to Bishops, howe they should iudge, as ye declare owt of Athanasius and S. Ambrose. Let this be as muche material as ye wil to a bishoply iudgmēte. But

I pray you, is there nothing else,* 1.7 that Athanasius saieth is material to the same? Yes truely. One of these materiall thinges was, that this Councel was made voyde and annichilated, for that Iulius the Pope did not consent to yt, as the canons of the Churche require: which commaunde,* 1.8 that neither councel be kepte, nor Bishoppes condemned withowte the Authoritie of the Bishoppe of Rome. And there∣fore Iulius did rebuke the Arrians, that they did not first of all require his aduice, which they knewe was the Custome they shoulde, and take their de∣finitiō from Rome.* 1.9 This Pope also did restore A∣thanasius againe to his Bishopprike, as your author Athanasius hym selfe declareth out of the sayde Iulius epistle to the Arrians. See Mayster Horne what a materiall thing ye haue lefte out, so ma∣teriall I say, that it maketh all your synodes, and all your depriuations of the Catholyke Bishoppes voyde: as were the doinges of the Arrians againste Athanasius. Nowe as you haue lefte out these ma∣teriall thinges: so haue ye browght foorth no materiall thing in the worlde to auoyde Athana∣sius authority. And therefore for lacke of sounde and sufficient answere, ye are driuē to make penish argumentes of your own, and then to father them vppon M. Fekenham saying to him. I doubt not, but that ye see suche faulte in your fonde sequele, that ye are, or at the least wise owght to be, ashamed thereof.

But the Sequele of M. Feckenhā is this. He saith to you with Athanasius: whē was yt heard from the creatiō of the world, that the iudgmēte of the Church

should take his authority of the Prince? When was this agnised for a iudgement? And so forth. Yf the Prince be supreame head in al causes ecclesiastical,* 1.10 if al iurisdictiō ecclesiastical, be vnited and annexed to the crowne: yf the synodical de∣crees of Bishoppes be nothing worth withowt the kinges expresse consente: yf catholike Bishops be deposed by the Princes commissiō: yf lay men only may alter the olde aun∣cient religiō (al which things with other like are now done and practised in Englande) thē doth the Church iudgmēt in Englande, take his authority of the prince and lay mē. And then may we wel, and ful pitifully cry out, whē was there any suche thinge frō the creatiō of the worlde heard of before? This this, is M. Fekenhams argument M. Horne: this is his iuste and godly scruple that staieth him, that he rūneth not headlong to the deuill, in taking an vnlawful othe, against his conscience: settled vpō no light, but vppon the weighty growndes, of holy scripture, of general coūcels, of the holy and blessed fathers, finally of the custome and belief of the whole catholike Churche: and namely among all other of this authority brought out of Athanasius:* 1.11 who also in an other place saieth, that the Arrians assembles coulde not be called synodes, wherin the Emperours deputy was president.

Wherefore it is a most opē an impudent lye that ye say, that M. Fekēham causeth Athanasius to beare false witnes against him self: how proue you this, good Syr? By this, say you, that yt is euident by Athanasius and Hosius to, that Prin∣ces haue to medle and deale in causes or thinges ecclesiasticall, namely in calling of councelles, for by this Constantius and his brother Constans the Sardicense councel was summoned. A worthie solution perdy for you, and a wonderfull contra∣dictiō for Athanasius. Ye shew vs, that they called this coū∣cel:

but that there was any thing spokē or done in that coū∣cell by Athanasius (who was there present) or other, that should cause Athanasius to be cōtrary to him self, ye shew nothing. Shal I thē answere you, as M. Iewel answereth M. D. Harding, naming this councel,* 1.12 but referring the Reader to the councel it self? This coūcel, saith M. Iewell is brought in, al in a mummery, saying nothing. And then he addeth: yet forasmuche as these men thincke yt good policy to huddle vppe theire matters in the darke, it wil not be amisse,* 1.13 to rippe them abrode, and bring thē forth to light. And yet for all this great brauery and bragge, he leaueth the matter of this coūcel as he fownd yt, and speaketh no more of yt, one way or other. Me think M. Horne, that you treade much after his steps. Ye name the coūcel, but ye tel vs not one materiall worde for your purpose out of it. I wil therfore furnishe that, that lacketh in M. Iewel and you: especially seing the matter is suche as toucheth the deposing of Athanasius, that is, our present matter, and withal, al this your present Treatise and answere to M. Fekenham.

I say thē first: the conditiōs that ye require in a Bishoplie iudgmēt were here exactly obserued. This coūcel was farre ād free frō al feare, farre frō the pallace. Here were present no Coūties with souldiars as it was wōt to be in the Arriās synodes, to extort the cōsent of the Bishops. Whervpō the Arriā bishops, who were called to this coūcel,* 1.14 ād came thi∣ther in great nūber, seing this, and seing Athanasius present (whom they had vniustly deposed) yea and ready to āswer thē, and to disproue their wrōgful doings, and finding their own cōsciencs withal gilty, had no more hart to abide the triall of this free Synode, then you and your other Prote∣stante bretherne had to appeare in the Councell of Trent.

And therfore ful pretely shronke and stole awaie.* 1.15 The or∣der of this Councel was a verie Synodicall and an Episco∣pal iudgemēt. Neither Emperour was present, nor anie de∣putie for him, that I haue yet read of, though at the request of Constans the Catholike Emperour, and by the assent of Constantius the Arrian, that councel was assembled. Nei∣ther was there either in the tyme of the councel, or after∣warde the councel being ended, anie consent or confirma∣tion required of the Emperour: and yet were there a greate number of Bishopes excommunicated and deposed to. The sentence of Pope Iulius, which, in a councel at Rome a litle before, restored Athanasius and other Bishopes by the Ar∣rians in the Easte vniustly thruste out,* 1.16 was exequuted. Ma∣nie lawes, orders, and decrees touching matters ecclesiasti∣cal were in this councel ordeined. Namely for deposing of Bishopes, and placing others in theyr romes, in all which yt was decreed, that if a Bishope deposed by his fellowe Bishoppes at home (for Princes deposed none in those daies, though banish and expell they did) would appeale to the Bishoppe of Rome, that then the Bishops who had deposed the partie appea∣ling should send informations to the Pope, and that if he thought good, the mater should be tried a freshe, otherwise the former iudgement to take effect. For final decision also of such appel∣latiōs made to Rome, it was in this general coūcel decreed, that the Pope might, either appoint cōm••ssioners to sit vpō the matter, in the Court from whence the Appeale came, or if he thought so meete▪ to send legates from his owne Consistory to de∣cide the mater. In lyke manner it was there decreed, that Bi∣shopes s••ould not haunte the Emperours palaice, excepte for certaine godly suites there mentioned, or inuited ••hi••her of the Emperour himselfe. Also of Bishopes not to be made, but

such as had continewed in the inferiour orders, certayne yeres, &c. it was in that councel decreed. All which and di∣uers other ecclesiasticall maters that councel determined, without any superiour Authoritie from the prince.

And so to conclude, this one Councel that ye bring in,* 1.17 but in a mummerie, your false visor being taken from your face, openeth what ye are, and answereth fully al this your booke: as wel for the principal mater, that the Pope ys the supreame head, and that Bishopes maie appeal to him from all quarters, as that the Prince hath no necessarie voyce in Councelles. Againe, that as wel the first as the second co∣hibitiue iurisdiction (as you diuide them) belongeth to the Bishopes.

Laste of al your greate principle,* 1.18 that you and your M. Caluin so stronglye builde vppon, that no excommunica∣tion ought to be made without the consente of the congre∣gation, where the partie that is or shalbe excommunicated dwelleth, is vtterly destroied For Theodorus, Narcissus, Acha¦tius, Stephanus, Vrsacius, Valens, Menaphontes, and Georgiu••, Arrian Bishopes, were in this councel deposed, and excom∣municated, without anie consent or foreknowledge of the congregation where they dwelled. And as this was done in this councel against these men: So was the like done in o∣ther councelles against many other heretikes. Wherefore this is a most absurde proposition of Caluin, that M. Horne his scholler so hardly maintaineth. The storie of this coūcel is at large declared by Athanasius hym self, and most strong∣ly confirmeth that his former saying, that it is no Councell of Bishopes which hath his authoritie of the Prince. Nei∣ther can M. Horne make light of this Councel as well for the foresaid cause, as for that it was populouse and frequen∣ted

by a greate number of Bishoppes of thyrtie and fyue Prouinces there present,* 1.19 of the whiche our Britannia was one, and as well Catholike for fayth, as auncient for tyme, and suche a one as theyr Decrees bynde the whole Churche. And the whole Synode sayeth: Let all the Catholike Churche dispersed through out the worlde, keepe and obserue all that we haue ordeyned. And thus muche haue I sayed, to fyll vp your emptie boxe of the Sardi∣cense Councell, that you and M. Iewell playe the iolie mummers withal.

The .175. Diuision. pag. 123. a.

M. Fekenham.

* 1.20Allmightie God saieth by his Prophete Hieremie, which was bothe a Prophete and a Prieste. Ecce dedi verba mea in ore tuo: Ecce cōstitui te super gētes & super regna, vt euellas & destruas, & disperdas, & dissipes, & aedifi∣ces,* 1.21 & plātes. Gregorius Nziāzenus sermonede dictis Hiere∣miae ad Iulianum Imperatorem: putas ne patimini vt verū vobiscum agam, suscipitis ne libertatem verbi, & libenter accipitis, quod lex Christi sacerdotali vos nostrae subiecit potestati, atque iustis tribunalibus subdit? Dedit enim nobis potestatem, dedit principatum multò perfectiorem princi∣patibus vestris, aut nunquid iustum videtur, si cedat spiritus carni, si à terrenis coelestia superentur, si diuinis praeferantur humana? Sed patienter quaeso accipite libertatem nostram. Scio te ouem esse gregis mei, scio te intra sacra altaria cum veneratione subijci manibus sacerdotis, &c.

* 1.22And by this Prophete Ezechiel almighty God saieth: Vae Pastoribus Israel, quod infirmū fuit, non consolidastis,

quod aegrotū, non sanastis: quod confractum non alligastis: quod abiectum, non reduxistis: quod perierat, non quaesistis. Into the whiche maledictions and curses, the Bishoppes and Priestes muste needes incurre, if they haue no Iuris∣diction ouer theyr flocke, if they maie not visite them, if they may not refourme them, if they maie not order and correcte them, at all tymes as they shal see cause.

Chrysostomus Homil. 5. de verbis Esaiae,* 1.23 vbi Sacerdo∣tem astruit esse medium inter Deum & Hominem, nul∣lumque honorem in terris illius honori posse conferri.

And therefore here to conclude this my obiection vnto your L. answeare, I shall here finishe the same, say∣ing with the blessed Martyr Ignatius, S Iohn the Euan∣gelistes disciple. Quòd nemo praeter Episcopum aliquid agat eorum quae ad Ecclesiam pertinent.* 1.24 And so to adio∣yne herevnto the sayinge of S. Augustine, who in spea∣kinge Contra Iulianum, ait de Doctoribus Ecclesiae: quod credunt, credo: quod tenent, teneo: quod docent, doceo: quod praedicant, praedico: istis cede, & mihi ce∣des. &c.

M. Horne

In all this parte there is not (.659.)* 1.25 one sentence, that can be dravven by any force to helpe your cause. It suffised you, to heape vp a sorte of testimonies togeather, to make a shevve, allthough nothinge to the purpose. Yea the vvoordes spoken to the Prophete Hieremie maketh plainely (.660.)* 1.26 againste you. For they shevve, that the ministers, in Gods Churche, haue au∣thoritie to plucke vp by the rootes, and to destroie euilles and the kingedome of Satan, to plante good thinges, and

to edifie the Churche, as the glose enterlined hath it, or all maner wicked and false doctrine, and what so euer the heauenly Fa∣ther hath not planted, as the glose ordinary expoundeth it. But the meanes vvhereby this iurisdiction and authority is exercised, is (.661.)* 1.27 limited and appointed in these vvordes: Beholde I haue put my woordes in thy mouthe, saithe God to Hieremy. So that other iu∣risdiction ouer people and kingdomes, than the preachinge of Goddes vvorde Hieremy had not. Hieremyes mouth is touched, saieth the glose or∣dinary, and the Lordes woordes are geuen (to him) that he shoulde receiue boldenes to preache. Of this boldenes to preache the vvoorde of God, speaketh Gregory Nazianzen. in the place by you alledged. After he had comforted his hearers, he tourneth his speache to the Princes, and suche as vvere in authority, muste we spare you (saithe he) bicause of your power, as though we feared, or were ashamed of the liberty geuē vs of Christe? Christes lawe hath made you subiect to my power, and to my iudgement seate. He speaketh of a spirituall subiection by faith, and obediēce to the minister, exhortinge, comfortinge, and edifiing to eternall life by the vvoorde of God. And he addeth more expressely, vvhat maner of rule or empire he challen∣geth, namely suche as bringeth the fleashe to be subiect to the spirite, suche as maketh earthly thinges subiect to Heauenly.* 1.28 And the subiection he re∣quireth is none other, than such as the spiritual sheepe ovveth to the spiritual pastour, vvhose rule and subiection Christe vttereth in this sentence: My sheepe heare my voice and follow me. I knovv saith Nazianzene to the Emperour, that thou arte a sheepe of my flocke, and there∣vpon he concludeth that he must, boldely preache the vvoorde to the Em∣perour, and that he on the other side is subiect therto and ought to obey. And * 1.29this is the propre Iurisdiction that belongeth to the Bishoppes and Prie∣stes, the vvh••che if they exercise vvith all possible diligence and faithful∣nes, they shal escape the curses that the Prophete Ezechiel menasseth: As cō∣traryvvise if they vse neuer so princely your popish, or rather pompous Canon Lavve iurisdiction, vvhiche consisteth in† 1.30Courtly consistories, and Forin∣secal iudgemēts, farre disagreing frō the right iurisdiction of true and Chri∣stianlike Prelates, they shal not in the ende escape the deserued maledictiōs, and curses threatned to such by the Prophet Ezechiel.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Athana∣sius in E∣pist. ad so∣litariā vi∣tam agē∣tes.
• * 1.2

  Athan. in epist. ad so¦lit. vitam agentes.
• * 1.3

  Ath. in¦dict. epist. ad solit.
• * 1.4

  Quādo au¦disti clemē¦tiss. impe∣rat. in causa fidei lai∣cos de Episcopo iudi∣casse? Et mox. Certè si vel scriptu∣rarum seriem diui∣narum, vel vetera tempora retracte∣mus, quis est qui ab∣nuat in causa fidei, in causa inquā fidei, Episcopos solere de imperatoribus, non imperatores, de Epi∣scopis iudicare?
• * 1.5

  Et postea. Si confe∣rēdum est de fide, sa¦cerdotum debet esse ista col∣latio.
• * 1.6

  Ambros. lib. 5. epi. 32.

  Ibidem.
• * 1.7

  VVhat materiall thing M. Horne hath lefte out tou∣ching this story of the deposition of Athanasius.
• * 1.8

  Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 8. & 17.

  Sozom. lib. 3. cap. 8.10. & 11.

  Trip. lib. 4. cap. 9.15 & 19.
• * 1.9

  Athanas. in Apolog. 2. contra Arrianos. Oportuit secundum canonem, & non ist•• modo iudicium fieri: oportuit scribere no∣bis omnibus, vt ita ab omnibus quod iu∣stum esset decernere∣tur. & mox. An ig∣nari estis hanc con∣suetudinem esse vt primum nobis s••ri∣batur, vt hinc quod iustum est, definiri possit? Quapropter si ist uc huiusmodi suspitio in episcopum concepta fuerit, id huc ad nostram Ec∣clesiam referri opor∣tuit.
• * 1.10

  Marke M. Fekē∣hams ine¦uitable ar¦gument.
• * 1.11

  Athanas. apol. 2. cōtra Ar∣ri. Qua fronte cō∣uentū sy∣nodi ap∣pellare audēt, cui Comes pr••sedit?
• * 1.12

  In his re∣plie Fol. 240.
• * 1.13

  A preti•• mūmery of M Ie∣vvel and M. Horn concer∣ning the Sardicēse councell.
• * 1.14

  Ath. in¦dict. epi∣stol. ad so∣lit. vitam agentes.
• * 1.15

  Theodor. li. 2. ca. 8. Niceph. li. 9. c. 12. Id quod Constans sic petierat Constātius autē assen¦serat.
• * 1.16

  Vide epist. Concil. Sard. in Theodor. li. 2 ca. 8. Tripart. li. 4. c. 24. Athanas. in epist. ad solit. vitā agentes. Cano. 4.5 7.8. & 13.
• * 1.17

  This coū∣cel vvas holden. An. 350.
• * 1.18

  M. Horne and Cal∣uins opi∣nion con¦futed by the pra∣ctise of Sardicē•••• Councell. Vide Ath••¦nas. ibidē.
• * 1.19

  Cano. 21. Omnis sy∣nodus di∣xit: vniuer¦sa quae con¦stituta sūt Catholica ecclesia in vniuerso orbe diffu¦sa custo∣diat.
• * 1.20

  Hier. 1.
• * 1.21

  Greg. Na∣zian. de Hier. dict. oratioe 18. ad subdi∣tos timore perculsos, & impera¦torē irasen¦tem.
• * 1.22

  Ezech. 34
• * 1.23

  Chrysost. Hom. 5. de verb. Esa.
• * 1.24

  Ign. epist. 7. ad Smyrnēs.
• * 1.25

  The .659 vntruth. Most impudent, as shall appeare.
• * 1.26

  The .660. vntruth. After the same ma∣ner, as before.
• * 1.27

  The .661. vntruth. The Iu∣risdiction of church Ministers is not li∣mited in these vvordes
• * 1.28

  Ioan. 10.
• * 1.29

  This is so in dede but not this only.
• † 1.30

  Be not your Cō∣sistories Courtly and pom∣pous M. Horne? Remēbre your self, I pray you.