The general session conteining an apologie of the most comfortable doctrine concerning the ende of this world, and seconde comming of Christ, written by Thomas Rogers. The first part, wherein for the comfort of the godlie is proued not onely that God wil, but also that he doth iudge this world.

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Title
The general session conteining an apologie of the most comfortable doctrine concerning the ende of this world, and seconde comming of Christ, written by Thomas Rogers. The first part, wherein for the comfort of the godlie is proued not onely that God wil, but also that he doth iudge this world.
Author
Rogers, Thomas, d. 1616.
Publication
At London :: Printed by Henrie Middleton for Andrew Maunsell,
Anno. 1581.
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Subject terms
Judgment Day -- Early works to 1800.
End of the world -- Early works to 1800.
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http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A10964.0001.001
Cite this Item
"The general session conteining an apologie of the most comfortable doctrine concerning the ende of this world, and seconde comming of Christ, written by Thomas Rogers. The first part, wherein for the comfort of the godlie is proued not onely that God wil, but also that he doth iudge this world." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A10964.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 21, 2025.

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CHAP. 15. (Book 15)

Against à vane opinion that the Saints, yea in this world, haue no sinne. (Book 15)

NOtwithstanding this being so appa∣rent, that it cannot be doubted of; & so true, that the Scripture doth confirme what so euer hath bine written: yet some fantastical heades wil not let to saie, yea and to publish also, that the Saintes are without al manner sinne, or do not sinne at al.

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Whose wordes if theie be true, then doth God against al iustice in punishing them so seuerelie, and that without ceas∣sing, who deserue not the same, beeing pure from al contagion of wickednes. For this necessarilie must be inferred vp∣on their wordes, although happilie theie do not marke so much. To proue their o∣pinion theie bring diuers, as theie thinke, substantial arguments; of which I wil re∣cite, though not al, yet the strongest, that such as either be assaulted by their So∣phismes; or shal heare their argumentes, maie the more easilie both dissolue, and abhorre them.

Theie saie therefore by an argument à diuisione:

The Saintes are without both original & actual sinnes:* 1.1

Ergo theie haue no sinne.* 1.2

For confirmation of their false ante∣cedent, theie first labour to proue that theie are without original sinne, and that by this argument.

That sin which is forgiuē, remaineth not.* 1.3 But Baptisme is à seale to assure the con∣sciences of the faithful,* 1.4 that original sinne is forgiuen:

Therfore it remaneth not.* 1.5 And if it doth

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not remane, then are the Saintes without ori∣ginal sinne.

The Maior is vntrue. For original,* 1.6 yea al sinnes are forgiuen through the obe∣dience of Christ. For he being iust, did suf∣fer for the vniusta 1.7; and hath taken-awaie the sinnes of the worldb 1.8; so y by his stripes theie are healedc 1.9, and sanctified by his bloudd 1.10. Yet remaineth, though there raigneth not, much wickednes yea in the godlie, as both concupiscence of the hart, and other sinnes. Which sinnes (although theie remane in them) are not to their hurt, because theie beleeue in him that iustifieth the vngodliee 1.11. For, their faith is counted for righteousnesse; and theie are in God his sight, pure, holie, and faultlesse. Wherof it is that Theie are pro∣nounced Blessed, not which are without sinnes, but whose iniquities are forgiuenf 1.12; not theie which are pure from al wicked∣nes, but whose sinnes are couered.

Secondlie, to proue that theie are with∣out actual sinne, thus theie reason:

Where there is no condemnation,* 1.13 there is no sinne.

* 1.14 To the Saints there is no condemnationg 1.15: Therefore in the saintes there is no sinne.* 1.16 I aunswere vnto the Maior, where

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there is no condemnation, there is no sinne vnto death. For the sinnes of them which are in Christ Iesus are venial, or pardoned, or blotted-out euen as though they had neuer bene committed. Not∣withstanding they are suffered to be in the godlie, yea and to assaile them sore, that they may continuallie beare in mind howe much they are bound vnto God, and stil seeke to please him whose helpe they stande alwaies in neede of. For the flesh lusteth against the spirith 1.17, and, as the prouerbe is, he is liuelesse that is faultlesse. And yet, who shal laie anie thing to the charge of Gods choseni 1.18? it is God that iusti∣fieth, who shal condemne? so that, there is no condemnation to the faithful, not be∣cause they are cleare from al contagion of wickednes; but for that their sinnes are not imputed vnto them.

For mans righteousnes, is Gods merciek 1.19. Againe saie they: Whosoeuer is borne of God, sinneth notl 1.20.

But the saints are borne of God:

Therefore the saints do not sinne.

For the better answering this argu∣ment,* 1.21 it is to be considered, that ye saints haue à double generation, one à carnal of their earthly parents, ye other a spiritual,

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of God: according to the diuersitie wher∣of theie are carried diuerslie, partlie with humaine, and partly with diuine cogita∣tions. By the carnal generation, their flesh lusteth against the spiritm 1.22; by the spiritual, the spirite lusteth against the flesh: by the carnal, they sinne in manie thingsn 1.23; by the spiritual, theie shewe their faith by their workso 1.24: by the carnal,* 1.25 theie are sinnersp 1.26; & by y spiritual, they abide in God, & auoid sinne,* 1.27 because theie are the sonnes of Godq 1.28.

Therefore, saith Augustiner 1.29, consume that wherebie we are the sonnes of the flesh, and of the world, and that wil come vnto per∣fection, wherebie we are the sonnes of God, & redeemed in the spirite. This made the same Iohn to saie, Dearelie beloued, now are we the sonnes of god, but yet it doth not appeare what we shalbe. What meaneth this, We are, and we shalbe, but onelie that we are in hope, but shalbe indeede? For afterwarde hee saith, wee know that when he shal appeare, we shalbe like him; for we shal see him, as he is. Therefore we both nowe haue begun to bee like him in this world because we enioie the first fruits of the spirit; and are yet vnlike him, through the remnants of the olde man. Then, so f••••forth as we are like him, so farforth we are through the regeneration of the spirite, the sonnes of

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God: but by howe much we are vnlike him, by so much we are the sonnes of the flesh, and of the worlde. In respect of the one, wee cannot sinne: but in respect of the other, if we saie that we haue no sinne, wee deceiue our selues. and so Augustine.

Bernard answereth vnto the maior on this wises 1.30, Whosoeuer is borne of God, sinneth not, that is, saith he, resteth not in sinne; or sinneth not, that is, it is so much, as if he did not sinne. Because sinne is not imputed vnto him.

Wherefore to conclude mine answere vnto this argument, I saie with Augustine t 1.31, So long as through patience we hope for the redemption of our bodies, let vs neuer haue the faces to saie wee haue no sinne; least that arrogancie of minde, bee a most hainous of∣fence.

Moreouer they reason thus, It is the commandement of God,* 1.32 Do this, that is, fulfil the commandements, and thou shalt liueu 1.33.

The saints doe liue, that is, in the eies of God they are blessed.* 1.34

Ergo they fulfil the commandementes of God.* 1.35

Hereunto I answere, first the argu∣ment is false. For it is no good reasō, They should, therefore theie doe keepe the comman∣dements;

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or, they are commaunded to fulfil, therefore they do fulfil the lawes of God.

Secondly, the commaundementes are fulfilled two manner of waies; by Christ, and by our selues. By our selues we could neuer keepe them; and therefore Christ hath fulfilled thē on our behalfe. For (that that was vnpossible to the lawe, saith Paul x 1.36, in asmuch as it was weake, because of the flesh) God sending his own sonne in the simili∣tude of sinful flesh, and for sinne, cōdemned sin in the flesh, that the righteousnes might bee fulfilled in vs, which walke not after the flesh, but after the spirit.

Last of al vnto the minor, I saie, The saints do liue, but not through any righ∣teousnes which they haue done, or for their keeping the Lawe, it is by their faith in the bloude of Christ, for so saith Pauly 1.37.

Furthermore,* 1.38 they obiect, The saints be righteous:

Ergo they do not sinne.* 1.39

If this argumēt be meant of the saints in heauen, it is true: but if otherwise, I de∣nie the same. For the saints in this world be righteous, and yet sinners, Righteous, because God accepteth them for righte∣ous; and righteous, not absolutelie, but in

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respect of other men. So was Noah righ∣teous, but in his generationz 1.40, and ye Publi∣cane righteous, but rather than the Phari∣siea 1.41, and the spouse of Christ fairest, but among womenb 1.42. And so the saints in this world before others, rather than the wic∣ked, among men, be righteous: but sim∣plie without al comparison righteous, or without sinne they are not. For in that re∣spect God onelie is holiec 1.43; and there is none good but one, euen Godd 1.44. For no man liueth, that sinneth note 1.45.

Who then is righteous? Euen hee, as I said, whom it pleaseth God to accept for righteous. Who most righteous? He that hath the greatest faith, and doth least of∣fend. Finallie to omit the rest of their ar∣guments, thus they argue:

If the godlie do not obserue the comman∣dements of God,* 1.46 no man can fulfil them.

But the commaundements of God may be fulfilled,* 1.47 because God prescribeth nothing to be done of man, which is vnpossible to be per∣formed; or in vane.

Therefore the godlie do obserue them.* 1.48

How this argument hangeth together,* 1.49 I wil not spende time to discusse: onelie vnto the minor I saie, that the laws of god are to be fulfilled. For both ye Saints here∣after

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being vnloaden from the burden of sinful flesh, shal; and Christ in the flesh hath kept them, not transgressing the lest precept, nor any iote of them. Notwith∣standing that which hee was able to doe, man cannot do in this world: and yet are the laws of God prescribed to man, not in vane. Because manifold commodities do spring thereof.

For, first by the Lawe we gather how there is God.* 1.50 Because it is vnpossible, that those most true and certaine notices tou∣ching the difference of honest and disho∣nest thinges, expressed in the law, should either be knowen, or continue without the prouidence of some God.

Againe by the Law we may learne the disposition of God;* 1.51 as that he is al righ∣teous, al holie, merciful, true &c. For, se∣ing the seedes and sparcles of those vir∣tues are in the mindes of man; and that it is vnpossible that the cause can be worser then the effect, it must needes be, that the virtues commended to men in the Lawe of God, and glitter somewhat in our na∣ture, bee most gloriouslie, and singularly in God himself. Neither may it be doub∣ted, but God by his Lawe doth shewe himselfe what he is: euen as the ciuil laws

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of à countrie declare the inclination of those men which made them.

Againe,* 1.52 by the Lawe of God we maie, as in a glasse, behold to what end man at the first was created, or in what à state of perfection our first parentes Adam and Euah were. For with such virtues were they adorned, yea, and with such, af∣ter the state of this life, shal the saints of God be endued withal, as the lawe exa∣cteth: That is, both they did, and we shal, both knowe God perfectlie, and serue him zelouslie, and loue him and one a∣nother faithfullie, hartelie, and blessedly.

Againe, by the lawe we may see howe filthilie we are polluted, and defiled with sinne. Wherefore he that would knowe ye manifold spots, wrinckles, and corrup∣tion of mans nature, let him go vnto the looking glasse of God his lawe, and he shal easilie perceiue in the mind, à darke ignorance of God; in the wil, à declining from and loathing of true religion; in the heart vitious affections; & in al the mem∣bers, an horrible deformitie.

Againe,* 1.53 by the Lawe we may knowe what an ouglie, filthie, and abhominable thing, sinne is. For saith Paulf 1.54. I knewe not sinne, but by the Lawe. For I had not

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knowen lust, except the lawe had saide, Thou shalt not lust.

Againe,* 1.55 by the Lawe we are brought vnto Christ. For the Lawe, as noteth Paul g 1.56, was our pettie schoolemaster vnto Christ,* 1.57 that we might bee made righteous by Faith.* 1.58 But after that faith is come, we are no longer vnder a scoolemaster. For yee are al the sons of God by faith in Christ Iesus.

The office of a pettie-schoolemaster, or of an Vsher, as we cal him, is to teach; to reforme manners; to correct; and to bring vnto an head-master. Al which the Lawe doth. For first it teacheth what God is, and of what disposition; and what we ought both to do, & to leaue vndone. Se∣condlie, it is a rule for the directing of our life. Thirdly, it correcteth, when it de∣nounceth ye wrath of god against the vn∣penitent, and condemneth. And last of al, hauing laid-open the abhomination of sinne, and the anger of God, it bringeth vs vnto Christ ye headmaster, that of him we maie learne howe to pacifie the wrath of his almightie father.

To conclude (for who is able to recite al the benefits which it bringeth!)* 1.59 by the Lawe of God, both euerie priuate man may learne howe to leade à godlie life; & euerie publike person howe to gouerne

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aright; and euerie state, condition, and calling of men, how to please God. For the cause of al enormities both publike & priuate, is the neglect or forgetting of the holie commandements of the Lord.

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