The general session conteining an apologie of the most comfortable doctrine concerning the ende of this world, and seconde comming of Christ, written by Thomas Rogers. The first part, wherein for the comfort of the godlie is proued not onely that God wil, but also that he doth iudge this world.

CHAP. 6. (Book 6)

Against H. N. or the Familie of Loue, who thinke that nowe the daie of iudgement is come. (Book 6)

AMong al the sectes which haue bene since the Apostles time, I am perswa∣ded there is not one which hath bene ei∣ther more foolishlie fantastical, or more miserablie caried-away from y^e truth vn∣to fables, & fantasies of mans grosse inuē∣tion, than (I onelie except the most blas∣phemous companie of Papists) that new disordered Familie of Loue, as theie cal it. And among al their errors, displaied by one, battered by another, & ouerthrown by à thir de, I verilie doe thinke there is not one which for impietie is more abho∣minable, than that which theie haue con∣cerning the daie of iudgement.

When I name the Familie of Loue,* 1.1 I vnderstand so many as know and defend the errors of H. N, not those who knowe them not, much lesse defend them. For e∣uerie one which leaneth vnto the sect, is not priuie to their errorsa 1.2. For the il-lu∣minate Elders knowe right wel, that ma∣nie which fauor them for the open shew of godlines that they see in them, would vtterlie abhor them, if they knew the dā∣nable heresiesb 1.3 Which priuilie they bring∣in. Therefore like subtile fellowesc 1.4 they disclose not them-selues but onelie vnto such, as be either of no religion at al, & so readie like waxe to receiue the print of al opinions; or sworne enimies, against the Gospel of Christ; as for those, who zealouslie doe hunger and thirst after righteousnes, and abhor al wicked opini∣ons contrarie to the worde of God, they make such not acquainted with their er∣rors, but feede them with faire wordes, as they can wel enough, either to make them in time euen to denie the Lord which hath bought themd 1.5, and so bring vpon them selues swift damnation; or to be some coun∣tenance vnto their curssed sect. For who neuer seeing their bookes, nor hearing of their errors, woulde thinke that to bee à

Familie of vngodlines, & heresies, which so discrete men, sober women, so ancient fathers, so graue and so godlie matrons, doe fauor? Oh the subtiltie of Satan! Oh the deceit and craft of men! O dangerous daies! O time of trial!

Notwithstanding, as the venemous Adder lurketh manie times vnder the greenest grasse; and as euerie thing which glittereth is not gold: so vnder their faire shew of à vertuous life, the elders doe hide venemous opinions; and though theie haue the shew of Godlines: yet they denie the power therofe 1.6. Euen tares they be, like wheatf 1.7; false Prophetes vnder sheepes cloathingg 1.8; seducers, yet like the ministers of righteousnesh 1.9; and as Cyril saithi 1.10, such as bite lik wolues though they would faine seme euē as simplek 1.11 as sheep, & so louing as lambes. As their opinions extant to be seene, & iudged of al men do sufficientlie declare; and shal appear euen by their errors which theie haue concer∣ning the daie of iudgement, had they no moe but them.

And what are theie? I saide in the ti∣tle of this Chapter, and also in an other placel 1.12, howe theie holde not onelie that the daie of iudgement is nowe; but also

that is alreadie past, as in the chapter following shalbe proued. For confir∣mation of their former opinion, I wil not frame an argument, as I might wel, and one doth wittilie, by the verie wordes of H.N. after this sort, Whatsoeuer the vngod∣ded, or vnilluminated Men out of the ima∣gination, or Riches of their owne Knowledge, and of their Learnednesse of the Scriptures bring-foorth, institute, preach, and teach, is assuredlie al false, and lies, seducing, & deceit fulm 1.13 But the vngodded, or vnilluminated men (which are al the godlie learned that abhor the heresies of H. N.) preach and teach that there shalbe à general iudgemēt of al mankind, and à resurrection of the flesh.

Therefore it is false, lies, seducing, and de∣ceitful to preach, and teach so.

If I should thus reason, perhaps theie woulde saie I presse them too sore, and as it were violentlie wrest à confirmati∣on from their bookes. Their owne words therefore for mee, shal confirme what I saie.

That theie holde that the daie of iudg∣ment is now, he that waieth with iudg∣ment these fewe places out of their owne workes, wil easilie confesse. I wil recite but three of them, and that from sundrie

of their workes, omitting à great many both in the first Exhortationn 1.14; in the In∣struction of the vpright faitho 1.15; in the Prophecie of the Spiritp 1.16 in y^e Prouerbsq 1.17 of H.N; and also in Elidad his exhortati∣onr 1.18. Wherebie it maie be gathered that it is not à scape, but à doctrine adui∣sedlie taught of H.N. and his scho∣lers.

The first is thiss 1.19, Beholde in this pre∣sent daie the* 1.20 glorious comming of our Lord Iesus Christ, with the many thousands of his Saints, be commeth manifested: which hath set himselfe Now vpon the seate of* 1.21 his ma∣iestie for to iudge in this same daie which the Lord hath ordeined, or appointed: the whole * 1.22worlde with equitie, and with faithful∣nes * 1.23and trueth according to his righteous∣nesse.

The wordes are plaine enough, that Christ in this present daie is come; and hath Now set himselfe vpon the seate of his Ma∣iestie, for to iudge in this same daie the whole world. Yea, he is so come that he may euen Nowe, not he onely, but thousandes of his Angels also sensiblie be seene and percei∣ued. Therefore doth hee saie, Beholde, in this present daie the glorious comming of our Sauiour. Which some haue seene, as

that dreamer Vitel for an ensample, be∣leeue him that list.

For so himselfe doth saiet 1.24: Moreouer there was made manifest vnto me, through the same seruice of Loue, and the Lords mi∣nister H.N, the comming of Christ with his Saints, and his righteous iudgement.

The second place is thisu 1.25: This is the daie which God* 1.26 hath appointed for to iudge in the same the compasse of the earth with righteousnes through his worde, in whome he hath concluded his iudgement.

The thirde shalbe thisx 1.27: For asmuch then, as that nowe in this same newest daie * 1.28the cōming of Iesus Christ as à Lord in his maiestie from the right hand of God his Fa∣ther appeareth* 1.29, and becommeth manifested vnto vs,* 1.30 with ful clearing of his heauenlie il∣lumination, according to the Scripture.

In al which places he either saith Christ cōmeth in this present daie; or, Now he is set in iudgement to iudge in this same daie; or, this is the daie which God hath appointed for to iudge in the same the compas of the earth;* 1.31 or finalie, Now in this same newest daie the comming of Iesus Christ, as à Lord in his ma∣iestie, &c. appeareth; al are in the time pre∣sent. It wilbe good therefore to examine what he meaneth by this present daie; by

Now, by this daie; by this newest daie. For therbie the hed of this viper wil notablie peepe-out to the destruction of it selfe.

For interpretation whereof, I wil not alleage the wordes of anie aduersarie of theirs, but euen their owne iudgement; yea the iudgement of the whole Familie, which is thisy 1.32 He (meaning H. N.) af∣firmeth this present time of the light of loue, to bee the daie of the cleare and righteous iudgement of God: wherein God wil restore al thinges to their right (to wit) bring or set the lie in his lieng being to be condemned in the hellish caue, and the trueth likewise in his right forme or degree, to wit, to preuaile, flourishe, or beare swaie ouer the vnrighte∣ousnes for euermore, wherebie that the wil of God might be accomplished in earth as in heauen.

In which wordes note with mee, I be∣seech you, first, what theie think the daie of iudgement to be; secondlie, at the daie of iudgement what thinges be renued; & thirdelie, the ende of his iudgement.

For the first, it is manifest that the daie of iudgement among them is nought els,* 1.33 but this time wherein the Light of Loue, that is, their obscure and erronious opi∣nions are published. For so theie doe ex∣presselie

saie: He affirmeth this present time of the light of loue to be the daie of the cleare, and righteous iudgement of God. By which I gather, either that their doctrine is but newlie vp-start, and so afore this time that God had no Church; or if theie grant, that it hath from time to time, and from hand to hand euen from the begin∣ning beene deliuered, that the daie of iudgement was alwaies, which is impie∣tie to be thought, and heresie to be spoke. Let them take which parte theie wil, as one of them theie must, they shal see how theie runne into manie, and absurde o∣pinions.

If their doctrine hath beene from the beginning, then hath the iudgement bin from the beginning. For when their do∣ctrine peeped-foorth, the iudgement ap∣peared. But that the iudgement hath bin alwaie, I thinke theie wil not saie.

Therefore their doctrine is but newe. And if it bee but newe, then is not the same, which the olde Patriarches, Pro∣phets, and Apostles preached, and belee∣ued; and wherebie theie were saued. And being not the same, it must of necessitie leade vnto damnation. And the teachers thereof are to be helde accurssed, accor∣ding

vnto the commandement of the A∣postlez 1.34.

If theie saie the iudgement of Christ hath bene from the beginning, how is it that theie saie, Beholde in this present daie the glorious comming of our Lorde Iesus Christ, with the manie thousandes of his An∣gels becommeth manifested, and not, The glorious comming of our Lorde Iesus Christ, &c. hath bin manifested from the beginning? And yet were it shameful and vile here∣sie to saie so. For what godlie man euer was of that opinion? Or howe by Scrip∣ture can there proue the same? Into which error theie must needes fal, if theie holde their doctrine hath bene alwaies; and the iudgement to appeare, that is, the glorious comming of our Lorde Iesus Christ, with ma∣nie thousandes of his Angels to appeare to iudge the world, whē the light of the Loue brake-out.

But whether theie thinke that their doctrine hath bene alwaies, which theie can neuer proue; or whether theie thinke that of late it sprang-vp, which al the worlde doth know; theie vtterlie de∣nie à iudgement to come, and saie that nowe it is: which is à verie detestable o∣pinion.

Secondlie,* 1.35 for the thinges to be renu∣ed, marke their verie wordes: They saie, In this cleare and righteous iudgement God wil restore al things to their right. That is, the head, and it seemeth goodlie, but in the taile which followeth, great poison doth lurke. For doe theie saie, That wee shal al be changed, or, that this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal im∣mortalitie, as Saint Paul dotha 1.36? or that the elements shal melt with heate, and the earth with the workes that are therein shalbe burnt-vp, as S. Peter dothb 1.37? or finalie, that al thinges shalbe so renued, that there shalbe a newe heauen, and à newe earth, as Saint Iohn dothc 1.38? No. Yet do theie saie, God wil restore al things to their right.

What doe theie meane then therebie? To wit, God wil bring or set the lie in his lieng being, to be condemned in the hellish caue, & the trueth likewise in his right forme or de∣gree. Then to bring or set the lie in his li∣eng being, to bee condemned, &c. is to restore al thinges. A goodlie reason no doubt. That which the Scripture spea∣keth of, theie neuer mention; and that which the Scripture is against, theie a∣uouch. The Scripture saith, al things shal∣be 〈2 pages missing〉〈2 pages missing〉

& it nameth what, as afore I said,* 1.39 namelie the bodies of al men,* 1.40 be they aliue or deadd 1.41; the elementse 1.42; heauen and earthf 1.43: but that the lie in his lieng being shoulde be restored,* 1.44 I finde no mention neither in the worde of God, nor in the wri∣tinges of godlie men. And therefore in my iudgement it is à great error to saie so.

And the rather I thinke it, because I neuer finde that à restoring shalbe made of things either absolutely good, or abso∣lutely euil: but of things indifferent. For neither can virtue bee turned into vice, nor vice into virtue; trueth cannot be∣come falsehoode, nor falsehoode be∣come trueth. No, theie cannot degenerate in anie sort from their verie natures. And therefore à restitution cannot be made of them, as though theie had changed ei∣ther into others nature. But man for that being left in his owne handes to chuse either good or euil, he left that good was and followed the contrarie, hee must be restored vnto his first integritie: and the creatures which haue serued to the lust of man, theie shalbe renued.

Thirdlie, and last of al, the end of the iudgement which theie faine,* 1.45 is, That

the wil of God maie be accomplished in earth as in heauen. The grossenes of the former mer pointes maie palpablie be percea∣ued, and yet theie wil seeme more blas∣phemouslie wicked, when the impietie of this last clause is discouered.

These thinges come to passe, saie the Familie, That the wil of God maie be ac∣complished in earth, as in heauen. Where∣bie, as I nowe sit, me thinkes theie i∣magine verie baselie, and grosselie of the euent of this iudgement. Saint Paul saithn 1.46, When al thinges shalbe subdued vn∣to him, (meaning Christ) thē shal the sonne also himselfe be subiect vnto him, that did subdue al thinges vnder him, that God maie be al in al. That God maie be al in al is the euent of this iudgement, saith Paule: that the wil of God maie be accompli∣shed in earth as in heauen, saie the Fa∣milie. Thus are the Scriptures, and the Familie of Loue cleane contrarie, not in this point onelie, but in the other points beside. For the Scripture saith, That in à momēt in the twinkling of an eieo 1.47, iudgemēt shalbe: the Familie make it either euerla∣sting, or of long continuance, & saie that Now it is. The scripture testifieth y^t al mē,

and other creatures shalbe restored: the Familie restraine it vnto the Lie in his li∣eing being, and to the truth; of which there is no mention in the Scripture. The scrip∣ture maketh nothing capable of euerla∣sting felicitie, but the obedient seruantes and sonnes of God: the Familie make vir∣tue capable both of the same, & of dam∣nation too; as though virtue could be contrarie vnto virtue, that is, Trueth vnto Righteousnesse, or Righteousnesse vnto Trueth. Finalie the Scripture proueth the ende of the iudgement to be, that God maie bee al in al: the Familie wil haue it, that the wil of God maie be ac∣complished in Earth, as in heauen, that is, that theie maie leade à life answerable vnto the forme which H.N. hath prescri∣bed in this present worlde.

For proofe of which my wordes I could cite manie places both out of the Prophecie of the spirite of Louep 1.48, and out of the Prouerbes of H. N.q 1.49, and also out of the spiritual land of peacer 1.50, but for al heark what in his Euangelie he doeth saies 1.51. Beholde nowe in This present daie is the Scripture fulfilled1 1.52 and according to the testimonie of the Scripture, the raising vp, & the resurrection of the Lordes dead commeth

also to passe2 1.53 Presentlie in this same daie through the appearing of the comming of Christ in his maiestie3 1.54. Which resurrection of the dead, seeing that the same Is come vn∣to vs4 1.55 from Gods grace, we doe likewise this present daie, to an Euangelie or ioieful mes∣sage of the kingdome of God and Christ, pub∣lish in al the world, vnder the obedience of the Loue, In which resurrection of the dead, GOD sheweth vnto vs5 1.56 that the time is Now fulfilled, that His dead, or the dead, which are fallen à sleepe in the Lorde6 1.57 rise vp in This daie of his iudgement7 1.58, and ap∣peare 8 1.59vnto vs in godlie glorie, which shal from hence-forth liue in vs9 1.60, euerlastinglie 10 1.61with Christ11 1.62, and raigne12 1.63 vpon earth.

Were it my minde to stande vpon this place of H. N. I could easilie proue moe curssed errours in the same than it containeth lines: but I hasten vnto other matters, I alleage it in this place onelie to shewe, that he teacheth happines to bee naught els, but à pretended righteousnes in this present worlde, and that such as be risen-againe from the dead, and en∣ioie

felicitie, doe liue and raigne vppon earth.

Then by their owne wordes, if the iudgement be come; if the dead be raned; if happinesse bee attained, they shal ne∣uer be partakers of the fruites of the se∣cond resurrection, nor of those thinges which eye hath not seene, neither eare hath heard, nor heart conceiued prepared for such as loue Gods 1.64. For they are hap∣pie alreadie in their owne opinions, in mine theie are of al men the most misera∣ble; and that partlie because they are al∣together destitute both of faith, without which it is impossible to please Godt 1.65, and al∣so of Hope, without which they cannot bee sauedu 1.66. For Faith is the grounde of thinges that are hoped for, and the euidence of things that are not seeneI 1.67. Which thinges being once seene and attained, Faith cesseth, and hope vanisheth-awaie. For howe can à man hope for that which he seethy 1.68? But if we hope for that wee see not, we do with patience abide for it.

They therefore being come vnto the top of blessednesse, haue banished-awaie al Faith, Hope, and feare of God. Mar∣uel then I wil no more whie they cal themselues the familie of Loue; neither

whie they so highlie commend Loue, say∣eng of those three virtues, Faith, Hope, and Loue, the chiefest is Louez 1.69; neither whie they wil needes be caled, not the householde of Faitha 1.70, but the Familie of Loue, for I haue them nowe. They are come, forsooth, vnto the third forme, and become capitanes in the schoole of Christ, they are past Faith, and Hope* 1.71, and are come vnto Loue, which is the chiefest, wherebie they are like Angels, what saie I like Angels? Theie are God∣ded with Godb 1.72, or incorporated with God in al Loue; and are consubstantiated or conformablie vnited as one man of God in Godc 1.73.

Especialie I account them of al men the most miserable,* 1.74 for that theie take drosse for golde, miserie for happinesse; this life for à blessed life; earth for hea∣uen; yea theie dreame or doate rather that theie see God, not through à glasse darkelied 1.75, but face to face; and knowe him not in parte, but as theie are knowen; and are in such à state where∣in theie laugh alwayes, and neuer weepe; liue alwaies, and neuer die; alwaies reioice, and neuer bee sadde; al∣waies merrie, and neuer sorrowful,

in pleasure alwaie, and neuer in paine. For that is y^e state of an happie lifee 1.76. And yet who seeth not that they liue wret∣chedly as sinners; and die like men, to speake no worser of the ends which com∣monlie they haue.

Nowe, by what auctoritie of scripture doth H. N. proue that the iudgement is nowe (for that would be considered?) His principal places be taken out of the 24. and 25. of Matthewe; the first and the 17. of the Actes; the 17. and the 21. of Luke; the 2. Thessal. 1; and the Epistle of Saint Iude. In al which places menti∣on is made of the vtter destruction of the worlde, and of the seconde comming of our Sauiour vnto the general iudgement: and proue as wel that the daie of iudge∣ment is come as that text, where it is said: f 1.77Beholde I sende mine Angel or messenger,* 1.78 which shal prepare the waie,* 1.79 or make plaine the path before Me,* 1.80 set afore most of their Bookes, doth proue that H. N. is the mes∣senger of Christ. Thus much against the Familie of Loue, and this one opinion of theirs, as wicked, as it is strange, and vn∣heard-of vntil these late yeares.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Who are the Familie of Loue.
• a 1.2

  In the dis∣plaieng of the Familie of Loue, leafe H. 4. Art. 6 6.
• b 1.3

  2. Pet. 2, 1.
• c 1.4

  Ephes. 4, 14.
• d 1.5

  2. Pet. 2. 1.
• e 1.6

  2. Tim. 3. 5.
• f 1.7

  Matt. 13, 24.
• g 1.8

  2. Cor. 11, 14.
• h 1.9

  2. Cor. 11, 15.
• i 1.10

  Cyril. Catech. 4. de decem dog∣mat.
• k 1.11

  E. R. one of the Familie in his Epist. sent vnto M. Iohn Rogers, and is to be found a∣mong the Epist. annexed vnto the displaieng of the Familie. leafe L. 6.
• l 1.12

  Afore, Chap. 5. pagi. 16.
• m 1.13

  H. N. in his 1. Exhort. cap. 16 sen. 17. page 43. b.
• n 1.14

  H.N. in his first Exhort. cap. 6. sent. 1, 2. 3. 5. cap. 7. sent. 42.
• o 1.15

  H.N in his Instruct. praef. Set. 1. 3, 5. Art. 8 sēt. 35. Arti. 11. sent. 42. Ex∣hort. after to those Art. sent. 1.
• p 1.16

  H.N. in Pro∣phecie of the spi¦rite of loue, cap. 14. Sent. 7. cap. 16. Sent. 6, 7, 8. Cha 19 sent. 14.
• q 1.17

  H.N. in his Prouerbs Chap. 1. sent. 17. 18.
• r 1.18

  Elidad a fel∣lowe Elder with H.N. in his Ex∣hort. sent. 33, 34 35.
• s 1.19

  H. N. in his E∣uang. Chap. 2. sent. 1.
• * 1.20

  Isai 3. b. Mat. 24, d Mat. 25, d
• * 1.21

  Isai. 16, b.
• * 1.22

  Acts 17, d.
• * 1.23

  Zacha. 8. ••.
• t 1.24

  Christopher Vitel in his Li∣bel against the Booke intituled, The displaieng of an horrible sect of grosse, wicked Here∣tikes, naming themselues the Familie of Loue.
• u 1.25

  H.N. in his documental sen∣tences chap. 15. sent, 4.
• * 1.26

  Actes. 17, e.
• x 1.27

  H.N. in his preface before the instruct. of the vpright Faith, sent. 2.
• * 1.28

  Matt. 24, 25. d Luke 17, c. 21.
• * 1.29

  Act. 1, b. 2. 2.
• * 1.30

  Thes. 1. b.
• * 1.31

  What the Fa∣milie of Loue doth meane by the iudgement, in this present daie, or nowe executed.
• y 1.32

  In the answer of the Family of loue vnto the notes of the Bi∣shop of Roche∣cter, placed be∣fore the confut. of M. Wilkin∣son, leafe A, 4. line 34.
• * 1.33

  1. Daie of iudge¦ment what in the opiniō of the Familie of Loue
• z 1.34

  Gal. 1, 8.
• * 1.35

  2. What shalbe renued.
• a 1.36

  1. Cor. 15, 51. 53.
• b 1.37

  2. Pet. 3, 10.
• c 1.38

  Reuel. 21, 1.
• * 1.39

  52.
• * 1.40

  53.
• d 1.41

  1. Cor. 15, 51.
• e 1.42

  2. Pet. 3, 10.
• f 1.43

  Reuel. 21, 1.
• * 1.44

  2. Pet. 3, 13.
• * 1.45

  3. Ende of the iudgement.
• n 1.46

  1. Cor. 15, 28.
• o 1.47

  1. Cor. 15, 52.
• p 1.48

  H.N in his prophesie of the spirite of Loue Chap. 7, sent. 19. Chap, 19, sent. 12, 14.
• q 1.49

  H. N in his Prouerbs Chap. 1. sent. 16, 17, 18. Chap. 4 sent. 9. 10. &c.
• r 1.50

  H.N spiritual. terr. pacis cap. 44, sent. 9, 10, 11, 12. &c.
• s 1.51

  H. N. in his Euangelie Chap 35, sent. 8.
• 1 1.52

  Scripture in this daie of Loue fulfilled.
• 2 1.53

  Resurrection is come.
• 3 1.54

  Christ in his maiestie appea∣reth.
• 4 1.55

  Resurrection come vnto the Elders of loue.
• 5 1.56

  None but the il-luminate El∣ders knowe the fulfilling of the Scriptures.
• 6 1.57

  They onelie do rise-vp which are fallen à sleepe in the Lord.
• 7 1.58

  Dead do a∣rise in this daie of iudgement.
• 8 1.59

  Dead appeare vnto H.N. and to the Elders of the familie of loue, and that in glorie.
• 9 1.60

  The dead shal liue in the Elders of the familie.
• 10 1.61

  The dead shal liue in the Elders euerlastinglie.
• 11 1.62

  Dead shal liue in the Elders euerlastinglie with Christ.
• 12 1.63

  The dead shal raigne vpon earth; or in this world enioie absolute felicitie.
• s 1.64

  1. Cor. 2, 9.
• t 1.65

  Heb. 11, 6
• u 1.66

  Rom. 8, 24.
• I 1.67

  Heb. 11, 1.
• y 1.68

  Rom. 8, 24. 25.
• z 1.69

  1. Cor. 13, 12.
• a 1.70

  Gal. 6, 10.
• * 1.71

  yea and grace too.
• b 1.72

  H.N. in his first Exhort. ca. 16. sent. 16. but more truelie they are Diue∣led with the di∣uel, as their own phrase is, though in another sense. Christopher Vi∣tel in his Libel, leafe D. 3, b. line 21.
• c 1.73

  H.N. in the prophecie of the spirit of Loue.
• * 1.74

  Chap. 7, sent. 19.
• d 1.75

  1. Cor. 13, 12.
• e 1.76

  Reuel. 21, 4.
• f 1.77

  Mal. 3, a. 4, a.
• * 1.78

  Math. 11, 17.
• * 1.79

  Marke 1.
• * 1.80

  Luke 7.