An ansvvere to the fifth part of Reportes lately set forth by Syr Edvvard Cooke Knight, the Kinges Attorney generall Concerning the ancient & moderne municipall lawes of England, vvhich do apperteyne to spirituall power & iurisdiction. By occasion vvherof, & of the principall question set dovvne in the sequent page, there is laid forth an euident, plaine, & perspicuous demonstration of the continuance of Catholicke religion in England, from our first Kings christened, vnto these dayes. By a Catholicke deuyne.

The Catholicke Deuine.

30. The first case of this instance about tithes and probates of testaments, * 1.1 is a verie trifling thing to proue M. Attorneys great cōclusion, of supreme authoritie Ecclesiasticall to be in the tem∣porall Prince & his Courts. For as these things, and like other, are in parte belonging to spirituall iurisdiction, in that they con∣cerne benefices; the willes and ordinations of dead men for the benefit of their soules, & the like, partlie also belonging to tem∣porall, * 1.2 in that they include temporalities & worldly substance, they may in different respects appertaine also to differēt Courts, and so they doe in other Catholicke Countreys at this day: and namelie for probates of testaments, in no other Countrey (per∣haps) besides England, are they limited onlie to the Bishops spi∣rituall Courts. About which wee haue the foresaid Statutes of Circumspectè agatis vnder K. Edward the first, and of Articuli Cleri vnder K. Edward the 2. and diuers other Ordinations vnder this King Edward the 3. But how proueth all this M. Attorneys princi∣pall conclusion? And how far of is this from inferring supreme Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction to be in the temporall Prince? Is it not strange, that such a man as M. Attorney, would alleadge such toyes? But let vs goe forward.

31. If K. Edward did translate by his Charter, the Canons se∣cular

into regular, as heere is said, wee must presume he did it (as before you haue heard K. Henry the 2. to haue done it at VVal∣tham) by authority of the Popes Br••ue, confirmed by his Charter, * 1.3 and not otherwise. For as well could K. Henry the 2. haue do••e it of his owne authoritie, if it had been annexed to his Crowne, at this K. Edward the 3. And therefore seing the other obserued the Canons of the Church, and presumed not to doe it of him∣self, but by the Popes licence and Charter, and ratified by his owne, it may be presumed that this King did the same, for so much as the same Canon-law stood still in force. And so it may be suspected, that this case hath somewhat omitted couertly that should appertaine to the full declaration therof.

32. The other case also of Nicolas Morris chosen Abbot of VVal∣tham, that went to Rome and got his inuestiture there, by reser∣uation of the Pope, and not by his election in England, * 1.4 fell out at that verie time, as heere is noted, when the contention was most in heat between the King and French Popes, about reser∣uation of benefices, to wit, vpon the 4. of the Kings raigne, the said Popes agreeing soone after to vse no more the said reserua∣tions. So as no great maruaile of the Iudges of those dayes, did moue the King to make some demonstration of speciall offence against this man, the controuersie being then in handling: but this is an instance de facto and not de iure.

33. Lastlie the case of the Abbot of VVestminster made, by the Kings Charter, a distinct bodie, capable to sue, and to be sued, was a temporal priueledge, which any Prince might giue to a Couent, if it vvere commodious for them, and they willing to accept thereof: and if not, they would haue reclaimed in those daies, and haue appealed to the Sea Apostolicke for remedie, as the vse and right was at that time, and as oy diuers examples appeareth of Appellatiōs made against the King himself, during his raigne; as namelie that of the Bishop of Ely, recounted at large by VVal∣singham in the yeare 1348. and others.

34. The six instance consisteth of certaine Statutes, * 1.5 made in the 25. 27. 28. and 38. yeares in the raigne of K. Edward the 3. a∣gainst prouisious and prouisers from Rome, reseruations of Bis∣hopricks and benefices by the said Sea, vndue appellations, vn∣iust citations, infamations or molestations of men by Censures from thence. All which I thinke not good to set downe at large as they lie in the Statute booke, for that they are ouer∣longe,

but breiflie rather to alleadge the summe therof, which is sufficient for the point it self of our controuersie. First then it is said:

That in consideration of the manie inconueniences and hurtes, that seemed to ensue to the Common-wealth, as well Clergie-men, as secular, by such as went to Rome, and there by false suggestions, and other such procu∣rements, vnworthilie got vnto themselues benefices, they being either stran∣gers, not able to preach, and teach, or els, if English-men, yet vnfit for their learning, or manners, and that therby particular patrons were depriued of their right of presenting, &c? * 1.6

It was ordained vpon the 25. yeare of this Kings raigne, to punish the persons, that being subiect to the King, should attempt, or doe this without the Kings licence, or knowledge of the Realme. And so the decree of Parlament was, that whosoeuer he∣reafter should attempt, or procure any such prouisions, * 1.7 he should be out of the Kings protection, whereby euerie man might lawfullie kill him, &c.

35. And in the same Parlament, the like, and many other in∣conueniences are represented against reseruations of benefices, by the said Sea Apostolicke, and Bishops therof, whervpon it is decreed, by the King, and his great men, and Commons, that the said reseruations shall not bee suffered, or admitted for the time to come, as a thing not due to the Sea Apostolicke; But that all Archbishops, Bishops, and o∣ther dignities, and benefices Electorie in England, shall bee permitted to free election, as they were graunted by the Kings progenitours, founders therof, and the auncestors of other Lords, that had founded any such benefices, and might haue reserued to themselues, as Patrons, and founders, the presenta∣tions there vnto.

36. Moreouer Complaint being made by diuers of the Kings people, that many were greatlie troubled, and drawne out of∣tentimes of the Realme, by vnquiet and litigious people, that made appeals to Rome, to answere to things, wherof the Conu∣saunce pertained to the Kings Court, &c. It was assented, and ac∣corded by the King, and by the great men, and Commons, that whosoeuer should draw any man out of the Realme, in plea, wherof the Conusaunce per∣tained to the Kings Courts, should incurre the daunger of Praemunire. And finallie:

that no man presume to cite, sue, vex, molest any by Censures pro∣cured from the Popes Courte, against any, for obseruing these laws, and like other ordinances, vpon paine of seuere punishment, &c.

37. To all which we answere, * 1.8 that diuers circumstances may bee considered about these Statutes, Ordinances, and Decrees, as well of the times, and persons, as of the occasions, causes, and manner of doing. And to begin first with the last; it may bee,

that either all, or some parte of these restrictions might be made by some kind of consent or toleration of the Popes themselnes, vpon the often representing of the inconueniences, which we haue seen before made by diuers Princes, from K. Henry the 3. down-ward, and the answers as well of Innocentius the 4. as other Popes, that the said inconueniences should be remedied. And to the same effect putteth downe VValsingham this K. Edwards letters, * 1.9 at seuerall times, to sundry Popes for that end. And vpon the yeare 1373. ••hich was the 47. of his raigne (long after the ma∣king of these Statutes) he sent againe to Gregory the 11. to intreat his consent, and good will to the same.

Rex Edwardus (saith Wal∣singham) eodem anno misit Ambassiatores ad Dominum Papam, rogaus c••m, &c.

The same yeare K. Edward sent Embassadours to the Pope, praying him, that he would be content to surcease from prouiding benefices in England, & that Clerks might enioy their rights to Ecclesiasticall dignities by elections, as in old time they were accustomed. So as heere we see, * 1.10 that the King pretended right by ancient custome, in these affaires: Neither did this Pope altogeather deny it.

For VValsingham addeth: super quibus articulis nuncij à Papa certa recepêre responsa, &c. vpon which articles the Kings messengers receiued from the Pope certaine answers, of which they should informe him at their returne, & that nothing should be determined, vntill the King had written againe his mind more fully vnto the said Pope. And then in the next yeare after he saith, as before you haue heard, that the Pope, and the King were agreed vpon these, and like points.

38. And if this were so at this time, then may it be presumed also, that before vpon the 25. yeare of his raigne, when he first made those Statutes of restraint, he had also some secret consent, or conniuency of Pope Clement the 6. or Innocentius the 6. that im∣mediately ensued him, to the same effect: at least wise, for the ceasing of prouisions and reseruations, except only vpon great and weighty causes, (for in such cases we find, that they were vsed also afterward) and that ambitious, busie, and troublesome people, that should deceitfully procure such prouisions, or rashly and vniustly appeale, or molest men with Citations, Censures, and the like, should be punished. * 1.11 And this was a thing so needful oftentymes, as S. Bernard himself, that liued vnder King Henry the first, and writing to Pope Eugenius, that had byn his scholler, of the great abuses of troublesome appellatiōs in his dayes, wisheth

him, as on the one side to admit all due appellations, which of right were made vnto him, and to his tribunall, from all partes of the world; so on the other side, to punish them that made them vniustly.

39. All which being considered, togeather with the time be∣fore noted, wherin K. Edward made these restraints, to wit, when he had great warrs in France for challenge of the Crowne, and no small iealousie with the Popes, Cardinals, and Roman Court, as being all, or the most parte French at that day, and residing in Auinion in France; the continuall clamours also of his people, much exaspered by certaine particular abuses, and excesses of some Ec∣clesiasticall officers: * 1.12 the maruaile is not so great, if he tooke some such resolution, as this de facto, at least for satisfying especially of the laity, who were most instant in the matter; Yea & by whom only, it seemeth to haue byn done. For that in none of these Sta∣tutes is mentioned expressly the consent of the Lords spirituall; but of the King, and Great men (Magnatum in Latin) and of the Commu∣nalty, which is repeated in euery of the forsaid Statutes, except one, where is said. The King by the assent, and expresse will, and concord of the Dukes, Earles, Barrons, and the Commons of this Realme did deter∣mine, &c not mencioning at al the Bishops, Archbishops, Abbots, and other Ecclesiasticall Prelates, that had right of suffrage in those Parlaments; and consequently, how far this probation de facto doth proue also de Iure, I leaue to the Reader to consider.

40. Only we conclude, that howsoeuer this was, either by right or wrong, for the manner of determining; certaine it is, that King Edward did not therby diminish any way his opinion, or iudgment of the Popes spirituall authority: * 1.13 as may appeare by al his other actions writings to the same Sea afterwards, and of his respectiue carriage and behauiour, not only towards the Popes, but to his owne Clergy also in England, in all matters belonging to their superiority Ecclesiasticall. In proofe wherof, vpon the very selfsame 25. yeare of his raigne, wherin the former Statutes of restraint were decreed against such of his subiects as should offend therein; he made another Statute intituled. A con∣firmation of all libertyes, graunted the Clergy. * 1.14 And after ward vpon the 31. yeare, another Statute intituled. A confirmation of the great Charter, and of the Charter of the Forrest. Which great Charter con∣taining the priuiledges, * 1.15 libertyes, and superiority of the Church, is confirmed by him againe in the 42. yeare of his raigne, by a

particular Statute. And finally vpon the 50. yeare, which was the last before he died, he made another Statute intituled thus. ••he libertyes of the Church confirmed. So as all the former restraints, were pretended for particular cases only, mixt with temporal∣tyes, and for remedy of some excesses and inconueniences, without detraction of any thinge from the acknowledged su∣preme power of the Pope and Sea Apostolicke, in meere spiri∣tuall matters.

41. And how far then, is all this that is alleadged here by M. Attorney, from prouing that K. Edward the 3. did hold himself for supreme head of the Church, euen in spirituall and Ecclesiasticall matters? Or that his restraints before made in the cases set downe, might bee a president, or warrant, either de facto, or de iure to Q. Elizabeth, to K. Henrie the 8. or K. Edward that followed him, to denie wholy the Popes authoritie, and take it to themselues? And so much of this K. Edward the 3. whose religion & iudgmēt, though it were euer Catholicke, as hath been said; yet was his life and actions manie times disordinate and violent, * 1.16 as of a souldiar & warrier; and this not onlie against the liberties of the Church, but against the precepts of good life and gouernmēt also. The first appeareth by a longe reprehension written vnto him, with threatning likewise of excommunication from Iohn Stratford Archbishop of Canterburie, vpon the yeare 1340. wherin he doth sett downe the manie greiuances, * 1.17 which he did laie vpon the Church vniustlie. And for the second, it maie bee vnderstood, as wel by the same narration of the foresaid Archbishop, wherin he said to the king, admonishing him of his fathers miserable end: Ferè corda populo terra amisistis. You haue almost lost the hearts of all the people of the land. As also the same is euidēt by the generall testimonie of our historiographers, who make the later parte of his raigne to haue been very much disordered, & thereby also vnfortunate & miserable, as maie appeer by these words of VValsingham, who hauing much commended other graces in him, saith:

Luxus tamē & motus suae carnis lubricos, etiam in aetate senili non cohibuit, &c.

he did not euen in his old age, restraine the luxurious and fraile motiōs of his owne flesh; being much allured hereunto, as is said; by the incitation of a certaine dishonest woman, named Alice Pierce, that was with him vnto the end of his life, and was cause of haste∣ning the same. And it is greatlie to bee noted, as in the former parte of his raigne, all things went prosperously with him; so

towards the later end in his old age, through the demerit of his synnes, all fell out contrarie, &c.

Notes

• * 1.1

  The An∣svvere.
• * 1.2

  Some things may belōg to differēt courtes in different respects.
• * 1.3

  Supra in 〈◊〉〈◊〉. ••.
• * 1.4

  VVhy the Abbot of VValtam vvas seue∣rely pu∣nished.
• * 1.5

  The ••. In∣stance.
• * 1.6

  The sum∣me of the first re∣straint a∣bout Pro∣uisions.
• * 1.7

  Stat. 25. E. 3. de proui∣soribus.
• * 1.8

  The An∣svvere.
• * 1.9

  Agreemēt betvvene the King and Pope about prouisiōs.
• * 1.10

  VValsing. in vita 〈◊〉〈◊〉. an. 1371.
• * 1.11

  See S. Ber∣nard a•• 〈◊〉〈◊〉, ••l. 2. de Conside∣racione ad Eugeni••••.
• * 1.12

  Of the reasons & manner of cōcluding these re∣straints by K. E. the 3.
• * 1.13

  King Ed∣vvards re∣straints diminis∣hed not his devv respect to the church
• * 1.14

  An. 2••. E. 3. ••tat. 3. Stat. ••. cap. 1.
• * 1.15

  42. E. 3. ••. 1.
• * 1.16

  The disor∣dinate life of K. Edvvard the third.
• * 1.17

  VValsing. in vita E∣douardi 3. an. 1340.