A dyaloge of syr Thomas More knyghte: one of the counsayll of oure souerayne lorde the kyng [and] chauncellour of hys duchy of Lancaster. Wherin be treated dyuers maters, as of the veneration [and] worshyp of ymages [and] relyques, prayng to sayntys, [and] goyng o[n] pylgrymage. Wyth many othere thyngys touching the pestylent sect of Luther and Tyndale, by the tone bygone in Sarony, and by tother laboryed to be brought in to Englond

¶The .vi. chapyter.

¶The mes••enger moueth / y^• syth the chyrche is this knowē multytude of good men & badde to gether / of whō no man knoweth whych be the tone sort & which be the tother / y^t yt may be peradueutnre y^t the good sort of the chyrch be they that byleue y^e wor¦••hyp of ymages to be ydolatry / and the bad sort they y^t byleue y^• cōtrary. Whyche obieccyon the author dooth ans••••re and confute.

WHan I had sayd. ¶Syr q he ye haue in good faythfully sa∣tysfyed me cōcernyng y^• sure & vn••••wted knowlege of y^e very chyrch here ī erth. But yet thynketh me y^e one lytell dowt remayneth for our pryncy¦pall mater. ¶What is y^• q I. ¶Mary ••yr q he yt is thys / y^t though the very fayth be in the chyrch / & the chyrch can not erre therin / nor y^e chyrch cā not be deceyued agaynst y^e fayth in eny texte of scryptur / nor no scrypture is there y^t beyng well vnderstāden doth or cā do stande agaynst y^e fayth of y^e chyrch / & y^t also the chyrch is none other but as ye say and as I se yt is in dede / but thys hole comen congregacyō of trysten peo¦ple good and badde / not seperatynge theym self fro frowardnes / nor beyng put ••••t for theyr obstynate fawt{is} / yet

syth yt appereth well that though the ryght fayth be in y^e chyrch / yt is not in euery man of the chyrch. And though y^e chyrche can not erre in such thyng{is} / yet som of y^e chyrch may. Now s••meth yt to some men that yt may well per∣aduenture happen / that the good men well beleuyng & vndeceyued / be those that beleue the worshyp of ymages & prayng to sayntes to be ydolatry. And on y^e tother syde / that those whythe by¦leue y^e cōtrary be that parte of y^e chyrch that be the naughty mē / mysbyleuers & foule deceyued. ¶That were a very straung werke quod I. ye wold ryght now quod I / that in y^e chyrch we shold ••hynk that there were none other but good mē. Wyll ye now agre that there be therin som good men? ¶ye quod be that must ned{is} be. ¶Well quod I why ther be they good men that do nought? ¶Nay quod he. ¶Do they well q I that do ydolatry in dede though yt be agaynst theyr hartes. ¶Nay quod he. ¶But all quod I come to chyrch and worshyp ymagys / & all pray to saynt{is}. Wherfore yf that be ydolatry / then y^e chyrch of Cryst is all nought. For thus do they that be of y^e contrary syde / for fere of beynge perceyued. Also yf one do well or preche well is •••• a good mā yf he deny yt for fere? ¶Nay quod he. ¶But now q I all y^• are of that sorte yf they happen to aduēture sōwhat & be spyed / they wyl fyrst {per}iure thē self / and after abiure theyr opynyon so y^t yf theyr opynyō were good / yet were thē selfe nought. ¶But yet q he yf theyr opynyons be good / than be not they so euyl in hydīg theyr entētys for fere / as they that agaynst theyr trew opyniōs do and preche openly and p••rsue theym ••or sayng trouth. As som that faynted and fled fromartyrdome / were not so euyll as they that pursued them. ¶Ue¦ry trouth quod I yf these mennys opy∣nyos were trew. But yet though they were trew / yet were these mē nought. ¶And y^e tother worse quod he. ¶That is well sayd quod I. But they and the tother be y^e hole chyrche. And yf yours be nought as ye graunt and must ned{is} graūt they be / yf y^e tother w••re nought to / thā were in the chyrche ••one good But your self deny not but in y^e chyrch yt must ned{is} be / y^t there be some good. And there can be none but eyther your parte or y^e tother. Ergo sythe yours be nought those y^t be good must ned{is} be y^e tother. But none of those y^t be of y^e to¦ther could be good mē yf they were ydo¦laters & {per}sued your parte for saynge y^e trouth / & cōpelled thē to deny y^e trouth / ergo y^e tother {per}te be not ydolaters / nor y^e opynyō of your {per}te for whyche they {per}sue your {per}te be not trew. And thus it appereth as me seme / that good mē of y^e chyrch be agaynst you / & the nough∣ty wyth you.