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I Can not in good faythe good Uncle saye naye to none of thys, and in dede vnto them that (by the Turkes ouer runninge
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of y• countrey) were happed to be spoiled & robbed, & al theyr substaunce mouable & vnmouable, berefte & loste alreadye, theyr persones onely fled and safe: I thinke that these consideracions cōsidered therwith, that as you lately sayde, theyr sorowe coulde not a∣mend theyr chaunce, I mighte vnto thē be good occa∣sion of cōfort, & cause them as you sayde make a ver∣tue of necessitie: but in the case Uncle that we nowe speake of, y• is to wete, where they haue yet theyr sub∣staūce vntouched in theyr own hādes, & that y• keping or ye losing shal hang both in ther owne hādes by the Turkes offer vpō the retaining or ye renouncing of ye christē faith, here vncle I find it as you said y• this tēp∣taciō is most sore & moste perilous. For I feare me y• we shal finde fewe of such as haue muche to lese, that shal find in theyr heartes so sodainely to forsake theyr goodes wyth all those other thynges afore rehearsed. wherupon all theyr worldely wealth dependeth.
That feare I much Cosin too, but therby shal it wel as I sayed appeare, yt semed they neuer so good & verteous before, & flattered they thē selfe wt neuer so gay a glose of good & gracious purpose y• they kept theyr goodes for, yet were theyr heartes inwardly in y• depe sighte of god, not sounde & sure, suche as they shoulde be, & as peraduenture some had thē self, went they had be but like a pursering of paris, holowe, light & counterfaite in dede. And yet they being such, thys would I faine aske one of thē & I pray, you Cosin take you hys persō vpon you, and in this case answere for him. What letteth, would I aske you (for we will take no smal mā for a sāple in this part, nor him yt had little to leese, for such one were me thinke so farre from al frame, that woulde cast awaye GOD for a lytle, that he were not worthye to talke wyth:) what letteth I
saye therfore your Lordeshyp, that you be not gladlye content without any d••lib••ra••ion at all in this kind of persecucion, rather t••en to leaue your fayth, to let goe al that euer you haue at onc••.
Syth ••ou putte it vncle vnto me to make the matt••r more playne, that I shoulde play ye great mans parte that is so wealthye, and hath so muche to lose, al∣beit I cannot be verye sure of an oth••r mans mynde, nor what another manne woulde saye, yet as farre as mine owne mynde can coniecture, I shal aunswere in hys person what I wene would be his lette. And ••her∣fore to your question I aunswere, that there letteth me the thing that your selfe may lightlye gesse, the losing of the manifold commodities which I now haue: Ryt∣ches and substaunce, landes and greate possessions of enheritaunce, with great rule and autoritie here in my countrey: all whiche thinges the great Turke graun∣teth me to kepe still in peace, and haue them enhaun∣ced too, so that I will forsake the fayth of Christ: Yea, I may saye to you, I haue a mocion secretly made me far••her, to kepe all thys yet better cheape, yt is to wete, not be compelled vtterly to forsake Christe, nor all the whole christē fayth, but onely some such partes therof, as may not stand with Machomets law, & onely graū∣ting Machomet for a true prophet, & serning ye Turke truely in his warres againste all christen Kinges, I shal not be letted to prayse Christ also, and to cal him a good man, and worship him and serue him too.
Naye naye my lorde, Christe hath not so greate nede of your lordeship, as rather then to lese your ser∣uice, he woulde fall at such couenauntes with you, to take your seruice at halfes to serue hym and hys ene∣my both: he hath geuen you playn warnyng already
by. S. Paul, that he will haue in your seruice no par∣ting felowe. Que societas lucis ad tenebras•• Christi ad Belial? what fe∣lowship is there betwene lighte & da••kenes? betwene Christ & Belial? And he hath also plainlye shewed you himselfe by his own mouth: Nemo potest doubus domini•• seru••re. No mā may serue two lordes at once. He wil haue you beleue al yt he telleth you, & doe al that he biddeth you, & ••orbeare al that he forbiddeth you without any maner excepcion. Breake one of his cōmaundementes, and breake al. Forsake one poynt of his faith, & forsake all, as for any thanke you geat for ye remnaunt. And ther∣fore if you deuise as it wer Indentures betwene god & you, what thing you wil doe for him, & what thing you will not doe, as though he should hold him contēt with such seruice of yours as your selflu••t to appoint him: If you make I say, suche Indentures, you shall seale both ye partes your selfe, & you geat therto no agremēt of him. And ••his I saye: though ye Turke would make such an appointmēt with you as you speake of, & would when he had made it kepe it, whereas he woulde not I warraunt you leaue you so, whan he had once brought you so farre foorth, but woulde litle and litle after ere he left you, make you denie Christ altogether and take Machomette in his ••lede. And so doth he in the begin∣ning when he wil not haue beleue him to be God. For surely if he wer not god, he wer no good man nei∣ther, while he plainly said he was god. But though he would neuer goe so farre furth with you, yet Chri••t wil (as I sayde) not take youre seruice to halfes, but will that you shal loue him with all your whole heart. And because that whyle he was liuyng here fiftene hun∣dreth yere agoe•• he for••sawe this mynd of youres that you haue nowe, with whiche you woulde fayne serue
hym in some suche fashion as you myghte keepe youre ••orldely substaunce still, but rather forsake his seruice ••hen putte all youre substaunce from you: he telleth ••••u playne .xv hundreth yere agoe his owne mouthe, that he will no suche seruice of you, saying: Non pote••tis d••o seruire et Mammone. You cannot serue bothe God and your richesse together. And therefore this thing stablished for a playne conclusion, which you must nedes graunt if you haue faythe. And if you bee gone from that grounde of faythe alreadye: than is al your dysputaci∣on you wotte well, at an ende. For whereto shoulde you than rather leese your goodes, then forsake youre faythe, if you haue lost youre fayth and lette it goe al∣readye? This poynte I saye therefore, putte fyrst for a grounde betweene vs bothe twayne agrred, that you haue yet the faythe styll, and entende to keepe it alwaye styll in youre hearte, and are but in doubte whe••her you will leese all youre worldely substaunce, rather than forsake your faith in youre onely woorde. Nowe shall I replye to the poynte of your aunswere, wherin you tell me the lothnes of ye losse, and the com∣fort of kepyng letteth you to forgoe them, and moueth you rather to forsake your fayth. I let passe all that I haue spoken of the smal commoditie of thē vnto your body, & of the great harme that the hauing of them doe to your soule. And sith the promise of the Turke, made vnto you for the kepynge of them, is the thinge that mou••••h you and maketh you thus to doubte, I aske you first whereby you wotte, ••hat when you haue done all that he will haue you dooe agaynste Chryste to the harme of your soule, whereby wote you I say, that he wyll keepe yo•• his promyse in these thynges that he promyseth you, concernynge the retaynynge
of your welbeloued worldly welth for the pleasure of your bodye.
What suretie can a man haue of suche a great Prince but his promise? whiche for his owne ho∣nor it cannot become him to breake.
I haue knowen him, and his father before him, to breake moe promises than .v. as greate as this is yt he shoulde here make with you. Who shall come and cast it in his teeth, and tel hym it is a shame for him to be so fickle and so false of his promise? And then what careth he for those wordes that he wotteth wel he shal neuer heare? not very muche although they were told hym too. If you myghte come after and complayne your griefe vnto his own person your self, you should fynde hym as shamefast as a frende of myne a mar∣chant, found once the Soudan of Syrry, to whome (being certayne yeres about his marchandise in that countrey) he gaue a great summe of money for a cer∣taine office mete for him there for the while, whiche he scant had him graunted and put in his hande, but y• or euer it wer ought woorth vnto him, the Sowdan so∣dainly sold it to another of his own secte, and put oure hungarien out. Thā came he to him & humbly put him in remembraunce of his graūt passed his own mouth, and signed with his own hand: whereunto the Sow∣dan answered him with a grimme countenaunce. I wil thou wit it losell, yt nether my mouth nor my hand shal be master ouer me, to bind al my body at their plesure: but I wil so be lord and maister ouer them bothe, that whatsoeuer the one saie, or the other write, I wil be at my owne libertie, to do what me lust my self, and aske them both no leaue: wene you nowe my lorde yt Sow∣dan & this Turke, being both of one false sect, you may
not fynde them both, lyke false of their promyse.
That must I nedes ieoparde, for other sure∣••y can there none be had.
An vnwise ieoparding to put youre soule in perill of dānacion, for the kepyng of your bodely plea∣sures, and yet without suerty therof must ieoparde thē too: but yet goe a litle farther loe, suppose me that ye mighte be very sure that the Turke would breake no promyse with you, are you than sure inough to retayne all your substaunce styll?
Ye than.
What if a man shoulde aske you how long?
Howe long? as long as I lyue.
Wel, let it be so thā: but yet as farre as I can see, though the great Turke fauour you neuer so much and let you kepe your goodes as long as euer you liue: yet if it hap that you bee at thys daye fiftie yere olde, all the fauour that he can shewe you, can not make you one day younger to morowe, but euery daye shall you waxe elder than other: and then within a whyle, must you for all hys fauour lese all.
Wel, a man would be glad for all that to be sure not to lacke whyle he lyueth.
Wel, thā if the greate Turke geue you your good, can there than in all your lyfe no other take them from you againe?
Uerely I suppose no.
Maye he not lese thys countreye agayne vnto chrysten mē, & you with the takyng of thys way, fal in yesame perel than that you would nowe eschewe?
Forsoth I thinke that if he geat it once, he wyl neuer lese it agayne in our dayes.
Yes by gods grace, but yet if he lese it after
your dayes, there goeth your childrens enheritaunce awa•• agayn. But be it now that he could neuer lese it•• could none take your substaunce from you than?
No in good fayth none.
No? none at all? not god?
God? what? yes perdy, who doubteth of that?
Who? mary he yt doubteth whyther there be any god or no: and that there lacketh not some such, the Prophet testifieth where he sayth. Dixit insipiens in corde suo non est deus. The foole hath sayd in his hearte there is no god. With the mouth the most folish wil forbeare to say it vnto other folke, but in the heart they let not to saye it softely, to themselfe•• and I feare me there be manye moe suche fooles than euery man would wene there were, and would not let to saye it openly to, if they for∣bare it not more for dreade of shame of men, than for any feare of god. But now those that are so frantike foolishe, as to wene there were no god, and yet in their wordes confesse hym, though that (as. S. Paul sayeth: in their dedes they denie him. We shal let hym passe til it please god to shewe hym selfe vnto them, eyther in∣wardly betyme, by his merciful grace, or els outwardly (but ouer late for them) by his terrible iudgement. But vnto you my lorde, syth you beleue and confesse (like as a wyse man should) that though the Turke kepe you promyse in letting you kepe your substaunce, because you doe hym pleasure in the forsakyng of your fayth: yet God (whose fayth you forsake, and therin dooe hym displeasure) ••ay so take them from you•• that the great Turke with all the power he hath•• is not able to keepe you, thē why wil you be so vnwise with the losse of your soule to please the greate Turke for youre goodes, whyle you wote well that god whom you displease ther∣with,
may take them frō you too: besides this sith you beleue there is a god, you cannot but beleue therwith∣that the great Turke cannot take your good from you without his wil or sufferaunce, nomore than the d••uill could fro Iob. And thinke you thā that if he wil suffre the Turke take away your good, albeit that by the ke∣ping and confessing of his faith you please him: he will when you displease him by forsaking his fayth, suffre you of those goodes that you geat or kepe, therby to re∣ioyse and enioy any benefite.
God is gracious, and though that mē offend him, yet he suffereth them many tymes to lyue in pro∣speritie long after.
Long after? naye by my trouth my lord that doth he no man: for how can that be that he should suf∣fre you lyue in prosperitie long after, when your whole life is but shorte in all together, and either almost halfe therof or more than halfe (you thynke your selfe I dare say) spent out already before? can you burne oute half a short candle, and than haue a long one left of the rem∣naunt? there cannot in this world be a worse mind, thā that a man to delight and take comfort in any commo∣ditie that he taketh by synnefull meane: for it is ye very straight way toward ye taking of boldnes and courage in sinne, and finally to fall into infidelitie and thinke, that god car••th not, nor regardeth not what thing mē do heare, nor what mind we be of: but vnto such minded folke speaketh holy scripture in this wise, Noli dicere pecca∣ui, et nihil mihi accidit tr••••te, patiens enim redditor est dominus. Saye not I haue sinned, & yet hath there happed me no harme: for god suffreth before he strike. But as. S. Austē saith: The longer yt he tarieth or he strike, the sorer is y• stroke whē he striketh: & therfore if yo•• wil well do, rekē your
selfe very sure, yt when you deadly displease god, for the geatting or ye keping of your goodes, god shal not suf∣fer those goodes to doe you good, but either shal he take them shortly from you, or suffer you to kepe them for a litle whyle to your more harme: and after shal he whē you least loke therefore, take you away from them, and than what an heape of heauines wyl there enter into your heart, when you shall see yt you shal sodainly so go frō your goodes and leaue them here in ye earth in one place, and that your body shalbe put in the earth in an other place: and (which thā shalbe most heauines of al) when you shal feare (and not without great cause) that youre soule shall firste forthwith, and after that, at the fynal iudgement, your body to be driuē down depe to∣warde the centry of ye earth into the fiery pitte & dō∣geon of the deuil of hell, there to tary in torment world without ende? What goodes of this world can any mā imagine wherof the pleasure and commoditie could be such in a thousande yeare, as were able to recompence that intollerable payn, yt there is to be suffered in one yeare, or in one day, or one howre either: yea & thē what a madnes is it, for that poore pleasure of youre worldly goodes of so few yeares, to cast your self both body and soule into ye euerlasting fier of hel, wherof there is not minished the moūtenaunce of a moment by the lying there the space of an hundreth thousande yeares. And therfore our sauiour in fewe wordes concluded & confu∣ted al these folyes of them, that for the short vse of this worldly substaunce forsake him and his fayth, and sell their soules vnto the deuill for euer, where he sayeth: Quid prodest homini sivniuersum mundum lucretur, anime vero•• sue detrimen∣tum patiatur? what auaileth it a mā if he wanne all ye whole world, & lost hys soule? This were me thynketh cause & occasion inough, to him that had neuer so much part of
this world in his hand, to be content rather to lese it al, than for the retaynyng or encreasyng of hys worldly goodes to leese and destroye hys soule.
This is good vncle in good fayth very true, and what other thing any of them (that would not for this bee contente) haue for to alledge in reason for the de∣fence of their folye, that can I not ymagine, nor lust in this matter to play their parte no longre. But I pray God geue me the grace to playe the contrary parte in dede, and that I neuer for anye goodes or substaunce of this wretched world, forsake my fayth toward God, nether in heart ••or tong, as I trust in his great good∣nes I neuer shall.