A dialoge of comfort against tribulacion, made by Syr Thomas More Knyght, and set foorth by the name of an Hu[n]garie[n], not before this time imprinted

The .vi. Chapter. An ••bieccion of them that saye that tribulacion of penaunc•• nedeth not, but is a supersticious foly.

Vincent.

FOrsoth vncle in this point me thinketh you saye verye wel. But than are there some a∣gayne that saye on the other side, that hea∣uines of our sinnes we shal nede none at al, but onely chaunge our purpose and intent to doe bet∣ter, and for that which is passed take no thought at al. And as for fasting or other afflyccion of the body, they saye we should not doe it, but onely to tame the fleshe whan we fele it waxe wan••on, and begin to rebel: for fasting they say, serueth to kepe the body in a tempe∣raūce, but for to faste for penaunce, or to doe any other good worke, almose dede and other, toward satisfacciō of our owne sinne, this thing they call playne iniurye to the passion of Christ, by which onely are our sinnes forgeuen frely without any recompence of our owne. And they that woulde dooe penaunce for theyr owne sinnes, looke to be theyr own Christes, and paye theyr owne raunsomes, & saue theyr soules them selfe. And with these reasons in Saxoni, many cast fasting of, & al other bodilye afflyccion, saue onely where nede re∣quireth

to bringe the bodye to temperance. For o∣ther good they say can it none doe to our selfe, & then to our neighboure can it doe none at all, & therefore they condemne it for supersticious foly: now heauines of heart & wepīg for our sinnes, this they reckon shame almost and womanyshe peuishnes, howebeit, thanked be God, theyr women waxe there nowe so mannyshe, that they be not so peuishe nor so pore of sprite, but that they can sinne on as men doe, and be neyther afrayde nor ashamed, nor wepe for theyr sinnes at al. And suer∣lye myne vncle, I haue merueled much the lesse euer since that I heard the maner of theyr preachers ••here. For as you remembre when I was in Saxoni, these matters were in a maner but in a māmering•• nor Lu∣ther was not than wedde yet, nor religious men oute of theyr habyte, but suffered where those that woulde be of the secte frely to preache what they would vnto the people. And forsoth I heard a religious mā there my self, one that had been reputed and taken for very good, and which, as farre as y^e folke perceyued, was of hys owne liuing somewhat auster and sharpe, but his preaching was wonderful, me thinke I heare him yet: his voice was loude and shryll, his learning lesse thā meane: but where as his matter was muche parte a∣gainst fasting & al afflyccion for any penaunce which he called mennes inuencions, he cryed euer out vpon them to kepe well the lawes of Christe, let goe theyr pieuishe penaunce, & purpose thē to mend and seke no∣thing to saluacion but the death of Christ, for he is our iustyce, and he is our sauior & our whole satisfaccion for all our deadlye sinnes, he did ful penaunce for vs all vpon his paynefull crosse, he washed vs there all cleane wyth the water of his swete syde, and boughte

vs out of the deuils daunger with hys deare precious bloud. Leaue therfore, leaue I beseche you these inuē∣cions of men, your foolishe lenton fastes and your pe∣uishe penaunce, minyshe neuer Christes thanke, nor looke ••o saue your selfe, it is Christes death I tell you that must saue vs al: Chrystes deathe I tell you ye•• againe and not our own dedes: leaue your own fas∣ting therefore, & leane to Christ alone good christē peo∣ple for Christes deare bitter passion. Nowe so loude & so shryll he cried Christ in their eares, and so thicke he came forth wyth Christes bytter Passion, and that so bytterly spoken wyth the sweate dropping downe hys chekes, that I merueiled not though I sawe the poore women wepe, for he made my owne heere to stand vp vpon my headde, and wyth suche preaching were the people so brought in, that some fel to breake their fastes on y^e fasling dayes, not of frailetie or of malice first, but almost of deuocion, lest they should take from Chryste the thanke of his bytter passion. But when they were a whyle noseled in that poynte fyrst, they could abide & endure after many thynges moe, wyth whych had he than begonne, they woulde haue pulled him downe.

☞Antony.

Cosyn, GOD amende that mā what soe∣euer he be, and god kepe all good folke from suche ma∣ner of preachers: such one preacher muche more abu∣seth the name of Christe and his bitter Passion, than v. hūdreth hasardars that in theyr idle busines sweare and forsweare them selfe by his holye bitter passion at dice. They carye the myndes of the people from the perceiuing of theyr ••rafte, by the continuall namynge of the name of Christ and crying hys passion so shryll into theyr eares, they forgeat y^t the churche hath euer taught them that all our penaunce wythout Christes

Passion were not worth a pea••e, and they make the people wene y^t we would be saued by our own dedes without Christes death, where we cōfesse that his one∣ly passion meriteth incomparably more for vs, than al our owne dedes doe: but hys pleasure is, that we shall also take payne our owne selfe wyth him, and therfore he byddeth all that wyll be hys dyscyples take theyr crosses vpon theyr backes as he dyd, and wyth theyr crosses folowe hym: and where they saye that fasting serueth but for temperaunce to tame the fleshe, and kepe it from wantonnes, I would in good fayth haue wente that Moyses had not bene so wylde, that for the taminge of his fleshe he should haue nede to faste whole .xl. dayes together.

No nor Hely neyther, nor yet our sauiour hym selfe which beganne, and the Apostles folowed, and all chrystendome haue kept the lenton .xl. dayes fast, that these folke cal nowe so foolishe. King Achas was not dysposed to be wāton in his fleshe, when he fasted and wente clothed in sacke cloth & all besprent w^t asshes. Nor no more was in Niniue the king & al y^e Cytie, but they wayled & dyd payneful penaunce for theyr sinne to procure god to pitie thē & withdraw his indignaciō. Anna that in her wydowhed abode so many yeares with fasting and praying in the temple tyl ••he byrth of Christ•• was not I wene, in her olde age so sore disposed to y^e wantones of her fleshe y^t she fasted al therefore. Nor. S. Paul y^e fasted so much, fasted not all therfore neyther. The scripture is full of places that prouethe fasting not to be y^e inuencion of mā but y^e instituciō of god, & that it hath many moe profytes than one.

And that the fasting of one man maye dooe good to an other, our sauiour saieth hym selfe where he

sheweth that some kynde of diuelles can not be by one man caste out of an other Nisiin oratione & ieiunio, wythout prayer and fasting. And therfore I meruaile that they take this waye against fasting and other bodilye pe∣nance, and yet muche more I meruaile y^t they mislike the sorowe and he auines and displeasure of mynde y^t a man should take in forethinking of his synne. The Prophet sayth. Sindite corda vestra & non vestimenta. Teare your heartes (he sayeth) and not your clothes. And the Pro∣phet Dauyd sayeth. Cor contritum & hu••iliatum deus non despicies. A contrite heart and an humbled, that is to say, a heart broken, torne, and wyth tribulacion of heauines for his sinnes layed a lowe vnder foote, shalte thou not good Lord despyse. He sayeth also of hys owne contricion. Laboraui in gemitu meo lauabo per singulas noctes lecrum meum lacrimis meis stratum meum rigabo. I have laboured in my wailing, I shal euery nyght washe my bed with my teares, my couche wyl I water. But what should I nede in this matter to laye forth one place or twayne. The scripture is full of those places, by which it playnlye appereth that god looketh of duetie, not onely that we shoulde amende and be better in the time to come, but also be sorye, and wepe, and bewayle our sinnes cōmitted before, and all the olde holy Doctours be ful and whole of that mind that men must haue for theyr synnes, contricion and sorowe in heart.