A dialoge of comfort against tribulacion, made by Syr Thomas More Knyght, and set foorth by the name of an Hu[n]garie[n], not before this time imprinted
More, Thomas, Sir, Saint, 1478-1535.

¶The .xii. Chapter. A certaine obieccyon agaynst the thynges aforesayde.

Vincent.

VErely good vncle this lyketh me very well, but yet is there ye wote well some of these thynges nowe broughte in question, for as for any payne dewe fro our sinne to be minished in purgatorye by the paciente sufferaunce of oure tri∣bulacion here, there are ye wote well many that vt∣terlye denye that and affirme for a sure truth that there is no purgatorye at all. And than is if they saye true, the cause of that comfort gone, if the comfort that we shoulde take bee in vayne and nede not. They saye ye wote well also, that men merite nothyng at al, but God geueth all for faith alone, and that it were sinne and sacrilede to looke for rewarde in heauen eyther for oure pacience and glad sufferyng for Gods sake, or for any other good dede: and than is there gone if this be thus, the other cause of cure farther comforte too.

Antony.

Cosin, if some thinges were as they be not, thā should some thinges be as they shal not. I can not in dede say naye but that some men haue of late broughte vp some such opinions, and many moe than these be∣sydes, Page  [unnumbered] and haue spread them abrode: and albeit that it is a righte heauye thyng to see suche varyaun∣ces in oure beliefe rise and growe among oure selfe to the greate encoragyng of the common enemyes of vs all, whereby they haue oure fayth in derision, and catche hope to ouerwhelme vs all, yet doe there three thynges not a litle coumforte my mynde.

The first is, that in some communicacions had of late together, hath appeared good likelihode of some good agremente to growe together in one accorde of oure faith.

The seconde, that in the meane whyle tyll thys maye come to passe, contencyons, despicyons, wyth vn∣charitable behauioure, is prohybited and forbydden, in effecte vpon all partes: all suche partes I meane as fell before to fight for it.

The thirde is, that all Germany for all their dyuers opynions, yet as they agree together in profession of Christes name, so agree they nowe together in pre∣paracion of a common power, in defence of Christen∣dome agaynste oure common enemye the Turke, and I truste to GOD, that thys shall not onely helpe vs here to strength vs in thys warre, but also that as GOD hath caused them to agree together in the defence of hys name, so shall he graciouslye bryng them to agre together in the truth of his faith. Therfore wyll I lette GOD woorke and leaue of contencion: and nothyng shall I nowe saye, but that with whiche they that are themselfe of the contrary mynd, shall in reason haue no cause to bee discontented. For fyrste, as for purgatorye thoughe they thynke there be none, yet syth they denye not that all the corps of Chrystendome by so manye hundreth yeares haue Page  [unnumbered] belieued the contrarye: and among them all, the olde interpretours of Scrypture from the Apostles dayes downe to oure owne tyme, of whome they de∣ny not manye for holye Saynctes, that I dare not belieue these men againste all those. These men muste of their curtesye holde my poore feare excu∣sed, and I beeseche oure Lorde heartelye for them, that whan they departe out of this wretched worlde, they fynde no purgatorye at all, so GOD kepe them from hel. And as for the meryte of manne in hys good woorkes, neyther are they that denye it full agreed among themselfe, nor anye manne is there almoste of them all that sith they beganne to write, hath not somewhat chaunged and varied from hym∣selfe: and for the more parte are thus farre agreed wyth vs that lyke as we graunte them that no good woorke is oughte worthe to heauen warde withoute fayth, and that no good woorke of manne is rewarda∣ble in heauen of his own nature, but through the mere goodnes of god, that lust to set so high a price vpon so poore a thing: and that this price god setteth throughe Christes passion, and for that also that they be his own orkes with vs. For good workes to godwarde woor∣keth no man without god woorke with him: and as we graunte them also that no man maye be proude of his woorkes for his owne vnperfecte woorkyng, and for that in al that manne maye doe, he can doe god no good, but is a seruaunte vnprofitable, and dooeth but his bare duetye: As we I say graunt vnto them these thinges, so this one thyng or twayne doe they graunt vs agayne, that menne are bounde to woorke good workes if they haue tyme and power: and that whoso Page  [unnumbered] woorketh in true fayth moste, shall be moste rewarded. But than set thei therto, that al his rewardes shal be geuen hym for his fayth alone, and nothing for hys woorkes at all, beecause hys fayth is the thyng (they saye) that forceth him to worke well. Stryue wyll I not with them for this matter now, but yet this I trust to the greate goodnesse of God, that if the question hang on that narowe poynte, whyle Christe sayeth in the Scripture in so many places that menne shall in heauen be rewarded for theyr woorkes, he shall neuer suffer oure soules that are but meane witted menne, and can vnderstande his woordes, but as himself hath set them and as olde holye Sainctes hath construed them before, and as all christen people thys thousande yere haue beleued, to be damned for lacke of perceiuing suche a sharpe subtyle thyng: speciallye syth some men that haue right good wyttes and are besyde that right well learned too, can in no wyse perceyue for what cause or why these folke that fro good woorkes take awaye the rewarde, and geue the rewarde all whole to fayth alone: geue the rewarde to fayth rather than to charitye. For thys graunte they themselfe, that fayth serueth of nothyng, but yf she be companyed wyth her sister charitye. And then sayeth the Scrip∣ture too, Fides, spes, charitas, tria he, maior autem horum, est charitas. Of these three vertues, fayth, hope, and Chary∣tye, of all these three, the greateste is Charitie, and therefore as woorthye thanke as fayth. Howebeit as I sayde, I wyll not stryue therefore, nor in dede as oure matter standeth, I shall not greatelye nede. For yf they saye that he whyche suffereth tribulacion or martirdome for the faith, shal haue high Page  [unnumbered] rewarde, not for his woorke, but for his well working fayth: yet syth that they graunte that haue it he shal, the cause of hyghe coumforte in the thyrde kynde of trybulacion standeth, and that is you wote well the ef∣fect of all my purpose.

Vincent.

Uerely good vncle this is truelye drieuen and tryed vnto the vttermoste as it semeth me. And therfore I pray you procede at your pleasure.