The second parte of the co[n]futacion of Tyndals answere in whyche is also confuted the chyrche that Tyndale deuyseth. And the chyrche also that frere Barns deuyseth. Made by syr Thomas More knyght.

¶The .vii. boke. [ A] Here begynneth the .vii. boke in defence of the seconde reason, prouynge the knowen catholyke chyrche to be the very chyrche of Cryste. whyche seconde reason is, that we knowe not whyche is the scrypture, but by the knowen catholyke chyrche. (Book 7)

The defence of the seconde reason.

Tyndale.

AN other lyke blynde reason they haue, wherin is all theyr truste. As we come out of them and they not out [ B] of vs / so we receyue the scrypture of them and they not of vs. How knowe we that it is the scrypture of god and trewe, but bycause they teache vs so. How can we that byleue, excepte we fyrst byleue that they be the chyrche, and can not err•• in any thynge that partey∣neth vnto our soules helth. ••or yf a man tell me of a meruelouse thinge, wher¦of I can haue no nother knowlege then by hys mouth onely / how sholde I gy¦ue credence, excepte I byleued that the man were so honest that he coulde not lye or w••lde not lye. Wherfore we must byleue that they be the ryght chyr∣che that can not erre, or ellys we can byleue nought at all. Thys wyse reason is theyr shoteanker, and all theyr h••lde, theyr refuge to flyght, & chefe stone in theyr fundacyon, wheron they haue bylt all theyr lyes and all theyr mys¦chefe that they haue wrought this .viij. hundred yeres.

More. [ C]

THys reason good reader which Tindale wolde here so fayne answere and soyle, is the thynge wherwyth the kynge our souerayne lord as a most erudyte prince in hys moste famous boke of the asser∣cyon of the sacramentes, strayned Lu∣ther so sore, that hytherto neyther hym selfe nor any companyō of hys, durste euer onys attempte any answere therunto / tyll Tyndale now perceyuynge the kynges argument in that poynte, so stronge that euery man mych alloweth it and feleth it for inuincible, wareth for angre so starke madde at last / that he maketh his assayes and assautēs here therat / and leseth not

[ A] onely hys labour in the ende, but also by some of hys own argumentes, wherwyth he wolde impugne it, maketh it ra¦ther more stronge, and proueth it playne inexpugnable.

But Tyndale all be it that he reherse the reason ••n such wyse hym selfe, that he soyleth it not afterwarde so surely as he reherseth it / nor neuer were lyke why••e he lyueth, all though the reason had no more then he reherseth: yet doth the kynges grace agaynste Luther besydes all thys that Tyndale reherseth, put an other pyece or twayne of pytthe and strength therin.

For where as in the tyme of holy saynt Austayne, suche heretykes as then were, played as these do now, denyenge the comon knowen catholyke chyrche to be the very chyr∣che of god, and the doctryne therof to be trewe: that bles∣sed [ B] doctour amonge many other thynges wyth whyche he playnely confuted that folysshe heresye•• sayed and affermed playnely that hym self sholde not haue byleued the gospell, but yf the authoryte of the catholyke chyrche compelled hym therunto.

Thys sayenge of saynt Austayne Luther hym selfe al∣loweth. For though he wyll in no wyse agree, that the hole catholyke chyrch gathered to gyther in a generall coūsayl, hath any authoryte or powre to make any lawes at all: yet he graunteth that the certaynty by which we knowe and be put in suretye, whyche is the very scrypture of god, and whyche not, a man hath hys lernyng and teachyng of that poynte by the chyrche of god, for the chyrche hath sayth Lu¦ther accordynge to the sayenge of Austayne, thys thynge [ C] geuen it of god, that it can iudge and dyscerne the wordes of god from the wordes of men.

Then layed oure sayde souerayne lorde Luthers owne wordes agaynste Luthers owne heresyes, for the faythe of the catholyke chyrche, in dyuers places dyuers wayes. For syth Luther confessed that the chyrche hath that gyfte of god, that it can dyscerne the word of god from the word of man: it foloweth sayeth hys grace that those thynges whyche the chyrche sayeth, is the worde of god vnwryten and tradycyons of the apostles, (of whyche Luther wolde none byleue, bycause they were not wryten) be the very worde of god as well as those that be wryten.

And in that reason hys grace gaue Luther & Tyndale

and all theyr whole secte such a sure fall, that they shall ne∣uer [ A] well aryse and walke vp ryght whyle they lyue agayn. For as hys hyghnes layed vnto hym, syth Luther can not saye nay but that he must byleue the chyrch when it telleth hym that these thynges god caused hys apostles to wryte / wherfore must he not as mych byleue it, whē it telleth hym These thynges god caused hys apostles to tell and teche by mouth? Then layed his hyghnes vnto Luther ferther, his owne wordes agaynst hym selfe this wyse.

Luther hym selfe confesseth y^t god hath gyuen the chyr∣che that gyfte, that it can dyscerne the wordes of god from the wordes of men. And wherfore hath he giuen the chyrch that gyfte, but bycause he wyll not suffre hys chyrch to fall into such a perylous errour, as to take the wordes of men for y^e wordes of god / wherby men myght fall to some euyll [ B] opynyons as well in fayth as other vertuys. But so is it that by the errour of wronge takynge the sense of goddes wordes, men may fall into the lyke perell, & also to a great deale greater. For the wrytynge of man taken for the scryp¦ture of god, myghte eyther by some conuenyent coment de¦uysed vpon the trewth wryten in mennes hartes, or by the playne persuasyon & cōfessyon of our own ignoraūce, that the sentēce were not suffyciently perceyued & vnderstandē, myght I say be conteyned & kepte from doynge any great harme. But the scrypture of god taken as it is for hys own wordes, & then vnderstonden falsely / muste nedys caste the people into a very fals errour in stede of very trewe fayth.

Now theruppon it very well foloweth, that god neuer wyll permyt & suffre hys chyrche to fall in any dampnable [ C] errour thorow mysse vnderstādyng & wrong declaracyō of y^e scripture / for as mych as by the takyng in necessary poyn¦tes of fayth or vertue the false sentence for the trewe, must nedes growe mych more perell and harme, then by the ta∣kyng of mānys false wrytynge for y^• trew scripture of god.

By thys argument lo the kynges hyghnes vtterly con∣futed Luther vpon Luthers owne wordes / & proued hym that he may neuer say nay for shame, but that in all necessa¦ry poyntes the very trew sense and e••posycyon of the scryp¦ture, is in the chyrche & the holy doctours therof. whose ex∣posycyōs as by theyr bokes appereth, openly reproue such exposycyons therof, as all these heretykes haue deuysed for the mayntenaunce of theyr heresyes.

[ A] Then layed hys hyghnesse vnto Luther hys owne wor∣des afore sayd yet agayn in thys wyse.

Syth god hath as Luther confesseth gyuen the chyrch that gyfte, that it dyscerneth the wordes of god frome the wordes of man / Luther well sheweth hym selfe such as he is, whyle he calleth the pystle of saynt Iamys the worde of man, whyche the chyrch hath so longe dyscerned and iud∣ged for the worde of god.

Fynally the selfe same wordes of Luther as the kynges hyghnes handeleth them, fully do conclude Luther & Tyn¦dale both, in prouyng the knowen catholyke chyrche to be the very chyrche / whyche is now as ye knowe well, all our whole mater.

[ B] For syth saynt Austayne sayth and Luther also confes∣seth, that the chyrch hath thys gyfte of god, that it dyscer∣neth the very scrypture of god from the wrytynge of man / and in those wordes, both saynt Austayn and Luther both spake of the knowen catholyke chyrche, and not of an vn∣knowen chyrch: yt appereth playne that both saynt Au∣stayne and Luther afferme, confesse, & agre, that the knowē catholyke chyrch is the very chyrch / and not that any chyr∣che of heretykes is the chyrche / for to none of them god ne∣uer gaue that gyfte of dyscresyon. For no man euer toke the scrypture bycause any of them sayd so / but all they as they haue comen out of the catholyke chyrch, so haue of the catholyke chyrche receyued the scrypture / and vppon the credence of that chyrche, haue they all byleued it / as Tyn∣dale [ C] can not denye, though these newe heretykes be nowe for defence of theyr heresyes, fayne to forsake some part of the scrypture to.

Now good chrysten readers, consyder well I requyre you these effectuall poyntes, whych our souerayn lorde so substancyally layed vnto Luther vpon hys owne wordes / and I dowte not but your selfe shall easyly perceyue & se, that the same thynges shall stande stronge and sure / & ouer that answere and ouerthrowe all the substaunce of Tyn∣dals solucyon here. whose wordes lette vs now loke on a∣gayne and examyne.

Tyndale.

Thys wyse reason is theyr shote ancre and all theyr whole refuge, and chyefe stone in theyr fundacyon / wheruppon they haue bylte all theyr lyes, and all theyr myschyefe that they haue wrought these .viij. hundred yeres.

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More. [ A]

Thys reason Tyndale here maketh very lyght, & sayth that these .viii. hadred yere the catholyke chyrche hath byel¦ded so many lyes and so myche myschyefe thereon / by all whych tyme of viii. hundred yeres, yf the whole catholyke chyrch haue ben in errours and heresyes as Tyndale here sayth and his mayster Martyne Luther byfore hym, then hath Chryste broken all hys promyses, by whyche he pro∣mysed to be wyth his chyrche all days to the worldes ende.

For by all this .viii. hundred yeres hath Cryste hadde none other chyrche contynuynge that any man can tell of / but yf Tyndale wyll saye yes / and when he can neither tell whyche nor where, wyll yet say styll yes, and nothyng but yes, and loke that we sholde agaynst our owne experyence vppon his bare worde byleue hym, bycause he sayth styll [ B] yes / wyth as myche profe in his yes, as a gose hath in her hysse.

Tyndale seeth well also, as ye shal after perceyue though he dyssymyle yt now / that when he sayth this wyse reason is theyr shote ancre, this reason y^t he mokketh is not onely theyres whome he wolde seme to mokke, that is to wyt the catholyque chyrch of this, viii. yeres / in whych tyme haue ben men of suche holynes and vertue and now holy saynts in heuen, whose faythfull holy wrytynges condempne his faythlesse heresyes, that euery good man I dare saye wyll thynke them full vnmetely to be mokked and iested vppon by suche a folyshe felowe as this is / whyche whyle he set∣te••h so lytle by saynt Thomas, saynt Bonauenture, saynt Bernarde, saynte Anselme, and all such other men as haue [ C] wryten in the chyrche this .viii. hundred yere: he seeth yet well inough that the reason which he mokketh, was made by the holy doctour saynt Austayne foure or fyue hundred yere byfore that / and that the same holy man byelded ther∣uppon the selfe same byeldynge, that the catholyke chyrch repayreth and kepeth vppe nowe / and whyche byeldynge these heretykes wolde now pull downe / that is to say that god teacheth his chyrche the trouth,* 1.1 and ledeth yt into all trouth as he promysed, and wyll not suffre yt damnably to erre, and for that cause wyll not suffre yt to be dysceyued in mysse takynge of the very scrypture, nor consequently for the same cause for such myssetakyng of the ryght sense and vnderstand therof, wherby they sholde fall in any dam¦nable

[ A] errour thorow the false bylyef, in any maner poynte whereof god wolde haue theym to knowe and byleue the trouthe.

These are the thynges that holy saynte Austayne made that reason for, agaynste suche heretykes as Luther and Tyndale be now. whych other dyd then as these do now, la¦bour to make folke byleue that theyr chyrch of heretyques were the very chyrche, and the catholyque chyrche were a chyrche of heretykes. Agaynst those heretykes say I, and wyth them agaynste these heretyques to, dyd that holy do¦ctour saynte Austayn, not onely eyght hundred yere agoo, whyche were yet a lenger tyme by almoste halfe then euer hadde any secte of heretyques any contynuaunce yet / but [ B] lenger byfore eyght hundred yere then almost half .viii. C. agayne, make this inuyncyble reason whyche nowe thys worshyppefull wyld gose so comely scoffeth and scorneth / by whyche for all his goodly scoffynge at saynt Austaynes reason, he shall neuer whyle he lyueth auoydeyt, but that saynt Austayn hath by that reason alone, all though he ne¦uer had made mo / where as Tindale wel knoweth though he wolde haue yt seme nay, that saynt Austayne made for that purpose many mo / but though he neuer hadde I saye made mo for that purpose then that one: yet had y^t one a∣gaynst Martyne Luther and wyllyam Tyndale to, and a∣gaynste all the heretykes that euer haue ben, are nowe, or euer shall be herafter, well and clerely proued that theyr chyrche be all the many false, and onely the knowen catho∣lyque chyrche the very trew chyrche of Cryste.

[ C] And now syth this reason that Tyndale here setteth so lyght, was as hym selfe after cōfesseth, made by saynt Au∣stayne hym selfe so mayny hundred yere ago, and hath be•• well lyked and alowed of euery good wyse man synnes: let vs nowe se wyth what substancyall answere Tyndale can scoffe yt oute.

Tyndale.

And this reason do the Iewes say vnto our charge this day. And thys reason doth chyefely blynde them, and holde them styll in obs••ynacy.

More.

O good lorde, what great pytye yt was that saynte Austayne hadde not had as myche wyt as wyllyam Tyn∣dale that he myghte haue seen that his argument wolde so sone be soyled / and that yt was no better for the chyrche a∣gaynste

heretyques, then for the Iewes agaynste crysten∣dome [ A] / but euen the selfe same reason that maynteyneth, them in theyr obstynacy & kepeth them from crystendome.

But surely saynte Austayn good man saw not so farre. For syth her neuer founde in all his days, neyther Iew nor heretyque so madde to make hym that answere whyche myght so, sone be voyded / he trusted well good man that there wolde neuer none be so folyshe in suche wyse to soyle yt after.

How be yt yf saynt Austayne hadde had no more to say to the Iewes for the defence of his reason, then the heretykes hadde to saye to hym in the soylynge of his reason: then myght the heretyques well haue mokked saynt Austayne, as Tyndale doth nowe, and soyled hys reason in the selfe same fashyon / and so wolde they sone haue done ye may be [ B] sure, had they not seen full well that they sholde haue won them selfe nothynge but shame therby. For yf any he retyke wold so haue sayd vnto saynt Austayn, y^• the Iewes myght saye the same to the crysten people, you knowe not the scryptures of god but by vs bycause we tell you so, er∣go we be the very chyrche of god / and vs ye muste byleue as well in the vnderstandynge of the scrypture, as ye by∣leue vs in the knowynge whyche is the scrypture: saynte Austayne wolde sone haue sayde agayne, that crysten peo¦ple myght answere the Iewe and say, we neyther receyue the scrypture of you nor know the scrypture by you, nor yet byleue you neyther in the declaracyon therof. For yf we dyd / then muste we graunt the gospell were no scrypture, nor nothynge that any of Crystes apostles wrote, nor some [ C] bokes neyther whyche were taken oute of your owne he∣brew tonge. And therfore we knowe neuer a boke of scryp¦ture by your teachynge, but mysse truste rather euery boke of scrypture that commeth out of your handes. For the sy∣nagoge of Moyses whyche was whyle yt lasted the chyrch of god, is now ended and is his chyrch no lenger. B••t our sauyour Cryste hath begonne and contynued his chyrche, this knowen catholyque chyrche gathered of Iewes & gen¦tyles both to gyther. And he toke not the olde scryptures of you, nor of you neyther lerned to know them, nor of you to vnderstande theym / but he made theym all, and by the writers therof hym self endyghted them. And he delyuered vnto vs that chyrche, both those olde and also some other

[ A] newe, and yet dyuerse other instruccyōs of his pleasure in thynges that he wolde haue byleue and done, whereof he caused no parte to be wryten. And then he taught and euer teacheth and euer shall teache, hys catholyque chyrche to knowe as well those holye wrytynges as those other holy thynges vnwryten, wyth all necessary vnderstandynge of those holy wrytynges to. And all this he techeth his ch••rch by hym selfe and his owne spyryte, accordynge to his own promyse euermore abydynge therin,* 1.2 to lede yt in to all ne∣cessary trouth,* 1.3 to thentent that his catholique chyrch may be to euery man that wyll lerne therof and geue credence thereunto as hym selfe commaundeth euery man to do•• a very sure stablyshement and a stronge pyller of trouth / as well in perceyuynge whych is the trew scrypture, as the ne¦cessarye [ B] lernynge of the trew vnderstandynge of the scryp∣ture / & ouer that of euery other thynge that god wyll haue done or bylyue besyde the scrypture. whyche scryptures ye Iewes nothynge now belonge vnto you•• syth ye be no len∣ger the chyrch for whome they serue / and as mych of them as ye can catche in youre handes, ye vse to mysse wryghte and corrupte, and chaunge the very te••te in suche places as the trew texte maketh for our sauyoure Cryste, and for the catholyke fayth taught by hym selfe & his holy spyryte vnto his catholique chyrche.

Thus lo, wyth yet many better thynges mo then eyther my pore wyt or lernynge can deuyse, could saynt Austayn haue answered any suche heretyque that wolde haue soy∣led his reason with the Iewes argumēt, as Tyndale now [ C] doth here..

And farther then myght saynte Austayne haue sayde to that heretyque, as we may saye to this heretyque, y^• what so euer the Iewes wold ••aber or ••angle agayne, ye that are crysten men and falsely professe Cryste, whyche fallynge from h••s fayth styll pretende his name, ye can not say but that the Iewe is trewly and reasonably answered.

And therfore may we saye to Tyndale, that he can not say for the mayntenannce of his solucyon, any such thyng agaynste the reason of saynt Austayne, as saynte Austayn myght haue sayd agaynst such other heretykes. For Tyn¦dale can not saye that the chyrch of Cryste is at an ende as the synagoge of the Iewes is / nor can not deny but that he toke the scrypture of the chyrche, and lerned to knowe the

scrypture by the teachyng of the chyrch / & that none other [ A] chyrche, but the knowen catholyke chyrche, vnto whyche god hath geuyn the gyfte to dyscerne and knowe the scri∣pture from all other wrytyng / as Tyndales own mayster Martyne Luther as false as he is, could not yet for shame but confesse.

And thus lo good crysten reders, here ye clerely se that Tyndales example and symylitude of the Iewes, wherby he wolde shake of saynt Austayns reason made agaynst he retykes, to proue the catholyque chyrche the very chyrch, is well and clerely voyded and proued farre vnlike / so that Tyndale muste seke hym selfe a new solucyon for this. And so ye shall se hym do anon / but ye must geue him leue to rayle a lytle fyrste.

Tyndale. [ B]

Our spyrytes fyrst fals••fye the scrypture, to stablyshe theyr lyes.

More.

Lo good reders, I tolde you ye muste geue hym leue to rayle a lytle, ye & to ly a lytle to / for ellys he can not speke. But yet god be thanked that hys goodnesse hath made yt well perceyued and knowen, that onely the sectys of here∣tykes departyng out of y^• catholike chyrch, haue vsed euer y^• crafte, not onely to refuse for scrypture some parte of the very scrypture in dede / but also for fauour of theyr false he resyes, to chaunge, corrupte, and of purpose to falsefye, wyth rasynge and false wrytyng, the trew texte of those bo¦kes that them selfe take and confesse for the very scripture in dede.

Lette Tyndale tell vs any one peyce of holy scrypture [ C] that the catholyque chyrch refuseth. He can not for shame say yt / where as these heretykes refuse and reiecte diuerse partis of the pistle of saynt Iamys, and some other peyces to now and then when they ly••••e.

Let Tyndale tell what one texte, what one worde, the catholyke chyrch hath gone about to corrupte or chaunge to make the text the more mete for theyr mater. Now hath yt ben an olde pranke of heretykes, to vse that fashyon of malycyouse corruptynge the bokes of the holy scripture in in theyr handes / as ye may rede in autentyke storyes, that the Arrianys dyd, and were shamefully taken wyth all.

Of this falsefyenge we haue also a freshe new ensample geuen vs by Tyndale hym selfe in his translacyon / wher∣in

[ A] he falsefyeth the trewe texte of the testament of Cryste, and putteth out both penaūce, preste, & chyrch, with cherite, grace, and all / turnynge theym into other word••••, for the settynge forth & auaūcyng of hys false faccyouse heresyes.

Of thys falsefyenge haue these heretykes also gyuē vs good ensample, in the bokes that they haue put forth, and in the calender of the sayntes haue put out saynt Po••ycar∣pus that holy man the .xxiii. daye of February, and sette in in hys place a stark wreched heretyke, late burned at May¦deston and now burnynge in hell called Thomas Hytton, whom they call in theyr kalender saynt Thomas of Kente

Suche purpensed falsefyenge of bokes vse alway these heretykes, and none at any tyme but heretykes.

Thus do they falsefye the bokes of the olde holy doc∣tours [ B] and sayntes, such as they eyther do trāslate or cause to be put in prente, as doth in dyuers places appere, and maye be clerely proued.

And lately haue they played that pagea••̄t in falsefyeng the very texte ofscrypture, in such wyse y^t they shewe therin theyr honest playnnesse and theyr substancyall trewth.

For haue not some of Tyndals holy elected sorte chaun¦ged the laten texte of saynt Poule in the fyrste pystle to the Corinthians.* 1.4 For where the olde translacyon hathe thys word fornicarii & the newe translacyon scortatores, which sygnyfyeth in englysshe, whore hunters / they haue put in thys worde sacerdotes, that is to say prestes.

And euen as they haue handeled the holy scrypture of god, so haue they vsed them selfe in other wryters that ex∣poune [ C] and declare the scrypture. For the Lutherans putt•• certayne wordes of theyr owne into a boke whych is ascri∣bed vnto saynt Chrysosteme, to make it seme that in whom some euer were fayth, he coulde not be possybly wythoute good workes.

And Huyskyn also in hys translacyon of the cunnynge bysshop Theophylactus vppon saynte Iohn̄ his gospell, lefte out in the exposycyon of the .xxi. chapyter, not a fewe lynes. And leste yf it were perceyued it myghte be layed to hys charge / he sayd that hys boke lacked somwhat in that place, where as other mennes bokes lacke it not.

And holy saynt Thomas alledgeth in hys boke called Cathena aurea, the wordes whyche Huyskyne wold haue seme that they coulde not be founden in the worke. But for

what good intent and purpose he so sayed, the place it selfe [ A] who so euer loke theron shall very well shewe.

How maye Tyndale now good chrysten reders, consy∣derynge thys false shamelesse fasshyon of falsefyenge, so dayly founden in hys felowes and hym selfe to, as well as in other heretykes of olde tyme, be now so bolde as in hys raylynge agaynste the catholyke chyrch, to name onys the name of falsefyenge the scrypture.

But now goeth he forth and sayth, that they falsefy the sentence of the scrypture.

Tyndale.

And when the scrypture cometh to lyght, and is restored vnto the trewe vn¦derstandynge, and theyr iuglynge spyed, and they lyke to suffer shy••warke: then they cast out thys ancre / they be the chyrche and can not erre, theyr au¦thoryte is greater then the sc••ypture, and the s••rypture is not trewe, but by [ B] cause they saye so and admytte it. And therfore what so euer they aff••rme, is of as greate authoryte as the scrypture.

More.

Tyndale here speketh of iewglynge, which he sayth we vse in mysconstrewynge of the scrypture, and whyche he maketh as it were now spyed out, and the scrypture resto∣red vnto his ryght sense agayne. But here is it ethe to spye and perceyue his iewglynge well inough, how he iewgleth hym self ouer the style ere he come at it. For ere euer he gete ouer the hedge, & tell vs what we do whan our iewglynge is spyed / there is a lytell labour for hym of halfe a myles walkynge ere he come at the hedge, in whych he sholde tell vs and reherse vs some of those textes of scrypture, whych the catholyke chyrch or the doctours therof haue falsefyed [ C] wyth iewglynge away the ryght vnderstandynge, & which textes hym selfe and hys secte, that is to wyt all the se••tes (for of them all is he as contrary as eche is to other) haue now restored vnto hys ryght sense agayne.

Thus he sholde haue shewed vs fyrste, and then haue shewed vs after what the chyrche sayth therin, & proue that exposycyon false, & that by suche exposycyon the trew sense were iugled awaye. Thys waye sholde Tyndale take.

But for as mych as he loueth well to walke in the dark, and there to iewgle as men maye not se to hys handes: I shall lyghte hym a candell and let you se for a sample some of these textes y^t he meneth of, & for shame dare not speke of

He meaneth all those textes of scrypture that speke of

[ A] good wurkes, and by whyche textes god promyseth that good wurkes clensen our soules.* 1.5 As where our sauyour sayth, That thynge that ye haue more then inough gyue out in almoyse, and than lo be all thynges cle••e vnto you.

And where y^e scrypture sayth,* 1.6 Lyke as water quenche••h the fyre, so doth almoyse dede put of synne:* 1.7 And this texte also, A mannes owne rychesse do redeme hys soule.

He meneth also all such textes of scrypture, as gyue vs warnynge that god wyll rewarde our good wurkes in he∣uyn, and that for lacke of good wurkes men shalbe damp∣ned in hell. As where our sauyour ••aythe hym selfe in the gospell of saynt Mathewe,* 1.8 The sonne of man shall come in hys fathers glory with his angels, and then shall he re∣warde euery man accordynge to hys dedys.* 1.9 And by the [ B] mouth of saynt Poule, we muste all be browght before the iudgement seate of Cryste, that euery man maye receyue y^e wurkes of hys owne body, accordyng as he hath done whyther it be good or euyll. Also in the Apocalyps,* 1.10 I shall rewarde euery one of you accordynge to your deadys. And agayn in the .xxii. chapyter,* 1.11 Beholde I come shortely,* 1.12 and my rewarde is wyth me to gyue euery man accordyng as his wurkes shalbe.* 1.13 And in many playne places of scryp¦ture more.* 1.14

All these textes lo do Luther and Tyndale say,* 1.15 that the catholyke chyrch iugle from theyr trew sense, bycause they teche them as god and the holy goost hath spoken them & verely ment and entended by them.

[ C] And all these textes do these holy sectes so restore agayn to theyr ryght sense and vnderstandynge, that they clene destroye them, and constrewe them clene contrary bothe to the playne wordes and menynge / and wolde wyth theyr euyll gloses make men byleue, that all the good workes were ryght nought worth at all, and that nothynge shalbe rewarded but onely fayth, nor no man for any thynge dāp∣ned but for onely lacke of bylyefe.

And therfore sayth saynt Luther enspyred wyth the spy¦ryte of Lucyfer, that a good man when he doth any good dede, he doth synne / and that there can no thynge dampne a chrysten man as longe as he wyll byleue. For what syn∣nes so euer he do bysyde, yf fayth eyther stande styll wyth hym or come agayne vnto hym, hys fayth doth than suppe vp in a moment all hys synnes at onys, wythout any pe∣naunce

at all. He weneth he were suppynge vp of a rere ro∣ten [ A] egge wythout eyther brede ••r salte / for there nedeth none other penaunce ye wote well therto, but euyn drynke well to it.

with thys goodly glose lo restore these men these textes of scrypture vnto the ryght sense agayne.

Then when we tell them that good workes by whyche they sette so lytle•• god setteth so mych by, that by the mouth of his blessed apostle saynt Iamys, he giueth all the world warnynge,* 1.16 that the bylyefe wherin they putte all the lyfe, is wythout good workes in hym that may wurke a thyng as to wchynge any lyfe of grace or glory clerely des••ytute & dede: when we tell Luther, Tyndale, or Bar••s this tale, then wrestle they wyth that texte, and wrythe it and wreste it about, and fayne wolde wynde them selfe out wyth iew∣glynge [ B] fayth alone into fayth, hope, and cheryte. But per∣ceyuynge that folysshe iewglynge to be so fonde a poynte, that all that loke theron laughe therat / they shake of that texte an other way, and the whole pystle therwyth, bycause of other playne wordes that saynt Iamys hath therin for the sacrament of anelynge. For whyche to rydde them selfe of bothe the busynesse at onys,* 1.17 and of many sore wordes also, wherwyth saynte Iamys dothe in the same pystle as playnely preche agaynste these heretykes, and as surely de¦scrybeth theym, as though he hadde longe bene conuer∣saunt & in compauy with theym / as the kynges hyghnesse excellently well marketh and reherseth: Luther letteth not vppon the boldenesse and authoryte of hys apostasye, to reiecte and caste out as no scrypture that whole pystle of [ C] Crystes blessed apostle / sayeng that wyse men affyrme yt to be none of his, and that yt hath no smakke of any apos∣tolyque spyryte. And yet blasphemeth farther and sayeth, that yf yt were his in dede, he wolde not let to tell hym, that in some thynges there the apostle toke more vppon hym then myght well become hym.

Then concernynge the sacramentes, all suche as them selfe deny, that is to wyt fyue of the s••uen, all suche textes as in the scrypture speke of them / those they glose as it ple¦seth theym. As in the sacrament of presthed, the wordes of saynt Poule vnto Timothe, by whych he playnely speketh of grace geuen vnto Tymothe* 1.18 by the puttynge of his han¦des vppon hym / that Tyndale sayeth was but as a man

[ A] layeth his hande vppon a boyes hed when he calleth hym good sonne.

In the sacrament of matrimo••y, where as saynt Poule sayth yt is a great sacramēt / those wordes gloseth Luther, and sayth that saynt Poule peraduenture sayd that of his owne hed.

In the blessed sacrament of the auter,* 1.19 where as our sa∣uyour sayde hym selfe, This is my body / there gloseth Lu¦ther his wordes, and sayeth yt is as myche to say, as thys is brede wyth my body. And frere Huyskyn, Tyndale, and Swynglius, glosen yt, and sayth that these wordes, This is my body, be as myche to say as this is nothyng, and but onely sygnyfyeth my body, and ys not my body at all.

And as concernynge holy vowes, where the scrypture [ B] sayeth, Paye youre vowys / frere Luther, frere Huyskyn, Swynglius, and Tyndale, so glose yt•• that they conclude that euery frere may sette his vowe at nought, and wedde a nunne when he wyll.

And thus lo good chrysten reders, do these holy folke brynge the scrypture to lyght,* 1.20 and res••ore yt to the trew vn¦derstandynge / and spye out the iewglyng of the catholyke chyrche, that wolde iugle awaye suche good gloses.

Now where Tyndale sayeth that we say that thautho∣ryte of the chyrche is grea••er then the scrypture / and that the scrypture is not trew, but bycause the ch••rche sayth so and admytte yt: in this he sayeth his pleasure as hym lys∣teth to ieste / for he hereth no man so madde to say so•• for the scrypture were trew though neuer man loked theron. But [ C] this in dede we say, that the chyrche hath the gyfte of god to dyscerne whyche is the very scrypture and whyche not. And y^t we say true in this / not onely saynt Austayn perde, but holy Luther hym selfe also Tyndales owne mayster, bereth vs agaynste Tyndale good and substancyall wyt∣nes••e. And we say that theruppon foloweth it though Tyn¦dale and Luther both say nay, that the same chyrche is the very chyrche. And so we say yet agayne that Tyndale is concluded in the pryncypall poynt.

And where he sayth that we say, that euery thyng that the chyrche sayeth, is of as great authoryte as the scryp∣ture: we saye that god shall neuer suffre in mater of sal∣uacyon or dampnacyon, the catholyque chyrche to say but the trouth / bycause of his promyses made whych we haue

often rehersed, & bycause he wyll haue the catholyke chyrch [ A] to be to suche as wyll lerne, the pyller and sure stablyshe¦ment of trouth, as well in doctryne of fayth as of maners. And theruppon we very truely conclude, that the whole catholyque chyrche of .xv. hūdred yere, is better to be byle∣ued then Luther or Tyndale eyther in the vnderstandyng of scrypture / and that we therfore rather oughte to byleue the catholyque chyrche, that by the vnderstandynge of scry¦pture hath tolde vs this .xv. hundred yere, that yt is abo∣mynable for a frere to wedde a nunne, then to byleue wyl∣lyam Tyndale / whyche in defence of Martyne his mays¦ter, or frere Luther hym selfe eyther, whych for the defence of his owne shamefull synne, by the false glosynge of the scripture, affermeth that freres to wedde nūnys were well and vertuously done. [ B]

And thus ye se to what good effecte Tyndales solucyon is come / wherwyth he wolde answere saynt Austaynes rea¦son, by ferynge hym that the Iewes myght laye the same reason for theym.

But now goth Tindale well fauoredly forth with a gret face of a no••her full ••olucyon / and at a great length telleth vs in effecte none other maner thynge but the selfe same tale agayne / and yet hath he tolde yt vs onys euery dele in his other solucyon of the fyrste reason / before whych solu∣cyon I haue soyled, and from all wyt and reason assoyled in my laste boke byfore.

Tyndale.

Notwytstandynge as I sayde, the kyngdome of heuen standeth not in wor∣des of mannys wysedome, but in power and spyryte.

More. [ C]

This is very well sayd / & in his solucyon of y^e fyrst reason he said y•• wote wel y^e same. And now se ye wel y^t for y^e catho¦like chyrch both y^e reasons be first brought forth by very spi¦rytuall men / the fyrst reason by saynt Cypriane, the secōde by saynt Austayne. And yt hath suche power, that yt for∣ced Luther hym selfe Tyndales owne mayster, to consent and agree therto. And the catholyque chyrche hath also for her parte the great power of the holy spyryte of god, that in this catholyque chyrche from the begynnynge vnto this present day, neuer hath ceaced yet nor neuer shall I trust, to shew many meruelouse myracles. wherof let vs now se whyther Tyndale spekynge so myche of spyryte & power,

[ A] can tell vs of any spyryt at any tyme assystyng any of all y^e chyrches of so many sectys of heretykes, that euer had the myght and power to shew so mych as any one myracle this fyftene hundred yere among them euerychone. But what? in stede of such spyryte and suche power, ye shall here nowe that this high spyrytuall man shall make you some strong potancyall reason.

Tyndale.

And therfore loke vnto the samples of scrypture, and s•• ••halt thou vnder∣••tande. And of an hundred ensamples betwene M••yses and ••hrys••e, where the Israelytes fell from god and were euer restored by one prophete ••r other, lette vs take one euen Iohn̄ Baptyste. Iohn̄ went be••••re Chryste to prepare hys waye / that is to brynge men vnto the knowlege of theyr synnes and vnt•• r••p••n¦taunce, thorow tr••w expoundynge of the lawe, whyche is the one••y w••••e vnto [ B] Chryste. For excepte a man knowlege his synnes and repent of them / he can h••••e no parte in Chryste. Of Iohn̄ Chryste sayth Matt. xvii. that he was E••ias that shuld come and restore all thynge. That is he shulde res••••••e the s••rypture vnto the ryght sence agayn / which the pharysyes had corr••pte with the ••e••ē of theyr false gloses and vayne fleshely tradycyons. He made croked thynges streyght, as yt is wryten, and rough smoth. Why••he is also to l•• vnderstande o•• the s••ry¦pture whych the pharysyes had made croked, wres••ynge them vnto a false sense with wyked gloses, and so rough that no man coulde walke in the waye of them. For when god sayde, honour father and mother, meanynge that we shulde obey them and also helpe them at theyr nede / the pharysyes put these g••ose ••••erto out of theyr owne leuen, sayenge: God is thy father and mother. Wherf••re w••at so euer nede thy father and mother haue, yf thou offer to god thou art ho••e ex••u∣sed. For yt is better to offer to god then to thy father and mother, and so my••e more mery••oryous as god is greater then they: ye and god hath ••••ne m••re f••r [ C] the then they, and ys more thy father and mother then they. As ••ur•• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 af∣fyrme, that yt is more merytoryous to offer to god and kis holy deed saynt••s, then vnto the pore lyuynge sayntes. And when god had promysed the people a sa¦uyour to come and blesse theym and saue them from theyr synnes / the pharysyes taught to byleue in holy workes to be saued by, as yf they offred and gaue t•• be prayed for. As oures, as ofte as we haue a promyse to be forgeuen at the repen∣taūce of the herte thorow Crystes blood shedynge, put to, thou must fyrst ••oryue thyselfe to vs of euery syllable / and we must laye our handes on thyne ••ed, and whystell oute thy synnes, and e••ioyne the penaunce to make satysfaccyon. And yet art thou but loused from the synne onely that thou shalt not come in to hell / but thou muste yet suffre for euery synne seuen yeres in purgatory, ••h••••he is as who•• as hell / except thou bye yt out of the pope. And yf thou as••e by what mea¦nes the pope geueth such pardon / They answere out of the merytes of Cryst. And thus at the laste they graunt agaynst them selfes, that Chryste hath not onely de¦serued

for vs the remyssyon of our synnes, but also the forgyuenesse of that grosse [ A] and fleshely imagyned purgatorye, saue thou muste bye yt out of the pope. And wyth suche tradycyons they toke away the keye of knowlege, and stopped vppe the kyngdome o•• heuen, that no man coulde entre in.

And as I sayde, they taught the pe••ple to byleue in the dedes of the ceremo¦nyes, whyche god ordeyned not to iustyfye but to be sygnes of promyses, by why¦che they that byleued were iustyfyed. But the pharysyes put out the sygnyfyca∣cyons, and quenched the fayth, and taught to be iustyfied by the worke / as ours haue serued vs.

For oure sacramentes were onse but sygnes, partely o•• what we shulde byleue to sterre vs vp vnto fayth / and partely what we shulde do, to sterre vs vppe to do the law of god / and were not workes to iustyfy••.

Now make this reason vnto Iohn̄ and vnto many prophetes that went before hym and dyd as he dyd, ye and vnto ••ryste hym selfe and his apostles / and thou shalt fynde them all heretykes, and the scrybes and pharysyes good men, yf that [ B] reason be good.

More.

Lo good cristē reders here haue I rehersed you his long processe, not in pyeces but euē as it lyeth to gether / by why¦che ye ••ay se that Tyndale doth nothyng here, but tell vs the self same tale that he told vs byfore in his solucyon to the first reason. For there he told vs thesame tale of the scry¦bes, and pharysyes, and synagoges, and saynt Iohn̄ Bap¦tyste, and Cryste, and his apostles / wyth his resemblynge of the scrybes and pharysyes, and synagoge, to the clergye and to the catholyque chyrche / and hym selfe, and his holy mayster Martyn Luther, and frere Huiskyn, frere Lābert, and Swynglius, & such other holy heretykes, vnto saynt [ C] Iohn̄ and our sauyour & his apostles, as prophetes nowe new comen to begynne the trew chyrche of god agayne, by goynge oute of the catholyque chyrche / in lyke maner as Criste and his apostles, & saynt Iohn̄ the fore ••oer, cam to begynne agayne the trew chyrche of god, by callynge men from the synagoge.

All this tale as he tolde yt there so now for a new thyng he telleth vs agayne here. And all this tale as I there an∣swered yt and clerely proued yt noughte, so shall I desyre the reder to resort thither, and there to rede myne answere / and then shall he fynd that lyke wyse as this is but his old tale new told, so nedeth it none other cōfutacyon but euen myne answere new redde.

For where he begynneth agayne here as he dyd there,

[ A] hys hundred prophetes that were sent bytwene the dayes of Moyses and Cryste to call agayn the Israelytes beyng so often in the meane whyle fallen from Cryste vnto idola∣trye: he can neuer proue that syth Chrystes dayes the ca∣tholyke chyrche hath onys so done, nor that euer it so shall here after / but yf he proue therwyth all Chrystes promy∣ses broken,* 1.21 by whyche he hath promysed to kepe hys chyr∣che therfro / as when he sayd that the gatys of hell sholde neuer preuayle agaynst hys chyrch / and that hym selfe had so prayed for saynt Peter,* 1.22 that hys fayth whyche he confes¦sed sholde neuer fayle nor be put out of hys chyrche / and that he ••old sende y^e holy goste therin to teche it all trouth and lede it into all trouth / and that hym selfe wold be ther wyth all dayes vnto the very ende of the worlde.

[ B] By thys it appereth playnely,* 1.23 that though they whyche fall from thys chyrche, that is to wytte suche sectes of he∣retykes as go oute therof, maye fall to idolatrye: yet the chyrche it selfe, that is to saye the stocke that standeth styll and remayneth, god shall neuer suffre to fall frō the fayth, but yf he breke all these promyses / whyche we be sure that the vnchaungeable treuth of hys owne nature, beynge as hym selfe sayde the very naturall treuth, can neuer suffer hym to do.

And so Tyndale can in thys poynt neuer make the sy∣nagoge of Moyses lyke the chyrche of Chryste, that is to wytte the knowen cōtynued catholyke chyrch / to the onely whyche as saynte Austayne sayth and Luther confesseth, and Tyndale can not saye naye, god hath gyuen the grace [ C] to knowe the very scrypture from the false, and the wordes of god frome the wordes of men, and to teche other folke the same all suche as gyue credence to it.

Besydes this, yf he wyll make hys ensample lyke / then muste he fyrste name vs a good sorte of those hundred pro∣phetes, that in that meane tyme bytwene Moyses & Cryste called the people home from idolatry. And then yf he so do / he shall fynd them such as the doctryne of the latter agreed & consented with the doctryne of the elder / or yf god by the lat••••r opened and reueled any ferther thynge, he yet by my¦••acles and other open meanes proued them for so good & holy, y^• though the peple and the princes both dyd dysalow them, and hated them, and kylled theym to / yet when they were dede, varyed they neuer so farre from theyr doctryne,

and were the neuer so farre from the folowynge of theyr ly¦uynge [ A] whyle they lyued, yet they perceyued them after for sayntes, and had them in perpetuall honour and reuerence to theyr owne condempnacyon as oure sauyour sayeth by theyr contrary lyuynge and persecutynge of the lyke, and yet to the testymony of the trouth thorough goddes pro∣uysyon, for the profyte of other that wold both folow them and byleue them better.

And therfore yf Tyndale wyll now make hys mater good and hys ensample lyke / he muste reherse vs a lyke sorte of some suche other holy prophetes, as god hath syth the deth of Cryste in thys .xv. hundred yere, sent hyther to call home his chyrche from idolatry / as those other prophe¦tes were that he speketh of / sent in shorter season, to call home agayne the Iewes. [ B]

Thys must he shewe vs yf he shewe any thynge to pur∣pose. And then whome shall he name vs? Nicholaus and Cheryntus, Uigilantius Dormitantius, Manicheus, Ua¦lentinus, Arrius, Iouiniane, Heluidius, Ennomius, Mar¦cion, Montanus, wyclyffe, and Husse / and a sorte of lewde wedded freres, as Luther, and Lambert, and Huyskyn / or prestes apostataas from the chrysten fayth, as Pomeran, Suynglius, and Huchyn here hym selfe. If he name you these / let hym proue them onys good men, or at y^e lest wyse some one amonge them all, let hym proue theyr doctryne agreable, or at the leste wyse obstynately not repugnaunt / let hym that sheweth any ferther thynge then hys felowes, by some maner meane proue hym selfe sent by god, or such a man at the leste wyse as the people myghte haue cause to [ C] reken hym for hys lyuynge, a man very lykely for god in so greate a mater to chese oute specially and sende forth on hys errande.

But thus ye wote well that of all these that are dede, the worlde hereth not a good worde that euer there was one good of them, but openly condempned for false. And as for these that nowe lyue / we se well at our owne eyen, they be starke rybaudes all•• And agrement in theyr doctryne, ney∣ther is there none now nor neuer was there yet. Myracles as shamelesse as they be, they can not for shame saye that euer they shewed any. So that these were neuer any of the holy men, whom god hath sent to call home hys chyrche so often from idolatry to ••ayth, as Tyndale sayeth that the

[ A] hundred prophetes an hundred tymes called home the Ie∣wes. And yet suche muste he shewe yf he saye aughte to purpose.

And therfore yf these heretykes wyll nowe be resembled to Chryste and hys apostles and to saynt Iohn̄ / let Tyn∣dale tell vs whyche of them to whyche of these? If these be now sent to call the catholyke chyrche to the ryghte faythe from whyche it was fallen before, as Chryst was and hys apostles wyth saynt Iohn̄ hys fore goer to call home the synagoge / than lette Tyndale now tell vs whyche of them he resembleth to saynte Iohan, whyche to Chrystes apo∣stles, and whyche vnto Chryste hym selfe. And yf he lyken Luther to Chryste, thenne who was Luthers saynte Iohn̄ Babtyste and fore goer / or ellys whose fore goer and bap∣tyste [ B] is Luther, to whome maketh he the waye now as the tother dyd to Chryst? I wene in good fayth to Antechryst, and so forth to the deuyll of hell.

How be it of treuth, holy prophetes hath there bene sent vnto the worlde by god and into the chyrche of Chryst, mo then an hundred syth the deth of Chryste, to kepe in the ryghte fayth and calle home the people fro synne, by the trewe doctryne of the spyryte, inspyrynge theym the ryghte sense of scrypture, & what so euer god wolde haue knowen besyde. whose doctryne in the necessary poyntes dyd agre togyther, and which were holy men, so knowen well whyle they lyued, and so taken after theyr deth declared for god∣des messengers by many a myghty myracle.

Of these men may I name full many of sundry tymes, [ C] as saynt Ignacius•• saynte Policarpus, saynte Cypriane, saynte Basile, saynt Crysosteme, saynt Leo, saynt Hylary, saynt Ierome, saynt Ambrose, & saynte Austayne.

Now yf Tyndale dare saye that hym self meneth these / then say we that none of these called vs to Tyndals fayth. For none of them dyd constrewe the scrypture as Tyndale doth. And therfore hys fayth is not Chrystes fayth, nor Tyndals doctryne agreable and consentynge to theyrs. For yf Tyndale dare saye that hys doctryne and theyrs agree / lette Tyndale then of theym all name vs now some o••e that euer called relygyous persons to the brech and cō¦tempte of theyr vowes, and sayd that chastyte was an vn∣lawfull vowe, & wolde that monkes and freres sholde rūne out and wedde nonnes.

Then syth that of hys hundred prophetes bytwene [ A] Moyses and Cryste, Tyndale leueth of foure score and nynetene, and is content to take no mo but saynt Iohn̄, to shewe that hym selfe doth go from the catholyke chyrche & rebuke the doctryne therof, as saynt Iohn̄ dyd fro the sy∣nagoge, & rebuked the doctryne of the phareseys: he muste shewe vs as I answered him ī my sexte boke, y^• or he proue saynt Iohn̄ and hym selfe matches in that poynt, he muste proue that hym selfe was prophecyed vppon to be the fore goer of some newe Cryste as good as euer was the olde. He muste also shewe vs hys lyuynge somewhat more lyke the lyuynge of saynt Iohn̄ then it appereth yet.

Also bycause he sheweth no myracles / he muste proue vs that hys newe Chryste to whome hym selfe is the fore goer, must do suche myracles as our olde Cryste dyd / and [ B] then bere wytnesse of Tyndale hys holy baptyste, as oure Cryste bare wytnesse of the tother. And all thys in hys lyfe besyde myracles many shewed for hym when he is dede.

Fynally yf he wyll saye as he meneth here, and playnely sayth in hys other solucyon to the fyrste reason, that he and hys felowes do now rebuke the doctryne of the catholyke chyrche, in lyke maner as saynt Iohn̄ the baptyste & Cryst dyd rebuke the doctryne of the scrybes and pharyseys: he muste proue vs that of those scrybes and pharyseys which taught the doctryne that saynt Iohn̄ baptyste and our sa∣uyour rebuked, were holy men and saynte••. For els sayeth Tyndale no thynge to the purpose / for ••s myche as hym selfe can not saye naye, but that many of those that haue taught the thynges that Tindal•• and Luther now rebuke [ C] were holy doctours and sayntes of euery age synnes Cry∣stes dayes to theyr owne.

And thus ye se good readers, that where Tyndale byd∣deth vs loke vppon the olde ensamples, and then pyketh out specyally saynt Iohn̄ Baptyste to resemble hym selfe & hys prechynge to, and hys demeanure agaynste the catho∣lyke chyrche, vnto saynt Iohn̄ and his demeanure toward the synagoge / is as vnlyke as are whyte and blacke.

Now shall ye well perceyue, that the persons of saynte Iohn̄ Baptyste and of syr wyllyam Tyndale, be not mych more vnlyke, no nor so farre vnlyke neyther not by a great dele, as are the thynges that saynte Iohn̄ reproued in the

[ A] doct••yne of the scrybes & pharysyes, and the thynges why¦che Tyndale reproueth in the doctryne of the catholyque chyrche.

How be yt Tyndale to make them seme lyke, dyssymu∣lyng the greatest thynges & of most weyght, pyketh oute a fewe thynges wherin he wolde make the mater seme som∣what lyke / & yet fyndeth he none very lyke. And ouer that where they seme lyke, he maketh theym seme lyke wyth lyenge.

For fyrste he begynneth as ye haue herde wyth the false glose of the pharysyes, by whyche many of them falsely cō¦strynge goddes commaundement of honourynge theyr fa¦ther and mother, mysse taughte the people, that what nede so euer theyr father and mother had, yet yf they offred vnto [ B] god, they dyd better then yf they holpe theyr father & theyr mother therwyth. And when he hath tolde this of the pha¦rysyes / then resembleth he the doctryne of the chyrche ther to, and sayth, As ours now af••erme that yt is more merytory••use to ••f••re to god and his holy sayntes dede, then vnto the pore lyuynge sayntes.

Lo good reder here knoweth Tyndale well ynough that he lyeth to make the two thynge seme lyke / and yet he ma∣keth them not lyke. For well ye wote, there is no lytle dyf∣ference betwene the thynge that Tyndale sayth here, the chyrche teacheth to be more merytoryouse to of••re to god then to gyue to a pore man / and the thynge that he sayth the pharysyes taughte, that yt was more merytoryouse to offre vnto god, then helpe his father with y^• money, were he in neuer so great nede. For I am not lyke boūden to helpe [ C] euery straunger y^t is a porem, tanhat is say in some pouer∣ty / as to helpe myne owne father that were im extreme ne¦cessyte. And yet as vnlyke as they be, these two thynges doth Tyndale here lyken to gether. Myght he not here ly∣ken almoste as well Powles steple to a dagger sheth?

And yet in this lykenynge as vnlyke as they be, he let∣teth not a lytle to lye, to lynke them so nere to gether.

For I wysse Tyndale know••th very well, that no man teacheth so precysely as he reherseth / y^t yt is better to offre to god and hys holy sayntes dede, then vnto the pore ly∣uyng saynts. But the doctryne of the chyrch is as hym self can tell full well yf he lysted not to lye, that whych of those two thynges offrynge or geuynge in almoyse is for the tyme more merytoryouse, dependeth vppon the cyrcum∣staunces

of the dede, & the persons at the tyme. For yt were [ A] not alwaye trew to saye, that I muste helpe my father by∣fore a straunger, nor my selfe byfore a nother man. For my father may percase haue some nede and my selfe both / and yet not so myche, but that I were bounden for the tyme to geue fro my selfe, & yet not to my father, but for the tyme to some straunger whome I neuer knewe byfore / his neces∣syte may be suche.

And therfore the catholyque chyrche teacheth, that both to gyue almoyse is good, and to offer is good / and he that hath wherwyth to do both, ought to do the tone, and doth well to do the tother. But where the tone ys better and where the tother / is to be consydred by hym that doth yt, vppon the tyme and persons, and many other cyrcum∣staunce mo then well can be comprehēdyd and gyuen men [ B] in wrytyng, vnder any suche certayne rules, but that some tyme they may fayle. But reason ruled by charyte and de∣uocyon, shall not nede to fere but they shall do bothe full well, and perceyue suffycyētly where the tone is to be done and where the tother, yf they folowe not these heretyques in contempnynge the tone.

* 1.24The chyrch sayth as saynt Poule sayth, that vyrginyte is better then y^• worke of wedloke. yet meneth neyther the chyrche nor saynt Poule that yt so were, yf there were but one man wyth one woman left a lyue in all y^• whole world.

* 1.25Saynt Mary Magdaleyn was more alowed of Cryst fo•• bestowyng that costely oyntement vppon his hedde, so fully and so frely that she brake the glasse, and all to s••ewe that she wolde none spare for her selfe / then yf she had sold [ C] yt as Iudas wolde haue had yt, and geuen the money to pore men.

And yet dyd she yt but to do hym pleasure wyth, as men dyd then vnto gestes to make them chere with all / as folke do now caste damaske water and burne plesaūt perfumes. All be yt vnware to her selfe se dyd in dede worke a myste∣ry therin, that dyd betokē his beryeng. But god as I say the thāke y^t he gaue her, he gaue her not for y^e mystery wher∣upō she thought not / but for her deuout mynde y^• she bare towarde hym. And yet peraduenture neyther she wold nor god wolde she sholde, haue bestowed yt so in case yt hadde happened that there had lyen a man so lyke, that wtyhout y^t oyntement he shold haue / dyed & that she had well wyste

[ A] or thought, that she might by that oyntement saue his lyfe and by nothypge ellys.

But all be yt there were pore men very many whom she myght haue refreshed, & well wyste there were so: yet syth she neyther knewe theyr nede for so great that requyred so sodayne helpe, nor other mennys deuocyon for so small, but that they myghte be holpen by other folke / she neyther thought her self boūden nor no more she was in dede, to fo¦lowe the counsayle of Iudas in geuynge the pryce to pore men, rather then in wytnesse and testymonye of her good wyll and deuocyon, te spende yt out in pleasure vppon the blessed body of Cryste. And yet was he not rauyshed wyth the odour of her oyntemēt, but wyth y^• delyte of her deuocy¦on / in whych he delyteth yet when any man doth the lyke.

[ B] And therfore I say, that though the pharysyes taughte wronge, whome saynte Iohn̄ reproued and our sauyoure hym selle also, in that they taught that yt was better to of¦fre the money to god, then honoure and helpe theyr father and mother therwyth were theyr nede neuer so great: yet the chyrche teacheth ryghte. For yt teacheth playne the cō¦trarye therof / and sayeth that the pharysees taughte false / and teacheth onely that to offre to god and his sayntes is well done, and that to helpe pore men and gyue almoyse muste nedes be done. And when and in what case the tone is more merytoryouse then the tother, the chyrche teached many good and resonable rules / and yet can no man well tell so many, but that as I sayde some tyme the reason of the man ruled wyth charyte and deuocyō that cōmeth and [ C] worketh wyth grace muste be his guyde therin.

But now these new men begyn to geue a certayn rule, that as they say shall put vs quyte out of all doute, when we shall do the tone and whē the tother. For therin lo thus they say. Offrynge say they, to god or to sayntes, and lyke wyse byeldynge of chyrches, byenge of copes, bokes, sur∣plyce, and chalyce, be thynges voluntarye, to the doynge wherof no commaundement of god constrayneth the. But as for geuynge of almoyse is a thynge necessary, wherun∣to god by his own biddyng byndeth the. And therfore fyrst euermore geue thy money to the pore men that nede yt as longe as there be any, And then lo whē there be no mo pore men left y^• ye may bestowe youre money vppon / go to then good crystyens in goddes name and bestow the remanaūt

wheron ye wyll, euen vppon pylgremages yf ye lyst, lo and [ A] vppon offrynges, and byeldynge of chyrches, and byeng of bokes, and copes, and crosses, and shyppes, and sensers hardely to for me. And therfore saye not now y^t we say that the volūtary thynges be not lawfull. For we say no more, but y^e the necessary thynges must nedes be done fyrste / and I wysse good crystyens ye wote well your sel••e that is ve∣ry good reason.

Now to thende that ye may good reders the better per∣ceyue whyle they teache in thys maner, what theyre very mynde is in the mater / ye shall vnderstande that it hap∣ped my selfe to be vppon a tyme present in a certayne as∣semble of personages, bothe of great honoure and also of great connynge / in whyche amonge other thynges that were there treated of, one that hadde in sundry places prea¦ched [ B] after suche maner fashyon as I haue here rehersed you, was demaunded and asked whyther yt were ynough byfore a man bestow his money vppon such kyndes of vo¦lūtary, to helpe fyrste such pore nedy folke as he happened to here of vnsought or ellys that he must besydes that by∣fore he bestowe any money other wyse, seke and serche a∣bout whether he may fynd any mo. wherunto he answered well and playnely, that we be fyrst bounden to seke & serch & be sure therof / namely bycause of suche as can not come forth but lye styll bedred at home / & some that be peraduen¦ture a shamed to offre theym selfe and begge,

Then was he demaūded farther, syth yt was not inough to geue pore men whē they asked, nor where we foūd them by happe / but we were forther boūden before we bystowed [ C] ought vppon volūtarye, to seke and serche out such neces∣sary: whyther yt suffysed then to take for our parte those nedy folke that were founde in oure owne paryshe, or ellys that we muste extende oure almoyse farther to the whole towne. wherunto he answered, that neyther suffysed oure paryshe nor our towne, no nor all our own whole countrey neyther / but where so euer there where any pore nedy men, we were bounden to helpe theym all, byfore we sholde any thynge bestowe vppon suche kyndes of voluntary / so that fynally the man was fully mynded, rather to send vs all to Rome to seke & serch out some pore man and bere him a pe∣ny thether, then to suffer vs spende a halpeny eyther oute or at home, vppon any offerynge eyther to god / or saynte

[ A] or byeldynge of chyrche or garnysshynge therof, or byenge of any ornament therfore.

And surely yf these folke saye well / then Mary mawde∣layne dyd not wel, but was mych to blame.* 1.26 For I am very sure, and our sauyour hym selfe shall bere me recorde, that yf she wolde haue soughte and serched, she moughte haue founden in Hierusalem euyn at her hande, pore nedy men inough to haue receyued twyse as mych money as all that oyntement was worth.

Cryste blamed not those that offered into the treasory of the temple,* 1.27 nor sayd that they offered to myche / but ra∣ther by praysyng of the pore wydow that offered somwhat of her pouerty, rebuked the rych folke for offeryng to ••ytle / all be it that as the gospell sayth, many offered mych. And [ B] yet as I sayed of thys am I very sure, that they myghte haue had poremen inough to bestowe that money vppon in relyefe necessary, that they there spent vppon the tem∣ple, a thynge as these men call it, voluntary.

How be it I meruayle why they sholde call it all volun¦tary, for some of it be thynges that must nedes be done. For chyrches at the leste wyse muste we nedes haue / and yet therto saye some of these folke naye.

But holy saynt Chrysostome calleth vpō folke to byeld chyrches there as it semed necessary / and that so farforth, that rather then to leue that wurke vndone, he wolde they sholde gyue the lesse to pore folke to do the tother wythall. And thenne dare I saye that he wolde haue men bye bothe bokes and chalyces and other ornamentes therto.

[ C] And thus may we sone se, that these new sectes of Tyn¦dals sorte be farre fro saynt Chrysostomes mynde. For ye may well perceyue by theyr doctryne, that when they wold haue all pore men sowght out euer and serued, and euery mannes necessyte done, before any of the tother thynges that they call voluntary shold be by any man begon / what other prechyng is thys, but vtterly to forbyd thē, not with playne wordes, but wyth wurse then playne wordes, wyth blasphemouse mockerye, knauysshe derysyon and scorne.

And surely that worde of Tyndale in whyche he calleth the sayntes that are departed dede sayntes / all be it that there were none harme therin spoken by a good mannes mouth, yet hath it a shrewde sygnyfycacyon spoken out of hys / syth Luther and he wene that there were not one of

theym all in heuyn, but that they lye all in a slepe styll no [ A] man woteth where / and therfore Tyndale bydded vs pray to theym when we speke wyth theym / so that tyll than, he wolde we sholde let them alone.

And thus good chrysten reders, for conclusyon of thys poynt, ye maye clerely se that concernynge offerynges to god or hys sayntes, or money bestowed aboute those good wurkes that these folke call all voluntary, the chyrche te∣cheth ryghte / as appereth well by playne and euydent scrypture. And that the doctryne of the pharyseys whyche Cryste reproued, the chyrche reproueth also and therof te∣cheth the contrary. And so the doctryne of the chyrche and the doctryne of the pharyseys in thys poynte, wherin Tin¦dale resembleth them togyther and lyeth to, to make them lyke / be no more lyke togyther, then is chalke to colys. [ B]

Nowe is all the remanante of hys processe as ye haue herde, nothynge ellys but raylynge vppon the doctours of the catholyke chyrche, for byleuynge that the sacramen¦tes be not bare sygnes and tokens, and bycause of the by∣lyefe of purgatory.

Now am I very gladde that ye se so clerely, that those whome thys newe saynte Iohn̄ Baptyste calleth phary∣seys, be all those olde holy doctours and sayntes that haue bene in euery age thys fyftene hundred yere. For all they haue byleued in the same sacramentes that we do, and the same thynges that thys newe baptyste rebuketh.

And in lykewyse of purgatory Tyndale can not saye naye. For I haue in my thyrde booke of hys confutacyon, layed hym playne wordes of dyuers of the eldest and most holy doctours / and amonge other saynte Chrysostome, [ C] wrytynge that the apostles them selfe prayed for soules in theyr masses.

And now se you playnely that Tyndale calleth theym all pharyseys therfore / and is come as a newe saynt Iohn̄ Baptyste, to shewe vs that by name thys .viii. hundred yere, but by his declaracion thys .xv. hundred yere, the pha¦ryseys, that is to wytte all the holy doctours and sayntes that haue bene all thys whyle in chrystendome from Cryst hym selfe hytherto / the treuth of whose fayth, and the ho∣lynes of whose lyuynge, our lorde hath illustrate and set••e out vnto the shewe wyth many a thousande myracle / haue made the scrypture croked and rowgh / wrestynge it wyth

[ A] false gloses / makynge men byleue that there were purga∣tory, and that men sholde knele to Crystes crosse and kysse it, and wurshyp Crystes holy body in the blessed sacramēt, and kepe the chastyte that they haue vowed to god / tyll now lo that thys newe seynt Iohn̄ baptyste is sent downe to prepare the waye for Antichry••••e, and make the rowgh smothe and the croked strayte, and to turne the hartes of y^e fathers vnto the chyldren, wyth makynge the worlde now to be of the same harte and mynde, that the olde holy fa∣thers haue ben of in olde tyme.

And how wyll thys holy baptyste do all thys gere, and thus turne the hartes of the chyldren and the fathers all in to one? surley by techynge the chyldren as well in fayth as lyuynge, the very clene contrary of all that euer theyr olde [ B] holy fathers thys .xv. hundred yere haue taughte them / & with tellyng vs that all the olde fathers were ••yke the false pharyseys, and corrupted the scrypture as pharyseys dyd wyth false gloses / teachynge good workes and sacramen¦tes, and kepyng of holy vowes and suche other synfull su∣perstycyons. And therfore doth thys holy new baptyste to purge and puryfye the people, byd vs now byleue that to breke the vowe of chastyte is a good wurke and well done / and that all other good wurkes be nought worth / and bap¦tysme as lytell worth, bycause y^e pres••e speketh to the chyld in laten a langage that the chyld vnderstandeth not / as he sholde full well ye wote well, yf the tale were tolde hym in hys mother tong.

Then techeth he vs that confessyon is the deuyls inuen¦cyon, [ C] and absolucyon ys but whystelynge. Satysfaccyon greate synne to do any.

The sacrament of wedlocke he sayeth is suche, that he coulde make as good a sacrament of an olde nette / sauyng onely when freres wedde nonnes / for thā is it holy in suche holy folke.

The sacrament of holy order he iesteth vpon, wyth sha∣uyn, and shorne, and oyled, & waggyng of the bysshoppes hand / and saynt Poules hand layde vppon Tymothe, but lyke a mannes hande layed on a boyes hedde and call hym good sonne. The sacrament of extreme vncciō he calleth but gresynge the syke man. The sacramēt of confyrma¦cyon he calleth but smeryng of the chyldes face, and butte∣rynge of the boyes forehed.

The holy blessed sacrament of the aulter, the very pre∣cyouse [ A] body and bloude of our sauyour hym self / this holy new baptyste forbedyth to haue any honour done vnto it / but onely take it for a memoryall of hys passyō. And then he iesteth theron hym selfe, & sayth that it is no thyng ellys but wyne and cake brede, excepte it be peraduenture tur∣ned into starch.

Lo good Chrysten readers here is the doctryne of thys nowe baptyste / not saynt Iohn̄ Bapty••te but syr wyllyam Baptyste•• thys holy wyllyam Tyndale otherwyse called Huchyn scolare to frere Huyskyn / whyche hath here made you of the synagoge scrybes and pharyseys, such a goodly paynted processe as he hath now tolde you twyse / a serued you wyth a Iak of Parys, an euyll pye twyse baken, to de¦clare you twyse the greate frute and profyte that the world [ B] maye now taken yf it wyll•• by hys holy comynge into it, to preche and rebuke the pharisaycall doctrine of all the olde holy sayntes, and teche hys owne godly chry••ten heresyes suche as ye now haue herde.

And now yf thys gere be good / then haue we surely great cause to thanke god. For then can we lacke none holy bap¦tystes to preche vs. For there is not I wene so pore a vyl∣lage in chrystendome, in whyche there is dwellynge any one vyllayne knaue, but he maye be wythin thre dayes (yf he be not all redy) suche an other baptyste as thys is / and rebuke all that good is wyth suche abomy••able blasphe∣mye as now Tyndale doth, yf any chrysten mannes ••a••ys can abyde the herynge.

But yet remember good readers, that in the conclusyon of all that tale / he knytteth it vp with a fresh lusty poynte, [ C] and soyleth all the reason in thys wyse.

Tyndale.

Now make this reason vnto Iohn̄ Baptist and vnto many prophetes that went before hym and dyd as he dyd, ye and vnto ••rys••e hym selfe and his apostles / and thou shalt ••ynde thē all heretykes, and the scribes and pharysyes good men, y•• that reason be good.

More

Thys poynte is lo the olde poynte, whych here, and in hys solucyon to the ••yrst reason, he hath put forthe four or fyue tymes before / sauynge that he gyueth allway hys old poynt at one ende, or other some newe aglette. But when all hys coste is done theron / it is not all worth an aglet of

[ A] a good blewe poynt. For I haue in my syxte boke answe∣rynge hys solucyon to the fyrste reason, shewed you many answeres that saynt Iohn̄, and Cryste, and hys apostles, and other pore folke to, very farre vnder them, myght saye for them selfe agayn••te the scrybes and pharyseys / whyche thinges neyther Luther, nor Tindale, nor none of all theyr sectes can say for thē selfe, agaynste the catholyke chy••che. And yet more shall I shew you of the same sorte, when ye haue hard what Tyndale can here saye for hym selfe. A••ter all whych thynge harde & well wayed / ye shall well and cle¦rely perceyue, that for Tyndales tale, the reason of saynt Austayne that Tyndale here speketh of, beynge made by the Iewes agaynste saynt Iohn̄ and Cryste and his apost¦les, shall haue no strength at all, neyther to proue theym [ B] euyll nor the pharysyes good. And yet the same reason beynge by the catholyque chyrche made agaynst Tyndale and Luther, and Huyskyn, and Swynglius / muste nedes proue the catholyque chyrch to be the very chyrch of Cryst / and that Luther and Tyndale, and all they, with all those that byleue them, be playne vndouted heretyques.

And therfore let vs fyrst se with what euasion Tyndale wyll auoyde this reason, for hym selfe and his own sectes. And then what Cryste can saye more for hym selfe and his company, we shall se somwhat after.

Tyndale lo teacheth his dyscyples to answere the rea∣son thus.

Tyndale.

Therfore this wyse thou mays••e answere. No thankes vnto the 〈…〉〈…〉 that chyrche that the scrypture was kepte, but vnto the mer••y of go••. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 [ C] as they had destroyed the ryght sense o•• yt for theyr ••••••re sa••e / ••uen 〈…〉〈…〉 they ha••e destroyed yt also had they c••ulde, rather t••••n ••he people shol•• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 come vnto the ryght vnderstandyng of yt / as they 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the tr••we interpre∣t••u••s and preachers of yt. And euen so no th••••••••es vnto our ypocrites that the scrypture is kepte, but vnto the botomles••e mercy of god.

For as they haue destroyed the ryght sence of yt wyth theyr seuen, an•• as they destroye dayly the trewe preachers o•• yt, and as they ••e••e yt from the laye people that they shold not se how they 〈◊〉〈◊〉 wyth yt / euen so 〈◊〉〈◊〉 they destroye yt also coulde they bryng yt about•• rather then we shulde come by the trewe vnderstandynge of y••, were yt not that god prouyded other∣wyse for vs. For they haue put the storyes that shuld in many thynges helpe vs, clene oute of the waye / as nye as they coulde. They haue corrupte the ••e∣gende and lyues almoste of all sayntes. They haue fayned false ••okes, and put them forth, some in the name of saynt Hi••rome, some in the name o•• saynte

Austayne, in the name of saynte Cypriane, saynte Dyonyse, and other holy [ A] men. ••hych are proued none of theyrs / partely by the style and latyne, and partly by autētyke storyes. And as the Iewes h••ue set ••p a boke of tradicy••••s called Talmud, to destroy the sence of the scrypture / vnto whych they ge••e fayth, and vnto the scrypture none at all be yt neuer so playne, but saye yt can not be vnderstande saue by the talmud: euen so haue curs set ••ppe theyre Dunce, theyr Thomas, and a thousand lyke draffe, to stablyshe theyr•• lyes th••row f••lsefyeng the scrypture / and say that it can not be vnderstande with out them be yt neuer so playne. And y•• a man allege an holy doctour agaynst them, they g••••se hym out as they do the scrypture, or wyll not heare, or saye the ••hyrche hath otherwyse determyned.

More.

Nowe good crysten reders here haue you herde one of his answers, whych how yt maketh any thynge to the pur¦pose, surely that se not I. For where as the reason of saint [ B] Austayne is, that men may perceyue that this knowen ca¦tholyque chyrche is the very chyrch, in that that god hath vnto this chyrche geuen his gyfte of dyscernynge the very scrypture of god from the counterfete, and to receyue the tone and reiecte the tother / and that he hath so geuen that grace vnto this chyrch onely, that no man can ordynaryly be sure whyche wrytynge is holy scrypture and whyche is not, but by the tradycyon of this chyrche and credence ge∣uen therunto / for yf he toke yt of a company of heretiques, yet euermore those heretykes lyke as they came out of this whole chyrche, and theyr authours and begyn••ers were onys a parte therof, and then of this chyrche receyued the scrypture byfore they departed oute therof / so dothe euer∣more the credēce wheruppon the knowlege of the trew scry¦pture [ C] dependeth, that credēce I say resorteth euer vppe to this whole catholyke chyrche / vnto whyche wythoute cre¦dence had ben geuen, none heretyke had knowen whyche were the very scrypture. For the profe wherof, we yet se y^• these h••retykes in so ferforth as they byleue the chyrch, in so ferforth they knowe whyche is the scrypture / and in so ferforth as they byleue not the chyrche, they perceyue not whyche is the scrypture, though they haue it in theyr han∣des and rede yt. As ye may se by the pistle of saynt Iames / whyche pystle Luther and frere Ba••ons let not to reiecte and set a syde for nought. And thus euermore heretikes all the scrypture that they know, by the catholyke chyrch they know. For to this onely chyrche as Tyndales owne mays¦ter

confesseth, hath god gyuen that gyfte to dyscerne the trew scrypture fro the false. And syth that god hath geuen this great spyrytuall gyfte onely to the chyrche, whyche gyfte is a begynnynge of spyrytuall lyuely doctryne / yt therby well and clerely appereth to any man that wyll not wylfully wynke, that this chyrche is the very chyrche, of whyche god wyll haue men lerne.

Now good cristen reder, this beyng the reason and pur¦pose of holy saynte Austayne / and hauyng in yt selfe suche strength, that Luther coulde not hym selfe say nay therto / not withstandynge that the confessynge therof must nedes ouerturne his here••yes: now byddeth Tyndale his dyscy¦ples, that they shall answere therto, that the catholyque chyrch is not to be thāked for the scripture that we receyue [ B] therof, but the botomlesse mercy of god / & here is all thys whole answere to the reason / for all the remanaunt is no∣thynge ellys but raylynge agaynste the chyrch.

Now what goth this answere to the purpose? who byd¦deth hym geue the thanke to the chyrche? let hym lyke as he byleueth the chyrch that the gospels of the foure euan∣gelystes be the trew gospell of Cryste, so know therby and byleue that the same chyrche, by whyche he knoweth that poynt, and whyche in that poynte he byleueth, is here in erth the very chyrche of Cryste / and then let hym geue the thanke to god, wythout whose grace workyng wyth hym, he coulde not byleue the chyrche neyther in the tone poynt nor the tother / and for lakke of whose grace, whych grace he lakketh not but in his own defaut, he now byleueth not [ C] the tone poynte as he dothe the tother, excepte he lakke so mych that for his malyce he byleue neyther nother. I pray god geue hym onys the grace to byleue both / and when he so doth, then shall he haue the grace therwyth to perceyue, that he hath for the knowlege of the trewe scrypture frome the false, great cause to geue thanke to both. Fyrste & pryn¦cypally to god that gaue that gyfte vnto his chyrche, and wrought wyth hym to byleue yt / and after to the chyrche, that was a meane and mynyster in bryngynge that grace vnto hym / and cause also to be gladde a great dele in hym selfe, that he resysted not god and his chyrche, but folowed and went wyth them in callynge hym home agayne, to the bylyefe of god and his chyrche, from the damnable wayes of his malycyouse errours.

And now that ye playnly perceyue that this answere of [ A] his nothynge toucheth the purpose / I wolde very fayne passe ouer his folyshe raylynge, sauyng that yt semeth ne¦cessary that the foly and lyes of suche false frantyque here¦tykes may be well knowen, lest some good symple soules may wene them wyse and trew therwyth, and theruppon be deceyued and byleue them.

Fyrste he rayleth vppon the doctours of the catholyke chyrch, & sayth y^t they haue destroyed y^• right sence of y^• scri¦pture with theyr leuyn. Now all this ye wote well he mea∣neth, in y^• they teach that folke shuld not trust in only fayth wythout good workes of cheryte and of penaūce, and that they teache that freres sholde not wedde n••nnys, and that crysten men sholde praye for all crysten soules, and ••holde haue Crystes holy sacramentes in reuerēce, and specyally [ B] the blessed sacrament of the auter, the precyouse body an•• blood of Cryste hym selfe, and other suche thynges lyke.

This is the leuen for whych Tindale doth now damne here the doctoures of the catholyque chyrche. But euery man well woteth, and hym selfe to though he say nay, that this doctryne is of y^• leuen wherwith the woman of whom Cr••ste speketh in the gospell of saynt Matthew, dyd leuen all her whole dough and mele / that is to say of that leuen wyth whych not onely all the old holy doctours, but also y^• blessed apostles them selfe, & our sauyoure Cryste also hym selfe, leuene•• ••he brede of theyr doctryne, whych eyther in wo••des or wr••••ynge they taughte vnto the crysten f••oke. All which leuen Tyndale wold now take out, and leue vs the scrypture vnsauery. [ C]

Then rayleth he forth on and sayth, They destroy dayly the tr•••• preachers o•• yt.

Here let hym name whyche / and then s••all he name you suche as wolde destroy the leuen that I now rehersed you, whyche Cryste hath hym self put in our brede / suche as for the more parte wolde take his owne blessed body out of the sacrament, and leue there for our soules nothynge but vn∣sauory brede, or as Tyndale argueth yt starche in s••ede of brede. I wolde he wolde name them all that haue nowe be burned here in Englande, by the meane of his own bokes. As Baynam the iangler, and Hytton y^• Ioyner, & Teukes¦bery the purser, and B••yfeld thapos••ata, a worshyppefull sort o•• preachers. And yet shall Tyndale fynde none of all

[ A] these or any other that I haue herde of here, but that he eyther though he helde some of Tyndalys, yet he forsoke as false, some parte of Tyndals heresyes / or held as trew some such thynge besyde, as Tyndale wolde I wote well yf hym selfe were apposed, afferme to be very fals••. And of this yf Tindale dare deny it / I shall playnely proue both the partes. And therfore let Tyndale of those that h••ue ben burned here, chose whych he lyste / and name of th••ym all some one that he wyll call a trewe prechour / and than shall I proue you shortely, that yf that prechour be trew, Tyndale shall euyn by that prechour whom hym self wyll name for trewe, be playnely proued false.

Then rayleth he ferther on and sayth, They 〈…〉〈…〉ture from the laye people, that they sh••••••e not 〈…〉〈…〉.

[ B] I haue in the boke of my dyaloge proued all redy•• that Tyndale doth in thys poynt falsely belye the clergye / and that of trouth wyclyffe, and Tyndale, and frere Barns & suche other haue bene the onely cause for whych the scryp¦ture hath ben of necessyte kept out of the lay peoples han¦des / and that of late, specyally by the polytyke prouysyon and ordynaunce of our most excellent souerayne the kyn∣ges noble grace, not wythoute greate and vrgent causes manyfestely rysynge vppon the false malycyouse meanes of wyllyam Tyndale / for whych all the lay people of this realme, bothe the euyll folke that take harme by hym and the good folke that lese the profyte by hym•• haue grea•••• cause to lament, that euer that man was borne.

Then forth he goeth on ferther in hys lyes and sayth•• [ C] They haue put the storyes that sholde in many thynges 〈…〉〈…〉 waye as nygh as th••y coulde.

How proueth Tyndale thys lye of hys to be trewe •• let hym proue hys lye trewe in some one story that the chyr∣che hath put awaye / and then tell vs thys tale agayn. For they neuer put any awaye, but suche as were fayned go∣spels and fables / whyche the chyrche by the spyryte of god (whose gyfte Luther confesseth it to haue in that poynte / dyd euer more consyderately reiecte and auoyde / as it par¦tely appereth by saynt Hierom, concernynge the booke of the infancye of our sauyour. But fayne wolde Tyndale haue some such fals & fayned storyes remayne & taken for scrypture, to thende & entēt that as his h••resyes be by the very scrypture cōfuted and reproued, so they myght be by some such false scrypture mayntayned agayne & allowed.

But then rayleth Tyndale ferther yet, and lyeth agayn [ A] agaynst the chyrche and sayth, They haue corrupted the legende and lyues all moste of all sayntes.

who hath corrupted these legendes? let hym name some one and proue it, or els let hym leue of hys lyenge.

The legendes of sayntes lyues were wryten in dyuers tymes, as the sayntes in dyuerse tymed lyued, and in dy∣u••rs dyed / of whose lyues the chyrch none other knoweth, but as they fynde wryten or herde by good folke that knew them / sauyng that the spyryte of god by whych it knoweth and dyscerneth as saynt Austayn sayth & Luther hym selfe alloweth, whych is the very scrypture, shall not suffre it as that holy doctour saynt Thomas sayth, to erre and be de∣ceyued, in takynge for a saynt any dampned person, & ther¦by geue to goddes enemye the honour dew to hys frende. [ B] And by thys spyryt what so euer be wryten in the legende of any saynte, the chyrche dyscerneth yf any thyng were at any tyme in the good man a mysse / & so taketh it as a faute for the tyme and afterwarde amended / as we rede of some of Crystes owne apostles reported in the very gospell.

And the chyrche also doth not precysely bynde any man to the bylyef of euery thyng wryten in a legend, as though euery sayntes legende were parte of the scrypture of god.

But the thynge that Tyndale is offended wyth is this, that the legendes of sayntes testyfye theyr holy lyuynge & myracles that god shewed for them / wherof we fynde no le¦gende lyke that euer was wryten for any saynt, that in ob∣stynate heresyes departed & dyed out of y^e catholike chyrch.

Now confesseth Tyndale that all the sayntes legendes be not so corrupted, but he saith almost all. In which word [ C] he sayth inough for vs agaynst hym selfe. For let hym leue neuer so few, & tell vs which they be / and I dowte not then in good fayth, but that we shall in that fewe fynde thynges inough to proue hys heresyes false.

yet goth he ferther agaynste the chyrche and sayth, They haue fayned false bookes and put them forth, some in the name of saynt Hier••m, some in the name of saynt Augustyne, and in the name of saynt Cipryane, saynt Deonyse, and other holy men / whych are proued n••ne of theyrs, partely by style and laten, ••nd partely by autentyke storyes.

Here wolde he fayne good chrysten reders bryng vs all in dowte of all the olde holy doctours wurkes / bycause he were lothe by hys wyll, that any were of them all byleued.

[ A] But what great harme and losse were there in the mater, though it somtyme happed the boke of one good holy man to be named the boke of an other / as a boke of saynte Au∣stayn to be taken for a boke of saynt Ambrose? There were in such a mater no very great hurte yf it so happed in dede.

But to the entent that ye shall playnely perceyue that thys tale of Tyndale wherwyth he wold fayne blynde vs, shall nothynge serue for hys purpose / let hym take the bo∣kes of whyche hym selfe nothynge douteth, and euyn by y^t selfe same shall he fynde hys opynyons proued playne he∣resyes. Or ellys let Tyndale fynd vs in some of theyr trew bokes, whych he douteth not to be theyr owne in dede, let hym proue I saye by theym, that all those bokes be falsely put out in theyr names / in whych bokes he fyndeth yf they [ B] be trewe, all holy saintes agre agaynst hym selfe that good wurkes are merytoryouse, & that folkes do well to honour sayntes & theyr relyques, and go in pylgrymages, and to praye for all chrysten soules, & to honour the blessed sacra∣mēt, and that it is abominable for freres to wedde nonnes, & such other thynges lyke. Let Tindale I say fynde vs the contrary of these ••alys taught vs in theyr trewe bokes / or els let hym tell vs no more of hys own tale, but leue of his lyes lyke a fole,

And fyrst for the meane whyle, the boke in whych saynt Austayn maketh thys reason that we now talke of for the catholyke chyrch / Tyndale doth hym selfe cōfesse to be the very boke of saynt Austayne. And then doth this r••ason a∣lone playnely & perfytely proue this knowē catholyke chyr¦che, [ C] to be the very chyrche of Cryste / & consequently therby proueth Tindale that techeth the contrary, to be in the gret¦test poynte that any man lyghtely can fall in, & on whiche poynt most heresies do depēde, a very playne opē heretyke.

Now where he rayleth on and sayth, that Lyke wyse as the Iewys had set vp a boke of theyr Talmud to destroye the sense of the scrypture, so the chyrche hath set vp he sayth theyr Dunce, theyr Thomas, and a thou∣sand lyke draffe, to stablysse theyr lyes thorow falsefyeng the scripture: I can no scyll of the Iewes Talmud / but one thing I dowte not of, but y^• theyr Talmud in y^t it gaue false expesycyō was a late thyng at the comyng of Cryst, yf they had thē any such boke. And I dowte not but that the thinges that were fals therin, varyed from the consent of theyr olde exposytours, by whych the falshed of it myght be spyed & controlled and

be byleued the lesse. [ A]

But our doctours of these eyghte hundred yeres laste passed / all whome thys worthy wylde gose calleth draffe, do consente and agre wyth the olde holy doctours of the tother .vii hundred yere afore. And as well all those olde whom he dare not call but holy, as these other thousande whom he calleth draffe, drawe by one lyne all the mayny, to dreue Tyndale as a drudge of the deuyll out of Crystes chyrche for an heretyke / or ellys as I haue almost a thou∣sande tymes desyred hym, let Tyndale tell vs of all those old, which one taught it for lawfull a frere to wed a nōne.

Now where the wretche rayleth by name vppon that holy doctoure saynt Thomas, a man of that lernyng that the greate excellent wyttes and the moste connynge men [ B] that the chyrche of Cryste hath hadde synnes hys dayes, haue estemed and called hym the very floure of theology, and a man of that trewe perfyte fayth and crysten lyuynge therto, that god hath hym selfe testyfyed hys holynesse by many a greate myracle, and made hym honowred here in hys chyrche in erth, as he hath exalted hym to greate glory in heuyn: this gloryouse saynt of god wyth all other lyke, and those be of trouth all the whole many bothe olde and newe togyther, all whome therfore by the whole thousand on an hepe (for no fewer he nombreth them) doth thys de∣uelysshe dronken soule abomynably blaspheme, and cal∣leth them lyars and falsefyers, of scrypture and maketh them no better then draffe. But thys drowsy drudge hath dronken so depe in the deuyls dregges, that but if he wake [ C] and repente hym selfe the soner / he maye happe ere awghte longe, to fall into the messhynge fatte, and turne hym selfe in to draffe, as the hogges of hell shall fede vppon and fyll theyr belyes therof.

But when the beste hath thus blasphemed theym all / then wold he wynde out with a wyle, and make men wene that he ment but the doctours of these last eyghte hundred yeres / which were yet inough to laye such a raylyng knaue eyghte hundred myle depe in hell.

But syth he sayth a thousand lyke vnto saynt Thomas / he can not so escape, as though he met but saynt Bernard, saynt Bonauenture, saynt Ancelme, and suche other holy men of these eyght hundred yeres passed laste / but he must nedes take into them, all the olde holy sayntes of the seuen

[ A] hundred yeres byfore, as many as in suche thynges as Tyndale fyndeth fawte wyth expownyng the scrypture a∣gaynst the mynd of Tyndale, lyke wise as saint Thomas doth. But nowe to coloure his blasphemy / those wolde he sholde seme were none. And therfore ••o thus he sayth.

Tyndale.

And yf a man alledge any holy doctour agaynst them, they glose hym out as the do the scrypture, or wyll not here, or say the chyrche hath other wyse determyned.

More.

Lo good cristen reder this false pageaunt playeth Tyn¦dale in mo places then one / makynge as though that in the maters of his heresies the new doctours onely were a∣gaynste hym. And yet calleth he the new, the doctours of [ B] eyght hundred yere olde / and suche a new cote I wold he gate hym, and were oute his olde the whyle.

And then maketh he as though the old of the tother se∣uen hūdred yere byfore, were vpon his parte all the whole mayny, and cōstrued the scripture as he doth, and condēne these exposycyons that the new doctours of eyght hūdred yere olde and vnder haue made synnys.

And he sayth that agaynste all holy doctoures when he layeth any one agaynst vs, we glose hym out, or wyll not here hym, or say the chyrch hathe otherwyse determyned. Here must Tyndale vnderstand, that we neuer bynde hym to any thynge of necessyte vppon the saynge of any one do¦ctoure be he olde or yonge / but eyther by the comen faste fayth of the whole catholyke chyrch, growē as yt euer doth [ C] by the spyryte of god, that maketh men of one mynde in his chyrche, or by the determynacyon of the chyrche assem¦bled for such causes in the generall counsayles.* 1.28 And then the comen fayth of olde tymes byfore our dayes, we pre∣sume to be suche of lykelyhed / as we perceyue by the olde holy sayntes bokes that they were of them selfe. For other wyse then by bokes can we not knowe what the people by∣leued a thousand yere ago / but yf we myght talke with the men them selfe and aske theym.

Now yf Tyndale coulde laye vs for his purpose perad¦uenture, a worde of some one holy man / yt were no reason to bydde vs byleue that one byfore the cōsent of many, nor agaynste the comen bylyefe of the catholyque chyrche se∣cretely growen to consent by the holy spyryte of god, nor

agaynst the consent of the catholyque chyrche dyffynynge [ A] that poynt in a generall coūsayle thorow the same spyrite.

Now when we thus do / Tyndale can not say that we refuse to here that one holy man whome he shall peaduen∣ture alledge vs for his purpose. For in thus doyenge, we do here hym and folow hym. For euery one of all the olde holy men dyd euer submytte his owne mynde to the deter∣mynacyon of the catholyque chyrche, and bode euery man do the lyke.

And of them all we wote wel Tyndale fyndeth not one, that sayth contrary to thys. How be it thus myche haue I shewed you, rather to tell vs somwhat of the authoryte of the catholyke chyrche aboue any one holy man, then for a∣ny holy man that euer I thynke Tyndale shalbe able to brynge forth for the confyrmacyon of his heresyes. [ B]

But now to put this mater out of all dowte and qustey on, & that euery man may se whether Tyndale speke here in ernest as he thynketh, or ellys sayth all thys but for a shyft / let him now stande well to his tacklynge, and stykke styffely therto. Let vs concernynge the ryght construccyon of scrypture or corruptynge the trew sense therof, cōsydre some one heresye of his, for whyche the chyrch calleth hym heretyque, let vs se now.

we saye that yt ys abomynable for a monke or a frere to wedde a nūne / Tyndale sayth we saye wronge, and that a frere to wedde a nunne is very well done and lawfully. when we forbede yt, we lay the scrypture for vs. Uowe ye and pay yt. And saynt Poule spekynge of the wydows, whych after theyr chastyte vowed vnto god wold fall then [ C] agayne to maryage, sayeth that they hadde theyr damna¦cyō bycause they therin brake theyr formare faith. Tindale sayth we construe the scrypture wrong / and layeth scryp∣ture for his part the wordes of saint Poule. Better yt is to wedde then to burne. we say he construeth wronge. If we wolde alledge for vs thexposycyon of saynte Thomas, or saynt Anselme, or saynt Bonauenture, or saynt Bernard, or a thousan••e suche lyke to geth••r, that were alyue at a∣ny tyme this eyghte hundred yere / Tyndale wolde call yt our Talmude, and say they were all but draffe.

But then he sayth agayn that when he wyll alledge any holy doctour for his parte agaynste vs, we wyll glose hym out, or ellis we wyll not here hym, or ellys we wyll say that

[ A] the chyrch hath other wyse determyned.

Lo good reders here are we comen to gether Tyndale and we to the very point, where you shall se now how cour¦teysly I shall handle hym.

Let hym laye forth for his parte some one holy doctour, and I wyll here hym, and I neyther wyll glose hym oute nor saye the chyrche hath determyned otherwyse. For I wene the thynge was neuer taken for so doutefull, that euer the chyrche sholde haue neded. But though yt haue determyned yt / yet wyll I wynke there at and dyssy••ule yt, and wyll not saye, The chyrche hath other wyse deter∣myned yt.

And therfore I wyll alledge no suche thynge. But let Tyndale laye forth any one holy ••an for hys parte / and [ B] ye shall se what I shall yet more do ••or hym. This wyll I lo do for hym. All be it that I haue for my parte not on∣ly all the holy doctours of these ••yght hundred yeres, all whome Tyndale taketh fo•• d••affe / and all be yt that I haue also for my parte holy saynte Gregory, holy saynte Austayne, holy saynte Ambrose•• and holy saynte Hierome, foure the specyall doctoures of Crystes chyrche / and bysy¦des theym a great mayn•• that I coulde name holy do∣ctoures and sayntes, some of a thousande yere, some of xii. hundred, and some thertene, and some very farre a∣boue, and the yongeste aboue nyne hund••ed at the leste: let Tyndale I saye for his parte in the mater, lay me forth of all the hole doctours and sayntes no mo but ••uen som•• one / and I shall be content this ones for Tyndales sake [ C] to byleue that one agaynste all his felowes / whych I w••ll neuer do for no mannys pleasure I promyse you but ••••y•• onely for hys.

But now on the tother syde, yf he can not bryng so m••ch as one, as I wote very well he can not / and we can a∣gaynste hym brynge so many as hym selfe can ••ell w••ll ynough•• lette hym then for very shame confesse that he by∣lyeth the chyrche, when he sayth we wyll byleue no holy do¦ctoure. And then lette hym also for very shame confesse, that in his owne poynte at the leste bothe Luther and hym self, and all the shamelesse harlottes of theyr secte, do sham¦fully mysse constre the scrypture / and wyth some newe Tal¦mude of the deuyls deuyse and theyres, do corrupte and falsefye the very trew gospell of god.

This lo ye se well Tyndale muste grau••te at the laste / [ A] whyche yf he be so shamelesse as to denye yt styll, then wyll euery man y^t wytte hath, graunte & agre yt for hym. And then muste yt nedys folowe farther, that all theyre whole doctryne is but playne frantyke heresyes / and that theym selfes beynge so shamefull shamelesse vnreasonable ray∣lynge rybaudes, be men full vnmete for god to sende on his message in so great a mater, namely as to tourne the worlde wyth rybaudry fro synne.

To thys goodly passe hath Tyndale brought this pro∣cesse, and shewed vs here two solucyons, both one & both suche as ye se.

But nowe shall ye se hym playe the man in the thyrde. For thus lo he teacheth his dyscyples yet a thyrd answere, bycause he seeth well that the tother twayne were nought. [ B]

Tyndale.

Now therfore when they aske vs how we know that yt is the scrypture of god / aske theym howe Iohn̄ Baptyste knewe, and other prophetes whyche god s••••red ••ppe in all suche tymes as the scrypture was in capty••yte vnder ypocrytes. Dyd Iohn̄ byleue that the scrybes, pharysyes, and prestes, were the trew chyrch of god and had hys spyryte, and could not erre? who taught the egles to spye oute theyr pray? euen so the chyldren of god spye out theyr father / and Chrystes electes spye out theyr lorde, and trace oute the pa••hes ••f hys fe••e and folowe / ye though he go vppon the playne and lyquide water, whyche wyll receyue no steppe. And yet there they fynde out his ••ote / hy•• electe know hym, but the worlde knoweth hym not Iohn̄. 1. If the worlde know hym not, and thou call the worlde pryde, wrath, enuye, couetousnes••e, slowth, glotonye, and lechery, then our spyrytualtye knowe hym not. Chry¦stes shepe heare the voyce of Cryste Iohn̄. x. where the worlde of ypoc••ites as [ C] they knowe hym not, euen so the wolues heare not his voyce, but compell the scrypture to heare them and to speke what they lyste. And therfore excepte the lorde of Sabooth hadde lefte vs seed / we had ben all as Sodome and Gom¦mor sayde ••saias in his fyrste chapyter. And euen so sayd Paule in his tyme. And so euen say we in our tyme, that the lorde of the h••stes hath saued hym seed, and hath gathered hym a flocke, to who••e he hath geuen ••ares to heare and eyes to se that the blynde leaders of the blynde can not se / and an herte to vnderstande, that the generacyon of poysoned vypers can neyther vnder¦stande nor knowe.

More.

Lo good crysten reades, here maye ye clerely se what a strength this reason of holy saynt Austayne hath, agaynst whyche these heretikes are fayne to fynde so many shyftes

[ A] and euer the latter y^• lewder. For in thys answere Tyndale is yet ferther fallen in foly, thenne in any of those two that he made before, as fonde as they were bothe.

Theffecte of all thys answere is, that hym self and such other hys felowes as take opynyons agaynst the knowen catholyke chyrch, nede not to recognyse and knowlege the knowen catholyke chyrche for the very chyrche / and that the reason that saynt Austayne made therfore is not suffy∣cyent / that is to say, that sauynge for this catholyke chyrch they shold not haue knowen any trewth at all, not so mych as whyche were the trewe gospell and whyche not / & ther∣fore sholde not haue byleued the gospell saue for thys ca∣tholyke chyrche.

Thys reason sayth Tyndale is nothyng worth. For we [ B] that are electe sayth he and therfore are the very chyrch, do not knowe by the catholyke chyrche whych is the very gos¦pell and the trew scrypture / no more then dyd saynt Iohn̄ Baptyste and the other holy prophetes afore hym, knowe whyche was the trewe scrypture of god by the scrybes and pharyseys and the hygh prestes / whom they dyd not know¦ledge for the trewe chyrche, nor for those that had the spy∣ryte of god and coulde not erre. But hys felowes and he syth they be goddes electes and therfore the very chyrche, do knowe he sayth whyche is the gospell and whych is the very scrypture, by the same meanes by whyche saynt Iohn̄ Baptyste and the other holy prophetes before hym knewe the very scrypture of god / that is to wytte by the secrete in∣warde techynge of the spyryte of god / euyn in lyke wyse as [ C] the egle wythout the techynge of any other spyeth percey∣ueth & knoweth whyche beste or byrd is mete for hys meate and conuenyent for hys pray, by the secrete inwarde mo∣cyon and instincte of nature. And therfore by thys answere is that reason of saynt Austayne auoyded.

Here is lo good chrysten reader all thys answere & thys goodly solucyon, nothyng lefte out that hath any strength or force towarde the purpose•• but layed yet more dyrectely for hys purpose then Tyndale layeth it hym selfe / saue for leuynge out of the raylynge, wherof we maye peraduen∣ture somwhat touche by the way.

But fyrste consyder what blont sotletees & what folysh fallacys he bryngeth in thys answere. He wol•• brynge vs frome the poynte, wyth lykenynge the whole catholyque

chyrche of Cryste, that is to wytte the whole multytude of [ A] all trewe chrysten people of whyche our mater is, vnto the scrybes and the pharyseys, & the hygh prestes / as though they alone had ben the whole chyrche of the Iewes / or the hygh prestes of one town, the whole vniuersall synagoge.

Thys sotletye of Tyndale is as blont as a blocke, and to great for any mā to stūble at y^• hath any eyen in his hed.

Nor I nede not for this mater to defende that the whole synagoge could not erre in the choyce of the scrypture, nor that the whole synagoge was vntyll Crystes comynge the very chyrche of god neyther, nor to admytte as Tyndale here maketh it euery thynge to go lyke betwene the whole synagoge of Moyses and the catholyke chyrche of Cryste / bytwene whyche twayne, all be it that the tother was for that whyle the very chyrch in dede, there is yet in maner as [ B] great dyfference, as is bytwene the fygure and the thynge, the shadow and the body / as by many maner thinges farre dyfferent I myght well shew you / & among other no small dyfference bytwene them, in the thynge that most properly perteyneth vnto the poynt wherupon specyally dependeth the mater that we haue in hande, that is to wytte the ke∣pyng & preseruyng of the tone or the tother from all damp¦nable errour. In thys poynt I saye there is specyall dyssy∣mylytude bytwene the synagoge and the chyrche / for the promyses that Cryste hath made vnto the chyrche to sende hys holy spyryte in to it to lede it in to all trouth,* 1.29 and that it sholde dwell therin for euer,* 1.30 and hym selfe be permanent also therin for euer.

And therfore syth all these infallible meanes of techyng [ C] of the trowth & preseruacyon of the trowth, hath ben made vnto the chyrche of Cryst by hym that is hym selfe trowth & therfore can not lye / which promyses were neuer made a lyke vnto the Iewes: I nede not here as I saye no more answere Tindale, though in dede I haue done & wyll, then I nede in a maner yf he wolde put his ensamples by some other y^• were a fals chirch & were deceyued, & had fals scrip¦turs in dede. For it is inough to me that the chyrch of Crist hath that gyfte of god by his great promyses, that it shall euer be by him & his spyrit led into euery necessary treuth / of whyche one of the most necessary is, to knowe whych is the trewe scrypture. And it is inough agaynste Tyndale, that hys owne mayster Luther sayth that thys catholyke

knowen chyrche hath that gyfte. And it is a clere thyng to [ A] me and all chrysten men, that none other chyrche hath that gyfte but the catholyke chyrche / syth euery man seeth that the thynge is trewe whyche saynt Austayne sayth, that he had not knowen whyche had ben the very gospell, & ther∣fore had not byleued the gospell, saue for the catholyque chyrche.

And as that holy saynt sayth of hym selfe / so may euery man well saye of hym selfe, that by the catholyke chyrche he knoweth the scrypture / whyche no man can reken hym selfe surely to knowe by any other folke, then those whom he rekeneth surely to be the very true chyrche and the mes∣senger of god to tell it hym. For ellys maye euery fole se, that as he dowteth of the messenger, he must n••dys dowte [ B] of the message.

And therfore now lette vs loke on this answere of Tyn¦dale. I lerned not sayth he of the catholyke chyr•••• to know whyche is the trewe scrypture. Of what man than say we•• Of no man sayth he but euyn god hym selfe / and so sayth he do all my felowes that are the electes of god as I am. we lerne it now of our lorde hym selfe, as dyd of olde our other felowes that are gone before vs that were elected of god as we be, that is to saye saynt Iohn̄ Baptyste and the other holy prophetes before hym.

Here ye se good readers for aughte that euer I can do, Tyndale wylbe saynt Iohn̄ Baptystes felowe, and all his companyons felowes wyth the olde prophetes and wyth Chrystes apostles, and in some places wyth Chryste hym [ C] selfe also.

But thys wyll I promyse you, that yf saynt Iohn̄ Bap¦tyste and the olde prophetes, eche of the other prophetes in theyr tyme, had had wyth the Iewys the same thynges in questyon that we haue wyth Luther and Tyndale & these other heretykes in our tyme / that is to saye yf the Iewes had sayd that they had bysyde the scrypture some other tra¦dycyon delyuered them by Moyses, & preserued fro mouth to mouth wythout wrytynge / or that they had varyed to¦gyther vppon the ryght vnderstandyng of the scrypture, & then the Iewes wolde haue sayd ye know not whych is the scrypture but in that ye byleue vs / & then yf ye byleue vs in y^•, we tell you Moyses wrote vs this, why sholde you not as well byleue vs whē we tell you Mo••ses told vs this

If ye thynke we lye in the tone, ye maye thynke we lye in [ A] bothe, and then do ye knowe neyther nother. And also syth ye byleue vs that god hath gynen vs the trewe scrypturs, and vnto no man ellys so myche as the meane to knowe whych it is but onely by vs / why sholde ye not thynke that ha•••• ••••uen vs the ryght and trewe vnderstandyng therof for as farre at the leste as shalbe requysyte and necessary. If these had bene the varyaunces bytwene the Iewes and saynt Iohn̄ baptyste, or bytwen the Iewes and the prophe¦tes, as it is bytwene these heretykes and vs / and that the Iewes had then layed thus vnto them: yf that then saynt Iohn̄ and the prophetes coulde haue made no better an∣swere to them for theyr selfe, then Tyndale doth to vs now for hym selfe / surely than lyke as thys answere is such that we maye well laugh at hym, so had it be such as the Iewes [ B] wolde haue laughed at them.

But neyther were these poyntes the questyons then by¦twene theym (though some of thys was afterwarde in de∣bate bytwene Cryste and the pharyseys) and therfore these ensamples of saynt Iohn̄ and the prophetes be layed here to no purpose.

And also yf it had so bene / saynt Iohn̄ and those prophe¦tes had other answeres to haue made thē, suche as I haue shewed you in my syxte boke.

And fynally yf they wolde haue vsed thys answere that Tyndale here maketh, bothe for them and hym ••elfe / then yf the Iewes had laughed therat, and sayd how pro•••• you that god hath taughte you to knowe the trewe scrypture wythout vs / they had not onely the knowen approued ver¦tue [ C] of theyr lyuynge, but also myracles to proue them trew messengers. And thus had euery one of theym / and saynte Iohn̄ bothe in hys father before hys concepcyon, and then agayne at hys byrthe, and the olde prophecye fulfylled in hym, and the wytnesse of Cryste testyfyed for hym, & therby dyd•• all Crystes myracles bere wytnesse wyth hym.

These thynges had they for theyr answere, wyth which the Iewes well myghte and of reason muste, haue holden them selfe fully content and satysfyed.

And now in lyke wyse, for as mych as I knowe well y^e god is at hys owne lybertye, hauynge hys power absolute free & vnboūden vnto any maner of hys ordynary course / and therfore maye yf it please hym by some secrete inspyra∣cyon,

[ A] teache Tyndale, & Luther, and Huyskyn, & Swyn∣glius, and all the rable of those electe and specyall chosen heretykes, whyche wrytynges be the very scryptures of god, wythoute any teachynge of the catholyque chyrche: therfore yf Tyndale or Luther or any of all the remanaūt make by miracle any dew profe y^t god hath so done in dede, and that he so hath sent hym hyther for suche a newe pro∣phete to teache vs, he shall haue my plyable. For after that profe onys made / let hym tell my what he wyll and I wyll byleue hym tyll Antechryste come. For vntyll that tyme I truste heretyques shall do no miracles.

But as for yet in the meane season, syth I se none other man say so of hym selfe, as Tyndale saith of hym self & his felowes, and holy saynte Austayne sayth the contrarye of [ B] hym self: tyll Tyndale proue yt trew that he sayth of hym selfe, that he knoweth the trew scripture not by the chyrch but by specyall inspyracyon of god inspyred into hym selfe, and some suche other specyall chosen electes, such as no where in this worlde I wene god coulde haue chosen worse / Tyndale muste of reason geue vs leue to laugh at his prowde inuented folye. And I shall fynde hym foure suertyes very good and suffycyent, that at what tyme her∣after he proue hym selfe a trewe prophete, I shall vppon reasonable warnynge onlaugh agayne yt all.

But yet leste men shold take hym for a fole, yf he shold set forth suche a poynte so farre vnlykely, and therfore so farre vncredyble, wythoute any profe at all / he prou••••h yt at the leste wyse by thensample of a very goodly byr•• and [ C] kyng of all fowles, the plesaunt splayed egle. Forsyth that suche a byrd can spye his pray vntaught, whych he co••••d neuer do but by the secrete instyncte of his exceliet nature, to farre excedynge all other: yt muste nedys folowe perde that Tyndale and Luther in lyke wyse, and Huyskyn, and Swynglius, and suche other excellent heretykes, beynge in goddes fauour as farre aboue all the catholyke chyrche as an egle the ryche ryall kynge of all byrdes, is aboue a pore peny cheken / must nedes I say wythout any lernyng of any man, be tought to knowe the trew scrypture beyng theyr pray, to spoyle and kyll and deuour yt as they lyste, euen by the specyall inspyracyon of god.

But nowe ye se well good reders by thys reason, that saynte Austayne in respecte of these noble egles that spye

this pray wythout the meane of the chyrch, was but a sely [ A] pore cheken. For he confesseth playnely agaynst such hygh egle heretykes, that hym selfe hadde not knowen nor byle¦ued the gospell but by the catholyke chyrche.

How be yt is no great me••uayle, syth god is not so fa∣mylyare wyth suche symple chykyns, as wyth his gay glo¦ryouse egles.

But o••e thyng is there that I can not cease to meruayle of / syth god inspyreth Tyndale and such other egles, and therby maketh them spye this pray them selfe: how could yt happe that the goodly golden olde egle Martyne Lu∣ther hym selfe, in whose goodly golden neste thys yonge egle byrde was hached, sakked that inspyracyon. For he aloweth saynte Austayns saynge / & denyeth not but that hym selfe spyed and perceuyd this pray of the trew scryp∣ture [ B] of god, by beynge shewed yt by the catholyke chyrch / But if Tyndale saye that Luther therin lyeth, and that hym selfe wyth his felynge fayth fele more in Luthers fayth concernynge his bylyefe of the scrypture, than Lu∣ther doth hym felfe.

How be yt I wysse when our yonge egle Tyndale ler∣ned to spye this pray fyrste, he was not yet full fether••d, but scantly comē out of y^e shell / nor so hygh flykeryd in the aer aboue all oure heddes to ler••e yt of his father the olde egle heretyque / but was content to come downe here and walke on the grounde amonge other pore fowles the pore chykens of his mother thys knowen catholyke chyrche / of whom when he hath all sayde, he lerned to knowe thys praye.

And nowe takynge that for trouth (as treuth yt ys in [ C] dede though Tyndale lyst to lye and tell vs nay) when he hadde lerned of the chyrche whyche was the scripture / this wote I well he rekened not hym self at that tyme to vnder¦stand yt by specyall enspyracyon, For I can proue that he redde some commentours and holy doctours, that wryte exposycyons vppon yt. And to what purpose dyd Tyndale rede theyr bokes? to byleue hym selfe better then them all? If he so ment / then myghte he well haue spa••ed laboure. For he myghte haue byleued hym selfe and lette theym all alone.

Nowe yf he lyste to byleue hym selfe in thynges beynge yet but in questyon, where he seeth them vary and dowte:

[ A] yet muste he byleue them better, in thynges so playne and clere, that he ••eeth them therin all of one mynde agreed.

Now go me then yet agayn to ••rere Luther his mayster and his maystresse the nunne. wherin he can not say naye but they condemne hym all / and then shall ye se for lakke of other shyf••e this fayre egle byrde fowle befyle his nest.

But yet is yt a worlde to heare, what a goodly castell Tyndale byeldeth in the ayre on hygh vppon hys egles bakke. For when he hath told vs ones that the egle of him selfe wythoute any teachynge, spyeth out his praye / then goth he forth goodly wyth an hygh spyrytuall processe, & sayth, ••uen so the chyldren of god spye oute theyr father and mother

He meaneth of lykelyhed god for the father. But what chyrche meaneth he for his mother? For he can not spye [ B] out the vnknowē chyrch. And the knowē catholyke chirch whyche is the spouse of god in dede, and therfore by all the olde holy fathers comēly called the mother of all chrysten people, he wyll not know for his mother. And so I se well Tyndale meneth for his mother, some old mother mawde, some baudy chyrche of heretykes.

But then goth he ••orth wyth his floryshe on this fashy¦on. And Chrystes e••ec••e spye cute theyr lorde, and ••race oute the ••athes of hy•• fete and folowe / ye though he go vppon the playne and lyqui••e water, whyc•••• wyll ••eceyue no s••eppe. And yet there they ••yn••e out his fete.

These wo••des walke ••o very goodly by the herers eare, & they make a mā amased in a maner & somwhat to studye and muste when he hereth so straunge a tale tolde of suche holy electes, so spy••nge oute the fote where the soyle recey¦ueth [ C] no fotyng and steppynge, after the steppes of Cryste in the lyquyde water whyche can no steppes receyue, and therfore receyued the steppe of ••aynt Peter so depe, that he stepped in aboue the knees, and had stepte ouer the hedd•• to, electe as he was, had not his mayster holpe hym / but the water doth of trouthe receyue and kepe no steppes of any man, when the body passeth from yt / but yt receyueth shortely the steppes of euery man, ye and of euery woman to, but she gete her on a pace, wyth tryppe and go quykly and walke wonderouse lyghte.

But now yf a man in the redynge forgete not hym selfe wyth ••••••ynge, but consydre what he redeth and e••amyne yt well / he shall not so myche meruayle of Tyndales farre fette holynesse, as he shall wonder in a man wenynge hym¦selfe

so wyse, to se suche a folysh forgetefulnesse. [ A]

For where he sayth now that all thelectes ••••••ch out and folow the very steppes of Cryste euyn fote for fote, where neuer a steppe appe••eth: he hath hym selfe shewed vs in his other chapiters afore, that the electes thor•••• the ••aute of theyr frayle membres, though neuer into dedely synne, yet now and then among steppe into theft and aduowtry, treason, manslaughter, ••nd periury, and other such horry¦ble dedes. And these thynges lo many ryght honeste men teken not in theyr reason any folowynge of the steppes of Chryste, but yf Tyndales electe chyrche haue spyed oute any specyall gospell. For the catholyque chyrche in all the foure euāgelystes, spyeth not that Cryste stepped any such one steppe in all the dayes of his lyfe.

Some men wolde here loke that I sholde also laye to [ B] Tyndale, the steppes of frere Luther into the nūnys bed / whose steppes as theyre chyese electe other lewde electes folowe, very farre fro the steppes that Cryste stepped on the mount of caluary. ••ut let that passe for this onys, and here forth syr wyllyam Tyndales sermon.

Tyndale.

His electe know hym, but the world knoweth hym not Iohn̄. 1. If the world know hym not, and thou call the worlde pryde, wrath, enuye, couetousnesse, slowth, glotonye, and lechery, then our spyrytualtye knowe hym not.

More.

Those wordes of oure sauyour sauynge for sekynge of occasyon of raylynge, Tyndale bryngeth in here to very lytle purpose. But as he ly••teth here to rayle vpon the cler¦gye [ C] of the catholyke chyrch, so yf yt lyke hym now to turne the glasse and loke agayne vppon hym selfe and the holy spyrytuall heddes of hys owne sectes, Luther, Lambert, Huyskyn, and Swynglius, with all the ••able of heretikes vnder theyr rule / he shall fynde by the same texte and hys owne exposycyon therof, that amonge all theym neyther clergye nor laye knoweth Chryste / but yf rebellyon be no pryde, nor raylynge vppon theyr betters none enuye, nor manslaughter no wrath, nor robbery no couetyse, nor slug¦gyng a bed no slouth, nor dronkenesse no glotony, nor fre∣res luskyng a bed wyth nūnes no lechery. But he lyketh so well hys raylyng, that on he runneth therwyth and sayth.

Tyndale.

Chrystes shepe heare the voyce of Cryste Iohn̄. x. where the worlde of ypocri¦tes

[ A] as they know hym not, euen so the wolues heare not his voyc•••• ••ut 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the scripture to heare them and to speke what they lyst. And therfor•• e••••ept the lorde of S••booth hadde lefte vs seed / we had ben all as ••odome and ••om¦mor sayde ••sa••as in his fyrs••e chapyter. And euen so sayd Paule in his tym•••• And so e••en say we in ••ur tyme, that the lor••e of t•••• 〈…〉〈…〉 seed, and hath gathered hym a flocke, to whome he hath geuen 〈…〉〈…〉 and eyes to se that the blynde lea••ers of the b••ynde can not se, and an 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to vnderstande, that the generacyon of poysoned vypers can neyther ••••••••••¦stande nor knowe.

More.

Now good chrystē reders here hath Tyndale made the prophete Esaye, and saynt Poule, & our sauyour hym selfe as hys seruauntes and instrumentes / abusynge theyr ho••y wordes agaynste the catholyke chyrche of Cryste / whyche wordes they spake agaynst Paynims Iewes & heretykes.

[ B] Now the ipocrytes & wolues he calleth the catholykes / and the shepe and lambes those he calleth the heretykes / in thys is hys menynge very playne and open. But now the seed that god hath lefte them as he sayth, wyth whyche the god of hostes hath gathered hym / this flocke he meneth not. But syth ye knowe the flocke that he meneth, ye maye sone perceyue the menne of whose seed this flocke is fedde. Now loke then vpon the seed, wyth whyche the flocke of the catholyke chyrche hath bene alwaye fedde from age ••o age / & in y^• seed fynde ye saynt Ignat••us•• saynt Polycar•••• saynt Deonise, saint Ciprian, saynt Chrysostom•• saynt ••••¦syle, saynt Gregory Nazanzene, saīt Irene{us}, saint Euseby, saynt Athanase, saynt Hyla••y, saynt Cyryll•• saynt Sy••••••, saynt Leo, saynt Hierom, saynt Ambrose, saynt Austayne, [ C] saynt Gregory the pope, saynt Bede, saynt Berna••d•• saynt Thomas, saynt Bonauenture, saynt Anselme•• and ma••y an holy man mo of euery age synnys the apostles dayes / which were all lefte by god for seed in the knowē catholyke chyrch / whyche knowen catholyke chyrch they euer know∣leged for the very chyrch of Cryste, & toke alway for herety¦kes all that departed from it. And all these expouned thapo¦s••••es and euangelystes agaynst Luther & Tyndale, as the catholyke chyrch doth now. wherin yf Tyndale dare saye that I saye false / I shall yet onys agayn lyke a blynde har¦par y^• harpeth all on one stringe, fall to my rude refrayte, & synge hym myne olde song / wherin I haue so oftē prayed hym to tell vs then some one of thē all that euer accompted it lawfull & held it not abominable a frere to wedde a nōne.

Now the seed that hath all thys whyle ben sent vnto this [ A] flocke, whych Tyndale sayth that the lorde of hostes hath gathered hym togyther / haue ben Nicholas heretyke, Eu¦tiche heretyke, Ebyon heretyke, Ualenci{us} heretyke, Enno∣nomius heretyke, Arrius heretyke•• Marciō heretyke, Mō¦tanus heretyke, Manicheus heretyke, Heluidi{us} heretyke, Macedoni{us} heretyke, Iouinian heretyke, Pelagius here¦tyke, and Cestestinus heretyke, & of euery age some such a shrewd sort down vnto wicliffe heretyke, & Husse heretyke, & Luther heretyke, & Lambert here••yke, and Huyskyn he∣retyke, and Tyndale heretyke, & Barns heretyke, & many such ryffe raffe mo. Of all whych euery one cōtraryeth his felow in great articles of the fayth, and in thexposycyon of scripture, as by which euery one of thē wold seme to proue trewe his false cōtraryouse errour. And therfore as god y^• [ B] kynge of peace & vnyte, and very lorde of hostes also, sent the tother good seed vnto his knowen catholyke chyrche, & gathered and kepte it togyther, & togyther kepe it shall spyght of all heretykes and all the greate gates of hell: so is it not dowte but that the sower of dyssencyon and kynge of rebellyon, the prynce of pryde the great deuyll hym self, hath gather••d thys flocke to hym, and sent alway now and than such darnell seed and cocle to fede them.

But waye well yet agayn good reder that ryall ende of hys raylynge, wherin he sayth that the lorde of hostes hath to thys flocke of these heretykes gyuen eares to heare that the ipo∣cretyshe wolues can non heare, and eyes to se that the blynde leders of the blynd can not se, and an harte to vnderstande, that the generacyon of vypers can ney∣ther vnderstande ne knowe. [ C]

I nede not to putte you in mynde, that by the wolues & ipochrytes and blynde leders, he meneth the doctours and techers of the catholyke chyrche / and by the blynd that are mysse ledde into the dyche, the laye people of the same chyr¦che / & by the tother flocke y^t haue all these goodly gyftes of god, y^• scatered flocke of his vnknowē chirch of his electes, that byleue it lawfull for freres to wedde nonnes / among whō yet he nameth & men know many wel knowē knaues

Consyder nowe that oure present mater for whyche he bryngeth in all these wordes, and towarde the profe wher∣of he brought in the wordes of Cryste, that Crystes owne shepe here hys voyce, but the worlde hereth it not / is no thynge ellys but to shew, that Tyndals chyrche of electes

[ A] doth not knowe the scrypture by the techyng of the catho∣lyke chyrch, but by god hym selfe / as saynt Iohn̄ Baptyst and the prophetes dyd, and as the egle knoweth hys pray by the secrete instyncte of nature.

Consider than how farre he goth ferther now then euer he went before. For here in the ende he not onely cōcludeth for his heretykes, that they here Cristes voice / but also for the catholyke chyrch the contrary / that is to saye that the catholyke chyrche neyther can here, se, nor vnderstand, nor knowe the voyce of Cryst, that is to wytte the gospell and scrypture of god. And thus he bryngeth all his paynted processe to this poynt in conclusyon / that lyke as here be∣fore his mayster Marten and he, wolde that in the vnder∣standyng of scrypture, no man sholde stande to the fayth & [ B] exposycyon of the hole catholyke chyrche / but syth god as he sayth techeth hys electes hym selfe, and who they be no man knoweth of an other / but by Tyndale thorowe the fe∣lynge fayth euery man knoweth hym selfe, & euery man as Luther sayth byleueth for hym selfe, & yf he be deceyued y^• perell falleth also vpon hym selfe / euery man therfore in cō¦struynge the scrypture truste vnto hym selfe: as hytherto they haue thus sayd cōcernyng the vnderstandyng, so doth Tyndale now teche them in that that towcheth the know∣ynge whych is the scrypture, so that hereafter euery lewde body sholde be bolde to say that hym self is one of Crystes shepe, & therfore vnderstādeth his voyce, & can dyscerne his worde, & knoweth hym selfe whych is the very scrypture / [ C] as saynt Iohn̄ Baptyste dyd and the olde prophetes & the apostles of Cryst, and as the egle knoweth his pray by an onely inwarde mocyon. And then shall he thus call scryp∣ture what boke hym lyst, & refuse for scrypture what boke it please hym. And some of them begyn all redy gyuyng no credence to no man but yf it be some of theyr owne brayne, some of suche excellent holynes••e as all the world may per∣ceyue for electe and chosen sayntes, by raylyng, & rybaldry, rebellyon, debate, and stryfe, by bybbyng, & syppyng, & sop∣pyng, & quaftyng, and wurshypfull weddyng of nonnes.

And here lo the goodly conclusyon of Tyndals thyrde answere vnto saynt Austayns reason.

But now shall ye se the wylynes.

For where as all thys whyle he hath dyssembled, and wolde not be aknowen that thys reason was takē of saynt

Austayne, bycause he wolde at more lybertye lashe out his [ A] raylynge agaynste it: seynge yet that the thynge was so playne & open / he hath at the laste bythought hym, and re∣kened it beste to knowlege and confesse it. And now ther∣fore for hys fourth answere, herke I requyre you how pro¦perly the wyse man soyleth it.

Tyndale.

If they alledge saynt Austayne, which sayth I hadde not byleued the gospell excepte the authoryte of the chyrche had ••euyd me! I answere as they ab∣use that sayenge of the holy man, euen so they allege all the scrypture, and all that they brynge for them, euyn in a false sense. S. Augustyne before he was conuerted was an hethen man and a philosopher ••ull of worldly ••ysdome, vn¦to whom the preachyng of Cryste is but folyshnes, sayth Pa••l•• 1. Corin. 1. And he dysputed wyth blynde reasons of wordly wysdome agaynst the chry¦sten. Neuerthelesse the ernest ly••ynge of the chrysten accordyng vnto theyr [ B] doctrine, and the constant soferyng of persecucyon and aduersyte for theyr doc¦trynes sake, moued hym and stered hym to byleue that it was no vayne doc¦tryne / but that it must nedes be of god, in that it had such power with it. For it happeneth that they whiche wyll not heare the worlde at the beginnynge / are afterwarde moued by the holy conuersacyon of them that byleue. As Pe∣ter warneth christen wyues that had hethen husbandes that wolde no•• heare the treuth preched, to lyue so godly that they myghte wy••ne theyr hethen husbandes with holy conuersacyon•• And Paul sayth, How ••nowest thou chry¦sten wyfe, whether thou shalt wynne thyne hethen husbande•• with holy conuer¦sacyon ment he. For many are wonne with godly lyuynge / which at the fyrst ether wyll not heare nor can not byleue. And that is the authoryte that. S. Augustyne ment. But yf we shall not byleue tyll the lyuynge of the spyrytu¦alty conuerte vs / we be lyke to byde longe inough in vnbylyefe.

More. [ C]

Lo good chrysten readers, here haue you Tyndals an∣swere. And now let vs fyrste suppose that in thys answere he tolde vs trewe, that saynt Austayne ment as he sayeth here he dyd, & that he byleued the chyrche but for the good lyuynge and vertuouse conuersacyon that he thenne sawe therin: yet was at the leste wyse the chyrche that he ment of, the knowen catholyke chyrche, and not an vnknowen chyrche of electes. And so is Tyndale shortely quyte ouer∣throwen therin to.

Also though Tyndale sayd here trew of saynt Austayns mynde, that he byleued the chyrche bycause they were then good men: yet standeth that order styll, that he fyrste byle∣ued the catholyke knowen chyrche, and fyrste knewe and

[ A] knowleged and byleued it, and then of it and by it receyued and knewe and knowleged and byle••ed the scripture to be the very word of god. And so is Tindale styl ouerthrowen.

ye sayeth Tyndale that is trew / but he was broughte into the bylyefe of the chyrche that then was, by the good vertuouse leuynge that then was in yt / as saynte Peter counsayled the crysten wynes wyth crysten lyuynge and vertuouse conuersacyon, to wynne theyr vncristen husban¦des vnto crystendome. But yf we (sayth Tyndale) shulde not byleue tyll the lyuy••ge of the spyrytualty conuerte vs, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 be lyke to abyde lo••ge ynough ••n vnbylyefe.

well. Suppose fyrste that Tyndale sayde trewe, yet fo∣loweth yt at the last y^• saynt Austayne was none of those holy electes, those gaye golden egles, that be taughte in∣wardely [ B] wythout any outwarde teachynge.

But now wolde I that Tyndale here rehersed vs what was the lyuynge, and whyche were the vertuouse that so flowred in the chyrch, that was in saynte Austayns tyme. Fyrst as for persecucyon that Tyndale speketh of / y^e catho¦lyque chyrch had not in his tyme any greater persecucyon by heretykes in Affryke, then yt hadde now these late yeres in Almayne / and I wene as many good chrystē men haue constantely su••••red harme, and as myche to, in Sa••o••ye, and Suycherlande, and some other partes of Germany, by the Lutherane heretykes, and the Huyskyns, & Swyn¦glianes, as there dyd in hys tyme in Affryque by the Do∣na••ystes.

Then as for the other vertues and maners that then [ C] were in the chyrche, for whyche saynte Austayne dyd as Tyndale sayth byleue yt / and wolde not yf he nowe lyued and were vncōuerted, so receyue and byleue the scrypture by the chyrche: now wolde god that Tyndale had reher∣sed those maners and those vertues, that we myght ther∣by perceyue whether saynte Austayne yf he were nowe a∣lyue, and suche as he was byfore hys conuersyon & wolde not be conuertyd by the catholyke chyrche, were lykely to to be conuerted by the conuersacyon of theyrs, by the holy lyuynge of Luther, and Lambert, and Huskyn, and suche a rable of wedded munkes and freres.

And yet yf he so were / then muste yt be ye wote well a knowen chyrch. For of an vnknowen chyrche could he not be moued, nor take none authoryte / and so were Tyndals

chyrche of his vnknowen electes clere gone agayn, for any [ A] fortherauns of saynte Austaynes fayth.

And therfore muste we then wyt of hym farther, whyche of all his chyrches, which of his false sci••matyke sectes, were yt that sholde do thys dede and wynne vs in s••ynte Au∣stayn, that shuld be suche a trew doctour of trew y^• chyrch.

There is good reders a boke whyche saynte Austayne wryteth agaynste heretyques of his owne tyme, that dys∣praysed then the lyuyng of the crysten people of the catho∣lyke chyrch, extollyng the holy vertuouse lyuyng of theyr owne secte / by whyche we may well se y^e heretykes had yet at that day a right fayre visage of very vertuouse lyuyng, and preached not theyr heresies with defence of open sham¦full lechery, as these bestely heretykes do nowe. But saynt Austayne, all be yt he coulde not say naye, but that in the [ B] chyrche there were as well badde as good: yet descrybeth he partely the vycyouse lyuynge and partely the ypocrysy to, that was then amonge those hcretyques, and bysydes that the vertuouse lyuynge that then was amonge many good folke of the catholyke chyrche.

And what vertues be those? surely euen the same that the knowen catholike chyrch teacheth now, and which ver¦tues in this catholyke chyrch many a good man both spy∣rytuall and temporall yet vnto this daye god be thanked very well kepe and obserue / howe be yt the fewer a great many, syth these deuelyshe heresyes came vppe.

And this dare I well promyse Tyndale, let hym rede ouer that boke when he wyll, in whyche saynt Austayn re¦herseth the vertues y^• he prayseth in the chyrche / & when he [ C] hath well and perfytely redde yt onys ouer, or yf he lyste hardely twyse or thryes yt can be no losse of his tyme / and this I say wyll I gladly geue hym wyth yt, let hym take myn yie for an apple, yf he fynde yt in all the boke cōmen∣ded for any great vertue, a frere to wedde a nunne.

And therfore syth Tyndale alloweth saynte Austayne and the vertues that then were in the chyrch / I wyll bynd hym to none other, but that that he now prayseth and com¦mendeth hym selfe. Lette hym no more but byleue saynte Austayne / and then shall he byleue the sacramentes / and go to shryfte, whych he now calleth the deuyls inuencyon / and shall take absolucyon, whyche he now calleth whyste∣lynge / and shall gladly do penaunce, that he nowe calleth

[ A] synne / and shall byleue the knowen catholyke chyrche and knowlege yt for the chyrche of cryste, and shall take theym all for heretykes that departe oute therof, and shall byleue surely y^• determynacyon therof, and take them all for here∣tykes that wyll holde the contrary / and then wyll he shaue his crowne agayne, and saye matens and masse after the olde fashyon, and putte of his knaues cote and ware an honeste man / and then he wyll aduyse frere Luther to lye no more wyth nunnes.

Hytherto good chrysten reder haue I so reasoned thys poynte of saynt Austaynes wordes, as though Tyndales answere vnto them were trew. And then yf they so were in dede / yet what good effecte hath Tyndale therupon ye per¦ceyue. For though it so were in dede, yet were Tyndale ne¦uer [ B] the nere / but alway wolde yt folowe as I haue shewed you, that the very chyrche must nedes be a knowen chirch, and neyther any chyrche of v••knowen heretykes, nor any knowen chyrche of all these heretykes neyther / nor fynal∣ly none other but onely thys comen knowen catholyque chyrche.

But nowe good reder, for as myche as Tyndale sayth that the chyrche doth falsely take saynt Austayne and con¦trary to hys mynde, euen in lyke maner as he sayeth they do all the scrypture, to blynde and bygyle the people with: we be very gladde he sayth so. And as Tyndale hath here hym selfe put these wordes of saynte Austayne for ensam∣ple, how the chyrche vseth yt sel••e in thexposycyon of scry∣pture / so shall we be very well content ye take yt / and that [ C] by this one poynt ye may perceyue and iudge, whyther the chyrche or Tyndale expowneth here saynt Austayne more trewly / and therby iudge lykewyse as Tyndale here wold haue you, both the chyrch and hym in the trew or the false expownynge of all the scrypture of god, where eyther part sayth the tother expowneth wronge.

Now saye we then that where Tyndale sayeth that the cause why saynt Austayne dyd byleue the ch••rch, was by∣cause they were then good men / Tyndale doth but dyuyse that tale vppon his owne, hed to seke some euasyon where he myght gete oute. For bysydes that yt appereth playne by saynte Hierome, that there were at that tyme the same vyces in the catholyke chyrche that are now, all saue wed¦dynge of folke that hadde vowed chastyte / I saye that in

the place where saynte Austayne wryteth those wordes, ••e [ A] speketh neuer a worde that the vertuouse lyuynge o•• ••he chyrche caused hym to byleue it, nor nothyng in that place speketh of the vertuouse lyuynge of the chyrche, nor of t••e, persecucyon / but in many other places he confes••eth, that the chyrche then was as we se yt nowe is, a congregacyon and company of both good and badde.

And that in this boke wryten agaynst Cresconi••s, he alledgeth that holy martyr saynt Cypriane, and r••hers••••h his wordes wryten in hys pystle that he wrote vnto Maxi¦mus / by whyche he sheweth that men maye not leue the chyrche bycause of the euyll f••••••e that be therin. For in the chyrche there be both good and badde, as there are in the feld of god wherof Cryste speketh in the gospell both good corne and cocle / and in a great house as saynt Poule saith [ B] to Timothe there are not only golden vessellis and syluer,* 1.31 * 1.32 but also trene and erthen.

These wordes of holy saynte Cypriane doth holy Au∣stayn reherse and approue / wherby mē may well perceyue, that both saynt Cypryane and saynt Austayn to, dyd take the chyrch for none other then the knowē catholyke chirch / and knewe that chyrche ryght well, not for a companye of onely good men, but of go••d and badde bothe, and so be they s••yll what euer Tyndale say.

But yet this one thyng dyd both saynt Cyprian & saint Austayne say, that of all ••hat departe oute of this chyrche, there is not one good nor can not be good, vntyll in harte they resorte therto agayne. And for that cause is yt called holy chyrche / not for that euery man is holy that is in yt, [ C] but for that many suche be in yt, and none can be holy that wyll not be in yt.

And to thentent that ye may the more clerely perceyue, that Tyndale here to blynd vs wyth, deuyseth of his own hedde this euasyon, that saynte Austayne byleued not the chy••che in his days but bycause of theyr constaunce in per¦secucyon and theyr holynesse of lyuynge: who so loke vp∣pon the place where he wryteth those wordes, that is to wit¦in his boke agaynste the pystle of Manicheus theretyke, of whose secte saynte Austayne hadde ben onys hym selfe / wythout any cōsyderacyon of persecucion or holy lyuyng, layeth other consyderacyons that made hym know and by¦leue the catholyke chyrche of hys dayes / that is to wytte

[ A] the consent of the catholyke chrysten nacyons / and that he had the catholyke chyrche in authoryte, fyrst for the myra∣cles that were shewed therin / and that therupon his fayth and credence geuen therunto, was nurysshed and fos••ered wyth hope encreaced wyth cheryte, and confermed with an¦tiquite. There helde hym he sayd in the gyuynge of fayth and credence to the catholyke chyrche thys thynge also, that is to wyt that he sawe the successyon contynued in the see of saynt Peter, to whom our lorde had after his resur∣reccyon cōmytted the fedynge of his shepe sayth saynt Au∣stayne, from saynt Peters dayes vnto hys owne tyme. And fynally euyn the very name he sayth of catholyke, that is to say vniuersall, gaue toward the gettyng of his credence the catholyke chyrche great anthoryte / whych name of vni¦uersall [ B] the same chyrche alone amonge so many heresyes hadde so obtayned, that where as euery secte of heretykes wold fayne be taken for catholykes, yet yf a straūger shold come amonge them & aske where were any catholyke chyr∣che that he myghte go to, there were none heretyke y^• durst for shame bryng hym to any chyrch or any house of theyrs.

These causes ••o ••ayed saynt Austayne, all whyche cau∣ses are in the catholyke chyrch styll / these he layd I say for the authoryte of the catholyke chyrch, for whyche he sayde he gaue so fast fyrme & vndouted credence to it, that for y^• authoryte therof he byleued the gospell at the teching ther¦of. And these causes he layd vnto the heretykes•• as ••••u••es that he thought shold of reason moue them therto also.

And yet to the entent ye shall the more clerely se•• how•• [ C] Tyndale wolde wyth hys lyes blynde vs / and what ferme credence saynt Austayn gaue to the knowē catholyke chyr∣che wythout mencyon of eyther persecucyon or vertu••use lyuynge, as Tyndale wolde here make vs wene: I sh••ll translate and reherse you here saynt Austayns owne ••••••∣des wryten in the fyfth chapyter of hys sayd boke agaynst the pystle of Manicheus. In whych place saynt Austayne dysputeth agaynst the heretykes of that secte, and proueth them, that lyke as he that byleueth the catholyke chyrche hath good suretye of hys bylyefe, & is able to shewe good causes of his bylyefe all thoughe there were no scrypture wryten / so on the tother syde, the Manycheys bycause they byleued not the catholyke chyrche, and lykewyse who so euer byleueth it not can neuer proue any thynge for theyr purpose, neyther to hym that byleueth not the scrypture,

nor yet vnto hym neyther that doth byleue the scrypture. [ A] And therfore saynt Austayn hauyng rehersed before what thynges be suffycyent to make hym byleue the catholyke chyrche bysyde the scrypture / doeth nowe in thys chapyter dyspute wyth them, & shew them that they & all suche here∣tykes as go fro the fayth of y^e catholyke chyrch, can neuer proue theyr parte good, neyther to hym that refuseth the scrypture, nor to hym that byleueth it. And therin lo thus he sayth.

Let vs se therfore what Manicheus techeth me / & spe∣cyally let vs consyder the selfe same booke that ye call the pystle of the fundacyon, in whyche is conteyned almoste all that ye byleue. when that same pystle was redde vn¦to vs at that tyme wrechys that we were, we were wont to vowe downe and say Amen. Thus begynneth the pystle. [ B]

Manicheus the apostle of Iesu Chryst, thorow the pro¦uydence of god the father / these be the holsome wordes issuynge out of the euer flowynge founteyne of lyfe.

Now I praye you and it please ye herken pacyentely what I shall aske you. I byleue not thys man to be the a∣postle of Cryste. I beseche you be not angry nor begynne to chyde / ye knowe well that I am determyned nothynge rasshely to byleue that ye bryng forth.

I aske you therfore who is thys Maniche{us}•• ye answere me y^• apostle of Crist. I bileue it not. Now haue ye nothing that ye can eyther saye or do. ye promysed to teche me and make me to know the trewth, & now ye wolde make me by∣leue the thyng that I know not. ye wyll peraduenture rede me the gospell, and labour to proue me the persone of [ C] Manicheus by the wordes of the gospell. But now yf I shold fynde you out some man that yet byleued not the gos¦pell, what coulde ye then say for Manicheus, to hym that wolde saye vnto you I byleue not the gospell. Now as for me, I wold not byleue the gospell but yf the authoryte of the catholyke chyrche moued me therto. Thenne syth I obeyd them in that they bode me byleue the gospell / why shold I not byleue them in that they bydde me byleue not. Maniche{us}. wyll ye now that I byleue the catholike chirch or not? Chese now your selfe whyther parte ye wyll / yf ye byd me byleue the catholyke chyrch they be those that byd me y^• I sholde not in any wyse gyue any credēce vnto you. wherfore byleuyng them, I can in no wyse byleue you.

[ A] Then on the tother syde, yf ye wolde saye to me, byleue not the catholyke chyrch: then can ye not of reason bynde me by the gospell to byleue Manicheus, syth I had not by¦leued the gospell it selfe but for the catholyke chyrche.

Now yf ye wolde then say to me, thou dydest well to by∣leue the catholyke chyrch in that they cōmēded the gospel, but thow doste not well to byleue them in y^• they dysprayse Manicheus: wene ye me so very a fole, that tellyng me no cause wherfore I shold byleue what so euer ye byd me, and byleue in no wyse what ye lyste forbyd me. yet mych more reasonably & more cyrcūspectely do now I, in that I de∣departe not from y^e catholyke chyrche whych I haue onys byleued, & translate my selfe to you, but yf that ye can fyrst not bydde and cōmaund me byleue, but openly and clerely [ B] som what make me knowe, wherfore good reason wolde I shold byleue. wherfore yf ye wyll shew me any reason, then let the gospell alone. For yf you take you to y^e gospel / then wyll I take me to the chyrch, by whose cōmaundement I byleued the gospell / and then by the commaundement of the same chyrche, I must in no wyse byleue yo••.

Now yf it so were that ye coulde by possybylyte fynde in the gospell somwhat, that coulde clerely proue Mani∣cheus to be Crystes apostle / then must it folow theruppon (yf I sholde byleue you therfore) that I must then not by∣leue the catholyke chyrche 〈◊〉〈◊〉 byddeth me byleue not you. And then agayn yf I 〈◊〉〈◊〉 not the chyrche, then can I not byleue the gospell, syth I byleue the gospell for the chyrche / & so could nothynge serue you that ye shold bryng [ C] of the gospell. And therfore yf ye ••rynge no clere thyng out of y^e gospell to proue Manicheus Crystes apostle, I must rather byleue the catholyke chyrche then you.

And on the tother syde, yf ye found for Manicheus any manyfest thynge in the gospell / then coulde I neyther by∣leue the chyrche nor you / not the chyrche bycause they lyed to me of you when they told me ye were not to be byleued, nor you bycause ye proue your parte but by that scripture, which scrypture I byleued not but thorow byleuyng them whom I ••ught not to byleue, bycause they prou•• them self false in makyng a lye of you. But god forbyd that I shold not byleue the gospell / for byleuyng the gospell I can not fynde how I shold byleue you. For among all the apostles names y^• are there found, y^e name of Maniche{us} it not foūd.

Lo good chrysten reders here se ye playnely that Tyn¦dale [ A] is tellynge vs that saynt Austayne, where he sayth he wolde not byleue the gospell it selfe sauynge for the autho¦ryte of the chyrche, dyd mene therin nothyng ellys, but the good lyuynge that then was in the chyrche, and theyr con∣staunce in persecucyō ledde hym to byl••ue them in techyng whyche was the scrypture: it well appereth I say by saynt Austayns owne wordes, that the chyrche truely taketh his wordes, and Tyndale vntruely glos••th them. For neyther doth saynt Austayne in this arguyng reproue the lyuyng of the Manycheise, nor extolle and commende the lyuynge of the catholyke chyrche / but in suche wyse maketh his ar∣gument, as it both maye and muste serue for the knowen catholyke chyrche agaynste all kyndes of heretykes, what so euer the lyuynge be of the tone parte or the tother. And [ B] this argument is made more stronge now by thre partes, than it was whan he made it. And syth the chyrche shall as Cryst promysed neuer fayle / the argument of saynt Au¦stayne for some of the causes consydered,* 1.33 shall euery daye be strenger for the chyrche then other, as longe as y^e world shall stande.

For saynt Austayne alledgeth there for one of the cau∣ses that moued hym, the contynuaunce of the chyrche, whi¦che than had contynued in s••••cessyon aboute the space of foure hundred yere. How 〈◊〉〈◊〉 is that stronger now after the contynuaunce in succ••••••••••n the space of .xv.C. yeres? And as for myracles wyth whych as saynt Austayne sayth they that byleue not be fyrst comenly moued to gyue fayth [ C] and credence / the comon knowen catholyke chyrche neuer lacketh, nor no chyrch of heretykes neuer hath.

And thus I saye good reders, ye may perceyue by that place in saynt Austayne whyche I haue rehersed you, and by hys other foure chapyters immedyate before, that the mynde and entent of saynt Austayne is playne, that god of his goodnesse offereth men occasyon, and by good and sub¦stancyall causes helpeth them that are wyllynge fyrste of all to knowe the trewe chyrche•• of whyche euery trewe pre∣cher is a member. And then lyke as god vseth myracles & dyuers other meanes, by whyche meanes his•• helpe & grace maketh the well wyllyng person to percey••e & know why¦ch•• is his very chyrch: so doth he after vse the same chyrch for a ••eane, by whych he maketh a mā ••now whych is the

[ A] very scrypture / ye and ouer that in thynges necessarye for saluacyon, whych is the very sense and the trew vnderstā¦dynge of the very scrypture•• ye and when god hath vsed the knowledge of the chyrche, to make a man know why∣che is the scrypture / then is the same scrypture a very sure meane to conferme him the faster and y^e more surely, in the knowlege & byliefe of the chyrch / he shall so surely therin se proued the thynge that he before perceyued and byleued, that the catholyke chyrche is the ve••y chyrche.

An this is the trew order and the playn ••••tente and me¦nynge of saynt Austayne, as yt playnely appereth as well in his byfore remembryd boke, as in the worke of his con¦fessyons in the order of his owne conuersyon / and very playnly in a pystle of his agaynst the Donatystes, whych [ B] is in his boke of pystles .cxlviii. In whych saynt Austayn playnely sheweth that the knowen catholyke chyrche is playnely by scrypture proued the very chyrche / and that in all doutes and questyons, euery man muste stande vn∣to that ende, whych shall be eyther by the same chyrch de∣termyned, or by the generall custome of the same chyrche approued.

Saynte Austayne also in his thyrde boke agaynste the pystle of Permen••ane sayth in playne wordes, that there is no suertye of any vnyte but yf the chyrche be declared and knowen / whyche accordyng to goddes promyse sette vppon an hyll,* 1.34 can in no wyse be hydden / and therefore muste yt nedes be, that the chyrche is thorowe the wo••lde knowen. And none is nor neuer was thor••we the worlde [ C] knowen for the chyrche of Chryste, but onely the knowen catholyke chy••che.

Saynte Austayn also in his pystle to Uincentius, why¦che pystle is in order the .xlviii, sayth in this wyse expresse¦ly•• How can we byleue by the scrypture of god, that Cryst is comen into the worlde and knowen, yf we byleue not therby that the chyrch is also manyfest and knowen? lette any man who so wyll knyt and put in agaynste the playn trowth, all the hokes and handles that he can / let hym cast afore oure yien what mystes of wyly falshed that he lyst / and when he hath all done, loke how he is accursed, that wyll tell vs that Chryste neyther veryly dyed nor veryly rose agayn / euen lykewyse accursed shall he be, that wyll tell vs for the very chyrche any other then this comen ca∣tholyke

chyrche of all crysten nacyons. [ A]

Lo good reder Tyndale sayde he••e before, y^• we wolde not byleue saynte Austayne nor any of the olde holy doc∣tours, as though hym self wolde. And now haue ye hard saynte Austayne / whome yf Tyndale wyll byleue, all our questyon is decyded. For he sayth as we saye, that the co∣men catholyque chyrch is the very chyrch. And yf he wyll not byleue hym / then let hym leue lyke as he is to lay hys owne faute to other folke.

Good crysten reders yf my purpose were here to proue you by the consente of the olde holy doctours of Chrystes chyrche, that the knowen catholyque chyrche is the very chyrche: the nomber of those authorytees wolde fyll an hole boke. But my purpose is here onely to answere Tyn¦dale and confute his solucyon, wyth whych he falsely glo¦seth [ B] the wordes of saynte Austayne, that sayth he byleued not the scrypture yt self but for the authorite of the chyrch. wherin I haue playnely proued you by saynt Austaynes owne wordes, Tyndales wordes shamfully false, as well in the pryncypall purpose, as in that he layeth falsely to the chyrche that the chyrche doth abuse the sayng of saynt Austayne.

And therfore syth he sayth that they mysse construe and falsely alledge all the scrypture, euen in lyke maner wyse as they do saynte Austayne / whyle ye playnely se that in this poynte whyche Tyndale putteth for the sample, the chyrche sayth trewe and hym selfe lyeth: good cause haue you to byleue this lewde felow in the remanauntlyke.

But now shall ye se Tyndale deuyse you suche a shyft, [ C] that contrary to all his shyftes afore, he shall clerely con∣fesse hym selfe that he both knoweth and byleueth the scry¦pture by the catholyke chyrch. For now commeth he to his fourth solucyon, wyth whyche he clene destroyeth all the tother thre that he made vs byfore. Lo thus he sayth.

Tyndale.

And when they aske whether we receyued the scrypture of them / I an∣swere that they whyche come after, recey••e the scrypture of them that go byfore. And when they axe whether we byleue not that yt is goddes worde by the reason that they tell vs so / I an••were that there are two maner o•• faythes, an hy••torycall fayth and a felynge fayth.

More.

Lo good reder here shall ye se that the thynge where a∣bout

[ A] he hath bombled all this whyle, that is to proue that he knoweth not the scrypture by the chyrche, and to proue that he byleued yt not to be the scrypture of god, bycause the chyrche so tolde hym, perceyuynge at lengthe that all his answers were weke feble and faynte, and that none of thē all wold stand / he is dreuen at the last for very very shame to confesse some parte of the trouth, & yet for shame also to denye a nother parte. For by thys dystynccyon of these two faythes, hystorycall fayth and felynge fayth•• he wyll in the ende tell vs that ones he knew the scrypture by the chyrche in byleuynge the chyrche / but that was but an hystorycall fayth. How be yt he well saye that now he ney∣ther knoweth it nor byleueth it by the chyrch, but by the in∣warde inspyracyon and teachynge of god hym selfe.

[ B] And where as his mayster and he many tymes mokke the doctours of the chyrch, for vsyng of trew dystynccyōs in thynges where they be requysyte / hym selfe hath here de¦uysed an euasyon by meane of a dystynccyon made by Me¦lancthon / in whyche destynccyon as in a myste he weneth to walke away. But I truste ye shall se the myste breke vp so fayre, that he shall not escape so. Lo thus goth he forth there wyth.

Tyndale.

The hystorycall fayth hangeth of the trewth and honestye of t••e te••••er, or of the commen fame and consente of many. As yf one to••de me that t••e Turke had wonne a cytye, and I byleued yt moued wyth the honesty•• o•• t••e man. Now yf there come a nother that semeth more honeste, or that hath ••••t¦ter pe••suasyōs that it is not so / I thinke immediatly that he lyed and •• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 [ C] fayth agayne. And a felynge fayth is, as yf a man were there ••r••sent 〈◊〉〈◊〉 yt was wonne, and there were wounded, and had there loste all that he ••a••, an•• were taken presoner there also. That man shulde so byleue, t••at a•••• t••e worl••e coulde not turne hym from his fayth. Euyn lykewyse yf my mot••er had blowen on her fynger and tolde me that the fyre wolde burne me / I sh••ld haue byleued her wyth an hystorycall fayth, as we byleue the s••ory••s of the worlde, bycause I thought she wolde not haue mokked me. And so I shulde haue done / if she had told me that the fyre had ben cold and wold not haue bur¦ned. But as sone as I had put my finger in the fyre I shulde haue beleued / not by the reason o•• her, but wyth a felynge fayth / so that she coulde not haue persuaded my afterwarde the contrary. So now wyth an hystorycall fayth I may byleue that the scrypture is godds by the teachynge of them / and so I shulde haue done though they had told me that Robben hod had ben the scry¦pture of god. Whych fayth is but ••n opynyon, and therfore abydeth euer frute¦lesse

and fauleth awaye, yf a more gloryouse reason be made vnto me, or yf [ A] the preacher lyue contrarye.

But of a felynge fayth yt is wryten Iohn̄. vi. They shall be all taughte of god. That is, god shall wryte yt in theyr hertes wyth his holy spyryte. And Paule also testyfyeth Roman. viii. the spyryte bereth recorde vnto oure spy¦ryte, that we be the sonnes of god. And thys fayth is none ••pynyon, but a sure felynge / and therfore euer frutefull. Neyther hangeth yt of the ho••estye of the preacher but of the power of god and of the spyryte. And therfore yf all the preachers of the world wolde go about to persuade the contrary, yt wold not preuayl / no more then though they wolde make me byleue the fyre were colde / after that I hadde put my fynger therin.

Of this ye haue an ensample Iohn̄. iiii. of the Samaritanyshe wyfe, whych left her pytcher and went into the cytye and sayde / come and se a man that hath tolde all that euer I dyd / is he not Cryste? and many of the Samaryta¦nes byleued bycause of the saynge of the woman, how that he had told her all [ B] that euer she dyd / and went oute vnto hym and desyred hym to come in / whych fayth was but an opynyon and no fayth that could haue lasted or haue brought out frute / but when they ha••de herde Cryste, the spyryte wrought and made them fele. Wheruppon they came vnto the woman and sayde: we byleue not nowe bycause of thy saynge, but bycaus•• we haue harde oure selfes and knowe that he is Chryste the sauyour of the worlde. For Chrystys prea¦chynge was wyth power and spyryte that maketh a man fele and knowe and worke to / and not as the scrybes and pharysyes preached, and as cures make a man redy to c••st his gorge to heare them raue and rage as madde men. And therfore sayth the scrypture, cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh ••elshe his arme / that is to say, his strength. An•• euen so cursed is he that hath no nother bylyefe but bycause men so saye. Cursed were he that had no nother why to byleue then that I so say. And euen so cursed ys he that byleueth onely bycause [ C] the pope so sayth / and so forthe thorow out all the men in the worlde.

More.

Lo good crysten reders, here haue I geuen you hys whole tale to gether, to the ende of his whole chapyter, whyche houerly loked on and redde ouer plesauntly with hym that lyketh hyt ere euer he loke on yt for fauoure of the secte, can not but seme very gay. But who so consyder yt & aduyse yt well / he shall fynde not one pyece of treuthe therin, farther then I haue all redy shewed you in the end of hys fyrste solucyon / where I touched in few wordes scant spendynge foure lynys therin, that y^• mynde of sayn•• Austayn was and is I wene of all good men besydes, that

[ A] when we byleue the chyrche eyther in knowynge whyche is the scrypture or in the trewe sense and ryghte vnderstan¦dynge of the scrypture, god both preuenteth vs in geuyng vs the occasyon, and wurketh wyth vs and we wyth hym into the perfytynge of our consent and bylyefe / as he doth towarde the perfayt accomplysshement of euery thynge wherby we walke towarde our saluacyon / towarde why∣che we can no thynge do wythout hym, as hym selfe sayth,* 1.35 wythoute me nothynge can you do / so that the inwarde se¦crete cause wurkynge wyth vs is hym selfe.

But ordynaryly god vseth outwarde meanys and in∣strumentes, such as euery man may sumwhat by the same gyue a reason and cause of hys owne faythe to an other man, and therby tell hym that for the same causes the man [ B] to whome he telleth theym sholde of good reason folowe and byleue a lyke.

And in these meanes lyke as god vseth the bodyly senses whyche we call the fyue wyttes, as wayes and meanes to∣warde that vnderstandynge whyche men attayne by rea∣son, though there be somtyme bytwene the reason and the bodyly senses some debate and variaunce: so dothe he vse bothe the seruyse of the bodyly senses and of the reason of the soule towarde the seruyse of the fayth / addynge ther∣wyth bycause it is a thyyge farre aboue the nature of them bothe, hys owne supernaturall ayde and helpe of hys su∣pernall grace to preuent vs wyth occasyons and mocyons of bylyefe, and walkynge on wyth vs excepte we leue of our selfe to the perfaytynge of bylyefe in our hartes, and [ C] helpynge vs to inclyne oure myndes into the credence of those outwarde causes and motyues, whyche wythout hys helpe in thynges ordeyned of god for the waye to heuyn¦warde, we sholde not haue done / nor of goddes ordynary course we sholde not haue byleued wythout some such out∣warde sensyble causes neyther, as is prechynge and myra¦cles and some suche other.

And therfore as I before shewed you, saynte Austayne all be it that without helpe of god he byleued not the catho¦lyke chyrche, nor wythout helpe of god knewe and byleued the scrypture by the catholyke chyrche / yet he alledged vn∣to those heretykes the Manichays, not that inwarde cause the secrete helpe of god that wroughte wyth hys wyll and hys reason, in geuynge credence to those outwarde causes

for whyche he sayth that he byleued the chyrche / for therin [ A] myghte the Manicheys fayne theym selfe hys matchys, & say that the were inspyred, and that they felte theyr inspy∣racyon in theyr hartes so felyngly, that therby they percey∣ued that Manicheus theyr archeretyke was the very apo∣stle of Cryst, and that saynt Austayne eyther had no suche felynge or ellys a false felynge and was begyled.

And therfore as I saye saynt Austayne layed them not that inwarde cause, but the outwarde causes of hys byle∣uynge the chyrche / whyche were so good and effectuall, that the heretykes neyther coulde nor neuer can be able to brynge the lyke for them selfe. And then layeth he the same chyrch by those outwarde reasons so proued trewe, for the outwarde open cause of the knowlege and bylyefe of the very scrypture / and then doth the scrypture beynge by that [ B] outwarde cause, that is to wytte by the chyrche well per∣ceyued and knowen for the word of god, bere wytnesse also & is an other outward cause of the more sure and perfayte knowlege, that the knowen catholyke chyrche is the very trewe chyrch of Cryst here in erth, & that all other are vt∣terly fayned & false, bothe by the manyfolde textes of the scryptute expressely declaryng it as saīt Austayn sheweth, & also for that very reason sheweth that god gyuynge the gyfte of knowlege which is his trew scrypture to a chyrch, & vnto none but one or by that one, wolde neuer gyue that specyall goostely gyfte and prerogatyue vnto any false chyrche, and than byd the trew chyrche go lerne the trouth of the false.

Now good chrysten readers thys waye went saynt Au∣stayne [ C] wyth suche outwarde causes, as myghte of reason lede the reader wyth hym. But now cometh Tyndale and seynge that he can not auoyde the reason of saynt Austayn neyther wyth samples of saynte Iohn̄ and the pharyseys whyche he broughte in dysguysed of dyuers fasshyons to make one answere seme twayne, nor wyth false glosynge of saynt Austaynes wordes wherin ye se Tyndale proued playne false: he cometh now and confesseth that same out¦warde cause of fayth vnto the scrypture / grauntyng that hym selfe and euery man ellys knoweth it and byleueth it fyrst thorow the catholyke chyrch. But then flyeth he forth frome the, fayth of the chyrche vnto hys felynge fayth, by which he now knoweth & byleueth y^• scrypture as he sayth,

[ A] and no lenger by the chyrche. And ••herin he playeth by hys felynge fayth, as hys felowes do by theyr remembraunce. For yf any heretyke be taken and examyned vpon his oth of any maner thynge whych he wyll not confesse for hope that it can not be proued, nor dare well deny it for fere that it wylbe proued as whyther he sayd such a thynge or sawe suche a man / he runneth strayt to hys remembraunce, and sayth he sayd it not or saw hym not to hys remembraunce, though it were in le••se then halfe an howre afore. For ther∣in he seeth hym selfe saufe. For though the whole towne sawe them togyther and herde hym speke it / yet whyche of all them can proue whyther he remember it styll or haue forgote it were it neuer so late.

And so playeth Tyndale now, beynge fayne to graunte [ B] all that he hath denyed / he flyeth lyke rede Raynarde the foxe for hys saufegarde into his malepardus of his felyng fayth / in whyche though he haue nothynge to proue it, yet the Raynarde trusteth to lye saufe, bycause he thynketh no man can fynde hym out. For who can folow hym thyder to make any tryall what maner fayth hym selfe feleth in hys owne harte.

But yet good reders we shall so sette aboute hym, and then sette in suche terryers to hym, that we shall I truste eyther course hym abrode or make hym euyll reste within.

For lette vs now resorte agayn vnto the gaye gloryous processe of Tyndalys holy dystynccyon. And where as in the begynnynge therof he calleth the hystorycall fayth a cre••ence gyuen to a story tolde hym by men / and that such [ C] fayth and credence hangeth vppon the trouth and honesty of the teller, or of the comen fame and consent of many / as yf a man tell hym that the Turke hadde wonne a cytye, and that therfore yf there come an other that semeth more honeste, or that hath better persuasyons, than he thyn∣keth immedyately that the fyrste man lyeth and so he lo∣seth hys fayth agayne: If ye consyder well good chrysten readers ye shall fynde that parte of hys dystynccyon, that is to wytte the tone halfe of all to gyther is suche a tale as tyll he proue it better, shall neuer serue hym here. For all be it that in wordely thynges thys tale be trew / yet in maters of faythe, whyche faythe is the fyrste gate whereby we entre oure iournaye the ryghte waye toward god / we canne neuer come at it wythout the helpe

of god / nor how probable a tale so euer be tolde vs, neuer [ A] shall we byleue it wythout hys holy hande inwardly set on vs, and ledyng vs therin to / whych is euer redy in all such thynges, both to preuent vs and to goo forth wyth the to∣wardnesse of our owne wyll not frowardly resystynge but applyable vnto hys mocyon.

And thys order to be trewe Cryste wytnesseth, where he sayth,* 1.36 No man can come to me but if my father draw hym. And saynt Poule,* 1.37 sayenge, we be not suffycyent of our self to thynke any good thynge as of our selfe. And therfore god as I sayde preuenteth vs in the begynnynge, & goeth forth wyth vs all the waye / wythout whom we coulde do nothynge by fayth towarde god, nor ••y the outwarde oc∣casyon of fayth toward the inwarde consent therof, syth no [ B] man can as saynt Poule sayth, saye our lorde Iesus but in spyryte.* 1.38 And that god is euer redy, but yf we wyllyngly wythdraw / hym selfe sheweth where he sayth, I stonde at the dore and knocke.* 1.39

And that god helpeth vs forward not without our own cō¦formable wyll, appereth playn by clere textes of scrypture I wene mo then an hūdred. As where he sayth, wo be thou Capharnaum / for yf in Tyrus & Sidon had ben wrought the myracles that haue bene wroughte in the,* 1.40 they wolde longe a goo haue done penaunce in asshes and shyrtes of here. And also where he sayd vnto Hierusalē in this wyse: Hierusalem Hierusalem how often wold I haue gathered thy children togyther,* 1.41 as the henne gathereth togyther her chykens / & thou woldest not. And where he byddeth saynte [ C] Thomas of Inde, wyll not thou be vnbyleuynge but byle¦uynge. And where he blameth hys dyscyples for not byle∣uynge those that had seen hym rysen from deth agayne.* 1.42 And therfore is it in my mynde false that Tyndale sayth,* 1.43 that the hystorycall fayth, that is to saye the fayth acquy∣syte and gotten by gyuynge credence to the reporte and tel¦lynge, dothe in the thynges of the chrysten fayth depende vppon the trouth and honesty of menne, or comen fame a∣lone. For all be it that such thynges be the outwarde occa∣syons, by meane wherof a man cometh therto: yet is there euer more in euery such fayth the inwarde cause mouynge our wyll towarde the consent therof, the spe••yall ayde and helpe of the great goodnesse of god, wythout whyche oute wyll had neuer walked towarde it.

[ A] And lykewyse as not the mannys tale at oure eare with oute god workynge wythin, bryngeth vs into the bylyefe, (For as saynt Au••tayn sayth, In vayne sowneth at y^e eare. the word but yf god worke in the herte) euē so not y^e mānis tale alone kepeth y^e faith in vs, but as an outward mocyon yt kepeth as it brought / but pryncypally kepeth vs therin he that pryncypally brought vs therto, that is the inward workynge of goddes owne holy spyryte. And thus ye se that this pyece of Tindales tale is but a bare brokē patche

Nowe the tother parte, wherein he sayeth that yf there come a more honeste man, or one that hath better persuasyons to the cōtrary / that then he that had the faith vppon the fyrste mannys tellynge, loseth yt agayne vpon the seconde man tellynge the cōtrary: I say y^t this patche [ B] is double noughte. For syth as I sayd byfore he came to the fayth by two mocyons / the pryncypall god workynge wythin, and the secondary the occasyons outwardely ge∣uyn also by god: lyke as the good wyll workynge wyth god assented vnto yt, so shall neuer any mannys tale, n••r the tale of a thousande agaynste one, ouermayster that in∣warde mocyon of god, as long as the wyll of the man will contynue styll with god in cleuynge to the fayth, as yt dyd in folowynge hym in the commynge to yt. Aud therefore some man that hath vppon ryghte small occasyon turned to the fayth, and therfore wyth the myche more meryte as Cryste sayde, Ble••sed be they that haue byleued and haue not seen: could neuer wyth any maner occasyon be pulled from yt agayne, bycause of theyr good wyll stykkyng styll [ C] to the inwarde cause of theyr fayth.

For yf a man may as in dede he may, so obstynately set his wyll vnto the worse syde, that no persuasyon of good reason can remoue hym to the better: how mych it is more trew, that when a man hath coupled his wyll wyth god, by inclynynge & cleuynge vnto grace, there can none euyll persuasyon of counterfeted reason be able to plukk•• hym from yt tyll the frowardnesse of his wyll do wyllyngly fall therfro, as the towardnes of his wyll dyd wyllyngly cleue therto / and as yt agayne maye when yt is fallen from yt, wyth helpe of grace wyllyngly returne therto.

Now yf Tyndale call this a felyng fayth: yet were his dystinccyon then clene vaynyshed and gone. For then were euery historycall fayth in maters in the fayth a felyng faith

also. And therby were then all his solucyon confounded. [ A]

But this peyce is also nought for a nother thynge. For in this patche he supposeth that for y^e fayth of Cryste there coulde not be gyuen so good an outwarde cause, but that some better myght be made agaynst yt, or at the leste some suche as myght appere the better. But I say that excepte obstynacy & forwardnes be in the mynde of hym to whom yt shall so seme / yt is ellys a thynge impossyble, that euer there shall be layed so great outewarde thynges agaynste the fayth of Cryst, as shall be layed for yt. But the reasons all redy made, and the thynges all redy shewed for y^• fayth are suche, as euery resonable man standynge but indyf••e∣rent and voyd of ob••tinate forwardn••sse, yf the mater were but the trouth of a ••tory and not the meane of mānis salua¦cyon, might well descer••e all that may be made agaynst yt [ B] to be farre the weker parte. And now beynge this mater the meane of mannys saluacyon, towarde the bylyef wher¦of god worked / Tyndales tale is myche the flebler. For el¦lys geue we them a great excuse that lest not to byleue the trouthe.

But oure lorde sayth vnto the prechers of hys sayth, whome he sent to preache to all the worlde, that he wolde geue theym a ••outh and wysedome therin, that no man shold be able to resy••te the reasons wyth whych they shold conferme yt. In ••hych wordes our lord ment not, y^t euery man wolde for all those reasons of prophecyes myracles martyrs and many other thynges bysydes, consente and agree to byleue but / that all be yt of ab••tynacy they wolde not yet to theym that were indyfferent, yt sholde well ap∣that [ C] they coulde neuer be able suf••ycyently to answere thē, but that they myghte euer by playne outwarde proues be sustancyally confounded / and the trew byleuer able alway to declare to the false and faythlesse an outward cause suf¦fycyent of his fayth and hop••, whyche the tother myghte frowardly saye he wolde not / but reasonably could he ne∣uer say why he shold not beleue and geue credence vnto. And thus ys lo the fyrste parte of Tyndales dy••tynccyon de••troyed.

Now is the seconde part••, his felyng fayth, whych is he sayth that bylyefe and fayth, not that a man hath goten and conceyued in hys harte by herynge of other men, but by y^e playne experyēce of his owne felynge. And wyth this

[ A] felyng fayth byleueth he y^• batayle that hath not herd other men talke therof & told yt hym / but hath hym self both ben present therat, aud also ben wounded therin. Nor no man byleueth wyth the felyng fayth that the fyre is hote, tyll he haue at the leste wyse burned his fynger in yt. For all ys but hystorycall fayth byfore.

Nowe good cristen reders, by this tale Tyndale telleth vs that all the credence whyche he gaue vnto the chyrche, in takynge the bokes of the foure euangelystes for the ve∣ry gospelles of Cryste, was all to gether but lyke Tynda∣les mothers blowynge vppon her fynger / and therby ma∣kynge that prety babe her sonne byleue that the fyre was hote and hadde burned her / and that he wolde haue byle∣ued her no lesse, yf she hadde tolde hym the same by a cuppe [ B] of colde water. And that in lyke wyse as he byleued the chyrche that the gospelles were holy scrypture, so shold he haue byleued theym yf they hadde tolde hym that a tale of Robben hode hadde ben holy scrypture. For syth all was but an hystorycall fayth, all muste nedes haue ben one.

Consyder by the way good reder the dyfference betwene saynt Au••tayne and the good man Tyndale, in theyr cre∣dence geuen vnto the chyrche. Saynte Austayne byleued the chyrche in teachynge hym why••h was the trewe scryp∣ture, bycause he perceyued well the same chyrch to be so de¦clared by miracles & many other menes to be y^e trew chirch, that therby he byleued that the doctryne therof coulde not be false, and that therfore yt could not teache a tale of Rob¦byn hode to be the gospell of Cry••te.

[ C] Now Tyndale as ye se taketh the credēce of the whole catholyke chyrch the ••••der of euery mānys cristendome, lyke his ovne moder blowynge vpon her fynger, and ther∣by makynge the babye byleue what she ly••te. And therfore in this poynt wherin saynte Austayne and the good man Tyndale tell you two so dyuerse tales / consyder well with your self the wysedom, the lernynge, the maners, & the ver¦tue, of those ••wo ••••n / and then of them both loke whome ye fynde beste, and by myne aduyse euen hym byleue beste.

But now doth Tyndale he sayth byleue the trouth, that not a tale of Ro••ben hode but the bokes of the foure euan∣gelystes be the t••••w gospell of Chry••te, bycause oure lorde ••ath hem self so taught it hym, and so shewed yt hym now, that all that he hath he•••••• the•••••• vyfore by the teachyng of

the catholyque chyrche, moueth hym nothynge at all / for [ A] now he hath an inwarde profe and experyence therof, and fully and sensybly feleth yt, as he feleth the fyre hote by the burnynge of his fynger.

And as he feleth yt thus in hym selfe / so he perceyueth yt is with all y^• other electes the mēbers of his trew chyrch and that therfore of all them there is none that knowe the scrypture by the catholyke chyrche, but by theyr owne sure secrete felynge, suche as they fele when they burne theyre fyngers.

This is the tale ye wote well that Tyndale telleth vs. But now is yt perde good reason that Tyndale tell vs al∣so, by what meane he proueth yt / or ellys at the leste wyse that he tell vs some cause resonable wherfore we sholde in so straunge a mater byleue hys bare worde. For furely [ B] though that in any such thynge as he wyll saye that he fe∣leth hym selfe in his owne breste, and theruppon take hys othe vppon hys honesty that he feleth yt in dede / reason re¦quyreth for lakke of other tryall, that we byleue his owne worde / consyderynge that we may be ledde to byleue hym by the long experiēce of the contynuall lyeng that we haue euer therfore foūden in him, yet that the lyke felyng is also in all his felowes hartes how feleth he? And therfore howe can he desyre that we sholde therin byleue hym wythoute profe? namely syth we se that hys owne hyghe spyrytuall may••ter, mayster Martyne Luther hym selfe; for all hys hygh fleshely vertues, layeth not in that mater such feling for his owne fayth, but well lyketh and mych alloweth the hystorycall fayth of saynte Austayne / and playnely confes∣seth [ C] hym selfe that the chyrche that ••aynte Austayne spake of, that is to wyt the knowen catholyke chyrch, hath that gyft gyuen of god, that yt shall perfytely dyscerne the wor¦des of god from the wordes of men / ••nd therfore ••hall ne∣uer take and teache a tale of Robben hode for the trew scri¦pture of god.

Now therfore as I say, Ty••dale muste proue vs this felynge fayth / at the lest wyse f•••• the fayth of his felowes / or ellys shall he make vs fele that for a shyfte to scape a∣way wyth, he hath sought sore 〈◊〉〈◊〉 found out for the arty¦cles of his heresyes, not any tr•••• felyng•• fayth•• but a false fumblynge fantasye.

yet wolde Tyndale seme to proue his felynge fayth by

[ A] scrypture / and therfore he sayth, Of the felynge ••ayth yt is wryten Iohn̄. vi. They shall be all taughte of god. That is, god shall wryte yt in theyr hertes wyth hys ••oly spyryte. And Paule also testyfyeth Roman. viii. the spyryte bereth recorde vnto oure spyryte, that we be the sonnes of god. And thys fayth is none opynyon, but a sure felynge / and therfore euer frutefull. Neyther hangeth yt of the honesty of the preacher but of the power of god and of the spyryte. And therfore yf all the preachers of the worlde wolde go about to persuade the contrary, yt wold not preuayl / no more then though they wolde make me byleue that the fyre were cold / after that I ha•• put my fynger therin.

Now good chrysten reades here haue ye fyrste herde the wordes of god, wyth whych Tyndale wold make vs wene that he proueth vs hys felynge fayth of all hys heresyes / & after haue ye herde the wordes of hym selfe declarynge the [ B] effecte of the same, in hym self so depe and so surely wryten in hys herte, that all the prechours in the worlde can not now scrape it out no more, then make hym byleue that the fyre were colde in whyche he had burned hys fynger.

Fyrste ye maye sone se that the scryptures proue of hys purpose not one peyce. For well ye wote your questyon is not, whyther god wyth hys inwarde wurkynge wryte in mannys harte the fayth whyche I haue at length all redy shewed you that he doth, and haue also shewed you what is ment therby, that is to wytte hys wurkynge wyth the to¦wardenesse of mannys wyll, in ledynge hym in to the con∣sent of bylyefe / whyche ledynge is the techynge wherof Crist speketh in the wordes which Tindale here alledgeth the wordes of our sauiour, rehersyng the sayeng of the pro¦phete Esay,* 1.44 They shalbe all taught of god / whych wordes [ C] by the prophete were spoken of our sauyour & the new law that he sholde brynge, and of the great dyfference bytwene Moyses that taught the olde, & Cryst that shold come and tech the secunde. For in the fyrst, though it were receyued of god, was yet delyuered them & taught them by Moyses that was but a man / & they lerned but o•• theyr neyghbour, that is to wyt of man of whych euery one is neyghbour to other by kynde. But in the new law the worlde receyued & lerned of Cryste, whyche was not our neyghbour onely, y^• is to wyt very man. But also the maker of euery mannes neighbour, & him self also very eternal god, & y^e same techer though he taught before & was y^e same god y^t before taught by Moyses the synagoge of the chyldren of Israell, and

gaue theym by Moyses a lawe wryten in bokes eyther of [ A] stone or in dede skynnes. yet when he wolde after come to gather hys chrysten chyrch, and teche in hys owne person / he wolde hys owne mouth gyue hys chyrche a lawe wyth∣out booke, and shede out hys grace so meruelouse and so plentuouse vppon the people that thorough the myracles & the doctryne, dede stony hartes sholde waxe tender, softe, & quycke, and wyth wyllyng and applyable myndes, shold by the spyryte of god haue the lawe, that is the trewe by∣lyefe, good hope, and well wurkynge cheryte, gracyously wryten in them. And thus sholde it haue bene, and by the same spyryte sholde it euer haue cōtynued in the catholyke chyrche, all though neuer worde of the new testament had ben wryten. And yet in the same maner remayneth wryten [ B] in the same chyrche by the same spyryte, a ryghte rule lefte by god, techynge the chyrche to enterprete and vnderstand the wrytynge that hys holy apostles haue wryten after, & hys holy prophetes haue also wryten before. And thys wry¦tynge from tyme to tyme in the hartes of hys chyrch is the writyng that Cryst so often promised vnto his chyrch / that is to wyt that he wolde sende the holy gooste to teche it all thynge, and to lede it into all trouth, & be wyth it hym selfe all dayes also euyn vnto the worldes ende.

Now what chyrch this is there nedeth no man to dowt, when we dowte not whych chyrche it is that hath by god that gyfte to knowe by bylyef which is the trew scrypture / whyche is as me semeth one greate artycle of the fayth.

That chyrche that hath the gyfte of that artycle, vpon [ C] whyche by the doctryne of all these heretykes them self, the credence of all the other artycles depende / and none other chyrche hath it but by it / that chyrche I saye may soone be perceyued, and ought to be byleued to be the very chyrche.

Now what thys techyng is, that is ment by our sauyoru in the wordes that Tyndale alledgeth, ye ••e. And therfore as I sayed, now consyder that the purpose of Tyndale is not to teche vs that god techeth hys electes the fayth, but to teche and proue vs by the textes that he bryngeth forth, that god techeth not onely the trewe fayth but also the fe∣lynge fayth, of suche a maner felynge as hym selfe hath de¦clared, by beynge wounded in the batayle, and burnynge hys fynger in the fyre / so y^t he can neuer after at any tyme byleue the cōtrary, no nor neuer after do any dedely synne.

[ A] And now ye se perde clerely, that in those wordes of Crys••e rehersynge the prophecy, They shall be all taught of god: here is neuer one worde of any suche maner felynge / and therfore doth that texte nothynge proue for hys purpose of hys felynge fayth.

Besydes thys, ye wote well that Tyndale putteth thys felynge fayth to be the fayth of all electes / and than hym selfe denyeth not but that there were electes in euery tyme from Adam vnto Cryste. And thys prophecy that he nowe bryngeth in for hys purpose, was as hym selfe knoweth, spoken of the chyrch of Cryste that shold be after hys own comynge. And how can he than for shame saye, that it was spoken of the felynge fayth of all electes, when they w••re onely spoken to declare the maner of excellence bytwen•• [ B] the new lawe and the olde. But suche is Tyndals iuglyng to make euery thynge of euery thynge.

Let vs now go than to the wordes of saynt Poule in the viii, chapyter of his pystle to the Romayns, where he sayth the spyryte bereth wytnesse to our spyryte, that we be the sonnes of god.

These wordes good chrysten reder whyche Tyndale here allegeth for hym, not onely make nothynge for hym / but ouer that yf we consyder them well wyth some wo••des before and after, they make so clere agaynste hym•• that a man coulde not wysshe for a place more effectuall to tur•••• ouer vtterly & destroye clerely Tyndals hole gostely pur∣pose. For lo good reder saynt Poule after that he hadde in the .vii. chapyter of that pystle, touched the great goodnes [ C] of god, that had by the deth of our sauyour Cryste d••lyu••∣red in the baptysme all the worlde that wolde be good chr••¦sten people, from all the gylte & dampnacyon dewe for all maner synne / & lefte vs in such case that all the relykes & leuynges of orygynall synne, albeit they be mocyons & in∣clynacions of y^e flesh towarde synne, & therby called synne, for the lacke of that perfeccion whych the body shold haue, had yf Adam had not by synne fallen for hym self & all his posteryte from the state of orygynall iustyce / & shall haue when y^e body shall aryse agayn, & be gloryfyed: yet be they not imputed vnto vs / but perdoned & remayne as mater of our meryte, in case y^t we resyst those inclynacyōs of y^e fl••sh, & folowe the mocyons of the scrypture. After thys I saye touched in the .vii. chapyter, then pursueth he styll vpō the

same in the eyghte chapyter / declarynge the excellence of [ A] grace that god hath powred on vpon his people in y^e newe law, farre aboue the grace whyche he gaue yet abundaun∣tely in the olde / but in the newe farre pa••synge, in that he vouchsaufed hym selfe to come in to the worlde in his own persone, in the very nature of man and symylytude of a syn¦ner, and sufferynge here hys paynefull passyon, therby to dampne & destroye the synne that the deuyll caused Adam to commytte agaynst god / to dāpne it I saye and destroye it, by the synne that the deuyll caused the iewes to commyt in puttynge our sauyour vniustely to deth.

And all be it that in the olde lawe, suche as were good men receyued theyr grace by the fayth and bylyefe of oure sauyour that after sholde come, and were by vertue therof made able to resyste the relyques of orygynall synne and [ B] inclynacyons of the flesshe towarde actuall synnes, & ther¦by were after Crystes passyon saued: yet was that ayde & helpe of grace by Crystes owne comynge, when by the pas∣syon of hys flesshe he dampned the synne in the flesshe, so farre encreaced aboue that it was in y^e chyldren of Israell before, whose flesshely sacryfyces were to feble of them self to iustyfye, that suche as are baptysed and receyue the spy¦ryte of god•• may yf they wyll farre more easyly folowe the spyryte and resyste the flesshely mocyons, and abyde and perseuer the quycke lyuely membres of Crystes mystycall body, then myghte of oldetyme before Crystes comynge, the chyldren of the synagoge.

And syth our lorde hath now done so myche for vs, as in suche haboundaunce by hys owne comyng, to gyue out [ C] hys grace vnto vs, that we maye wyth helpe therof ••eynge so plentuouse, wyth mych lesse dyffycultye myche more re∣syste the flesshe, and myche more folow the spyryte, & kepe the spyryte wyth vs, and for the spyryte inhabytynge with in vs meryte myche more glory, fyrste in soule, and after in body / whyche the father of oure sauy••ur that r••yseh hys, shall for the same spyryte inhabytynge in vs, reyse and re∣suscytat to blysse: therfore are we doctours sayeth saynte Poule, & it is our bounden d••wtye to folowe, not the fle••he whom we may now by the plentuouse grace of god so well and easyly resys••e, and whose affeccyons yf we folowe we shall dye / but the spyryte of god, and by that spyryt to mor∣tyfye the dedes and wurkes of the flesshe / whyche yf we d••

[ A] we shall lyue.* 1.45 For who so sayth saynte Poule be led by the spyryt of god, they be the sonnes of god. And then to shew vs that we sholde in mortyfyenge the workes of the fleshe, and folowynge the spyryte, not onely do yt but also do yt gladly, not for fere but for loue / syth Chrysten people re∣ceyue the spyryte of filialll loue, and are in suche wyse as∣crybed for the sonnes of god, that oure sauyour hath hym selfe taught vs to call god our father / so that in respecte of our state, the Iewes were but in fere and boundage: ther¦fore sayth saynte Poule farther vnto the crystened, y^t were amonge the Romaynes: ye haue not receyued agayne the the spyryte of bondage in drede, but the spyryte by whiche ye ben adopted & chosen into the sonnes of god, by whiche spyryte also we crye Abba father. Uppon whyche wordes [ B] euen by and by folowen the wordes that Tyndale here al∣ledgeth for hys purpose,* 1.46 For the same spyryte bereth wyt∣nesse vnto our spyryt, y^t we be the sonnes of god. And then yf we be the sōnes, then be we heyres•• heyres of god, cohey¦res of Cryste / how be it that yt is to be vnderstanden yf we suffre wyth hym that we maye be gloryfyed wyth hym.

Lo good crysten reders, here haue I somwhat recyted vnto you the mater by whyche your selfe maye perceyue to what purpose saynte Paule spake these wordes that Tyn∣dale here alledgeth / that is to saye, the same spyryte bereth recorde vnto our spyrit, that we be the sōnes of god. In all whyche wordes I wonder what one worde or what one syllable eyther, ye or so myche as one letter, Tyndale fyn∣deth makynge toward a profe of his felynge fayth. ye per¦ceyue [ C] here that the meanynge of saynte Poule is this, that bycause our lord as he by fayth and baptysme choseth and adopteth vs into the sonnes of god, and therfore by his ho¦ly spirite geueth vs instruccyon to call god our fa••her / and by the same spyryte yf we lyste to folowe, ledeth vs forth al¦so in good spyrytuall workes,* 1.47 whych are as saynte Poule sayth to the Galaties, charyte, gladnes, peace, pacyence, longe suffrynge, goodnes, gentlenes, fayth, mekenes, tem¦peraūce / & by the same spyryte yf we will worke with hym, causeth vs to kyll and mortyfye the workes of the fleshe, whyche ben as saynte Poule sayeth manyfeste and open / that is to wyt adultery, whorehuntyng, vncle••••••••••, wanto¦••es, idolatry, wytche craft, enmytye, lawynge, emulacyon and stryfe, wrath, contencyons, sedycyons, heresyes, en∣uye,

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manshlaughterr, dronkenes, bankettynges: therfore [ A] sayth saynte Poule that thys spyryte bereth recorde vnto our spyryte, that we be the sonnes of god / as though he wolde saye thus, the spyryte of god in that yt hath taught vs to call god our father, and in that yt ledeth vs into god¦ly workes and into the mortyfycatyon of the fleshely wor∣kys, by whyche maner of glad folowynge the spyryte we dwell in Cryste and haue the spyryte dwellynge in vs: by these thynges as very good tokens of grace the spyryte of god ••ereth recorde vnto our spyryte, that is to wyt geueth our spyryte the comforte of good hope, as longe as we so do, that we be the sonnes of god. But then on the tother syde when so euer we wax vntowarde and lyste no lenger to folow the spyryte, but fall vnto the fleshe and walke in the workes therof, and therby put the spyryte oute of hys [ B] dwellynge: th••n ceace we to be the sonnes of god, were we neuer so dere derlynges to hym byfore / and shall neuer be his sonnes agayne, tell we mende agayne, & leue the fleshe agayne, and full agayne to the spyryte.

This is good crysten reders the mynde of saynt Poule as ye may clerely perceyue. And therfore may ye well and clerely se, that these wordes make nothynge in this world for the profe of Tyndales purpose concernyng his felyng fayth / but beynge vnderstanden ryghte wyth the wordes goynge before them, they clerely subuerte and destroy all his felynge sayth, whyche he feleth that beynge ones one of the sonnes of god, he can neuer fall therfore, nor neuer synne dedely after. For here as ye se saynte Poule geuyng good warnynge of deth and dampnacyon when they do / playnely sheweth that they may. And thus is there also by [ C] saynte Poule openly confounded and dampned, all that whole pestylent boke, in whych wyllyam Tyndale wyth his false construccyon corrupteth the fyrste pystle of saynt Iohn̄ / labourynge to make men wene that who so were onys a good crysten man, coulde neuer after be noughte, though he neuer so myche do noughte, bycause he can not do yt sayth Tyndale of purpose but of fraylty / and y^t who so after his crystendome do purposely cōmytte any cryme, neuer was good byfore nor neuer shal wax good after, nor neuer 〈◊〉〈◊〉 forgeuen but vtterly dampned remedylesse. whyche false exposycyon yf yt were trew / then had saynte Poule here wryte many wordes vntrew, and geuen many

[ A] monycyons in vayne / and had also done in a nother place a thyng of lytle effect, in restoryng the Corinthyane agayn vnto the chyrche, whyche had abomynable mysse vsed his fathers wyfe. whose restytucyon wherof shold yt serue, yf after his restytucyon to the chyrche after his great penaūs done, he sholde for all that when he dyed go strayte vnto the deuyll.

Now that ye se these two textes of scrypture whyche he bryngeth for hym, do nothynge make for hym in dede / and the later of the twayne clerely make agaynste hym, beynge translated after the olde latyn translacyon, whyche he ••o∣loweth in those wordes / and yet myche more agaynst hym yf yt were translated after the greke, whyche in other places he foloweth, and in this purposely flytteth fro, to [ B] frame the wordes the more towa••de his purpose: lette vs nowe consyder the thyrde place of scrypture that he bryn∣geth to vs of the woman of Samarye, whome many men of the cytye byleued, for that she tolde theym that Chryste had tolde her all that she hadde done / and theruppon they went out vnto Cryste, and desyred hym to come in.

But this fayth he sayth that those men hadde, was but an opynyon and no fayth, that coulde haue lasted or haue brought oute frute.

Now ere we go any farther, how proueth Tyndale this peyce of his purpose, that this fayth in those men was but a bare opynyon / and so faynte that yt coulde not haue las∣ted nor haue broughte oute frute. How proueth Tyndale [ C] thys? what one word hath he toward the profe? any more then only sayth so? And why may not we then say agayne the contrary? agaynst hym that nothyng sayth, why may we not say that vppon the womans wordes, our sauyoure hym selfe standynge yet wythout the cytye in his manhed was wythin the cytye both wyth her and theym in his god hed, and wrought wyth theyr towarde wyllys in the m••n∣nys hartes, the bylyef that they vppon the womans wor∣des conceyued / whych was so stronge and so frutefull, that forth with they came ioyfully forth vnto hym, and inuyted hym into the cytye. whych doynge of theyrs I wold wene were frutefull and merytoryous, when I se well in the gos¦pell that other which wold not reecyue his ••yscyples, were thretened of his owne mouth that they sholde at the daye of iudgement stande in more harde case, then the synfull

Sodomytes and cytezyns of Gommer both. [ A]

ye sayth Tyndaler but yet was it but hystorycall fayth. For felynge fayth coulde yt not be, tyll they spake wyth Cryste hym selfe. For then the spyryt wrought sayth Tyn¦dale, and made them fele. wheruppon they came vnto the woman and sayde, we byleue not now bycause of thy say∣eng / but bycause we haue herde our selfes and know that he is Cryste the sauyour of the worlde.

what proueth Tyndale now wyth all this? any more, then that theyr fayth was augmented and encreaced after theyr cōmunicacyon had wyth our sauyour hym self? But what is this for his purpose, doth this profe y^• theyr fayth was byfore but a bare opinion, and y^• it neyther could haue contynued nor haue brought forth frute. Bycause yt was after encreased and made more frutefully, was yt byfore [ B] no fayth at all therfore but a bare fruteles opynyon. Must yt nedes folowe that theyr fayth was chaunged in kynde, bycause yt was augmented in degrees. The apostles thoughte as yt semeth otherwyse, when they prayed oure lorde not to chaunge theyr fayth but to encreace yt.

Also in the selfe same gospell of the Samarytanys, the playne texte sayth, Many of the Samarytanis byleued in hym for the wordes of the woman. But Tyndale sayth nay / and sayth yt was no bylyef that they hadde but onely an opynyon, where the gospell by playne wordes sayeth they byleued / & him self sheweth nothyng why he shold say otherwyse, but onely that theyr bylyef was after by the cō¦munycacyon hadde wyth Chryste more stronge and more fastely cōfermed. And yet fyndeth he no word that none of [ C] them coulde fall from yt after.

And therfore these wordis of the gospell reproue y^e tone part of his tale, that theyr bylyef was no fayth but an opy¦nyon / & no wordes proue the tother parte of his tale wher¦in standeth all to gether, that is to saye that those men of Samarye hadde any suche felynge fayth as Tyndale de∣scrybed vs and telleth vs this tale fore / that is to say, such a felynge fayth that could neuer after fayle, lyke the fayth of hete in hym that hath burned his fynger. For where fyn¦deth he in that gospell or any other, that all those men per seuered euer after in the fayth / and not onely were euer af¦ter faithfull byleuers, but also good vertuouse lyuers, and neuer dyd dedely synne but were all fynally saued.

[ A] Thys muste Tyndale shewe vs yf he brynge an ensam¦ple of hys felynge fayth that he techeth vs. And yet muste he proue vs ferther that they felyngly and faytfull byle∣ued his false heresyes also. For ellys hadde they not his fe∣lynge fayth.

Now yf he thynke he proue vs thys suffyciently, by the reason that those men were turned and waxen faythfull at the prechyng of our sauyour hym selfe in his owne person, whyche preched sayth Tyndale not as the scrybes and pharyseys dyd, ••••r as ours do, that make a man redy to caste hys g••rge to here them raue and rag•• lyke mad men / but he preched wyth power and spyryte, that maketh men f••••e and know and wurke to. If Tyndale I say loke by thys to proue that they had such a felynge fayth that neuer coulde fayle, bycause the prechynge of Cryste was with power and spy∣ryte: [ B] then goeth he farre wronge, & ouerturneth hys pryn∣cypall purpose of all. For well he wo••eth that Cryste pro∣mysed and sent the same spyryte to hys chyrch,* 1.48 to teche it & lede it into all trewth,* 1.49 and hym selfe also to dwell therin for euer. And that the knowen catholyke chyrche is it that onely hath the same spyryte, appereth clerely by thys that onely the knowen catholike chyrch hath in it declared and contynued the power. For none other chyrche of Chryste is there in whyche the myracles contynue.

And therfore yf there were any such felyng fayth in any chyrche / then must it be in thys chyrche / & then were thys chyrche the chyrche of Tyndals electes, and then were ther wythall hys whole purpose loste.

Now yf he wyll not in any wyse agree, that any papystes [ C] may be electes and haue the felynge fayth, nor any man at theyr prechynge bycause they do but raue & rage / but the menne of Samary were electes & must nedes haue the fe∣lyng fayth for this onely cause, that is to wyt bycause our lord preched to them hym selfe / so that ellys they could not at the prechynge of any other: then let it lyke hym to remē¦ber, that Cryste preched to many men his owne mouth of whyche there were some that thorow theyr frowarde wyll byleued neuer a whyt / as for ensample the scrybes and pha¦ryseys. And some byleued at the fyrst full well, & afterward yet fell away / as dyd almost all the mayny of his discyples when he tolde them of hys body and bloude,* 1.50 that sholde be both mete & drynke / went they not from hym than as Tyn¦dale hath done synnys for y^• self same cause bycause he wyll none other byleue, but that it is onely ••ake brede & wyne?

And hadde not Iudas Iscaryoth herd our lorde as often [ A] prech and as longe, as dyd those men of Samary, ye and byleued as well to somtyme / and yet fell after to noughte as Tyndale is fallen now.

Nay sayth Tyndale Iudas neuer byleued. How pro∣ueth Tyndale that agayne••* 1.51 For of all lykelyh•••• he dyd,* 1.52 syth Cryste toke hym and made hym hys apost••e and sente hym forth to prech / and forther as some good cōmentours expowne these verses, sayth of hym, hym ••elfe: If myne enemye had cursed me I myght haue susteyned & borne it. And also yf he that hated me had spoken hyghe wordes to me, I wolde perauenture haue hydde me from hym. But thou man of one mynde wyth me my guyde and myne ac∣quayntaūce, that dydest eate with me swete mere, we wal∣ked togyther in the howse of god with one agreable mynd. [ B] Here sayth our sauyour of hym, not onely that he was his acquayntaunce & famylyare, and that they pleasaūtely dyd eate to gyther / but also that they were of one mynde onys, & walked in the howse of god wyth good consent togyther, had Cryste ben of one mynde & cōsent with Iudas at any tyme, yf Iudas had at no tyme be••e of the ryght bylyefe? well wyll Tyndale say, but yet hadde he but an hystorycall fayth & not the felyng fayth. Now where is then become y^• profe of Tyndals tale, y^• the men of Samary muste nedes haue the felyng fayth, bycause they spake with Cryste, and coulde not haue so for all the womans wordes, tyll they spake wyth Cryst / yf Cryst spake wyth Iudas mych more then wyth them / & yet had Iudas but eyther hystorycall fayth or els no fayth at all, or finally his felynge fayth fay¦led [ C] & fell awaye / wherupon it foloweth that there fayleth & falleth away Tyndals hole tale wythall. For how proueth he now that theyr bylyefe was a felynge fayth, that neuer coulde fayle nor fall.

And thus ye se good reders how wysely Tyndale pro∣ueth hys dystynccyō of hystorycall fayth and felyng fayth, by the sample of the Samarytanys / by whych he proueth as ye se, neyther one thynge nor other.

And fynally yf we graunte hym that all was there trew that he sayth / that is to wytte that the men had the felynge fayth bycause they spake wyth Cryst mouth to mouth, and that excepte hys personall prechyng, theyr fayth had bene but an opynyon faynt feble and fruteles••e: then were Tyn¦dale

[ A] yet brought vnto the wurste poynte of all. For then must it nedes folow theron, that neyther Luther, nor Tyn¦dale, nor Huyskyn, nor Suinglius, can bynd vs to byleue that they haue the felynge fayth, tyll they brynge vs forth good profe that they haue spoken, not wyth other y^• preche them Crystes wordes, but as the menne of Samary dyd, euyn face to face wyth Crystes owne person present.

Now se ye well good chrysten reders, that of all hys cō¦clusyon of hystorycall fayth and felyng fayth, wheruppon fynally dependeth all hys purpose: to wynd away wythall and ••hyfte hym selfe asyde, he proueth vs neuer a pyece.

And yet as though there muste nedes be such a felynge fayth as he descrybeth / he procedeth forth and sayth.

Tyndale.

[ B] The scrypture sayth, cursed is he that trusteth in man and maketh floshe his arme / that is to say, his strength. And euen so cursed is he that hath none nother bylyefe but bycause men so saye. Cursed were he that had no nother why to byleue then that I so saye. And euen so cursed ys he that byleueth onely bycause the pope so sayth / and so forthe thorow out all the men in the worlde.

More.

ye se good reders that these wordes waye, to proue that of necessyte there muste be suche a felynge fayth as he as∣sygneth. For ellys maketh Tyndale as though no man coulde haue any other cause of hys fayth, but the trust that he putteth in the man that telleth hym so / and that saith he is a thynge accursed in the scrypture. A lytell afore Tyn∣dale alledged saynt Austayne in beleuynge the gospell for [ C] the chyrche / & now lo he calleth hym accursed for puttynge of men in so mych ••ru••te. But I suppose the scrypture spe∣keth of these prounde wordly folke, that wene them selfe saufe inough by worldly strength, and able to conquere & wynne vp the world with multytude of men / of whom the scrypture sayth that they put trust of vyctory, some in horse & some in charyotes. These kynde of people do make flessh theyr arme / & not euery mā y^• byleueth an other in tellynge of a tale. For they byleue not with theyr arme perde / but as they walke with theyr hādes bycause they cast them not of. But Tyndale that dysdayneth to byleue the chyrche, he is by goddes owne mouth accursed out of the chyrche. For who so (sayth ou•• sauyou••) wyll not here the chyrche take hym for a publycan and a very paynym.* 1.53

But now good chrysten readers I haue declared you [ A] before, that saynt Austayne in byleuynge the scrypture by∣cause of the authoryte of the chyrche, and all we that do the lyke / do not therby put our truste in man but in god, that by hys inwarde spyryee and outwarde myracles, enclyneth vs to byleue hys chyrche therin / and yet by the same scryp∣ture also confermeth the same bylyefe by hys great promy∣ses therin conteyned and made vnto the same chyrche / and of whyche we se dayly some performed in the same, and the remanaūt therby the more fastely confermed and byleued of the same. And therfore in byleuynge the chyrche, we put not I saye our trust in the men whom we byleue / but we put our truste in god, for whome and by whom we byleue the men.

And yet foloweth it nothyng the rather, that there shold [ B] be any suche felynge fayth as Tyndale onely talketh of & no pyece proueth of. For there maye be and in dede is, a ferme and faste bylyefe wythout any other felynge then by leuynge onely, for as farre as concerneth onely fayth. And the fayth of a ryght good man and a very electe, maye be full faste at one tyme, and at an other full feble, ye and fall awaye / and yet by grace and good wyll, come to the man agayne.

And therfore is all thys chapyter of hys felynge fayth, bryngynge no profe for hys purpose, vtterly spent aboute nought. And vnto as lytell purpose he spendeth an other peuysshe chapyter after / in whyche bycause he wolde yet fayne haue it seme necessary, that there sholde be suche a [ C] felyng fayth, he telleth vs a longe tale that the fayth which dependeth vppon an other mannes mouth is weke. And surely sauynge that in that chapyter he brawleth bygly, and scoldeth strongely, & rayleth ryally, & lyeth puissaūtly / ••llys is all hys mater besyde meruelouse feble and weke.

Thys chapyter he spendeth all vppon rybawdouse ray¦lynge, so shamefull and abomynable that I wene for very shame and offendynge of honeste mennes eares, it were bet¦ter burne it then reherse it. How be it le••t some men m••ght happe to saye that I mysse reporte hym, and wolde make menne wene that he were so bestely as to wryte such fylthy raylynge lyes, as honeste eares myghte not well endure to here: I shall of necessyte though I be loth therto, be fayne to reherse you for a sample some parte of hys bestely kna∣uery.

[ A] Lo thus he begynneth his chapyter.

Tyndale.

If I haue none other felynge then bycause a man so sayth, then is my fayth faythlesse. For yf I haue none other felyng that lechery is synne, then that the pope so preacheth, whome I se before my face set vppe in Rome a stewes of .xx. or .xx. thousande houres, takynge of euery one trybute yere∣ly / and his byshoppes wyth all other dyscyples folowyng thensample mygh∣tyly / and the pope therwyth not content, but set vppe a stewes of boyes also agaynste nature.

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Fye no ferther here is to mych all redy. what honest eare can endure suche a bestely processe, so full of abomynable fylthy lyes / wherof theffecte and conclusyon is, that syth the pope and all the whole clergye be suche in euery kynde [ B] of abomynacyon, as this abomynable beste abomynably belyeth theym / the fayth were faythlesse and frutelesse by whyche a man by theyr preachynge byleued that any vyce were synne.

But fyrste he forgeteth yet agayne the poynt / & to seke occasyon of raylynge, he tourneth the questyon from the whole catholyke chyrche to the clergy alone, and somtyme to the pope alone.

Bysydes this, all be yt great synne yt is for any vycy∣ouse person to take vppon hym thoffyce of a preacher•• and to presume to tell other folke theyr fautes byfore he mende his owne, for as mych as mych of his audiēce may take oc¦casyon of his euyll lyuyng to haue the trouth in cōtempte: [ C] yet maye they that rather lyste to take good then harme, fynd therin a great occasyon the more strongly to cōferme them in the trewth. For yf a lechour dysprayse lechery and comende chastyte / or the proude preache agaynste pryde & prayse humylytie / or the couetouse wreche rebuke auaryce and laude lyberalyte / the gloton dyscomende glotony and exhorte all men to abstynen••e, and so forthe in suche other lyke: though these wordes s••me vnsyttynge in suche men∣nys mouthes, yet maye he that lysteth well to consydre therin th•• great strength of trouth and of vertue, whyche expresseth his owne prayse oute of the mouth of his enmy, and hym that takeh shame thereby, and holdeth a torche lyght and bryght burnynge in his owne hande to lette the people the better beholde his fautes, and the more to won¦der on hym selfe in honou•• of the trouth.

wold god yet that Luther the l••chour wold ••••ys grow [ A] to y^• same faute, and blame hym s••lfe, and such other as be freres and wedde nūnes. I wolde wene yt myght do good both to some other and hym selfe to. For therby shold men se the thynge to be very nought, when euen he that doth it can not but dysprayse yt / and hym selfe shold at the worst way haue but one faute for twayne. For now is he bothe a lechour and an heretyke to / and then sholde be but the tone / and yet myght therby grow to farther grace, and af¦ter be neyther nother. How be yt i•• the clergy as there be bad / of so be there also god be thanked good, and men such excellent vertue, that these heretykes hertes eue•• fre••e for enuye to se theym. And syth they can in no wyse saye nay•• there to / they blaspheme all holy lyuynge. And therfore he that lyste to lerne of good men when Tyndale ha••h all be∣lyed theym / yet in the catholyke chyrch he may fy••d them. [ B]

Fynally to proue you that Tindale doth in this raylyng but proue hym selfe a fole: ye wote well that o•••• mater is not of the lyuynge but of the doctryne. And then can not hym selfe say nay, but that in the poyntes wherin hym self and the catholyque chyrche varye, we agre / and he vary∣eth from all the old holy doctours synnys thapostles tyme to his own / in whose holy lyuyng he neyther doth nor can fynde defaute. And yf he saye that hym selfe agreeth wyth theym, and not we: let hym yet agayne fynde of theym all some one, that euer helde yt lawfull for a frere to wedde a nunne.

And then as for the doctryne of the catholike chyrch (for of the doctryne is our mater) the trouth of that is so great and of such vygour and ••••rength, that those whych are in [ C] the ryght faythe therof and abydynge therin, do preache and say the trouth, and call the synne synne, be the prea∣cher neuer so synfull hym selfe / all though his knowen syn ioyned vnto his preachynge, shulde neuer so sore turne to his owne shame. For neuer was there wyth vs ••o great a lechour, that euer wolde preache that lechery w••s no syn. But this is the prechyng of frere Luther, frere Huyskyn, frere Lambert, and Swynglius, and of this blessed apost¦le of these apostatas wyllyam Tyndale. whych as they be of all abominable wreches the most shamefull / so are of all abomynable bestes y^• most shamelesse, a••owyng the breche of theyr vowys and theyr leche••y wyth nunnys•• mete for

[ A] men of honestye, and for good and lawefull matrymonye. whyche thynge from Cristes deth vnto theyr owne dayes, neuer was there heretyke so farre fallen in fylth, no nor Turke I trow, nor Sarasen, nor Iew, nor Paynem ney∣ther, that euer sayd such a thyng, or durste for very shame, so that all the world therby may well perceyue and se, that of all shamefull shamelesse sectys that the deuyll can dy∣uyse, these be the botome of the draffe tubbe and the moste poysoned dregges.

But now doth Tyndale after this to proue that the cre∣dence geuen vnto the catholyque chyrche, muste nedes be weke & feble / brynge in the Turkes & the Iewes agaynst vs in this maner wyse.

Tyndale.

[ B] The Turkes beynge in ••omber fyue tymes mo then we, knowlege one god, and byleue many thynges of god, moued onely by the authoryte of theyr el¦ders / and presume that god wyll not let so great a multytude erre so longe tyme. And yet they haue erred and ben faythlesse this .viii. hundred yeres. And the Iewes byleue thys daye as myche as the carnall sorte of theym euer byleued, moued also by the authoryte of theyr elders onely / and thynke that yt is impossible for thē to erre, beyng Abr••hams seed, and the chyldren of thē to whom the promysses of all that we byleue were made. And yet they haue erred and ben faythlesse thys .xv. hundred yeres. And we of lyke blyndne••••e byleue only by the authoryte of our elders, and of lyke pryde thynke that we can not erre, beynge such a multytude. And yet we se how god in the olde te¦stament dyd let the great multytude erre, reseruynge alwaye a lytle flo••ke to call the other backe agayne, and to testyfye vnto them the ryght waye.

More.

Lo good chrystē reders, in these wordes Tindale geueth [ C] a specyall goodly doctryne, y^t yf we byleue the doctryne of the catholyke chyrch of Cryste: then haue we no more suer¦tye of our fayth then the Turkes haue of theyrs or y^• Iew∣es of theyrs / consyderynge that the Turkes excede vs so farre in nomber and the Iewes matche vs in tyme.

I meruayle myche that Tyndale addeth not vnto them the Paynems also, as his mayster Luther dyd in the same argument. For the Paynems passed bothe the catholyque Chrysten chyrche, and the false Iewes, and Turkes, and Sarasyns, and the false heretyq••es to, as w••ll in tyme as nomb••••.

But yet I meruayle myche more that he hath so lytle wyt as to wene, that the bryngynge in any of them all were

any thynge at all to purpose. For well ye wote good [ A] crysten reders, that as I haue touched all redy we haue in geuynge credence vnto the catholyke chyrche two maner of mocions / one kynde of outwarde causes such as myght yf the mater were wordely, moue mānys reason to the full agrement and consent therof. And that the tother mocyon is in them that byfore theyr baptysme haue vse of reason, the goodnesse of god fyrste preuentynge them, wyth the oc¦casyons of some outwarde mocyon / and then walkynge and workynge wyth theyr confyrmable wyllys into the cō¦sent of that godly treuth, and therwyth geuynge theym by baptysme that grace to is rewardable wyth glorye, but yf some other synne be the let vpon theyr part. And in such as are baptised yong, y^e inwarde mocyon is the same goodnes of god preuentynge theym, with the habytuall fayth infoū¦ded in the sacrament of baptysme. Uppon the seed wherof [ B] wyth the good helpe of goddes grace, there spryngeth af∣ter in the good and well appliable wyll of man, the frute of credence and bylyefe whyche they geue vnto crystes catho¦lyke chyrche, accordyng to his owne commaundement vp¦pon the preachyng of the same chyrch / in the reasons why¦che the same chyrche by goddes good ordynaunces geueth as outwarde meanes of credence and enducynge to the by¦lyefe, both of yt selfe and of the scrypture & of euery part of fayth, as I byfore spake of and shall hereafter speke more.

Now as for thys inwarde cause / we can not bynde the hethen by. For though we tell yt theym / they wyll not by∣leue vs, or peraduenture tell vs the same tale of them selfe, and saye that god moueth theym.

But vn the tother syde vnto all good crysten men thys [ C] thynge muste nedes make yt open, that Tyndale in bryn∣gynge forth for his part the Iewes & the Turkes, to make vs byleue that we maye be as well deceyued in byleuynge the catholyke chyrche syth Crystes days hyther to, that the bokes of the new testamēt be the trew scrypture of god, as the Iewes in theyr Talmud or the Turkes in theyr Alcha¦ron are deceyued in the beleuynge of theyr elders, is a ve∣ry frantyke blyndenesse.

For syth amonge all crysten men this is a playne bylyef, that the chyrche of Criste is gouerned by the spyryte of god in y^• trewth, & that all those other chyrches are gouerned be the deuyll in theyr falsed: now is to good chrysten peo∣ple

[ A] Tyndals argument none other then euen thys. The chyrches that are gouerned in falsshed by the deuyll that ledeth them into falsshed••* 1.54 maye be deceyued and erre / ergo the chyrche that is gouerned in trewth by the spyryte of god that ledeth it into all trouth, maye be deceyued and erre in lyke wyse, syth they be not so many as the false Tur¦kes be, nor haue not cōtynued so longe as the false Iewes haue.

Is not thys a substancyall reason trowe you, fyrste for the inwarde causes of our fayth and theyrs / whiche causes arre bytwene vs and them more farre vnlyke, thenne are theyr fayth and oures.

And then as for the outwarde causes of our fayth, Tyn¦dale maketh as though we had none other but lengthe of [ B] tyme or nomber of peple, wherin some fase sectes passe vs. But surely yf we were now to talke wyth eyther Turke o•• Iewe, as we be to talke wyth these heretykes / we wolde haue outwarde causes inough to laye, wherfore the catho¦lyke chyrche ought of reason to be byleued before any of theyrs, and agaynste them all to / and yet mo good causes haue we for that poynt to lay agaynst these heretykes then agaynste all the tother.

But Tyndale wyll happely saye to me therin, as Lu∣ther answered the kynges grace, that the Turke wolde laughe at all our reasons. But thys is a wyse answere su∣rely, that we sholde be ashamed of euery reason that the Turke wolde laugh at / and laye for•••• none but suche as [ C] we be sure the Iewes and turkes wo•••• allowe. Then must our sauyour Cryste haue holde hys p••ace / for the Iewes alowed not hys. But lyke wyse as though all wolde not, yet many dyd / and euyn so sholde they now I dowte it not. And lyke wyse as though the reman••ūt wolde not, yet had they causes inough shewed them why they sholde: so shold these now haue to.

But syth Tyndale wyll in no wyse agre, that for the ca∣tholyke chyrche we coulde lay any causes vnto the Iewes or Turkes, wherfore they sholde of reason gyue any cre∣dence to it, and vppon the credence of it to take the newe testament ••••r scrypture, as saynt Austayne sayth that hym selfe dy••: then yf we wolde any sende thyther to preche the trewe ••••••ypture amonge them, and make them fyrste p••r∣ceyue

and byleue which bokes be the very scrypturys, syth [ A] they wolde byleue of lykelyhed as one man of the catho∣lyke chyrche in that poynt better the••ne all the whole / and that poynt muste nedes by Tyndales doctryne be knowen fyrste, as the thynge wythout whyche nothynge can be pro¦ued: there is no remedy but sende some of Tyndals elec∣tes. For the trewe reasons and effectuall, haue onely ye wote well they.

But fyrste how shall we knowe them ••yes well inough perde. For yf they be freres, we knowe them by weddynge of nonnes. well sende Luther then. How be it that may not be / for he sholde be but laughed at there, bycause he allow∣eth the reason of saynt Austayne that he knoweth the s••ryp¦ture by the catholyke chyrche, bycause the chyrche hath he [ B] sayth the knowledge and dyscernyng therof from all other wrytynge specyally gyuen by god.

well wyll we do well then, lette vs sende so good a man as no man can dowte of, but that he is an electe / and who sholde that be but holy wyllyam Tyndale hym selfe. what reasons wyll he laye to them. He wyll saye by lykelyhed, O all you Iewes and all you Turkes to, and all ye Sarace∣nys hedes, harken here vnto me, and geue credence vnto me, and byleue me, that these bokes be the very scripture of god / but byleue it neuer the rather though all the knowen catholyke chyrche saye so, for they be all as badde as ye be, and ech of you as credyble as any of them / and then be you Iewes of more antyquyte then they, and ye Turkes and ye Saracenys fyue ••ymes so many as they / and therfore [ C] why sholde you byleue the catholyke chyrch for any thyng that they can saye vnto you. But I shall tell you whom ye shall byleue. I saye ye shall byleue me, and I shall tell you a good cause why. For I haue a felynge fayth. For what so euer I tell you, god hathe hym selfe so wryten it in myne herte, that I fele it to be trewe. And therfore thys is a playne euydent open cause wherfore ye sholde by∣leue me.

Lo when Tyndale wold telle them thys tale they could not ye wote well laugh therat, for it coulde not be but the felynge fayth of hys f••lse harte they muste n••des fele at theyr owne fyngers end••.

••ath he not wysely ••andeled thys obieccyon of the

[ A] Iewes & the Turkes / and towarde the auoydynge of the catholyke chyrche, & prouyng of hys felyng fayth brought them to a goodly purpose.

But then cometh he forth in the ende of hys chapyter, and shewed vs that god euer in the olde testament dyd let the great multytude erre reseruynge, all waye a lytle floke to call them backe agayne, and shewe them the ryght way. And so he meneth that god hath now sent hym & hys may∣ster and those other holy heretykes, to teche the catholyke chyrche the ryght waye.

But as I haue sayd before, god hath promysed to sende hys holy spyryte into thys chyrche, to teche it all trouth, & to remayne therwyth hym selfe also perpetually to guyde hys chyrche from suche fallynge of hys catholyke chyrche [ B] from the ryght fayth, that he sholde nede to sende any such coll prophetes as these heretykes are, to teche hys chyrche the fayth / as it appereth well by the olde holy sayntes of euery age syth thapostles dayes, wyth whose doctryne as it is by theyr bookes proued, the doctryne of the catholyke chyrche agaynst all these heretykes agreeth.

Also whan he sent hys prophetes of olde, he was wonte alway to sende honest men on hys erand, that proued them selfe by myracles / and not suche rascayle rybauldes as call them selfe apostles, and proue it but by iestynge and ray∣lynge.

Goddes messengers were wonte also to teche euery man clennesse and honesty, & not as these bestely felowes do teche folke to breke theyr vowys, and freres to flye forth and wedde nonnes.

[ C] More ouer yf the trewe flocke be alwaye a lytle flocke / then be not these heretykes now the trewe flocke. For they be now growen not onely to a greate maynye of menne, but also a great shrewde sorte of flockes, flockyng in many countrees of chrystendome full faste, and in many places mych harme haue done, and mych more they go aboute.

And therfore syth in some places the heretykes be now the gretter multytude, and the catholykes the lytle flocke: there are then yet (syth the treuth standeth by Tyndales tale in the lytlenesse of the flocke) the catholykes becomen the faythfull folke, and the heretykes the false, wythoute any chaunge of bylyefe on eyther other syde.

Fynally chose few folke that god was wont to reserue [ A] or sende to techethe worlde the ryghte waye, dyd agre in theyr doctryne. For ellys had the worlde ye w••te well not wyste whyche of them to folowe. But now ••hese herety∣kes be almost as many sectes as men, & neuer one agreeth wyth other / so that yf the worlde were to lerne the ryghte waye of them, that mater were mych lyke, as yf a man wal¦kynge in a wyldernesse that fayne wolde fynde the ryghte waye towarde the towne that he entēded, sholde mete with a mayny of lewde mockynge knauys / whyche when the poore man hadde prayed them to tell hym the waye, wolde gete them into a roundell turnynge theym backe to backe, and then speke all at onys, and eche of them tell hym, thys waye / eche of theym poyntynge forthe wyth hys hande the waye that hys face standeth. [ B]

Fynally that lytell flocke that god reserued to call the great multitude backe, and to shewe the worlde the ryghte waye / they were euer yet a knowen company. For yf men myghte not haue knowen theym, they neuer coulde haue herde them nor byleued them as folke of the trewe flocke, yf no man coulde haue knowen whyche were the trewe flocke.

And then muste it theruppon folow, that yet the trewe chyrche muste be a knowen chyrche and not an vnknowen sorte of electes onely / wyth such an vnknowen kynde of fe¦lynge fayth, as no man can fele in hys felowe / nor no man can fele in hym selfe, but he whom all trewe faythfull folke may well and easyly fele for a false fumblynge heretyke, whyche by that false fumblynge fayth feleth that the bles∣sed [ C] sacrament of the aultar the sacred body of our sauyour hym selfe, sholde haue none honour done to it nor be taken for no thynge ellys but eyther for bare brede or starche.

But now when he hath so well quytte hym wyth y^• false turkes and the Iewes, agaynste the trewe catholyke chyr∣che of Cryste / he commeth forth wyth an other chapyter / and therin for the fynall conclusyon of all hys mater con∣cernynge the knowlege of the very chyrche, and for the fy∣nall solucyon of the seconde argument made for the catho∣lyke chyrche, and for the fynall confyrmacyan of hys false felynge fayth, he knytteth vppe all hys dyspycyons with these wyse wordes that folow.

[ A] Tyndale.

¶How thys worde chyrche hath•• double interpretacyon.

Thys is therfore a sure conclusyon as. Paule sayth Rom. 9, that not all they that are of I••aell are I••aelyt••s / neyther bycause the be Ab••ahams seed are they all A••rahams chyldren / but they onely that folowe the ••ayth of Abra∣••am. Euen so now none of them that byleue with theyr mouthes moued with the authoryte of theyr elders onely / that is, none of theym that byleue with mayster Mores fayth, the popes fayth, and the deuyls fayth, whyche maye st••nde (as mayster More confesseth) with••all maner abomynacyons, haue t••e ryght fayth of Cryste or are of his chyrche. But they onely that repente and f••le that the lawe is good, and haue the lawe of god wryten in theyre h••r∣tes, and the fayth of our sauyour Iesus euen with the spyry••e of god. There is a carnall I••aell and a spyrytuall. There is Isaac and Ismaell, Iacob ••nd [ B] Esau. And Ismael persecuted Isa••c, and Esau Iacob, and the fleshely the spy¦rytuall. wherof Paule complayned in his tyme persecuted of his carnall bre∣thern / as we do in our tyme, and as the electe euer dyd ••••d shall do tyll the wlordes ende. what a multy••ude came out of Egypt vnder Moyses, of why¦che the scripture testifyeth that they byleued moued by the myracles of Mo¦ses / as Symon magus byleued by the reason of Philippes mir••cles A••••es .viii. Neuer••helesse the scrypture testyfye••h that .vi. hundred tho••sande of those byleuers peryshed thorow vnbelyefe ••nd leste theyr carcasses in the wylder∣nesse, and neuer entred into the lande that was promysed them. And euen so shall the chyldren of mayster M••••es faythlesse fayth made by the persu••sy∣syon of man, lepe shorte of the reste whyche our sauyour Iesus is ••••sen vnto. And therfore let them embrace this present worlde as they do, whose chyl∣dren they are though they hate so to b•• called. And hereby ye se that it is [ C] a playn and an euydēt cōclusion as bright as the son shinyng, that t••e trouth of goddes word depēdeth not of the treuth of the congregacyon. And ther••••re whē thou art asked, why thou byleuest that thou shalt be saued thorow Crist, and of suche lyke pryncyples of oure fayth / answere•• thou ••••••test and fe••••••••e that yt is trew. And when he asketh how thow knowest that yt is tre•• / ••n∣swere, bycause yt is wryten in thyne herte. And yf he aske who wrote y•• / answere, the spyryte of god. And yf he aske how thou camest fyrst by y•• / t•••• hym, whether by redynge of bokes or hearyng yt preached•• as by an ••utw••rd instrument / but that inwardly thou wa••te taught by the spyryt of god. And yf he a•••••• whether thou byle••este yt not bycause yt is wryten in bokes, or by∣cause ••he ••re••tes so preache / answere no not now / but only bycause it is writē in thyne her••e; and bycause the spyryte of god so preacheth and so testyfyeth vnto thy soule. And saye though at the begynnynge tho•• wast moued by re∣dynge or preachyng as the Samarytanis were by the wordes of the woman / yet now thou byleuest yf not therfore any longer, but only bycause thou hast

herde yt of the spyryte of god and red yt wryten in thyne herte. [ A]

And concernynge outwarde teachynge / we allege for vs scrypture elder then any chyrche that was this .xiiii. hundred yeres, and olde autentyke storyes whych they had brought aslepe where with we confound theyr lyes. Remember ye not how in our owne tyme, of all that taughte grammer in Englande not one vnderstode the latyne tonge? how came we then by the latyne tonge agayn? not by them, though we lerned certayne rules and pryn¦cyples of them, by whyche we were moued and hadde an occasyon to seke forther, but oute of the olde authors. Euen so we seke vppe olde antyquy¦tes, out of whych we lerne, and not of our chirch, though we receyued many pryncyples of our chyrche at the begynnynge, but more falshed amonge then trewth.

More.

Now good chrysten reders, here haue I geuen you all his whole processe to gether vppon an hepe, wherwyth he [ B] endeth all his dyspycyons concernynge the knowelege of the very chyrche. For now after all that ended / he falleth from dispycyons to preachyng, from his mater of the tytle of his boke, that is to wyt whyche is the chyrche, vnto the two great cōclusyons that god hath he sayth wryten in the hartes of all his electes, The tone is he sayth the fayth of Cryste, by whych they knowe how god is to be honoured, and therby they fele & perceyue well inough wythin theyre owne hartes, y^t the sacramentes be as Tyndale sayeth but bare sygnes and memoryales, and none effectuall instru∣mentes of grace, nor the sacramente of the auter nothynge but brede or statche. And the second conclusyon is the loue of theyr neyghbours as them selfe, by whyche they can suffycy∣ently iudge sayeth he betwene good and euyll, ryght and wronge, goodly and [ C] vngoodly, in all couersacyon, dedes, lawes, bergaynys, couenauntes, ordynaun¦ces, and decrees of men / and knoweth the offyce of euery degree, and the dewe honour of euery person / so that by this ye may well perceyue that who so euer haue any lesse knowlege then this, he is by Tyndales owne doctryne none electe.

But now syth god hath hym self wrytē these cōclusyons so fully in theyr hertes / Tyndale nedeth not yt semeth to make them so longe a sermon. But as though he fered yet for all his wordes, that god had not so fayre writen yt, but that some of theym coulde not rede yt / he goth forthe wyth his collacyon of a great length, and techeth them after his fashyon what is very worshyppynge, and then a longe pro¦cesse of images, pylgrymage, sacramentes, and ceremo∣nyes.

[ A] In all whyche longe sermon he sayth at length no∣thynge, but eyther such as is so comenly knowen allredy, y^t a man may here his wife tell as mych to her mayed, or ellis so folyshe that a very nodypoll uydiote myghthe a shamed to saye yt / or fynally so false and blasphemouse, as scante∣ly the deuyll durste teache yt / sauynge that in the ende he gathereth a lytle his fyue wyttes well about hym, and ex∣powneth there the wordes of y^e pore Kentyshman whych I reherse in my dyaloge concernyng Sandwyche hauen de∣stroyed thorow Ten••erden steple. And there to knyt vppe all his whole sermon wyth / he concluded agaynst me that of very trouth the byelding of Tenterden steple and other steples and chyrches in the realme, haue ben in dede the ve¦ry destruccyon both of Sandwyche hauen, and Douer ha¦uen, [ B] and all the other hauens of Englande, and of all the good bysyde that by good polycy myght in any wyse haue comen an growen to the realme.

And thus wyth this goodly quyppe agaynste me for his cum patre qui lakkyng no more but an exhortacyon in the ende that men sholde therfore pull downe Tenterden steple, and so sholde Sandwyche hauen amende, and pull down all the chyrches in y^e realme & so sholde nede no more policy to make a mery world: the good godly man maketh and ende of his holy sermon, & gaspeth a litle and galpeth, and geteth hym downe of the pulpet.

But for as myche good reders, as all this long sermon of his goth farre from oure present purpose, whyche is as ye wote well onely to wyt whych is the very chyrch / whych [ C] one thynge founden oute answereth and auoydeth playn as hym selfe well perceyueth, all hys whole hepe of here∣syes / and for as myche also as the poyntes of his sermon do specyally pertayne to sondrye dyuerse chapyters of my dyaloge: I shall hereafter in answerynge of his partycu∣lare obieccyons, touche in theyr proper places, the deuy∣lysh doctryne of this his holy collacyon. And for this tyme wyll I touche only those wordes that I haue rehersed you and examyne a lytle farther his felynge fayth, and vppon his owne wordes wyll I make it open. And on the wordes of his felowes and his mayster to, that none can be the ve¦ry chyrch but onely the catholyke knowen / and therwyth wyll I fynyshe all this present worke.

Let vs therfore now consydre what great thynge thys

man hath taught vs in this chapyter. To make vs clerely [ A] perceyue y^• only electis y^t can not synne though they synne, be the very chyrche / and that the catholike knowen chyrch is not the chyrche: he telleth vs here for the fynall specyall profe that this worde chyrch a••h a double interpretacyon / and that there is a carnall Israel and a spyrytuall Israell / and that euen so is yt in the chyrche.

what a great hygh secrete mistery this man teacheth vs here? any other then the selfe same that I haue tolde hym all redy mo tymes then his hande hath fyngers that in the chyrche there be both good and badde? And yet is yt for all that the very chyrch? as the arche of Noe was the ryght fy¦gure therof that hadde therin both clene and vnclene, and of the menne also not all electes and good / for of Noe hys awne sonnes one ye wote well was so bad,* 1.55 that his owne [ B] father accursed hym.

And as the parable of our sauyour sygnyfyeth his net, that is his chyrche,* 1.56 catcheth & kepeth both good fyshe and bad, tyll yt come oute of t••e wauys of this worlde vnto the banke of the tother / where the nette shall be taken vp and the fysh sorted, and the good saued and the bad cast away.

* 1.57And the felde of god shall ••ere both wede and corne, tyll the heruest come that both be reped / and y^e corne cōueyed in to the baron, and the wede caste into the fyre.

ye and many very electe is at some tyme full noughte, and many somtyme full good, that yet wyll waxe after nought, and go to the deuyll at laste. And therfore I can wyshe no better for my purpose, then the very thynge that [ C] Tyndale here layeth agaynst yt. For syth that in the catho¦lyke chyrche be both good & bad, and oute of the catholyke chyrche be none good but all bad / as none were saued left out of Noe hys shyppe: this one thynke alone lo euen in the begynnynge brought in by Tyndale hym selfe, is suffy¦cyēt for all the mater for my part agaynst him, as a thynge clerely prouynge that onely the catholyke chyrche is the ve∣ry trew, and all his other conterfete and false.

Now where yt pleaseth hym to ieste and say, Euen so nowe none of them that byleue with theyr mouthes moued with the authoryte of theyr elders onely / that is, none of theym that byleue with mayster Mores fayth, the popes fayth, and the deuyls fayth, whyche maye stonde (as mayster More con¦fesseth) with all maner abomynacyons, haue the ryghte fayth of Christe or of his chyrche: euery man here well seeth howe lowde he bylyeth

[ A] me, and what foly he layeth forth in thys lytle space.

For fyrste I neuer sayed that any man byleueth wyth hys mouth / whyche though it be the member wyth whych a man is bounden to confesse hys fayth, yet is it not the member wyth whyche a man byleueth, no more thenne his h••le. And therfore in thys poynte Tyndale belyeth me onys.

More ouer I sayde neuer that men byleue moued with the au••horyte of theyr elders onely / but I say that sauinge for the credence gyuen to the authoryte of the knowen ca∣tholyke chyrche, Tyndale hym selfe had not knowen nor yet were sure at thys daye, whych bokes be the trewe scryp¦ture of god. But I say therwyth that lyke as god hath or∣dered the bodyly wyttes as wayes towarde the vnderstan∣dynge [ B] of reason / so towarde thynges aboue reason he hath ordayned the bodyly wyttes and reason bothe, for wayes towarde the persuasyon. But yet syth the ende is heuenly and so hygh aboue the nature of man, that the nature cor∣••upte, coulde not wythout helpe of god attayne and reche therto: god helpeth forth them therfore that are wyllynge wyth hys supernaturall grace, towarde the inclynacion of reason into the assent and obedyence of fayth / and that the whole catholyke chyrche be it neuer so syke & sore in other synnes besyde, is yet ledde into the trouth of bylyefe by the spyryte of god. And thys is it that I haue euer sayed / and therfore here Tyndale bylyeth me twyse.

Now where he sayth that the fayth whyche may sta••de [ C] as I confesse wyth all maner of abomynacyons, is not the ryght fayth of Cryste nor of hys chyrche, but is as he sayth the popes fayth, and my fayth, and the deuyls to / and that the ryght fayth is onely in them that repente and fele that the lawe is good, and haue the lawe of god wryten in theyr hartes, and the fayth of oure sauyour Iesus euyn with the spyryte of god: I saye that the very thynge that I saye of fayth alone, that it maye stande wyth all abomynable de∣des, Tyndalys owne felynge fayth feleth and affermeth the sam••. For Tyndale sayeth that hys electes ha∣uynge hys felynge fayth, may and do by the frute of synne remaynynge in theym and brekynge oute at theyr frayle membres, fall in to ryghte horryble dedes / and that yet theyre faythe standeth stylle therewyth and neuer fayleth at any tyme, and that bycause therof all those horryble

dedes be they neuer so greate abomynacyons, he yet no [ A] dedely synne.

That Tyndale thus playnely sayth, ye haue your selfe sene in my fourth boke before. And then that it playnely fo¦loweth vppon hys tale, that wyth hys owne felynge fayth all maner abomynacyō maye stande, and howres, & dayes, and monethes, and yeres, abyde and dwell togyther, ye se playnely your selfe. And therfore ye se also as playnely, y^• syth I neuer sayd as Tyndale reherseth me, that men may byleue wyth theyr mouth, nor neuer cōmended fayth alone for suffycyēt as Tyndale here bereth me in hande, makyng fayth alone to be myne / and in that I sayd that fayth may be not alone onely wythout other vertues, but stande also with all abomynable dedes and vyce: I sayd but she same & yet not all the same for fayth alone, that Tyndale sayth [ B] hym selfe for hys owne felynge fayth / not alone but accom¦panyed as he wolde haue it seme, with hope & cheryte both. These thynges beyng thus, when he lyketh hym self well, and weneth he iesteth as properly as a camell daunseth, in callynge it my fayth, and the popes fayth, and the deuyls fayth / euery man I wene that well marketh y^• mater, wyll be lykely to call hys propre scoffe but a very colde conceyt of my goffe, that he founde and tok•• vp at sottys hoffe.

I say to Tyndale yet agayne, that as ferforth as pertey¦neth onely to the nature of fayth, that is to wyt to the bare bylyefe alone / that fayth that maye stande wyth all maner of ahomynacyon is a very ryght fayth and a trewe. But I saye that though it be as it is, bothe ryght and trewe / yet is it not suffycyent to bryng a man to heuyn, yf it not onely [ C] maye but also do, stande wyth any kynde of abomynable synne, bycause it is than lewd Luthers fayth and Tindals fayth, y^• is to saye fayth not alone, but fayth coupled with abomynable synne.

But now that fayth alone, that is to saye bylyefe alone is very ryght fayth and bylyefe / is a poynt whyche I haue all redy proued hym mych more ofte I dare well saye then hymselfe hath sayde masse thys moneth / and therfore I wyll not now laboure mych about it. And to say the trouth the thynge is so playne & open of it selfe, that sauynge for thimportune bablynge of these heretykes, no man sholde euer haue neded to go aboute the profe at all.

For what sholde I go about to proue the thyng that saynt

[ A] Poule proueth for me, whych sayth of hym selfe y^• though he had all fayth / yet yf he lacke cheryte therwith he were no thynge.* 1.58 what nede I now to go any ferther therin, syth saynt Iamys reasoneth, dysputeth, & dyssyneth the mater, cōcludyng that fayth maye be wethout good wurkes / but then affyrmyng that when it so is,* 1.59 than it is dede / not dede in the nature of fayth, but dede as vnto the state of salua∣cyon / as the men of whome oure sauyour spake, where he sayth,* 1.60 Let the dede men very theyr dede men, and folowe thou me / he ment not I suppose that men naturally ded in dede sholde bere the dede corps to beryenge.

ye sayth Tyndale but yet thys is not the ryght fayth of Cryste. I saye yes / for as farre as belongeth to the onely fayth•• that is to saye to the onely bylyefe of these poyntes & [ B] artycles that Cryste wyll haue vs bounden to byleue. yet sayth Tyndale thys fayth is not suffycyent for saluacyon, but yf it haue with it bothe hope and cheryte. what nedeth Tyndale to tell vs that tale? who dyd eue•• say nay to that•• But yet be fayth, hope, and cheryte, thre dyuers & dystincte vertues. For as saynt Poule sayth, fayth, hope, & cheryte / the greter of these is cheryte.* 1.61

yet sayth Tyndale tho••e thre be thre systers that neuer be asūder / so that who so euer hath any one hath all. That is playne vntrew. For yf that heresye were trew / then who so euer had fayth had all thre / and who so euer had all thre had all that euer he neded. But now bycause of that false heresye, lest he that byleueth ryght in all the artycles, shold wene that therefore he lacked not cheryte, & so were saufe [ C] inough & neded no more: this was y^e very cause for which both saynt Poule and saynt Iamys,* 1.62 labored so myche to tell vs that Tindale lyeth,* 1.63 and that a man may haue fayth and lacke yet bothe hope and cheryte.

ye sayth Tyndale but that is but an hystorycall fayth, that a man getteth by hym self of his onely naturall power & is not the wurke of god in his soule / and therfore y^• faith is but faynt & feble, and soone gone agayne / & is therfore no ryght fayth nor no chrysten fayth. For the ryghte fayth is wrought & wryten alway by god hym selfe in the mānes harte, and therfore it is neuer withoute hope and cheryte wrought & wryten within the harte togyther with y^• fayth / and is therfore a felyuge ••ayth that neuer can fayle, & ther ••n neuer can ceace both to hope well and wurke well.

Thys is of trouth the whole somme and effect of Tyn∣dales [ A] holy tale, wherin he dyd somwhat yf he wolde onys proue vs halfe. But fyrst I denye y^t euery historicall faith, y^t is to say euery hystorycall bylyefe & credēce, is so faynt & so feble, that it is so soone gone as Tindale sayth it is. For we se profe inough that wyth many men it standeth styll all theyr lyfe be the thynge trewe or fal••e / as the false story of Machomet many Turkes take for so trewe, that they wyll not withstandyng many suffycyēt causes, wherfore of reason they sholde reken it for false, they wyll I saye yet of obstynacy stand styll therin and abyde bond slaues in chry¦sten contrees vppon the borders of Turkaye, ye and dyde theron to rather then byleue the contrary.

I saye forther that it is not trewe, that man in the by∣lyefe [ B] of the artycles of the chrystē fayth, geteth that bylyefe by hym selfe of his own naturall power, wythout the helpe of god wurkynge wyth hym / and yet I speke here of bare bylyefe, cheryte not yet ioyned wyth it.

For syth euery man that seketh for the bylyefe, and en∣deuoreth hym self therto, purposeth therby to seke the way to saluacyon: the corrupte nature of man can neuer begyn to entre into that iournaye, nor walke forth one fote ther∣in, but yf he be bothe fyrste preuented by grace, and haue it walke wyth hym styll.* 1.64 For our sauyour sayth, wythout me can ye nothynge do.

But lyke wyse as a man maye by goddes helpe that cal¦leth vppon euery man, entre in towarde the bylyefe, & yet leue agayne ere he gete it / and byleue some one poynt and [ C] yet leue of at an other: so maye he go forth wyth god into all the poyntes of bylyefe, and yet leue of and lacke hope. He maye olso go forth in bylyefe and hope to, ye and ouer greate hope to / and yet for the purpose of some flesshely de∣lyte whyche he is not in mynde to leue, he maye leue of and lacke cheryte.

For though the deuyll maye besyde such thynges as he verely knoweth, byleue some suche artycles as we do wyth out any preuencyon of grace, for as mych as in him beyng perpetually dampned, the bylyefe can be no furtheraunce towarde saluacion, and therfore can in hym be no mater of the wurke of grace: yet in man to whome the faythe is by goddes ordynaunce prouyded for a waye toward salua∣cion

[ A] tough the way be two longe lanes besyde fayth, & ther¦fore he may leue if he lystere he come at any of y^e lanys end, that is to wytte hope and charyte: yet neuer can he fynde y^e enterynge into the fyrste lane, that to wytte into fayth, nor neuer can he sette forth any fote forwarde in yt, but yf god worke wyth his wyll.

For our sauour sayth, no man can come to me but if my father drawe hym. And who so be fallen into a depe pytte, and thens drawen out / is not drawen from the brynke but from the botome. And so lyke wise god that draweth, draw¦eth euen from the begynnynge and casteth downe the cord of his grace to take holde vpon, wheruppon who so taketh hold and holdeth styll / is by god drawen vnto god, and hel¦peth hym selfe to be drawen. For as saynt Poule sayth, we [ B] helpe forth wyth god.

I say also that after that god hath wrought wyth man¦nys wyll, and called hym by preuencyon of grace at the ye¦res of dyscrecyon, eyther from Iudaisme or fro gentylyty / and fyndynge no lette in the man, hath by baptysme fully infounded the fayth, and wyth hope and cheryte put hym in state of grace, whych is all the wrytyng in the harte that euer I herde of: this man hauynge nowe not fayth alone but hope and cheryte to, and standynge in suche state of grace, that yf he then so deceaced, his soule sholde forthe with flye in to blysse byfore his body were colde: yet when he doth after that infusyon of fayth and grace, any thefte or auowtry, he leseth charyte alway, & by custome of synne somtyme hope to / and leueth but bare fayth, that is to say [ C] bylyefe alone / and somtyme by false doctrine of heretykes leseth some of that to. Aud yet is fayth alone good to be kepte, ye and the very peyces and fragmentes of the fayth also / for they be meanes by whyche a man maye the more easely come to the remanaunt that he hath loste or lakketh. And they helpe wyth goddes forther helpe, to kepe a man from some synne though they kepe hym not from all.

For some man that falleth to thefte, somtyme remem∣bereth yet his baptyme / and beynge by the deuyll entyced to kyll the man, maketh a crosse vppon his brest, & prayeth Crist kepe hym from it / & in aduowtry lyke wyse. And god in that good mynde preuēteth the man by grace, & worketh wyth hys wyll in kepynge hym therefro, as he gaue hym good thoughtes and offred hym his grace yf he wold haue

taken holde therof, to kepe hym 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the tother to. And I [ A] doute not but yf god left hym in the ••one as he l••••te god in the tother / the deuyll that wyth his 〈◊〉〈◊〉 brought his wyll to thefte and aduowtry, wolde ••rynge hym to manslaugh¦ter also, and make hym kyll and murther the tone man for his money, the tother man for his wyfe.

And thus ye se that of Tyndales ryall tale, there is not one worde yet proued trew, sauynge where he sayeth that all which come of Abrahams seed, are nor Abrahams chyl¦dren all / but they only that folowe the fayth of Abraham.* 1.65 For I wyll graunt hym this, and a great deale more so. For I say farther, that all be ••ot Abrahams chyldren that haue Abrahams fayth, but if they, haue his chary••e to, and therby worke his workes. For our sauyour sayth, yf ye be [ B] the chyldren of Abraham, worke ye the workes of Abra∣ham. But ye be sayth he the chyldren of the deuyll, and af¦ter his desyres wyll ye do.

well wyll Tyndale yet say, syth yt is so that M. More graūteth hym selfe, y^t though fayth alone be a very fayth and right and trew, for so farre as it stretcheth, yet bycause yt stretcheth not farre inough to saluacyon, in that yt be∣ynge but alone lakketh both hope and charyte: wherfore doth mayster More speke so myche therof, beyng as hym selfe confesseth but insuffycient / and not rather let yt passe and exhorte euery man to my felyng fayth, that is both suf¦fycyent and also can neuer fayle.

As for the fyrste poynte, the blame be theyrs that haue geuyn the occasyō. For men haue be fayn to speke so mych [ C] of fayth alone, for the sel••e same cause for whyche saynte Poule dyd speke therof,* 1.66 and saynt Iamys both / that is to wyt bycause these heretikes now folowed the false secte of some suche as were then in the apostles tyme, teachynge that fayth alone was inough for saluacyon / as Tyndales mayster Martyne Luther doth manyfestly and playne in his Babilonica, where he sayeth expressely that a chrysten man can neuer be dampned yf he will byleue, nor no synne can damne hym but only in••rudelyte, that is to say lakke of bylyefe. For as for all other ••ynnys what so euer they be, fayth saith he if it eyther abyde styll or come agayn, sup¦peth theym all vppe in a moment / and that god hath no nede of mannys good workes, but that he hath nede of oure fayth alone.

[ A] This maketh folke to speke of fayth alone, and shewe by y^e authorite of saynt Poule and saynt Iamys and many other places of holy scrypture, that Tyndales mayster ho¦ly Luther lyeth.

But yet wyll Tyndale saye, syth I do nowe speke of fayth that is felynge and worketh well, and by reason of the felyng a can not but worke well: what sholde mayster More eyle now to speke any more of the tother faith alone, that for lakke of felynge worketh not / consydery••ge also that I bysyde the fayth that feleth and worketk well, adde repentaunce also of all that men do amysse, what fau•• ther fore fyndeth he now? or what wolde the man haue more?

Fyrste there ys yet cause to speke of fayth alone, by∣cause Tyndale is not an heretyke alone, but y^t there be ma¦ny [ B] mo besyde hym whyche yet saye styll as Luther dyd byfore.

Also there is cause, bycause of Tyndale specyally, which wolde glose Luthers olde heresye wyth these new wordes whych wyll in no wyse stande / wyth whych he wold make the world to wene that in fayth alone he ment fayth, hope, and charyte / and that yt coulde not be that he any other ment, bycause there can be none other fayth but onely that alone y^t hath both hope and charyte therwith: and by thys bald glose that thre vertues be all one vertue, and that one vertue were thre, agaynst both reason and scripture, wold he mokke vnlerned people, and make them byleue that Lu¦ther ment well, and that all other men were so madde that they coulde not vnderstande hym. And therfore to make open this wyly foly of Tyndale, is also a cause why that I [ C] speke so myche of fayth alone, bysydes the necessyte of an∣swerynge hym concernynge his worshyppefull euasyon of his owne felynge fayth, on whych he hopeth that he maye be bold, bycause no man can come into his brest to se what maner of felynge hym selfe feleth there.

But yet hath god of his great goodnes begyled hym, & made hym so madde in the brayne, that he hath vttred hym selfe such thynges with his own pēne, as (our sauyour say¦enge hym self y^t the mouth speketh of the abūdaunce or ful¦nesse of the herte) muste nedes make euery man to fele euen at his fyngers ende, that Tyndale in the botome of hys harte wyth his fulsome felynge fayth, feleth a foule fylthy hepe of false sumblynge heresyes.

For yet is his fayth worse then fayth alone, whyche he [ A] calleth the deuyls fayth and myne. For as saynte Iamys sayth, The deuyls do both byleue & tremble also for drede / but thou (sayeth he to Tyndale and euery suche as Tyn∣dale is, that for his felyng fayth sayth y^t he is so great with god, y^t he may do many horryble dedes wythout any dedly synne) art worse thē y^e deuyll bycause thou doste not drede.

Bysydes this, syth Tyndale teacheth suche a felynge fayth as no fayth as he sayth can saue a soule but yt / and then teacheth therwyth all that toward the getyng therof, no man can any more do then the chylde can to the byget¦tynge of his owne father, that is to say all mos••e lesse then ryght nought: what doth he by this teachynge but teache euery man to syt styll & go nothynge aboute yt•• And when he sayth good workes be nothynge of our wyll, but neces∣saryly [ B] sprynge out of the felyng fayth, and yet be but lyke leues rather then frut / for he sayth they shall neuer haue re¦warde in heuen, b••t that yt were damnable to thynke that euer they shold, tho••gh he wold by other wordes byd men to do them, yet doth he by this tale so strongly teache the contrarye, that who so byleueth hym shall leue theym all vndone.

And when he teacheth repentaunce wythout shryft or pe∣naūce & sayth y^e shryft is the inuencyon of the deuyll / could he euer haue comen into the felyng of that false fayth, but yf the deuyls owne hand had fumbled about his herte?

I passe ouer his false fayth in all the other sacramētes, his calling of Crist{is} blessed body bare cakebrede or sterche, [ C] with his doctryne of lecherye betwene freres and nunnes, and many madde fransyes mo that he techeth besyde / this one thynge is inough and may serue for all to gether, that he teacheth his felynge fayth onely to serue for saluacyon, and wythout whych he sheweth euery mau must nedes go to the deuyll. For other fayth he putteh none, but such as he sayth is frutelesse / and then teachynge therwythall that towarde the getynge of that fayth (whyche excepte he gete he muste nedes to the denyll) no man can any thynge at all do by good endeuour: he both techeth that it were in vayn for any man to labour for yt, or so myche as pray therfore, or in hys herte onys to wyshe yt, syth he coulde wyth no suche thynge helpe any thynge towarde yt, or forsuch de∣syre be any thynge the nerer, but syt euen styll and let god

[ A] worke alone. And yf he fele any good mynde, neuer labour to kepe it. For he that sent it can kepe it yf he lyste. And yf he wyll not what can the man do. And yf he wyll / the man then shall not nede nor nothyng can yf he wold in tornyng towarde god / no more then the hachette can in a mannys hande, which though it may with the mānys hand wurke vppon the tree, yet canne yt not of the owne nature any thynge helpe it selfe, to moue and turne backe towarde the man.

Thys is Tyndalys teachynge / and thys ys hys owne ensample, wherby he sheweth vs that we canne nothynge do in turnynge towarde god, but god doth all alone.

And thys dothe Tyndale tell vs and well and boldely dare / no thynge aferde of god that cryeth the contrary by [] the mouth of Salomon, where he sayth: Turne agayne thou. Sunamyte turne agayne. And where he sayth also,* 1.67 Turne to me and I wyll turne to you / wolde the prophete wene you haue sayd so to hys hachet?* 1.68 Now where he sayth also, Turne you to me & ye shall be saued: Lyke as if man coulde turne wythout god, Cryste wolde not saye wythout me ye can do nothynge / so yf on the tother syde man coulde nothynge at all do in the turnynge towarde hym,* 1.69 no more then can the hachette in turnynge towarde the man, god wolde not so often and so ernestely call and cry vppon vs,* 1.70 nor ••tande and knocke at the dore of oure harte, yf our selfe coulde nothynge do to the openynge therof, and therby to lette hym in.

Now Tyndale not onely techeth vs this vngracyouse [ C] lesson, by whyche he wolde make men so to loke for grace, that for the lacke of theyr owne endeuoure they maye be wurthy to lese it / but also syth he both techeth vs that with out that fayth euery man is dampned / and then techeth vs also, that to the ge••tyng therof no man can nothyng do: he techeth I say by these two thinges togither, euery wreched wylfull beste to lay the weyght of his wrechednes & the ma¦lyce of hys own wreched wyll, vnto the prouydence & pre∣destynacyon of god.

And syth that thys ys so hygh an heresye, so sore blas∣phemynge the hyghe maiestye of god: I saye that Tyn∣dalys felynge faythe ys yet farre wurse, not onely then bare faythe alone, but also thenne no faythe at all / as it

were lesse euyll neuer to haue herde of god nor neuer h••ue [ A] thought of hym neyther then to byleue that there is god, and then so bestely to blaspheme hym.

And where as Tyndale calleth fayth alone, the fayth of the pope and of the deuyll & me / what fayth the pope hath or my selfe eyther, god shalbe iudge and not Tyndale. But surely as for hys owne felynge fayth, hym selfe here ••••erely declareth that it is double as deuelyshe as the deuyls own fayth in dede.

Fyrste for the poynt that saynt Iamys speketh of, by∣cause of hys malepert presumpcyon, affyrmynge that for the felynge fayth he maye do myche horryble dedes wyth∣out any dedely synne, & therfore is as saynt Iamys sayeth oute of the drede of god / and therin worse then the deuyll whyche bothe beleueth and trymbleth also for drede. [ B]

And secundely is hys felynge fayth wurse then the de∣uyls is, in that the deuyll byleueth that the very body of Cryste is in the blessed sacrament of the aulter, and fereth, and trymbleth, and gyueth reuerence therto, ye and vnto the image of Crystes crosse also / as hath in euery ag•• bene proued in sundry places of chrystendome, and dayly appe∣reth yet / where as Tyndale calleth blessynge and crossyng but waggyng of folkes fyngers in the ayre, and fereth not (lyke one that wolde at length wagge hempe in the wynd) to mocke at all such myracles, and say the deuyll fleeth frō folkes blessy••ges as men fle from chyldren faynyng them selfe aferd of them when they lyste to sporte and playe with them nor fereth to mocke the sacrament the blessed body of god, & full lyke a stretche hempe, call it but cake brede [ C] or starche.

And fynally yet is hys faythlesse felyng fayth farre wurse then is the deuyls, in that the deuyll I dare saye byleueth and so sayeth to mennes charge, that suche as do not byle∣ue myghte yf they wolde / and such as do not turne to god, myghte yf they lyste / and layeth vnto the dampned soules the cause of theyr owne dampnacyon, where Tyndale te∣chyng vs y^t they could do no thyng to the contrary, layeth of theyr dāpnacyō all y^e blame in god. which plasphemouse heresye is such an heighnouse kynde of abominable outra∣gyouse blasphemy, y^t I veryly suppose in my mynde, thys poynt y^t Tindals faith feleth in his hert, y^t very wurst dāp∣ned

[ A] deuyll in the depest doungeon in hell wolde abhorre.

And thus hath Tyndale in iestynge vppon my fayth, to thys good poynt wysely broughte hys owne.

And now where he goth forth holyly and precheth vs, that there is a carnall Iraell and a spyrytuall, there is Isaac and Ismaell, Iacob Esau. And that Ismael persecuted Isaac, and ••sau Iacob, and the fleshely the spi¦rytuall, and that saynt Paule complayned that he was persecuted of his carnall bretherne. what wyse conclusyon wyll Tyndale make of thys? Mary no lytell thynge nor lyke no small fole I war∣raunt you. For lo thus he concludeth, and thus do we in ••ur tyme and as the electe euer dyd and shall do tyll the worldes ende. By thys he techeth vs lo that euer more the electes be they that be per∣secuted, and they be the very Isaackes, the very Iacobs, & the very spyrytuallys, and the very apostles, and the very [ B] Paulys / and on the tother syde therfore all they that perse¦cute any man, what can men call them by ryght but Isma∣elys, & Esaues, & reprobates, and very carnall fleshflyes.

And by Tyndals holy tale,* 1.71 when Dauyd was persecu∣ted of Saule, then was Dauyd an electe. But when he per¦secuted eyther the Phylystyens or the rebellys that rose with Absolō,* 1.72 mary fye for shame for that was a foule faut, for then was he a reprobate.

And Moyses when he was persecuted and fled / thenne was he an electe. But when he pursued with the well byle∣uynge people the false idolaters of hys owne cōpany, then was he a reprobate and as many as went wyth hym.

Saynt Poule also when he was persecuted of hys car∣nall brothern, then was he a good man and a very electe••. [ C] But when he persecuted Hymeneus & Alexander,* 1.73 & gaue theyr bodyes to the deuyll to teche them leue theyr blasphe¦mye / then Tyndale maketh hym an Ismaell and an Esau and but a carnall reprobate.

And our sauyour hym selfe also whyle the Iewes perse∣cuted hym then agreeth Tyndale by thys reason y^t he was all that whyle good & holy & spyrituall. But when he made a whyppe onys and persecuted them, & bette them away all that boughte and soulde within the temple,* 1.74 the temple be∣ynge but a temple of stone to (by whych maner of temples Tyndale setteth not a straw) what maner man Tyndale here maketh oure sauyour that he shall tell you hym selfe for me, and in thys wyse reason of hys he telleth vs ye se well all redy.

And euyn in lyke wyse now, when trewe men, catholy∣kes, [ A] and good men do persecute theuys, heretykes, & mur∣derers / then are all trewe men, all catholikes, and all good men, playn Ismaelys, Esaus, and carnall / and the theuys, heretykes, and murderers, without any chaūge of purpose to the better, be by and by bycause they be persewed, not for iustyce but by iustyce, turned frome euyll to good, and so∣daynly be bycome the Isaakes and the Iacobs and the very spyrytuallys.

But now what when the theuys, heretykes, and mur∣derers persecute the trewe men, the catholykes and inno∣centes, as in Swycherlande and Saxony they do / what wyll Tyndale calle theym than? wyll he call theym by theyr ryghte names and tell what they be worthy? I fere me the turnynge of Tyndals felows to the lefte syde, wyll [ B] alter and chaūge the case, and make hym somwhat to mol∣lyfye and mytygate hys iudgement / and playe as the lady dyd, of whome when one asked what that man were wor∣thy whyche hauynge a fayre yonge woman to hys wyfe, toke her mayde besyde, she gaue sentence shortely and sayd he were wurthy by the mary masse to be hanged by y^e necke vppon the nexte bough. But when she was then demaun∣ded ferther, what were that woman worthy, whyche ha∣uynge a goodly yonge gentleman to her husbande, toke yet hys seruaunt bysyde / now in good fayth sayed she and in my mynd, she were yet to blame to, ye and worthy by our blessed lady to be well sayd vnto / and I promyse you fayth¦fully euyn so sholde she in dede, had I the rule of her, but yf she were the better felow. [ C]

Thus wolde (I wene) Tyndale be lothe to gyue any sore sentēce vpon heretykes, what so euer they be ••esydes.

And also I remember me nowe that he can not in dede wyth hys conscyence. For syth they be hys owne electes, and hys euangelycall bretherne, and felowys of his felyng fayth / he hath perde tolde vs all redy that do they neuer so great horryble dedes, they do yet no dedely synne, and ther¦fore worthy ye wote well but lytle prety penaunce, bycause they consent not to theyr synnes but commytte theym all of frayltye.

He sholde be also in thys mater in a meruelouse perplex¦ite yf he were made y^e iuge. For how shold he bere hym self vpryght amonge all hys felowes, when he seeth well hym

[ A] selfe that of them all, as all persew the catholikes, so euery secte perseweth other. For the Hyuskyns and Suynglia∣nys persew the Lutheranys, as Luther hym selfe complay¦neth / and the Lutheranys them agayn / & all they punyshe and kyll the anabaptystes / so that by Tyndales reason there be none very Isaaks, and Israels, and spyrytuals, but the anabaptystes onely, bycause they lacke yet power to persecute. But Tyndale wolde here fynde some shyfte to excuse all the rable, rather then to call the persecucyon that heretykes make any maner synne at all.

we wyll therfore neuer aske Tyndale the questyon nor make hym no iudge in this mater, le••te we make (yf we fo¦low hym) the world swarme full of all myschyefe / for ther¦to fayne wold he bryng yt. But let vs aske saynt Austayn the questyon, whyche agaynste the Donatystes such here∣tykes then in Affryke as these be now in Almayne, playn∣ly sheweth and declareth, that good men do very well, and deserue thanke of god in persecutynge and punyshynge theym that be naughte. And he cōmendeth Sara for per¦secutynge and correctynge her mayde / and sayth not that yf she wolde be an electe and spyrytuall, she muste haue let her mayde haue persewed and beten her. And yet sheweth saynte Austayne farther and by good reason proueth, that these heretykes and all suche other as nought be, be the ve¦ry persecutours euer more them selfe / euen then also when yt semeth that good men persew them.

But we shall let this processe passe, whych patche hath Tyndale here brought in, but for the saufegarde of here∣tykes, and impu••yte of all myscheuouse people, a Iobbe [ C] as yt semeth of some other mannys makynge, and plan∣ted in at pleasure somwhat out of place, for any gay depen¦dyng that yt hath eyther vpon the wordes that go byfore,* 1.75 or the wordes folowynge after vppon yt / sauynge that in the wordes nextensewyng, he putteth vs in mynde of Mo¦ses, whyche beynge a very specyall electe and an holy pro∣phete, and as the scrypture sayth a moste mylde & pytuous man, dyd yet persewe, punyshe, and kyll heretyques, idola¦ters, & scysmatyques, in great nomber among the Iewes / whych thynge destroyeth all that pleasaunt patche which Tyndale hath there put in, to proue all such as persew and punyshe such heretykes and scysmatyques, to be Ismaeles Esus, and very carnall reprobates.

But forthwyth after that patche Tyndale goth forthe [ A] in great haste, and geueth agayne agaynste my fayth a meruelous sore assaute.

Tyndale.

what a multytude came oute of Egypte vnder Moyses, of whyche the scripture testyfyeth that they byleued moued by the myracles of Mo∣ses / as Symon magus byleued by the reason of Philippes miracles Actes. viii. Neuerthelesse the scrypture testyfyeth that .vi. hundred thousande of those byleuers peryshed thorow vnbelyefe and lefte theyr carcasses in the wylder∣nesse, and neuer came into the lande that was promysed them. And euen so shall the chyldren of mayster Mores faythlesse fayth made by the persuasy∣syon of man, lepe shorte of the reste whyche our seuyour Iesus is rysen vnto. And therfore let them embrace this present worlde as they do, whose chyl∣dren they are though they ha••e to be called so. [ B]

More.

The effecte of Tyndales tale is here as yt semeth, to teache vs what a great parell yt were to be by the persua∣syon of men or myracles, persuaded to byleue in Cryst / for as myche as of suche as by Moses and hys myracles were induced to byleue in god, vi.C, thousand left theyr carke∣ses in the wyldernes, and neuer came to the land of behest, wheruppon his conclusyon is and his entent as yt semeth, that in lykewyse who so euer be by men or myracles indu∣ced to byleue in Cryste, shall leue theyr soules in hell, and neuer come to heuen. For that is our lande of byheste.

Now yf this thyng be so perilouse to be {per}suaded by men or myracles / I meruayle somwhat wherfore our sauyour hym self vsed those meanes to persuade theym / and so sore [ C] layed yt vnto the charge of thē,* 1.76 that wyth the worke of his myracles wolde not be persuaded to byleue his wordes / & also dyd rebuke his apostles for that they dyd not byleue them tha•• had seen hym rysen.

But to the intent that no man shall nede to be •• ferd for Tyndales tale, to take the frute of the myracles that god worketh dayly in his catholyque chyrche, to cause yt ther∣by to be perceyued for his very chyrche, and theruppon to be ferme credence geuen therunto, both in lernynge which is the very scrypture of god, and also the trew frutefull sen¦tence of the same, wyth all such other thynges as god hath doth and shall wyth his own spyryt teache vnto his chirch bysyde vnto the worldes ende. we shall a lytle examyne here Tyndales hygh solempne wordes.

[ A] Fyrste wyll we byd hym preue, that all those .vi.C. thou¦sande dyed in desert for vnbelyefe / and be bolde to tell hym that he belyeth the scrypture, for the scripture sayth not so. For the s••rypture sheweth that many of them dyed for in∣ordynate desyre of mete / not in great necessite or for fere of famen, but for the insacyable appetyte of the fulfyllynge, the delycate wantones of theyre taste / whyche not cōtente wyth the plesaunt meate of manna, longed sore and mur∣mured that they myght not frampe in fleshe as the lollar∣des vse now to do on good frydaye.

And therfore had they theyr bone graunted them, and theyr bane geuen them therwyth. For they were choyked therwyth / and so wyll some of these at length.

Some of them were also swalowed vppe quykke wyth [ B] the grounde openynge vnder theym / not properly for vn¦bylyefe,* 1.77 but nath••lesse for that vyce whyche gooth next yt, that is to say for a scysme in gatherynge to gether wyth A∣byron, Dathan, and Chore / a bysye swarme of rebellyouse companye (as these scysmatycall heretyques do now) that swarued from the obedyence of Moses and Aaron whome god hadde appoynted for theyr gouernours / whereof god by great myracle toke open vengaunce.

And some other there were that there left theyr carcases in wyll dernesse, for dyuerse other causes besyde vnby∣lyefe, as by the processe of the byble appereth.

But now yf they all that lefte theyre carcases in desert, had there peryshed for vnbylyefe / what hadde thys made [ C] to the purpose agaynst vs? for we say not but that he which at one time byleueth very well, may for all that at a nother tyme fall from the fayth agayne / as we se proued by Tyn¦dale, and Luther, and Huyskyn, and many such other mo. But this I say for all that yet,* 1.78 that euen amonge that peo¦ple whyle they were in deserte, the nomber of open vnbyle¦uers professynge theyre vnbelyefe, neuer were so many at one tyme, but that the trew byleuers were yet the stronger parte / as yt well appered when the faythfull folke cōmaun¦ded there to by Moses, arose and went wyth hym, & perse∣cuted and bette, and subdued the faythlesse, and kylled of them great nomber.

And so shall it euer be by goddes grace in crystēdome, y^t neuer shall there ryse so many mysse byleuers, but that the trew byleuers shall be ••••yll the strenger. And though the faythlesse be some tyme suff••ed to prosper in theyr malycy∣ouse

rage by some euyll softenesse of suche as sholde resyste [ A] them, as dyd they naughty people whyle Aaron du••s•• not wythstand them: yet shall god alway sone after send down some good Moses from the mount, that shall wyth the co∣rage of godly zele rere vppe the faythfull, and shewe the prowde faythlesse heretikes, how farre they be to feble and to few. And when yt shall come to thextremite, Cryste shall come downe from his hygh mounte hym selfe, and gather hys flocke to gether / and wyth the myghtye blaste of hys own blessed mouth shall ouerthrow and destroy the strong captayne of all these heretykes Antichryste hym selfe, and shall rule those ragy••use rebellyous scysmatykes wyth an iron rod,* 1.79 and all to frushe & to breke those erthely wreched h••retyques lyke a sorte of erthen pottes / and shall holde his dome day, and brynge therto and from yt vnto heuen, [ B] no smale nomber yet of those that shall then be lefte. Of whom saynt Poule sayth, Then we that lyue and remayn, ••hall be taken vpe with them also in y^• cloudes to mete our lorde in the ayer,* 1.80 and so shall we for euer be wyth our lord.

And euen so were there of those byleuers in lyke wyse, that byleued by the meane of men and myracles, many a thousande that came in conclusyon to the lande of byheste. For this can make no mater touchynge Tyndales reason, whyther they were the selfe same persones that came oute of Egypte wyth Moses or other, so that they were such as to byleue, were i••duced by men & by myracles. And suche byleuers were all the byleuers y^t afterwarde came thyther. And therfore Tyndales tale of theym that left theyr carca∣ses [ C] in the wyldernes, shall not nede to fere vs from the by∣lyefe atteyned & goten by the meane of mennys preachyng and goddes myracles / wyth whyche outward meanes god in all those that byleue worketh euer more.

For Tyndale hath here no farther to say in that I can se, to make his tale serue any thyng for his purpose, except he tell vs that as many as came to the lande of beheste, were electes and had the felynge fayth bysyde / and that all those that dyed in wyldernesse, were reprobates, and ther∣fore hadde but the fayth of mennys teachynge and of my∣racles alone.

But nowe is Tyndale tell vs this / we wyll praye hym proue yt. For tyll he do more then say yt / we wyll not lette to say agayn, that with as many as byleued, god wrought hym selfe wyth theyr wylles, and that ellys they hadde not

[ A] byleued neyther men nor myracles.

And we shall not let to tell Tyndale ferther, that of those byleuers whyche were enduced by the meane of men or my¦racles, there dyed in wyldernesse such as we may well trust to haue bene electes and to be now in heuen / and therfore that they eyther had the felynge fayth yf none other myght suffycyently serue / or ellys suche other fayth as they had goten by the meane of men or myracles, was for theyr sal∣uacyon suffycyent inough. And surely yf it so were / then yet agayne we shall not nede to fere. For yf we maye gete heuen we care for none other lande of byheste, nor for none other doth Tyndale put the sample, but by theyr comynge to the lande of byheste or theyr lesynge therof, to sygnyfye whyche maner fayth sholde attayne to heuen, and whyche [ B] sholde fayle therof and neuer attayne therto.

And in dede as it semeth, Tindale meneth that all those whych lefte theyr carcases in the wyldernes, perysshed and lost heuyn for lacke of ••uche a felyng fayth / and th••rfore he concludeth, euyn so shall the chyldren of mays••er M••res fayth••es••e fay••h made by the persuasyon of men, lepe shorte of the reste whiche our sauy••ur Iesus is rysen vnto. But now hath Tindale forgotē, that the prophete Moyses hym selfe that spake with god & was taughte by hym, & not pe••suaded by myracles eyther told him by other mennes mouthes, or wroughte in his syghte by the meane of other menne, but wrought by god by the meane & instru¦ment of hys owne handes / lefte yet for all that hys carcays & hys bonys in the wyldernesse / and that hydde so surely, [ C] that neuer man shold after fynde them to cary them thense. Now syth not onely such as attayned faith by persuasyō of men, but such also as Tyndale dowteth nothyng to be sure of saluacyō, left theyr carcayses in the desert, & neuer came in the land of byhest: his ensāple of them y^t there left theyr carcayse no thynge maketh more agaynste the chyldren of mayster M. fayth as faythles as he calleth it then agay••st the chyldren of Tyndals own felynge fayth. And ther••ore euery man may fele y^• Tyndale hath brought in this poynt lyke a very fole. For euery mā may well {per}ceyue, y^t the fayth which Tyndale reproueth ī me & calleth it faithles, bycause men are enduced therin to by myracles & {per}suasyōs of men / Tyndale hym self knoweth to be y^• fayth of holy saynt Au∣stayne / as his wordes agaynst the Manicheys whych Tin¦dale hath hym selfe reherced, testyfye well and bere wytnes though Tyndals own glose w••re trewe. For yf he byleued

the chirch bycause they were thā good ••en / yet was he then [ A] enduced in to the bylyefe by the persuasyon of m••n. And yet is not he lepte shorte o•• that r••ste that Cry•••• is rysen to, but is therin / and not in the reste onely but in the blesse to / ••nd so be many chyldren of the same faythe and m••••y mo shall. But as for Tyndals fayth byleueth it selfe, that hym selfe and hys mayster and all theyr chyldren shall lye styll and slepe, and therfore lepe shorte of blesse and lyfe to tyll domes daye / and then dare I be bolde to warraunt theym for as longe agayne after.

But yet syth Tyndale telleth vs he••e that thys fayth of ours is nought, and by hys wyse reason the fay••h of saynt Austayne to, bycause bothe he and we were induced to t••e bylyefe by myracles and persuasyon of men: Let vs besech Tindale beyng so specyall a prechour sent by god, to gyue [ B] vs his good gostely counsayle what we maye do t•• come to heuen. what wyll he answere vs, what connsayle wyll he gyue vs? He wyll of lykelyhed bycause he lykeneth vs to Simon Magus that byleued for the myracles whiche he sawe Phylyp wurke, byd vs therfore do as saynt Peter bode hym do / to whome he sayed do penaunce for thys thy wyckednes, and praye to god yf he peraduenture wyll for∣gyue the thys euyll mynde of thy harte.

we myghte here saye that the faute whyche saynt Peter found wyth Simon Magus, was not the fawt that Tyn∣dale fyndeth wyth vs, that is to wyt the byleuynge for my∣racles and by persuasion of men / but for that he wold with money haue bought the gyfte of the holy goste. How be it syth Tyndale I se well taketh thys fawte of ours for as [ C] greate a cryme as that of hys / yt can not become vs to de∣fende it, but confesse it for suche and be sory for it / and shew hym that we be full heuy and repente it very sore, that euer we byleued eyther the scrypture the better for the chyrche, or the chyrche the better for the myracles that are dayly wroughte in it, or any pyece of the fayth for any myracle that Phylyppe wroughte or Iacob eyther, or any apostle of them, or yet our sauyour eyther. But now that we be so sory for it what wyll he byd vs more? Fastynge, prayeng, or pylgrymage, or other wurkes of penaunce, we ••hall not nede to fe••e. For Tyndale vseth none / but sayeth it is synne to do any. well we shall be at hys counsayle content for hys pleasure to forbere all those synnys of payne and penaunce to / but yet howe shall we do for faythe•• For

[ A] wythoute the very felynge fayth, no repentaunce can saue vs be we neuer so well ware in kepynge vs both fro shryft and thryfte and satysfaccyon. what counsayle wyll he gyue vs therfore, how we maye labour for thys fayth?

He hath gyuen vs playne answere all redy, that there is wyth vs no remedy. For syth we haue so hyghly offended god, not of weykenes, fraylte, and infyrmyte, as hys elec∣tes do when they falle into theyr horryble dedes, by y^• frute of theyr synne remaynynge in theyr flesshe and brekynge out at theyr frayle members / but euyn wyllyngely, and of purpose, and of pure malyce, whan we endeuour our selfe to byleue the artycles of Cristes fayth by myracles and per¦suasyon of menne, whyche fayth is as he sayth the deuyls fayth / therfore as for the rest that god is rysen to, he telleth [ B] vs playnely we shall neuer come therto / and therfore byd∣deth vs neuer loke thereafter nor neuer care therfore, but lette it alone and thynke no more theron, but playe & make vs mery whyle we maye / and whyle we can neuer haue good in the worlde to come, embrace therfore he byddeth vs and holde faste thys present worlde and the pleasurs therof whyle we maye, and be not so folysshe as to lese bothe.

Is not here good chrysten readers a good lesson and a goodly gospell of this euangelycall doctour? I wysse saynt Peter answered not Symon Magus so sore ye wote well. But what, syth there is no remedy wyth vs, but that Tyn¦dale wyll nedys dampne vs all in to Dymmynges daie / yet lette vs beseche hym of hys comfortable counsayle for [ C] some other good felowes, as haue bene by grace hytherto kepte and preserued frome suche vngodly cōmynge into the fayth, and haue so well resysted all credence of myra∣cles and all mennes persuasyons, that for any thynge that god coulde do by mene of men or myracles, they stande yet clere aborde and byleue nothynge at all.

If some such good felowe wolde now beseche Tyndale to teache hym the meanes how he myghte gete hys felyng fayth / what counsayle wold Tindale now gyue vnto hym: wyll he byd hym repente hys vnbylyefe•• yf he so byd hym, the man wyll wene he mocketh hym. For how canne he repente the not byleuynge of any artycle, but yf he fyrste byleue that hys dutye is to byleue it / and harde it is to cō∣ceyue or imagyne that a man maye byleue that suche a

poynte or suche a poynte euery m••n oughte to byl••ue, but [ A] yf he fyrste byleue that poynt hym selfe.

And Tyndale hath also shewed vs that concernyng the byleuyng, the electe can no thynge do at all, tyll god make hym fyrste bothe for to se and fele and so forth / and therfore when he telleth hym thys tale of byly••f, and then byddeth hym go and repente hys vnbylyefe byfore he tell hym how he maye fyrste come to the very felynge bylyefe / the poore man maye well thynke that Tindale d••th but mocke hym.

what counsayle then wyll Tyndale gyue hym ferther? wyll he tell hym that it is the lyberall fre gyfte of god, and therfore aduyse hym to praye god to gyue it hym? If Tyn¦dale tell hym thus / then the man callynge to mynde Tyn∣dals forma••e tale that he hath wryt••n and taught, that the wyll of man can no thynge wurke wyth god towarde god, [ B] though it maye wurke wyth god towarde outwarde thyn∣ges / and now thys prayour yf it lye not in hys wyll, wher∣fore doth Tyndale aduyse hym to it. And yf it lye in hys wyll / yet syth by Tyndals tale it can no thynge do toward god, and the turnynge of god to hym and hym to god (For yf it coulde, then could hys wyll do somwhat toward god, whyche Tyndale doth expressely denye) the pore man wyll wene that Tyndale doth yet but mocke.

More ouer syth Tyndale expressely mocketh all ende∣uoure of mannys wyll in subdewynge of hys reason into the seruyse of the fayth of Cryst, and calleth it a betleblynd reason / the man wyll soone se that Tyndale is hym selfe betleblynde, yf he se not that it is then but a betleblynde counsayle to byd hym go pray therfore. For well ye wote [ C] the selfe same mynde and e••tent of prayenge that god may make hym byleue is some endeuoure of hys owne wyll to∣warde the bylyefe.

And yet whenne Tyndale hath more ouer tolde vs yet more playnely, that the man can by hys wyll no more do to¦warde the gettynge of the fayth, then can the chylde in the begetynge of hys owne father / and euery man well woteth that the chylde can not praye god to cause hys graundefa∣ther to bygete hys father: thys man muste nedes perceyue that in byddynge hym to pray for the fayth, Tyndale doth playnely mocke hym.

Fynally good faythfull reder, I can not in good fayth perceyue what counsayle Tyndale can geue any man to∣warde

[ A] saluacyon, standyng his frantyke heresyes agaynst free wyll / whyche as yt is in euery good and merytoryous worke preuēted by the goodnesse of god, so doth yt in such as haue age and reason, worke and walke on wyth god / not in other thinges onely but with endeuour also toward fayth, by credence geuynge bothe to myracles and good persuasyons of men / whych thynges god hath here orday¦ned for the meanes towarde yt, conuenyent for the state of this present lyfe, and suffycyent for the iuste cause of dam¦nacyon, of all such as for lacke of theyr owne deuour and for frowardnes of theyr owne fre wyll, do not vppon so suf¦fycyent caases byleue / syth that yf there lakked not ende∣uour vppon theyr owne parte, the goodnes of god wolde haue assysted theym wyth his helpe to the perfeccyon and [ B] full infusyon of that grace in fayth, hope, and charite, that but yf the wyll afterward fynally fall therfro, shold bryng to the glorye from whyche they sholde neuer fall / and to∣warde whych glory, Tyndale standyng his heresy, can as ye se bable he neuer so sayntly, geue any man any coūsayle forwarde, but euen to syt styll, and do nought, and let god alone. For as ye se playnely to this ende at last cometh all his holy heresy, when yt is well examyned. And therfore wolde not yet mayster More by glad to chaunge his fayth for Tyndales, as faythlesse as false Tyndale calleth yt.

But now concludeth Tyndale all his cōcclusyon thus

Tyndale.

And hereby maye ye se that it is a playn and an euydēt cōclusion as bri••••t [ C] as the sonne shinynge, that the trouth of goddes worde dependeth not of 〈◊〉〈◊〉 treuth of the congregacyon.

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who euer sayde that yt dyd? who was euer so madde to thynke that the trouth of goddes worde, depended vppon the mouthes of any mortall men or any creature eyther in erthe or heuen? but wythoute any outwarde dependens, hath his solydyte substaunce and fastenes of and in yt self. But the thynge that ys in questyon betwene vs, ys not wherby. Tondale knoweth and I also that goddes worde is trew. But wherby he knoweth and I to, whyche is the worde of god, and bycause Tyndale, and I be not agreed theruppon, but I saye wryten and vnwryten and he but wryten onely? I come nerer vnto hym therin, & aske hym how he knoweth whyche is the worde of god wryten, that

is to wyt, whych is the very scrypture. And the•• say I that [ A] the certaynte of thys thynge euery man that ordynaryly hath yt, cōmeth to yt by the catholyque chyrche.

And that I say trouth in this poynt / I thynke that eue∣ry crysten man that knoweth which be the scryptures•• will for his owne part bere me we••nesse / as holy saynt Austayn hath all redy downe for his parte, in the wordes of his be∣fore rem••mbred wryten agayns•• the Manycheis, where he sayth, I wold not byleue the gospell / but yf the authoryte of the chyrche moued me therto. whyche sayenge of saynte Austayne ye se your selfe that Tyndale hath so falsely and yet for all that so ••ayntly glosed for an answere, that they remayne styll vnanswered.

And therfore as for Tyndales cōclusyon, we wyll with [ B] good wyll graunte hym that yt is as clere as the sonne shy¦nynge, that the trewth of goddes wordes dependeth not vpon the trewth of the congregacyon. But syth ye se good reders as clere as the sonne shyuynge, that no man sayde the contrarye, nor the questyon betwene vs was not why∣ther goddes worde were trewe, bycause the chyrche sayth that goddes worde is trewe (For so sayth not the chyrche of Cryste alone, but Turkes, and Iewes, and Paynyms to, and all the creatures of heuyn, and erth, and hell to, sa∣uynge these her••tyques onely, whyche wolde wyth theyre false gloses make his wordes false euen such as the know¦lege for his). But syth you se well as I say that oure que∣styon is not what thyng maketh goddes worde to be trew, nor by what meane men knowe goddes worde to be trewe / [ C] but by what meane men know whyche is the trew word of god, and whether we know not whyche is the trew gospell by the meane & teachynge of the knowen catholyke chyrch or not by yt, but by some ••ther chyrch or congregacyon vn¦knowen: ye may se your selfe as clere as the son shynyng, that Tyndale bryngeth in his bryght clere conclusion, not for to shew you any light of trouth, but for to lede vs from the syght of the mater and make vs loke vppou a wronge marke, or lede vs into the darke where we sholde se no∣thynge at all.

But nowe syth Tyndale hath all this whyle proued in such wyse as ye haue herd, that we be not able to geue any good reason of our bylyefe, so farforth as we geue credēce to y^e catholike chyrch, no more then y^e Iewes or Sarasens:

[ A] he remembreth hym selfe at laste, and le••te hym self and his discyples myght peraduēture seme to fall in the same faut, he teacheth them now that are his electes and haue his fe∣lynge fayth, suche playne euydent answeres for the proue of theyr felynge fayth, that no man can aske any farther. For lo syr thus he sayth.

Tyndale.

And therfore whē thou art asked, why thou byleuest that thou shalt be saued thorow Crist, and of suche lyke pryncyples of oure fayth / answere, thou wo∣test and feles••e yt to be trew.

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ye wote well good reders that the pryncypall purpose wheruppon we go, is the argument whych Tyndale wold seme to soyle, that is to saye the argument by whyche we proue the knowen catholyque chyrch to be the very chyrch of Chryste / bycause by that chyrche & none other we know whyche is the trew scrypture of Cryste. wheruppon we cō¦clude that the same chyrche therfore and none other is the very trew chyrche, by whyche we know the trew doctryne.

To this Tyndale hath as ye haue herde scudded in and out lyke an hare that had .xx. brace of greyhoundes after her, and were a ferd at euery fote to be snached vppe. For perceyuynge well that yf he graunte yt to be trew, that he knoweth whyche is the scripture by the catholyke chyrche, he muste nedes then graunte also that the same chyrche ys the very chyrche: he shyfteth in and oute now ye now nay / & where as he can not in cōclusyon auoyde yt, yet he f••nal∣ly [ C] seketh out a shyfte to slynke away slyly and seme not to graunt yt, shewyng vs that he knoweth not whych is the very scrypture by the catholyque chyrche, but ••y hys fe¦lynge fayth.

Now is yt therfore good reason that Tyndale carye vs not away wyth other questyon from this poynte, & deuyse a questyon hym selfe, as why he byleueth that he shalbe sa∣ued thorow Cryst. For both is that questyōs not so dyrect¦ly to the mater, and also there maye peraduenture vppon that question arryse a nother questyon, that is whether the saluacyon of any determynate person yet lyuy••g•• be in the same person any artycle of bylyefe or not / & some men wyll holde peraduenture that yt is not properly any poynte of the bylyefe but of hope.

But therfore lettyng that question passe for this present /

I shall purpose vnto Tyndales discyple the questyon that [ A] goth next to the purpose, and he shall answere as Tindale teacheth hym. For I am loth to talke wyth mayster Tyn∣dale hym self. I aske his discyple therfore this / syr M. Tyn¦dales dyscyple, syth ye saye that whyche is the very scryp∣ture ye knowe not by the knowen catholyque chyrche as saynt Austayne sayde that he dyd, & Luther also your own maysters mayster sayth that he dothe: I praye you tell vs therfore how do you know that y^e bokes of the .iiii. euange∣lystes be the very scrypture of god?

To this questyon ye here how Tyndale standeth at his bakke, and prompteth hym in his eare in this wyse, Say thou byleuest it bycause thou felest yt to be trew. Uery well and properly an¦swered. Then wyll I aske him one questyō or twayn more. [ B] wherfore byleue you that no good worke shalbe rewarded in heuen, and that freres may lawfully wedde nūnes, and that the blessed sacrament of the auter is nothyng but cake brede or starche. To all these and twenty suche questyons mo Tyndale teacheth hym thus, Answere thou wotest and feleste yt to be trewe. And when he asketh how thow knowest that yt is trew / an∣swere, bycause yt is wryten in thyne herte. And yf he aske who wrote yt / answere, the spyryte of god. And yf he aske how thou camest fyrst by yt / tell hym, whether by redynge of bokes or hearyng yt preached, as by an outward instrument / but that inwardly thou waste taught by the spyryt of god. And yf he aske whether thou byleueste yt not bycause yt is wryten in bokes, or by∣cause the prestes so preache / answere no not now, but only bycause it is writē in thyne herte, and bycause the spyryte of god so preacheth and so testyfyeth vnto thy soule. And saye though at the begynnyng•• thou w••st moued by re∣dynge or preachyng as the Samarytanis were by the wordes of the woman / [ C] yet now thou byleuest yt not therfore any lenger, but only bycause thou haste h••rd yf of the spyryte of god and red yt wryten in thyne herte.

Lo good reders here ye se that Tyndale hath instructed his dyscyple to make answere suffycyent to euery thynge that may be asked hym / the whole e••••ecte wherof standeth all to gether in two thynges. The fyrste, that all these poyn¦tes of his fayth he byleueth, bycause he feleth theym wry∣ten in hys harte by the spyryte of god. The seconde that though he came fyrste vnto them by writyng or preachyng and fyrste byleued theym for that wrytyng that he redde or preachynge that he herd, as the Samarytanys dyd for the womans wordes: yet now he byleueth hym not therfore, but onely bycause he redeth yt wryten by the spyryte of god

[ A] in hys harte.

Now for as mych as this outwarde meane of prechyng & redyng, is the fyrst meane by whych he cam therto, which meane he regardeth not now, nor hath no lēger any respect in hys bylyefe therunto / & therfore syth he is nowe comen to that hygh poynte of felynge fayth, by whyche he redeth wryten by the spyryte of god in hys harte, that the bookes of the .iiii. euangelystes be very trewe scrypture of god, he byleueth it not now the better of a poynt bycause the catho¦lyke chyrche sayth so: I wyll therfore aske thys good sco∣ler of Tyndale, whyther he fele wryten in hys harte by the spyryte of god, that he hath a better fayth and a more per∣fayte than saynt Austayne had, after that god had by myra¦cle turned hym to the fayth and wryte agaynst the Mani∣cheys, [ B] from whose false secte god had called hym.

Peraduēture this questyō wyll somwhat seme straūge to this dyscyple of Tyndale, bycause it is none of those to whyche hys mayster hath taught hym to make answere. But yet I thynke in conclusyō y^• hys mayster wyll not ad∣uyse hym to saye that he feleth hym selfe to haue a more perfayt bylyefe then saynt Austayne, in any suche thynge as saynt Austayne and he byleued bothe, leste euery man shold fele the mayster of such a scoler to proue a proud fole.

Now on the tother syde, yf he cōfesse that he fele not his owne fayth for any more perfayt then saynt Austayns was but byleue in hys owne mynde that saynt Austayne in any trewe poynt of bylyefe commune vnto them bothe, had as full a fayth and as perfayte as he: then wyll I aske hym [ C] wherfore he doth not now byleue the scrypture styll for the authoryte of the chyrche, as well as saynt Austayne dyd styll when he wrote of hym selfe agaynste the Manicheys, and sayd I wolde not byleue the gospell but yf the autho∣ryte of the chyrche moued me therto. He byleued it for the authoryte of the chyrche alwaye styll / and yet dare I saye and Tyndale I suppose dare not saye the contrary, but that the spyryte of god hadde as well wryten that conclu∣syon in hys harte, as in the holy harte of any dyscyple of Tyndale, whome Tyndale here teacheth, to answere vs the contrary.

And thus as concernynge the knowlege of the very scrypture whyche is our pryncypall mater: Tyndals an∣swere in the very chyefe poynte of all, but yf he proue hys

scolers fayth better then saynt Austayns / hys answere that [ A] he techeth here hys dyscyple is not worth a rysshe.

But now let vs in those other artycles aske thys good scoler of Tyndale, syth it is so that he feleth and fyndeth in his herte wrytē by the spyryte o•• god, that freres & monkes that haue by vowe forsaken flesshe, may lawfully fall from fysshe to womans flesshe, and vnder the name of weddyng make stewed strūpettes of nonnes / and feleth also by lyke felyng fayth, that good workes are nought worth nor shall be rewarded in heuen / and feleth also by the same false fe∣lyng fayth, that in the blessed sacrament of the awter there is neyther the precyouse body nor bloude of Chryste, but onely cake brede and wyne or starche in stede of brede: I shall aske hym I saye therfore the questyon to whyche hys [ B] mayster hath boūden hym to make answere, that is to wyt how he came fyrst by thys fayth that is to saye the hystory∣call fayth of them, byfore that the spyryte of god wyth wry¦tynge theym in hys harte, caused hym there bothe to rede them and fele them.

For answere of thys questyon, Tyndale sayth to his sco¦ler, Tell hym whyther it were by redyng in bokes or heryng it preched. Uery well. Now syth his mayster byddeth hym tell vs, I wolde praye hym to tell vs, whyther by prechyng or redynge in bo¦kes. To thys he wyll I wene answere me y^• he lerned those thynges by prechynge. Then I aske hym by whose pre∣chyng he came to it. To this muste he be fayne to saye, that by the prechynge of hys owne mayster wyllyam Tyndale, Luther, Lambert, Huyskyn, or Suinglius, or some suche [ C] other apostaticall prechers. But now to thys shall I tell hym agayne, that syth he had not the felyng fayth wryten by y^e spyryte in his harte after his maysters owne tale, tyll he fyrst byleued the same thinges with an hystoricall fayth by the herynge of those holy prechers / he muste to thentent that he maye lede vs in to the same fayth as they dyd hym, tell vs what reason he had to byleue them / seynge that they be neyther men of more lernynge, nor of more wytte, nor of so mych vertue, as were saynt Austayn, saynt Hierom, saīt Basyle, saynt Cyprian, saynt Chrysostom, saynt Grygory, saynt Ambrose, wyth many such other lyke / whose holy ly∣uynge, trew fayth, & doctryne, god hath approued & testy∣fyed to the worlde by manyfolde wonderfull myracles / all which holy doctours haue taught men to beleue y^• cōtrary.

[ A] To this questyon Tyndale techeth hys scoler to make answere and saye, that he byleued them bycause they laye so good authoryte for them. what authoryte laye they for them shall I saye. Now to thys questyon Tyndale hym selfe maketh an answere and sayth, Concernynge ••utwarde tea∣chynge / we allege for vs scrypture elder then any chyrche that was t••is xliii. hundred yeres, and olde autentyke storyes whych they had broug••t a slepe where with we confound theyr lyes.

Remember ye not how in our owne tyme, of all that toughte grammer in Englande not one vnderstode the latyne tonge? how c••me we then 〈◊〉〈◊〉 t••e laten tonge agayn? not by them, though we lerned certayne rules a•••• pr••n¦cyples of them, by whyche we were moued and hadd•• an oc••••s••on 〈…〉〈…〉 further, but oute of the olde authors. Euen so we se••e 〈…〉〈…〉 out of whych we lerne, and not of our chirch, th••••••h w•• recey•••••• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 [ B] pryncyples of our chyrche at the begynnynge, but more fa••shed am•••••••• 〈◊〉〈◊〉 trueth.

Lo good readers thys dyscyple of Tyndale in these ar∣tycles of his felyng fayth, that good chrysten mennes good workes shall haue no rewarde in heuyn, & that frerys may wedde nonnes, and in hys blasphemy agaynste the blessed body and bloude of Cryste in the sacrament of the aultare / he byleued hys mayster / and his mayster his mayster Mar¦ten Luther, and the other lewde maysters of these newe sec¦tes, not wythout a cause, ye se well. For he sayth that they alledge for theyr heresyes the scrypture & olde auncyent s••o¦ryes / & therwyth as men haue brought vp nowe the trewe olde grammer agayne, euyn so do they now brynge vp the olde trewe fayth agayne / wherof thoughe they toke some pryncyples of the catholyke chyrche at the begynnyng, yet [ C] they toke therof more falshed amonge then truthe.

Now which those thynges are that he calleth the falshed that he sayth they toke of the chyrche / ye knowe good chry¦sten reders well inough, those are the poyntes for whyche he so sore iesteth and rayleth agaynst the catholyke chyrch, the techynge that good wurkes shalbe rewarded in heuyn, and that folke shold kepe the holydayes, & fastyng dayes, & pray for all chrysten soules, & honour the precyouse bo••y & bloude of Cryste in the blessed sacrament, and obserue theyr holy vowes made to god, and forbede that freres sholde wedde nonnes, and many suche other thynges. These thynges he sayeth that the chyrche hadde taughte hym false, tyll that nowe Tyndale, and Luther, and

Lambert, and Huyskyn, and Suynglius, haue restored [ A] agayne the ryghte fayth in all these poyntes, that hath ben thys .viii. hundred yere loste as Tyndale sayth. These thyn¦ges haue they now restored and brought vp agayne by an¦tyquytees and old storyes, lyke as mayster Lyly late may∣ster of Poulys scole broughte vp in London the ryght or∣der in techynge of grammer & lernynge of the latyn tong.

Thys is good reders the thyng that thys good scoler of Tyndale by the counsayle of hys mayster answereth.

But nowe good readers we must tell hym agayne that hys ensample of grammer and the laten tonge, is nothyng lyke the mater of fayth that he resembleth it vnto. For the laten tonge was no thynge that euer our lorde promysed to preserue for euer / and therfore it myghte by chauncys & [ B] occasyons of batayle and warre, perysshe and be loste / and the countrees compelled to leue it and r••ceyue some other language in the stede therof. But as for y^• fayth can neu••r fayle, no more then canne the catholyke chyrche / agaynste whyche our sauyour hath hym selfe promysed that all the heretykes that rebelle agaynste it, nor all the tyrauntes vp¦pon erth that insourge and oppugne it, whyche two sortes be the gates of hell, shall neuer obtayne and preuayle / nor in lyke wyse all the deuyls of hell that are wythin hell or walkynge in thys world and bysy aboute the gates of hell, shall neuer be able to destroye the fayth which our sauyour hath in lyke wyse promysed agaynste the deuyll that went about to syfte it out of hys chyrche, sholde be preserued a••d kepte by the meane of hys owne specyall prayour. [ C]

And therfore syth grammer in the laten tong is a thyng that may fayle / & the trewe fayth is a thynge by the spyrite of god accordynge to Crystes promyse perpetually taught vnto hys chyrche,* 1.81 and therfore canne neuer fayle no not though all the bokes in the worlde sholde fayle: therfore hys symylytude of grāmer lykened vnto fayth, is no more lyke then an apple to an oyster.

Now as touchynge any such olde autentyke storyes as he speketh of, whyche he sayth the chyrche had broughte a slepe, wherwyth he sayeth that Luther, and Tyndale, and Huyskyn, and Suynglius, confounde our lyes: I wolde very fayne here some one story, by whyche he proueth that fastynge, and prayenge, and almoyse dedes, done in fayth, hope, and cheryte, be noughte worth, nor neuer shall haue

[ A] rewarde in heuen.

By what olde story proueth he that folke shold not pray for theyr frendes soules.

By what old story wyll he shew vs, that crysten women be prestes and were wonte to synge masse.

By what olde storye can he make yt good, that in the blessed sacrament is neyther fleshe nor bloode, but onely bare brede and wyne?

And by what olde stories new founden out, can he now make vs knowe, that freres or monkes professed, were of olde wonte to wedde nunnes, and well alowed and myche commended therin.

we be very sure that in all these poyntes except the last, we shall fynde vnto these folke many olde autentyque sto∣ryes [ B] prouynge theyr heresyes false. Howe be yt as for the laste in dede, I fynde not as farre as I can remembre any olde storyes agaynste yt. For I suppose veryly that vntyll frere Luther now beganne of late / there neuer was wreche so bestely, that euer durste for very shame attēpte any such incestuouse maryage byfore / but yf yt were onely Iulia¦nus apostata, whyche fell forthwyth fro the fayth, and be∣came a false paynym, and persecuted the crysten folke / and Cryste quyt hym there after, and shortely sente shamfull deth, and the wonder of all the worlde vppon hym whyle the worde standeth.

Nowe come we then to the scrypture. For therin they make as though they reygned, we alledge sayth Tyndale, 〈◊〉〈◊〉 vs the scrypture elder then any chyrche that was these .xiiii. yeres.

[ C] Fyrste when Tyndale here sayth we / I wolde wytte of hym whyche we, we Lutheranys, or we Huyskyns, or we anabaptystes, or we Swynglianys, or of whyche rable of all the remanaunt of those hundred sectes, of whych neuer one agreeth wyth other, nor neuer a man wyth his felow / but eche of them layeth the scrypture as well agaynste all the remanaunte of the sectes, as agaynste the catholyque chyrche.

Bysydes this, where Tyndale saith that they alledge for theym the scrypture / we saye that some thynges there are that god wyll haue byleued, were of his worde was dely∣uered vnto his chyrche wythout wrytynge, & in his chy••ch wythout wrytynge preserued by the selfe same spyryte that endyghted the wrytynge. And this do we proue by olde au¦tentyke

bokes of olde holy doctours, and by the authoryte [ A] of the catholyque chyrche, and by the manyfolde myracles that styll contynue in onely the same chyrche, for the com∣probacion of the doctryne of the same / and besydes all this yet by playne scrypture to / as I haue clerely proued vnto Tyndale in the laste chapyter of my thyrde boke. And sor his purpose in that poynt he hath not one text of scripture, but suche as he may be a shamed so farre agaynst the ryght sence of theym to brynge them forth in place.

And ouer this for his fynall confusyon in that poynte, ye haue your selfe herde in my fourth boke, that the perpe∣tuall vyrgynyte of oure ladye he hath hym selfe confessed, that who so euer here yt taughte muste byleue yt / and yet is yt not proued by holy scrypture. And therfore must he ne¦dys geue ouer that false feble heresye, whych he was wont [ B] to holde, that we be bounden to byleue nothynge but yf yt be wryten, & as Luther sayth euydētly writen in scrypture.

How be yt in this that he sayth he alledgeth scrypture / he dothe but walke aboute in a maase. For well ye wote good reders, and so doth hym selfe to, that betwene these heretykes and the chyrche, the questyon is not for the more parte in the wordes of the scrypture, but vppon the ryght sentence and vnderstandynge of the scripture. Now do we lay therin agaynste theym the olde auncyent doctours, whose exposycyons they cōtemne. For both for the reward of good workes, and for fastynge, and for the blessed sacra¦ment, and for vowes of chastyte, yf they wolde stande vnto the exposycyons of the olde holy doctours vppon the scryp¦ture / they can neuer auoyde yt, but that the scryptures be [ C] clere for our parte agaynste them / or ellys as I haue often sayde, let Tyndale tell vs some one of so many sayntes, as synnes the apostles tyme haue wryten vppon the scrypture byfore Luthers days, that expowned the scrypture in such wyse, that yt were by his exposycyon lawefull for a frere to wedde a nunne.

Therfore in conclusyon as concernynge the scrypture, Fyrste sor suche poyntes as god hath taughte his chyrche wythout scrypture, as the artycle of the perpetuall vyrgy∣nyte of our lady / Tyndale can not teache his dyscyple that they allegge the scrypture / for in scripture yt is not spoken of. If he wyll saye that they be at lybertye and not bounde to byleue yt / hym selfe hath in that artycle confessed the cō¦trary

[ A] byfore, as ye haue seen in my fourth boke.

And also in all such other lyke, yf he byleue not y^e chyrch / he might as well not haue byleued saint Poule. If he say y^t he could not but byleue saint Poule, bycause god wrought myracles for hym / by the same reason muste he byleue the catholyke chyrche, for as myche as god contynually in eue¦ry good crysten countrey worketh myracles in yt for the ca¦tholyque chyrche, and wythdraweth his myracles from all chyrches of heretykes, and therby declareth that he dothe those myracles not onely in yt but also for yt.

And also Tyndale knewe not that god by the mouth of saynte Poule sayde so / but bycause that the chyrch taught hym that god dyd so. If he saye yes, he felt yt by the wry∣tynge of goddes owne fynger in his herte: he muste consy¦der [ B] that I speke of the tyme before y^t his hert was so holy, that god lyked to wryte wyth his owne fynger therin. For hym selfe sayth that the hystorycall fayth goth fyrste, & the felynge fayth cometh after. Therefore at the leste wyse in that tyme, why sholde he not as well byleue the chyrche when yt sayde. This thynge god by saynt Poule dyd tell, as when yt sayde, This thynge god by saynt Poule dyd wryte.

And in lyke wyse for the bokes of the wryten wordes of scrypture, of whyche these heretykes receyue suche as lyke them, & refuse such as they lyste / syth y^t in the begynnynge sauynge for the catholyke chyrche, they neyther knew the tone nor the tother: why sholde they not byleue the same chyrche as well in the tone as the tother.

[ C] And as concernynge the bokes of scrypture whych they they them selfe receyue, syth the debate betwene the chyrch and these heretyques standeth not vppon the wordes but vppon the sentence / yf Tyndale were a Turke borne (by∣cause he layeth so often the Turkes for his parte agay••ste vs) they wolde and well they myghte reken hym but for a proude fole, yf he wold now begynne to constre them theyr Alcharon in great and necessary poyntes of theyr fayth, a∣gaynste the consente and agrement of all the olde exposy∣tours of theyr owne, and the bylyefe of all the people from the deth of Machomete vnto Tyndales byrth.

If Tyndale wold now refute myne obieccion of y^• Tur¦kes and theyr Alcharon, wyth obiectynge in lyke wyse a∣gaynst me the Iewes and the olde testament, whyche Crist

and his apostles taught theym to constre contrary to theyr [ A] olde vnderstandynge fro Moses dayes to theyr owne, and that the chyrch of Cryste doth euen the same styll / and wyll therfore say that so maye hym selfe and his mayster Mar∣tyne, and Huyskyn, and Swinglius, teache the chyrche of Cryste in lykewyse to constre the scrypture of the new testa¦ment in necessary poyntes of fayth, contrary to the consent of all the olde exposytours and the comen fayth of all cry∣sten nacyons, syth the tyme of Cristes deth and his blessed apostles vnto our owne dayes, as Cris••e and his apostles and the catholyque chyrche teache the Iewes to construe theyr own scrypture of the old testament, that they had had and taught so longe before: I answere Tyndale therunto lettynge passe other answeres for this time, that Cryst and his apostles and the catholyque chyrche euer synnes, haue [ B] proued and yet proue the authoryte of theyr doctryne to be aboue the Iewes in the constrewynge of theyr owne scryp¦tures delyuered by Moses and the prophetes, by that yt hath pleaseth god for the testyfycacyon therof, to shewe by Cryste and his apostles and his catholyke chyrche, conty∣nually to this day many meruelouse myracles, and wyth∣drawe theym all from the Iewes. Nowe lette Tyndale, and Luther, and Huyskyn, and Suynglius, do the lyke a∣gaynste the catholyque chyrche / & then let them come and teache yt to constre the scrypture of Cryste contrarye to all the olde. But tyll they haue the myracles among them and the catholyque chyrche leseth theym / yf Tyndale and hys fonde felowes wyll in the meane whyle go nowe aboute to [ C] teache the chyrche to constre the scrypture of Cryste, contra¦ry to the contynuall fayth fro the apostles days vnto theyr owne, we may myche better call thē proude presumptuous folys, then myght the Turkes for teachynge them a con∣trary construccyon of theyr Alcharon.

Besydes this, his ensample of the Iewis wyll not helpe hym for a nother cause. For the olde exposytours of theyre scryptures bothe of Moses and of the prophetes, were vp∣pon the parte of Cryste and his apostles, and consequent∣ly of the catholyque chyrche contynually agaynst the false scrybes and pharysyes, and the false doctoures synnes, in suche necessary poyntes as they and we vary for / as appe∣reth well by dyuers of theyr bok{is}, whych be dayly brought forth and allegged by men at this day lerned in theyr own

[ A] tonge, and also by that substancyall well lerned man Lyre in hys exposycyon of the seconde psalme.

Now yf Tyndale, & Luther, & Huiskyn, & Suingli{us}, can say y^t the old holy doctours expositours vpon the scrypture dyd euer expoune it, so that by theyr exposycyon it myghte appere that the scrypture of Cryste appereth it for lawfull and not abhorreth it as a thynge abomynable, that freres sholde wedde nonnes: I wyll agre wyth Tyndale to gyue ouer all the mater.

And thus ye se good reders, that as concernynge the scrypture which Tyndale here techeth his dyscyple to say, that they alledge elder then any chyrche thys .xiiii.C. yere, syth the debate and variaunce is not in the wordes wherin they and we bothe agre but in the sentēce / wherin not onely [ B] the comen contynued fayth of all chrysten nacyōs, but also all the olde holy doctours & sayntes euer synnys the same scrypture wrytē agreeth with the catholike chyrch agaynst hym: hys alledgyng of the scrypture is not worth a leke.

And therfore is he now dreuen in all that euer we vary for, to leue both scrypture and all / and when he aske wher∣fore he byleueth eyther thys or that, fayne muste he be to holde hym onely to hys felynge fayth / and as Tyndale for a shote ancre techeth hym, say that he byleueth it onely by∣cause he feleth it wryten in hys harte, wythout any reaso∣nable outwarde cause wherfore he fyrste byleued it wyth a story fayth, wherof as ye haue herde he can for hys here∣syes proue vs none at all.

Then syth he is comen to that poynt, that without any [ C] good outwarde cause, he muste defende hys fayth by hys onely felynge / may not the Turkes and the Iewes bothe whome he layeth so sore agaynst vs, defende theyr faythes agaynste hym by the selfe sam? And when he can no ferther saye but that he feleth his to be trew, & eche of theyrs false / may not eche of them answere hym that they fele theyrs to be trewe and hys false? And thus were gone the counsayle of saynt Peter,* 1.82 that we sholde geue a reason of our hope to euery man that wyl aske vs wherfore we hope so. And ther¦fore leuynge saynt Peter hys way / lette euery man folowe Tyndale and byleue what he lyste, and saye he feleth it wry¦ten in hys owne harte wyth goddes owne hande.

Men saye that he whyche hath bene onys at Hierusa∣lem may lye by authoryte, bycause he shall be sure seldome

to mete any man that hath be there, by whome hys tale [ A] myghte be controlled. But Tyndale hath here to lye with∣out controllement, wyth lesse labour sought out a shorter waye, and as hym selfe thynketh a surer to. For he goeth not onys out a dore therfore / but saye what he lyste, and tell vs that he feleth it trewe, and fyndeth it wryten wythin hys own harte, by hym that can not wryte false, the spyryte of god hym selfe. And there he weneth hym selfe surer then yf he wente twyse to Hierusalem, and twyse as farre be∣yonde. For yet myghte he for all that fortune to fynde some man that hadde the same waye walked as farre as he, and there founden Tyndalys tale false. But when he sayeth that he feleth it wryten wythin hys owne harte / he weneth hym selfe very sure. For he thynketh veryly ther canne no [ B] man loke in there to controlle hym and se whyther he lye or not.

But yet as wyly as that inuencyon was / Tyndale ys therin begyled / and god hath gone beyonde hym, & made hys wyly foly founden out more playnely then of late ap∣pered and came to controllement the selfe same wyly foly in Rycharde webbe.

Thys webbe whyle I was chauncelloure to the kyn∣ges hyghnesse, was by dyuers heretykes detectyd vnto me, that he had solde and vsed contynually to sell many of these heretykes bookes, forboden by the kynges gracyouse proclamacyon to be brought in to the realme / and ferther I was by good and honeste men enfourmed, that in Bry∣stowe where he then dwelled, there were of those pestylent [ C] bookes some throwen in the strete & lefte at mennys dores by nyght, that where they durste not offer theyr poysen to sell, they wolde of theyr cheryte poysen men for nought.

Now beynge thus enformed of hym, and hauynge very sure knowlege that he was a greate medeler in suche vn∣gracyouse maters, and vtteryng of suche poysoned bokes / of whyche I hadde a doser delyuered into my handes by Michael Lobley, whom I hadde attached for lyke maters and whyche hadde receyued the same docer and bookes of webbe and afterwarde abiured hys heresyes. I gaue out a commyssyon to certayne good wurshypfull folke at Bry∣stowe to attache Rycharde webbe. wheruppon after su∣ertyes there foūden to appere byfore me, he went at large / and commynge vppe to London the daye before he came

[ A] at me, gate hym to saynte Catheryns to Robert Necton, to whom he had vttered of hys bokes before / and fell in a secrete agrement wyth hym what eche of them sholde saye therin when they were examyned therof. And whan webbe thought he made the mater saufe and sure there / then came he boldely to me.

But now was he shrewdely bygyled / for yet ere he came at me, Necton ferynge that webbe myghte happe to tell the treuth thoughte he wolde hym self be before hym, and sent me worde in greate haste of webbys beynge wyth hym•• and of all the communycacyon that hadde ben bytwene theym to. And so webbe vnware therof beynge examyned on the morow, fyrst of dyuers other thynges answered•• on his othe many a false answere as I very well perceyued, sa∣uynge [ B] the salue of hys remembraunce. For euer for the more parte, he referred and restraynyd all to hys remem∣braunce. And when he had all done, & saw that I found no fawte, nor nothynge obiected agaynst his answers / but so vsed my selfe as though I byleued them, then he beganne to loke pytuously, vpon me and sayd that he had euer herd, that who so were in hys examynacyon trew & playne vnto me, had ben alwaye wont to fynde me good and fauorable / and sayd that for that cause he had hym selfe shewed me all that euer was in hys stomake, as playnely as he knewe it hym selfe vpon hys fayth to hys remembraūce. wherupon I shewed hym that yf I founde hym trew / he sholde fynde me fauourable / but I fered that his answerys were not all [ C] trew. Syr quod he yf ye fynde any one false, neuer be good lord vnto me, nor neuer trust me after whyle ye lyue. Then for a say I thought of hys so many lyes to assay hym with some one. And than I asked hym agayne of one syr Nycho¦las, to whom he had answered me before that he neuer sold any suche bookes but that the preste hadde he sayde offred hym suche bookes to sell but he wolde none bye / and that he hadde not seene the preste thys halfe yere / and the laste tyme he sawe hym was at Brystow. And whenne he s••yll abode therby vppon hys othe that thys was trewe, and ellys wolde I sholde neuer byleue hym in any thynge, nor shew hym any fauour: thē I asked hym whyther Brystow were in Holborne, & whyther syx wekes were halfe a yere. And when he perceyued by those questyons that I knewe of a certayn assēble of theyrs in Holborne within .vi. wekes

before / then he caste downe the hed and sayd he hadde for∣gote [ A] it. And whan I layed vnto hym hys periury / he sayd he sware for no ferther then he remembred. But when he coulde not make me byleue that he hadde forgote it / then downe he fell vppon hys marydonys, & pytuously prayed me to ••ogyue hym that one lye, in whych the deuyll he sayd ought hym a shame. For in good fayth syr there is not in all myn answers any one thynge vntrewe but that. well webbe quod I, in fayth yf that be trew, then wyll I wynke at thys one and lette it go for none. But nowe yf there be any mo lyes, call them agayne bytyme, and I wyll thenne take your fyrste tale for vntolde. Naye syr quod he and ye fynde any one more / then neuer byleue me whyle ye lyue, but take all for lyes that euer I tell you, and put me to opē shame, and make me a sample to all the false periured kna∣uys [ B] in the realme. well sayed I by lykly hed the remanaūt be well tryed trewthes, ye wolde not ellys webbe make so large an offer. No in fayth syr sayeth he, but yf I were sure that all were treue, I wolde not be so madde to saye as I do, and forsake your fauour so folyshly. well quod I when saw ye Robert Necton then? Nowe by my soule syr as I haue shewed your lordshyppe vppon myne othe, I sawe hym not thys halfe yere to my remembraunce. well quod I remember your selfe well / ye know perde where he dwel¦leth and he where you dwell / and therfore remember why∣ther ye were wyth hym at saynt Catheryns or he wyth you at Brystow, or that ye met by chaunce to gyther any where ellys wythin these thre or foure monethes. Then he began to study a lytell and clawe hys hed and rubbe hys forhed [ C] and sayed, Nay in fayth to my remembraūce we mette not to gyther thys halfe yere / and by my trouth I can not now call to mynde well where we met then neyther. well webbe quod I let that passe then, and tell me another thyng. was yesterdaye halfe yere a go? And were ye not yesterday with hym at saynt Catheryns / are ye not nowe shamefully for∣sworen. I wote well ye hadde not forgotten thys. Then downe wente the hed agayne into the bosome / and yet he mombled bycause I sayed he was forsworen, as though I coulde not loke into hys breste to se whyther he remembred it or no. He wolde haue semed not to remember suche a poynt syn yesterdaye. But he made me therwyth remember a lyke mater of a man of myne done seuen yere afore / one

[ A] Dauy a douche man whych had ben maryed in England, and saynge that his wyfe was dede and beryed at worces∣ter, two yere before, whyle he was in his countrey, and ge∣uynge her myche prayse and often tellynge vs how sory he was when he came home and found her dede, and how he∣uely ••e had made her bytter prayours at her graue / wente about whyle he wayted vpon me at Bruges in the kynges besynesse, to mary there an honeste wedowes doughter. And so happed it that euen vppon the day when they shold haue ben made handfaste & ensured to gether / was I ad∣uertysed fro Lōdon by my wyues letter, that Dauys wyfe was a lyue, and had ben at my house to seke hym. wherup¦pon I called hym before me and other, and redde the letter to hym. Mary mayster quod he that letter sayth me thinke [ B] that my wyfe is a lyue. ye beste quod I that she is. Mary quod he then I am well a payed, for she is a good woman. ye quod I but why art thou such a noughty wreched man, that thou woldeste here wedde a nother? Dyddest not thou say she was dede? yes mary quod he men of worcester told me so. why quod I thou false beste, dydest not thou tell me and all my house that thou were at her graue thy selfe. yes mary mayster quod he so I was / but I could not loke in ye wote well.

And as Dauy thoughte hym selfe saufely defended a∣gaynste falsed, by that he coulde not loke into his wyues graue to se whether she were in yt or no / so thought webbe hym selfe surely defended from any reprofe of periury, by∣cause I coulde not loke into his breste to se whether he re∣membred [ C] the counsayle so studyousely taken wyth Necton the daye byfore or no.

And in lyke maner hopeth Tyndale hym self sure wyth his felynge fayth agaynst all re••argucyon of his false here¦syes, bycause he seeth that no man can loke into his owne breste but hym selfe, and fynde what he feleth writen there.

But now as Dauy my man was bewrayed by my wy∣ues letter, and as webbe was bewrayed by Robert Necton so is Tyndale myche more clerely bewrayed and his coun¦sayle vttered by almyghtye god hym selfe. For where as Tyndale wolde haue vs wene, that he feleth yt wryten in his owne herte wyth y^e very hande of god, that freres may lawfully wedde nūnes, god hath him selfe so playnely told the contrary to all the olde holy sayntes this .xv. hundred

yere before, and by all the same space to all chrysten people [ A] besyde, that now there is no good man in all crystendome, but he feleth and fyndeth wryten by goddes hande in hys owne herte, that Tyndale feleth not that fowle fylthy here¦sye wryten in his herte by the hande of god. But yf he fele yt wryten there in dede as he sayth he dothe / then he feleth yt scrybled and scraped in his herte by the croked clouen clawes of the deuyll.

But yet yf the felyng of all good men wyll not answere Tyndale / but that he feleth alway styll wryten with god∣des owne hande in his owne holy herte, that the fayth of the catholyque chyrche is but an hystoricall fayth in any thynge that aught is, and that yt is full of heresyes besyde, and that therfore yt is the chyrch of heretyques, as he sayd in the ende of his goodly solucyon to the fyrste argument / [ B] and that therfore they y^t go out from it, be as he there sayth the very chyrche. And then syth all they be by hym the very chyrche, all they muste by his definycyon of the very chirch be nedes very electes, and haue by his owne definycyon al¦so the very felynge fayth wryten in theyr hertes by goddes owne hande: I demaunde and aske of Tyndale therfore how yt happeneth that his holy electes & faythfull felynge folke gone out fro the catholyque chyrche, fele not all one fayth / but in great necessarye poyntes of fayth fele eche of them so contrarye fayth to other, that eche of theym feleth other, and eche of them calleth other false fumblynge here∣tykes / and though the false shrewes conspyre and agree to gether agaynste the trew catholyke chyrche, yet for theyre contrary sectes so vary betwene them selfe that Luthera∣nys, [ C] Anabaptystes, Huyskyns, or Swynglianis wyth ma¦ny sectes mo, wolde one byte of a nothers nose. And where as they complayne that heretyques be punyshed here / yet one secte there punysheth and kylleth a noher among them selfe.

And thus good reders ye may easely se, y^t theyr felyng fay¦thes so dissonaunt amonge them selfe, so contraryouse and repugnaunte, be not wryten in theyr hartes as Tyndale sayth by the hande of god, whose spyryte is the inspyrer of vnyte, concorde, and peace / but is as I tolde you byfore, brethed and blowen into the brothels brestes, by the spyryt of dyscorde, debate, and dyssencyon the deuyll.

And yet for the better perceyuynge of Tyndales doc∣tryne

[ A] concernynge fayth: consyder ones agayne good re∣ders y^t he putteth two kyndes of fayth, an hystoricall fayth and a felyng faith, so that euery person that hath any faith, yt can not be by Tyndale but one of these two kynd••s, ey∣ther hystorycall fayth or felynge fayth. Now hystoricall fayth in the artycles of fayth, he putteth to be a byleuynge of a necessary trewth, atteyned and goten by an outwarde meane, as by herynge the thynge preached or redynge yt wryten / and this fayth he calleth faynte and feble, vnable eyther to laste and endure or to worke well, and for conclu∣syon the deuylles fayth. The tother kynde of fayth, that is to wyt the felyng fayth, he sayth is that fayth that god wry¦teth hym self in mannes herte, and therfore that is a felyng fayth. For he that hath yt in his herte of goddes owne wry¦tynge [ B] / he hath yt so that yt can neuer be w••shed oute, but must of necessite dwell and abyde with hym, and can neuer fayle but he shall fele yt in his herte / and that felynge ther∣of shall of necessyte make hym loue god euer, & euer worke well & neuer do dedely sy••ne, though he do neuer so many deuylyshe dedes thorow the frute of synne remaynynge in his fleshe and brekynge oute at his frayle members.

Now good reders let vs begyn at his storye fayth / and syth he sayth it cā neyther endure nor worke well: I wold wyt of hym whether yf the man dye forth wyth as sone as he hath yt, wyth a good purpose to be baptysed & to worke well yf he lyued therto, in suche mynde as many martyres dyed byfore theyr cristendome, shold he be saued wyth such hystorycall fayth wythout any other ferther felynge fayth [ C] or not. If he shall / then may y^e historycall fayth be suf••ycyēt for saluacion / ye & though yt be so faynt y^t yt may fayle yet may it per••ase laste longe & not fayle / & a man maye wyth yt worke in prayour, fastynge, and almouse dede, as well at the leste wyse as Cornelius Centurio the paynym dyd wythout yt. And then yf he were in suche place as he could not be baptysed for lakke of a mynyster, & so dyed wyth re∣pentaunce of his synne and suche hystorycall fayth, & such workynge wythout any farther felynge sholde he not be sa¦ued? If Tyndale say yes / then sayth he somwhat more for hystorycall fayth then will stande with his wordes byfore.

Now yf he saye naye / then syth the man can do no more for his parte, but byleue well and do well / and the felynge fayth that Tyndale speketh of must be by god infounded,

towarde the getynge wherof the man can hym selfe sayth [ A] Tyndale no more do then can the chyl••e in bygetynge of his owne father: I trow Tyndale shall haue no man that well cōsydereth the great good nature of god, geue his cre¦dence in that poynte.

Now yf Tyndale saye that in all suche cases god dothe vnto hym that byleueth onys wyth a story fayth, infounde the felynge fayth thereto, except the man haue on his own parte some other let and impedyment of synne: then say I that therby confesseth he that the mannys endeuour incly∣nyng his vnderstannyng to the seruice of hystoricall fayth, hath yet at the lest wise somwhat more done in him toward the getynge of the felynge fayth: whyche onely fayth Tyn¦dale calleth the ryght fayth, then the chyld can do to the ge¦tynge of his owne father. And so lyeth Tyndales tale in [ B] the duste.

I say also that yt sholde seme farther by Tyndale, that the hystorycall fayth ones goten / god shold not let of good congruence any more to infounde the felynge fayth into hym, not wystandynge any other synnes into whyche the man in goynge, caryed forth in his frayltye by the rage of concupiscence reygnynge and rulyng his weke sykly mem¦bers, then he letteth to kepe styll wythout any faylynge at any tyme that felynge fayth in all them that onys haue yt, not wythstandyng all the horryble and abomynable ••edes that euer they can do after. And so shold yt appere by this, that who so gete ones the hystorycall fayth, hath alwaye forthwith the felyng fayth also, though he were in the way towarde the doynge, ye or though he were doynge in dede [ C] neuer so great horryble myschyefe, so that he fall therto for frayltye. And then shall we lakke no felynge faythfull wre∣ches, but ye shall fynde inough.

I say also that yf to the hystoricall fayth goten by man, wyth all other good cyrcumstaunces that man by possyby∣lyte may put vnto yt, god doth euer adde and infounde the felynge fayth hym selfe, supplyenge by the congruence of his owne goodnesse the inbecyllyte and lakke of power vppon the mannys parte towarde atteynynge of his owne saluacyon, beynge the great hyghe gyfte of god so farre a∣boue the proporcyon of mannys naturall state: then is I saye loste and destroyed the effecte of all Tyndales deuy∣syon betwene hystoricall fayth and felynge fayth. For then

[ A] euery man that onys hath well the tone, is by & by sure of the tother / wythout whiche hys good workes were toward the rewarde all wrought in vayne / whiche thyng the lybe∣rall goodnes of god coulde not of cōgruence for any lacke vpon hys owne parte suffre.

And thus for y^e tone halfe of his dyuysyon that is to wyt the hystorycall fayth, ye se now good reders to what poynt Tyndale is brought. And now cōsyder that I speke here of hystorycall fayth, as of the fayth in necessary poyntes of the bylyefe, atteyned & goten by man / by outward meanys onely not that I thynke myn owne selfe y^• hystoricall fayth so attayned without the inwarde wurkyng of god, but by∣cause Tyndale so putteth it, therfore I thus reasone it, to thentent ye sholde therby se what thynge the trouth wolde [ B] wurke vppon Tyndals vntrewe posycyon.

I haue also forborne in all this whyle to speke any thyng of the sacrament of baptysme, bycause that Tyndale here in all hys mater of fayth bothe hystoricall fayth and felyng fayth, neuer maketh mencyon therof / as though the sacra∣ment had no parte in thys playe. By whyche obstynate sy∣lēce, men may as wel perceyue what he meneth, as though he spake it out. But yet to make hym somwhat saye ther¦in / we shall in the seconde parte of hys dyuysyon, that is to wytte in the consyderynge of hys felynge fayth, a lytell ap∣pose hym therin.

I aske hym therfore at such tyme as in the begynnynge there tourned togyther to the fayth two or thre thousande [ C] at onys, as dyd at the prechynge of saynt Peter as appe∣reth in the seconde chapyter of the Actes,* 1.83 and theruppon were chrystened / what toke they by theyr baptysme? hadde they therby bysyde the hystorycall fayth, goten by the pre∣chynge any new kynde of fayth, or new felyng of theyr for∣mar fayth infounded by god in theyr baptysme or not? yf not then as towchynge fayth and bylyefe / the hystorycall faith goten by that outward meane, is as good and as full as the fayth by god infounded inwardly. For I truste that Tyndale doth not thynke but that they hadde suche fayth as was able to serue them to saluacyon, all those that there truely turned, yf they had forth wyth vpon theyr baptysme deceaced.

Now yf Tyndale take the tother parte, & answere me y^t in the baptysme they had the felynge fayth infounded / then

foloweth it I saye that euery man of age & dyscrecyon whi¦che [ A] dewly cometh to baptysme, hath the felynge fayth to / syth that he hath by baptysme the ryghte fayth & the fayth suffycyent for saluacyon, whyche is by Tyndale none but the felynge fayth. And then be therby all they that come dewly to baptysme by Tyndals tale electes euerychone.

And yet it semeth ferther by Tyndals tale & his mayster Martins added vnto it, y^t yf he come to baptysme vndewly that is to wyt walkyng outwarde / yet in waye toward ad∣uowtry, sacrylege, or murder, so he bringe with him bylyef, his baptysme perfyteth all. For by Tyndals grauntynge that god infoundeth snffycyent perfeccyon of fayth in the baptysme, and affermyng that after the perfayt fayth had, the hauer therof may do such horryble dedes & for all that neuer fayle in his perfayt felynge fayth. I canne not as I [ B] sayd before (consyderyng that by Tyndals tale such horry∣ble dedes & such perfayt felynge fayth maye both abyde to gyther) perceyue or se why such dedes beyng yet in y^e course towarde the doyng, sholde before let y^e perfeccyon of fayth to be by god infounded / any more then they shold after let the same to be kepte & preserued, specyally syth Tyndals owne wurshypfull mayster Marten Luther, sayth expres∣sely that no chrysten man can be dāpned but yf he wyll not byleue. For nothynge he sayth can dampne hym but onely vnbylyefe. For all other synnys he sayth be supped vp and swalowed all at onys in the bylyefe. And therfor who so come to baptysme with onely bare bylyef / all his other syn∣nes as Luther calleth them, or hys horryble dedes as Tin¦dale calleth them, which he is by the frayltye of hy•• flesshe [ C] about for all his baptysme to do when he cometh h••me frō the fonte, can nothyng lette any perfeccyon to be by god in∣founded in hys baptysme. And then syth y^t perfec••yō mu••te be by Tyndale eyther the felyng fayth, or els the felyng of the faythe whyle there is by hym none other faythe suf∣fycyent: it foloweth that euery man whyche with hystory∣call fayth cometh to baptisme, is sure of y^e feling faith, how many synnys so euer he be ab••nte of feblenes & ••rayl••ye to comytte after. Now be it yf Tindale wyll for all this make any styckyng I can not tell what, in them y^• of age & discre∣cyon come vnto baptisme, & say there may be som•• lette vp∣pon theyr parte, by reason that they may be about to synne wyllyngly and eyther of purpose or malyce: lette vs con∣syder

[ A] and waye well thys mater, in them that come to bap∣tysme wythout any maner lette.

when the chyldren are baptysed, whyche kynde of fayth haue they? The hystorycall fayth or the felynge fayth? For fayth haue they muste, or ellys they canne neuer stande in goddes fauoure and be saued / wytnessynge saynte Poule, that wythout fayth it is impossyble to please god. And ther¦fore of trouth faith they haue. For though they come to the baptysme & be receyued to the font, in the fayth of theyr fa∣thers and of the hole chyrch that offereth them: yet with y^e baptysme is there by god infoūded into them his grate, the habyt of fayth hope & cheryte, wherwith they be made forth with perfayte mēbres of hys mystycall body the catholyke chyrch ī erth, & therby made īheritable vnto y^t blesse of heuē

[ B] Now aske I therfore Tyndale, which kynde of fayth is this? the hystorycall fayth or the felyng f••yth? Not the hy∣storicall I trow. For y^e chyldren haue not yet neyther redde nor herd many storyes. wherfore it must nedes be by Tyn∣dals own tale the felyng fayth. For mo kyndes of faith put¦teth he not but those twayne, nor none suffycyent for salua¦cyon but onely that same one / & suffycyent muste the fayth be that the chylde receyueth in the baptysme / for ellys were the chylde neuer the rather saued, in case he dyed as many chyldren do in the chrysome cloth or in the cradle.

Peraduenture Tindale gessyng now wher about I go wyll say that in the baptysme god infoūdeth into some the felyng fayth, that is to say into hys onely electes, & in theyr hartes he writeth / & that into some other he infoūdeth it not [ C] and they be the reprobates / & he wyll happely say that it is agred by doctours of the chyrch that god gyueth in y^e bap∣tysme not lyke grace to euery chylde. But vnto thys I answere, that though in the baptysme eyther at the more goodnes & more instāt prayour of y^e fathers or godfathers of the ••hylde, or for some other cause seene vnto his hyghe wysdom, he gyue some one greter grace then to some other yet gyueth he them all one kynde of grace and one kinde of fayth, though they dyffer in degrees / & as very a man is he that hath lytle stature, as he that hath a great, & a Pygmey as a Geaunt. And Tyndale sayth hym selfe in his answere vnto my dyaloge that our wurkes muste be as perfayt as the wurk••s of Cryst hym selfe / but fayth he sayth is suffy∣cyent though it be neuer so lytell.

And besyde thys as I sayed before, god gyueth vnto e••ery [ A] chylde in the baptysme the haby••e of ••hat fayth that 〈◊〉〈◊〉 suf∣fycyent for saluacyon / but th•••• is sayth Ty••dale n••ne but the felynge fayth / ergo by Tyndale the felynge fayth it is, wherof the habyt god infoundeth into euery chylde in the baptysme.

But yet syth I haue proued that yf the chylde haue any fayth, he hath by Tyndals tale the felyng fayth: ••ow wyll Tyndale peraduenture saye that the habyte o•• ••ayth is no fayth, bycause it is not actuall fayth whych 〈◊〉〈◊〉 hath not, for lacke of the vse of reason / for want whero•• ••e can not thynke vppon nor actually consent vnto any poynte of faythe.

But vnto thys I answere, that he maye by the same rea¦son saye that the chylde hath no reasonable soule, bycause [ B] he can not thynke vpon any reasonynge / and that therfore he lacketh the specyficall and kyndely dyfference that dyuy¦deth the kynde of man from all the kyndes of vnreasona∣ble brutyshe bestes, and then is the chylde no more man then a cal••e.

Also yf the habituall fayth be no fayth / then is the chyld for all the baptysme styll oute of the state of grace / or ellys muste Tyndale say that saynt Poule sayed vntrew,* 1.84 in tha•• he tolde the Hebrues that wythout fayth it is impossyble to please god.

Besydes thys yf habytuall fayth be no fayth at all for lacke of actuall thynkynge theruppon / than dyeth euery man out of the fayth that happeth to dye in hys slepe, had he neuer so good and greate actuall ••ayth when he went to [ C] bedde. For no man shall be saued for the fayth that he onys had, but for the fayth that he hath and in whyche h•• dyeth.

Therfore the trouth is, that the habytuall bylyefe is in the chylde, very bylyefe, though it be not actuall byleuyng and thynkynge vppon the fayth, as the habytuall reason is in the chylde very reason though it be not actuall reaso∣nynge and makynge of ••yllogysmys / and thenne it is as I saye no story ••ayth / & therfore by Tyndals tale none other then very felynge fayth, syth he putteth no mo kyndes of fayth nor none other ••ayth for su••••ycyent, & goddes wurke is so perfyte that he infoundeth in the baptysme none suffy¦cyent fayth.

How be it though thys be the trouth that the habytuall

[ A] fayth is very fayth, and infounded by god wyth the sacra¦ment of baptysme into euery chyld, and so that euery chyld hath therby the felyng faith yf Tindale tell vs trew: yet to put out all argument, I shall shortely strayne Tyndale to graūt a farther thynge, or ellys to forsake his mayster.

For ye shall vnderstande, that though the chyrche tea∣••heth that the habytull fayth is in the chyldren suffycyent / yet cometh Tyndales mayster Martyn Luther, and in his boke that he make••h agaynst the Anabaptistes, he teacheth by a longe processe that the yonge chyldren ha••e ••••foun∣ded the very actuall fayth in dede. And therfore Tyndale that is his scoler, maye not denye but that crystened chyl∣dren haue very fayth / & then syth not hystorycall for lakke of redynge of storyes, they muste nedes haue by Tyndales [ B] tale the felynge fayth.

Now y•• wyll aske peraduenture what then? and wher∣fore I go aboute to proue vnto Tyndale that by his wor∣des the chyldren in theyr baptysme haue by god the felyng fayth infounded: Now shall I tell you that thynge in few wordes lo.

I haue proued hym this poynt good reders, for bycause that vppon this muste yt clerely folowe by Tyndales tale magry Tyndales ••eth, that the pope, and the cardynales, and the whole clergye, and all the crysten people besyde, be the very playn electes of god, and shalbe saued euerychone as many as euer were crystened whyle they were ••hildren / and y^t they can neuer sinne dedely in all theyr liues though [ C] they do neuer so many horryble dedes, bycause as Tyn∣dale sayth by the felynge fayth euery one that hath yt, is so borne of god and so hath his seed in hym, that he may well do horryble dedes, but he can neuer do dedely synne after. And then doth he mych a mysse to rayle and ieste vpō them ye wote well.

Now can Tyndale neuer gete out of this net whyle he leueth, in whyche his folyshe false felynge fayth hath wrap¦ped hym / but yf he refuse not onely the doctryne of the ca∣tholyke chyrche of Cryste, but of his owne mayster Mar∣tyne antecryste also.

And yet foloweth yt farther vppon Tyndales tale also, that syth all the catholyke chyrche haue by his tale the fe∣lynge fayth, and therfore are all electes / and then he sayth that the electis hauyng the feling faith, be the very chyrch:

yt clerely foloweth I say by him, that y^e pope, & cardinales, [ A] and the clergy, and y^e whole crystē people, that is to say the knowen catholyque chyrche, is the very chyrche of Cryste / and that hym selfe and his felowes whyche he sayth are de¦parted oute therof as fro the chyrch of heretyques, are not departed out, nor neuer can by this tale of his departe oute of yt in this worlde / but euer hange styll theron as scabbes and bocchys vppon the bodye.

And thus ye se good reders to what good purpose Tindale hath by his felynge fayth sodaynly brought his chyrche so clene to the contrary of that he hath folyshely fumbled a∣boute all this whyle afore.

And surely good chrysten reder, as for felynge fayth yf he meane therby faste and sure bylyefe wythoute any mys∣truste [ B] or doute of the contrary / this felynge fayth is in the folke of the catholyque chyrche and in none other. If he meane by the fayth wryten in mēnes hartes, the faith wher¦of god worketh wyth mannys wyll into the consent, or the fayth by god infounded into mannys herte: this writynge of god in mannys harte is in the catholyque chyrch and no where elles. If he meane by his felynge fayth, any forther suertye of the poyntes that he byleueth, then onely on vn∣douted assent and adhesyon therunto: then is yt not fayth / but a nother kynde of reuelacion and an infusyon of know¦ledge beyond the kynde and nature of the fayth, & a thynge no lesse happy or blessed, but lesse merytoryouse then fayth. For god may•• where yt please hym of his mere grace wyth¦out any maner meryte, geue a creature y^• lyke degre of glo¦rye [ C] / and farre greater to, then other shall with theyr merite and hys grace attayne. But yet suche kynde of reuelacyon yf he geue yt any man / he geueth yt onely to suche as are trew members of his catholyke chyrch, and not repugnaūt vnto the ••••tholyque fayth. If he meane by his felyng faith any pleasure or comforte of hope, or any feruour and hete of charyte: this felyng is the felynge of those other two ver¦tues / not the felynge of the bare bylyef to whyche the secte of Luthe•• geueth all the glory, and whyche may be hadde and abyde ferme and faste in hys owne nature wythoute eyther hope or charyte, as by the wordes of saynte Poule playne appereth.* 1.85 And this felynge both concernynge hope and charyte, is in the catholyke chyrche and in none other secte. But what so euer hope those heretyques haue, or fe∣lynge

[ A] of any effeccyon / yt is but Tyndales false truste in stede of crysten hope, and Tyndales false translated loue in stede of chrysten cheryte. And suche hopers and suche lo∣uers, wene they them selfe neuer so well in fauour, and ne∣uer so great wyth god, nor neuer so sure of saluacyon, are yet no lesse bygyled then are the beggers that dreme they fynde great hepys of gold, and wax wonderouse gladde in theyr slepe wenynge them selfe awake.

And so fynally any maner felyng that aught is / y^e good members of the catholyke chyrche hath, and no secte of all these heretykes. But where as Tyndale sayeth he feleth, that who so euer haue his felynge fayth may do many hor∣ryble dedes wythout any dedely synne / and that who so e∣uer synne onys wyllyngly, shall ne••er be after forgeuen / [ B] & that god hath no respect to any good workes of men, but onely to fayth alone / and that the fre wyll of man can do no more in turnynge towarde god, then the hachet in tour∣nynge toward the hewar / nor that the man can do no more to the getyng of fayth, then the chyl•• to the bygetynge of his owne father / & where he feleth y^e shryfte is the inuency∣on of the deuyll, and synne to do any good workes of pe∣naunce, or to byleue that any good worke shall haue re∣warde in heuen, or to do any honour vnto the blessed sacra¦ment of the auter, any other then onely to byleue that yt is a memoryalll of Crystes passyon, and nothynge ellys ther in but only bare brede and wyne & starche in stede of brede / and where his felyng fayth also feleth, that folke shold not care for holy dayes nor fastyng days, nor honour any sayn¦tes, [ C] nor pray for theyr fathers soules, nor be boūde to kepe theyr vowes, but that freres may when they wyll lawfully wedde nūnes: all these felynges and many such other lyke, the catholyque chyrche feleth nothynge / nor no more doth no man but such as Tyndale is, that wyll not fa••le except he mende in tyme, for suche vnfaythfull felynge to fele the fyre of hell.

And now good crysten reders, ye se to what ende Tyn∣dales felynge fayth is come / wyth whyche dyuyded from the hystorycall fayth, he sayth he knoweth now whyche ys the trew scrypture of god, bycause he feleth yt wrytē in his herte by goddes owne hand / and that he byleueth yt no len¦ger now for the reachyng of the catholyke chyrch, of whom he lerned yt fyrste wyth a story fayth.

But yet ye se good reders that in all this processe of his [ A] felynge fayth, he answereth nothynge to saynt Austayne. For excepte he fele better then saynte Austayne felte, ellys whyle saynt Austayne confessed agaynste the Manacheys, that he wolde not byleue the gospell but for the authoryte of the chyrche / and founde no faute in that saynge when he was after byshoppe at the tyme of his retractacyōs, yt may bycome Tyndale well in that poynte to byleue the catho∣lyque chyrche styll, as saynt Austayne dyd.

And on y^e tother syde, yf he say that hym self feleth a bet∣ter fayth then saynte Austayne felt, in the selfe thynge tha•• saynte Austayne dyd then byleue as well as Tyndale doth now: then dare I be bold to say that euery man and womā y^t any felyng hath, can not fayle to fel Tindale for a proude fumblynge fole. [ B]

And that he so is in dede / ye shall yet the more fully fele by this. For yf yt were all trew that he sayde / yet hath hys owne wordes double proued, that the knowen catholyque chyrche is the very chyrche of Cryste. Fyrst in that I haue vppon his owne wordes proued you, that yf he sayde trew, yt muste therof nedes folowe that all crysten people beyng baptysed in childhed, must haue the felyng fayth / and then were they by his owne dyffynycyon the very chyrche.

Secundly now consydre well this good reders, that as he sayth he byleueth not now no lenger whych is the trew scrypt••re, bycause the chyrch so teacheth hym, but bycause he feleth yt writen in his herte by y^e spyryte of god: so sayth he that in lyke wyse he byleueth not now no lenger any ar∣tycle of the fayth bycause he fyndeth yt in the bokes, but by¦cause [ C] he feleth yt wryten in hys owne harte by the spyryte of god.

Now sayth Tindale not nay, but that as he came fyrst to the knowledge of the artycles of the fayth by the preaching or redynge of the bokes of the scrypture / so came he fyrste to the knowledge whych was the scripture by the teachyng of the knowen catholyque chyrche.

Now say I therfore, that graūtyng hym to say well and trew in that he sayth be byleueth no leger now the artycles of his fayth for the bokes of the scrypture, nor byleueth the scrypture to be the trew scrypture for the teachynge of the catholyke chyrche / yet foloweth yt for all that, that in lyke¦wyse as that by the preachynge or redynge wherof he fyrst

[ A] came to the byleuynge of the fayth, is the very trewe scryp¦ture / so is the knowen catholyke chyrche by whych he fyrst came into the byleuynge of the scrypture, and by whose te∣chynge he toke it and percey••ed it for holy wrytynge and for the very scrypture, the same chyrche is in lykewyse I saye the very trewe chyrche, syth that orygynally the scryp∣ture is knowen as Tyndale hym selfe confesseth by none other chyrche / as the fayth is orygynally lerned by none other scrypture.

And thus good christen readers to make an ende of this boke / here ye clerely se that I haue not onely reproued you clerely Tyndals false felynge fayth, and auoyded hys solu¦cyon playnely, by whyche he wolde auoyde that argument that clerely proueth the catholyke knowen chyrche to be [ B] the very chyrche of Cryste, by that the trewe scrypture is knowen by the same chyrche and none other: but I haue also yet onys agayne clerely proued you the comon knowē catholyke chyrche to be the very chyrche of Cryste, by the ve••y wordes of Tyndale hym selfe, wyth whyche he wolde proue the contrary. For thys argument by whyche the knowen catholyke chyrche is proued the very chyrch, why∣che argumēt Tyndale hath all thys whyle bumbled about to soyle / abydeth in conclusyon so stronge and ineuytable, that in the laborynge to soyle it Tyndale hath double con¦fermed it.

And surely thys is no meruayle. For where as all herety¦kes very well perceyue, that by the playne promyses of our [ C] sauyour hym selfe clerely cōtayned in the gospell, hys chyr∣che can neuer be brought into any dampnable errour / and that yf it myghte,* 1.86 there were no suerty neyther of doctryne nor of the scrypture selfe, & on the tother syde yf they sholde graunte the doctryne of the catholyke chyrche to be trewe, then were all theyr heresyes drowned: for thys cause lo¦beynge dreuen to confesse that the chyrche can not fall into dampnable errour, they be dreuen to seke aboute for some other chyrche, bycause the sure treuth of the chyrch damp∣neth & destroyeth theyr heresyes. And yet was there neuer any of them but that in goynge frome the knowen catho∣lyke chyrche to seke out another, he walked so wyld about, that who so loked on and byhelde hym, wolde saye the man were blynde / and eche walketh a dyuerse waye, & assygneth a dyuerse chyrche, neuer one lyke another.

And for ensample ye maye consyder twayne / Tyndale [ A] for one, whose chyrche ye haue harde all redy.

The secunde shall be frere Baro••s, of whose chyrche I wyll som what shewe you before I fynysshe thys worke.

Thus endeth the .vii. boke.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Iohan. 16
• * 1.2

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.3

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.4

  1. Corint••. ••
• * 1.5

  Lucae. 11.
• * 1.6

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• * 1.7

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.8

  Matt••••. ••••••
• * 1.9

  2. C••ri••••••. ••.
• * 1.10

  Ap••••. ••.
• * 1.11

  Apo••••. 22
• * 1.12

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. 5
• * 1.13

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• * 1.14

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• * 1.15

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. 25.
• * 1.16

  Iac••••i. 2.
• * 1.17

  Iacobi. 5.
• * 1.18

  2. Thimot. 1.
• * 1.19

  Mat••••. 2••
• * 1.20

  Psa••. 25
• * 1.21

  Lucae. 22.
• * 1.22

  〈…〉〈…〉
• * 1.23

  Matt••. 23.
• * 1.24

  1. Corinth. 7.
• * 1.25

  Matth. 26
• * 1.26

  Matth. 26
• * 1.27

  Ma••••••. 12.
• * 1.28

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.29

  Ioh••n. 16
• * 1.30

  Matth. 28.
• * 1.31

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• * 1.32

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.33

  Matthe•• 16.
• * 1.34

  M••t••••. 1.
• * 1.35

  Iohan. 15.
• * 1.36

  1 Io••an. 1••.
• * 1.37

  2. Corinth. 3.
• * 1.38

  1•• Corinth. 12.
• * 1.39

  Ap••••a. ••.
• * 1.40

  Matth. 11.
• * 1.41

  Lucae. 1••.
• * 1.42

  Iohan. 26
• * 1.43

  Marc••. 16.
• * 1.44

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. 54.
• * 1.45

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.46

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.47

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.48

  Iohan. 16
• * 1.49

  Matth. 28.
• * 1.50

  〈◊〉〈◊〉. 6
• * 1.51

  Matth. 10.
• * 1.52

  Psalmo•• 54.
• * 1.53

  Matthe. 18.
• * 1.54

  Iohan. 1••
• * 1.55

  Genesis. 9.
• * 1.56

  Matth. 13.
• * 1.57

  Matth. 13.
• * 1.58

  1. Corint••. 1••
• * 1.59

  Ia••••••i. 2.
• * 1.60

  Lucae. 9.
• * 1.61

  1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉. ••••.
• * 1.62

  1. C••rint••. 1••.
• * 1.63

  Iac••••i. 2.
• * 1.64

  Iohan. 15.
• * 1.65

  Ioha•• 8.
• * 1.66

  Corin. 13.

  Iaco. 2.
• * 1.67

  Canti. 6.
• * 1.68

  zachar. 1.
• * 1.69

  Esaiae. 4 5
• * 1.70

  Apoca. 3.
• * 1.71

  1. R••g••. 19.••3
• * 1.72

  2 R••gum. 1••
• * 1.73

  1. Tim••t••. 1.
• * 1.74

  I••h••n. 2
• * 1.75

  Num. 12.
• * 1.76

  Iaco. 10.
• * 1.77

  〈1 paragraph〉〈1 paragraph〉
• * 1.78

  Ex••••••. ••2.
• * 1.79

  Psal. 2••
• * 1.80

  1. Thes. 4••
• * 1.81

  Ioh••n. 1••
• * 1.82

  1 ••e••••i. 1••
• * 1.83

  A••••u••••••. 2••
• * 1.84

  Hebrae. 11.
• * 1.85

  1. Corinth. 13.
• * 1.86

  〈…〉〈…〉