The co[n]futacyon of Tyndales answere made by syr Thomas More knyght lorde chau[n]cellour of Englonde

About this Item

Title
The co[n]futacyon of Tyndales answere made by syr Thomas More knyght lorde chau[n]cellour of Englonde
Author
More, Thomas, Sir, Saint, 1478-1535.
Publication
Prentyd at London :: By wyllyam Rastell,
1532.
Rights/Permissions

To the extent possible under law, the Text Creation Partnership has waived all copyright and related or neighboring rights to this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above, according to the terms of the CC0 1.0 Public Domain Dedication (http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/). This waiver does not extend to any page images or other supplementary files associated with this work, which may be protected by copyright or other license restrictions. Please go to http://www.textcreationpartnership.org/ for more information.

Subject terms
Tyndale, William, d. 1536. -- Answere unto Sir Thomas Mores dialoge -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Protestantism -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A07693.0001.001
Cite this Item
"The co[n]futacyon of Tyndales answere made by syr Thomas More knyght lorde chau[n]cellour of Englonde." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A07693.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 15, 2024.

Pages

More.

[ C] Lo good crysten reder this holy spirytuall man, at laste I wyste well wold somwhat shewe hym selfe, what goostly spyryte inspireth hym. For here you se for all his holy saluta¦cyon at the begynnynge, wyth gay wordes of grace & lyght and fayth and feruent loue: he bloweth and blustreth oute at laste his abhomynable blasphemy agaynst the blessyd sa¦cramentes of Cryste, and lyke the deuyls ape maketh mok¦kes and mowes at the holy ceremonyes, that the spyryte of god hathe so many hundred yeres taught hys holy catho∣lyque chyrche.

And here perceyue yet the false wylynes of the deuyll in vtterynge of his dreggys and poysoned draught. He coue∣reth his cuppe a lytle and shadoweth the colour of his enue¦nemed wyne, that yt may be dronken downe gredely ere the

Page xxxiiii

parell be perceyued. For he maketh here as though he foūde [ A] no faute, but in that the sygnyfycacyons of the sacraments be not opened and declared vnto the people, as though yf that were done he were contente / and that he mokketh not the sacramentes but the mynysters that openeth not the by∣tokenynges therof.

But I shall fyrste shewe you that he playeth the deuyls dysor euyn in this poynte, all though he ment no ferther / & then shall I farther shewe you what myschyef he meaneth more, and proue yt you by expresse wordes of his owne.

Fyrste I saye yt is a lewde and a knauysshe raylynge vp¦pon the sacramentes of our sauyour Cryste, to lyken and cō¦pare them in any maner wise vnto such scornefull thynges, as the anoyntynge wyth holy oyle vnto butter smeryuge, wyth other suche lyke knauysshe toyes whyche no wreche [ B] wolde do but such as hath the very name of the holy sacra∣mentes in hatereth and dyspyte.

Now where he sayeth that his holy spirytuall sorte wyll alway so vyllanousely esteme the sacramentes, but yf men tell them the reasons and bytokenynges of them to the edy¦fyenge of theyr soules: yt wyll be great besynes and mych a do to edyfye and buyld vp the soules of such a sorte, which the deuyll hathe by the blaste of his mouth throwen downe so depe and frusshed all to fytters. But I praye god to whō nothynge is impossyble / to byeld them onys agayne vppon ye rokke of his fayth, frō whiche they shew them self so farre fallen down yt they be full vnlykely to ryse. For truly if they stode theruppon theyr hertys wolde abhorre to vttre suche frantyque fantasyes. For as touchynge the sygnifycacyōs [ C] and bytokenynges of the blessed sacramentes, the lacke of knowlege wherof Tyndale wolde make seme a suffycyent cause of his vilanouse blasphemy: all good peple that haue the vse of reason and come to these sacramentes wyth good deuocyon, be taught and do thynke and conceyue in theyre hertes, that god was incarnate and borne god and man for our saluacyon, and suffred his passyon, and dyed for our re¦dempcyon, and that we were redemed to heuē wyth his bles¦syd blood, and that wythout hym we sholde neuer haue ben saued but had vtterly loste heuen by the synne of Adam / and for this cause we call hym our sauyour and beleue that he hath promysed vs that yf we be crystened and kepe his holy commaundementes, and for the brekyng be sory and turne

Page xxxv

[ A] agayne by penaunce / god wyll brynge vs to heuen that he hath promysed vs and bought vs to. And they beleue th•••• he hath ordeyned here holy sacramentes, whych he wyll that we shall receyue wyth reuerence, and that euery man wyth those sensyble sacramentes excepte the faute be in hym selfe, receyueth some inwarde grace & ayde of god by the merytes of Crystes passyō and by his holy promyse and ordinauns / so that vnto all good crysten men the outwarde sensyble sy∣gnes in all the sacramentes and holy ceremonyes of crystes chyrch, by one generall and comen sygnyfycacyon of them all, bytoken and do sygnyfye and that ryght effectually, an inwarde secrete gyfte and inspiracion of grace ffused in to the soule wyth the receyuyng of that holy sacrament by the holy spirite of god.

[ B] This comen sygnifycacyon of the sacramentes haue all ye comenaltye of crysten people / & they beleue not onely that the sacramentes be tokens of suche grace and do sygnifye it, but also be in some maner wyse a meane to come to the ge¦tynge therof, bycause god hath so ordeyned.

But vnto Tyndale & his holy spirituall sorte, this gere is yet to groce for theyr subtyll thynne wyttes.

For that all crysten people haue this fayth and sygnyfy∣cacyon of sacramentes, Tyndale can not denye them / but if he lyste to bylye them.

But why trow you can not this sygnifycacyō serue. Tyn¦dale? veryly bycause he byleueth yt not / for he byleueth not that any ceremonye or sacramēt eyther is in the worke ther∣of any meane to get any grace at all. And in almoste all the [ C] sacramentes he playnly saythe that they neyther cause any grace nor any grace do sygnifye, nor be no sacramentes at all / as by his owne wordes I shall hereafter shew you.

But in the meane while for as mych as in his preface here he maketh as though he cared but for the declaracyon of ye tokens and sensyble sygnes of the sacramentes and ceremo¦nyes: I haue shewed hym the great and chyef sygnifycaciō of all / that is to wyt that they betoken the insensyble grace that god geueth them in to the soule thorow the merytes of Crystes holy passyon. And this is the very chyef sygnifyca∣cyon that all holy doctours note & marke in the sacramētes / as apperyth by the dyffynicyons that in theyr bokes they geue therunto.

But nowe wyll not Tyndale sette a strawe the more

Page xxxvi

by the anoyntynge wyth holy oyle / then by smerynge wyth [ A] vnhalowed butter, but yf men tell hym some ferther thynge therby that may edyfye hys soule and make it better. For as for grace edyfyeth not his soule / for god byeldeth not so fast therwyth as hym selfe helpeth the deuyll to pull it downe agayne and cast it quyte away, so that it is neuer the better. And therfore he wyll yt hys holy spyrytuall sorte shall set all the holy ceremonyes and sacramētes at naught, but yf men can tell them what other specyall thynge is ment by the wa∣ter of baptysme, and by the oyle in confyrmacyon and eney∣lynge, and by the cerymonyes of the masse, and by the salte, and by the asshes, and by the holy water, & by the blessynge of all suche maner of thynges / vppon all whych for ye mean¦whyle tyll all thys be tolde & taught hym, he thynketh yt it becometh hym well agaynst crystes holy sacramētes to ieste [ B] and mokke and mow and rayle and skofe and ryally playe the rybawld resemblyng the salte to sand and the holy oyle to smeryng of some bareld butter. Ah blasphemouse beste to whose rorynge and lowynge no good crysten man can with out heuynes of herte gyue ere.

Nowe can men and do also for the more parte of these thynges gyue good causes and playne open reasons, bothe of the sygnyfycacyons and of the spyrytuall profyte and bo¦dyly bothe. And yf that of any suche sacramentes or ceremo¦nyes gyuen of olde by god vnto his blessyd apostles, and by them delyuered vnto hys chyrche, and therin euer synnys fro hand to hand contynewed / it hath pleased the spyryte to let his people haue and enioye the profyte wythout declara¦cyon [ C] of the specyall betokenynge, other then the secrete grace gyuyn thē therin: is not Tyndale wene ye well ouer seen to mocke the sacrament and refuse the grace, bycause god wyll not make hym so secret of hys counsayll as to tell hym why he toke such an owtward sygne rather then suche an other / and then aske god almyghty why he wolde rather haue vsed for a ceremonye salte then sande whyle sande is so good a scorer, and why rather asshes then erthe syn man was made of erthe and not of asshes, and why in baptysme rather water then wyne whyle wyne wyll wasshe as clene, & why rather oyle then butter whyle ye tone wyll sinere aswell as ye tother wyll anoynte, and then why rather an halowed candell then an vnholowed torche yt wyll gyue more lyght, and fynally why any bodyly ceremonyes or sacramentes at

Page xxxvii

[ A] all, about grace to be gyuē to the spyrytuall sowle that god myghte aswell do wythout / and yf god lyste not to make Tyndale an answere and tell hym all thys gere: then wyll he lyke a spyrytuall man set all suche bodyly ceremonyes & sacramentes at nought / and say god what he wyll, Tindale wyll glose hys texte as it please hym, and then byleue as he lyste who shall let hym.

when our lorde in ye olde testamēt descrybed so seryously all the apparell of the preestes / dyd he tell the people ther∣wyth all the causes why.* 1.1 Of sume we se that he dyd, as why he wolde not haue Aaron ascēde vnto the awlter by degrees But of all hys apparell,* 1.2 and all the fasshyon of the taberna∣cle, and the awlter, and the arche of the testament, and the ceremonyes of the expiacyon or purgyng of the tabernacle, [ B] and sanctyfyeng of all the vessels, and consecratynge of the preestes wyth the rytys and ceremonyes of all theyr sacry∣fyce: dyd god I saye tell the people what all the outwarde ceremonyes fygnyfyed? nay, nor what sygnyfycacyon had the sacrament of cyrcūsycyon neyther, other then that who so obserued it not amonge them sholde fall in hys indygna¦cyon and therby perysshe and who so fulfylled it sholde be in hys fauour and ascrybed therby in to the nomber of hys electe and peculyer chosen peple. But why he rather wylled them to haue the marke and token of cyrcumsicyon then an other, or why that in the tabernacle, arche, and awlter, appa¦rell, sanctyfyeng, and sacryfyce, our lorde chose those out∣ward sygnes and fasshyons that are wryten in Exodo, Nu¦meri, and Leuitico before other, or what he sygnyfyed and [ C] ment by euery of the same: that I se not that god taughte ye people / and yet had they thanke for the kepynge, and sholde haue ben shent for the brekynge.

Now yf our spyrytuall father Tyndale had ben there, yt in euery commaundement wyll neuer cease serchynge tyll he come to the very botom and so iudgeth all thynge / when he sholde in all those thynges haue serched and sowght and cowlde fynde few thynges other then allegoryes, of whyche dyuerse men dyuersly diuyne, and all whyche he lyttell set∣teth by, and sayth they proue nothyng / and the very causes and sygnyfycacyons he cowlde not haue founden though he wolde haue mused out hys brayne: then wolde he not haue set a ry••••he by all that god had deuysed nor wolde ha∣ue kept it at all, lest he beynge so spyrytuall sholde haue ser¦ued

Page xxxviii

as he sayth visyble thynges. Is nothere a wyse worke [ A] of Tyndale.

But he wyll happely say that in the olde law thys was lesse mater / for that was the law that was all in shawdoes and darkenes of fygures. But now in the law of lyghte in whyche the veyle is taken away and all set open: Tyndale can not abyde it to be ignorant of any sacrament or cery∣monye of any thynge set therby, but yf he serche and fynde the vttermost sygnyfycacyon therof. Surely as lyghtsome as it is, and as open as all thynge is now that the veyle of the temple is withdrawen: yet wyll not Tyndale fynde out the proper causes and sygnyfycacyons of these sacramētes and ceremonyes of the olde law, thys seuen yere seuentene tymes tolde.

But go me to the new law & to those sacramentes which [ B] Tyndale agreeth for sacramentes, whyche be onely twayn, baptysme and the sacrament of the awter / in whych though he be content to call them sacramentes, yet hath he dyuerse¦full erronyouse opynyons and very fals faythes. But be∣gynne therfore as I sayd at baptysme, when our sauyoure shewed vnto Nichodemus that except a man were borne a∣gayne of water and the spyryto,* 1.3 he cowlde not enter in to ye kyngedome of heuyn: he tolde hym there the necessyte of baptysme, but not the proper sygnyfycacyon of the water why it pleased god to put it for the sacrament, by whyche we sholde enter in to heuyn. Nor when he sent hys disciples to go forth and baptyse: he shewed them not as farre forth as the gospell telleth, for what proper sygnyfycacyon god [ C] set the water in that sacrament before any other thynge / but onele shewed them that so he wolde it sholde be, & bad them go shewe it and do it. Nor I fynde not that in theyr bapty∣synge, they shewed vnto the people that thyng, that bycause water wassheth and clenseth, therfore god had appoynted it vnto the sacramēt that wassheth and clenseth our soules. And yet who so shall say that the water hath for that cause a conuenyent symylytude for the mater / shall saye very well. And he shall also saye well, that wyll saye as doth the holy apostle Paule,* 1.4 where he lykeneth the baptysme to a kynde of beryenge wyth our lord in hys sepulcre, and the rysynge out therof to a kynde and maner of risyng agayne with our lorde in hys resurreccyō in to a new maner & kynde of clene lyfe. And when he sheweth that the brede is made one of

Page xxxix

[ A] many greynes or cornes, and the wyne made one of many grapes: he toke a very conuenyent allegorye and symyly∣tude and sygnyfycacyō where vppon he myghte shewe that all we chrysten people that are made pertycypant of that ho¦ly brede and that holy wyne, chaunged and turned in cryst holy flesshe and blood (of whyche twayne euery one is euer more with the other) ought of many men to be made as one and in Cryst and with Cryst our hed, encorporate all in one mystycall body.

But yet though these thynges be meruelously well sayd and other thynges mo bothe haue ben and may be founden, that may be well alleged for good and conuenyent sygnyfy¦cacyons of those two sacramētes: yet doth not ye apostle tell vs that those sygnyfycacyons be the very thynges and the [ B] onely propretees for whyche god appoynted those outward sygnes of water in the tone sacrament and brede and wyne in the tother byfore all other ensyble thynges, of whiche he myght haue made the outwarde sygnes of those sacramen∣tes yf it had lyked hym. But as the hygh knowlege of god for saw all those propretees that haue ben founden, and all that any man cowlde fynde forther therin: so saw he many moo peraduenture whyche no man hath founden yet, and whrof he hath made no man of hys coūsayle / no more then why he wolde haue any vysyble token at all in the thynge whyche he cowlde haue pefytlydone wythout them and in many personys hath so done and doth.

And therfore Tyndale taketh and euyll way to stykke vppō that poyute so styffely, that he letteth not wyth open blas∣phemy [ C] to say that he had as leue sande as holy salte, and be smered wyth vnhalowed btter as anoynted wyth the holy chrysme, whyche he calleth charmed oyle, bycause god wyll not shewe hym euery specyall thynge that they sygnyfy be∣syde the generall sygnifycacyon of inuysyble grace, for that is comonly taught all redy, and euery specyall sygnyfyca∣cyone that the scrypture expresseth is openly preched also. And bysdes that, suche ygnyfycacyons as are not there expressed & may seme conuenyent for them, be bothe taught and wryten. what wyll Tyndale aske more?

But no reason can contente hym / for he sayth playnly, that who so euer do not vnderstande all the sygnyficacions of all the outwarde sy∣gnes in the sacramentes: yt were as good to leue the sacramentes vnmynystred vnto hym as mynystred. where vppon yt foloweth whereso euer

Page xl

at an Ester the people sholde be houseled, all be yt that they [ A] be taught and do byleue that in ye forme of brede is the very holy body of our sauyour Cryste hym selfe, and that yf they receyue hym wyth vnbylyef oute of hope or oute of charyte, and be not in peace and crysten loue wyth all people, or n∣tēde to kepe styll & cōtynew in any dedly synne, they receyue theyr housell to theyr harme and parell of dampnacion / and yf they receyue yt the contrarye wyse, they shall reeyue of god great spirytuall grace therwyth, thorow goddes holy ordynaunce by the merytes of Crystes passyon / and so haue geuen them such good counsell and exhortacyon on farther as the pore preste can: yet thynketh Tyndale that except he tell them ferther other sygnifycacyons of the sacrament, the pe∣ple were as good vnhowseled as howseled. But god be thā∣keth he is eyther deceyued or lyeth. [ B]

Now foloweth yt also that yf the sacramēt were as good vnmynistred as mynistred to who so euer is not taught the proper sygnifycacyons of the outwarde token in the sacra∣ment, as Tyndale here vnder a blasphemous iestynge fas∣shyon telleth vs: then foloweth yt I saye that there was ne∣uer chylde crystened synnys crystendome fyrst begane, but that yt hadde bene as good to haue lefte it vncrystened, and neuer to haue let water touche yt, bycaue yt coulde not be taught what the water sygnifyed. And let hym say what he wyll, but how so euer he couer and colour yt for the whyle / surely so wold he haue yt. For whyle he goth aboute to geue all our saluacyon to fayth alone, and to take all grace & all meryte vtterly from all outward workes, and yet seeth that he may not boldely at the begynnyng vtterly dyspyse bap∣tysme [ C] nor ye blessed sacramēt of the auter: he wolde go fyrst as nere yt as he may. And therfore reiectynge the remanaūt by and by / he suffreth them twayne to tary for ye whyle. But he wyll haue them serue but for bare sygnes & tokens, and sayth that they profyte nothynge, but onely by the declara∣cyon of theyr sygnifycacyons. And thereby meaneth he fyrst that where so euer occasyō of such declaracyō fayleth: there the sacrament sholde serue of nought. And so ye se that as for chyldern he wolde haue none baptysed in dede / and that thynge ones obteyned, wythin a whyle after no more he wolde no menne neyther.

Lo thus ye se to what a dyuelyshe ende Tyndals tale cō∣meth, wyth his rebauldouse raylynge vppon ye sacramētes,

Page xli

[ A] all though he ment no worse then he maketh for here in his preface / in which he wolde peraduēture seme to meane none other, but yt the sacramētes coulde serue of nought, excepte theyr proper sygnyfycacyons were declared and taught to them that receyue them, other sygnifycacyons or otherwyse declared thē they haue ben wonte these many hundred yeres to be. wherin if he ment but so / yet haue I shewed you many festly that he hath a very frantyke foly therin.

But to thentent that ye shall not be so deceyued by hym: I shall shewe you farther that he meaneth yet mych worse / & that he meaneth vtterly as he playnly sayth / yt of the .vii. holy sacramētes fyue be none at all, & that thoder twayne be nothynge frtefull neyther. And ye shall farther well per∣ceyue, yt Tyndale hym selfe in neyther nother of the twayn, [ B] that is to wyt neyther in baptysme nor in the sacrament of the auter / doth byleue a ryght. For the clere perceyuynge of all whych thynges / I shall reherse you his own wordes wry¦ten in diuerse places of his abhominable boke of obedience. And fyrste wyll we speke of these fyue whych he sayth be no sacramentes at all / that is to wyt confyrmacyon, penaunce, order, matrymony, and anelynge.

Notes

Do you have questions about this content? Need to report a problem? Please contact us.