A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie.

The B. of Sarisburie.

There haue beene Aultares (saith M. Hardinge) euen from the Apostles time, and that euen as it is vsed now, farre of from the Body of the Church. Neither coulde the people beneathe heare the Priest standinge aboue at the Aultar, or vnderstande, what he meante: but onely were instructed by holy reuerende Ceremonies, and gaue consent vnto al, that was saide by the Priest, and yet knew not, what he saide.

This man coulde neuer vtter so many vntruthes togeather without some spe∣cial Priuilege. For first, where he saith, The Apostles in their time erected Aultares. It is wel knowen, that there was no Christian Churche yet builte in the Apostles time. For, the Faithful for feare of the Tyrannes were faine to méete togeather in Priuate Houses, in Uacant places, in Woodes, and Forestes, and in Caues vn∣der the grounde. And may we thinke, that Aultars were builte before the Church? Uerily Origen,* 1.1 that liued twoo hundred yeres after Christe, hath these woordes against Celsus, Obijcit nobis, quòd non habeamus Imagines, aut Aras, aut Templa. Celsus chargeth our Religion with this, that wee haue neither Images, nor Aultars, nor Churches.

Likewise saithe Arnobius,* 1.2 that liued somwhat after Origen, writinge against the Heathens. Accusatis nos, quòd nec templa habeamus, nec imagines, nec aras. ye accuse vs, for that wee haue neither Churches, nor Images, nor Aultars.

And Uolaterranus,* 1.3 and Uernerius testifie,* 1.4 that Sixtus Bishop of Rome, was the first, that caused Aultars to be erected. Therefore, M. Hardinge was not wel aduised, so confidently to say, That Aultars haue euer beene, euen sithence the Apostles time.

Neither afterwarde, when Aultars were first vsed, and so named, were they streight way builte of stoane, as Durandus and such others say,* 1.5 they must néedes be, and that, Quia petra erat Christus, Because Christe was the stoane. For Gerson saith,* 1.6 that Syluester Bishop of Rome firste caused stoane Aultars to be made, and willed that no man should Consecrate at a woodden Aultar, but him selfe one∣ly, and his Successours there. And notwithstanding bothe for continuance, and staidinesse,* 1.7 suche Aultars were vsed in some places, as it appeareth by Gregorius Nyssenus S. Basiles brother, yet it is plaine by S. Augustine,* 1.8 that in his time in Aphrica they were made of Tymber. For he saith, That the Donatistes in their rage wounded the Priest, and brake a sundre the Aultare bourdes: And againe he saith, That the Deacons dewtie was to carry, or remoue the Aultar: Whiche thinge cannot be ex∣pounded of a heape of stoanes, but onely of the Communion Table. And therefore S. Chrysostome commonly calleth it 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, The holy bourde, And S. Augu∣stine,* 1.9 Mensa Domini, The Lordes Table: As other Fathers also do in infinite places.

And notwithstanding it were A Table, yet was it also called An Aultar: Not for that it was so in déede, but onely by allusion vnto the Aultars of the olde law. And so Ireneus* 1.10 calleth Christe our Aultar: And Origen* 1.11 calleth Our harte, our Aultar: Not that either Christe, or our hartes be Aultars in deede: but onely by a Meta∣phore, or a manner of speache. Suche were the Aultars, that were vsed by the olde Fathers, immediatly after the Apostles time.

Nowe, whether it may séeme likely, that the same Aultars stoode so farre of, from the hearinge of the people, as M. Hardinge so constantly affirmeth: I referre mée selfe to these authorities, that here folow.

Eusebius thus describeth the forme,* 1.12 and furniture of the Churche in his time: Absoluto templo, ac sedibus excelsissimis ad honorem praesidentium, & subsellijs ordine

collocatis, ornato, & post omnia Sancto Sanctorum, videlicet Altari, in medio constituto &c. The Churche beinge ended, and comely furnished with high Thrones, for the honour of the rulers, and with stalles beneathe set in order, and last of al, the Holy of Holies, I meane, The Aultar, beinge placed in the middest. Eusebius saith not, the Aultar was set at the ende of the Q••ter, But in the middest of the Churche amonge the people.

S. Augustine* 1.13 likewise saith thus, Christus quotidiè pascit: Mensa ipsius est illa in medio constituta. Quid causae est, ô audientes, vt mensam videatis, & ad epulas non ac∣cedatis? Christe feedeth vs daily: and this is his table here set in the middest. O my hea∣rers, what is the mater, that ye see the table, and yet come not to the meate?* 1.14 In the Coun∣cel* 1.15 of Constantinople it is written thus: Tempore Diptychorū, cucurrit omnis mul∣titudo cum magno silētio circumcirca Altare, & audiebant. When the Lesson, or the Chap∣ter was a readinge, the people with silence drew togeather, rounde aboute the Aultar, and gaue eare. And to leaue others, Durandus examining the cause, why the Priest tur∣neth him selfe aboute at the Aultar, yeldeth this reason for the same: In medio Ec∣clesiae aperui os meum.* 1.16 In the middest of the Churche I opened my mouthe. And Pla∣tyna noteth, that Bonifacius Bishop of Rome, was the first, that in the time of the Ministration diuided the Priest from the people.

To leaue farther allegations, wée sée by these few, that the Quier was then in y^e Bodie of y^e Churche, diuided with Rayles from the rest, whereof it was called Cancelli, a Chauncel, and commonly of the Greekes Presbyterium, for that it was a place specially appointed vnto the Priestes, and Ministers, and shut vp from al o∣thers,* 1.17 for disturbinge the holy Ministerie, as it appeareth notably by the storie of S. Ambrose, that willed the Emperour Theodosius him selfe to departe foorthe, and by Nazianzenus in the life of S. Basile,* 1.18 and by a Decrée vnder the name of Clemens, and by the Councel of Laodicea concerninge the same:* 1.19 and, as it may be geathered by S. Chrysostome,* 1.20 at certaine times of the Seruice was drawen with Courtaines.* 1.21

Euen at this day in y^e great Churches at Millaine, Naples, Lions, Mens, & Rome, and in the Churche of S. Laurence in Florence the Priest at his Seruice standeth towardes the Weast, and so hath his face stil vpon the people. And therefore Du∣randus saith, In suche places the Priest needeth not to turne himselfe rounde, when he saith Dominus vobiscum, And saluteth the people.

And where as M. Hardinge imagineth, that the people for distance of place, coulde not heare what the Priest saide, a man that hath considered the Olde Fa∣thers with any diligence, may soone sée, he is far deceiued.* 1.22 For Chrysostome saith, The Deacon at the holy Mysteries stoode vp, and thus spake vnto the people, Orem us pa∣riter omnes: Let vs pray al togeather. And againe he saith, The Priest and the people at the Ministration talke togeather:* 1.23 The Priest saithe, The Lorde be with you: The people answeareth, And with thy sprite. Iustinian the Emperour commaunded, that the priest should so speake alowde at the holy Ministration, As the people might heare him. Clemens Alexandrinus saith,* 1.24 Est ergo, quod est hîc apud nos Altare, terrestris congre∣gatio eorum, qui sunt dedicati orationibus: qui veluti vnam vocem habent Communem, & vnam mentem. The Aultare, that we haue, is an earthly Congregation of men geuen to praiers, whiche haue, as it were, bothe voice and minde common togeather. And to leaue re∣hersal of others,* 1.25 Bessarion saith, Sacerdote verba illa pronunciante, assistens populus in vtra{que} parte respondet, Amen. The Priest speakinge these woordes, the people standinge by at eche parte of the Sacrament, or on euery side, saith, Amen.

Now iudge thou good Reader, what trueth may séeme to be, in that M. Har∣dinge addeth hereto, That the people remaining in seemely wise in the neather parte of the Chur∣che, was instructed by certaine Ceremonies, and tokens, shewed in the Quier, and gaue assent, and saide, Amen, vnto the Priest praieing at the Aultar, although they vnderstoode no parte of his praier.

Certainely, S. Paule saith,* 1.26 Quomodo dicet, Amen, ad tuam gratiarum actionem? Quandoquidem nescit quid dicas: How shal he say, Amen, and geue assent vnto thy thankes geuinge? For he knoweth not what thou saiest.* 1.27 So saith S. Augustine, Vt po∣pulus ad id, quod planè intelligit, dicat, Amen: That the people, vnto that they plainely vnderstande, may say, Amen. Likewise S. Ambrose,* 1.28 Imperitus audiens, quod non in∣telligit, nescit finem orationis, & non respondet, Amen: id est, ve••um, vt confirmetur be∣nedictio. Per hos enim impletur confirmatio precis, qui respondent. Amen: vt omnia di∣cta veri testimonio in audientium mentibus confirmentur. The vnlearned, hearing that he vnderstandeth not, knoweth not the ende of the praier, neither saith, Amen: that is to say, It is true: That the Priestes ••lissinge may be confirmed. For by them that answeare Amen, the Praier is confirmed: whereby is meante, that what so euer is spoken by the testimony of the trueth, be made good in the mindes of the hearers. Se••nge therfore, that neither Aul∣tars were erected in the Apostles time: nor the Communion Table, that then was vsed, stoode so farre of from the body of the Churche: nor the people gaue assent to that, they vnderstoode not: so many vntruthes beinge founde in M. Hardinges premisses, wée may wel, and safely stande in doubte of his Conclusion.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Origenes Con∣tra Celsum. li. 4.
• * 1.2

  Arnobius lib. 2.
• * 1.3

  Volaterranus.
• * 1.4

  Vernerius.
• * 1.5

  Durandus. li. 4.
• * 1.6

  Gerson contra Florctum li. 4.
• * 1.7

  Gregorius Nys∣sen. De Sancto Baptismate.
• * 1.8

  August. ad Bo∣nifacium Epi∣stola. 50.
• * 1.9

  August. in q. ve∣teris & noui Testam. q. 101.
• * 1.10

  Irenaeus li. 4. ca. 34.
• * 1.11

  Origen in Mat∣thae. tracta. 25.
• * 1.12

  Eusebius li. 10. ca. 4. Ex ora∣tione Panegyri∣ca in Encaeniis.
• * 1.13

  Augustinus de verbis Domini secūdum Iohan.
• * 1.14

  Sermon. 42.
• * 1.15

  Concil. Constan∣tinopol. 5. Acti. 1.
• * 1.16

  Durandus li. 5. Platyna.
• * 1.17

  Theodore••. li. 5. Ca. 18.
• * 1.18

  Nazianzen. in vita Basilij.
• * 1.19

  De Con. Dist. 2.
• * 1.20

  Sacerdotum.
• * 1.21

  Concil. Laodi∣cen. ca. 19.
• * 1.22

  Chrysos••om. in Epist. ad Ephe∣sios hom. 3.
• * 1.23

  Chrysostom. in. 2. ad. Corin. hom. 18
• * 1.24

  Clemēs stroma∣li. 7.
• * 1.25

  ••••ssarion de Sa∣cramento ••u∣charistiae.
• * 1.26

  1. Cor. 14.
• * 1.27

  Augustin. de Catechizandis rudibus. Ca. 9.
• * 1.28

  Ambrosi. in. 1. Cor. Ca. 14.