A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie.

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Title
A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie.
Author
Jewel, John, 1522-1571.
Publication
Imprinted at London :: In Fleetestreate, at the signe of the Blacke Oliphante, by Henry VVykes,
Anno. 1565.
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Subject terms
Harding, Thomas, 1516-1572. -- Answere to Maister Juelles chalenge.
Catholic Church -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
Catholic Church -- Doctrines -- Early works to 1800.
Link to this Item
http://name.umdl.umich.edu/A04474.0001.001
Cite this Item
"A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A04474.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed June 15, 2024.

Pages

The B. of Sarisburie.

Good Christian Reader, now that M. Harding hath said so much, as he is hable, it behooueth thée, as thou wilt iudge indifferently betwéene vs bothe, so to consider, and marke wel the very state, and issue of the mater, wherein the whole question lieth. The negatiue of our side, whiche so muche troubleth him, is this: That for the space of sixe hundred yeeres after Christe, it can not be founde in any old Doctour, or Councel, that euer the holy Com∣munion vvas ministred to the people in the Church, or any open assemblie in One Kinde onely, as it is novve ministred in the Churche of Rome. The issue therefore of the whole mater betwéene vs, standeth vpon the order, and vsage of the Churche.

M. Hardinge for proufe hereof, hath brought certaine particular examples of Drouthe, Infirmities, Sicknesse, Age, Ineuitable Necessities, & Impossibilities, and Weakenes of nature. Uerely, good Reader, I lookte for other proufes at M. Hardinges handes. For al these, & other like thinges I knew before. He hath al∣leged Christes Breakinge of Bread at Emaus: the allegation wherof to this pur∣pose,* 1.1 one of his owne Doctours saieth, is méere folie. He hath alleged twoo We∣men: thrée Sicke Folke in their death beddes: Personnes Excommunicate: In∣fantes: Phrenetiques: and Madde Menne.

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He allegeth Naptkins, Cheastes, Chambers, Mountaines, and Wildernesse: and for further proufe hath brought Coniectures, Gheasses, Lies, and Fables.

He allegeth abuses, that longe sithence haue beene condemned. He allegeth Scriptures, Doctours, and Councels, plainely, and directly againste him selfe.

He is learned, and hath reade muche: he is eloquent, and canne vtter muche: yea he is hable to make nothinge to appeare somewhat, and a little to séeme much.

He hath had good conference with as many, as he thought meete, either within this Realme, or without. He hath seene, what so euer hath beene written by Coclaeus, Eckius, Pigghius, Hofmeister, Michael Vaehe, Hosius, Staphylus, and suche other of that sorte. He hath had fiue whole yeeres and more, to order, and digeste his Booke. It toucheth him very neere, that any man shoulde be so bolde to say, They haue defrauded the people of halfe the Sacrament, and yet can allege no∣thinge for it. He sheweth him selfe muche offended, and therefore spareth not his familiar termes, Heretiques, Schismatiques, Aduersaries of the Churche, Goddes Enemies, and suche like. Yet hauinge so muche learninge, so muche eloquence, so much con∣ference, so muche studie, so muche leasure, beinge so affected, and so offended, yet hath he not hitherto brought one woorde, either of auncient Councel, or of olde Do∣ctour, to prooue that thinge that is denied: that is, that the Sacramente vvas euer Ministred vnto the people in one Kinde, Openly in any Congregation, or in the open order and vsage of any Churche. Yet were there Churches then erected: yet were there Priestes and people then: yet was the holy Ministration then openly vsed in forme, and order: and learned men to recorde the same. Al this not withstandinge, M. Hardinge hath hitherto founde nothinge in the open Ministration, in the Congregation and assemblie of the people, whereby to prooue his Halfe Communion. Wherfore, there is no cause yet shewed to the contrary, but M. Iuel may say nowe, as he truly before saide in his Sermon, The vvhole Communion vvas vsed throughout the vvhole Catholique Churche vnder Bothe Kindes, sixe hundred yeeres after Christes Ascension, in al Congregations, and Churches vvithout exception.

But Christe hathe leate these maters to the discretion, and determination of the Churche. By what recorde may that appeare? M. Hardinges woorde is no Charter. Or if it be true, where did the Churche euer so determine of it, within the compasse of sixe hundred yeeres? S. Augustine in this case is very reasonable:* 1.2 his woordes be these, Vbi authoritas deficit, ibi consuetudo Maiorum pro lege tenenda est, Where authoritie faileth, there the Custome of our Elders muste holde for a Lawe. But hauinge Goddes Woorde, and Christes Institution, we wante no authoritie.

The authoritie of the Church is greate: I graunte: but the causes, yt moued the Church of Rome to breake Christes Institution, as the keapinge of the VVine, Beardes, and Palsies, and suche like, are not greate: Not withstandinge M. Hardinge enlarge them muche, and cal them Importante, and vveightie causes. The two Councels of Basile and Constance, where this mater was firste concluded, as they were at the leaste fourtene hundred yéeres after Christe, and therefore not to be alleged in this case againste may assertion, so the authoritie of them bothe angeth yet in question.

For the Thomistes say, the Councel of Basile came vnlawfully togeather,* 1.3 and that therefore al their determinations were in vaine. And Pigghius saithe, the other Councel of Constance concluded againste Nature, againste the Scriptures, againste Antiquitie, and againste the Faithe of the Churche. These be the twoo Councels that M. Hardinge woulde haue vs yeelde vnto.

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VVe are bounde to heare the Churche,* 1.4 saith M. Hardinge. But much more are we bounde to heare God. This saieing of S. Cyprian is woorthy déepely to be noted, Non iun∣gitur Ecclesiae, qui ab Euangelio separatur. He hath no felowship with the Churche, that is diuided from the Gospel. And likewise writinge against certaine, that abused the Cuppe of Christe, Ministringe therein Water in stéede of Wine, he geueth this lesson to al Bishoppes and others toutchinge the Reformation of the Churche: Religioni nostrae cōgruit,* 1.5 & timori, & ipsi loco, & officio Sacerdotij nostri, custodire Tra∣ditionis Dominicae veritatem: &, quod prius apud quosdam videtur erratum, Domino mo∣nente, corrigere: vt cùm in claritate sua, & Maiestate Coelesti venire coeperit, inueniat nos tenere, quod monuit: obseruare, quod docuit: facere, quod fecit. It behoueth the Reli∣gion that we professe, and our reuerence towardes God, and the very place, and office of our Priesthoode, to keepe the trueth of the Lordes Tradition, and by the Lordes aduertisement to correcte that thinge, that by certaine hath beene amisse: that when he shal come in his glo∣rie, and Maiestie, he may finde vs to holde, that he warned vs: to keepe, that he taught vs: to doo, that he did.

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