A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie.

The B. of Sarisburie.

I vsed the Pulpite as a place of reuerence, and not of scoffinge. Onely I thought good to laie out the weakenesse of sundrie reasons alleged on your side, that the people might sée vpon howe sclender groundes your Religion standeth. And thus I did hauinge iuste occasion thereunto of the vniuste reportes moued in corners by you and others, whereby you bare the people in hande, that al our doctrine was light, and childishe, and not woorthe the hearinge. Therefore that the people hauinge taken some taste of the argumentes on bothe partes, might be the better hable to iudge of bothe, I shewed foorthe this argument of Pope Inn••∣centius, The Sunne is greater then the Moone,* 1.1 Ergo the Pope is greater then the Em∣perour: and the Elose in the Margine vpon the same: The Sunne is seuen and fiftie times greater then the Moone: Ergo, the Pope is seuen and fiftie times greater then the Emperour.* 1.2 And likewise the argument of Pope Bonifacius the eight. In princi∣pio creauit Deus Coelum & terram, non in principijs: In the beginninge, and not in sun∣drie beginninges, God made Heauen and Earth: Ergo, the Pope hath the soueraintie ouer al Kinges and Princes. He that sheweth the weakenesse of these argumentes and suche other, deserueth not therefore by and by to be called a scoffer.

Further touchinge Excommunication,* 1.3 I saide thus, If the Prieste that saithe Masse in Louaine, may communicate with the Prieste that saieth Masse in Cali∣cute, whiche is M. Hardinges greatest grounde for his Priuate Masse, then hath the Churche so farre foorthe as toucheth the Priestes, loste the whole vse of Ex∣communication. For the partie excommunicate beinge a Priest, might saye, he woulde say Masse, and so receiue the Communion, euen with the Bishop of whom he were excommunicate, whether he woulde or no. This sayinge M. Hardinge hath condemned for péeuishe, by his authoritie onely, and not by reason.

In déede the Churche of Rome, as it hath lost the whole vse of the holy Commu∣nion, so hath it also lost y^e whole vse of Excommunication. For these twoo woordes be of contrary natures, and the one of them hath his name of the loosinge of the o∣ther. In the primitiue Churche as al the Godly were fréely receiued to the holy Mysteries, so by the authoritie of the Spirite of God, the apparent wicked and vn∣godly were remoued, and that with great discretion, accordinge to the enormitie & qualitie of the faultes: as it is specially noted by Gregorius Naeocaesariensis* 1.4 in a Canon touchynge the same. The greatest offenders were vtterly excluded from the Congregation,* 1.5 as men not méete to be in the company of the godly. Others were suffred to enter into the temple,* 1.6 and to heare the Sermon, but at the begin∣ninge of the praiers they were remoued, as men not méete to praie with their bre∣therne. Others were suffred to be present at the praiers,* 1.7 but at the beginninge of the Communion were willed to departe. The reste were the godly that re∣mained stil, and hearde the Sermon, and continued in praier, and receiued the holy Mysteries altogeather.* 1.8 The order hereof is declared by Cassiodorus out of So∣crates. Stant rei, & velut in lamentationibus constituti: & cùm sacra celebratio fuerit adimpleta, Communionem non percipiunt. They stande wofully, and as it were men in lamentation, and in heauines: and when the holy celebration is ended, they receiue not the Com∣munion. It followeth, Constituto verò tempore, velut quoddam debitum exoluentes, cum populo Communionem participant, At the time appointed, as if they had dis∣charged a certaine debte, they Communicate togeather with the people. Thus the

offenders were put from the Communion, and al the reste receiued togeather.* 1.9 And therefore it is decréed by y^e Canons of y^e Apostles,* 1.10 That al Faithful that entre in∣to the Churche, and heare the Scriptures, and doo not continue out the Praiers, nor receiue the Communion, should be excommunicate, as men woorkinge the trouble and disorder of the Churche. And the people saide vnto Timotheus beinge a Bishop of the Arrians, and neuerthelesse a man of milde and gentle nature, and shunninge his companie for the one, and yet louinge him for the other: Although we Communicate not with thée, yet wée loue thée notwithstanding.

Now, if M. Hardinges principle stande for good, that the Priest sayeinge his Priuate Masse, may receiue the Communion with al others in other places that doo the like, then can no Priest be excommunicate. For notwithstanding neither any other Priest, nor any of the people wil receiue with him, yet may he say a Priuate Masse, and by M. Hardinges new diuise straight way communicate with them al.

But for better declaration of this mater, it is commonly taught in Schooles, that Priuatio praesupponit habitum, that is, that the loosinge of a thinge firste presupposeth the hauing of the same: for no man can loose that thinge, that he hath not. Therfore to say, there is Excommunication from the Sacramentes, where as is no Communion of the Sacramentes: Or that he is put from the Lordes Table, that neither is at, nor comming to the Table: Or that he is Excommuni∣cate, that is onely forbidden to heare Masse: Or that the people doth sufficiently receiue the Sacramentes by the mouthe of the Priest: Uerely this kinde of lear∣ninge in the Primitiue Churche woulde haue séemed not onely péeuish, but also fantastical and méere Frantike. Thus the Bishop of Rome (as it is saide, vseth to Excommunicate Locustes, Snakes, Caterpillers, & other like woormes: & Con∣iurers vse to Excommunicate their Diuels: as though these creatures, sauing the force of their authoritie, were otherwise méete enough to receiue the Cōmunion.

Notes

• * 1.1

  De Maioritate & obedientia Ca. solitae.
• * 1.2

  De Maior. & obedient. vnam Sanctam.
• * 1.3

  Excommuni∣cation.
• * 1.4

  Gregorius Naeo∣caesariensis.
• * 1.5

  Lugentes.
• * 1.6

  Audientes.
• * 1.7

  Precantes.
• * 1.8

  Historia tripar. lib. 9. ca. 35.
• * 1.9

  Excōmu∣nication.
• * 1.10

  Canon. Apostol. Canon. 9.