A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie.

The B. of Sarisburie.

M. Hardinge hath made a very large entrie to so smal a house. The whole que∣stion standeth onely in this one pointe, of Adoration, whiche is here very lightly past ouer in fewe woordes. Al the rest is vsed onely as a floorishe, to beginne the ga••••e. Neither doothe he any wise directly answeare, that was demaunded, that is, whether Images in olde times were set vp, to be woorshipped: but onely shew∣eth his owne fantasie, in what sorte they may be woorshipped: Wherein notwith∣standinge, he séemeth not to agrée thorowly, neither with the rest of his companie, nor with him selfe. His final Resolution is this, The Adoration, that is made in this sorte, is not Principally directed to the Image. The sense of whiche Woordes is this, The corrup∣tible creature of VVood, or Stoane may be woorshipped, although not Principally, or chiefely, as God him selfe, whiche is thereby represented. And thus he taketh an indifferent way bi∣twéene bothe: as if he would saie, An Image may be Woorshipped: and yet it may not be woorshipped. Againe, It may not be woorshipped: and yet it may be woor∣shipped. And for Confirmation hereof, he allegeth certaine Autorities forged vn∣der the names of S. Basile, and Athanasius: Notwithstandinge he know right wel, that neither of these twoo Fathers euer, either vttered suche woordes, or had cause to mooue suche mater. Onely they are alleged in that childishe Councel of Nice the Seconde, ••monge a greate number of other like lies, and Fables. Good Christian Reader, if thou be learned, consider, and weigh that Councel. And thou shalt say, I haue reported muche lesse, then thou hast founde. And the same Atha∣nasius, as he is here brought in to prooue the Adoration of Images, so els where in the same Councel he is forced to say,* 1.1 that Christe dwelleth in Reliques, and Deade mens Boanes.

As for Gregorie,* 1.2 notwithstanding he speake expressely of Images, yet he spea∣keth not one Woorde of the Adoration of Images. In Conclusion M. Hardinge beinge not hable, to allege, no not so muche as one Ancient Father for the woor∣shippinge of Images, these manifest forgeries onely excepted, yet he blusheth not to say in a brauerie, that he mighte allege a greate number moe. By suche faces, and vi••inge of emptie stoare, the simple people is ofte deceiued. But what née∣deth M. Hardinge, either to holde by these counterfeite, and forged déedes: or elsby these fonde diuises of Principal, and not Principal Adoration, thus to simper, and to season the mater bitwéene bothe? Certainely the Bishoppes in his Se∣conde Councel of Nice,* 1.3 thinke them selues hable to prooue, bothe by Scripture, and also by Ancient Autoritie, that Images ought vndoubtedly to be honoured.

For, as it is saide before, they allege these Scriptures,* 1.4 Woorship the footestoole of his feete:* 1.5 Adoure him in his holy hille: Al the ritche of the people shal woorship thy face.

Hereof they conclude thus,* 1.6 Ergo, Images must be woorshipped. And therefore Theodosius the Bishop of Mira in the same Councel alloweth it wel, and speci∣ally, for that his Archedeacon was taught the same by reuelation in a Dreame.

Therefore one of them saithe, Venerandas imagines adoro, & id perpetu•• docebo: I Adoure the reuerent Images, and wil maineteine the same, while I liue.* 1.7 An other saithe, Historias Imaginum honoro, & palam Adoro: I woorship the stories of Images, and Adoure them openly. An other saithe, Imagines perfectè adoro: I geue perfite Ador••tion vnto Images. An other saithe, Eos, qui diue••sum statuunt, auer••or, & anathema••izo. Al suche, as holde the contrary, I vtterly forsake, and holde them accursed. Briefely, the whole Councel there determineth thus, Eos, qui circa Adora••ionem Imaginum la∣borant, aut dubitant, nostra Synodus anathematizat. Al suche, as stagger, or stande in doubte, of the Adoration of Images, are accursed by this Councel.

They saye, Wee knowe, that Images are Creatures Corruptible: and therefore wee neither vse them, nor take them as Goddes. And thus they thinke them selues very wise menne, that can knowe, that Birdes, and Children be hable to knowe. Euen so the Heathens were wonte to say of their Idolles. Cicero confesseth, Io••em la∣pidem non esse Deum, That Iuppiter is a stoane, and no God. Lactantius hereof wri∣teth thus, Non ••psa, inquit, Adoramus, sed eos ad quorum Imagines facta, & quorum nominibus Consecrata sunt. The Infidel wil say, euen as M. Hardinge here saith, VVe woorship not our Images, but our Goddes, vnto whose likenesse the Images are made, and in whose names they are Consecrate. The like ••ereof we may finde in S. Augustine,* 1.8 in Athanasius, in Sozomenus, and in others: And this excuse was then, as now, thought sufficient,* 1.9

But S. Augustine saith, Very children know, that these Images h••ue eies, and s••e not: mouthes, and speake not. VVherefore then doothe the holy Ghoste so often teache vs,* 1.10 and ad∣monishe vs the same thinge in the Scriptures, as if wee knew it not? He answeareth, Quia species membrorum in eminenti collocata suggestu, cùm honorari, atque adorari coeperit a multitudine, parit in vnoquoque sordidissimum erroris affectum: vt, quoniam in illo fig∣mento non inuenit vitalem motum, credat numen occul••um:* 1.11 et effigiem viuenti Corpori similem, seductus forma, & commotus authoritate, quasi saplentium i••sti••utor••m, obse∣quentium turbarum, sine viuo aliquo habita••ote esse non putet. For that, the very shape, and proportion of a man set alofte, after it once beginneth to be Adoured, and honoured of the multitude, it breedeth in euery mā that most vile affectiō of erroure, that although he finde there no natural moouinge, or token of life, yet he thinketh some God, or godly thinge is within it: And so beinge deceiued, partely by the forme, that he seeth▪ and partely by the Author••tie, and credite of the Authours, ••nd makers of it, whom they take to be wise, and partly also by the ex∣ample, and deuotion of the people, whom they see obedient to the same, he thinketh, that the Image, beinge so like to a liuinge bodie, cannot be without some liuinge thinge vnderneathe it. Againe he saithe, Cùm in his ••edibus lo••an••ur, honorabili sublimitate,* 1.12 vt a precantibus, atque immolantibus attendantur, ipsa similitudine animatorum membrorum, atque sen∣suum, quamuis sensu, & anima careant, afficiunt infirmos animos, vt viuere, atque spirare videantur. After that Images be once set vp in these places in honourable highthe, that they, that praie, or sacrifice, may looke vpon them, althoughe they haue neither sense, not soule, yet they so strike, and amase the weake mindes of the people, euen with the very proportion of li∣uinge members, and senses, that they seeme to haue life, and to drawe breathe.* 1.13 Againe he saithe, Quis adorat, vel orat intuens Simulachrū, qui non sic afficitur, vt ab eo se exaudiri putet, ac ab eo sibi praestari, quod desiderat, speret? Who euer Adou••reth▪ or maketh his praier beholdinge an Image, but he is so mooued in his minde, that he thinketh, the Image hea∣••eth him, and hoapeth, it wil performe his praier?

Al these thinges the Heathens knew, and therefore wer•• wel shielded with

M. Hardinges excuse,* 1.14 and yet notwithstandinge were Idolaters: and, as the pro∣phet Hieremie reporteth,* 1.15 They saide to a Blocke, Pater meus es tu: Thou art my Father: and to a Stone, Tu me genuisti, Thou arte my Maker, thou haste begotten me. And there∣fore were they the children of Goddes anger: for that they turned the trueth of God into a Lie, and honoured the Creature aboue the Creatoure,* 1.16 whiche is God blissed for euer.

And, the more to encourrage the simple in these errours, they haue diuised many fained Miracles. The deade Images haue been forced to sweate, to weepe, to laughe, and to shifte them selues from place, to place. And as emonge the Pai∣nimes, and infidels, the Image of Iuppiter was hable to say alowde, Let al Chri∣stians be bannisshed the Countrie:* 1.17 And as the Image of Iuno, beinge demaunded, whe∣ther she woulde goe to Rome, or no, was hable to geue a courteous becke, & gently to saye, Volo, I am contente: Euen so emonge Christians, Images haue béen hable to speake,* 1.18 what so euer their keeper, or Sextine listed. The Image of Our Lady was hable to attende her owne Candel: and other Images hable to heale al diseases. Briefely, Nicolaus Lyra saithe, In Ecclesia Dei populus saep•• decipitur a Sacerdoti∣bus fictis Miraculis Iucri causa: In the Churche of God the Priestes oftentimes deceiue the people with fained Miracles for lukers sake. Thus the worlde was borne in hande, that Images were not onely bare Images, but had also some secrete diuine power hidden within them, and therefore were woorthy to be honoured.

Here is imagined a greate difference in Adoration between Latria, and Dou∣lia. Latria is the honoure, that belongeth onely vnto God (as M. Hardinge saithe) in recog∣nisinge of the supreme Dominion. But of Doulia, whiche is the other parte, and may be Englished a Seruice, and, as they say, is dewe vnto a Creature, he thought it best, to say nothinge. Thus, by M. Hardinges distinction, wee must Honour God, & Serue Images. And therefore this reuerence, so geuen, may not be called Idolola∣tria, but Idolodulia: That is to saye, Not the Honouringe, but onely the seruinge, or o∣beieinge of Images.* 1.19 In like sorte Lyra saithe, One knee we may boow to any noble perso∣nage: but vpon bothe wee may kneele onely vnto God. And by suche a simple distinction it is thought, the whole mater is wel salued. But, what if the simple people vn∣derstande no Greeke, and cannot so learnedly discerne Latria, from Doulia, but take the one Adoration, for the other? Uerily, as it now fareth in the Churche of Rome, they vse them bothe vniuersally without difference.

Therefore this distinction, thus applied, seemeth muche like to that, the Phisitians wife sometime said, Peper is colde in woorkinge, and hoate in operation. For M. Hardinges distinction standeth not in difference of mater, but onely in woordes. Cicero saithe,* 1.20 Bonum esse negas: Praepositum dicis. An minuis hoc pacto auaritiam? Thou wilt not haue worldly wealth called Bonum, but onely Praepositum. But doest thou hereby any thinge abate auarice? Euen so may wee say to M. Hardinge: yee wil not haue your Adoration of Images called Latria, but onely Doulia. But Sir, doo you by this distinction, any thinge abate Idolatrie?

Certainely, Constantius the Bishop of Constantia, in the Seconde Nicene Councel saithe,* 1.21 Ego Imaginibus cultum honoris exhibebo eundē, qui debetur Viuificae Trini••ati: Et, si quis nolit idem facere, eum anathema••izo, vt Marcionē, & Manichaeum. I for my parte y••lde vnto Images the same Adoration of honoure, that is dewe to the Holy Trinitie: And, if any man refuse to doo the same, I accurse him, as I doo the Heretiques Marcion, and Manichee. And in the same Councel it is determined thus, Non sunt D••ae Adorationes, sed vna Adora••io,* 1.22 Imaginis, & Primi exemplaris, cuius est Imago. There are not twoo sortes of Adoration (the one called Latria, the other Doul••a, as M. Hardinge diuideth them) but one onely Adoration, bothe of the Image, and also of the Samplar, whereof the Image is.

Likewise Thomas Aquine, after longe debatinge of the mater, thus at laste ru∣leth ouer the case:* 1.23 The Image, and the thinge thereby represented, must be woorshipped bothe with one kinde of Adoration: And, for example ••e saith, The Crosse, or Image of Christe must be honoured with L••tria, (that is▪ with godly honour) bicause Christe him selfe is so honoured: And the Image of our Lady must be honoured with Doulia, bicause that honour, (as he saithe) is Dewe vnto our Lady. This determination of Thomas is re∣prooued by Holcot: And his reason is this:* 1.24 Latria, or Godly honour, is dewe onely vn∣to God: But the Image of God is not God: Therefore Latria, or Godly honour is not dewe vnto an Image. Otherwise (saith he) the Creatoure, and the Creature shoulde bothe be A∣doured with one honoure. And notwithstandinge Henricus de Gandauo, Petrus de A∣quisa, Iohannes de Guiuerra, Durandus, and other Schoole Doctours agree with Holcot, and their iudgement seeme very agreeable vnto Reason, Yet he that wrote For∣talitium Fidel, saithe,* 1.25 The Common opinion, and practise of the Churche holdeth the contrarie. And one Iacobus Payua, a greate stickler of that side, doubt••th not to write thus: Non tamen inficiamur, hac nos Latriae Adoratione Christi praecla••issimam Crucem colere, & venerari: Yet wee denie not, but wee doo woorship, and Adoure the moste noble Crosse of Christe, euen with this Godly honoure, that wee calle Latria. And, where as M. Hardinge referreth the whole Adoration vnto the thinge represented by the Image▪ One Iacobus Nanclantus, the Bishop of Cl••gium in Italy telleth him, that the Image, and the thinge represented by the Image, must bothe be worship∣ped with one kinde of Adoration. His woordes be these, Ergo non solum fa••endum est, Fideles in Ecclesia Adorare coram Imagine, vt nonnulli ad cau••elam forte loquuntur, sed & Adorare Imaginem, sine quo volueris scrupulo, quin & eo illam venerari cultu, quo & prototypon eius. Propter quod, si illud habet A do••ari Lat••ia, & illa habet Adorari La∣••••ia: Therefore wee must confesse, y^t the faith••ul people in the Churche dooth not onely worsh••p before the Image, as some men vse to speake for more assurance, but that they woorship the Image it selfe, and that without any manner scruple of conscience, what so euer. Yea, and further they woorship the Image with the same honoure, wherewith they woorship the thinge represented. As if the thinge represented by the Image he woorshipped with godly honoure, then must the Image it selfe likewise be woorshipped with godly honour. If M. Hardinge wil say, these errours be olde, & longe sithence controlled by his Church of Rome, it may please him to vnderstande, y^t Nanclantus was printed in Uenece, Anno. 1557. and that Payua was printed in ••oleine, Anno. 1564. bothe wel allowed without controlment.

The case standinge thus, what then auaileth M. Hardinges distinction of Latria and Doulia?* 1.26 I feare me, wee may say of him, and his felowes, as S. Au∣gustine sometime saide of the Heathens: Nemo mihi dica••, Non est Numen: non est Deus. V••inam ipsi sic norint, quomodo nouimus nos. Sed quid habeant, pro qua re ha∣beant, quid ibi faciant, Ara testatur. Let noman say vnto mee, It is no Diuine Power: it is no God. I woulde to God, they so knewit, as wee know it. But what they haue, and in what sorte they haue it, and what they doo aboute it, the Aultar beareth witnesse.

Marcellina the Heretique is much reprooued by S. Augustine,* 1.27 for that, emonge other Images, she offered vp incense to the Image of Christe. And Origen saith, Fieri non potest, vt quis & Deum, & Simulachrum colat. It is not possible, that any man may woorship God, and an Image bothe togeather. And Polydorus Uerg••lius a man of late yéeres, vttering the greate abuse, that he saw in the Churche in his time, wri∣teth thus: Nunc de Simulach••orum cul••u agamus: quem non modò nostrae Religionis expertes, sed, teste Hieronymo, omnes ferè Veteres Sancti Patres damnabant, ob metū I∣dololatriae. Now let vs intreate of the woorshippinge of Images: whiche not onely the Hea∣thens, that were voide of our Religion, but also, as S. Hierome saithe, al the Olde Godly Fathers condemned, for feare of Idolatrie.

And of the abuse, and disorder of the Churche herein in his time, he writeth thus: Eò insaniae deuentum est, vt haec pars Pie••atis parùm differat ab Impietate. The worlde is come to suche oultrage,* 1.28 and meere madnesse herein, that this parte of Holinesse differeth now very litle from open Wickednesse. To this passe the Churche of God was brought by M. Hardinges distinction, of Latria, and Doulia.

The best remedie in this behalfe, and moste agreeable with Gods Woorde, is, vtterly to abolishe the cause of the il. So the godly Kinge Ezechias tooke downe, and brake in peeces the Brasen Serpente, Notwithstandinge Moses him selfe, by Goddes special Commaundement had erected it: notwithstandinge it were an ex∣presse Figure of Christe hanginge vpon the Crosse: notwithstandinge it had con∣tinued so many yéeres: notwithstandinge God by it had wrought so many Mira∣cles. So the godly Bishoppe Epiphanius rente in sunder the Image of Christe Painted in a Clothe,* 1.29 and saide, It was against Gods Commaundement, a thinge Superstitious, and vnmeete for the Churche, and people of God: notwithstanding it were the Image of Christe. So the godly Emperour Theodosius made his Pro∣clamation ouer al his Dominions in this sorte, Signum Seruatoris nostri, quocun{que} loco reperitur, tolli iubemus. Wee streitely commaunde, that the Image of our Saueoure be taken downe, in what place so euer it shal be founde: notwithstandinge it were the I∣mage of our Saueour. So it is Decreed in the late Councel of Mens, that, when Images happen to be abused by the people, they be either notably altered, or vt∣terly abolished.* 1.30 Neither dooth God throughout al his holy Scriptures anywhere condemne Image breakers: but expressely, & euerywhere he condemneth Image woorshippers, and Imagemakers. God saithe, They are snares to catche the ignorant: He knoweth the inclination of the harte of man.* 1.31 And therefore he saith,* 1.32 Accursed be he, that leadeth the blinde out of his way: And,* 1.33 accursed be he, that laieth a stumblinge blocke to ouerthrow the blinde.

FINIS.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Concil. Nicen. 2. Actio. 3.
• * 1.2

  Gregorius lib. 7. Epist. 53.
• * 1.3

  Ex libro Caroli Magni.
• * 1.4

  Psalm. 98.
• * 1.5

  Psalm. 47.
• * 1.6

  Psalm. 44.
• * 1.7

  Concil. Nicen. 2. Action. 2.
• * 1.8

  Augustin. in Psalm 113.
• * 1.9

  Athanasi. con∣tra Gentes.
• * 1.10

  Sozomen. li. 7. ca. 15. de Sophis•••• Olympio.
• * 1.11

  Augustin. in Psalm. 113.
• * 1.12

  Augustinus 〈◊〉〈◊〉epist. 49.
• * 1.13

  Augustinus in Psalm. 13.
• * 1.14

  La••ria, Do••lia.
• * 1.15

  Hieremi. 2••
• * 1.16

  Rom••n. 1.
• * 1.17

  Eusebius li 8. De Theote••no.
• * 1.18

  Concil. Nicen. 2. Actio. 5. Nycolaus Lyra ••n 14. ca. Daniel.
• * 1.19

  N••col. Lyra in Hester. 3. ca.
• * 1.20

  Cicero De Fi∣nib. 4.
• * 1.21

  In libro Caroli Magni.
• * 1.22

  Concil. Nicen. 2. Actio. 4.
• * 1.23

  Thomas in. 3. Senten. dist. 2••
• * 1.24

  Holcot in libru•• Sapient. lect. 158.
• * 1.25

  Author For••a∣li••ij: Licet ho•• rationabiliter dictum videa∣tur, tamen Com¦munis opinio tenet oppositum. lacobus Payu•••• li. 9. Iacobus Nāclā∣tus in epist. ad Roman. cap. 1.
• * 1.26

  Augustin. De Verbis Domi. Secundum Ma••∣thae. Sermo. 6.
• * 1.27

  August. ad Quoduul••deum. Origen. contr•• Celsum li. 4. Polyd Vergil. De Inuentorib. rer. lib. 6. ca. 13.
• * 1.28

  ••bidem.
• * 1.29

  ••piphanius ad Iohannem epis. Hierosolymitan. Petrus Crinitus li. 9. ca. 9.
• * 1.30

  Concil. Mog••n∣••inen. De Imag.
• * 1.31

  Sapientiae. 14.
• * 1.32

  Deuteron. 27.
• * 1.33

  Leuiti. 19.