A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie.

The B. of Sarisburie.

These three Fathers Nazianzene, Origen, and Oecumenius, cost M. Harding no greate studie. He founde them woorde by woorde, alleged before in Doctor Steeuen Gardiner. Neither doo they any wise further his purpose, touching•• either his outwarde Formes, and Accidentes: or els his Priuie, and Secrete Pre∣sence. But he knoweth, that the very names of Olde Doctours, although they saye nothinge, may suffice to leade the ignorant.

The meaninge of these three Fathers was onely to shewe the difference,* 1.1 that is bitwéene the thrée states, The Iewes vnder the Lawe, The Christians in the Gospel, and the Sainctes in the life to come. Al whiche thrée states are one of∣springe of Abraham, one People, one Churche, one Enheritance: al callinge vpon, and glorifieinge the name of God, and of his Sonne Iesus Christe. Therefore S. Augustine saithe,* 1.2 The people of Israel vnder the Lawe were very Christians: and the Christians in the Gospel are very Israelites. Al be it, he addeth, Non oportet illud no∣men in consuetudine Sermonis retinere: In common vse of speache we may not continewe that name. Againe he saith,* 1.3 Iudaei nondum nomine, sed re ipsa erant Christiani. The Iewes although not in name, yet in deede were very Christians, Likewise Eusebius saith, Al the Iewes, from Abraham vpwarde vntil Adam, were in deede Christian men: al be it they were not named so.* 1.4 So likewise Epiphanius saithe, The Faithe of Christe was euer from the beginninge of the worlde.

The Substance of these three states is one: the difference standeth onely in qualitie, or proportion of more, or lesse. The Iewes sawe Christe in the Lawe: The Christians sée Christ in the Gospel: The Blissed Sainctes sée Christe in Hea∣uen. The Iewes sawe Christe darkely,* 1.5 as in a shadowe: The Christians sée Christe, as in an Image liuely purtraide: The holie Sainctes sée Christe in Hea∣uen expressely, and perfitely without Image or Shadowe, face to face. Christe, that is séene, is al one: the difference is onely in the seers: of whome some see in a darke Shadowe: some in a perfite Image: and some in the cleare Lighte. And yet none of them without the sight of Christe. And as the Iewes were in a Sha∣dowe, in comparison of that Brightnes of Lighte, that we sée nowe: euen so are wée likewise in a Shadowe, in comparison of that Light, that we hope for, and is to come. And thus Origen, Nazianzene, Oecumen••us, and the reste of the Ancient Fathers meante, and none otherwise. Therefore M. Hardinge may consider better, how muche these Authorities make for him, to prooue his Secrete Fleashely Presence in the Sacrament.

Chrysostome compareth the state of the Iewes,* 1.6 vnto a Candel: and the state of the Christians, to the Brightnes of the Sunne. Againe, he likeneth the Iewes to the firste draught, or platte of an Image, set out onely in bare lines: and the Christians vnto the same Image liuely filled vp with al due proportion,* 1.7 and resemblance, and furniture of Colours. Irenaeus compareth the Iewes to the sowinge of the seede: and the Christians to the haruest, and reapinge of the Corne. To Conclude, S. Paule compareth the Iewes to a Childe, and the Chri∣stians to a ful perfite man.* 1.8

By al these Examples it appeareth, that the Substance is one, & the difference standeth onely in More, and Lesse.* 1.9 The Iewes had the same light, although not in like quantitie: The same Image,* 1.10 although not with like furniture: The same Corne, although not growen to like ripenes: Thei were the same person, although not in like perfection of age. Thus muche, to open the difference bitwéene the Lawe, and the Gospel: whiche was one parte of these Fathers meaninge.

The like difference wée may finde bitweene the state of the Gospel, and the state of the life, that is to come. For although the thinges be one, yet the fruition of the same is not one: and in respecte of that abundance of Glorie, that wée looke for, al that we haue, and enioie already, is but a Figure. And therefore S. Augu∣stine saithe,* 1.11 Cùm Christus tradiderit Regnum D••o, & Patri, in illa perspicua contem∣platione incommutabilis Veritatis, nullis Mysterijs Corporalibus indigebimus. VVhen Christe shal haue deliuered the Kingedome to God, and the Father, in that plaine contempla∣tion of the vnchangeable Truethe, we shal neede no Bodily Mysteries.

Likewise he wrtteth of the Sacrament of Baptisme: Vngimur modò in Sacra∣mento:

& Sacramento ipso praefiguratur quiddam,* 1.12 quod futuri sumus: & illud, nescio quid, futurum ineffabile desiderate debemus, & in Sacramenio gemere: vt in ••a re gau∣deamus, quae Sacramento praemonstratur. VVe are nowe anointed in a Sacrament: and in the Sacrament it selfe there is a thinge foresignified, that we shalbe: and the same vnspea∣keable thinge, that is to come, wee ought to desire, and to mourne for it in the Sacrament, that we may reioice in that thinge, that is signified in the Sacrament.

So S. Basile,* 1.13 Etiam nunc iustus bibit Aquam illam viuentem: verùm eam post∣hac largi••s bibet, vbi cooptatus fuerit in Ciuitatem Dei. Nunc quidem bibit in specu∣lo, & in aenigmate,* 1.14 per breuem comprehensionem Obseruationum Diuinarum. Tunc au∣tem flumen vniuersum recipiet: Euen nowe the iuste man drinketh that Liuinge VVater. But after this, when he shalbe receiued into the Cittie of God, he shal drinke it more abun∣dantly. Now he drinketh as in a Seeingeglasse, or in a riddle, by a smal vnderstandinge of heauenly thinges: but then he shal swallow•• ••owne the whole streame.

In this sense Nazianzene saithe,* 1.15 The Ecclesiastical policie of the Iewes, compared with the Gospel of Christe, is a Figure of a Figure. In this sense Origen saithe,* 1.16 The comminge of Christe in the Fleashe, and the offeringe of him selfe vpon the Crosse, (the force of whiche oblation continueth stil) and al, that our Nature can conceiue of the same, is but an Image, in comparison of those Spiritual thinges, that we looke for. And here vn∣derstande thou, good Reader, that Origen in this place speaketh of Christes com∣minge, and appearinge in the Fleashe: & not one woorde of the Sacrament. For thus he saithe, Veniat ad Imaginem rerum, & videat aduentum Christi in Carne factū: Let him come to the Image of thinges, and see Christes comminge in the Fleashe. This I∣mage Oecumenius very wel expoundeth, Veritatem rerum, that is, The truethe, and performance of thinges,* 1.17 that were promised vnder a shadowe to the Iewes. In like sorte Chrysostome expoundeth the same woordes:* 1.18 Lex habuit vmbram futurorum bono∣rum, non ipsam imaginem rerum: hoc est, non ipsam Veritatem. The Lawe had a Sha∣dowe of good thinges to come, but not the Image of the thinges, that is to say, not the trueth it selfe. He calleth the Gospel the trueth it selfe, not in respecte of Christes Secrete Beinge in the Sacrament, vnto which fantasie M. Harding driueth al this longe talke, but onely in respecte of Christes Incarnation, as it is plaine by that imme∣diatly foloweth: Donec enim quis velut in pictura circunducat colores, Vmbra quae∣dam est:* 1.19 cùm verò flores ipsos colorum induxerit, & imposuerit, tunc Imago efficitur. A picture, vntil the Painter lay on his colours, is but a Shadowe: but the freashe colours being laide on, it is an Image. So S. Paule calleth the Law the Shadowe, and Christe the Bodie. And in this consideration Athanasius saith,* 1.20 Euangelium est Dei Verbi Domini Iesu Christi Praesentia, ad humani generis salutem Incarnati. The Gospel is the Presence of our Lorde Iesus Christe, whiche is the Woorde of God, Incarnate vnto the Saluation of Man∣kinde. And therefore S. Augustine saithe, Nostra Sacramenta dant Salutem: Iudaeorum Sacramenta promittebant Saluatorē: Non quòd iam acceperimus vitam aeternā, sed quòd iam venerit Christus, qui per Prophetas pronuntiabatur. Our Sacramentes doo geue Sa∣uation: The Sacramentes of the Iewes promised a Saueour. I speake not this, for that we haue already atteined Euerlastinge life, but for that Christe is already come, that was pronounced by the Prophetes.

Out of these Fathers woordes M. Hardinge reasoneth in this wise: The Brightnes of the Gospel is but a Figure, in Comparison of that Brightnes, that is to come: Ergo, Christes Bodie is secretely hidden vnder the outwarde Formes, and Accidentes of the Sacrament.

Howe be it, it maie soone appeare vnto the discrete, and indifferent Reader, that in al these woordes there is no manner mention, neither of Secresie, nor of Pre∣sence, nor of Absence, nor of Formes, nor of Elementes, nor of Accidentes, nor, in expresse woordes, of any Sacramente. Nazianzene, notwithstandinge he mai•• seeme to touche the Sacrament of Christes Bodie, yet in deede he speaketh onely

of the Spiritual Foode of the knowledge of God, and not of the Sacrament: as it is plaine both by the place it self, and also by the woordes, that immediatly folowe after. The woordes, that went before, are these: Christus bibet nobiscum Nouum Vinum in Regno Patris. Christe wil drincke with vs Newe Wine in the Kingdome of his Father. The woordes,* 1.21 that folowe, are these: Quis est hic porus, & quae est haec oble∣ctatio? Nostra quidem, Discere: illius verò, Docere. Doctrina enim etiam docenti ali∣menti instar est. What is this Drinke, and what is this Pleasure? Of our parte, it is to Learne: of Christes parte, it is to Teache. For Doctrine euen vnto him, that teacheth, is a kinde of meate.

It is very muche for M. Harding, thus to conclude his imaginations of the Sacra∣ment, by these Fathers, that speake not one woorde of the Sacramēt. Touching y^t, is here alleged of Secrete, and Priuie Beinge, the Catholique Fathers doo con∣fesse that Christe is in the Sacramentes of the New Testament, as he was in the Sacramentes of the Olde.* 1.22 So S. Augustine saith, Quicunque in Manna Christum intellexerunt, eundem, quem nos, Cibum Spiritualem manducauerunt: As many, as in Manna vnderstoode Christe, fedde of the same Spiritual Breade, that we feede of. Againe he saith,* 1.23 Videte ergo, Fide manente, Signa variata. Ibi Petra Christus: Nobis Christus, quod in Altari Dei ponitur: Beholde, the Faith standinge one, the Signes, or Sacramentes are changed. There the Rocke was Christe: Vnto vs that thinge is Christe, that is laide vpon the Aultar. As Christe is nowe here: so was Christe then there. And as Christe is nowe in the Breade: so was Christe then in the Rocke: and none otherwise. But what canne be so plaine, as that Nazianzene him self writeth, whome M. Hardinge hath chosen specially for his Authour?* 1.24 These be his woordes: Pellent me ab Altaribus. At ego noui aliud Altare, cuius ea omnia, quae nunc videntur, exempla∣ria tantùm sunt: non manu, aut ascia elaboratum: Mentis opus est, & Contemplationis ascensus. Ibi astabo, & acceptabilia offeram, Sacrificium, Oblationem, & Holocausta: quae tantò praestantiora sunt, quàm ea, quae nunc aguntur, quantò Veritas potior est, quàm Vmbra. They wil driue me from the Aultars, or Communion Tables. But I knowe an other Aultar, whereof al the thinges, that are nowe seene, are but Samplars: not wrought by hande, or instrument. It is the worke of the minde, and the Eleuation of the harte. There wil I stande, and offer vp acceptable Sacrifices: Whiche so farre exceede the Sacrifices, that are made here, as the Trueth exceedeth a Shadowe.

Notes

• * 1.1

  The lavve and the Gospel.
• * 1.2

  Augustin. ad A∣sellicū Epist. 200.
• * 1.3

  Augustin. cōtra 2. Epist. Pela∣gian. li. 3. ca. 4.
• * 1.4

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• * 1.5

  Epiphan. li. 1. c. 1. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• * 1.6

  Chrysostom. in varijs locis in Mathae. hom. 10.
• * 1.7

  Chrysost. in di∣ctu•• Apostoli, Patres nostri omnes, &c.
• * 1.8

  Irenaeus li. 4. ca. 42.
• * 1.9

  Calat. 4.
• * 1.10

  1. Corinth. 13.
• * 1.11

  Augustin. contra Faustum lib. 12. ca. 20.
• * 1.12

  Augustin. in Psalm. 26.
• * 1.13

  Basilius in Psal. 45.
• * 1.14

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• * 1.15

  Gregori. Nazi∣anzen. in S. Pas∣cha Oratio. 4.
• * 1.16

  Origen. in Psal. 38. Homil. 2.
• * 1.17

  Oecumenius ad Hebraeos. ca. 10.
• * 1.18

  Chrysost. ad He∣braeos. Ca. 10.
• * 1.19

  Chrysost. ad He∣braeos. Ca. 10. Coloss. 2.
• * 1.20

  Athanasius De Communi essen. P. Fi. & Spir. S. Augustin in Psalm. 73.
• * 1.21

  〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• * 1.22

  Augustin. De v∣tilitate Poeni∣tentiae.
• * 1.23

  Augustin. in Io∣han. tract. 45.
• * 1.24

  Nazianzen. in Oration. Cum postea, quae con∣tra Maximum▪ &c.