A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie.

The B. of Sarisburie.

Ambroses Bookes be extant, and knowen. Emonge them al, these woordes are not founde. Gratian the reporter of them, either of purpose, or for wante of discretion, as a man liuinge in a very barbarous, and corrupte season, allegeth of∣ten one Doctoure for an other: the Greeke, for the Latine: the Newe, for the Olde: as maie soone appeare to the learned Reader. This writer, whome M. Hardinge woulde so faine haue to passe by the name of Ambrose, in this very place, purpose∣ly depraueth the Woordes of Christe, alleginge that for Scripture, that is not to be founde so written in al the Scriptures. Whiche is not the manner of S. Am∣ses dealinge.

But for contentation of the Reader, to answeare that thinge, that séemeth worthy of no answeare, we must vnderstande, that the Breade, the Wine, & the Water, of their owne Nature, without further Consideration, are nothinge els but vsual, and simple creatures.* 1.1 And therefore S. Augustine geueth this general rule tou∣chinge the same, In Sacramentes we must consider, not what they be of them self, but what they Signifie. So S. Ambrose writeth of the Water of Baptisme: Quid vidisti? Aquas vtique: sed nō solas. Apostolus docuit, non ea cōtemplanda, quae videntur, sed quae non videntur. VVhat sawest thou (in thy Baptisme) VVater no doubte: but not onely VVa∣ter. The Apostle hath taught vs, to beholde, not the thinges, that be seene, but the thinges, that be not seene.* 1.2 Otherwise touchinge the very Substance of the Breade, and the Wine, he saith, Sunt, quae erant: They be the same thinges, that they were. And imme∣diatly before, he calleth the Sacrament touchinge the Breade, & the Wine, whiche are the material partes thereof,* 1.3 a Common, and a Knowen Creature.

Yet neuerthelesse, touchinge the effecte of the Sacrament, we consider not the corruptible Natures, or outwarde Elementes, but directe our Faith onely to the Bodie, and Bloude of Christe. S. Ambrose him self leadeth vs thus to saie, Ante Benedictionem Verborum Coelestium alia species nominatur:* 1.4 post Consecrationē Corpus Christi Significatur. Before the Blissinge of the Heauenly VVoordes, it is called an other kinde: but after the Consecration, the Bodie of Christe is Signified.

But M. Hardinge wil replie, This Ambrose saith, Figura Panis, & Vini videtur: The Figure of Breade, and VVine is seene: Therefore we must needes confesse, there are Accidentes without a Subiecte. If any Olde Writer, Greeke, or Latine: learned, or vnlearned, euer vsed this Woorde, Figura, in this sense, to wite, to si∣gnifie a Shewe alone without any Substance, then maie M. Hardinge seeme to saie somewhat. If neuer any writer vsed it so, then haue we good cause, to doubte his Conclusion. Uerily, to leaue other olde writers of al sortes, S. Ambrose him self saith, Christus apparet in Figura Humana. Christe appeareth in the Forme, or Figure of a Man.* 1.5 And S. Paule saith to like purpose, Formam Serui accepit: Christe tooke vpon him the Forme of a Seruant. I thinke, M. Hardinge wil not warrant vs vpon the force of these woordes,* 1.6 that Christe had onely the Shape, and Shewe, and not the very Substance, and Nature of a Mannes Bodie. For in so saieinge, he shoulde seeme openly to fauoure the Olde condēned Heresie of the Manichees. In saieinge other∣wise, this woorde, Figura, cannot further his purpose.

But S. Ambrose saith, Nihil aliud credendum: VVe must beleue, there is nothinge els. Therefore, saith M. Hardinge, There is no Breade. I maruel, he hath no further in∣sight, nor better skil in his owne Argumentes. For here he concludeth a plaine ••ontradictiō against him self. For if there be nothinge els, but the Bodie of Christ,

and we must also beleeue the same, then is there neither Forme, nor Figure, nor Weight, nor Sauoure there: whiche is contrary to M. Hardinges owne first posi∣tion: and yet by these woo••des wée must needes beleue it. The meaninge is, as it is before saide, that, accordinge to the Doctrine of S. Augustine, in al Sacramentes we sequester our mindes vtterly from the Sensible Creatures, and with our Faith beholde onely the thinges, that thereby are represented.

For answeare to the other two places of S. Ambrose here alleged, touchinge the changinge of Natures, and makinge of Christes Bodie, it maie please thee, gentle Reader, to remember that, y^t is answeared before in the Seconde Diuision hereof, vnto the Woordes of S. Cyprian. I trowe M. Hardinge wil not say, that the Changinge of any thinge is streight way the Corruption of the same. Origen saithe,* 1.7 Si mutabuntur Coeli, vtique non perit, quod mutatur. Al be it the Heauens shal be Changed, yet the thinge, that is Changed, is not therefore vtterly abolished, and put away. The question betweene vs is not, whether the Breade be the Bodie of Christe, or no: but whether in plaine, and simple manner of speache it be Fleashely, and Re∣ally the Bodie of Christe.* 1.8 S. Augustine saithe, Secundum Quendam Modum Sa∣cramentum Corporis Christi, Corpus Christi est. After a Certaine Manner (of speach) the Sacrament of Christes Bodie, is the Bodie of Christe. And S. Ambrose him selfe herein séemeth wel, and sufficiently to open his owne meaninge. For thus he writeth, as is before alleged:* 1.9 Post Consecrationem Corupus Christi Significatur: post Conse∣crationem sanguis Christi Nuncupatur: In Typum Sanguinis Christi, nos Calicem San∣guinis Mysticum percipimus: Carnem, & Sanguinem, quae pro nobis oblata sunt, Signi∣ficamus: Similitudinem pretiosi Sanguinis bibis: Est Figura Corporis, & Sanguinis Do∣mini: * 1.10 In Similitudinem accipis Sacramentum. After Consecration, the Bodie of Christe is Signified: After Consecration, it is Called the Bloude of Christe: We receiue the Mystical Cuppe of Bloude,* 1.11 in Example of the Bloude of Christe: We Signifie the Fleashe, and Bloud of Christe, that were offered for vs: Thou drinkest the Likenes of that Pretiouse Bloude: It is a Figure of the Bodie: and Bloude of our Lorde: For a Likenes, or Resemblance (of the Bodie of Christe) thou receiuest the Sacrament. Thus many waies it seemed good to S. Ambrose, to qualifie the heate, and rigour of his other woordes.

Nowe, if M. Hardinge, as his manner is, wil cal al these, Naked Signes, and Bare Figures, let him then remember, he maketh sporte, & game at S. Ambrose, his owne Doctour▪ But the Sacramentes of Christe, notwithstandinge they be Signes, and Figures, as they be commonly called of al the Olde Fathers, yet are they not therefore Bare, and Naked. For God by them, like as also by his Holy Woorde, worketh mightily, and effectually in the hartes of the Faithful. Touch∣inge the force of Goddes woorde,* 1.12 S. Ambrose writeth thus: Vidimus, & oculis no∣stris perspeximus, & in vestigia Clauorū eius digitos nostros inseruimus. Videmur enim nobis vidisse, quem legimus, spectasse pendentem, & vulnera eius Spiritu Ecclesiae scru∣••ante tentasse. We haue seene him, and beholden him with our eies, and haue thrust our fingers into the very holes of his nayles. For we seeme to haue seene him, whome we haue read, and to haue beholden him hanginge on the Crosse, and with the feelinge Sprite of the Churche, to haue searched his Woundes.* 1.13 So saithe S. Cyprian, Cruci haeremus, & Sanguinem su∣gimus, & intra ipsa Redemptoris nostri vulnera figimus linguam. VVe cleaue to the Crosse, and sucke vp the Bloude, and thrust our tongues euen within the VVoundes of our Redeemer. And in this respecte S. Ambrose saithe, Baptismus est Mysterium, quod oculus non vidit,* 1.14 nec auris audiuit, nec in Cor hominis ascendit. Baptisme is, (not bare Water, but) a Mysterie, that the eye neuer sawe, the eare neuer hearde, nor neuer entred into the harte of Man. In respect hereof, the Element of Water seemeth nothinge. Euen so in respecte of Christes Bodie, and Bloude, that are represented, the Breade, and Wine seeme nothinge. Thus, S. Ambrose saithe, in either Sacrament the power of Consecration is greater, then the power of Nature: Thus by Consecration Na∣ture is Changed.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Augusti. contra Maximin. li. 3. Ambrosius de ijs, qui initian∣tur Mysterijs. cap. 2.
• * 1.2

  Ambrosius de Sacramentis. li. 4. cap. 4.
• * 1.3

  Ambros. de Sa∣cram. li. 4. ca. 3. Creatura Solen∣nis & nota.
• * 1.4

  Ambros. de ijs, qui initiantur Mysterijs. cap. 9.
• * 1.5

  Ambros. in Epi∣stol. ad Colossen. cap. 1.
• * 1.6

  Philippen 2.
• * 1.7

  Origen. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉, lib. ••. Ca. 6.
• * 1.8

  Augustin. Epist. 23.
• * 1.9

  Ambros. de ijs qui initiantur Mysterijs ca. 9.
• * 1.10

  Ambros. 1. Co∣rinth. 11.
• * 1.11

  Ambros. de Sa∣crā. lib. 4. Ca. 4. De Sacra. li. 4. Ca. 5.
• * 1.12

  Ambros. in Lu∣cam li. 5. Ca. 7.
• * 1.13

  Cyprian. de Coe∣na Domini.
• * 1.14

  Ambrosius de ijs qui initiantur Mysterijs. Ca. 4.