A defence of the Apologie of the Churche of Englande conteininge an answeare to a certaine booke lately set foorthe by M. Hardinge, and entituled, A confutation of &c. By Iohn Iewel Bishop of Sarisburie.

The Apologie, Cap. 5. Diuision. 1.

Further wee saye, that the Minister ought laufully, duely, and or∣derly to be preferred to that office of the Churche of God, and that no∣man hathe Power to wreaste him selfe into the Holy Ministerie at his owne pleasure. Wherefore these personnes doo vs the greatter wronge, whiche haue nothinge so common in theire mouthes, as that wee doo nothinge Orderly, and comely, but al thinges troublesomely, and without order: and that wee allowe euery man to be a Prieste, to be a Teacher, and to be an Interpreter of the Scri∣ptures.

M. Hardinge.

Ye saye, that the Minister ought laufully to be called (for so hathe your Latine) and duely and or∣derly to be preferred to that office of the Churche of God. VVhy do ye not so? VVhy is not this obser∣ued amonge you Gospellers? VVhat so euer ye meane by your Minister, and by that office,* 1.1 this are wee assured of, that in this your newe Churche, Bishops, Priestes, Deacons, Subdeacons, or any other In∣feriour Orders ye haue none.

For whereas after the Doctrine of your Newe Gospel, like the Forerenners of Antichriste, ye haue* 1.2 abandoned thexternal sacrifice, and Priesthood of the Newe Testamente, and haue not in your Secte consecrated Bishops, and therefore beinge without Priestes made with lawful laieinge on of handes, as Scripture requireth, al Holy Orders beinge geuen by Bishops onely: howe can ye saie, that any amonge you can lawfully Minister, or that ye haue any lawful Ministers at al?

This then beinge so, let me haue leaue to oppose one of these Defenders consciences. And that for the better Vnderstandinge I maye directe my woordes to a certaine person, let him be the Au∣thour of this Apologie, or bicause his name to me is vnknowen, let him be M. Iewel. For with him gladly woulde I reason in this point, the rather for acquaintance, and for that he beareth the name of a Bishop in that Churche, where my selfe had a roume. Howe saye you, Sir Minister Bi∣shop, ought the Minister to be lawfully called? ought he dewly and orderly to be preferred to that

office, or (as the Latine here hathe) promoted, or put in Auctoritie ouer the Churche? in the Apologie this Defender saithe, yea.

Howe many Bishops can you recken, whome in the Churche of Salesbury you haue succeded as wel in Doctrine, as in outwarde sittinge in that Chaire? Howe many can you tel vs of, that be∣inge your Predecessours in order before you, were of your Opinion, and taught the faitheful people of that Dioces the Doctrine, that you teache? Did Bishop Capon teache your Doctrine? did Shaxton•• did Campegius? did Bishop Audley? Briefly, did euer any Bishop of that See before you teache your Doctrine? * 1.3 It is moste certaine they did not.

If you cannot shewe your Bishoply Petigree, if you can proue no Succession, then whereby holde you? VVil you shewe vs the Letters Patentes of the Prince? VVel may they stande you in some steede before men: before God, who shal cal you to accoumpt for preswninge to take the Highest office in his Churche* 1.4 not duely called thereto, they shal serue you to no propose.

You know what Tertullian saithe of sutch as ye be:* 1.5 Edāt Origines Ecclesiarum suarum, &c. VVe saye likewise to you M. Iewel, and that we saye to you, we saye to eche one of your Companions: Tel vs the Original and firste springe of your Churche. She we vs the Register of your Bishoppes continually succedinge one an other from the beginninge, so as that firste Bishop haue some one of the Apostles, or of the Apostolike men for his Authour, and Predecessour. For by this waye the Apo∣stolike Churches shewe what reputation they be of. As the Churche of Smyrnae telleth vs of Po∣lycarpe by Iohn the Apostle placed there. The Churche of the Romaines telleth vs of Clement or∣deined by Peter.* 1.6 S. Augustine hauinge reckened vp in order the Bishoppes of Rome to An astasius Successour to Siricius, who was the Eighte and thirteth after Peter, saithe that in al that Num∣ber and rolle of Bishoppes there is not founde One, that was a Donatisie: and thereof he concludeth, Ergo, the Donatistes be not Catholikes. So after that wee haue reckened al the Bishoppes of Salisburie from Bishop Capon vpwarde, we shal come at length in respecte of Doctrine and Or∣ders to S. Augustine the Apostle of the Englishe, who was made Bishop by Gregorie, and from Gre∣gorie vpwarde to S. Peter. And in al that rewe of Bishops* 1.7 wee shal finde neuer a one that be∣leued, as M. Iewel beleueth. Ergo, your Zwinglian and Caluinian Belefe, M. Iewel, and of the rest of your felowes is not Catholike.

Therefore, to go from your Succession, whiche ye cannot proue, and to come to your Vocation, how saie you Syr? You beare your selfe as though you were Bishop of Salisburie. But howe can you proue your Vocation? By what Authoritie Vsurpe you the Administration of Doctrine and Sacra∣mentes? VVhat can you alleage for the right and Proufe of your Ministerie? who hathe called you? VVho hathe laide handes on you? By what example hathe he done it? Howe and by whom are you consecrated? VVho hathe sent you? VVho hathe committed to you th••ffice you take vpon you? Be you a Prieste, or be you not? If you be no▪ how dare you Vsurpe the name and Office of a Bishop? If you be, tel vs* 1.8 who gaue you Orders? The Institution of a Prieste, was neuer yet but in the Power of a Bishop. Bishoppes haue alwaies after the Apostles time, accordinge to the Ecclesiastical Canons, ben consecrated by* 1.9 three other Bishoppes, with the consente of the Metropolitane, and confirmation * of the Bishop of Rome.

Macarius a Prieste of Athanasius,* 1.10 (as it was laide to his Charge by his accusers) pulled Ischyras frō the Aul••ar as he was at* 1.11 Masse, ouerthrew the Holy Table brake the Chalice. The matter brought to iudgement, Athanasius and those Bishops both denied the facte and also though it were graunted, yet defended the same as wel done, because Ischyras was not a lawful Minister of the Churche. And why so? bicause he was not lawfully made Prieste, nor with Churchely laieing on of handes cōsecrated. By which example besides other pointes wee are taught, what to iudge of your pretensed Cōmunion.

Againe what saye you to Epiphanius,* 1.12 who writeth againste one Zacchaeus of his time, for that beinge but a Laye man, with wicked Presumption tooke vpon him to * handle the Holy Mysteries, and rashely to do the office of a Prieste? Hereof S. Hierome sa••the not ably: Hilarius cùm Diaconus de Ecclesia recesserit, &c. Hilary for asmutche as he went from the Churche beinge a Deacon, and is onely (as he thinketh) the multitude of the worlde, can neither consecrate the Sacramente of Thaulter beinge without Bishops and Priestes, nor deliuer Baptisme without the ••uchariste.

And whereas nowe the man is deade,* 1.13 with the man also the secte is ended, because beinge a De∣acon he coulde not consecrate any Clerke that shoulde remaine after him. And Churche is there none,* 1.14 whiche hath not a Prieste. But lettinge goe these fewe of litle regarde, that to them selues be bothe Laie and Bishoppes, listen what is to be thought of the Churche. Thus S. Hierome there. In whome leauinge other thinges I note, that if there be no Churche, where is no Prieste, VVhere is your Churche like to become,* 1.15 after that our Apostates, that nowe be fledde from vs to you, shalbe departed this Life? Therefore this beinge true, it remaineth, M. Iewel, you tel vs, whether your Vocation be Ordinarie or Extraordinarie. If it be Ordinarie, shewe vs the letters of your Orders. At least shewe vs, that you haue receiued Power to doo the Office, you presume to exercise, by due order of laieinge on of handes and Consecration.* 1.16 But Order, and Consecration you haue not. For who coulde geue that to you of al these Newe Ministers, how so euer els you cal them whiche he hath not him selfe? If it be Extraordinarie (as al that ye haue done hitherto is be∣sides al good Order) shewe vs some Signe or Miracle. If you faile in al these, why ought not you to be put awaie?

Finally what can you answeare to that,* 1.17 whiche maye be obiected to you out of S. Cyprians E∣pistle to Magnus, touchinge Nouatian? It was at those daies a question, whether Nouatian Bapti∣zed and offered, specially where as he vsed the Forme, Maner, and Ceremonies of the Churche. Cyprian denieth it. For he can not (saithe he) be compred a Bishop, who settinge at nought the Tradition of the Gospel,* 1.18 and of the Apostles, Nemini succedens à seipso ordinatus est, Succe∣dinge no man is ordeined Bishop of him selfe. For by no meanes maye one haue or holde a Churche, that is not ordeined in the Churche.

This beinge so, we doo you no wronge, as ye complaine, in tellinge you and declaringe to the VVorlde, that touchinge the exercise of your Ministerie, ye doo nothinge orderly, or comely, but al thinges troublesomely and without Order. Onlesse ye meane suche Order, and comelinesse, as Theeues obs••rue amonge them selues in the distribution of their Robberies.

Lastly,* 1.19 if ye allowe not euery man, yea and euery VVoman to be a Prieste, why driue ye not some of your felowes to recante,* 1.20 that so haue Preached? VVhy allow ye the Bookes of your Newe Euangelistes, that so haue written?

The B. of Sarisburie.

Here hath M. Hardinge taken some paines more then ordinarie. He thought, if he coulde by any coloure make the worlde beléeue, wee haue neither Bi∣shoppes, nor Priestes, nor Deacons this daie in the Churche of Englande, he might the more easily claime the whole right vnto himselfe. And in déede, if it were certaine, that the Religion, and Truthe of God passeth euermore orderly by Succession, and none otherwise, then were Succession, whereof he hath tolde vs so longe a tale, a very good substantial Argumente of the Truthe. But Christe saithe,* 1.21 In Cathedra Mosi sedent Scribae, & Pharisaei: By order of Succession, the Scribes, and Phariseis sitte in Moses Chaire. Annas, and Ca••p••as, touchinge Suc∣cession, were as wel Bishoppes, as Aaron, & Eleazar. Of Succession, S. Paule saithe to the Faithful at Ephesus:* 1.22 Scio, qu••d post discessum meum intrabunt Lupi¦rapaces. Ex Vobis ipsis exurgent viri peruersa loquentes: I knowe that after my de∣parture hence, R••ueninge Woulues shal enter, and Succede me. And out of your selues there shal (by Succession) springe vp menne speakinge peruersely. Therefore S. Hierome saithe,* 1.23 Non Sanctorum filij sunt, qui tenent loca Sanctorum: They be not alwaies the Children of Holy Menne, that (by Succession) haue the places of Holy Menne.

Notwithstandinge the Pope him selfe wil saie, as it is before alleged, In Pa∣pa si desint bona acquisita per merirum,* 1.24 sufficiunt, quae à Loci Praedecessore Praestantur: If the Pope wante good thinges gotten by his owne merites: the good thinges, whiche he hath (by Succession) of Peter his Predecessour, are sufficient. And the Glose thereupon,

Petrus fecit Papas Haeredes bouitatis suae:* 1.25 Peter made the Popes Heires of his goodnesse by Succession.* 1.26 And againe, Papa Sanctitatem recipit à Cathedra: The Pope recei∣ueth his Holinesse (by Succession) of his Chaire.

Sutche affiance sometime had the Scribes, and Phariseis in their Succession. Therefore they saide,* 1.27 VVee are the Children of Abraham: Vnto vs hath God made his promises: Arte thou greatter then our Father Abraham? As for Christe, wee knowe not, from whence he came, or what he can shewe for his Succession. And, when Christe beganne to refourme their Abuses, and Errours, they saide vnto him, By what Power dooest thou these thinges?* 1.28 And who gaue thee this Authoritie? where is thy Suc∣cession? Vpon whiche woordes Beda saithe, Intelligi volunt, Diaboli esse, quod faci••: They woulde haue the People vnderstande (for that he had no solemne Succession) that al that he did, was of the Diuel. And Cyrillus frameth their woordes in this sorte: Tu Ortus ex Iuda commissos nobis fasces vsurpas: Thou beinge of the Tribe of Juda, (and therefore hauinge no right by Succession vnto the Priesthoode) takest vpon thee the office, that is committed vnto vs. Likewise Chrysostome imagineth, the Phariseis thus to saie:* 1.29 Tu de Sacerdotali Familia natus non es: Senatus tibi hoc non coucessit: Caesar non donauit: Thou arte not of the house of Priestes: The Councel hath not graunted it thee: The Emperour hath not geeuen it thee. Thus to maineteine them selues in credite, for that they had Succession, and continuance from Aaron, and sate in Moses Chaire, they kepte Christe quite out of possession: and saide vnto him then, euen as M. Hardinge saithe nowe vnto vs: Who euer taught vs these thinges before thee? What ordinarie Succession, and Vocation haste thou? What Bishop admitted thee? Who confirmed thee? Who allowed thee?

Therefore, good Christian Reader, lette not these M. Hardinges greate woordes mutche abasshe thee. The Scribes, and Phariseis in the like cases vsed the like language longe agoe.

Touchinge the Churche of Rome, I wil saie nomore for this presente, but one∣ly, that was spoken openly by Cornelius the Bishop of Bitonto in the late Coun∣cel of Tridente:* 1.30 Vtinam non à Religione ad Superstitionem, à Fide ad Infidelitatem, à Christo ad Antichristum, velut prorsus Vnanimes declinassent: VVoulde God they were not al gonne by consente togeather, from Religion to Superstition: from Faithe to Jufi∣delitie: from Christe to Antichriste. These fewe woordes, consideringe either the speaker, or the place, where they were spoken, maye seeme sufficient. They are gonne from Faithe to Infidelitie: from Christe to Antichriste. And yet al other thinges failinge, they muste holde onely by Succession: and, onely bicause they sitte in Moses Chaire, they muste claime the possession of the whole. This is the right, and vertue of their Succession.

The woordes of Tertullian, M. Hardinge, whiche you haue here alleged, were spoken of certaine your Ancient Fathers, that had raised vp a Newe Reli∣gion of them selues, as you haue also donne, without either Woorde of God, or example of the Apostles, and Holy Fathers. And therefore he saithe, not vnto vs, but vnto you, and sutche, as you be, Edant Origines Ecclesiarum suarum: Lette them shewe foorthe the Originalles of theire Churches. Euen so wée saie vnto you, shewe vs the Originalles of your Doctrine: Shewe vs any one of the Apostles of Christe, or of the Learned Catholique Doctours of the Churche, that euer saide your Priuate Masse: Shewe one at the leaste, either Greeke, or Latine. S. Au∣gustine saithe,* 1.31 of so many Bishoppes of Rome, there coulde not one be founde, that had benne a Donatiste. Euen so in like sorte saie wée to you, of al the same Bishoppes of Rome, there cannot one be founde, that euer agreed with M. Har∣dinge in saieinge Masse. Or if there were any sutche, shewe vs his name, with other Circumstances, when, and where, and who were witnesses of the dooinge.

Shewe vs your Originalles,* 1.32 M. Hardinge: Confesse the Truthe: Deceiue vs no lenger: It is a newe Diuise: ye haue it onely of your selues: and not by Succes∣sion from the Apostles.

But wherefore telleth vs M. Hardinge this longe tale of Succession? Haue these menne their owne Succession in so safe Recorde? Who was then the Bi∣shop of Rome nexte by Succession vnto Peter? Who was the Seconde? Who the Thirde?* 1.33 Who the Fourthe? Irenaeus reckeneth them togeather in this order: Petrus, Linus, Anacletus, Clemens: Epiphanius thus, Petrus, Linus, Cletus, Clemens: Optatus thus. Petrus, Linus, Clemens, Anacletus. Clemens saithe, that he him selfe was nexte vnto Peter: And then muste the reckeninge goe thus: Petrus, Clemens, Linus, Anacletus. Hereby it is cleare, that of the foure firste Bishoppes of Rome, M. Hardinge cannot certainely telle vs, who in order Succeded other. And thus talkinge so mutche of Succession, they are not wel hable to blase their owne Succession.

I might farther saie, that Peters See Apostolike was ouer the Iewes, and not at Rome ouer the Heathene.* 1.34 For so S. Paule saithe, Mihi concreditum est E∣uangelium Praepuiij, sicut Petro Circumcisionis: Qui potens erat Petro in Apostolatu Circumcisionis, Potens erat in me inter Gentes: The Gospel of the Vncircumcision was committed vnto me, as the Gospel of the Circumcision vnto Peter: God that was mighty in Peter in the Apostleship of the Circumcision, was mighty in me emonge the Heathens. Ther∣fore if the Pope this daie wil claime onely by Peters Title, and require nomore, then Peter had, then muste he séeke his Primacie emongst the Iewes, where Pe∣ter had his Iurisdiction limited, and not at Rome emonge the Heathen Chri∣stians, emonge whome, as S. Paule saithe, he had not mutche to doo.

Where you saie, that accordinge to the Ecclesiastical Canons, euer from the Apostles time, Bishoppes haue euermore benne Consecrate by three other Bi∣shoppes, with the Confirmation of the Bishop of Rome, as if without him noman might be allowed to be a Bishop, ye shoulde not so vnaduisedly reporte so mani∣fest Vntruthe. For, I beseche you, where be these Ecclesiastical Canons? Who diuised them? Who made them? Who gaue the Pope that singulare Priuilege, that no Bishop shoulde be admitted in al the Worlde, but onely by him? I remem∣ber, your Canonistes haue saide,* 1.35 Papa potest Solo Verbo facere Episcopum: The Pope maye make a Bishop onely by his VVoorde, without any farther Consecration. And Abbate Panormitane moueth a doubte, whether the Pope by the Fulnesse of his Power, maye depriue al the Bishoppes in the Worlde at one time. But thus they saie, that care not greatly, what they saie.

Verily,* 1.36 Nilus a Gréeke Writer saithe thus, Constantinopolitanus Caesa••iensem Episcopum, alios{que} sibi subiectos ordina••: Romanus verò nec Constantinopolitanum, nec alium quenquam Metropolitanum: The Bishop of Constantinople doothe Order the Bishop of Caesaria,* 1.37 and other Bishoppes vnder him: But the Bishop of Rome doothe Or∣der neither the Bishop of Constantinople, nor any other Metropolitane. But hereof I haue spoken more at large in my Former Replie to M. Hardinge. Certainely S. Cyprian willeth,* 1.38 that Sabinus, beinge lawfully elected, and Consecrate Bishop in Spaine, should contine we Bishop stil, yea although Cornelius, beinge then Bi∣shop of Rome, would not Confirme him.

In déede, touchinge euery Metropolitanes seueral Iurisdiction, Gratianus no∣teth thus:* 1.39 Illud generaliter clarum est, qu••d si quis praeter Sententiam Metropolitani fuerit factus Episcopus, hunc magna Synodus definiuit Episcopum esse non Oportere: This is generally cleare, that if any man be made Bishop without the consente of his Me∣tropolitane, the greate Councel (of Nice) hath decreed, that sutche a one maye not be Bishop.

So likewise saithe Socrates of the Bishop of Constantinople:* 1.40 Praeter Senten∣tiam Episcopi Constantinopolitani Electio Episcopi ne fiat: VVithout the Consente of the Bishop of Constantinople let noman be chosen Bishop. Here is a right specially re∣serued to the Bishop of Constantinople,* 1.41 and to euery Metropolitane within his owne Prouince: but of the Bishop of Romes Vniuersal right of Confirmation we heare nothinge. Neither doothe M. Hardinges Countrefeite Anacletus claime al the Bishoppes through the worlde, as belonginge to his Admission, but onely a parte. These be his woordes, Omnes Episcopi, qui huius Apostolicae Sedis Or∣dinationi subiacent:* 1.42 Al the Bishoppes, that are vnder the Orderinge, or Confirmation of this Apostolike See. So likewise writeth Damasus to the Bishoppes of Illyri∣cum, Par est, omnes, qui sunt in Orbe Romano, Magistros consentire: It is meete, that al the Teachers within the Romaine Jurisdiction,* 1.43 should agree togeather.

Againe, that you saye, A Bishop hath alwaies benne Consecrate by other thrée Bishoppes, whether it be true, or no, it maye wel be called in question, as beinge of your parte hitherto very weakely affirmed. Surely Petrus de Palude, one of your owne Doctours,* 1.44 woulde haue tolde you thus: In Ecclesia Vnus Episco∣pus suff••cit ad alium Consecrandum: nec est, nisi propter Solennitatem ab Ecclesia in∣uentum, vt Tres concurrant: In the Churche One Bishop is sufficient to Consecrate an o∣ther: and it is nothinge els, but for the Solemnitie of the mater, that the Churche hath di∣uised, that Three Bishoppes shoulde ioine togeather. Likewise Ioha••••es Maior an o∣ther of your owne Doctours woulde haue saide vnto you,* 1.45 Quis Ordinauit Pe∣trum? Non dabunt Tres Ordinatores. Dico ergo, esse Constitutionem Humanam, qu••d Episcopus Ordinetur à Tribus. Paulus enim non quaesiuit Duos pro Ordinatione Titi, & Timothei: Who Ordered Peter, and made him Bishop? They cannot shewe me Three Bishoppes that ordered him. Therefore I saie, that a Bishop be Ordered by other Three Bi∣shoppes, it is an Ordinance made by Man. For Paule, when he Ordered Titus, and Ti∣motheus, he sought not aboute for other Twoo Bishoppes.

Whereas it farther pleaseth you, to calle for my Letters of Orders, and to demaunde of me, as by somme Authoritie, whether I be a Prieste, or no: what handes were laide ouer me: and by what Order I was made: I answeare you, I am a Prieste, made longe sithence, by the same Order, and Ordinance, and, I thinke, also by the same Man, and the same handes, that you, M. Hardinge, were made Prieste by, in the late time of that moste Vertuous Prince Kinge Edward•• the Sixthe. Therefore ye cannot wel doubte of my Priesthoode, without like doubtinge of your owne.

Farther, as if ye were my Metropolitane, ye demaunde of me, whether I be a Bishoppe, or no. I answeare you, I am a Bishop, and that by the Frée and ac∣customed Canonical Election of the whole Chapter of Sarisburie, assembled so∣lemnely togeather for that purpose. Of whiche companie you, M. Hardinge, were then One, &, as I was enfourmed, beinge presente there in your owne personne emongest your Brethren, gaue free, and open consente vnto the Election. If you deite this, take heede, your owne breathe blowe not against you.

As for the impertinente tales of Ischyras, and Zacchaeus, they touche vs nothinge. They were none of ours: We knowe them not. Our Bishoppes are made in Fourme, and Order, as they haue benne euer, by Frée Election of the Chapter: by Consecration of the Archebishop, and other Three Bishoppes: and by the Admission of the Prince. And in this sorte, not longe sithence, the Pope him selfe was admitted: and,* 1.46 as Platina saithe, without the Emperours let∣ters Patentes was no Pope: as hereafter it shalbe shewed more at large.

Therefore wée neither haue Bishoppes without Churche, nor Churche without Bishoppes. Neither doothe the Churche of Englande this daie depend••

of them,* 1.47 whome you so often calle Apostates, as if our Churche were no Churche without them. They are no Apostates, M. Hardinge: That is rather your owne name, and of good righte belongeth vnto you. They are for a greate parte learned, and graue, and Godly menne, and are mutche ashamed to see your folies. Not∣withstandinge, if there were not one, neither of them, nor of vs leafte aliue, yet woulde not therefore the whole Churche of Englande fice to Louai••e. Tertul∣lian saithe, Nonne & Laici Sacerdotes sumus? Scriptum est, Regnum quoque, & Sa∣cerdotes Deo,* 1.48 & Patri suo nos fecit. Differentiam inter Ordinem, & Plebem constituit Ecclesiae Authoritas, & honor per Ordinis Consessum Sanctificatus à Deo. Vbi Eccle∣siastici Ordinis non est Consessus, & Offert, & T••••g•••• Sacerdos, qui est ibi solus. Sed & vbi Tres sunt, Ecclesia est, licet Laici. Vnusquisque enim de sua Fide viuit: And wee beinge Laiemenne are wee not Priestes? It is written, Christe hath made vs bothe a Kinge∣dome, and Priestes vnto God his Father: The Authoritie of the Churche, and the Honour by the Assemblie, or Councel of Order Sanctified of God hath made a difference bitwene the Laie, and the Cleregie. Where as there is no Assemblie of Ecclesiastical Order, the Prieste beinge there alone (without the companie of other Priestes) doothe bothe Minister the Oblation, and also Baptize. Yea, and be there but Three togeather, and, though they be Latemenne, yet is there a Churche. For euery man liueth of his owne Faithe.

Againe, ye demaunde of me, what Bishoppe of Sacisburie euer sithence Au∣gostines time maineteined this Doctrine. I might likewise, and by as good Au∣thoritie demaunde of you, what Bishop of Rome euer before the same Englishe Augustines time maineteined your Doctrine? Or, as I saide before, what Bi∣shop of Rome euer before that time either saide, or knewe your Priuate Masse? Touchinge the Bishoppes of Sarisburie, you your selfe haue already named twoo, Bishop Shaxton, and Bishop Capon, bothe Learned, and graue Fathers, and bothe Preachers, and professours of the Gospel. For the reste of the Bishops, that were before them, what Faithe they helde, and what they either liked, or misliked, by their writinges, or Sermons it dothe not greately appeare. I truste, they helde the Fundation, and liued, and died in the Faithe of Christe. If they had liued in these daies, and seene, that you see, they would not haue benne parta∣kers of your wilfulnesse.

To be shorte, wée succede the Bishoppes, that haue benne before our daies. Wee are Elected, Consecrate, Confirmed, and Admitted, as they were. If they were deceiued in any thinge, wee succede them in place, but not in errour. They were our Predecessours, but not the Rules, and Standardes of our Faithe. Or rather, to sette aparte al comparison of Personnes, the Doctrine of Christe this daie, M. Hardinge, Succedeth your Doctrine: as the Daie Succedeth the Nighte: as the Lighte Succedeth Darkenesse: and as the Truthe Succedeth Errour.

Nowe for as mutche, as ye haue thought it so good, to examine the Petite de∣gree of the Bishoppes of Sarisburie, I truste ye wil not thinke it il, if I al••tle touche the like in the Bishoppes of Rome: that wée maye thereby be the better hable to sée some of the branches of your Succession. Therefore shortly to saie, you knowe that Pope Marcellinus committed Idolatrie: that Pope Syluester. 2. was a Coniurer, and gaue him selfe whole Body, and Soule vnto the Diuel, and by the Diuels procuremente was made Pope: That Pope Zosimus for ambi∣tion, and claime of gouernmente corrupted the Holy Councel of Nice: That Pope Liberius was an Arian Heretique: That Pope Leo, as appeareth by the Legende, was likewise an Arian: That Pope Coelestinus was a Nestorian He∣retique: Pope Honorius was a Monothelite Heretique: Pope Iohn. 22. was re∣prooued by Gerson, and the Schole of Parise for an Heretique: Petrarcha saithe,

Rome is a Sanctuarie of al Heresies:* 1.49 Lyra saithe, that many Popes haue fallen into Heresies:* 1.50 you know, that Pope Hildebrande, as he was charged by the Coun∣cel of Brixia, was an Aduouterer, a Churcherobber, a Periured man, a Man∣killer, a Sorcerer, and a Renegate of the Faithe: That Platina calleth the Popes sometimes in scorne,* 1.51 Pontificulos, Litle Petite Popes: sometimes Monstra, & Portenta, Monsters, and Vnnatural, and il shapen Creatures. Pope Adrian the fourthe was woonte to saie, Succedimus, non Petro in pascendo, sed Romulo in Parricidio: VVee Succede, not Peter in Feedinge, but Romulus in Killinge. And to leaue Dame Iohane the woman Pope, with many others moe of like Vertue, and Holinesse, as hauinge no pleasure in this rehersal: And, for as mutche as M. Hardinge began this mater with Sarisburie, to ende it with the same,* 1.52 Iohannes Sarisburiensis saithe, In Romana Ecclesia sedent Scribae, & Pharisaei: In the Churche of Rome (by Succession) sitte the Scribes, and the Phariseis.

This is M. Hardinges holy Succession. Though Faithe faile, yet Succession muste holde. For vnto sutche Succession God hath bounde the Holy Ghoste. For lacke of this Succession, for that in our Sees in the Churches of Englande, wée finde not so many Idolaters, Necromancers, Heretiques, Aduouterours, Church∣robbers, Periured Personnes, Mankillers, Renegates, Monsters, Scribes, and Pharisies, as wée maie easily finde in the Churche of Rome, therefore, I trowe, M. Hardinge saithe, wée haue no Succession: wée are no Bishoppes: wée haue no Churche at al.

But S. Paule saithe, Faithe commeth (not by Succession, but) by hearinge: and hearinge commeth, (not of Legacie, or Enheritance from Bishop to Bishop, but) of the Woorde of God. They are not alwaies Godly, that Succede the Godly. Manasses succeded Ezechias: and Hieroboam succeded Dauid. By Succession the Turke this daie possesseth, and holdeth the foure greate Patriarkal Sées of the Churche, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioche, and Hierusalem. By Succession, Christe saithe,* 1.53 Desolation shal fitte in the Holy place: and Antichriste shal presse into the roume of Christe.

It is not sufficient to claime Succession of place: It behooueth vs rather to haue regarde to the Succession of Doctrine.* 1.54 S. Bernarde saithe, Quid prodest, si Canonice eligantur, & non Canonicè viuant? What auaileth it, if they be chosen in Or∣der, and liue out of Ordere So saithe S. Augustine,* 1.55 Ipsum Characterem multi, & Lu∣pi, & Lupis imprimunt: The outwarde marke, or right of a Bishop manie geue to Woulues, and he Woulues them selues. Therefore the Ancient Father Irenaeus geueth vs this good Councel: Eis, qui sunt in Ecclesia, Presbyteris, obaudire oportet, qui Suc∣cessionem habent ab Apostolis,* 1.56 qui cum Episcopatus Successione, Charisma Ve∣ritatis certum, secundum beneplacitum Patris, acceperunt: It becommeth vs, to obeie those Priestes in the Churche, whiche haue their Succession from y^• Apostles: and togeather with the Succession of their Bishoprikes, accordinge to y^• good wil of God the Father, haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the Truthe. S. Cyprian beinge likewise charged for dissentinge from his predecessours, answeareth thus: Si quis de Antecessoribus meis, non hoc obseruauit, & tenuit, quod nos Dominus exemplo, & Magisterio suo do∣cuit, potest simplicitati eius venia concedi: Nobis ver•• ignoici non potest, qui nunc à Domino admoniti, & instructi sumus: If any of my Predecessours haue not obserued, and kepte the same, that our Lorde hath taught vs bothe by his example, and also by his Com∣maundemente, his simplicitie maie be pardoned. But wee (if wée doo the like) can hope for no pardonne, beinge nowe admonished, and instructed of our Lorde.

Compare the vse, and order of our Churches, M. Hardinge, with the Primi∣tiue Churche of God, and ye shal easily see the right of our Succession. S. Cyprian

saithe:* 1.57 Si Canalis aquae, quae copiose prius, & la••g••••••r proflu••ba••, subit•• deficiat, nōne ad¦fontē pergitur? &c. Hoc & nūc facere oporte•• Dei Sacerdotes. Praecepta Diuina seruantes, vt in aliquo si nutauerit,* 1.58 & vacillauerit Veritas, ad originem Dominicam, & Euangelicam at{que} Apostolicam Traditionem reuertamur: & inde surgat actus nostri ratio, vnde & Ordo, & Origo surrexit: If the Pipes of y^• Conduit, which before ranne with abundance, happen to faile, doo wee not vse to searche to the Head: &c. The Priestes of God keepinge Goddes commaundementes, must do the same: that if the Truthe haue fainted, or failed in any pointe, vvee returne to the very Original of our Lorde, and to the Tradition of the Gospel, and of the Apostles: that ther••hence wee maie take the discretion of our dooinges, from whence the Order it selfe, and Original firste beganne.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Vntruthe. For it is knovven▪ vvee haue them.
• * 1.2

  Vntruthe. For vvee haue aban∣doned neither the Priesthoode, nor the Sacri∣fice, that Christe appointed.
• * 1.3

  Vntruthe. For B. Shaxton, and B. Capon taught the same.
• * 1.4

  Vntruthe. For he vvas chosen by Canonical Election of the Chapter, as al o∣ther Bishoppes haue benne be∣fore.
• * 1.5

  In praescri∣ptionibus aduersus Haereticos. These be Tertullians vvoordes.
• * 1.6

  Epist. 165.
• * 1.7

  Vntruthe, By your ovvne Confession.
• * 1.8

  Euen he, that gaue M. Har∣dinge Orders in the time of K. Edvvarde.
• * 1.9

  Vntruths tvvo togeather in one Sentence: See the An∣svveare.
• * 1.10

  Athanas. in Apologia. ••
• * 1.11

  A vaine Vn∣truthe. For if it had benne any thinge, it had benne a Com∣munion, & not a Masse. But Athanasius saithe plainely, Ne{que} Ecclesia ibi erat, ne{que} Sacra ficbant, ne{que} tē∣pus mysteriorum agebatur.
• * 1.12

  Contra H••∣res. •• Lib a. In Dialog•• contra Lu∣ciferianos.
• * 1.13

  Succes∣sion.
• * 1.14

  Sacerdotē.
• * 1.15

  M. Hardinges Brethren Apo∣states.
• * 1.16

  A manifest Vntruthe: For vvee haue bothe Order, and Co•• secration.
• * 1.17

  Li. 1. Epist. 6
• * 1.18

  Eusebius Eccles. Hist. Li. 6. ca. 43. in Graeco.
• * 1.19

  M. Hardinges modestie.
• * 1.20

  An odious Vntruthe: For touchinge the Ministerie of the Churche, vvee haue nei∣ther Preached so, not vvritten so.
• * 1.21

  Matthael▪ 23.
• * 1.22

  Actor. 20.
• * 1.23

  Dist 40. Non est Facile.
• * 1.24

  Dist. 40. Non nos.
• * 1.25

  Succes∣sion.
• * 1.26

  Dist 19. Sic Om∣n••••: In Gloss.
• * 1.27

  Iohan. 8. Iohan. 9.
• * 1.28

  Lucae. 20. Mare. 11. Beda in Luc. Lib. 5. Ca. 80. Cyrill. in Cathe∣na in Luc. 20.
• * 1.29

  Chrysost. in Mat∣thae. Homi. 39.
• * 1.30

  Cornel. Episco. Bitontin. in Concil. Triden.
• * 1.31

  August. Epist. 165.
• * 1.32

  Successiō▪ Confirma¦tion.
• * 1.33

  Irenae. li. 3. ca. 3. Euseb li. 5. cap. 5. Epiphan. L••b. 1. De Corpoerat. Optat. contra Donatist. lib. 2.
• * 1.34

  Calat. 2.
• * 1.35

  Felin▪ De Con∣stitu. Ca. Cano∣num S••atuta. Colum. 6. Ver. Fallit.
• * 1.36

  Panor. De Con∣stitution. Trans∣lato.
• * 1.37

  Nilus de Pri∣matu Romani Pontificis.
• * 1.38

  Artic. 4. Diu. 25. Cyprian. Lib. 1. Epist. 4.
• * 1.39

  Dist 64. Cap. ••in.
• * 1.40

  Confirma¦tion. Consecra∣tion.
• * 1.41

  Socrates Lib 7. Cap. 28. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• * 1.42

  Ana••let. Episto. 3. Dist. 95. Iuxta Sanctorum.
• * 1.43

  Sozomen. Lib. 6. Cap. 23.
• * 1.44

  Petr. de Palude, De Potestate A∣post••l.
• * 1.45

  Iohannes Maior in. 4. Sen••. Dist. 24. q. 3.
• * 1.46

  Platina in ••e∣••erino Papa.
• * 1.47

  Succes∣sion.
• * 1.48

  Tertullian. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Exhorta. ad Castitatem.
• * 1.49

  Successiō of Popes.
• * 1.50

  Nicol. Lyra in Matthae. Ca. 16.
• * 1.51

  Platina in Ro∣mano. 1.
• * 1.52

  Iohan. Sarisbu∣rien. in Polycra∣tico.
• * 1.53

  Matthae. 24.
• * 1.54

  Bernard. in Con¦cilio Remen.
• * 1.55

  August. Contra Donatist. Li. 6. 1. q. 3. vocantur Canes.
• * 1.56

  Irenae. Li. 4. Cap. 43.
• * 1.57

  Confes∣sion not necessary.
• * 1.58

  Cyprian. ad Pompeium con∣tra Epist. Ste∣phani.