A defence of the Apologie of the Churche of Englande conteininge an answeare to a certaine booke lately set foorthe by M. Hardinge, and entituled, A confutation of &c. By Iohn Iewel Bishop of Sarisburie.

The Apologie, Cap. 3. Diuision. 2.

In times past, when Nazianzene sawe in his daies, how menne in sutche Assemblies were so blinde, and wilful, that they were car∣ried with affections,* 1.1 and laboured more to geate the victorie, then the Truthe, he pronounced openly, that he neuer had seene a good ende of any Councel. What would he saie nowe, if he were aliue at this daie, and vnderstoode the heauinge, & shouinge of these menne? For at that time, though the matter were laboured on al sides, yet the controuersies were wel hearde, and open errours were put cleane awaie by the general voice of al partes: But these menne wil neither haue the case to be freely disputed, nor yet how many errours soeuer there be, suffer they any to be changed. For it is a common custome

of theirs, often, and shamelesly to boaste, that their Churche cannot erre, that in it there is no faulte, & that they muste geeue place to vs in nothinge. Or, if there be any faulte, yet muste it be tried by their Bishoppes, and Abbates onely, bicause they be the Directours, and Rulers of maters: for that they be the Churche of God. Ari∣stotle saithe, that a cittie cannot consiste of Bastardes: but whe∣ther the churche of God maie consiste of these menne▪ lette them selues consider. For doubtelesse, neither be theire Abbates, Ab∣bates in deede, nor their Bishoppes natural right Bishoppes.

M. Hardinge.

Gregorie Nazianzene in his Epistle to Procopius saithe thus: I refuse to come to whatsoeuer Councell of Bishoppes. Because I coulde neuer yet to this daie see the ende of any Councell ende wed with any profite, and after whiche, thinges amisse were not rather made more greuous, then healed. Nazianzene in that Epistle spake of* 1.2 prouinciall Councelles, specially those that were holden in his troublesome times, where most commonly Heretikes through fauour of their deceiued Princes bare the swea. VVhiche in matters of Faithe coulde hardely then obteine any credite amonge the Catholikes, onlesse they had benne confirmed by the auctoritie of the Bishop of Rome: of whiche sorte at that age were fewe. Those other Nazianzene had experience of, of these he had not. Albeit in deede the vtilitie of the Nicence Councell in his time, that is to saie, within so fewe yeeres after the same was holden, was not yet thoroughly espied, and fully knowen abroade. Neither would he, if he were aliue at this daie, reproue the Holy generall Councell of Trente, as ye doo. For why shoulde he?

‡ 1.3 And how shamelesse be ye, to require vs, to yelde and geue place vnto you? VVho made you iudges ouer vs? ‡ VVho gaue you commission? VVhere is your warrant?

VVhat neede ye to shewe your malice so muche at Bishoppes, and Abbattes? VVhiche of them hurteth you? Haue ye not in prison, or in custody* 1.4 at your appointement all the Bishoppes of England, one Apostata yet liuinge excepted, which after sundry flightes and changinge of cotes, is fledde from the tentes of the Churche to your scattered troupes? The Abbottes, haue ye not driuen them awaie? Be ye yet a fraide of their shadowes? As by Aristotle a Cittie can not consiste of Bastardes, nomore can the Churche of Englande consiste of suche Bastarde Bishoppes, as ye be: what number of Abbottes ye haue lefte in Cloisters, suche number of true Bishoppes haue yee lefte in Churches. One muste I still except, who is a true Bishop by consecration (as I vnderstande) though a false man by Apostasie, and goinge from his Faithe, and from his Religion.

The B. of Sarisburie.

Touchinge the vnlucky successe of Councelles, the Ancient Father Nazian∣zene saithe thus,* 1.5 Equidem, vt verè, quod res est, scribam, prorsus decreui fugere Omnem Conuentum Episcoporum. Nullius enim concilij bonum exitum vnquam vidi. Concilia enim non minuunt mala, sed augent potiùs: To saie the truthe, I am vtterly determined neuer to comme to any Councel of Bishoppes. For I neuer yet sawe good ende of any Councel. For Councelles abate not il thinges, but ra∣ther increase them. These woordes thus vttered, whether they be vniuersally true, or otherwise, I wil not reason. It maie seeme hereby, this Learned Father, for his time, by experience founde them true. And for ought, that maie appeare to the contrarie, notwithstandinge any thinge conteined in your Glose, he seemeth to vtter the same, as wel of General Councelles, as of Prouincial.

Certainely after the Greate General Councel of Nice, the Arian Heretiques waxed moe, and more mighty, then euer they had benne before. The Emperours Constantius, and Valens, with their Wiues, and Courtes became Arians. Con∣stantinus

the Greate him selfe was also doubted to be an Arian.* 1.6 Liberius the Bi∣shop of Rome, and Hosius that famous Learned Bishop of Spaine, gaue their handes vnto the Arians. Tenne seueral sundrie Prouincial councelles gaue their voices with the Arians. S. Hierome saithe, Ingemuit totus Orbis, & Arianum se esse miratus est: The whole wordle beganne to groane, and marueiled, that it had taken parte with the Arians. Therefore Nazianzene saithe, He neuer sawe Councel,* 1.7 nor Prouincial, nor General, that ended wel: for that, as one saithe, The greater side oftentimes ouer vveigheth the better. Euen so saide the Frenche Kinges Embassadoure, in the behalfe of his Prince, in your Chapter at Tridente: Nostra, Patrumqúe nostrorum, & Auorum memoria, Synodos indictas fuisse, Episcopos conuenisse,* 1.8 maximos in Germania, at{que} Italia Conuētus peractos esse, scimus. Vix tamen vllus, aut perexiguus inde fructus Christianitati constirit: Wee knowe, that bothe in our Grandfathers, and Fathers, and oure owne time, Councelles haue benne summoned,* 1.9 Bishoppes haue mette togeather, greate and solemne Assemblies haue benne keapte, as wel in Germanie, as in Italie: yet scarcely any good at al, or very litle good came thereof to the state of Christendome.

Concerninge Abbates, and Monasteries, wee haue saide before. Wée haue as many Abbates in Englande this daie, as either Christe euer had, or his Apostles. Notwithstandinge one of your Learned felowes of Louaine, for the good wil he beareth to that Religion,* 1.10 telleth vs, that the Apostles vvere Monkes, & Christe himselfe was the Abbate. The Abbates, and Monkes, that were in olde times, were menne geuen to Studie,* 1.11 and Learninge. And out of Monasteries learned menne were then taken, as out of Schooles, and Vniuersities, to the rule, and go∣uernemente of the Churche. But your Abbates nowe are as mutche like those Abbates, as your Churche is like the Primitiue Churche of Christe.

Erasmus saithe,* 1.12 Haud scio, an nunc magis expediret Ecclesiae Christianae, si pauciora essent Monasteria, esset{que} omnium idem Cultus, eaedem{que} preces, ea∣dem{que} vitae ratio: I knowe not whether it were better for the Churche of Christe, that there were fewer Monasteries: and that al menne had one Seruice of God, one kinde of Praier, and one order of Life.

Notes

• * 1.1

  Nazian. ad Pro∣copium.
• * 1.2

  Vntruthe. For he speaketh of al manner of Councelles, as vvel General, as Prouincial: His vvoordes be, Prorsus decreui fugere Om∣nem Con∣uentum E∣piscoporū.
• ‡ 1.3

  This is a lusty kinde of Diui∣nitie.
• * 1.4

  Vntruthe. For they are com∣mitted onely by the appointe∣mente of the Prince.
• * 1.5

  Gregor. Nazian∣zenus ad Pro∣copium. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉.
• * 1.6

  The suc∣cesse of councels. Monkes, and Ab∣bates.
• * 1.7

  Sozomenus. Hieronym. Ad∣uersus Lucife∣rianos.
• * 1.8

  Tit. Liuius. Ma∣ior pars vincit meliorem.
• * 1.9

  Oratio Synodica Legati Regis Franciae. An. 1562.
• * 1.10

  Copus. Fol. 284.
• * 1.11

  August. Epist 81. August. Epist. 76
• * 1.12

  Erasm. in Scho∣lijs in Epistolam ad Rusticum Monachum.