To the extent possible under law, the Text Creation Partnership has waived all copyright and related or neighboring rights to this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above, according to the terms of the CC0 1.0 Public Domain Dedication (http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/). This waiver does not extend to any page images or other supplementary files associated with this work, which may be protected by copyright or other license restrictions. Please go to http://www.textcreationpartnership.org/ for more information.
YOu haue heard before,* 1.1 of certaine of the seuerall and ioint offices of their counter∣feit church-aldermen: and likewise in the chapter, how they challenge to themselues, in their elderships, the whole gouernment
in all church-causes. Now for that it might bee doubted how farre these words, Church causes should extend: they haue taken great paines to cleare their meaning in that behalfe, and so haue vsed the matter (to my vnderstanding) as that they haue left out no one cause, of what nature soeuer, but that either directly, or indirectly, by hooke or crooke, they haue brought it vnder their lee, and with∣within their compasse. Read their sayings, and then iudge as you see cause.
All crimes (saith Knox) that by the lavv of God deserue death,* 1.2 deserue also excommunication: as vvilfull murderers, adulterers, sorcerers, vvitches, coniurers, charmers, giuers of drinke to destroy children, open blasphemers, as denyers of the truth, raylors against the Sacraments, &c. And hovv will they proceed in the execution of this censure, vp∣on such manner of sinnes: the same order doth specifie. A su∣perintendent must direct his letters of summons to the parish church, where the offender dvvelleth: or if the offender haue no certaine dvvelling place, then to the chiefe tovvne, and best reformed church in that diocesse, vvhere the crime was committed, appointing to the offender, a certain day and place vvhen & vvher he shal appeare before the superinten∣dent & his assessors, to heare that crime tried, as touching the truth of it, and to ansvver for himselfe, vvhy the sentence of excommunication should not be pronounced against him.
Here are then new summons, and nevv citations. Here is authoritie challēged, not only to appoint such offices, and to vse such iurisdiction: but (that which seemeth strāge to me indeed) to trie a murderer, and such like offendors, as (touching the very facts) whether they committed them, or not. Do they impanall a iurie thinke you, as we do in England, for triall of the fact? or are the elders of the con∣sistorie
iudges of the facts, as they be of law? That is not expressed. But what if the partie vpon his summons ap∣peare not?* 1.3 That is no great matter. Inquisition being taken of the crime, he is the next Sunday to be excōmunicated: not for his contempt in not appearing, but for the very fact it selfe, as in their form of excommunication in such cases, it is expressed. For the inquisition of the crime taken in his wilfull absence, shall be a conuiction for his soule: let his body escape the temporall magistrats hands as it may.
This is round dealing. A man is condemned of murder, and neuer heard: & for sitting, but of one citation in a mat∣ter of life and death, out goeth their excōmunication? Call they this, proceeding after the new discipline? But to fol∣low this case to the end. It happeneth, that this murderer is aftervvard pardoned by the magistrat, but yet though hee professe repentance, he may not be receaued till after fortie daies of triall, and vntill hee hath satisfied the kinred and friends of the man that vvas slaine. You may say, what if they will not be satisfied? That I warrant you is prouided for.* 1.4 Then ought the church to put moderation to the vn∣reasonable, in case the ciuile magistrat hath not so done be∣fore. It is very well, what the king will not, they may. Be∣sides, when it is sayd, that the church ought to put such a moderation: you must vnderstand that except the parties do agree to be so put, out flieth againe (as I suppose) their foresaid slipperie censure.
Againe,* 1.5 for all other offences that fall not vnder the ciuile svvord, and yet are slanderous and offensiue to the church, as fornication, drunkennesse vsed, svvearing, curssed speaking, chiding, fighting, bravvling, and common contempt of the order of the church, breaking of the sabboth, vvāton & vain vvords, vncomly gestures, negligēce in hearing of preaching,
or obtaining from the Lords table, vvhen it is publikely mi∣nistred, suspicion of auarice or of pride, superfluitie or riotous∣nesse in cheare or raiment, &c. All these likewise do come by certaine degrees, within the compasse of their censures: all according to the word of God, you must suppose, or els you do them wrong. Vnto these may be also further ad∣ded,* 1.6 ministers apparell, vvomens lasciuious, dissolute, or too sumptuous attire, either publikely or priuatly, dauncing, all games that bring losse, stage-plaies of all sorts, haunting of tauerns, or tipling houses, all inordinat liuers, and all such like matters, according to the discretion of the eldership, cuire∣linquenda sunt, vvhervnto they are to be left. From which discretion, it proceeded (as I take it) that for some disorders committed in Edenburgh,* 1.7 about a Robin-hood, which the prouost and bailifs would haue staied, the vvhole multi∣tude vvere holden excommunicate. But yet I haue not done with these causes. They grow vpon me, more and more. And it is no reason, that our owne brotherhood of Eng∣land should be pretermitted. They (vz. the elderships) shall suffer no levvd customs (saith the admonitioner) to remaine in their parishes,* 1.8 either games, or othervvise. You know their meaning. Maipoles, Ales, maigames, moricedances, all must downe. How doth Robin-hood stick in their sto∣macks? Besides, all that haue liued vvith offence to the con∣gregation,* 1.9 although they haue suffered the punishment of the lavv for it: yet because they offended therby both God & the church, they are vvithin the limits of the elderships, & to be censured by them. The demōstrator is also very bountiful. The office of the church gouernors (saith he) is to decide con∣trouersies in doctrine and maners,* 1.10 so far as pertaineth to con∣science, and the church censures. That is, if any shall refuse their said decision, they will not (indeed) whip him or
hang him, (those are ciuile punishments.) But so farre as the church-censures will reach, haue at him. Will he run to trouble his neighbour, either to the Chancerie, to the Kings-bench, or cōmon pleas, & may haue both cōscience and iustice of his eldership at home? Such a fellovv shal pay for it. It is wisely therfore considered of the humble motio∣ner, where he telleth the lords of her maiesties priuie coū∣saile,* 1.11 that the church is to censure such a partie, vvho is appa∣rantly troublesome and contentious, and vvithout reasonable cause, and vpon meere vvill and stomacke doth vex & molest his brother, to trouble the countrie. Apparātly troublesome, that is, apparantly to their conceits: without reasonable cause, vz. to be approued by thē. And how can they know how reasonable the cause is, except they examine both the fact, and be skilfull also, what the law of the land is in such a case? Must he bring his learned councel to their Alder∣mens barre, to proue his cause reasonable? but what should I moue such a trifling question? Well, pardon me for it, and to make you an amends, you shall heare Cartvvrights opinion of these matters.* 1.12 It is this, vz. that euery fault, that tendeth either to the hurt of a mans neighbor, or to the hinde∣rance of the glory of God, is to be examined and dealt in by the orders of the church. This brings before their consistorie of elders, all matters of right, all pleas reall and personall, and all pleas of the crowne, as I imagine.
Snecanus also saith,* 1.13 Quoduis peccatum, &c. Euery sinne is here to be vnderstood both against our neigbor & against God howsoeuer it be cōmitted by force or by fraud, by vvords or by deeds, purposely or ignorantly, manifestly or secretly. But yet the Demonstrator goeth further. Hitherto we haue heard nothing to purpose, but only of sinnes committed. But he will not abate you an inch of all the sins, which the schole∣men
do call sinnes of omission.* 1.14 VVhatsoeuer is enioined (saith he) as a dutie to be done by euery christian, if he leaue it vn∣done, he is to be compelled by the gouernors of the church to do it. It is also of a maruellous reach, that the admonitioner speaketh of, when he affirmeth, that by this their discipline euery man may be kept vvithin the limits of his vocatiō. Per∣aduenture it wil be a harder matter then they looke for, to be able to discerne of the limits of euery mans calling. But if they will needs take so much vpon them, because they haue once said it; then if any man, be he prince or subiect, exceed the limits of his calling, where their elderships are established: it tendeth surely to their condemnation, that may reforme him, and doe it not.
But it may be, that some wil say, we haue heard of Knox, of Danaeus, of the Demōstrator, of the admonitioners of Sne∣canus, of Cartvvright, and we know not whom: but what sayth Beza of this matter? we would be glad to heare him. I cannot blame you, for you shall be sure that he wil come in with one trick or other beyond his fellowes. You haue heard al the sinnes (almost) that are reckoned vp already, as falling within the bounds of the elderships iurisdiction. But if we shall beleeue Beza, and speake indeed properly, as he would haue vs: no sinnes (as they are sinnes) do belong to the elderships to be dealt in,* 1.15 but as they are scandala, that is, as they offend the godly consciences of Gods children. For example: I heare a man blaspheme God, or breake a∣ny other cōmandement of the first table; or I heare or see him cōmit some sinne against the second table, vz against his neighbor, as against my self by doing me some iniurie, either in word or deed, either in my goods, or in my name, now in this, there are offred me 2 kinds of iniuries, the first & the cheefest is the greefe of conscience, that I cōceiue in
respect, that such a mā hath brokē Gods law, & therby not only woūded my hart, but giuen an ill exāple, which may peraduenture corrupt others. The second iniurie is, by his hurting me in my goods or fame. Now forsooth in this se∣cond respect, I may go to the ciuile magistrat, but may not come to the eldership, by any degrees, but only in the first respect, vz. because my neighbor in hurting of me hath vi∣olated the law of god, & so woūded my cōscience. Neither must I complaine to the eldership, with any mind either to haue him punished, or to haue my iniuries recōpensed, but only to bring him to repētance, & to seeke the good of his soule. By this deuise you may perceaue that although he seeme in words to dissent frō the rest that haue writtē more bluntly, yet in effect he agreeth with thē, or rather hath in∣creased their pretēded iurisdiction. For by this means, they may not only take vpon thē to enter into euery action, but they would bind euery particular man, whosoeuer, to be∣come an informer to their court. Besides, wheras he sayth, that in the said second respect, we may go to the ciuile ma∣gistrat, it is but a mist that he casteth before mens eies. For be it in a matter of words, that I pretēd my selfe to be gree∣ued, and so complaine to their eldership: Beza & al the rest do hold, that the partie cannot passe their fingers, vntill he haue submitted and reconciled himselfe vnto me. And in such a matter who will desire more? For if he looke for damages in monie, he will be held cruell. And then what is left for the ciuile magistrat? Againe, my neighbour pre∣tending that I haue done him iniurie, either in his lands, goods, or fame, chargeth me with the particulars, which being indeed false, he saith are true, wherupon my consci∣ence being wounded, that he should sin so horribly against God, first by lying, & then by iustifying his lie: I cōplaine
to the consistorie. The matter is heard, I am cleared. And except he submit himselfe both to aske God and mee for∣giuenesse, the censures of the church proceed against him: and so that way also he is debarred from the benefite of temporall law, in so much as he can haue no colour to be∣gin sute againe, for that, wherein hee hath acknowledged me to haue bene by him wrongfully charged. What is here then left for the ciuile state to deale in? Furthermore in a matter of iniurie done vnto me in my lands or goods: I pretend to that court, that such a man hath wounded my conscience, in breaking Gods commandemēt, by such his iniurie offered vnto me:* 1.16 well, it may be the partie will de∣nie it, and then my proofes must be produced. If I iustifie my complaint, the offender must likewise in this case submit himselfe vnto me, and acknowledge the iniurie. If hee will not so do, the censures proceed, and so he is debarred (as it is sayd before): if hee do, then on the other side, I must of necessitie, forgiue him the offence which gree∣ued my conscience, or else I also do come within their compasse. Well, I do therefore forgiue him: and shall I neuerthelesse prosecute him in forme of law, for the iniurie done to me? Hereunto maister Beza sayth thus:* 1.17 Vix potest condonâsse iniuriam dici, qui de priuata in∣iuria fratrem non contentus primùm arguisse, deinde adhibi∣tis testibus admonuisse, ad magistratus vs{que} tribunal illum reluctantē persequitur. He cā scarsely be sayd to haue forgiuen an iniurie, vvho not contenting himselfe to haue first repro∣ued his brother for his priuat iniurie, and to haue admo∣nished him before vvitnesses, doth notwithstanding dravv him (against his vvill) to the magistrats seat of iustice.
But be it as he confesseth afterward, that in such a case a man may go to the law, to omit that hee shall thereby in∣curre
the high displeasure of these Rabbies, (which he shall be sure to haue sticking vpon him vntill they can waite him as good a turne) yet I say againe, vvhat is left to the magistrat? The iniurie is confessed afore. There shall need no triall of the fact, where so many witnesses may be vsed, to prooue his confession afore, if now he should denie it. All that the magistrat hath to do, is to set down what recompense I shall haue for my sayd iniurie, and to tax my charges. If you say nay, hee will heare the cause againe. Indeed I confesse he had need to do so. But so both I and the partie should be doubly charged and trou∣bled. Besides, that course would turne to the vtter discre∣dit of the presbyteries, that their dealings, fitting in the seat of Christ, should come to be scanned by those, that are but humane ordinations. For so some of them by colour of the Apostles words do debase magistracie. And therefore peraduenture they will thinke it meet, that vpon certificat from them, the magistrats should so prōceed to adiudge me a recompense, and to rate mine expenses without any fur∣ther adoo. Some such thing it is, (though not in this very case) which the ministers of the low countries haue desi∣red. Thus a very graue man borne amongst them, repor∣teth of this matter.* 1.18 Ministri nullam habent coërcendi pote∣statem, nec habere volunt. Tantùm cupiunt, vt magistratus puniant eos, qui ipsorum mandatis parere detrectarent. Quod nunquam sunt facturi, nisi prius de tota causa legiti∣me recognouerint, actoribus aut accusatoribus ministris con∣sistorij. Quod seniores & ministri alienū à suo ministerio esse similiter iudicant. In haec absurd a inciderunt, propter reiectam episcoporum authoritatē, &c. The ministers there haue no po∣vver to correct any man, neither vvill they haue any. Only they desire of the magistrats to punish such, as should refuse
to obey their cōmandements, vvhervnto the magistrats vvil neuer yeeld, except they may take notice of the vvhole cause againe by ordinarie course of lavv, the ministers of the con∣sistories making thēselues either plaintifs or accusers. VVhich the elders and ministers do iudge, not to be agreeable to their ministerie. And they are fallen into these absurdities (he had also before named some other) through their reiecting of the authoritie of bishops. You see their desire in this case, and it may (in mine opinion) bee stretched to the former. And then (as I haue shewed) through scandales, offences, consciences, and I know not what pretences, challenges, and counterfait prerogatiues, the iurisdiction of their el∣derships, will be so large, as the ciuile magistrats, iudges, and lawyers, shall not need to be greatly troubled.
These things, with all the premisses of this chapter con∣sidered, I dare say, you long to know by what authoritie they challenge to deale in all these so many, and so infinite causes. And to satisfie your longing, the learned discourser shall first speake his mind:* 1.19 Our sauiour Christ (sayth he) in the vvord (church) alludeth to the Ievves Sanedrim, vvhich had the hearing and determining of all difficult matters a∣mongst them: the like vvhereof, he vvilled to be established in his church, for administration of gouernment. What, you will say, but weightie matters? How come they now, to al matters: euen to Robin-hood, maigames, and may poles? Ye say truly, but Cartvvright will supply this defect. For indeed this discourser shot many bowes too short. This vvas the policie and discipline of the Ievves,* 1.20 and of the si∣nagogue (saith he) from vvhence our sauiour tooke this and translated it vnto this church: that vvhen any man had done any thing that they held for a fault, that then the same vvas punished and censured by the elders of the church.
And M. Beza.* 1.21 Quod ius fuit Synagogae sub lege, cur non va∣leat in ecclesia sub euangelio, authore Christo, Math. 18.17. non video: I see not why the same authoritie, that the Syna∣gogue had vnder the lawe, shoulde not continue now in the Church vnder the Gospell, according to Christs institution in the chapter mentioned.
Indeede if Christ haue ordained any such matter, it is good reason it should bee so. But because they will needs bring vs to the Iewes: let vs see what prettie tales, they will tell vs of those times.
They say, (and it is true) that the Priests were the Law∣yers of the land.* 1.22 And would they be so now? If the same pollicie continue, why should they not? They tell vs further, that in ciuill causes, when there did arise anie doubt in law amongst the Iudges,* 1.23 the decision thereof did belong to the Priests iurisdiction. If that also were a good pollicie, and that it be continued by Christ: then I see no reason, why it should not againe be now established in all places. They say, that the 17. of Deuteronomie, from the beginning of the eight verse, vnto the ende of the thirteenth, doth intreat of the ecclesiasticall Senate: where it is said:* 1.24 that iudgements betweene bloud and bloud, between plea and plea,* 1.25 &c. did belong to the priestes, and that it was death for any man not to rest in his determination. If this pollicie be in like manner continued: who then in the common-wealth, but the ecclesiasticall Elderships? Matters of bloud, and of all pleas? Who would not take those points, to be more ciuil causes? It is true. But they tell vs, that when the priests dealt in any of those causes, they dealt not in them ciuilly,* 1.26 but ecclesiastically. It will trouble a man to find out their sleights. But one exam∣ple to this purpose you shall haue.
When such a doubt did rise (saith Beza) Non de facto;* 1.27 Not of the facte, (for that was meere ciuill) but Deiure; what the law was in such a case: then the Ecclesiasticall El∣dership determined thereof: and that doone, the ciuill Iudge gaue sentence of the facte accordingly. As though there should be two Courts in Westminster hall: one for mat∣ters of fact in ciuill and criminall causes, consisting of temporall Iudges: and another (for matters of Consci∣ence, for all sortes of offences, and for matters of lawe) consisting of ecclesiasticall persons, some Pastors and Do∣ctors, assisted in solemn maner with their church Alder∣men. Suppose then I pray you, that you are by chaunce in Westminster hall: such a difficult matter in lawe (as is pretended) commeth before the Iudges of some fact, whereupon downe they come from their seats, and go to the Elders. May it please your Maisterships, there is such a cause before vs, which seemeth to be a foule mat∣ter, if it fall out as the bill or declaration is laid: what is the law in this point▪ The Elders consult together, & resolue them. The Iudges giue them a legge, returne to their places, the cause falleth out according to the com∣plaint, and so they pronounce the sentence, as the Al∣dermen taught them. Suppose (I say) all these things, & then you perceiue what Bezaes distinction meaneth, & with what good discretion, both hee and his followers, will needs make two Courts of that, which was but one. It is a very great maruel, that any wise men should insist vpon these so apparant and childish fooleries. In all the Courtes (I thinke) in the world, since there haue beene anie: the same that were Iudges of the lawe, were Iud∣ges likewise to trie the fact: except it be in England. And yet heere also euen in the triall of factes by twelue men,
we haue not two Courts for one matter: but all the e∣uidence, witnesses, and whatsoeuer else, that doth ap∣pertaine for the finding out of the fact, are brought be∣fore the Iudges of the law. They sift and examine eue∣rie point and circumstance, that so the Iurie may bee fully informed: and they are indeede the chiefe dire∣ctors (as it is meete) in the whole matter. And as it is, and hath beene in all the worlde: so it was in all the Courtes appointed, either by Moses, or by King Ieho∣sophat in Iewrie.
It is true, that all difficulties that did rise amongst the Iudges of inferior Courts in the country, whether they were of law, or facts: and likewise, all appellations from lower Courts: did belong to the high Court at Ierusalem, to bee heard and determined. But doth that proue one Court to bee two▪ Nay, it is most apparant, that if they will needs fetch their Elderships from the Iewes Synedria: they may challenge to themselues as∣well the ciuill gouernement of the common-wealth, as the ecclesiasticall of the church. For so was the forme of gouernmēt then, according to the testimonies of scrip∣ture, of all the Iewes, the Rabbines, the Talmudists, Iosephus, & others. And I greatly doe suspect it, that in time they will begin to claime it: I find them so wauering and vn∣certaine in this matter. As yet; fi••, they cannot abide to heare of it. But obserue them how they stagger. Beza in his booke against Erastus, whereunto hee himselfe, and seuenteene other Ministers of Geneua subscribed, and which was the booke indeed, that Erastus did confute: both he & they all of them, were in doubt of this point: An verò ciuilem aliquam cōērtionem habuerit ex iure, ecclesi∣asticum illuà apud Iudaeos syned••ion, definire vix possumus:
habuisse tamen, posterioribus saltem temporibus, negare nec si velimus, possumus, &c. We can scarcely define, whether the ec∣clesiasticall Eldership amongst the Iewes, had any authoritie of right to vse ciuill punishments: that it had (at the least in the later times, if we would denie it, we cannot.
It is very well said. And then I trust it will be confes∣sed; that, as long as that authoritie continued, hee had beene a fond man, that should but once haue dreamed of the former distinction of making one Court two: vz. the one of fact, and the other of law: and of dealing in ciuill causes ecclesiastically, or I know not how. Yea (saith Beza) but though they had such authoritie, probabile est, it is probable, that it was procured, ambitione maximorum pon∣tificum, by the ambition of the high priests. How like you this▪ When he is so pressed both by scriptures, and with other authoritie, that hee cannot chuse but confesse the point in question: see how substantially he would seem to auoide it, with his Theologicall demonstration, Pro∣babile est. But that I doe the man no iniurie, hee hath an other shift of descant to helpe himselfe herein. Though they had any such authoritie, exiure, by the law (saith he) yet, Hoc nihil ad nos, It doth not concerne vs. Why▪ if the same pollicie that the Iewes had, bee continued by Christ in his Church: how commeth it to passe, that this doth nothing concerne vs▪ It is abrogated. Belike; euen as much, and as little of the pollicie must continue, as is in force at Geneua. But who did abrogate it▪ Christ. Where? When hee said, Reges gentium dominantur eis, vos autem non sic: The kinges of the nations beare rule ouer them, but it shall not be so with you.
They seeme to bee much beholden to this peece of scripture: it serueth them vnto so many purposes. But
if they presume in this sort vpon the continuall fauour of it: certainly it will leaue them, when they least sus∣pect it. If the Iewes Eldership, had to deale in ciuill causes, & that Christ had pu••posed to haue continued that form of gouernment in his Church, in all pointes sauing in that: he would haue said thus: The priests of the Iewes did beare rule ouer them, and had to deale in ciuill cau∣ses, but it shall not be so with you. It is to bee wondred ar; that Beza should content himselfe, with such vnlike∣ly, & so very improbable conceites. But it seemeth, that vpon some better aduisement with himself, and his fel∣lowe subscribers: they grewe all of them ashamed of these shiftes.* 1.28 And therefore in his booke of excommu∣nication (which hee lately published) hee is become in some sort another man. Now both he, & his said felow∣Ministers, are out of doubt, Ex clarissimis testimoniis, By most clear testimonies;* 1.29 that the authority which the priests had in ciuill causes, was gotten by bribes; Ex licentia & iu∣risdictionis perturbatione; through the libertie and confusion of those two distinctiurisdictions: which confusion, Christus nunquam approbanit; Christ neuer approued.
Ah, very well: though they haue turned ouer an o∣ther lease; and for Probabile est, do bragge of most cleare testimonies: yet, concerning Christs wordes, they are gone backward. For his commandement, Vos autem non sic: is now turned, as you see, into Nunquam approbauit: which carrieth with it no other force, than is ascribed to a negatiue collection. But for all their most cleare te∣stimonies, he must haue better eyes than mine, that can discerne any thing by them, sauing their inconstancie: and that there is cause, to suspect therby (as I said,) that when their credites are increased, they will not greatly
sticke to breake the bounds of their said distinctions, & deale as well with matters of fact, as of law. For els, be∣sides all the premisses, what meaneth this new ground of Diuinitie, published of late in print to the worlde, from Geneua? Ciuiles quo{que} lites, antequam Christiani essent magistratus (vt verisimile est) ex Apostolica doctrina,* 1.30 amicè & citra vllum ferè strepitum componebantur. The ciuill con∣tentions, before there were any Christian magistrates, were compounded, as it is likely, according to the Apostles doctrine, by the Elderships, friendly, and without any suites of law.
So as now, if this question were once determined: whether, that may bee lawful, when there is a Christian magistrate, that is lawfull to bee doone, when there is none: there should (as you see) bee no more suites in law for ciuill causes in the lande: their Elderships haue intituled themselues vnto them, and ingrossed them all by right, into their handes. You will say; it is true, that they haue done so indeede, if that question were resol∣ued: but that point standeth vppon an if. Nay, assure yourselues, it is past peraduenture: they would take it in great scorne, that such a matter should rest vndeci∣ded. Where it is held by the Churches of Heluetia, that such Elderships (as they of Geneua talke of) are needlesse, where there is a Christian magistrate: and thereupon the now L. Archbishop of Canterbury, for disputations sake reasoning, that if there were any such Elders then: yet it doth not followe, they should bee receiued now: Cartwright and his schollers are peremptorie, * 1.31 that the offices of those Elderships, are the rather to bee conti∣nued vnder a Christian magistrate. And the learned Discourser sayth as confidently in the like case: that the same authoritie, * 1.32 which the Church had, before there was a
Christian Magistrate, doth still continue when there is one, or else (as he addeth) we would be glad to learne how this au∣thoritie was translated from the Church, (in which it was once lawfully vsed) vnto the ciuill Magistrate. Agreeable to both which resolutions is that saying of Trauerse: That Heathen Princes being become Christians,* 1.33 doe receiue no further increase of their authoritie, than they had before, while they were in paganisme.
It is well: By these rules then, all is theirs. They are Kings & Princes: & the very immediate vicegerentes of Iesus Christ vppon earth. And good reason they should then haue both the swords: nay, twenty swords if there were so many. And besides, seeing they haue to deale in all causes, they must haue all lawes in the closets of their brestes: at the least authoritate; let scien∣tia come by Cartwrights deuise, vpon the suddaine into them how it may: at leysure.
But hereof sufficiently. Howsoeuer they crie our against our Bishoppes for intermedling with mo mat∣ters, than they are able to discharge: yet you see into what an infinite sea of affaires, they would thrust their Elderships: allowing generally that in themselues, which formerly they haue condemned in others. As by the next Chapter it will appeare more plainely vn∣to you.
Cap. 15.16.17.
The order of excom. in Scotlād. Ae. 2
Ibid.
Ibid.
Ibid. A. 6.7.
Historie of the church of Scotland.
The Hist. of the church of Scotland. pag. 527.
Admō. 2. pa. 46.
Adm. 2. p. 46.
Cap. 15.
pa. 75.
T.C. l. 2. p. 68
De discip. eccles. p. 460.
Cap. 18.
De excom. p. 46.49.
Beza. de ex∣com. pa. 52.
De excom. p. 57.
A. S.
pa. 87.
T.C. l. 1. p. 183.
Praef. ad lib. de excom.
Polit. pag. 129. Beza de excom. pag. 104.
Beza de excom. pag. 104.
T.C. l. 2. p. 17.
Beza de excom. pag. 104. 105.
••e••a de excom. pag. 106.
Beza de excom. pag. 104.
Beza de excom. pag. 106.
Pag. 109.
Thes. 83.
T.C. li. 1. p. 175.
Pag. 118. 119.
Def. of eccles. Dis. p. 148. 174.