A dispute against the English-popish ceremonies, obtruded vpon the Church of Scotland Wherein not only our ovvne argumemts [sic] against the same are strongly confirmed, but likewise the ansvveres and defences of our opposites, such as Hooker, Mortoune ... Forbesse, &c. particularly confuted.

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Title
A dispute against the English-popish ceremonies, obtruded vpon the Church of Scotland Wherein not only our ovvne argumemts [sic] against the same are strongly confirmed, but likewise the ansvveres and defences of our opposites, such as Hooker, Mortoune ... Forbesse, &c. particularly confuted.
Author
Gillespie, George, 1613-1648.
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[Leiden] :: Printed [by W. Christiaens],
in the yeare of our Lord 1637.
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Subject terms
Church of Scotland -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800.
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"A dispute against the English-popish ceremonies, obtruded vpon the Church of Scotland Wherein not only our ovvne argumemts [sic] against the same are strongly confirmed, but likewise the ansvveres and defences of our opposites, such as Hooker, Mortoune ... Forbesse, &c. particularly confuted." In the digital collection Early English Books Online. https://name.umdl.umich.edu/A01760.0001.001. University of Michigan Library Digital Collections. Accessed May 26, 2024.

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CHAP. VII.

That the Ceremonies are inexpedient, because they disturbe the peace of the Church.

THe great evils which have befallen to many famous Chur∣ches [Sect. I] through the meanes of intestine dissentions, should teach us not to admit the occasions of the like inconvenien∣cies among our selves, for as by concord minima crescunt, so by dis∣cord maxima dilabuntur.

Now, the Ceremonies are the bane of our Churches peace, & the unhappy instruments of lamentable discord among bretheren who should dwell togiter in unity. I know, that the refusers of the Cere∣monies are blamed, as if they were the troublers of the peace of the Church, & the tumultuating contentious spirits, who make so much adoe about matters of Rite and Ceremony. But I know also, that none have beene more ordinarily and commonly blamed for trou∣bling the peace of the Church, then they who least deserved to be blamed for it. So was t Elijah himselfe thought to be he that trou∣bled

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Israell, when he contended against the corruptions of the Church in his time. I will therefore observe foure markes where by it may be knowen, when contentions are in a Church, which side is re∣prehensible, and also who are to be blamed 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the troublers of our Israell.

In contentions raised in the Church, we are to consider the motive, [Sect. II] the measure, the matter, the manner. And 1. touching the motive; They who contend in a Church reprehensibly, are moved and indu∣ced to the course which they followe, by some worldly respect. Act. 19. 25. 1. Tim. 6. 5. Now, as for those in our Church, who con∣tend for the Ceremonies, many of them are ledde by such argumenta inartificialia, as, wealth, preferment, &c. and if conscience be at all loo∣ked to by them, yet they only throw and extort an assent and allo∣wance from it, when worldly respects have made them to propend and incline to an anterior liking of the Ceremonies. We doe not judge them, when we say so, but by their fruits we know them. As u Pope Innocent the 7. whiles he was yet a Cardinall, used to repre∣hend the negligence and timidity of the former Popes, who had not removed the schisme & trouble of the Church of Rome, yet when himselfe was advanced to the Popedome, he followed the footsteps of his Predecessors, governing all thinges tumultuously, & making the schisme worse: so among our Opposites, not a few have been over∣come with ease, pleasure, riches, favour, preeminence, &c. to like well of the Ceremonies, which never had their first love; When they had both spoken and disputed against them; What drew them over∣stayes to contend for them, except (I say not the seeking of (lest I be thought uncharitable) but) their beeing sought by some worldly benefite? And how could such a one excuse himselfe, but by Paris his Apology, Ingentibiis ardent, judicium domis sollicitare meum. And what marvell that x Balaks promotion, and Sauls y fields and vineyards, prevaile with such as z love this present world.

The Popish oyle and Chrisme were defended by Islebius and Sido∣nius, a ut ipsi nimirum discederent unctiores. How like to them have we knowen many Formalists? The best respect which b B. Lindsey na∣meth for kneeling at the Communion, is, the eshewing the Prince his offence; But as for us, let it be told who hath ever of a Conformist become a Non-conformist, for any worldly benefire which he might exspect by his non-confirmity? What worldly respect have we to move us to refuse the Ceremonies? What wealth? What preferment? What ease? What pleasure? What favour? Doe we not expose our selves to the hazard of all these things? Only our consciences suffer us not to consent to such things as we see to be unlawfull and hurtfull for the Church.

2. Let it be considered, which side exceeds in contending, they [Sect. III]

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are in the fault, 1 Tim. 6. 4. Now our Opposites doe farre overmatch us and overstride us in contention. For, 1. They harbour a invete∣rate dislike of every course and custome which we like well off; and they carpe at many deeds, words, writings, opinions, fashions, &c. in us, which they let passe in others of their owne minde. Whereas we (God knowes) are glad to allowe in them, any thing which wee allow in others, and are so farre from nitimur in vetitum semper cupi∣musque negata, that most heartily we condescend to apply our selves by all possible meanes to observe them, please them, and entertaine peace with them, who impose and urge upon us, a unconscionable observation of certaine Ceremonies, and to doe as much for them as any ground of conscience or reason can warrant. a So farre as we have attained, we walke by the same rule with them, and so ex∣ceed not in the measure. 2. It may be seen, that they exceed in con∣tending with us, if we be compaired with the Papists: against them they contend more remissely, against us more intensively. b Saravia professeth, that he thinketh worse of us, then of Papists. He hath rea∣son c who complaineth of Formalists their desire not to sturre and contend against the Papists, and their fiercenesse against their owne bretheren. This (saith he) is ill provided for, and can have no excuse; that some not to contend with Papists should contend with their bretheren, and displease the sonnes of their owne mother, to please the enimies of their Father, and beate not the dogge before the Lyon, but the Lyon for favour of the dogge, and make the natu∣rall childe to weepe, while the sonne of the bondwoman doeth triumph. 3. That they exceed, appeareth from the effects of their contending: hurt & dam∣nage is a maine effect of contention. Calvine, Perkines, & Pareus observe upon Gal. 5. 15. that contentions breed hurtfull & pernitious effects, which tend to consumption and destruction. Now wherein doe we injure or harme our Opposites, in their persons, callings, places, &c? yet in all these and many other things doe they wrong us, by de∣famation, deprivation, spoliation, incarceration, &c. How much better were it, to remove the Babylonian baggage of Antichristian Ceremonies, which are the mischievous meanes, both of the strife and of all the evill which ariseth out of it? Put away the Ceremo∣nies, cast out this Ionus, and beholde, the storme will cease. A wise Pilot, will in a urgent storme, cast out even some pretious wares; that the rest may be safe. And shall vve then saith d Park•…•…, cast out the Pilots of the ship themselves, and all to spare the wa•…•… of Ro•…•… which are no lavv∣full trafficque?

3. Let the matter be looked to, for which each side contendeth; [Sect. IV] Bretheren saith the e Archb. of Sainctandrews, to contend is not a fault, if so it be for a weighty matter, but to be contentious in a light busines this is faultie. Now I wish it may please him to understand, that when we contend about the removall of the Ceremonies, we contend for a very waighty matter, for we prove the removall of them, to bee neces∣sary

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in respect of their inconveniency, and unlawfullnesse. They who urge the Ceremonies, contend for things which are not neces∣sary, and we who refuse them, contend for things which are most necessary, even for the Doctrine and Discipline warranted by Gods Word, against all corruptions of Idolatrie and Superstition. That the Ceremonies can neither be purged of Superstition nor Idolatry, I have proved in the 3. part of this Dispute.

4. If the manner of contending be observed, our Opposites will [Sect. V] be found reproveable; not we: we contend by the grounds of truth and reason: but they use to answer all objections, and resolve all questions, by the sentence of Superiours, and the will of the Law, we contend from Gods Word and good reason, they from mans will and no reason. This was clearely seene at the first conclusion of the five Articles at Perth Assembly.

B. Lindsey him selfe relating the proceedings of the same, f tels us, that Mr. Iohn C•…•…icholl and Mr. William Sco•…•…e alledged, that if any would prese to abolish the order which had been long keeped in this Church, and draw in things not receaved yet, they should be holden to prove, either that the things urged, were necessary and expedient for our Church, or the order hitherto kept, not meet to be retained. This was denied, upon this ground; that is was the Prince (who by himselfe had power to reforme such things as were amisse in the out∣ward policy of the Church) that required to have the change made: Well, since they must needs take the opponents part, they desired this question to be reasoned: 〈◊〉〈◊〉 〈◊〉〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉〈◊〉 at the Communion were the fitter gesture? This also was refused, and the question was propounded thus. His Majestydesires our gesture of sitting at the Communion to be changed into kneeling: why ought not the s•…•…me to be do•…•…? At lentgh when Mr. Iohn Carmichall brought an Argument from the custome and practise of the Church of Scotland, g it was answered that albeit the Argument held good against the motions of private men, yet his Majesty requiring the practise to be changed▪ matters behoved to admit a new consi∣deration, and that because it was the Prince his priviledge, &c.

I must say, the B. was not well advised to insert this passage, which (if there were no more) lets the world see, that free reasoning was denied. For his Majesties Auctority, did both exeeme the af∣firmers from the paines of probation, (contrary to the lawes of dis∣putation) and state the question, and also answeare Arguments.

And moreover, when the Articles were put in voting, the Arch∣bishop in calling on the names did inculcate these and the like words: have the King in your minde: 〈◊〉〈◊〉 on the King: looke to the King. This, B. Lindsey passeth over in deepe silence, though it be challenged by his Antagonist. h Plinius proveth, that animalia infecta doe sometimes sleepe, because sometimes when light is holden neere them, yet they

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sturre not. And may not we conclude, that the B. was sleeping, when tho both in this, and diverse other places, such convincing light was holden out before him, yet hath he said nothing nor stur∣red himselfe at all for the matter? Yet further, we finde that B. Spots∣wood in his Sermon at that pretended Assembly, answeareth all such as can not yeeld to the Ceremonies with the peace of their conscien∣ces; That without any more adoe, they may not controule publike judgement, but must alwayes esteeme that to be best and most seem∣ly, which seemeth so in the eye of publike auctority; That even such Rites and orders as are not rightly established; must be obeyed so long as they have the force of a constitution; That the sentence of Superiours ought to direct us and be a sufficient ground to our con∣science for obeying. This is the best of their reasoning, and before all faile. i The B. of Winchester reasoneth from bare custome. Have we not cause to renew the complaint which k Ioh. Lascus made in behalfe of the Protestants in Germanie: nulla cognitione causa per colloquium aut a•…•…icam suffragiorum collationem habita, sed prajudicio tantum ipsorum sen∣tentiam damnari.

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